Last Scroll(s) help

[Zy'ana]

My new warrior has

Anatomy -100
Chiv - 90
Healing - 100
Parry - 100
Resist - 100
Swords - 110
Tactics - 110

So i have 10 points to spare

Do i
1) Use a +10 anatomy
2) Buy a swords +15 and +15 tact
3) buy a swords +15 and train ana up to +15 instead of tact

This is just a char for solo hunting not to hard critters and tag along when im invited to champs/peerless etc

 

[Connor_Graham]

You get a 120 Swords scroll, drop Chiv to 70, then bump Parry up to 120 as well. You could also drop Resist by 10 and bump Anat up to 110 and really not notice any difference.

 

[Zy'ana]

Cant afford 120's :0)

 

[gmcbroom]

Can you do Rats? Got a Vermin talisman? If so, go to despise either solo or in a group and kill everything there. Bank your gold or loot and repeat... alot. Save your gold until you can get a 120 swords scroll. Or if you get really good actually get one in your pack at the conclusion of a Champ. Its what I'll be doing when my sampire is complete. I'm scrolled to 115 on swords, bushido, & parry so now I just have work RoT until I reach it and do spawn after spawn until i either have the money for the 120's or one falls into my lap. now lets go have fun.

 

[Setnaffa]

Save up for the parry and swords 120's.

Go with this:

120 Sword
120 Parry
100 Anat
100 Tactics
100 Resist
90 Heal
90 Chiv

I use that template on my Paladin and he rules in DOOM, Peerless, and Champ Spawns. He can actually solo the Vermin Spawn. Of course his equipment and stats have alot to do with that, but it all starts with his template.

You can save up for the scrolls in a week by clearing out one of the Succubi or both Daemons in the second level of the Fan Dancer's Dojo with a Demon Slayer and Bag of Sending.

 

[Ender]

Can you do Rats? Got a Vermin talisman? If so, go to despise either solo or in a group and kill everything there. Bank your gold or loot and repeat... alot. Save your gold until you can get a 120 swords scroll. Or if you get really good actually get one in your pack at the conclusion of a Champ. Its what I'll be doing when my sampire is complete. I'm scrolled to 115 on swords, bushido, & parry so now I just have work RoT until I reach it and do spawn after spawn until i either have the money for the 120's or one falls into my lap. now lets go have fun.

Of course this only works if you're not on a shard where the spawns are scriptcam'd constantly.

 

[Jesusislord]

120 parry is a waste of skill. Such a waste.. (Would be good for a Samurai)

Bump Chivalry. What people won't tell you, is that the higher the CHIVALRY and karma, the more effective your spells. If you don't believe me, go to test.

Raising Chivalry would do more for you than raising Parry. Defense Chance Increase is easy to come by, but you can't enhance Chivalry as easy.

120 Resist, that would be awesome, though.

If you put 5 more points in swords, don't bother putting 5 more in tactics. 100 tactics is plenty. In fact, It's easy to put that at 90, for the secondary moves and you lose 10% damage.. with chivalry and slayer weapon.. 10% might be 10 damage.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

My new warrior has

Anatomy -100
Chiv - 90
Healing - 100
Parry - 100
Resist - 100
Swords - 110
Tactics - 110

So i have 10 points to spare

Do i
1) Use a +10 anatomy
2) Buy a swords +15 and +15 tact
3) buy a swords +15 and train ana up to +15 instead of tact

This is just a char for solo hunting not to hard critters and tag along when im invited to champs/peerless etc

I would concur with what some others have stated.

1. Put the points into anatomy...raise that. You will heal for more while maximizing your damage a little bit.

2. Get the +15 swords scroll. So basically option 3 go with.

I can't say I concur with 120 parrying being a waste. Ever since I went to 120 parry I've not died to an archer. Not even once. Parry enhances your survivability for PvM and PvP.

I am with Setnaffa with most of what he said. People think only sampires, wammies and tamers rule Doom. Wrong. I played a chiv dexxer long before sampire was thought about and pretty much easily took care of Doom.

Use a similar setup, albeit not the same exact setup as Setnaffa. As kind of a side note, you can perform almost as well in every situation that a sampire warrior type can. AND...since you can excel in PvP as well (sampires and wraith warriors cannot), it is pretty much case closed.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

120 parry is a waste of skill. Such a waste.. (Would be good for a Samurai)

Bump Chivalry. What people won't tell you, is that the higher the CHIVALRY and karma, the more effective your spells. If you don't believe me, go to test.

Raising Chivalry would do more for you than raising Parry. Defense Chance Increase is easy to come by, but you can't enhance Chivalry as easy.

120 Resist, that would be awesome, though.

If you put 5 more points in swords, don't bother putting 5 more in tactics. 100 tactics is plenty. In fact, It's easy to put that at 90, for the secondary moves and you lose 10% damage.. with chivalry and slayer weapon.. 10% might be 10 damage.

