Proof That EA/Mythic Doesn't Care About New Players

[NewThunder]

They have not commented/have no desire to fix the "bug" where you are given the choice of a starting city, yet are forced into New Haven (On prodo) and Britain (on Siege/Mugen).

Actually this is proof they CARE ABOUT new players. New Players should be started in a location where they can be provided with a tutorial quest, oh that is the way it currently happens for new accounts. Not that I encourage it but is you use the KR client and start a new char you do not get the city option, you start in New Haven. All this proves is that EA has not sepnt resources to remove the starting city screen from the classic client. If you really think this issue is the one that prevents new players from playing UO ... , well I can't really complete that statement without violating the ROC of Stratics.

 

[thelust6]

Surley for a *new player* starting off in New Haven, a city geared towards exploring game mechanics, developing skills and learning the basics of the game is a good idea, even if it is a left over bug, maybe it should stay this way for the benefit of *drum role* new players. Oh and on a side note I can't ever recall seeing a known pvp'r on my shard (Europa) offering pvp lessons in New Haven, best to let new peeps explore the choices in game that are available themselves, from a comfortable starting point (Makes sense to me).

 

[D'Amavir]

no, you just misunderstood what I was saying.

and have you been to any of the old starting towns lately? they're ghost towns. No matter what play style a person has, they'll be unlikely to run into anyone in a lot of them.

Again, you are confusing cause and effect. New Haven has people all the time. Why? Are all those veteran players running the new player quests? Or do they gather there because its the place that new players pop into the game and they want to be there to help them or recruit them?

Now, in your mind those people would probably still stand around New Haven even if it wasn't the only starting town for new characters. But, in my mind, having 3 or 4 starting towns for new characters to choose from based on their play style would allow groups of each play style to gather in the town matching their style and 'help' or 'recruit' those new players that are interested in the same style.

As it stands now, New Haven is either the number one hang out spot for multiple play styles or its a ghetto that people don't want to hang out in because of all the conflicting play styles gathered there. Some people love hanging out there while others hate going there. There is a better way to handle 'starting towns' in a way that supports the various play styles AND makes sense for new players. Right now, the process is dumb and it makes the developers look dumb.

"Pick your starting town"

"Ok, I pick Britain."

"Ok, here you are in New Haven."

"But I picked Britain."

"And?"

"But..."

"What?"

I didn't pick New Haven."

"And?"

"Why did you even make me pick if you were just going to ignore what I picked?"

"Because we can!" Now, for your next character, pick your starting town"

"But...."

"Shut up and pick so we can ignore your pick and toss you into New Haven anyway!"

Right off the bat any new players will just have a bad taste in their mouths about the mentality of the people running the game. Sure, taking away the 'pick a town' part will eliminate that. But, there is still a better way to both cater to multiple play styles AND encourage and support new players.

 

[Belanos/Icicle]

and why would a new player care if he starts in Britain or not? do you really think a new player would notice? if a player wants to go to Britain or Trinsic, theres a convenient moongate for them to go through in New Haven. But right now Britain and Skara Brae are the only starting towns near a moongate, and not even Britain on every shard. How long do you think a person would wander around Trinsic or Minoc or whatever, not seeing a single person and having no idea how to get out of the town, before just giving up?

Veterans go to New Haven because its 1, the new player city, and 2, its a convenient town with every shop you might need. Its a rare day that you see someone in Minoc.

 

[D'Amavir]

and why would a new player care if he starts in Britain or not? do you really think a new player would notice? if a player wants to go to Britain or Trinsic, theres a convenient moongate for them to go through in New Haven. But right now Britain and Skara Brae are the only starting towns near a moongate, and not even Britain on every shard. How long do you think a person would wander around Trinsic or Minoc or whatever, not seeing a single person and having no idea how to get out of the town, before just giving up?

Veterans go to New Haven because its 1, the new player city, and 2, its a convenient town with every shop you might need. Its a rare day that you see someone in Minoc.

Are you intentionally not getting the point or do you really not see it? IF a new player sees 'Pick a town' only then no, they don't care. If they see "Pick such and such town if you are interested in such and such play style" then, unless they are intentionally being daft too, they would have more understanding of what their choice means.

