SA Client had been Rock Solid but Luna Invasion

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Having Luna Invasion in the City undid the SA Client, for me, I must have crashed out a dozen times.

If I had to characterize it, I would characterize it as information over load, while the mouse button was held down to move.

In short, the only time it happened was when I was moving, tons of items, vendors, people, pets, spells, ghosts, mobs, other people running, people collecting things off their corpses etc.

While I am not really wanting to ... criticize anyone for choosing a City Like Luna (houses, items and vendors), that is really a NOT interesting choice as far as the SA client goes. Trying to pull out anything with ctrl+shift just plain simple over taxes the .... what ever, were you place the cursor on the label and try to drag a health bar or something click able.

Not only could I not do that but fully 90% of the handles I could not get rid of by right clicking. Heck No, I just moved around as if the system was saying label? What Label, your telling me to move.

Sincerely Irritated,

Enigma Maitreya

 

[Heartseeker]

Having Luna Invasion in the City undid the SA Client, for me, I must have crashed out a dozen times.

If I had to characterize it, I would characterize it as information over load, while the mouse button was held down to move.

In short, the only time it happened was when I was moving, tons of items, vendors, people, pets, spells, ghosts, mobs, other people running, people collecting things off their corpses etc.

While I am not really wanting to ... criticize anyone for choosing a City Like Luna (houses, items and vendors), that is really a NOT interesting choice as far as the SA client goes. Trying to pull out anything with ctrl+shift just plain simple over taxes the .... what ever, were you place the cursor on the label and try to drag a health bar or something click able.

Not only could I not do that but fully 90% of the handles I could not get rid of by right clicking. Heck No, I just moved around as if the system was saying label? What Label, your telling me to move.

Sincerely Irritated,

Enigma Maitreya

SA Client runs worse than KR for me in Luna.

It is a lagfest.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

SA Client runs worse than KR for me in Luna.

It is a lagfest.

*Shrug* I have never laged nor was I laging.

At times I think the SA client enumerates far more things as Object Handles/Labels than either 2D or KR.

As one point tonight in one place were there had been a large battle of the Nightmares and the Wyrms, when we cleared things out and I did the ctrl+shift the screen (1680x1050) was solid (as in nothing but) Object Handles/Lables, mostly 3 to 5 layers deep. I could not get any thing to close (well maybe a dozen).

I accept this is a scenario specific issue but ......

 

[Petra Fyde]

you can set it to show less handles? I have mine set to 50, I think the default is 200

 

[Fink]

you can set it to show less handles? I have mine set to 50, I think the default is 200

This might sound a wee bit superstitious..

I just set my handles limit down to 50 and I'm experiencing less movement-lag. It makes no sense as handles aren't shown until you hit the keys, but I'm running about on the lower setting and experiencing less lag. I put it back up to max setting and I begin to lag more. Strange!

 

[Petra Fyde]

knowing how 'challenged' my poor old pc is my first action is to adjust all available options to their lowest setting. Piggy bank not yet full enough for a new pc, UK prices are a bit on the extortionate side.

 

[pgcd]

This might sound a wee bit superstitious..

I just set my handles limit down to 50 and I'm experiencing less movement-lag. It makes no sense as handles aren't shown until you hit the keys, but I'm running about on the lower setting and experiencing less lag. I put it back up to max setting and I begin to lag more. Strange!

I suppose the handles, while not actually displayed, are somehow tracked by the client continuously, since there is no noticeable dealy when you press ctrl-shift. So yeah, reducing them might help with lag simply because the client tracks less data for the objects.
As for the default "dynamic objects" setting for handles, it's pretty much unusable anywhere but the countryside, since all houses are built from dynamic objects - using it in Luna is dreadful pretty much every time, I won't even think about an invasion...

 

[Old Man of UO]

If you haven't defragged your computer since the last patch, you really should... it makes a difference in the lag due to all the dynamic objects and stability. In fact, you should do this as a habit after every patch... they are huge!

