real unbalance'd

[Alezi]

Greater Dragons just simply do too much damage. 70 phys 70 fire they deal 70 dmg melee hit + bleed, throw a couple of spells before a nice 60dmg firebreath. With bad RNG on your side you might get killed pretty much instantly by melee hit + bleed + flamestrike + breath. That's 130-150 damage in just a couple of seconds WITHOUT the tamer casting a spell, shooting with archery or doing a melee hit. Once the gdrag/dread warhorse has initiated casting Firebreath there's no stopping it - no LoS check, no range check. It just goes through the walls, 10 screens away etc.

Can someone name me a non-tamer template which can deal 100+ dmg in less than 5 seconds? Besides, Dread War Horses are bugged anyway, they sometimes cast spells even though they are dead. A tamer on Drachenfels got zapped along with his black horsey and after 30sec of being dead it casted a fireball.

Working as intended?

 

[Llewen]

Greater Dragons just simply do too much damage. 70 phys 70 fire they deal 70 dmg melee hit + bleed, throw a couple of spells before a nice 60dmg firebreath. With bad RNG on your side you might get killed pretty much instantly by melee hit + bleed + flamestrike + breath. That's 130-150 damage in just a couple of seconds WITHOUT the tamer casting a spell, shooting with archery or doing a melee hit.

Ever since greater dragons were introduced they have provided a nice big fat juicy target for players that hate tamers. FYI there are combinations of pets that kill far faster than a greater dragon. Yes, greater dragons are tough, but they are slow, and any tamer using a greater dragon is on foot. If you can't figure out a way to effectively fight a tamer with a greater dragon, the problem isn't with tamers.

I had a discussion over a year ago with someone who thought that greater dragons were "easy mode" for pvp. We took it to TC. I played a dexxer, he got himself a greater dragon. I wasn't even used to playing a dexxer at that time, and he was the one that lost. He told me he got bored because the fight took too long, so he stopped paying attention, but for some reason he never took up my offer for a rematch.

Once the gdrag/dread warhorse has initiated casting Firebreath there's no stopping it - no LoS check, no range check. It just goes through the walls, 10 screens away etc.

Now this I can agree with. There ought to be line of site rules for fire breath that apply for the duration of the attack, ie. you ought to be able to duck behind a building, or a rock pile, and dodge the attack. But that is the same problem that exists with archery. You can run an awful long way with an arrow following you around corners and between trees as well.

 

[Nexus]

Now I'm not going to say Nerf Tamers or Nerf Greater Dragons/Dread Mares/Cu Sidhe. But I do agree they create imbalance in PvP.

I'm all for capping their damage in PvP though, I just don't want them tinkered with in PvM.

 

[Vyal]

Yah cause you can kill anything in tram with greaters not really much of a risk, mage necro tamer with a good mage wep in vamp with a greater can kill any peerless but proxy.

But tram isn't the problem, and to the guy who keeps saying no no no don't nerf dragons learn to deal with it it's like every other temp. I got to say your blind it isn't like every other temp it completly takes balance out of UO.

One day you will see you shards pvp scene will end up like mine where everyone is on a dismount tamer. When it gets to that point it isn't pvp its non tamers running from dismount tamer death squads that have cross healers.

You say kill the dragon? So ten people take about a half a min or less to kill a dragon meanwhile the other 5 tamers are dismounting and killing everyone with cross healers and the guy that got his dragon attacked it already ten screens off out of llama form calling his dragon vet it up then hes back in the fight by that time your whole squad is dead.

There really isn't even a argument here the fact is dreads and dragons should not be in uo pvp they ruin it and take away so much fun of real field fights and tactics and give it all to the guy whos dragon gets the kill.

I already know the only people saying dragons and dreads are good is people who have not played very long or spend 90% of their time in tram. Fel is for fighting player versus player not player versus monster death squads that can instant kill you 70% of the time :/

 

[Wilde1]

I dunno about the content of the post, but "the count" pointing at em, thats classic.

