Urgent tweeks needed for Tok event

[Lady Tiger]

i'm not afk right now at the dojo but people keep luring stuff to my dog...isn't that banable? yes i'm hidden but also not afk.

 

[Tjalle]

Try show them that you´re attended and see if they´ll stop. If not, page on them...

 

[UOKaiser]

i'm not afk right now at the dojo but people keep luring stuff to my dog...isn't that banable? yes i'm hidden but also not afk.

Fight fire with fire page on every single one that you believe is luring at you. Them answering a GM will not save them. They will get suspended for luring. Do what they do to you assume there guilty and become a anti-page frenzy cop. Don't worry about talking to them to show them youre there. You are not obligated to do that. They are not allow to be moral than thou and believe there griefting is allowed.
When gm shows up to you you say yep am here but if a gm shows up to them im here will not save them from being caught luring. So I say page page and page on every single one that are lurng and being a griefter to you.

 

[slavoie]

I am not completely sure if I see the validity of your argument any longer tho, since it does seem you are trying to skew the policy to fit your argument , I am sure that EA does not consider the journal entries to be an action, thus it is not an action. In this case you would need to make a new point for your argument. I am more or less out of ways to describe this so, unless you come up with something creative I will just have to point to all my current posts and will no longer be able to continue the debate with you

NO need to. I recieved my complimentary 48 hour suspension today for my spawn sitting auto defending activities today. So now the question is when I argure the point of bank sitting what will they say. This is turning into a real life litmus test.

 

[Whinemaker]

Going off topic a bit... I still think they should make 2D disconnect idle chars like KR does, so that people can't burn counts just by sitting at Luna... and maybe that'd help fight afk farming as well.

 

[Foolio the Bard]

NO need to. I recieved my complimentary 48 hour suspension today for my spawn sitting auto defending activities today. So now the question is when I argure the point of bank sitting what will they say. This is turning into a real life litmus test.

Listen, I know you want to get all philosophical about this, but in practical terms it has been established MANY many times on this forum that bank sitting will not get you banned (it is not considered an action as long as you are just sitting there). Engaging in auto-defend combat (golems, etc.) will get you banned (GMs consider it an action).

So argue all you want about what SHOULD BE, but this has been discussed a MILLION times and its not likely to change anytime soon.

 

[Cyrah]

Well slavoie... did you at least get a mempo?

On Origin I could get one if I traded some dude my sorcerer's suit! ha!

I still have no answer as to why it was not made a a major. Except to keep it rare, ok as rare as my 11th anni gift maybe? Why rare then?

I sure do not want to think devs REALLY wanted cheaters to win , but maybe so. One dev had to see how poorly this event was planned. One maybe did?

And one more time why is unattended playing illegal? If players pay why do they have to look at the screen ? Anyone? Just because it is in the TOS is not a an answer as to why it is in the TOS.

 

[UOKaiser]

Going off topic a bit... I still think they should make 2D disconnect idle chars like KR does, so that people can't burn counts just by sitting at Luna... and maybe that'd help fight afk farming as well.

Wouldn't help at all. If they really wanted to do it they can just load up a auto attack script and bang back in action. Will propably push the players that never used a script and are just using the abilitie to be afk into trying out script that will do the job more efficiently.
It's just a month then trammies return to there usual activities and fellucians return to there pvp lands. We be back to complaining about the usual things in no time.

 

[Foolio the Bard]

Going off topic a bit... I still think they should make 2D disconnect idle chars like KR does, so that people can't burn counts just by sitting at Luna... and maybe that'd help fight afk farming as well.

KR has been abandoned and no longer updated. Please stop the constant "but but KR!!!" There are a dozen ways to stay connected -- it wouldn't stop anything.

 

[UOKaiser]

Listen, I know you want to get all philosophical about this, but in practical terms it has been established MANY many times on this forum that bank sitting will not get you banned (it is not considered an action as long as you are just sitting there). Engaging in auto-defend combat (golems, etc.) will get you banned (GMs consider it an action).

So argue all you want about what SHOULD BE, but this has been discussed a MILLION times and its not likely to change anytime soon.

I believe at one point long ago it was illegal to burn off counts unattended by bank sitting and the gm went around wasting resources on this baning any unattended bank sitters till finaly they just let it go. Don't remmember when but it was a long time ago.

 

[slavoie]

Listen, I know you want to get all philosophical about this, but in practical terms it has been established MANY many times on this forum that bank sitting will not get you banned (it is not considered an action as long as you are just sitting there). Engaging in auto-defend combat (golems, etc.) will get you banned (GMs consider it an action).

