Understatement, but yes, lol. More people just need to learn to ignore his posts or better yet stop feeding him.
Colter has the right idea though:
Take my advice......... Nothing this person says is ever worth reading.
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Colter has the right idea though:
Im not sure why factions sworn to war with one another should only be able to fight where the leaves don't grow. I would like to see faction flagging open up to every facet. Im not a fan of this perception that Fel should be the only pvp facet I would like to see pvp everywhere in some form or another.
Just to make it absolutely crystal clear for Enigma:
The faction point and rank system is based on faction load. If there are 20 people in the Minax faction, only so many can hold certain ranks, so the more people artificially inflating their rank (via points) the harder it is for the people playing VALIDLY to achieve rank.
This happened in my own (recent) faction. The number of kill points it took to read faction rank 10 was 10 points. Then a Tram guild joined, exploited the system to artificially raise their own ranking to level 10 (to acquire the highest arties) then trucked back to Tram and stayed there. This artificial boosting of points and ranks caused the required kill points to reach rank 10 to go up to 12. So they upped all their points, and in turn the requirements went up again.
These people who had ZERO interest in factions for their actual purpose, were making it increasingly more difficult for people trying to VALIDLY play the system acquire rank. There was nothing we could do about this. We could not go kill them and take their points. OPPOSING FACTIONS could not go kill them and take their points, making it so that we could, in turn, re-acquire the points in the way that was intended.
If you cannot see how that is harming the system, then your really ARE admitting that you care NOTHING for the good of the game as a *whole*, and only care for your narrow-minded personal agenda.
The faction point and rank system is based on faction load. If there are 20 people in the Minax faction, only so many can hold certain ranks, so the more people artificially inflating their rank (via points) the harder it is for the people playing VALIDLY to achieve rank.
This happened in my own (recent) faction. The number of kill points it took to read faction rank 10 was 10 points. Then a Tram guild joined, exploited the system to artificially raise their own ranking to level 10 (to acquire the highest arties) then trucked back to Tram and stayed there. This artificial boosting of points and ranks caused the required kill points to reach rank 10 to go up to 12. So they upped all their points, and in turn the requirements went up again.
These people who had ZERO interest in factions for their actual purpose, were making it increasingly more difficult for people trying to VALIDLY play the system acquire rank. There was nothing we could do about this. We could not go kill them and take their points. OPPOSING FACTIONS could not go kill them and take their points, making it so that we could, in turn, re-acquire the points in the way that was intended.
If you cannot see how that is harming the system, then your really ARE admitting that you care NOTHING for the good of the game as a *whole*, and only care for your narrow-minded personal agenda.
Sorry I ment not all my characters are in factions on the account with the castle. but my character that owns the castle is. yes I know but its not the same.
This is a valid point here for wanting this brought to the tram rulesets
How about anyone in factions that have faction points can be attacked in tram rulesets , if no points you can't be attacked or attack anyone. I think that would be fair this way no one can hide and keep points.
- Awards
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I actually had to block someone over this thread due to a very nasty and rude PM.
I want to say folks it's okay to disagree with one side or the other, but let's not get psycho over it okay? It's just a GAME. This poll was just to see how many people felt the way I do about the state of factions since the changes last year.
I want to say folks it's okay to disagree with one side or the other, but let's not get psycho over it okay? It's just a GAME. This poll was just to see how many people felt the way I do about the state of factions since the changes last year.
Would you please elaborate on this, Omnious? I'm confused about what you're talking about here. How does allowing faction fighting in Trammel accomplish these things??
What you are not balancing against is the most obvious answer, DONT LET THEM ENTER TRAMMEL if they are in factions.
The entire advocacy of letting Factions into Trammel is nothing short of caving in and saying Factions is defunct, worthless and nothing can be done to save it.
Why should Crafters be allowed to craft in Trammel?
Factions is about defending your town. It should NEVER have been allowed to be perverted to allow Factions to be a matter of convience.
To FORCE the NON PvP players to be affected negatively because YOUR side can not make something work is not only cynical but outrageous.
