Input needed for my sampire

[Draxous]

Hi

I need some input on my suit... (it's entirely non-faction pieces.)

44%HCI
52%DCI (58% with the Twink Scim)
26%LMC
5MR
505 luck (with statue and perfection I'm over 2200 luck, hoping to eventually get it around 3000)

70/62/63/70/70 (in vamp form)

The character is a human (i prefer it this way... but realize I may optimize by going elf?)

stats (w/o suit) 100str 55int 100dex
stats with suit 118hp (117str) 71mana 117stam (110dex)

Weapon is a Twinkling Scimitar

HML 52%
HSL 48%
HLD 42%
DCI 6%
DI 40%

Character skills (currently working on this)

120swords
100tactics
120parry
120bushido
100anat
100necro
60chiv

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Now my question is for all you Sampire peeps out there... is there any (obvious) room for improvement in there that you can see?

Specifically, I haven't fell in love with this characters stats yet... suggestions?

 

[Connor_Graham]

I'd go elf, drop some Int and max Dex out for sure. You need to get up to as close to 150 as you can, especially using Swords weps.

 

[Draxous]

The twinks weapons speed is 2.5s... at 80dex I should be swinging at cap...? Shouldn't I?

I also have a battle axe, I'm going to test out once the chars done...

HML 57%
HSL 50%
Fire Elm Slayer
FC 1
SSI 30% (Swings at 2.45s)
DI 40%

Whirlwind should be fun... =O


Also, I'm hesitating on switching to elf because I also PvP on this char (he is a sammy dexer)

 

[Connor_Graham]

The twinks weapons speed is 2.5s... at 80dex I should be swinging at cap...? Shouldn't I?

At 80 Dex you'd be swinging at 2.0s. At 90 it would be 1.75s. There's no SSI on the twink you show above. Any damage and you'd be dead in the water, and on the floor.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Imo...

Stay human.
HCI on the suit is pointless, Lightning Strike is 50 HCI.
DCI over 45 is pointless as nothing in PvM has HLD. (Though I've just remembered you play Siege so I guess thats why)
LMC I'd want over 30.
MR is fine.
With no SSI on the Twinkling Scimitar you need 150+ Stamina to swing at the cap.
With suit 100 str, 150+ stam, rest in int is fine.

 

[Draxous]

Imo...

Stay human.
HCI on the suit is pointless, Lightning Strike is 50 HCI.
DCI over 45 is pointless as nothing in PvM has HLD. (Though I've just remembered you play Siege so I guess thats why)
LMC I'd want over 30.
MR is fine.
With no SSI on the Twinkling Scimitar you need 150+ Stamina to swing at the cap.
With suit 100 str, 150+ stam, rest in int is fine.

This character of mine is on Atlantic actually (I play both shards.)

Wanted over 45DCI to negate the penalty from divine fury... (I believe it's -10DCI? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong)

HCI I could easily swap out...

I suppose it's settled then... I'll be pushing dex to 125 which will give me 135dex and 142stam (w/o chugging Greater Agility) If that doesn't suffice, I'll go elf.

Maybe instead of HCI, I'll go bracelet of health for the HPR?

Thoughts?

=/

 

[Playhardgopro]

If you can fit in the Bracer of Health, then I assume you are using armour peices with DCI to hit 45?

If so, then better to find a 15 DCI bracelet and swap a DCI armour piece for one with +8 stamina and some lmc?

 

[Connor_Graham]

Maybe instead of HCI, I'll go bracelet of health for the HPR?

I wouldn't. HCI is included in the suggested Sampire suits because of the fact that you normally don't have Resist on the template, so when you get mana drained or mana vamped you lose the ability to use LS, thus losing your HCI if you don't have any on the suit. Then it comes back to if you can't hit, you can't leech. If you can't leech, you die.

 

[RichDC]

I wouldn't. HCI is included in the suggested Sampire suits because of the fact that you normally don't have Resist on the template, so when you get mana drained or mana vamped you lose the ability to use LS, thus losing your HCI if you don't have any on the suit. Then it comes back to if you can't hit, you can't leech. If you can't leech, you die.