 

[Fink]

..since there is no noticeable delay when you press ctrl-shift.

..what?!

Not quite like that for me but I do see your point. I always run with Corpses only in any case. I figure that's the only one I'll want in an emergency, but then I'm looking at the corpse-opening macro mentioned elsewhere and thinking maybe I don't need it at all. Generally corpses are fewer in number than the amount of dynamic objects around my Luna house, so when I hit my ctrl-shift macros I'm not smacked in the face by a thousand tags.

Is there any way to change the keystroke for object handles? I really hate hard-wired key configs.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

..since there is no noticeable delay when you press ctrl-shift.

..what?!

Not quite like that for me but I do see your point. I always run with Corpses only in any case. I figure that's the only one I'll want in an emergency, but then I'm looking at the corpse-opening macro mentioned elsewhere and thinking maybe I don't need it at all. Generally corpses are fewer in number than the amount of dynamic objects around my Luna house, so when I hit my ctrl-shift macros I'm not smacked in the face by a thousand tags.

Is there any way to change the keystroke for object handles? I really hate hard-wired key configs.

Originally and I have no reason to believe they can change this is the Server/Client always enumerate everything within a system defined range, including the contents of houses. As far as I can tell, the change in terms of the House contents was a cosmetic thing and not a change to the server/client enumerating the objects.

So the only addition effort the ctrl+shift should be making on the system is the creation and placement of the gumps/windows.

 

[Gildar]

Originally and I have no reason to believe they can change this is the Server/Client always enumerate everything within a system defined range, including the contents of houses. As far as I can tell, the change in terms of the House contents was a cosmetic thing and not a change to the server/client enumerating the objects.

So the only addition effort the ctrl+shift should be making on the system is the creation and placement of the gumps/windows.

The client needs to fetch object names when you hit ctrl-shift - that information isn't obtained until it is needed (and even then, some activities that cause the name to show [not sure if object handles fall into this or not] force a re-fetch to make sure it is still accurate).

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

The client needs to fetch object names when you hit ctrl-shift - .... force a re-fetch to make sure it is still accurate).

That is most certainly valid and I stand corrected.

Can you tell if this is a back to the server vs purely Client side (as in a cache)? I noticed many cases of a handle ending up being ??? I more or less assume the referenced handle is no longer considered valid (as in can noi longer be resolved to a displayable text string) by the Client, yet is still being displayed.

In addition, Petra suggested turning down the number of handles. This may or may not be a good idea. Is there any way to ... lack of better word .... Prioritize the relevance of the handles?

At one point it was not possible to actually get my Corpse to open as .... well what ever was going on had it dead to rights. I was not getting the "Your to far away". Yet I could not dbl click it, I could not right click it, I could not drag it off some where.

Not the least of ..... The Dead Mob's Corpse often fell into that category.

 

[Gildar]

That is most certainly valid and I stand corrected.

Can you tell if this is a back to the server vs purely Client side (as in a cache)? I noticed many cases of a handle ending up being ??? I more or less assume the referenced handle is no longer considered valid (as in can noi longer be resolved to a displayable text string) by the Client, yet is still being displayed.

I think that it might be a combination of the two for object handles (a "if I have a name, don't go back to the server" kind of thing). Tooltips for an object always goes back to the server, as far as I know.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Thanks for the info.

As i said earlier, I accept this is a situational problem, but I do think that if some thing is not adjusted in the SA Client this event and such future events are going to put the SA Client at a disadvantage vs the 2D Client.

*Shrug* That disadvantage may not out weigh the advantages but .....

 

[Petra Fyde]

there's been a macro created to help loot corpses in a pile, not sure if it would help you find your own, but it might be worth looking at. I posted the initial idea, Storm improved on it and posted it in the sticky.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

there's been a macro created to help loot corpses in a pile, not sure if it would help you find your own, but it might be worth looking at. I posted the initial idea, Storm improved on it and posted it in the sticky.

I will take a look but the issue involves a lot of things (for me).