You all would be much better advised to get Factions back up and running, doing/being what it was supposed to do/be, rather than constantly looking for excuses to punish/negatively affect others.
Why on Earth did you ever accept the proposal that Faction people could go hide out in Trammel? To make some one else statement oppositely of the way they made it, if a PvP person wants to PvM in Trammel then they should make a Trammel PvM character and play it. They should NEVER have been allowed to have their PvP character covered by both Rule Sets simultaneously. It was a train wreck just waiting to happen.
So yeah I am looking out for the best interest of the game as I see it, and from this perspective it is to compel the PvP group to take responsibility to get Felluca and its Rule Set back up and running the way it was intended to be, instead of being perverted to be some hybrid Felluca/Trammel Multiple Personality Disorder person.
You want to encourage people to see what PvP is all about, to demystify it, to lose fear of it? Then start a weekly event give it structure, rules, BUILD THE COMMUNITY.
*Gasp* you wouldnt mean like FOCUS ON THE SUBJECT AND LEAVE THE POSTERS OUT OF IT would you? Nah not you. You like to not only demean people but entire groups of people
But I certainly do agree with you on people should (not that they will or can) simply disagree with in the context of the issues and keep the discussion on the issues, rather than on the poster.
And I agree with Kelmo, it is SAD when some one demeans others and gets called on it, to turn around and cry foul play. It kind of reminds me of the big bad A$$ Pkr of Miners and Crafters coming here and whining about how they got their butts whipped by an Archer, a Mage, a Tamer etc.
Enigma, I've been trying to wade through your posts and it seems like the point you are trying to make is that people who choose to play in Trammel are in danger of somehow being corrupted if they end up being in the same area of the game with someone who PvPs in Fel. It's almost as if you fear that everyone who has done any kind of PvPing is going to go to Trammel and spout off a bunch of trash that will be a chore for someone to ignore. Or that PvPing in Fel automatically triggers you to act like a jackass when your characters go to Trammel.
Am I getting an accurate reading of how you feel about people who PvP in Fel? Are you honestly afraid that if PvPing between characters that aren't in the same guild were to occur in Luna on Lake Austin, it's going to end up being more unpleasant to be around than watching what often happens between guild and alliance mates? I've seen plenty of trash talk and ganking happen in Luna and a lot of it's on a par with what can be experienced in Fel.
Am I getting an accurate reading of how you feel about people who PvP in Fel? Are you honestly afraid that if PvPing between characters that aren't in the same guild were to occur in Luna on Lake Austin, it's going to end up being more unpleasant to be around than watching what often happens between guild and alliance mates? I've seen plenty of trash talk and ganking happen in Luna and a lot of it's on a par with what can be experienced in Fel.
Tina, do us both a favor and stop the cute act. That is all it is. Do not waste my time with your sob story about wading through anything, here is a clue, I really don't care about your self serving sob stories. You proceed to make the post about your ... well totally uninformed fantasy about who and what I am or you can confine your post to the subject, which obviously you are NOT going to do or even interested in doing. (see how easy it is to paint a picture of some one)
I bring no fears of anything, for either side to this discussion. I have ... experience with people on forums.
Let me tell you of a Thread on CoB a long time ago. When the first crack in DD's protection of the PvP criminals started to show. But let me digress to make sure those that do not know, be given some in site. DD insisted, and I TOTALLY AGREED THEN AND NOW with him that for a Community to self actuate, it NEEDS FOR EVIL TO EXIST. This Evil is the Thief, it is the Murder, it is the Con man selling goods. These things are mandatory if one wants a Vital, thriving Community.
What happened along the way, what was the CRACK IN DD's posture? The very nature of what that Evil was. The man thought he could control the ... A$$hats, Hackers, Cheaters etc. I knew he could not and while we were in 100% agreement with what was needed we were in 100% disagreement on who that was.
Now to the interesting thread.