Now, even though you don't follow the logic of that so far, I will move to the next part of that. IF veteran pvp'ers or pvm'ers or rp'ers that are actually interested in helping and recruiting new players know that new players interested in the same play style as them are most likely to pop up at such and such town, they will, as we have seen with New Haven, begin to frequent that specific town more often. Logic is all it really is. Is it a perfect plan? No. But its surely better than what's in place now.

People go where the people are. If ALL new characters start in New Haven, logic tells us that ALL people interested in being right there when new players pop into the game will also go to New Haven. But, if there are towns based on play style that new players can go to, logic (I know, logic on Stratics is frowned upon) tells us that those same people interested in being around the place where new players pop into the game will be there.

Again, I think you are confusing cause and effect. But I can see that saying that a million times won't make you understand that. But, I will say it anyway.

The bottom line is that the current system is illogical and makes the developers look dumb. And, unless looking dumb and confusing players is what the goal is, it needs to be addressed. One last little explanation via example for how this current way is bad for new players.

New Player buys game (as if that will happen) based on their friend telling them it was fun and creates a character. They pick Britain as their starting town and gets in game to explore for a few until their friend gets on ICQ. Then, the friend gets on ICQ.

"Hey, I created a character. I am in Britain now so come hang out with me."

"Ok, be right there" several minutes pass "I can't find you in Britain. Where are you there?"

"I am standing by the bank right now."

"Ok. Be right there." several minutes pass "I checked both banks and I can't find you."

"Well, I am standing by an NPC called a banker. Isn't that a bank?"

"Should be. Let me check again." several minutes pass "Still nothing. Are you sure you are in Britain ?"

"Yeah, I made sure to pick that as my starting town since you said they had a cool bank design. "

"Oh, crap. I forgot that the developers haven't fixed that yet. You are really in New Haven. I will be right there."

"Well, that's dumb. But, that's ok. I have to bail now. I will log back in tomorrow and we can hang out. "

"Ok. Later. "

 

[kelmo]

I believe Mythic cares. EA... Well, they gave us Mythic.

 

[Rainforest]

1) To most of the posters in this thread: Sweeney isnt talking about whether EA should allow new players to start from other cities, he/she is saying that... since they start everyone from new haven, the option to choose your "starting" city shouldnt be there. It's a menu/interface issue.

2)To Sweeney: You choose your starting city but still start from new haven, mistake? yes. But that doesnt proof that EA doesnt care about new players. They must had over-looked this one... If they didnt care about new players, they wouldnt had created "new haven" in the first place, and hence, this problem would not even exist. Making a mistake doesnt mean they dont care.

 

[Old Man of UO]

1) To most of the posters in this thread: Sweeney isnt talking about whether EA should allow new players to start from other cities, he/she is saying that... since they start everyone from new haven, the option to choose your "starting" city shouldnt be there. It's a menu/interface issue.

...

It's all about the words. Based on the title that Sweeney set, all I can conclude from his/her postings is that he/she wants to bash EA/Mythic. I agree, it should be fixed, but as you pointed out this does not prove that EA/Mythic doesn't care about new players.

If Sweeney really CARED about this, there are other ways to submit bug reports and perhaps a better way to present it here in UHall without bashing EA/Mythic.

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

original post

New Haven was built for new players. Similarly, this change was implemented for new players. If anything, this bug affects veterans and a senile person might argue that EA/Mythic doesn't care about veteran players seeing how it has not been fixed.

Finally, those of us who have been reading U.hall for years, not just increasing our post count with <insert politically correct word for whines here>, would recall that this issue/bug has been acknowledged by developers in the past.

People go where the people are. If ALL new characters start in New Haven, logic tells us that ALL people interested in being right there when new players pop into the game will also go to New Haven. But, if there are towns based on play style that new players can go to, logic (I know, logic on Stratics is frowned upon) tells us that those same people interested in being around the place where new players pop into the game will be there.

That is all fine and dandy in theory but it is a case of not wanting to divide up an already small population any further. There are not going to be scores of new players popping up that you would need to organize them by play styles. It would make sense if UO was a hot new property on the market.

The situation on the ground (on most shards) is that you hardly ever see a veteran willing to help the few new players we do get. By having all new characters start in the same city you increase the chance of a rare new player running into another rare new player or a veteran willing to help.