Also, when you need to whirlwind you have no HCI from Lightning stirke...so those LL are gonna get nasty if you cant hit the DF!

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Yes I think it's -10 DCI, +10 HCI, +10 DI from Divine Fury.

Going Elf doesn't do anything for Stamina so not sure what you meant. The extra 20 mana from being Elf doesn't matter imo as Sampires aren't intended to burn all their mana.

Very little in PvM has over 100 Wrestling & none of it has DCI, so with 120 Skill & HLD you don't miss often if at all. Though mine all have Resist on the template so I don't die to stupid things like Mana Vamp or Blood Oath. Even if you were Mana Vamped, you're not going to die before you hit again and with decent LMC LS is only 5ish? mana. Whirlwind is also tiny mana cost.

I wouldn't bother with HPR. I'd go for Damage Increase next.

 

[RichDC]

Very little in PvM has over 100 Wrestling & none of it has DCI, so with 120 Skill & HLD you don't miss often if at all.

Do you seriously believe this??

Lets take a few examples of commonly fought sampire foes:

Paroxy 120 wrestle
Dreadhorn 110+(havent lored one recently)
Lady mel 105+
Travesty110(before copy)
Swoop 140
Dark Father 120

Any more?

Edit: And its -15%dci from divine fury

 

[Old Man of UO]

...
Going Elf doesn't do anything for Stamina so not sure what you meant. The extra 20 mana from being Elf doesn't matter imo as Sampires aren't intended to burn all their mana...

Well, I don't agree with this part of what you said.

Elf race does indeed add +20 to stamina. Sure, it comes as +20 mana, but that lets you drop your INT by 20 and use it as dex. And there are many times you burn all of your mana as a sampire. It's not purposely done, but happens when you don't get honor in, get mana vamped, etc. Regardless of how, it does happen, especially when you go solo.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Do you seriously believe this??

Lets take a few examples of commonly fought sampire foes:

Paroxy 120 wrestle
Dreadhorn 110+(havent lored one recently)
Lady mel 105+
Travesty110(before copy)
Swoop 140
Dark Father 120

Any more?

Edit: And its -15%dci from divine fury

You beat me to it, Rich.

 

[Draxous]

Yes I think it's -10 DCI, +10 HCI, +10 DI from Divine Fury.

Going Elf doesn't do anything for Stamina so not sure what you meant. The extra 20 mana from being Elf doesn't matter imo as Sampires aren't intended to burn all their mana.

Very little in PvM has over 100 Wrestling & none of it has DCI, so with 120 Skill & HLD you don't miss often if at all. Though mine all have Resist on the template so I don't die to stupid things like Mana Vamp or Blood Oath. Even if you were Mana Vamped, you're not going to die before you hit again and with decent LMC LS is only 5ish? mana. Whirlwind is also tiny mana cost.

I wouldn't bother with HPR. I'd go for Damage Increase next.

Divine Fury replenishes your stamina...


My template is designed so I can have resist if I decide to fight monsters like the DF

120swords
100tactics
120parry
120bushido
100anat (or 100resist)
100necro
60chiv

 

[Draxous]

Edit: And its -15%dci from divine fury

Thank you!

I will incorporate that into my suit... =)

 

[RichDC]

My only suggestion would be to drop you int by 15ish points and put them in dex, also you will need SSI on your weaps. I understand using refresh pots and divine fury but its always best to have high ssi.

Also check the link for SS on weaps.

http://users.lmi.net/~noodle/netathene/guilds/Posts/

 

[Draxous]

If you can fit in the Bracer of Health, then I assume you are using armour peices with DCI to hit 45?

If so, then better to find a 15 DCI bracelet and swap a DCI armour piece for one with +8 stamina and some lmc?

Kind of...

My jewels (both) have both HCI and DCI on them... I just know I already have the pieces I need to swap out... but reading the stuffs ppl are posting, I think I'll keep it.

 

[RichDC]

Kind of...