I was speechless for a moment after reading this. The gain you get from chiv is in no way comparable to parry, 120 resist is not comparable to parry either. DCI does not do for you what parry does for you. aside from that any template will already take into account that you will have 45dci so saying its easy to come by is not really saying anything as its normally formulated into the template idea.

As for the original OP, have to agree with Diomedes Artega except you should count on eventually getting the 120 swords and parry, but for the time being his idea seems the most sound,as it answers your immediate use of the char and not the "long run".

 

[Connor_Graham]

120 parry is a waste of skill. Such a waste.. (Would be good for a Samurai)

Bump Chivalry. What people won't tell you, is that the higher the CHIVALRY and karma, the more effective your spells. If you don't believe me, go to test.

Raising Chivalry would do more for you than raising Parry. Defense Chance Increase is easy to come by, but you can't enhance Chivalry as easy.

120 Resist, that would be awesome, though.

If you put 5 more points in swords, don't bother putting 5 more in tactics. 100 tactics is plenty. In fact, It's easy to put that at 90, for the secondary moves and you lose 10% damage.. with chivalry and slayer weapon.. 10% might be 10 damage.

The OP is talking about PvM, not PvP, which is more of what you're describing here. Resist is not necessary above GM, if at all, on a PvM warrior template.

I'm not even going to go into the Parry. Suffice it to say that you're wrong.

Chivalry for a PvM char means EoO, Cons Wep, DF, Cleanse by Fire, and Remove Curse. None of these are affected by anything more than karma as far as duration and strength. All can be cast effectively with no more than 70-75 Chiv. Anything more than that is a waste of skill points.

 

[Setnaffa]

120 parry is a waste of skill. Such a waste.. (Would be good for a Samurai)

Bump Chivalry. What people won't tell you, is that the higher the CHIVALRY and karma, the more effective your spells. If you don't believe me, go to test.

Raising Chivalry would do more for you than raising Parry. Defense Chance Increase is easy to come by, but you can't enhance Chivalry as easy.

120 Resist, that would be awesome, though.

If you put 5 more points in swords, don't bother putting 5 more in tactics. 100 tactics is plenty. In fact, It's easy to put that at 90, for the secondary moves and you lose 10% damage.. with chivalry and slayer weapon.. 10% might be 10 damage.

I couldn't disagree more. 120 parry blocks 1 out of 3 hits. How could that ever be a waste of a skill?

The only Chiv spells most people use are EoO, CS, Remove Curse, and Sacred Journey. None of those are affected by higher chivalry except EoO, which will only cast successfully about 90% of the time at 90.

120 Resist in PvM? Sorry but that is wasted points above GM. Actually, resist is the skill I dumped when created my Samurai.

 

[Aibal]

120 parry is a waste of skill. Such a waste.. (Would be good for a Samurai)

Bump Chivalry. What people won't tell you, is that the higher the CHIVALRY and karma, the more effective your spells. If you don't believe me, go to test.

Raising Chivalry would do more for you than raising Parry. Defense Chance Increase is easy to come by, but you can't enhance Chivalry as easy.

120 Resist, that would be awesome, though.

If you put 5 more points in swords, don't bother putting 5 more in tactics. 100 tactics is plenty. In fact, It's easy to put that at 90, for the secondary moves and you lose 10% damage.. with chivalry and slayer weapon.. 10% might be 10 damage.

Wrong. 120 Parry will do more to help you avoid taking damage than any gains from chivalry. DCI isn't THAT easy to come by, but for the sake of discussion we'll assume it's maxed so that doesn't even enter into the equation. The chiv spells that are used really don't depend on chiv other than casting success...karma is FAR more important to their effect/duration. Finally, I only have one PvM warrior that runs with resist...the biggest "waste" of a skill would be to waste 120 points on it on a PvM character. GM is fine, and you can really run quite effectively without it at all.

 

[Obsidian]

Why is everyone recommending parry instead of bushido when you only have room for one skill or the other? I don't have the block chance tables handy, but I thought you had the same chance to block with 120 Bush & 0 Parry with a weapon (no shield) as you do with 120 Parry & 0 Bush (with sheild). I know there is a slight bonus to bush blocking with a 2-handed weapon. Seems to me perfection, evasion, lightning strike, and confidence make bush a better choice than parry for a warrior that also is trying to have 90ish resist, 90 healing, 65-70 chivalry, and just can't fit both bush and parry into a full template. Something like this:

120 Swords
120 Bushido
100 Anatomy
90 Healing
90 Tactics
90 Resist
70 Chiv
40 Parry?

I think the parry would help the block chance with Bush while carrying a weapon (no shield). Or you could put those 40 points into med to help with mana for specials. What do you all think or am I missing something?