"Vun, Two, Tree, Four, ha ha ha"

 

[onthefifty]

I dunno about the content of the post, but "the count" pointing at em, thats classic.

"Vun, Two, Tree, Four, ha ha ha"

agreed, i nearly spit my coffee all over

 

[Llewen]

I dunno about the content of the post, but "the count" pointing at em, thats classic.

"Vun, Two, Tree, Four, ha ha ha"

agreed, i nearly spit my coffee all over

Correct me if I am wrong, two of his "tamers" are riding faction warhorses. They aren't limited to tamers are they? I also always thought they were more of a prestige mount than being actually useful. I'm looking at their stats and they look like a weak nightmare with no magery. That doesn't look terribly frightening to me.

That looks to me like more of the typical misinformation that is spread about tamers. And speaking of misinformation, while the following may not be strictly untrue, it is still misleading:

Yah cause you can kill anything in tram with greaters not really much of a risk, mage necro tamer with a good mage wep in vamp with a greater can kill any peerless but proxy.

The last I knew there were several other templates that don't include taming that can solo all of the peerless, including "proxy", faster and easier. Tamers are a very strong mid to low level template, but when it comes to the truly high end content, there are many other templates that are much stronger, and more effective. And as I predicted, this isn't really just about removing tamers from pvp is it?

 

[Viper09]

You call yourself a pvp'r? If you intend to pvp, you should always have a trapped box. In fact, I'll go one better, if you go to Felucca, you should always carry a trapped box.

I always try to have a trapped box on me all the time. But you know what? That still doesn't change the fact that not everyone has one on them all the time, even your "pvp'rs". I run into people who don't have trapped boxes all the time.

 

[Llewen]

You call yourself a pvp'r? If you intend to pvp, you should always have a trapped box. In fact, I'll go one better, if you go to Felucca, you should always carry a trapped box.

I always try to have a trapped box on me all the time. But you know what? That still doesn't change the fact that not everyone has one on them all the time, even your "pvp'rs". I run into people who don't have trapped boxes all the time.

Well, they are really easy to get. If you don't have one, I'm afraid it's your problem. Hopefully after a few hard knocks on the head, you'll learn. And don't take this as a defence of trapped boxes. It's a bit of an exploit if you ask me, but it's an accepted one, and maybe prevents paralyse from being overpowered.

 

[Nexus]

Yah cause you can kill anything in tram with greaters not really much of a risk, mage necro tamer with a good mage wep in vamp with a greater can kill any peerless but proxy.

But tram isn't the problem, and to the guy who keeps saying no no no don't nerf dragons learn to deal with it it's like every other temp. I got to say your blind it isn't like every other temp it completly takes balance out of UO.

One day you will see you shards pvp scene will end up like mine where everyone is on a dismount tamer. When it gets to that point it isn't pvp its non tamers running from dismount tamer death squads that have cross healers.

You say kill the dragon? So ten people take about a half a min or less to kill a dragon meanwhile the other 5 tamers are dismounting and killing everyone with cross healers and the guy that got his dragon attacked it already ten screens off out of llama form calling his dragon vet it up then hes back in the fight by that time your whole squad is dead.

There really isn't even a argument here the fact is dreads and dragons should not be in uo pvp they ruin it and take away so much fun of real field fights and tactics and give it all to the guy whos dragon gets the kill.

I already know the only people saying dragons and dreads are good is people who have not played very long or spend 90% of their time in tram. Fel is for fighting player versus player not player versus monster death squads that can instant kill you 70% of the time :/

I actually refuse to use Great Dragons, and for the most part Cu Sidhe in PvM. I think they are the lazy players way out. But like I said I'm all for Capping their damage in PvP just leave my pets alone in PvM.

 

[Amren]

Well it's always been this way.

Tamers dominated pretty early on and still do for the most part. Thing is , taming is no ware near as hard to train up as people say it is.

 

[Vyal]

I trained my first tamer to 85 in 9 hours, then used jewels to get my dragon thats how easy it is to say all kill.