My jewels (both) have both HCI and DCI on them... I just know I already have the pieces I need to swap out... but reading the stuffs ppl are posting, I think I'll keep it.

Your suit is pretty much set, but just looking back over it again, you do want to find that extra 4%LMC somewhere.

 

[Draxous]

My only suggestion would be to drop you int by 15ish points and put them in dex, also you will need SSI on your weaps. I understand using refresh pots and divine fury but its always best to have high ssi.

Yeah... I'm pushing dex to 125 (135dex and 142stam w/o chugging GA pots)

I'll also be going elf which will give me 66mana... I may drop it to 61mana and put 5 points into str yet, but I don't know for sure.


I really wanted SSI on the weapon, but I didn't get lucky enough yet. Over the course of the next couple weeks, I'll probably finish up some bods and burn a few hammers to see if I can get lucky.

Although, I'll probably be burning the hammers on leafblades rather than twinks (feint is just too damn good imo)

I also have 120fencing stoned and ready for this char whenever... I'm just using swords because of the weapons I currently have.


I've been soloing stuff with my archer wammy and tamer mage combo... (3000+ luck gives me uber loots) but, I've had this character just about finished for years now and figured I'd top him off and see how he plays... SO... here I am seeking advice

 

[Draxous]

Kind of...

My jewels (both) have both HCI and DCI on them... I just know I already have the pieces I need to swap out... but reading the stuffs ppl are posting, I think I'll keep it.

Your suit is pretty much set, but just looking back over it again, you do want to find that extra 4%LMC somewhere.

I'll look for a brace with HCI/DCI and LMC tonight (my brace currently doesn't have LMC)

Should be able to do it =()

tks tks

 

[RichDC]

Not a flame by the way, i love it when PvPers need trammy help. Makes me feel all warm inside lol

PvP tamers are the best!!!Some of them have no idea what makes a good pet!!!

Polish him of, good fun!! get a discorder and do the same combo but with the sampire tank and a beetle...youll drop stuff so much faster!!!

 

[Connor_Graham]

I'll also be going elf which will give me 66mana... I may drop it to 61mana and put 5 points into str yet, but I don't know for sure.

You can actually do quite well with around 45 mana, which would free up quite a few points to put into both Dex and Str.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Do you seriously believe this??

Any more?

& where is the DF, in the gauntlet. & the other 5 rooms in the gauntlet are all under 100. So is all the stuff the DF spawns, so missing a hit isn't likely, even when you do miss its not a case of dying because of it.

Some peerless are 120 yes, parox is but then can he mana vamp? No so running out of mana for LS isn't going to happen =/.

Most/all? named stuff is since it got beefed up.

All champion spawn bosses are under 100. Hell Serado is 70's.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Elf race does indeed add +20 to stamina. Sure, it comes as +20 mana, but that lets you drop your INT by 20 and use it as dex.

Yes but as base stats are capped at 125 thats not going to help reach 150+, which is what was being talked about.

 

[RichDC]

The dark father is going to be the one where you most need to hit him every time!

You miss one hit on him and the LL/RC/him will destroy you in 1.25s flat!

Even with HLD you need to hit and for the majority, a 50-60%hit rate isnt high enough. A sampire cannot afford to miss!

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Just been in KR Divine is doing -20 DCI, +10 HCI/SSI/DI. (& stam replenish obv)

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

The dark father is going to be the one where you most need to hit him every time!

You miss one hit on him and the LL/RC/him will destroy you in 1.25s flat!

Even with HLD you need to hit and for the majority, a 50-60%hit rate isnt high enough. A sampire cannot afford to miss!

Never happened to mine. But if thats your experience of it fair enough.

 

[Connor_Graham]

& where is the DF, in the gauntlet. & the other 5 rooms in the gauntlet are all under 100. So is all the stuff the DF spawns, so missing a hit isn't likely, even when you do miss its not a case of dying because of it.

Some peerless are 120 yes, parox is but then can he mana vamp? No so running out of mana for LS isn't going to happen =/.

Most/all? named stuff is since it got beefed up.

All champion spawn bosses are under 100. Hell Serado is 70's.