He he, there was the problem of finding my corpse

There is the problem of finding the Dead Mob's Corpse

There is the problem of finding the Mob to Kill. This one may be the absolute most annoying.

Several times last night there were so many Handles covering up the Mob, and the inability to close them, right click and take a step towards the mob and NOT close the handle. See a sliver of red and try to drag it away, not a chance. Cant even use the sliver of red as a target. And to add to this, while your focusing on this action, you probably are NOT paying attention to the AoE things going on until your world turns to Grey

To make sure this is in context, I never seriously considered jumping out of the SA Client and coming back in the 2D Client.

The only thing pushing me to do that was the Crash's. I can NOT be certain these crash's were not the "some one doing something with boxes/bags etc" thing that goes on in Luna that gets you to the Desktop.

 

[Daga Taga]

If you haven't defragged your computer since the last patch, you really should... it makes a difference in the lag due to all the dynamic objects and stability. In fact, you should do this as a habit after every patch... they are huge!

I agree I do this too, and if I forget I can tell as soon as I start moving around in game.

 

[Storm]

I will take a look but the issue involves a lot of things (for me).

He he, there was the problem of finding my corpse

There is the problem of finding the Dead Mob's Corpse

There is the problem of finding the Mob to Kill. This one may be the absolute most annoying.

Several times last night there were so many Handles covering up the Mob, and the inability to close them, right click and take a step towards the mob and NOT close the handle. See a sliver of red and try to drag it away, not a chance. Cant even use the sliver of red as a target. And to add to this, while your focusing on this action, you probably are NOT paying attention to the AoE things going on until your world turns to Grey

To make sure this is in context, I never seriously considered jumping out of the SA Client and coming back in the 2D Client.

The only thing pushing me to do that was the Crash's. I can NOT be certain these crash's were not the "some one doing something with boxes/bags etc" thing that goes on in Luna that gets you to the Desktop.

first finding your corps should be easy it will show up on your radar map just go to it and cover the corps icon with the icon for you (mine is green dot) and it will be directly under you make sure and zoom in all way..

if that dont work for you use the macro that was posted by petra and I and it will loot your body unless you have all bodies exactly piled on yours and there are more than the macro is set for

as for targeting the enemy use target closest hostile target next hostile macro and it will bring up enemy traget starting with closest to you

dead mob corps works also with macro above for finding yours you may want to make it open more than 5 but thats just what i do...

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

first finding your corps should be easy it will show up on your radar map just go to it and cover the corps icon with the icon for you (mine is green dot) and it will be directly under you make sure and zoom in all way..

if that dont work for you use the macro that was posted by petra and I and it will loot your body unless you have all bodies exactly piled on yours and there are more than the macro is set for

as for targeting the enemy use target closest hostile target next hostile macro and it will bring up enemy traget starting with closest to you

dead mob corps works also with macro above for finding yours you may want to make it open more than 5 but thats just what i do...

I was on top of my corpse as indicated by the wispy light effect of the corpse.

The problem was not being able to move or close anything that was obscuring my corpse label and I sure as heck couldn't see the corpse as it was at the bottom of a realy deep pile or dead things.

The Dead Mob was the same thing.

In both cases let me characterize it this way, just assume that the Client put all the gumps up for the ctrl+shift but anything that expected to find the gump never saw it or more simply they were all just purely informational things on the screen.

They are fairly large, right click on any part of it and you move. Left click on any part of it and nothing, not a target style Gump, nothing. In both cases as though the gump did not exist.

As for the Targeting the Mob, Ok, that is a doable sequence and should circumvent the issue.

A thought, when things are far less congested , on occasion, I need to give some time (measured in seconds) before I can actually move handle gumps around, right click them etc, as though the Client is drawing the Gumps then registering them for other routines to be able to identify with the cursor. IF that were the case then it might stand that the more gumps on the screen the longer it may take for them to all register. There appears to be a max, what if that max is exceeded and well all bets are off as it may be falling into an unhandled condition. Any one reading this needs to keep in mind this is 100% pure speculation. I want to reiterate, this is certainly a situational issue. If the pile of corpses had not been were there were a pile of Vendors on both sides of the street and the houses had not had a pile of lock downs each, then I am NOT sure I would have experienced this issue.