-OBS-

 

[Ender]

Evasion is really useless without parry. Confidence would only be used for the health regen you get from activating it, until you get hit. Bushido is still nice without parry, but it's definitely more useful with it.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I don't have the block chance tables handy, but I thought you had the same chance to block with 120 Bush & 0 Parry with a weapon (no shield) as you do with 120 Parry & 0 Bush (with sheild).

120 Bush and 0 Parry = 5% chance to Parry

120 Parry and 0 Bush (w/Shield) = 35% chance to Parry

Bushido does not parry unless you actually have Parry. That's a big hole in your logic there. How would you expect to parry if you don't have Parry?

 

[Obsidian]

120 Bush and 0 Parry = 5% chance to Parry

120 Parry and 0 Bush (w/Shield) = 35% chance to Parry

Bushido does not parry unless you actually have Parry. That's a big hole in your logic there. How would you expect to parry if you don't have Parry?

Ok, makes sense. I got home from work and took a look at the parry & bushido equations. I thought they were more additive. I guess I am surprised the chance to block is the same with 240 skill points devoted to parry & bush with a 1-handed weapon than 120 skill points devoted to parry only with a shield.

So if you're going to carry a shield with parrying only, what does everyone carry? Seems like this might be a good opportunity to pull out that Sentinel's Guard or Blackthorn's Exemplar.

-OBSIDIAN-

 

[Diomedes Artega]

Ok, makes sense. I got home from work and took a look at the parry & bushido equations. I thought they were more additive. I guess I am surprised the chance to block is the same with 240 skill points devoted to parry & bush with a 1-handed weapon than 120 skill points devoted to parry only with a shield.

So if you're going to carry a shield with parrying only, what does everyone carry? Seems like this might be a good opportunity to pull out that Sentinel's Guard or Blackthorn's Exemplar.

-OBSIDIAN-

Why on earth would you want to pack a shield that carries a multitude of resists? I will just disarm you and then...beat you down to a pulp. I'm sure you yourself do not use those shields but...there is a reason they're sold. They're useless for PvP.

Well I myself was never one of those lucky people to own a 15 HCI and 15 DCI shield with FC 1. I own many, many, many different shields that are close to that.

Some of the time though I just use the Museum one. It has the annoying FC -1 but that is easily offset.

In FFXI the Samurai 侍 works the same way. While parry is a skill in of itself (separate skill), and Samurai 侍 is a job, parry works with the Sammy skills. The 侍 skills work in relation to parry with abilities than enhance the parry...much in the same way as UO by enhancing using 2 handed weapons. Consequently, unless you're going to build a template around the Samurai 侍, why bother adding bushido?

It just doesn't make sense unless you are going to utilize every ability that it can give you. And basically in my opinion...that starts at 100.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Ok, makes sense. I got home from work and took a look at the parry & bushido equations. I thought they were more additive. I guess I am surprised the chance to block is the same with 240 skill points devoted to parry & bush with a 1-handed weapon than 120 skill points devoted to parry only with a shield.

So if you're going to carry a shield with parrying only, what does everyone carry? Seems like this might be a good opportunity to pull out that Sentinel's Guard or Blackthorn's Exemplar.

-OBSIDIAN-

Depends on your template, suit idea and fighting style. personally for a pure paladin I would try to get a shield with fc 1 some dci/hci and maybe some resists if you could, at least dci and fc 1 should be the focus for a paladin so they can get 45dci and 4/6 casting.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Why on earth would you want to pack a shield that carries a multitude of resists? I will just disarm you and then...beat you down to a pulp. I'm sure you yourself do not use those shields but...there is a reason they're sold. They're useless for PvP.

Well I myself was never one of those lucky people to own a 15 HCI and 15 DCI shield with FC 1. I own many, many, many different shields that are close to that.

Some of the time though I just use the Museum one. It has the annoying FC -1 but that is easily offset.

In FFXI the Samurai 侍 works the same way. While parry is a skill in of itself (separate skill), and Samurai 侍 is a job, parry works with the Sammy skills. The 侍 skills work in relation to parry with abilities than enhance the parry...much in the same way as UO by enhancing using 2 handed weapons. Consequently, unless you're going to build a template around the Samurai 侍, why bother adding bushido?

It just doesn't make sense unless you are going to utilize every ability that it can give you. And basically in my opinion...that starts at 100.

this is pvm......so the shields could be fine, on a side note shields should not be disarmable now. Yup had to test that, not disarmable so it could be fine either way, depending on his other items.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

Depends on your template, suit idea and fighting style. personally for a pure paladin I would try to get a shield with fc 1 some dci/hci and maybe some resists if you could, at least dci and fc 1 should be the focus for a paladin so they can get 45dci and 4/6 casting.

Ah well I haven't disarmed anyone recently...so I should have tested that like you did.