You can and will run into streaks where, even at 120 weapon skill, you will miss many times in a row. This would be compounded if you were depending on Whirlwind and had no HCI, and would likely result in death due to no leeching. It is for this reason, along with Mana Vamp, that HCI is included in the list of properties needed for a Sampire, although it's not as high on the list as DCI or DI. A Sampire with HCI will do much better survival wise with HCI than without.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

You can and will run into streaks where, even at 120 weapon skill, you will miss many times in a row. This would be compounded if you were depending on Whirlwind and had no HCI, and would likely result in death due to no leeching. It is for this reason, along with Mana Vamp, that HCI is included in the list of properties needed for a Sampire, although it's not as high on the list as DCI or DI. A Sampire with HCI will do much better survival wise with HCI than without.

Sure. I just don't prioritze it over LMC, DCI or DI.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Sure. I just don't prioritze it over LMC, DCI or DI.

Being able to hit more often, which results in more leeching of hp's, stam, and mana, is more important than LMC. I have a grand total of 8 LMC on my suit, yet only run out of mana when I hit a really bad streak that I don't score a hit. Those streaks are reduced because of the high DCI that I have. If I took LMC over the DCI, I might have a slightly higher amount of mana, but would be losing out on the stamina and life. I'll take 3 leech types over a slight improvement on mana usage any day.

 

[Aibal]

Sure. I just don't prioritze it over LMC, DCI or DI.

Interesting, because I'm over on DCI, right at 45 HCI, and have very little LMC (13 or 14 I think) with 96 DI and I do quite well. You'll get the LMC bonus for having three weap skills at 120 level as well (is that 10%?). I don't know, I'm probably wrong but I haven't found LMC to be THAT big of an issue for me personally, I suppose others have different results.

 

[RichDC]

Interesting, because I'm over on DCI, right at 45 HCI, and have very little LMC (13 or 14 I think) with 96 DI and I do quite well. You'll get the LMC bonus for having three weap skills at 120 level as well (is that 10%?). I don't know, I'm probably wrong but I haven't found LMC to be THAT big of an issue for me personally, I suppose others have different results.

I kninda agree, Most of my weaps tend to have over 50HML so LMC isnt that big of a deal so long as im hitting.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Yes but as base stats are capped at 125 thats not going to help reach 150+, which is what was being talked about.

SUURRRRE... right... that's not what you said. What does base stats capped at 125 have to do with your final mana/ stamina/ HP anyway?

The extra +20 mana does matter for a sampire. It lets you adjust your other stats and add on stat bonus items for a total of +20 stats overall that you can't get in human form.

 

[RichDC]

SUURRRRE... right... that's not what you said. What does base stats capped at 125 have to do with your final mana/ stamina/ HP anyway?

The extra +20 mana does matter for a sampire. It lets you adjust your other stats and add on stat bonus items for a total of +20 stats overall that you can't get in human form.

I hate you...Now i gotta go do the bleeding human-elf quest!

 

[Lynk]

I'm on the same page as most here, LMC is really a non-issue with a sampire. I think I have a total of 40 mana and I have never had any mana problems.

I don't think HCI is as important as some do, but I think it's a good idea to work it into the suit if possible. I don't really do much with my sampire other than dread horn, so I never really have a need for whirlwind/momentum strike.

My list goes DCI/DI/Stam Inc.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

What does base stats capped at 125 have to do with your final mana/ stamina/ HP anyway?

Because if you're trying to get 150+ stamina you would likely start with 125 base dex, so dropping your 20 elf int into dex can't happen =/.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Being able to hit more often, which results in more leeching of hp's, stam, and mana, is more important than LMC..

LS'ing as many hits as possible gives plenty enough HCI and the chance of the extra damage from critical hits directly affects the leeches.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Because if you're trying to get 150+ stamina you would likely start with 125 base dex, so dropping your 20 elf int into dex can't happen =/.

Yep, you do that first then next you add the extra stat points into STR for extra damage and carrying capacity. Like Lynk said, you only really need 40 mana if you have a really good weapon.