So argue all you want about what SHOULD BE, but this has been discussed a MILLION times and its not likely to change anytime soon.

Fresh of his call to EA support Mion rushes back to the common folk to tell his tail.

Here it is everybody straight from someone who was willing to challange the system. My suspension is being reversed! Apparently you are not required to answer a GM if you are sitting in the desert while monsters auto attack you. The rep did say that the GM's handle it .. sorry he called the GM "in game customer service" I thought that was funny. said the GM's handle each situation on a case by case basis, so one might wisk you off to jail while another might not, either way he agreed with me that I don't have to respond if i'm just sitting there. He also said that the behaviour of sitting at the bank allowing the game to refresh you while you are either there or not there is the "exact"... <---- the exact same thing as standing in the desert and auto defending monsters, and the GM's can and have done the same thing to people that they find non-responsive at the bank, although as I think it has been established here you don't have to respond in either situation but by then your account is already suspended and you have to wait on the phone for 40 minutes just to wait 1-2 more days to get back on by which time you might be un-suspended anyways.

Atleast the mark on my account will be removed. I won't be pushing the limits anytime soon if you know what I mean, but for all you bank sitters out there your time is comming...

Ok off to play on my second account.

Oh and as for the mempo, the answer is NO

 

[Foolio the Bard]

My suspension is being reversed!

Welcome to the 2nd Law of UO: All GMs enforce the rules differently.

 

[Whinemaker]

KR has been abandoned and no longer updated. Please stop the constant "but but KR!!!" There are a dozen ways to stay connected -- it wouldn't stop anything.

But, but KR!
Well I'm just simply saying it's one of those functions that could be incorporated into 2D, it has nothing to do with whether KR is abandoned or not.

And just a side note, I certainly don't know a dozen ways to stay connected, with the way KR handles idle chars, at least.

 

[H2O]

My suspension is being reversed!

Welcome to the 2nd Law of UO: All GMs enforce the rules differently.

You are 100% correct on that statement. That is why so many players cheat at everything since they know it's a snow ball chance in hell they will ever get banned. They need to do away with all the warnings and grow a pair and ban people and once word gets out they do take action the cheats will slow down a lot. It will not stop them by no means but it will slow them down by a lot.

 

[Demonous]

i can't believe this thread has this many posts, too many complainers, people script stuff afk, deal with it, gms don't care so stop bothering them

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Fresh of his call to EA support Mion rushes back to the common folk to tell his tail.

Here it is everybody straight from someone who was willing to challange the system. My suspension is being reversed! Apparently you are not required to answer a GM if you are sitting in the desert while monsters auto attack you. The rep did say that the GM's handle it .. sorry he called the GM "in game customer service" I thought that was funny. said the GM's handle each situation on a case by case basis, so one might wisk you off to jail while another might not, either way he agreed with me that I don't have to respond if i'm just sitting there. He also said that the behaviour of sitting at the bank allowing the game to refresh you while you are either there or not there is the "exact"... <---- the exact same thing as standing in the desert and auto defending monsters, and the GM's can and have done the same thing to people that they find non-responsive at the bank, although as I think it has been established here you don't have to respond in either situation but by then your account is already suspended and you have to wait on the phone for 40 minutes just to wait 1-2 more days to get back on by which time you might be un-suspended anyways.

Atleast the mark on my account will be removed. I won't be pushing the limits anytime soon if you know what I mean, but for all you bank sitters out there your time is comming...

Ok off to play on my second account.

Oh and as for the mempo, the answer is NO

Actually it is up to the call center to retain subscriptions, if reversing the ban keeps you paying then it is their job to do as such. This does not mean that the people who Write the rules for the game did not intend for the auto defend to be a considered illegal it just means that "retention" gets to decide how to retain you.

Maybe some people remember when they had that greeting type event at the gm center? Yes being able to ask the actual people who wrote the rules what they consider breaking them is much more accurate than the retention people saying that is ok we will let you off because we need your money. You should have kept going, they could have done alot more for you than just unsuspend you

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

KR has been abandoned and no longer updated. Please stop the constant "but but KR!!!" There are a dozen ways to stay connected -- it wouldn't stop anything.

Only by moving can you stay logged in with how KR handles it. Actually even in the 2d client, attacking monsters would not fix it you would have to do something more than that, but in KR you have to move about, since its the only way the game knows you are there.

