Input needed for my sampire

[Connor_Graham]

Theres no reason to miss that many times in a row, even if you needed to whirlwind or something not LS it doesn't mean you have to use it until everything else is dead before you can use LS again.

You're right, there is no reason to miss that many times, however, the RNG would beg to differ. No one that's played a dexxer in UO for any length of time can honestly say that they've never whiffed multiple times in a row and be telling the truth. We all know it happens, max HCI/LS or not.

You say LMC is more important than HCI, and the rest of us disagree for the simple fact that LMC affects one stat while HCI affects all 3. It's this simple fact that makes HCI more important than LMC in suit building. That's not to say that you can't play a Sampire effectively with your setup, merely stating that the more efficient, and easier because of it, setup is the one with the emphasis placed on HCI instead of LMC.

 

[Old Man of UO]

The real differences when it comes to a fully developed sampire:
Elf = +6% to base damage (which is not part of the 300% PVM damage cap)
Human = JOAT skills (invis potions take care of this for me)

For me, the damage increase caps the human JOAT for any warrior, not just sampires.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

With Resist instead of Anatomy, how much DI comes from JOAT Anat?

(I worked it out as 15 but that seems wrong/high)

 

[Old Man of UO]

With Resist instead of Anatomy, how much DI comes from JOAT Anat?

(I worked it out as 15 but that seems wrong/high)

None. And if there were a DI bonus from JOAT anatomy, it would only be 10. You need to re-figure.

*edit*
AHH... I see where you get the 15 from. DI from anatomy = (anatomy/2) +5.

You do not get a JOAT bonus from anatomy, however I do not know if you would get the +5 bonus at zero skill, which both races would get. The answer would be either none, or +5% for both races if anything does apply at zero skill. So essentially there is no race bonus at zero skill.

This is similar to the answer about what happens with 120 bushido and zero parry for a human with JOAT skill... there is no defense penalty, since JOAT is not calculated as real skill.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Why none?

Edit:
Actually I was getting the +5 from a formula I remembered Anat / 2 + 5, but the + 5 is only added if its over 100. So 10 would be right, still don't see why it would be none or same to both though? Surely humans 20 Anat = 10 DI?

 

[Old Man of UO]

Why none?

The JOAT is not calculated as real skill, but is counted for the ability to do certain things, such as casting low level spells, hiding, etc. It was explained some time back when the question was asked about the human JOAT parry skill and bushido.

But then, GOD should know this!

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I found that but it makes no mention of Anatomy and is very specific to Bushido and Parry, addressing the concern in the question that JOAT Bushido was affecting Parrying with a shield.

Also how would it apply to both Humans & Elfs? Surely it would only apply to humans?

Also I think saying 6% DI for being an elf isn't really accurate, when that DI is coming from strength which still caps out the same way on either race. If you put 150 strength on your elf and I put 150 strength on my human you don't have 6% DI on me do you. Even at the base cap of 125. Mana yes, but nothing else & as you and Lynk said as long as its over 40 theres no problem.

 

[Old Man of UO]

I found that but it makes no mention of Anatomy and is very specific to Bushido and Parry, addressing the concern in the question that JOAT Bushido was affecting Parrying with a shield.

Also how would it apply to both Humans & Elfs? Surely it would only apply to humans?

Also I think saying 6% DI for being an elf isn't really accurate, when that DI is coming from strength which still caps out the same way on either race. If you put 150 strength on your elf and I put 150 strength on my human you don't have 6% DI on me do you. Even at the base cap of 125.

The answer in general was that JOAT is not used in these types of calculations. To me, it did not show a specific exception to Parry and bushido, but was a generalization of how JOAT and skills work. And both races get the +5 anatomy bonus at zero skill. The part (anatomy/2) uses real skill, or in this case anatomy=0.

As far as the 6% DI for elves... How many skill points do you have on your sampire? Do you have 150 STR, 150 DEX and 10 mana? You max DEX first, or else the earlier argument about +20 mana applying to DEX still applies.

Whichever one you max as a sampire (usually DEX first) you would put the rest into STR (or visa versa Dex).

As I said before, I move the +20 mana gain from elf race into STR, AFTER I max out my dex at 150 (base cap 125). The +20 STR gives my elf 6% bonus in base damage. This argument goes no where because you can't have both DEX and STR at max (base cap of 125 each).

So yes, if we are talking about sampires and most warriors in general, the +20 mana would "usually" get moved into either DEX or STR. That would give you either extra damage or faster swing rate. Of course, you could argue that you want to maximize mana instead.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

The answer in general was that JOAT is not used in these types of calculations. To me, it did not show a specific exception to Parry and bushido, but was a generalization of how JOAT and skills work.

Oh but it does, see:

"Does the Jack of All Trades bonus affect the parry/bushido relationship?"

First of all, a few explanations:

Jack of All Trades: a human racial bonus that gives humans a bit of skill (+20) in everything. (This ONLY serves as a minor chance to succeed at untrained skills - it doesn't affect a skill at all once you train it past 20.)

Bushido and Parry: Bushido gives a bonus to your chance to parry with weapons, but reduces your chance to parry with a shield.