All I want is no more dragons in PvP it's stupid.
It would be like playing Left 4 Dead but the horde would be tanks and not just infected. You stand no chance at winning at all and would die and never get to the end.

No game developer is stupid enough to make a game that can't be won. Yet in PvP here we got unbeatable dragon dread armys.

I know it's pretty lame to compare the two games but no one would play left 4 dead if the horde was tanks.
Just like no one is going to pvp in uo on non tamers if everyone else is tamers.

 

[Llewen]

I trained my first tamer to 85 in 9 hours, then used jewels to get my dragon thats how easy it is to say all kill.

"all kill" doesn't mean you've won the fight. I still say, if you can't beat a tamer with a greater dragon one on one, the problem isn't the dragon. If I get back in game, I'll meet you on TC. I'll make myself a dexxer, and you can make yourself a tamer and go get a greater dragon, we'll go for a best out of five if you like.

 

[Vyal]

Ok you go on tc1 make a dexxer the best temp you can ever think of with the most godly items you can ever make and i'm going to come on with 5 dismount tamers and we will see how long you live ok

Anyone know a shard that isn't infested with dismount tamers that has real pvp on it?

 

[Llewen]

Ok you go on tc1 make a dexxer the best temp you can ever think of with the most godly items you can ever make and i'm going to come on with 5 dismount tamers and we will see how long you live ok

Anyone know a shard that isn't infested with dismount tamers that has real pvp on it?

So you are complaining that you can't survive a five on one gank? You put me up against five of any advanced template, and I will probably die pretty damned quickly, if I don't manage to run away first. And I'll tell you a little secret, I'd rather be facing a five on one with tamers with dragons than just about any other template, because I will have a much better chance of getting away.

My offer was for a one on one. You take a greater dragon, I'll take a dexxer, and we'll do a best five out of five.

 

[Taylor]

Ok you go on tc1 make a dexxer the best temp you can ever think of with the most godly items you can ever make and i'm going to come on with 5 dismount tamers and we will see how long you live ok

Anyone know a shard that isn't infested with dismount tamers that has real pvp on it?

As I mentioned above, dismount tamers are far from the norm on Atlantic. Lotta necro/mages, lotta ninja/archers, some dexxers, a few dismount/tamers or bush/tamers, and rarely, a tamer with a greater.

Typically, if someone shows up with a greater, reds gank them quick; blues rarely step in to help a tamer with a greater. Tamers with greaters are walking targets.

 

[Vyal]

What is up with UO and dragons?
Brit was like a flash back of the dragon gank squads, can't we sue UO?
Didn't someone sue them and win over the old bounty system?
Dragons are pretty pagan if ask me....

 

[Clog|Mordain]

The animal form GD tamers are quite simple to defeat in a team fight.

The best tactic we came up with on oceania was to Mana Vamp the tamer as soon as he came out of stealth. Yes one of our team members would be on foot with a dragon on him, but this is easily fixed. Invis works wonders. Now with the tamer with no mana he cannot go into animal form, thus leaving him there running around foot. Dedicate one member to keep spaming mana vamp on him and in about 3-4 seconds the tamer will be dead and in statloss.

The main GD tamer on oceania knew we had a good tactic against him that basically rendered him useless nearly every single time he shown his face. Actually he quit after this for around 6 months.

It took us a few attempts to get it right. But it works.

 

[Vyal]

Well you got dismount tamer archers, you got dread mare tamers that are alot worse.

These guys come at you with 5 people on prep'd dreads.
Heck even one guy on a prep'd dread with a fox as a archer all they got to do is dimount you and you pretty much just die. Like instant death . . . .

Listen fighting one tamer is not a problem, all you got to do is mortal one and stick pixies on them and they die for people with dragons the dreads you just kill em and put pixies on em ai ai mortal dead...

 

[Tjalle]

Last I checked ninja animal forms use a control slot, so you can't use a greater dragon if you intend to use ninja animal forms.

Nope, animal form does not use a control slot... and it shouldn´t either.

 

[Uriah Heep]

nm, it ain't worth the effort to type it...
carry on

 

[Taylor]

These guys come at you with 5 people on prep'd dreads . . . .