When the crack down came on PvP the A$$HAT jerk PvP people HID BEHIND THE GOOD PvP People in those conversations. The GOOD PvP People to their discredit NEVER ADMITTED THERE WAS A PROBLEM IN THEIR RANKS. I am confident they did not because they were concerned that it would impact their play style negatively (SEE THE NERF OF THE THIEF FOR THE SAME REASONS).
What do I see on this board in the never ending threads about Nerf the guy that killed me, Johnny has some thing I DONT WANT HIM TO HAVE etc.
Good people defending BAD BEHAVIOR. Good people perverting their own sense of Ethics, of what is right and wrong, what is good for the game and bad for the game, for concern that they may lose their play style. And in the process Sell out other peoples rights to play the game as they want to.
I do not bring fear of anything to this or any other discussion.
I do NOT fear there are A$$HAT Pkrs, I KNOW there are. I know there are on LA. I know others know there are as well. IF only LA could banish its young to SP until they grow up. Having said that LA has the lowest percentile of Problem People of all the shards I frequent/play on.
I will advocate for the rights of those that have chosen to NOT be exposed to PvP (you automatically read as sheer, stark terror don't you, why because it serves your needs?). That IF they are going to be negatively affected, then THERE DARN WELL BETTER BE A BETTER JUSTIFICATION THAN SOME PETTY .... ENVY OR EGO GAME. How totally petty can one get than to seek to affect others negatively because of some Righteous Indignation over an action that they admit has NO IMPACT ON THEIR GAME PLAY.
How about this, I was stopped 20 to 30 times by people on LA tonight thanking me for speaking up for them. The posters on a forum routinely gain the perspective they are the entire UO community. *Laugh* They/We are NOT. We are a statistically insignificant number of the total UO population. That may at any given instant reflect a some what larger percentage of the total UO community.
That the people that have the best handle on everything is and has always been the UO Team. PO'd people like to run them into the ground and to their credit (DD sure as hades wouldn't have) they do NOT rebut them.
It constantly astounds me that a handful of perpetual whiners on the board miss the most compelling and totally obvious fact .. That UO IS STILL HERE AND RUNNING WELL. This is NOT because of those handful of Posters here, it is because the UO Team has persistently been competent Shepard's/Steward's of the franchise making the correct choices.
*Shrug*
I am sure you have good reason for your opinion.
It might be of interest to you to think maybe I have good reason for my opinion. But then again maybe it isn't
That is the beauty and power of being human.
F
Foolio the Bard
Guest
This thread is hilarious.
Enigma was funny at first, but now it's like watching a trainwreck in slow motion.
Enigma was funny at first, but now it's like watching a trainwreck in slow motion.
F
Foolio the Bard
Guest
YOUR assertation DOESN'T make IT so IN reality! I have REBUTTED your REBUTTAL and TRAMMEL has NEVER had PVP ever EVER!
Let me do this for you Michelle, but first a truth. I rarely to never respond to a poster directly. I pick a post that provides me a platform to put forth a view point, not for the poster but for the viewers of the thread, posting viewers and lurkers (aka guest) and well ... others that may be looking for a spirited debate.
Trammel and its Rule Set needs nothing from the UO community but to be left alone. Those people will dojust fine, they will be the ones that turn off the lights when UO shuts down, if ever. They simply need some one to stand between them and the .... Jerks that resent them for being happy in their play style, that would take from them simply because they are having a good time.
The far more interesting side, Felucca is and has always been the best of UO. It is the side that can make its own rules, believe it or not it is true. Felluca can provide the most intense game experience. Felluca can provide the most memorable memories of any current MMORPG.
From my perspective, Felluca is a wasteland. A wasted opportunity. That continues tom spiral down into the bottomless pit because its proponents have taken the easier path of trying so desperately to bring Trammel down to their own misery. Abandoning any and all hope for Felluca.
It does so because there is a piece of it that is .... worthless, destructive and pointless. That part is a poison saping the rest of the body from reaching for a better Facet.
This poison comes in two parts. One part could care less about what I am going to say, the other part is going to mount a holy war on me for saying it.