That said, I guess my thinking has always been the same in terms of shield. To have FC if I needed it and then couple that with HCI and DCI. Rest of the suit has the mods and necessary setup I need.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Ah well I haven't disarmed anyone recently...so I should have tested that like you did.

That said, I guess my thinking has always been the same in terms of shield. To have FC if I needed it and then couple that with HCI and DCI. Rest of the suit has the mods and necessary setup I need.

Yea I agree with you on the use of shields, like in my previous post. So yes I recommend starting with a shield with fc 1 and at least dci, after that trying to hci then resist. that would be the order of importance for me on a paladin.

 

[Obsidian]

I got it... I guess I haven't been looking at shields for warriors in a long time. I forgot I could get HCI, DCI and FC 1 on a shield.

Only reason I thought the 51 total resist shields might be a good idea was that I could then replace a high resist runic piece with an artie that fills a void in mods on my suit. But I said that without realizing I could get other beneficial mods available on warrior shields.

Thanks for the inputs. I admit I had written off the parry-warrior as a viable template.

-OBSIDIAN-

 

[Diomedes Artega]

I got it... I guess I haven't been looking at shields for warriors in a long time. I forgot I could get HCI, DCI and FC 1 on a shield.

Only reason I thought the 51 total resist shields might be a good idea was that I could then replace a high resist runic piece with an artie that fills a void in mods on my suit. But I said that without realizing I could get other beneficial mods available on warrior shields.

Thanks for the inputs. I admit I had written off the parry-warrior as a viable template.

-OBSIDIAN-

I think it is just due to the fact that sampire and wraith form have dominated the threads lately. There are many ways to go about it for a straight-up paladin. Probably seems silly to most people, but it is still my favorite template after all this time.

 

[Obsidian]

I've been thinking about the pure paladin template and am having a hard time figuring out if I can maximixe damage in PvM without perfection from bushido. Can 100% DI, EOO, CW, and a slayer weapon without perfection running get you to the damage cap of 300%? I have been thinking of suit ideas also with a shield and like the possibilities. And having resist and healing on the template sound great. But if I can't kill the Doom bosses or champs then this isn't right for me. I don't PvP a lot... Typically only when my champs get raided or in guild PvP practice. So effective PvM is my priority, but it sure sucks to get owned in the final stages of the champ spawn you've worked nearly to completion.

I went back to Baghdaddy's formative post on his bush-warrior turned sampire. I know the whole concept has been fine-tuned much since then, but it appears he traded resist for bushido to get perfection bonuses.

-OBS-

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

the short answer is yes.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Can 100% DI, EOO, CW, and a slayer weapon without perfection running get you to the damage cap of 300%?

Yes. I believe it goes DI + Slayer = 200% + 50% (EoO) = 300% to simplify the equation.

But if I can't kill the Doom bosses or champs then this isn't right for me.

It can be done, but I think you'll find it's a lot harder, and takes a lot more time, much of it running away to heal.

I went back to Baghdaddy's formative post on his bush-warrior turned sampire. I know the whole concept has been fine-tuned much since then, but it appears he traded resist for bushido to get perfection bonuses.

He made quite a few changes since that thread that weren't posted in there also. That thread is pretty much outdated now for the most part. There are a few variations that he runs on the "standard" Sampire template, but I'll leave that to him to go into. Wouldn't want to give away any trade secrets given in confidence.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

I've been thinking about the pure paladin template and am having a hard time figuring out if I can maximixe damage in PvM without perfection from bushido. Can 100% DI, EOO, CW, and a slayer weapon without perfection running get you to the damage cap of 300%? I have been thinking of suit ideas also with a shield and like the possibilities. And having resist and healing on the template sound great. But if I can't kill the Doom bosses or champs then this isn't right for me. I don't PvP a lot... Typically only when my champs get raided or in guild PvP practice. So effective PvM is my priority, but it sure sucks to get owned in the final stages of the champ spawn you've worked nearly to completion.

I went back to Baghdaddy's formative post on his bush-warrior turned sampire. I know the whole concept has been fine-tuned much since then, but it appears he traded resist for bushido to get perfection bonuses.

-OBS-

The doom rooms are easy on a chivalry warrior. You...key word here, should not have any issues clearing the rooms easily. A major point that I WILL make is to pack a 50% dispel weapon (a fast one). That way you can get any revenants off you in a hurry.

Dark Father is as Connor pointed out. It DOES take longer and a bit more refining on your part in terms of tactics. But, haha...it can be done. Plus with healing...if you have a friend, 2 chiv-dexxers can kill anything just about.

Hitting the damage cap is easy.

PvP it takes GREAT weapons. But, you will be a pain in the butt to anyone you fight...if you know what you're doing. Weapons, gear, jewelry...everything imaginable I have for a paladin. It is a lot of fun in my opinion.