Listen fighting one tamer is not a problem . . . .

I have seen alot of unbalanced gameplay in UO but tamers are the worst . . .

Hmm... So, I sympathize with your complaint about tamers being unbalanced, but I'm not sure your postulates add to the right conclusion. Seems like you're saying:

1) Five dismount tamers can kill me.
2) Therefore, taming is unbalanced.

Ok, that kinda makes sense, but then you go on to say:

3) It's easy to kill a tamer one-on-one.

This doesn't fit well with the overall conclusion - namely, that taming is unbalanced. If this were a valid argument, I could argue this:

1) It's easy to kill a dexxer one-on-one.
2) Five dexxers can kill me.
3) Therefore, dexxers are unbalanced.

Maybe what you mean to say is that, while taming - generally speaking - is not unbalanced (read: since they're easy to kill one-on-one), fighting five tamers at once is an unbalanced fight. I can buy that. Fighting five necro/mages at once is an unbalanced fight.

Is this what you mean?

 

[ElRay]

All I want is no more dragons in PvP it's stupid.
It would be like playing Left 4 Dead but the horde would be tanks and not just infected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKu60YKqsvs&feature=related

Pills here.

 

[Deathy56]

I'm a tamer and use my GD extensively in fel. Here are my thoughts from that point of view and my experience PvP

-A good dexxer should be able to kill a tamer one-on-one (no question about it)
-The fire breath thing (insta-kill and from a screen away) needs to be fixed
-Those people who say pets should become un-bonded in fel...you clearly have no clue how long it takes to find a really good pet and then train it up. It would be like making all your stuff un-insured when you go to fel. If that's how you think it should be, there is a lovely place called Seige that is beckoning you.
-A group of tamers are lethal, but so is an organized group of dexxers.

For those complaining about balancing issues...it all boils down to strategy vs. power. Tamers have more power than any other type. Pets can out gun any player toe to toe. However, controlling the pets in a coordinated way is greatly more difficult than dexxers controlling themselves. No stragety for a group and the tamers will win. Good stragety and the dexxers should win....once the insta-kill fire breath goes away.

Just my opinion

 

[G.v.P]

i personally see no difference in any of it.
its fel.
you live or you die.
if you die, do something different.

...

 

[mbraud4]

Guys dont let this Tool fool you. He plays a small shard, when I xfered there a few weeks ago he played a superdragon archer, a poor pathetic sad no skilled one at that...but one regardless. He would sit in his house and only send his pet out to attack someone in range, then call it back and repeat. He has found out that this doesnt work on normal pvpers, so he then attempted to go outside only to be annihilated with the rest of his "zerg" guild. Now he cried about tamer templates, claims he deleted his tamer temp b/c of this all, yet you still see him log onto it and die the same old way. Dont spend you time listening to this tool, its obvious he is delusional.

 

[Goodmann]

I think it's time to address the all kill skill for pvp. Unbonded pets would bring some balance to the all kill tamer archers running arund on a dreadmare with a mare, dismount all kill running shot.

 

[Splup]

Bah... Like GD:s and firebreath were the only problem. Have you guys tried fighting against bake kitsune tamer?

2 bake kitsunes (pack instinct), taking 4 slots so the tamer is still on mount. Kitsunes dump spells like hell and do that rage thing, making it impossible for mage to cast anything without protection. Also you need only like 90/90 taming/lore to control em.

Beetle and mare? Luckily atleast those can be pretty easily killed. Bake kitsunes are tought bastards with lowest resist being 60 at best.

Dread mares are also a big pain in the ass. Dreadmare archers do instakills with with it.

The fact is pets are just too damn powerfull. Their spellcasting range and speed should be same as Players have. Their spells should be disturtable. I would also like to see powerwords or something to know what kinda spells the pet is casting. And their damage should be nerded... I mean wtf a hiruy hitting you over 60 damage to 70 resist? Yeah dunno if it's the doublestrike or armor lower thingy and I don't care what it is, is just too much damage.