And talking about how KR handles things is not the same as saying everyone should play KR it is to incorporate the features KR has into the 2d client in order to fix the problems the 2d client has.

 

[slavoie]

Actually it is up to the call center to retain subscriptions, if reversing the ban keeps you paying then it is their job to do as such. This does not mean that the people who Write the rules for the game did not intend for the auto defend to be a considered illegal it just means that "retention" gets to decide how to retain you.

Maybe some people remember when they had that greeting type event at the gm center? Yes being able to ask the actual people who wrote the rules what they consider breaking them is much more accurate than the retention people saying that is ok we will let you off because we need your money. You should have kept going, they could have done alot more for you than just unsuspend you

AHHHHHH man I should have demanded a MEMPO!!

I see your point but this guy was very fimiliar with UO he was quite clear about the bank sitting thing and the auto defend being the same thing. He may have "retained" me by seeing my situation in my favor but there should be no more arguement about the bank sitting. One of the things he said was it takes up resources on the server that deny them to the other "active" players. He did not really bite on the journal thing but said he could see my point. All and all if a GM tries to talk to me I'm going to respond, it's not worth not having my account for 1-3 days with or without the mark.

 

[Cyrah]

"Takes up resources on the server that deny them to the other active players".

Aha! At last a reason! That might be true now if they had not run off so many players.

 

[Prince Caspian]

Same thing that's been posted over and over since this round of ToT started.

I've thrown in the ol' towel on this argument. It's moot. The devs don't care, and all it does is jam another weary page in an overstuffed tome of arguments about unattended playing.

Just remember, if you even imply that a hiding tamer is conduscive to unattended macroing, then you are a 100% goose-stepping tamer-hater and saying every tamer in the universe is cheating at the game and you are a hatemongering ne'er-do-well worthy to be dropped to the Rancor.

 

[Harlequin]

"Takes up resources on the server that deny them to the other active players".

Aha! At last a reason! That might be true now if they had not run off so many players.

In the days of yore, afk macroing wasn't illegal. However, it soon became a problem when people macro'd day and night (and without even using the complex scripting programs today).

Players coming home hoping to play would get a "Server full" message for hours on end. Even if you got in, remember that this was back when dial up was the norm, and people get disconnected very often. If you lose connection, you'd often not be able to get back in as well.

In essense, afk macro'rs that were not even playing were hogging system resources and denying other players a chance to log in. Hence the anti-macroing rules.

Now, the servers are alot more powerful and we never see the server full message anymore. But afk macroing still takes up system resources that can be better dedicated to active players. Including spawn, wood, ore etc etc. At the simplest levels, it's a tad unfair to the players that recall to the mines to find that someone not even playing have harvested all the ore/wood/spawn etc.

Not to mention electricity and wear & tear on the hardware. Remember that Draconi revealed in facebook that to save CPU cycles, the mobs stop moving when there are no players around? It may not seem like alot, but on a massive scale for systems that run 24/7, it adds up to substantial savings on resources. Costs that the game company has to bear and would eat into its profits.

At the most extreme, imagine that afk macroing is allowed and the servers are populated mainly by scripters and bots. Would you like to play UO on a server where every character you meet is controlled by an automated script? In other words, would you play an MMO where everyone out there are simple NPCs that don't even respond to you? No one would play UO anymore and the game will really die.

So even though there is only 30% to 50% of the population compared to 10 years ago, there are many reasons the people running the game has not rescinded this decision.

Hopes that makes sense.

Re the reduced population - any new game will always have a massive influx of players. Alot of these will leave after the initial stages. Realistically, less than half are expected to remain and the population will stabilize at this figure. I think that's what we are seeing in UO now plus some atrophy through the years.

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

I personally think the Dev team should make ALL SHARDS, ALL FEL RULES!!!

LMAO @ all you little wussies running for the door. I'm also LMAO @ ""The OMG pvp; I'll quit crowd too"!

Lets all face it most Trammies are cowardly, pathetic, greifing wussies who wouldn't last a minute in FEL. Instead of wasting space on Stratics whining like a bunch of Kindegarteners, you could just PK the ******* that pissin' in your Post Toasties!

BTW, You could power a wind generator with all the hot air around here from the perpetual WHINING, and you could fertilize the entire state of Texas with all the BULLSH*T.

I'm sorry but every event its the same regurgitated BS. I got a novel suggestion.....WHY DON"T YA'LL SHUT UP AND PLAY?!?!?!?!

