New PVP angle

[Doubleplay]

I keep reading all the posts re pvp vs non-pvp areas and it gets boring. It's the same old argument over and over. I got to thinking what would make me play pvp again.

I think that if I went into a pvp area to pvm, mine, fish, lumberjack or other activity and got killed, it is the immediate after killing activities that turned me off. The cat-calling, the res killing, the whole ghost thing, running to get a res and getting back to the body... I could go on and on, but the point is what if?

What if when you get killed, you auto resurrected back on the safe side of the moongate with all your stuff? Perhaps with the exception of unique fel items such as scrolls, but basically all the ingots, your pet, your lumber, jewels and such?

I mean really, most people who kill you are not really interested in this stuff. They are mostly interested in ownership over you. Insurance has already taken away the looting aspect. All that is left is ownership of an area, of your feelings, and ownership of unique loot such as scrolls. With the autores to the safe side of the moongate, the killer would still get area ownership, superiority over you (you are greatly inconvienced), and your scrolls. The saved player would avoid the aggravation of having to listen to all the bragging, cat-calling, and etc. He would escape with some supplies, and would probably give it another try to see if he could get even more stuff before getting killed. It would be a challenge for both players.

I think such a scenario would draw many people into pvp areas who do not want to pvp, but want the challenge of a little danger for a little reward. The people who want to dominate will get more people to pk. Both activities would not interfere with the pvp crowd who would continue to compete among themselves for domination of area, or bragging rights. Perhaps a gump when you die that lets you choose an auto-res on the safe side of the moongate vs normal res opportunities as now exist would be the tool that would get more people to fel.

 

[Gellor]

Finding a rez isn't too difficult. Worse case, wait 4 minutes or so and rez in town after help stucking to a town

Getting rez killed beyond the first time is the ghost's fault and nobody elses. That is like pounding your head on the wall and saying "Damn this hurts" but you keep doing it.

Items, you've got all your regular suit items insured. Most resource killing people take everything.

Trash talking happens. If it is too vulgar, ask them to stop. If it doesn't, use that nice button on the side to page for verbal harassment.

So in general, I'd say: poopoo on your attempt to Tram up Fel any more

 

[WarUltima]

I think this is a great idea. Even some of the most carebear games (WoW) have some pvp quests even on a pve server.

You are not required to enter the area unless you want something out of it (like wow unless you want the experience and the quest rewards you dont have to do it).

It's not like you cannot finish your character unless to go to pvp zone anyways. Just stay from those pvp entrances with a big sigh tell you you might get killed by other players (oh noes). All.you lose is a tiny amout of gold anyways. Put anyone that you dont like on ignore, problem solved.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Getting rez killed beyond the first time is the ghost's fault and nobody elses. That is like pounding your head on the wall and saying "Damn this hurts" but you keep doing it.

Hopefully most people know that brick walls don't follow people around trying to hit them on the head.

The comparison between PKs and brick walls does have other merits, however.

It's not like you cannot finish your character unless to go to pvp zone anyways

.

No. But, in UO at least, you can't finish your character unless you either enter a PvP zone or deal with people who have. Been this way for 43 Publishes.

-Galen's player

 

[WarUltima]

No. But, in UO at least, you can't finish your character unless you either enter a PvP zone or deal with people who have. Been this way for 43 Publishes.

-Galen's player

So what do you use GOLD for?
I have never bothered going down to Doom gaunlets yet why do I have a ornament and hat of the magi on my mage?

Why I have never gotta any hair dyes from Lady Mel yet my hair is dyed glacial color?

I use gold to obtain items I dont normally get from my own playstyle ever since the second they invented Trammel. Been this way for 43 publishes (or is it longer?).

 

[Beer_Cayse]

>poink< BULLSEYE!

my point as well.

 

[Gellor]

Hopefully most people know that brick walls don't follow people around trying to hit them on the head.

And hopefully people are smart enough to NOT rez where someone is sitting killing people.

"Hmm... I just saw a guy get killed after rezzing at this healer... I think it might be a good idea for me to rez too"

If the above statement is something a player makes, he should take up something like finger painting... obviously lacking in the smarts department.

Hmm... maybe instead of getting rez killed at the same healer or shrine a player might try rezzing in town OR even *GASP* use the moon gate to head to Tram for a kill free rez zone.

The comparison between PKs and brick walls does have other merits, however.

Better comparison would be brick wall and trammies... from what I've seen in posts lately, about the same intelligence.

 

[Doubleplay]

Of course you can easily find a rez. But this is not the point. Many trammies do not want to go back to where they were killed and endure the harassment to loot their body on the off chance that their packie and resources are still there. Try to understand the mindset of the person who doesn't seek the conflict but is willing to chance it if it pays off for him. The payoff with the choice gump is the resources he is able to get before the slaughter takes place. People who do not want to fight a pk or do pvp are not afraid of dying, they just need some reward for it, without having to deal with the verbal harassment that often accompanies a kill.

 

[Ailish]

Doubleplay - I would like to point you to the part in your own post where you say

Try to understand the mindset of the person who doesn't seek the conflict but is willing to chance it if it pays off for him

Now, you are asking that that "chance" is removed. Because the chance isnt just that you will die - that can happen in Tram, too. The chance is that you can die AND lose your resources (oddly, that can happen in Tram, too). Your average resource gatherer can gather for HOURS before ever seeing another soul, so lets not pretend that they are actually losing more than a tiny fraction of what they have gained.

This post is basically asking that resources be insured. This is not an option in Tram, and it should not be an option in Fel.