 

[Nenime]

SA Client runs worse than KR for me in Luna.
It is a lagfest.

The EM-event ended just this minute here on Drachenfels. I'm mightily impressed by SA performance. Had only 3-4 motion stops of one second during the hour but not the stop-and-go I used to suffer at such events with 2D or KR. Kudos!

 

[Supreem]

I'm personally focusing on crashes in the new client right now. Any information you guys can give me to help me track them down would be awesome. For example reproducible steps, or identifiable situations where you crash.

Also watch your memory usage and let me know if your computer is running out of memory. (You can monitor your computer's memory usage in the Task Manager in windows from Ctrl-Alt-Delete)

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

For my part and I had two in last nights event ...

I will look at the memory but the few times I have checked the Task Manger Performance tab the peak memory has been at most 2Gig out of 3Gig but hey I am at the Desk Top and can check it out there.

What I always get every single time is the pop up menu you get when you right click on an open desk top space.

Now then how I get it ....

First off it is always during the Event or just after the event and corpses everywhere OR more probable more objects than normal.

I am holding down the right mouse button running around (never on foot so that would be mounted on something) approaching or in a section of town were there are a LOT of vendors. Only during or immediately after the event, I will start to get a ... stutter. If I push on through it (button down) I stand an 80%+ chance of being ok. The rest ends me up at the Desk Top. When I do make it through and I do something like cast a spell or hide the character tends to rubber band a square away.

If I do not push on through it I have yet to crash and I have never noticed the Rubber Band back a square.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

I'm personally focusing on crashes in the new client right now. Any information you guys can give me to help me track them down would be awesome. For example reproducible steps, or identifiable situations where you crash.

Also watch your memory usage and let me know if your computer is running out of memory. (You can monitor your computer's memory usage in the Task Manager in windows from Ctrl-Alt-Delete)

Seems that I mostly got the huge lag and then crash when the flashes of white came. With the exception of the crimson dragons being on my screen it ran pretty flawlessly. There was a slight pause every now and then while moving around luna but nothing major until the Crimson Dragons came. With them on screen things started to get a little out of whack and when the flashes of white came everything would freeze up. Wife had the same problem as me. No Crimson dragon, everything is relatively fine with minor issues, Crimson Dragons Bam! Insta major lag and complete freeze with a side of repeating crashes.

 

[Lady Michelle]

Malas is always laggy even in 2d. I get client crashes when I do things with a bunch of players. If im hunting or doing an Idoc once I recall to trammel my client crashes. because of this I hardly go to malas anymore, and I gave up my malas house because I couldnt customize it because of the lag.taking 2 minutes to laydown 2 floor tiles isnt my idea of fun. I have comcast cable, and my computer is kept up to date, is always defragged , and kept clean. No issues anywhere else. maybe a lil lag if to many players are around but never any client crashes.

 

[Frarc]

The client closes when alot of running and monsters and magic is involved.
Client seems to work fine on champ spawns in Tokuno untill there more magic monsters and spells involved and when you have to run around more often.
There is no crash message just the client that go poof.



In KR we had simular problem but then a crash message did appear. Strange thing about it was that setting the client to run in one core in taskmanager make this problem go away.But thats not something that works for SA.









*AMD Dual core In Vista 32 bit

 

[Fink]

I'm personally focusing on crashes in the new client right now. Any information you guys can give me to help me track them down would be awesome. For example reproducible steps, or identifiable situations where you crash.

To its credit, the only time the Enhanced client has crashed for me was when a Crimson Dragon laid down a firetrail. Of course, I came back dead but the outcome wouldn't have been much different if I'd remained in-game.

Otherwise, I'm still experiencing crippling lag at minimal settings on the same system that ran KR, with all its bells & whistles, like a dream.