My stats as Elf
HP/Stam/Mana = 126/150/40
STR/DEX/INT = 133/136/10


My stats as Human
HP/Stam/Mana = 126/150/20
STR/DEX/INT = 133/136/10

Which would you rather have? 20 mana as a human or 40 mana as an elf? Or would you lower your STR to increase your INT? Elf wins. God wannabe loses.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

You said this:

"Elf race does indeed add +20 to stamina. Sure, it comes as +20 mana, but that lets you drop your INT by 20 and use it as dex."

Now you're saying that you don't do that at all and you put it in STR. Which AGAIN doesn't help you get 150+ stamina.

Being an Elf in no way helps you get stamina over 150.

 

[Draxous]

Being able to hit more often, which results in more leeching of hp's, stam, and mana, is more important than LMC..

LS'ing as many hits as possible gives plenty enough HCI and the chance of the extra damage from critical hits directly affects the leeches.

He's saying... that if you take fighting the dark father for example, that you won't be doing LS, you'll be doing whirlwind to kill of the spawn that he generates...

having low HCI will kill you against this monster.

And I agree...

 

[Old Man of UO]

You said this:

"Elf race does indeed add +20 to stamina. Sure, it comes as +20 mana, but that lets you drop your INT by 20 and use it as dex."

Now you're saying that you don't do that at all and you put it in STR. Which AGAIN doesn't help you get 150+ stamina.

Being an Elf in no way helps you get stamina over 150.

You are just being obtuse. I also said " The extra +20 mana does matter for a sampire. It lets you adjust your other stats and add on stat bonus items for a total of +20 stats overall that you can't get in human form."

It's not just about stamina, it's the total amount of stats that matters, letting you adjust ALL stats as needed. Depending on what stat bonus items you are wearing, that is a VERY nice thing to do.

You can run a successful sampire as a human... no one is saying you can't. But the +20 mana bonus for an elf outweighs the JOAT advantages of a human.

 

[Old Man of UO]

He's saying... that if you take fighting the dark father for example, that you won't be doing LS, you'll be doing whirlwind to kill of the spawn that he generates...

having low HCI will kill you against this monster.

And I agree...

Ya, I agree too. I think DCI is more important, but I can't imagine running a sampire without as much HCI as I can get. As an aside, if you get in a crowd and can't hit the boss, whirlwind or momentum strike an easier monster next to it.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

He's saying... that if you take fighting the dark father for example, that you won't be doing LS, you'll be doing whirlwind to kill of the spawn that he generates...

having low HCI will kill you against this monster.

And I agree...

I know he is, and having done it I don't agree.

There are 3 spots in doom where you can block out the other spawn.
You have bushido & parry so the other spawn rarely hits you anyway.
You can evade. (you can evade longer than I can because of the tact/anat bonus)
You have an advantage over the DF even when not LS'ing because of HLD.
You can cut bones.
You get a damage bonus with whirlwind + bushido based on the number of targets you hit, theres also nothing to stop you targeting the spawn with the whirlwind.
Momentum strike.
So with all that into consideration the few whirlwinds/momentums that it takes to kill the other spawn even if you did miss isn't going to kill you.

I don't see how you can think that dying to not hitting every swing on this template is normal.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

You are just being obtuse. I also said " The extra +20 mana does matter for a sampire. It lets you adjust your other stats and add on stat bonus items for a total of +20 stats overall that you can't get in human form."

It's not just about stamina, it's the total amount of stats that matters, letting you adjust ALL stats as needed. Depending on what stat bonus items you are wearing, that is a VERY nice thing to do.

You can run a successful sampire as a human... no one is saying you can't. But the +20 mana bonus for an elf outweighs the JOAT advantages of a human.

I'm not being obtuse, I was talking about stamina because he was talking about it, or rather he was talking with Connor about wether his weapon is swinging at the cap. You then said being an elf helps it, which it doesn't. Yes it does help stats overall but that wasn't what I was discussing with him.