You can avoid the verbal side by simply leaving the moment you are able to move after dying. Just ignore any words on the screen and walk away. Its easy. Drop of your goods often and you won't be losing more than 200 wood or an equally negligable amount of ingots.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

So what do you use GOLD for?
I have never bothered going down to Doom gaunlets yet why do I have a ornament and hat of the magi on my mage?

Why I have never gotta any hair dyes from Lady Mel yet my hair is dyed glacial color?

I use gold to obtain items I dont normally get from my own playstyle ever since the second they invented Trammel. Been this way for 43 publishes (or is it longer?).

Thanks for proving a point I often make.



You see, there was no value judgment in the statement of mine you quoted. It was a correct statement of fact, in response to a statement of fact that was not correct.

*chuckles*

Thanks though.

-Galen's player

 

[MorganaLeFey]

Doubleplay - I would like to point you to the part in your own post where you say



Now, you are asking that that "chance" is removed. Because the chance isnt just that you will die - that can happen in Tram, too. The chance is that you can die AND lose your resources (oddly, that can happen in Tram, too). Your average resource gatherer can gather for HOURS before ever seeing another soul, so lets not pretend that they are actually losing more than a tiny fraction of what they have gained.

This post is basically asking that resources be insured. This is not an option in Tram, and it should not be an option in Fel.

You can avoid the verbal side by simply leaving the moment you are able to move after dying. Just ignore any words on the screen and walk away. Its easy. Drop of your goods often and you won't be losing more than 200 wood or an equally negligable amount of ingots.

Yup, that's what I do.

 

[Doubleplay]

Yup, that's what I do.

Yep, that's what I do too. However there are so many.. a majority of players, I'm afraid, that don't do that. I just think we should encourage some creative thinking that tries real hard to understand their viewpoint and incorporate something that makes them want to enter pvp areas. Double resources was a start, but I don't think that idea went far enough to address their concerns.

Darn it, there must be a compromise that satisfies both parties. We have to accept that this game is not going to be 100% pvp or 100% "care bear".

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Yep, that's what I do too. However there are so many.. a majority of players, I'm afraid, that don't do that. I just think we should encourage some creative thinking that tries real hard to understand their viewpoint and incorporate something that makes them want to enter pvp areas. Double resources was a start, but I don't think that idea went far enough to address their concerns.

Darn it, there must be a compromise that satisfies both parties. We have to accept that this game is not going to be 100% pvp or 100% "care bear".

The thing you have to realize is that PvP is, sadly, a playstyle that is built in part upon diminishing other playstyles.

If you look at the boards, it's the Fellies who are by far the most aggressive about any issue they happen to get involved with. More vocal Trammies such as myself are VERY few and far between. VERY few and far between. And I'm nowhere near the level of my "opponents." (I hate using that term but sadly they have made it appropriate.)

I actually hate being this vocal...But I'm one of the few and certain views wouldn't get expressed if the vocal few weren't out there being vocal.

So in terms of "satisfying" both parties? With Trammies it'd be fairly easy. The current system pretty much does it. Most Trammies wouldn't object to there being new Fel-rules Champ Spawns in SA. I know I didn't in the focus group boards....But then I went and did something silly: I was open about my concern that the new Fel content was getting more dev time than was the new Tram content. And the Fellies lost it.

Don't focus on satisfying both sides like there's some kind of competition. There's only competition from one side of the aisle. And no, I'm afraid there's no compromise to be had there.

Sad, but long experience on these boards has taught me that it it's true.

-Galen's player

 

[Ailish]

Aw, Galen, we all still love you. It is good that there are a few vocal people on the Tram side of the fence.

I can appreciate Doubleplay trying to come up with a compromise, even if I don't necessarily agree. Sometimes it is very hard to see across the fence to the other side. I never consider PASSION to be a bad thing. Being rude, sure (and I will not pretend I am not guilty of that).

And you have to admit, that in the end, tho it seemed one way, the Tram content *has* gotten its fair share *please take that as the good natured rib it is, not a dig!*

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Aw, Galen, we all still love you. It is good that there are a few vocal people on the Tram side of the fence.

I can appreciate Doubleplay trying to come up with a compromise, even if I don't necessarily agree. Sometimes it is very hard to see across the fence to the other side. I never consider PASSION to be a bad thing. Being rude, sure (and I will not pretend I am not guilty of that).

And you have to admit, that in the end, tho it seemed one way, the Tram content *has* gotten its fair share *please take that as the good natured rib it is, not a dig!*

I walked out of the focus group after that altercation...I just didn't have the patience.....And I haven't tested or poked around with anything since. (I did log in once but just to look at one thing.)

I'll take your word though.



-Galen's player

 

[Coppelia]

I think the resurrection is only one part of the problem.

 

[KalVasTENKI]

I tried reading your post , but couldn't make it all the way through. No means of disrespect but my eyes hurt from reading so many damn Wikipedia articles in the past hour. So this may not even relate to your topic and if so I'm sorry. I think they shouldn't add anything to Fel , they should only subtract. Subtract what? Subtract guard zones. If you don't want to die by another player , simply do not goto Fel. They already added so many limitations to Fel , whats the point of taking something else away from the people who get the most of out it?

 

[KalVasTENKI]

I tried reading your post , but couldn't make it all the way through. No means of disrespect but my eyes hurt from reading so many damn Wikipedia articles in the past hour. So this may not even relate to your topic and if so I'm sorry. I think they shouldn't add anything to Fel , they should only subtract. Subtract what? Subtract guard zones. If you don't want to die by another player , simply do not goto Fel. They already added so many limitations to Fel , whats the point of taking something else away from the people who get the most of out it?

As far as the items on the idiots who mine/craft/and etc in Fel , I'm really interested in! I've made a good sum of money looting talismans , runic kits , and much much more. I get a good laugh watching the people call guards in Fel faction cities.. Hahaha.