The first part and the easy part, the A$$HATS, jerks, gankers, cheats, hackers etc. These people are plain and simple the seeds of destruction for PvP in UO. In an objective state I doubt there are many that will contest this.
The harder group, the ones that will come after me with a vengeance. I call them the Tweeners. They live in both worlds simultaneously. Knowingly or unknowingly their goal is to merge the two Rule Sets TO THEIR BEST INTEREST. They persist in believing THEY are what keeps UO alive. How totally wrong they are. People need to grasp this and put their arms around it. The People in Trammel are the Pocket Book of UO that keep it open. The Tweeners are a constant angst to the Trammel Pocket Book.
The Tweeners will dilute the Felluca Rule Set until it is basically NON existent. Their, knowingly or unknowingly, ideal Rule Set for Felluca is the Trammel Rule set with things like Factions, Guild War Fare.
That is a Rule Set that will NOT have, nor will it tolerate, the kind of Evil that an Alive and thriving Community needs to have.
So one could look behind all the personal attacks on me and see that I equally advocate for the Felluca Rule Set. One could conclude there is a single (not really as I will always be against the Jerks) group that I stand against and they would be far more correct than wrong.
One could say I am and advocate for a Pure Felluca(PvP) Rule Set and a Pure Trammel(PvM) Rule Set. That would be far more correct than wrong.
The Haze/Smoke of confusion is from the Tweeners trying to paint me as a psycho, a moron, a second class person ala the English is not my primary language day care psycho babble, that also states clearly they have no respect for the people that actually do not speak English as their primary language. I mean when they do that psycho babble it is intended to be an insult and demeaning, that is what reveals what they think of people that really do not speak English as a primary language.
Enigma, I'm a bit confounded at this point on how to reply to your comments about me. I'm sorry if you took the way I phrased my questions as "being cute." I was attempting to get a better understanding of where you're coming from with your comments. It feels like you're trying to protect something or someone and I guess I thought your comments might make more sense to me (and maybe to others) if I could confirm that.
And before you assume that the reason I want to confirm that is because I have some evil plan to get at whoever it is, just stop right there. If you've got kids playing UO and you don't want them exposed to some of the stuff that goes on or is expressed in UO, I sympathize with you. I think, however, that you may be optimistically naive if you think you can filter out every possible bad word or obscenity and that trying to keep people who PvP out of Trammel is a fool-proof solution.
And if I'm off-base with what I suspect is making you react so strongly to this subject, I'm sorry. Can't say it more clearly than that.
Can you please do me a tiny favor, Enigma, before you blast into me again, as I suspect you're going to do because I seem to have tap-danced on your last nerve tonight? Spell out the abbreviations you've used. I've only played UO since late 2004 and don't know what you're talking about when you refer to the "CoB." I also have no idea who "DD" is.
And before you assume that the reason I want to confirm that is because I have some evil plan to get at whoever it is, just stop right there. If you've got kids playing UO and you don't want them exposed to some of the stuff that goes on or is expressed in UO, I sympathize with you. I think, however, that you may be optimistically naive if you think you can filter out every possible bad word or obscenity and that trying to keep people who PvP out of Trammel is a fool-proof solution.
And if I'm off-base with what I suspect is making you react so strongly to this subject, I'm sorry. Can't say it more clearly than that.
Can you please do me a tiny favor, Enigma, before you blast into me again, as I suspect you're going to do because I seem to have tap-danced on your last nerve tonight? Spell out the abbreviations you've used. I've only played UO since late 2004 and don't know what you're talking about when you refer to the "CoB." I also have no idea who "DD" is.
I feel compelled to add for Enigma's benefit that I didn't get to read your reply to Michelle until after I made my last post.
Now have fun plunking me into a category.
Now have fun plunking me into a category.
It is patently obvious that you do not understand UO at its' most basic level.
First - let's define "consent / consentual" as applied to UO... Something like "There are potential consequences to performing this action. Knowing this, do you wish to perform this action." seems like a reasonable definition.
If you go to Felucca, you consent to all the potential consequences.
If you join a Guild, you consent to all the potential consequences.