What the question is really asking is, does that +20 Bushido from JoAT reduce my chance to parry with a shield? And the answer is no - the JoAT bushido has no effect on your ability to parry whatsoever. Leurocian was particularly thorough with this one - JoAT was specifically designed not to have that effect, and it says so in the code itself, the actual scripts don't use that modifier, plus Leurocian wrote a test script just to make sure, and, sure enough, JoAT does not reduce your parry chance with a shield."

And both races get the +5 anatomy bonus at zero skill. The part (anatomy/2) uses real skill, or in this case anatomy=0.

Where are you getting that theres a +5 Anatomy bonus at 0 from?

As far as the 6% DI for elves... How many skill points do you have on your sampire?

720

Do you have 150 STR, 150 DEX and 10 mana?...

No, the base maximum is 255.

This argument goes no where because you can't have both DEX and STR at max (base cap of 125 each).

No but consider this:

Str 100 Base
Dex 125 Base
Int 30 Base

Add in the following items that are easy to build a generic sampire around:
totem, primer, gauntlets of nobility, RBC and you then have...

Str 129
Dex 125
Int/Mana 40

Add on a crimson and drink a str and dex pot for 21 each. That would make you 150/150/40 yes? So at this point being an elf would give you 20 mana only, no DI. You could substitute these items for M&S's/jackals or whatever but the point is the DI from elf is a myth that you can get on a human if you chose to.

 

[Old Man of UO]

That wasn't the only posting talking about JOAT skills, but I am not going to look it up. The +5 bonus for anatomy comes from the damage calculator. It is calculated as Anatomy Bonus = (anatomy/2) + 5.

Take the potions out of your calculations... they are not part of the max 150 stats. You can use potions after you get to 150 with armor, and don't forget the Rose of Trinsic! You need to rethink this.

I am tired and have a lot of work to do. Do whatever you want, you still have it wrong.

 

[gmcbroom]

Hi. All I can say is everyone should play this game their own way. If something doesn't work then tweeck it until you find something that does. If what works for you goes against popular opinion so be it. The is no need to justify you position. Besides I really like this game but I am aware that this is a game nothing more. Doing the math to justify ones opinion on how someone else plays this game is ultimately pointless. Just play it the way you see fit. Realize what works for one person does not always work for somebody else. Besides all this math is giving me a headache and this game isn't worth that. Lets just everyone play UO and leave the math out. Peace out.

 

[Old Man of UO]

... Besides all this math is giving me a headache and this game isn't worth that. Lets just everyone play UO and leave the math out. ...

But... but... I LIKE the math part!

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

The +5 bonus for anatomy comes from the damage calculator. It is calculated as Anatomy Bonus = (anatomy/2) + 5.

Damage Bonus % = anatomy / 2 (+ 5% if anatomy at 100.0 or higher)

Take the potions out of your calculations...

Why because they make you wrong?

they are not part of the max 150 stats.

Yes they are. In what way are they not? They add STR & DEX not mana or stam or is it hp or really something else like your half assed elf gets stam or di argument.

You can use potions after you get to 150 with armor

What would be the point 150 is the max.

and don't forget the Rose of Trinsic! You need to rethink this.

No need for the Rose of Trinsic. In what way do I need to rethink it. You're claiming Elf gives DI through Str and BS does it you can do the same on humans.

I am tired and have a lot of work to do. Do whatever you want, you still have it wrong.

Well everything I've said has been taken from official sources like the play guides FoF's stratics and you despite arguing with me all day over a personal preference have so far cited nothing official while on your crusade to argue with me that mana is really stam or no str in disguise.

Save the emote for yourself, you need it.

 

[Old Man of UO]

No no no... 150 is NOT the max you can have.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

No no no... 150 is NOT the max you can have.

Unless you've forgotten what we're talking about again (Strength equating to DI) then yeah it is.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Hmm... I think I understand what you are saying... I had to get "undressed" to see it. Okay... I have to think about the base Stats... the total doesn't really matter, and can be over 150.

So for a sampire, talking strictly the base stats are the same for human and elf:
STR - 115
DEX - 125
INT - 10

For an elf, that translates into
Str - 115
Stamina - 125
Mana - 30 (10 mana for a human)

So, I can have whatever I want for stat bonuses, but I see that there is no way to move the extra into STR, and you are right that it doesn't give you that 6% damage bonus. However, it does make you less dependent on INT bonus items... in effect as a human to make up the difference I was taking the stats from STR to INT, and that is where I got the 6% DI from.

Now talking about stat totals, stat bonus items and potions are a different story. I want either 150 stamina or 180 stamina for the next level of SSI benefit. I don't have enough to get to 180 stamina, so I instead drop it to a total of 150 and bring up my STR, giving me a damage increase, which I could not do without the 20 mana bonus. This gives me the 6% DI that I was talking about.

We are really approaching the argument from two different perspectives, and I now understand what you are saying. In my case because of the way I've adjusted the stats on my sampire, I do get the 6% more damage, but I now understand your point.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

*stuff*

Thank you. lol.