Now consider yourselves .....!

 

[Deathy56]

Hello all, my name is Plague...and I am a Stealth/Tamer (Hello Plague)
Those of you on Baja know me (and love me????)

All you people pancakes about Stealth/Tamers...what's up? I received my 48 hours suspension because someone paged a GM, he told me to respond, I didn't and bam...suspension. That's what you need to do or...

If you folks notice the spawn takes a few seconds to target the pet, if you target it first the tamer will have no kills. I move to a new spot when someone does this. If the tamer doesn't, then he gets no kills. Yet another solution or...

If in fan dancer dojo, drag a succubi to the pet. The life sucking area attack will retarget the succubi to the tamer (even if hidden) and dead tamer. Or...

If you're a mage invise the pet. The pet won't move since not targeted. When I am killing in an area where the stealth tamer is AFK this is what I usually do. Or...

Make your own stealth tamer and be part of the problem. It's way more fun than being part of the solution.

The point is there are many ways to get around people cheating...the best is to call a GM and have them banned. Oh wait, I take that back....the best is to whine impotently on a forum and not do anything that will actually help. The more you pint out the cheaters to GM or the developers the more will get caught and the less will try.

Hugs and Kisses

 

[Deathy56]

One more thing...

Why do any of you care if a cheater gets more TOT arties than you do? Does their getting an artie take away from yours? No. It really doesn't. Will the cheaters be able to make more money than you off of this? Yeah, but they also risk suspension (which hopefully gets worse and worse for repeat offenders). You roll the dice you take your chances.

How does this really hurt any of you who complain that the developers planned this so poorly. I think they do a good job of making sure we have events and they are planning it for the majority of people who are not cheaters, not trying to make it cheater-proof. You will never be able to stop all cheaters and right now they are doing their best to enforce the rules they have created. Dev...I say thank you.

Also...it's just a game. Try not to get so mad. Supposed to be fun.

 

[SixUnder]

I don't care if they're hidden or not.

The GMs need to patrol Tokuno and actually enforce the game's ToS. It would be nice to see them doing something, and they could jail a few unattended folks in the process. I don' care if people sit andfarm the same place day and night... just make their asses SIT THERE when they do.

This is like they've set up speed traps... but didn't bother staffing them with any cops.

agreed.
BUT if a player is hidden and in game with their pet and NOT running scripts or something it is 100% legal. A tamer just sitting somewhere in game, hidden with his pet killing things with no scripts running is not illegal.
just how it works.

 

[Der Rock]

Maybe I took his comment too seriously, but he stated that he knew the players got marks. Not that I'm being an idiot because I've been paged on for the same reason hes paged on other players and haven't been marked for it yet because how am I suppose to know if the player is afk or just being obnoxious?

If a player chooses to remain silent/stealthed while still maintaining a hunting spree, they by all rights deserve to be treated like scripters.

Wow, I missed the line in the TOS or RoC that states I am obliged to speak everyone that comes my way.

I did read how luring and griefing is a no-no.

So if you want to pride yourself on luring against those you don't see fit to play, then it is you that is running the risk of having your account marked or even banned.

here is a example:
sometimes if i am on the living room computer(we have 4 computers in house),i lay on the couch,light is switched off and i play uo for releaxing
so all is dark.i cant see the key´s on the keyboard,all i do is relaxing and kill monster, so i dont talk to other players(why should i ?,)
it takes not 10 min and the other player starting trashtalking about me.
"ah this scum is using heal scripts" "oh he is using target scripts" and so on

all i can say is:hey idiots, learn how uo and uoassist works,and learn what mana stamina and life leech means on a waepon,always at events, the dumbest crowd came out of their holes, LOL 90% off all player have NO clue how this game works.

if the whiners would PLAY the game and if they would not spent most of their time with trashtalking and disturbing other players, they would get more marties

the behavior of many players is just ludicrous in uo ,realy
i BET, those players have also in real a very very low education

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

In the days of yore, afk macroing wasn't illegal. However, it soon became a problem when people macro'd day and night (and without even using the complex scripting programs today).

Re the reduced population - any new game will always have a massive influx of players. Alot of these will leave after the initial stages. Realistically, less than half are expected to remain and the population will stabilize at this figure. I think that's what we are seeing in UO now plus some atrophy through the years.

Back then they use to move you to Bucc's den baths tho .