If you hunt in Doom, you consent to all the potential consequences.
If you interact with any other player, you consent to all the potential consequences.
If you want to go Trammel hunting in partnership with a Faction player, you consent to all the potential consequences.
If you ask a Factioneer for help, you consent to all the potential consequences.
You cannot accuse these changes of affecting your gameplay if you have already consented to the risk.
If you wish to remain unaffected by the actions of other players, then play a solo game, and avoid all inter-player interractions. (I have no problem with you making this choice, which is the difference between us - I am happy for you to play the game you wish, but you seem to be denying me that opportunity.)
First - let's define "consent / consentual" as applied to UO... Something like "There are potential consequences to performing this action. Knowing this, do you wish to perform this action." seems like a reasonable definition.
EVERY ACTION in UO is consentual.
If you go to Felucca, you consent to all the potential consequences.
If you join a Guild, you consent to all the potential consequences.
If you hunt in Doom, you consent to all the potential consequences.
If you interact with any other player, you consent to all the potential consequences.
If you want to go Trammel hunting in partnership with a Faction player, you consent to all the potential consequences.
If you ask a Factioneer for help, you consent to all the potential consequences.
You cannot accuse these changes of affecting your gameplay if you have already consented to the risk.
I not only replied, but exposed the fallacy of your arguments.
More misunderstanding. Felucca is not a PvP facet. It is a facet where the consequences to which you consent are different to the consequences you consent to in Trammel
You do understand that your guildmates and allies are free to kill/loot/rob you in Trammel, don't you?
Your gameplay cannot be negatively affected by consequences to which you have agreed.
If you wish to remain unaffected by the actions of other players, then play a solo game, and avoid all inter-player interractions. (I have no problem with you making this choice, which is the difference between us - I am happy for you to play the game you wish, but you seem to be denying me that opportunity.)
Are you saying that factions and guild warfare have no place in UO because they aren't evil enough?
The bolded underlined is the dead give away Tina, you do not know anything about me period yet you insist on trying so desperately to make everything about my failing, short comings etc. Play your cute little word games, I am singularly unimpressed. Why don't you just focus your .... abilities to reply to post, at least with me, on the subject and leave ME out of them. You might find it far more mentally challenging and actually improve your ability to contribute. It continues to astound me the people that believe that on an anonymous format such as an anonymous, online forum like this, that people choose to discuss issues NOT ON THE ISSUES but on the posters posting things, you know like your doing. I don't know, perhaps you think some how that we will get to know each other? Rest assured that will never happen ... ever. Not with you or anyone that post on these or any other boards. I have zero interest in any one of you, from a personal perspective. Undoubtedly you and others will take that as an insult. Pfeet it is just reality, the probabilities of us meeting or knowing each other in real life is 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 ergo why should I spend any energy thinking I know you or anything about you in real life, it is stupid I clearly can not and clearly never will. I am very much aware that a human being male or female aged 2 years old to 115 years old, probably living on Planet Earth is the one typing into a computer system that ends up as a message I may or may not choose to reply to. I only need to respect that there is probably a human behind the screen and do to my best ability to not intentionally harm them.
DD = Designer Dragon I will leave his real name unsaid, pheet if he haunts the boards he can say it himself.
He was the Original Lead Designer and, despite what others may think, reason UO became an instant hit when it was released. In many ways, he is a leader in the industry in terms MMORPG's and Community.
Uhm yeah Fluffy ok, Felluca is NOT a PvP facet, sure thing. Now you have a great day and put me on your ignore list as I doubt we play the same UO.
I am saying they are NOT tolerant of the kind of Evil that activates a community, that they are Trammelified, they are sterile.
If the entire Felluca Facet were into Guild Wars then yes that would work. The incentive to form Communities would come from the HUMAN INTERACTION of setting up alliances etc. But that is NOT how Felluca is, is it.
IF the entire Felluca Facet were into Factions, then Yes that would work. It would work then because each faction is the Evil that is required to activate the other Factions sense of Community. The reality is that Felluca is NOT that way.