 

[Clog|Mordain]

I would like to see the insta stable when log thing changed. perhaps make it so they disappear when your character actually times out.

 

[Alezi]

I'm a tamer and use my GD extensively in fel. Here are my thoughts from that point of view and my experience PvP

-A good dexxer should be able to kill a tamer one-on-one (no question about it)
-The fire breath thing (insta-kill and from a screen away) needs to be fixed
-Those people who say pets should become un-bonded in fel...you clearly have no clue how long it takes to find a really good pet and then train it up. It would be like making all your stuff un-insured when you go to fel. If that's how you think it should be, there is a lovely place called Seige that is beckoning you.
-A group of tamers are lethal, but so is an organized group of dexxers.

For those complaining about balancing issues...it all boils down to strategy vs. power. Tamers have more power than any other type. Pets can out gun any player toe to toe. However, controlling the pets in a coordinated way is greatly more difficult than dexxers controlling themselves. No stragety for a group and the tamers will win. Good stragety and the dexxers should win....once the insta-kill fire breath goes away.

Just my opinion

Uh, made a tamer with advanced character token yesterday and later in the evening I tamed a greater which got 4.1/5.0 on pet power calc.. So yeah, really hard to tame a good pet.

 

[Vyal]

Once again back to the point, EVERYONE is tamers and you can't get any real pvp fights in because the tamers are always there.

Back in the day you never had pvp fights with dragons and dreads players had to have real skill in fel to be good now you just need a dismount tamer :/

 

[Splup]

State of PvP is just ridiculous cause of tamers... Been waiting for the petnerf pretty long but no.

"Trainining taming is so hard" "Getting good pets is so hard" yea right.

Go buy advanced character token and add librarytally, and you have a kitsunetamer.

I have 2 tamers, PvM discotamer and PvP tamer. And I'm dead serious saying that in PvP these need a nerf.

 

[Uvtha]

Make a discord/peace character, or fight back with a tamer. What can I say. No one tries to be clever when fighting tamers in fel.

That the only solutions to the pvp being nearly "pets only" is to either become a tamer, or make a template that is useless in pvp other than to stop tamers, is a CLEAR indicator that taming is wayyyyy over balanced.

 

[Myna]

lol, when pvper whine about other pvper

why dont you use the same template you are whining about?

reds killing crafters/pvmer ... is that balanced? do crafter/pvmer come here and whine about that their template canot compete against a reds template?

if you canot deal with a better template than yours stay out of fel and stop to whine

 

[Vyal]

But a crafter isn't a pvper, when a dexxor who has been at the game for YEARS dies instantly in a fight to a tamer who has only played for a month something is wrong.

 

[Widow Maker]

Bah..bunch of hogwash. Didn't even read the entire thread. Want the "tamer issue" fixed? Correct the following:

Factions and non-factions:

30% stat loss EACH time you are killed. Same with any of your pets. This includes an extra 30% each time if you come back in stat to fight.
- relieves the issue of tamer coming right back in stat and still able to control pets with jewels. Pet.s abilities are severely curtailed. Actually, relieves that coming back in stat for all templates.

Pets can not be "logged" out or recalled with a pet ball if in heat of battle, as it pertains to PvP.
- Should have been done years ago...idiots!!

Aggressor attack from a house (or criminal flag) and you are booted from the house.
-Stops all weak ass house fighting, especially with pets

Cease all alliances between Factions and non-factions
- Should have been done years ago...idiots!!

Pets only able to cast according to their magery level
- Duh!!


Implement these changes, as they should have been done years ago, and you will start to see an affect VERY quickly. Screw the Caps and all that crap. Kill someone's pet down to being able to barely cast magic arrow and tamers aren'ty so bad..??

 

[Tom_Builder]

Well in this picture I see some tamers inside the house, and some tamers outside the house. Which one are you? Inside or out? Seems fairly even to me.

Tom

 

[uoBuoY]

Bah...2 bake kitsunes (pack instinct), taking 4 slots so the tamer is still on mount...

Kits do not have pack instinct