Also I do not think we are seeing the end of the "initial stages" of uo. The game spirals downward based on things that ea changes about it, on the same note it also gains. The biggest fall is that cheating happens often enough that everyone in game knows about it, usually everyone knows who cheats as well, and if they don't they just accuse everyone of it. Either way the game goes up and down and still has potential to grow if they can fix the few problems that causes people to leave or to not recommend the game.

 

[Theo_GL]

The bottom line is this: This event encourages mindless farming. If you want a bunch of Chaos Blue dyes or a Mempo, or all the Majors, you need to spend some serious hours farming -- attended or unattended.

I spend a lot of time with my laptop on my lap, in front of the tv while I farm my minors.

If the Devs truly wanted to have an event without mindless farming (and which discouraged unattended people) it would be very simple. One easy idea would be to have an NPC you report to in Tokuno. Each time you take his quest, you are assigned a random Tokuno monster to kill, and a number of them to kill that is also random between say 20-40.

When you are done with the quest, you get a random minor.

Very simple, and would kill 99% of scripting since what monster and how many would be totally random.

Exactly. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

There are about a dozen ways to make this less about farming and more about an 'event'. This is no 'event'. It is an old system they turn on once a year to give us something to do for lack of time to code anything else with the skeleton dev team we have trying to crank out SA.

Let's be realistic here. We have a meager dev team trying to keep a dying game alive.

 

[Cyrah]

hi all!

Did not want to start a new thread, hehe.

Do you guys think that when we get blackrock it could have been a mempo?

Just curious on this is all.

Happy week end to players who do not cheat!

 

[Ash]

AHHHHHH man I should have demanded a MEMPO!!

I see your point but this guy was very fimiliar with UO he was quite clear about the bank sitting thing and the auto defend being the same thing. He may have "retained" me by seeing my situation in my favor but there should be no more arguement about the bank sitting. One of the things he said was it takes up resources on the server that deny them to the other "active" players. He did not really bite on the journal thing but said he could see my point. All and all if a GM tries to talk to me I'm going to respond, it's not worth not having my account for 1-3 days with or without the mark.

He may have been very familiar and quite clear, but also extremely wrong. EA's support site includes this in it's definition of unattended macroing:

Unattended macroing means being away from your UO session while your character repeats a series of actions (even automatic ones such as combat or passive skill gain) for any length of time.

Although admittedly the description can use a little improvement since it concludes with this gem:

Remember, you have to be doing something, such as a skill, chat, or action to be in violation of our unattended macroing policy.

Find it intriguing how someone could chat unattended.

 

[Tjalle]

Find it intriguing how someone could chat unattended.

Luna shop gaters for example?

 

[OldAsTheHills]

hi all!

Did not want to start a new thread, hehe.

Do you guys think that when we get blackrock it could have been a mempo?

Just curious on this is all.

Happy week end to players who do not cheat!

No...one of the main reasons for this ToT III monster droppings...hehe... is
to place small pieces of blackrock into your hands...

They are to be used in the next event...

*stares*
Yahaxithonix

 

[Lady Michelle]

I personally think the Dev team should make ALL SHARDS, ALL FEL RULES!!!

LMAO @ all you little wussies running for the door. I'm also LMAO @ ""The OMG pvp; I'll quit crowd too"!

Lets all face it most Trammies are cowardly, pathetic, greifing wussies who wouldn't last a minute in FEL. Instead of wasting space on Stratics whining like a bunch of Kindegarteners, you could just PK the ******* that pissin' in your Post Toasties!

BTW, You could power a wind generator with all the hot air around here from the perpetual WHINING, and you could fertilize the entire state of Texas with all the BULLSH*T.

I'm sorry but every event its the same regurgitated BS. I got a novel suggestion.....WHY DON"T YA'LL SHUT UP AND PLAY?!?!?!?!

Now consider yourselves .....!

UM all shards have fel unless you know of shards that are all trammel based and you are holding out on us.
because someone chooses to play the way they want does not give anyone a right to cut them down, and call them names. That kinda makes me think is that someone who posts things like this are still in kindergarten. really doesn't matter how anyone plays as long as it is legit.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

UM all shards have fel unless you know of shards that are all trammel based and you are holding out on us.
because someone chooses to play the way they want does not give anyone a right to cut them down, and call them names. That kinda makes me think is that someone who posts things like this are still in kindergarten. really doesn't matter how anyone plays as long as it is legit.