In one sense THAT Facet wide Factions would be another representation of the Original UO. Perhaps in a sense it would have been the BETTER Original UO as there is great power in the perspective of belonging to a City, Defending the City and its inhabitants. How do you do this when the Cities population is Hiding else where? No, that does not mean go beat Trammels doors down to get them. It means to get them back to Felluca where they darn well belong. Perhaps you know the song Puff the Magic Dragon. What happened to Puff when Jackie came no more? Why Puff quietly slipped away. Perhaps you will get the analogy or perhaps you will not.
But from my perspective Factions is just another word for the "Capture the Flag" concept of Activities and as such stands very little chance of creating or maintaining a facet wide Community.
And certainly the Factions the Tweeners, knowingly or unknowingly, want is even more striped down and .... well highly .... I don't even have the word for it. So plain and simple it is a System of Convenience.
I apologize for not defining CoB.
CoB = Cross Roads of Britania. The original and arguably best UO Message board. Were all the OSI employees were actively posting.
Were all the fundamental structures of UO were formed through VERY SPIRITED threads that the OSI employees passionately debated the posters.
Your Chaos vs Order, Guild War Fare, Factions, Siege Perilous etc were all created from threads on CoB, with DD actively and passionately participating as an equal.
Were DD posted some IMMORTAL WORDS that I am sure he has NAILED to a wall for daily review - "Over my dead body will there be a PvP switch in UO", that was after I demosntrated how a PvP switch could work to his statement "A PvP switch is impossible in UO". This particular thread went for thousands of posts and was a direct effect of the Obscene and Destructive PK activities that were rampant at the time, that the GOOD PKR's (Laughs ok PvPr's) denied was going on that I mentioned in a previous post. Just for grins, I am 100% convinced that the makers, designers etc of Everquest took extremely good notes of the ideas, thoughts, pro's and con's from that thread as the Rule Sets for Everquest can be lock stock and barrel found in that thread. Some of the ideas, Separate Servers for PvP and PvM. On PvM servers Dueling were a person can challenge another, gets a notification that they have been challenged and must accept or decline or let it expire that by default is a decline. One declares oneself as .. well Red(PvP) or Blue(PvM) and neither could do any negative or positive action on the other.
The venerable Stratics was alive and well at the same time. For what ever the reasons CoB was where OSI (well DD) decided to hold Court.
Let me make this clear, if you think any of the core UO structures, concepts etc are of value, then you have DD to thank.
Hello???? You think that I'm saying that having kids who play UO is a failing or a shortcoming?? Wow. Just wow.
Actually, Enigma, I would say we are trying to paint you as a raging totalitarian who refuses to see the game as it IS, rather than demanding that it be the way YOU want it.
This is played out time and again by your rabid demand that Tram is and has always been devoid of PvP, completely and OBVIOUSLY ignoring the fact that is is not true. What would you have called Order/Chaos? Guild Wars? Inter-guild/alliance PvP?
It is things like THAT that make people completely discount the validity of your opinion. Add that to the fact that you like to claim your longevity with the game, yet if I was so inclined, I could EASILY pull many posts of yours showing that you left this game behind for years, and have not been back all that long. You are again painting a false picture of things, causing people to discount you as delusional. This is damage you are causing yourself!
By the way ... about every 3rd person I see in Tram is a PvPer pursuing trade, doing peerless, etc. This being the case, your assertion that allowing PvPers to invade Tram will twist and corrupt it with their foulness is a very obvious load of bull.
Next comes your claim that the, as you call them, "Tweeners" basically want Tram with consensual wars. You could not be further off base, to the extreme that it is laughable. These are simply people who want to play the WHOLE game in all its aspects and glory - something that the Developers obviously agree with being an option since they have not, in all the many, many years since Tram came along, attempted to make a permanent break between the two rulesets. They understand something that you don't - the PvPers, Non-PvPers, and "Tweeners" are ALL equally important to holding this game together.
Anyway, I am done with you. You are too irrational to truly have a meaningful debate or conversation with. You remind me of the rabid religious nut who refuses to see any perspective but their own brainwashing.