& I disagree that the 20 mana outweighs JOAT. As its very rare to run out of mana, at least in my experience. The additional carrying capacity you mentioned, humans have anyway as well as some base regens, the ability to hide, the ability to use low levels spells such as teleport, attunement, renewal, natures furys & tracking. What can an elf do? Burn 20 more mana and see in the dark, well thanks but I can do that anyway.
Obviously I don't use all of them in doom, but then I use my characters for more than just that.

 

[Connor_Graham]

LS'ing as many hits as possible gives plenty enough HCI and the chance of the extra damage from critical hits directly affects the leeches.

Unless you're using weapon specials or other Bushido spells instead of LS. If you don't have decent HCI then, then you're not going to be hitting as often as you should be. There are quite a few situations where specials will be used over LS, Doom and champ spawns to name a couple.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Unless you're using weapon specials or other Bushido spells instead of LS. If you don't have decent HCI then, then you're not going to be hitting as often as you should be. There are quite a few situations where specials will be used over LS, Doom and champ spawns to name a couple.

I agree, but it doesn't mean the instant death of your character just on the off chance you miss a swing.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I agree, but it doesn't mean the instant death of your character just on the off chance you miss a swing.

It does if you miss 5 or 6 times straight, which we all know does happen more often than we'd like. Having high HCI cuts down on how often those streaks will happen, plus gives you higher hit chance when using something other than LS, as I've already mentioned.

IMO (and everyone else's here), which you're determined to say otherwise, HCI is more important than LMC. You're obviously not going to admit differently, and the rest of us know better, so there's no point in discussing it any further. The OP has already seen the benefit of HCI over LMC, so my job is done here.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Theres no reason to miss that many times in a row, even if you needed to whirlwind or something not LS it doesn't mean you have to use it until everything else is dead before you can use LS again. You can alternate.

I state my preferences in a straight forward way and even discuss them in a civilized mannor even when those questioning them aren't being civil. I haven't claimed its the only way to do it, I just claimed it was my opinion as I've said several times. I don't care wether you agree with it or not. Had the OP said post agreeable suggestions I would have waited until you had all posted and just said 'yeah that must be it' but I doubt that would offer much insight. Not that you sound particularly open to insight as you've already concluded your opinion is right and the only possible way of doing it. I post my suggestions based on what I've experienced. I've solod peerless, I've solod doom. Do I die when I miss, not usually. Though I do sometimes alter my weapons, template suits to try new things sometimes their better sometimes their worse but at least I know first hand what works for me. And if someone asks then I'll offer my opinion as you all offer yours.

 

[Old Man of UO]

...& I disagree that the 20 mana outweighs JOAT. As its very rare to run out of mana, at least in my experience. The additional carrying capacity you mentioned, humans have anyway as well as some base regens, the ability to hide, the ability to use low levels spells such as teleport, attunement, renewal, natures furys & tracking. What can an elf do? Burn 20 more mana and see in the dark, well thanks but I can do that anyway.
Obviously I don't use all of them in doom, but then I use my characters for more than just that.

And don't forget, that extra 20 points in STR (from moving the extra mana to STR) gives you +6% damage increase and increase in hitoints.

The rest of the JOAT you mentioned is nice, but honestly you don't use those skills very often, if ever. The only one that I really miss is the ability to hide in a dungeon... which sometimes takes 5 minutes before you are successful with just the JOAT skill. I'll take the +20 mana.

It's a personal preference... you can play either way and still be successful. I think the elf race does better for a sampire.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

The rest of the JOAT you mentioned is nice, but honestly you don't use those skills very often, if ever.

Oh I do, mainly in Fel, the ability to teleport on a Dexxer is very handy. Its not entirely relavent to this thread but as my characters usually have to go everywhere its something worth having and unlike taming a cu I wouldn't just 'dip' human for fel then return elf. (other way round for cus obviously)

The only one that I really miss is the ability to hide in a dungeon... which sometimes takes 5 minutes before you are successful with just the JOAT skill. I'll take the +20 mana.

It's a personal preference... you can play either way and still be successful. I think the elf race does better for a sampire.

Yeah, being able to hide is useful.