Lets not forget most people who complain about this are people who play in fel majority of the time. Of course I am not sure what the difference in all shards having a fel has to do with all facets being under the fel ruleset on all shards (that is what he suggested anyway).

Do not agree all trammel players are grievers, fel players would fit that bill tho (yes rez killing people is grieving, just because more or less anything goes in fel does not mean you are held to a lower moral standard). And because people choose not to pvp does not mean they are unable, the game is not about killing other players only so people should not be forced to have to engage in such things just because the smallest part of the population feels that way, lets face it more people play in trammel 100pct of the time than all the other mixtures of people.

If you still do not understand let me break it down for you.

100% trammel players = 90% of UO population
100% fellucia players (prolly do not exist) = For the sake of people who actually confine themselves to siege I will say 1% of the UO population
90% of the time fel = About 2-3% of the population
Mixture of playing in fel and tram = 6-7% of the population

Can you see now? It is simple logic to keep tram, in fact if they would get rid of any facet on ALL shards it is more likely they will get rid of fel since they will not lose as much money that way. Hmm this could be endless but meh I will end it there.

Edit: Obviously not all of that was to you Lady Michelle. Just wanted to make sure that was clear

 

[Lady Michelle]

Lets not forget most people who complain about this are people who play in fel majority of the time. Of course I am not sure what the difference in all shards having a fel has to do with all facets being under the fel ruleset on all shards (that is what he suggested anyway).

Do not agree all trammel players are grievers, fel players would fit that bill tho (yes rez killing people is grieving, just because more or less anything goes in fel does not mean you are held to a lower moral standard). And because people choose not to pvp does not mean they are unable, the game is not about killing other players only so people should not be forced to have to engage in such things just because the smallest part of the population feels that way, lets face it more people play in trammel 100pct of the time than all the other mixtures of people.

If you still do not understand let me break it down for you.

100% trammel players = 90% of UO population
100% fellucia players (prolly do not exist) = For the sake of people who actually confine themselves to siege I will say 1% of the UO population
90% of the time fel = About 2-3% of the population
Mixture of playing in fel and tram = 6-7% of the population

Can you see now? It is simple logic to keep tram, in fact if they would get rid of any facet on ALL shards it is more likely they will get rid of fel since they will not lose as much money that way. Hmm this could be endless but meh I will end it there.

Edit: Obviously not all of that was to you Lady Michelle. Just wanted to make sure that was clear

Shh!!! I know what she meant when she posted shard and not facet, but I couldn't resist.
The point is does not matter what facet someone plays tram or fel I like both facets, and hope they never get rid of either one. It is very simple concept here respect other players play styles, and stop assuming because someone griefs whine and cries that others know what facet they play on and stop labeling them. Some like to play in tram so what no big deal, same goes for fel players. Play as you please as long as it is legit.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Shh!!! I know what she meant when she posted shard and not facet, but I couldn't resist.
The point is does not matter what facet someone plays tram or fel I like both facets, and hope they never get rid of either one. It is very simple concept here respect other players play styles, and stop assuming because someone griefs whine and cries that others know what facet they play on and stop labeling them. Some like to play in tram so what no big deal, same goes for fel players. Play as you please as long as it is legit.

Haha, yea I got your point (read all the rest of my post ). What really bothers me tho is that people read the complaints and then attack the trammel players when it is mostly fel people doing any complaining. -.- It is really sad that they complain about the fel players and then complain about the fel players complaining about the other fel players all the while calling everyone trammel players. Fact of the matter is, it does not matter what facet you spend most of your time on you are no better than the people who spend most of their time on the opposite facet, hell I would even be willing to bet most of the people who complain about trammel never even played before tram was introduced. (BTW this means you had to spend alot of time in trammel when you started since you did not know any better, or you spent most of your time in trammel and only recently have seen what fel is like. Either one of those cases read the following: )

This is a logical bet to me because it would seem to me that current population < past population. After taking that into account you can then figure how many people have quit, majority of which would have to be old players so that means number of current old players < in the past, now count in that uo has gained plenty of new people since trammels introduction, in fact more than the number of people who had played prior to trammel being introduced so that means number of new players since trammel > number of people before trammel. After you take all of that in to account you can see it is not possible for there to be THAT MANY old players left to even complain about this, also of all the old players I know none of them even have this fel/tram complex and all play the game for fun and do not care, or rather do not complain about it. So people you can not say "make everything fel" if you never played when there was no trammel, and for the record I have played long enough to state all of that, so go ahead and accuse me of what you wish you will only prove all my points further.