Oh, and by the way, regarding your attack on Tina ... that is rich, since she was one of the NAY votes, and actually agreed with you that faction fighting should not extend into Tram. There again you are showing how very twisted your mind has become on the subject, that you cannot even see someone who agrees with you staring you in the face.
This is played out time and again by your rabid demand that Tram is and has always been devoid of PvP, completely and OBVIOUSLY ignoring the fact that is is not true. What would you have called Order/Chaos? Guild Wars? Inter-guild/alliance PvP?
It is things like THAT that make people completely discount the validity of your opinion. Add that to the fact that you like to claim your longevity with the game, yet if I was so inclined, I could EASILY pull many posts of yours showing that you left this game behind for years, and have not been back all that long. You are again painting a false picture of things, causing people to discount you as delusional. This is damage you are causing yourself!
By the way ... about every 3rd person I see in Tram is a PvPer pursuing trade, doing peerless, etc. This being the case, your assertion that allowing PvPers to invade Tram will twist and corrupt it with their foulness is a very obvious load of bull.
Next comes your claim that the, as you call them, "Tweeners" basically want Tram with consensual wars. You could not be further off base, to the extreme that it is laughable. These are simply people who want to play the WHOLE game in all its aspects and glory - something that the Developers obviously agree with being an option since they have not, in all the many, many years since Tram came along, attempted to make a permanent break between the two rulesets. They understand something that you don't - the PvPers, Non-PvPers, and "Tweeners" are ALL equally important to holding this game together.
Anyway, I am done with you. You are too irrational to truly have a meaningful debate or conversation with. You remind me of the rabid religious nut who refuses to see any perspective but their own brainwashing.
Oh, and by the way, regarding your attack on Tina ... that is rich, since she was one of the NAY votes, and actually agreed with you that faction fighting should not extend into Tram. There again you are showing how very twisted your mind has become on the subject, that you cannot even see someone who agrees with you staring you in the face.
C
Cloak&Dagger
Guest
I never did care for bringing my chars to tram back when my question applies, and it has been lord only knows how many years since factions has been popular on the only shard I ever did play a faction char on, but simply wasn't all of the "negative" aspects of factions part of tram until recently? If not then carry on with your dandy little arguments here.
On topic I do have to agree and disagree (I have not voted but most likely would vote yes)
I agree because Non-faction players (aka artie hoards) do in fact affect the faction system greatly, but then I also disagree because I hunt with people in other factions on an almost daily basis (both in fel and tram) but eh I deal with it in fel so I could deal with it in tram it is just convenient that I don't have to in tram. (I would argue with all the rest of you but I got to lynks first post (dunno if he posted more or not) and decided this is a lost cause as far as arguing goes, and its not worth the effort. *shrugs*
On topic I do have to agree and disagree (I have not voted but most likely would vote yes)
I agree because Non-faction players (aka artie hoards) do in fact affect the faction system greatly, but then I also disagree because I hunt with people in other factions on an almost daily basis (both in fel and tram) but eh I deal with it in fel so I could deal with it in tram it is just convenient that I don't have to in tram. (I would argue with all the rest of you but I got to lynks first post (dunno if he posted more or not) and decided this is a lost cause as far as arguing goes, and its not worth the effort. *shrugs*
W
Whinemaker
Guest
I TRIED to SUMMARISE the thread a few posts ago so we can shift the problems back to FACTION, but I guess it's more FUN if we continued like this.
Thanks for the good entertainment though.
Thanks for the good entertainment though.
S
Scratch
Guest
how bout reds in fel too while we are at it since there is no non consentual pvp. reds come sit at the bank and can be just as safe as those in the enemy factions. the blues are always safe in tram.
faction gear should not be allowed to be worn in trammel. this would prevent exactly what the problem is. trammies wearing faction gear in tram and never go to fel at all after they get their gear.
or
faction players should be treated like reds and kept in fel all together. after all, they have warhorses that they can raise with no vet. pots for everything under the sun, enhanced "enhanced" bandaids, retaredly overpowered arties, and alliances with non faction guilds all for the price of stat loss for 20 mins. thats almost as cheap as the silver priced arties.
with a low consequence of be a trammy factioneer, its a wonder everyone isnt in a faction.
faction gear should not be allowed to be worn in trammel. this would prevent exactly what the problem is. trammies wearing faction gear in tram and never go to fel at all after they get their gear.
or
faction players should be treated like reds and kept in fel all together. after all, they have warhorses that they can raise with no vet. pots for everything under the sun, enhanced "enhanced" bandaids, retaredly overpowered arties, and alliances with non faction guilds all for the price of stat loss for 20 mins. thats almost as cheap as the silver priced arties.
with a low consequence of be a trammy factioneer, its a wonder everyone isnt in a faction.
S
Scratch
Guest
or better yet
how bout reds only can wear faction gear or even join factions...................................
this keeps the trammies from getting the gear and wearing it to fel which would also at the same time prevent faction fighting in trammel
problem solved
reds are the target of every gate hugger and house hider in fel
reds deserve the added bonuses of the gear not your average blueberries
how bout reds only can wear faction gear or even join factions...................................
this keeps the trammies from getting the gear and wearing it to fel which would also at the same time prevent faction fighting in trammel
problem solved
reds are the target of every gate hugger and house hider in fel
reds deserve the added bonuses of the gear not your average blueberries
In trammel there is no risk of ganks from non factioners so the battlefield is far more leveled for the less daring factioner if you expand the faction war to the trammel ruleset. You automatically reduce ganking as a result. You don't eliminate it but you limit it to factions only in that case.
As for the factioners not being able to be attacked in the trammel ruleset. I'm certain this has been conclusively proven already in this thread and assume you were asking me about the previous quesiton.
C
Cloak&Dagger
Guest
So I guess this post will be directly mostly at Omnius and Enigma.
Why don't we all agree Tram is for Consensual pvp, and then agree that Factions is a Consensual PvP system, no one is able to argue that Factions is a PVP system only, has nothing to do with pvm never has, and as such Joining a Faction makes it so you are choosing to pvp with out any Consequences to the opposing factioneers that kill you, and no consequence to you killing an opposing factioneer. These two points alone prove that factions in tram would not hurt the system, if you do not want to pvp do not join factions. If you want to pvp only in fel, then go to fel and go red and then you wont ever enter tram again and pretty much you derail the entire point of this thread. Tram is not "no pvp" this has been stated, it is consensual factions is a consensual system, sounds to me like they go together and no one can argue that they are the same type of "pvp system" as far as consensuality goes.
blah, why is everyone getting worked up over one person? -.-
Why don't we all agree Tram is for Consensual pvp, and then agree that Factions is a Consensual PvP system, no one is able to argue that Factions is a PVP system only, has nothing to do with pvm never has, and as such Joining a Faction makes it so you are choosing to pvp with out any Consequences to the opposing factioneers that kill you, and no consequence to you killing an opposing factioneer. These two points alone prove that factions in tram would not hurt the system, if you do not want to pvp do not join factions. If you want to pvp only in fel, then go to fel and go red and then you wont ever enter tram again and pretty much you derail the entire point of this thread. Tram is not "no pvp" this has been stated, it is consensual factions is a consensual system, sounds to me like they go together and no one can argue that they are the same type of "pvp system" as far as consensuality goes.
blah, why is everyone getting worked up over one person? -.-
Thank you for backing up my point. I knew that the response I made to enigma's 2 non flame oriented posts were spot on and your agreement with the many other agreements, be they direct or indirect prove my point.Cloak‡1293029 said:
So let it be written, so let it be done. Faction combat should be allowed to take place in the trammel rule set.
I tried to make sense of this thread, and work out where to clean it up. I confess I don't think I'm capable of the task, so I think the best thing to do is lock it..
oh, and as a closing comment, you don't need $$ to say 'ass', it's not filtered.
oh, and as a closing comment, you don't need $$ to say 'ass', it's not filtered.
- Status