 

[D'Amavir]

New Haven was built for new players. Similarly, this change was implemented for new players. If anything, this bug affects veterans and a senile person might argue that EA/Mythic doesn't care about veteran players seeing how it has not been fixed.

Finally, those of us who have been reading U.hall for years, not just increasing our post count with <insert politically correct word for whines here>, would recall that this issue/bug has been acknowledged by developers in the past.



That is all fine and dandy in theory but it is a case of not wanting to divide up an already small population any further. There are not going to be scores of new players popping up that you would need to organize them by play styles. It would make sense if UO was a hot new property on the market.

The situation on the ground (on most shards) is that you hardly ever see a veteran willing to help the few new players we do get. By having all new characters start in the same city you increase the chance of a rare new player running into another rare new player or a veteran willing to help.

That goes back to the 'EA doesn't care about New Players' comments that others have made. There is a reason why we have a low population. That reason is that people are leaving regularly and not being replaced by 'new' players. And EA is doing nothing to show they 'care' about new players.

Our request

"Have marketing actually market the game and do things to attract NEW players"

Their response

"We don't care. If you want new players then tell people you know to play. We won't waste money on advertising this little game when we are spending our money on commercials for our 'real' games."

Our response

"But the game is going to die it we don't replace the players we are losing with new ones"

Their response

"We don't care. UO is wildly profitable and we aren't smart enough to understand that that won't always be the case if we don't take into consideration the player loss vs the players gained concept."

To me, I go back and forth between 'lack of caring' on their part and 'lack of ability' on their part. Maybe they really really care about getting new players but they are just not smart enough or talented enough to do anything to get them.

You said it yourself, this 'bug/feature' has been acknowledge already. But, its still there. Is it really that difficult of a bug to fix? Really? I know, I know. "We are busy with AoS so we don't have resources to put towards that". We get it. So, is it that they don't care about how stupid it is the way it is now or are they too stupid to be able to fix it? How hard is it really to take out the 'pick a town' section of the coding? Seriously. That's something that they would need a team of 20 to work on?

 

[IanJames]

Well, it still needs to be correct on Siege as there's no moongate in Occlo

 

[Mairut]

It does let you select the city... that is the problem. You select Minoc or Vesper or wherever... then Next and Poof... you're in New Haven.

... and I don't believe this problem started with KR client. That may be when they blew up OLD Haven and created NEW Haven but it's been many more years (unless I'm older than I think) that we've been able to select where we want to start and then were DUMPED uncerimoneously into one Haven or another...

"Back in the day" if I remember correctly, It has ALWAYS dropped you in Haven. After you did whatever all to get started there, you then jumped through a gate that dropped you at your selected location...no? If not, then methinks my memory is going, and I must be thinking of a different game.

Pretty sure thats what happened though. And if thats the case, then new players are better off being dropped at haven and having a bigger list of gate locations to choose from.

Oh...and I've never heard a newblet (except you) complain about not being dropped in their selected location. Most of them are smart enough to figure it out after a couple hours rather than a week or so, and they don't get their panties in a bunch about it.

 

[Mairut]

QUOTED Amavir:: Again, you are confusing cause and effect. New Haven has people all the time. Why? Are all those veteran players running the new player quests? Or do they gather there because its the place that new players pop into the game and they want to be there to help them or recruit them?

Yes, actually...all of the above. Some people do go back to do quests that they didn't realize were there for nifty items. Some really do go their to help new players (or teach them a hard lesson in felconomics, depending on where the vet is from).

Now, in your mind those people would probably still stand around New Haven even if it wasn't the only starting town for new characters. But, in my mind, having 3 or 4 starting towns for new characters to choose from based on their play style would allow groups of each play style to gather in the town matching their style and 'help' or 'recruit' those new players that are interested in the same style.
Having 3-4 starting towns would mean that the vets of whatever profession would actually have to hang around in those towns to help the newblets, and on the chars for that profession. I think thats what you meant. And it can't be expected of even a few people even some of the time. Drop them off in haven that way when someone feels like helping newblets, they don't have to chase all over trying to find them.
"Based on their playstyle"....ummm pretty sure theirs a big difference in how one person plays a mage than another. And we do have 5+ chars to choose from so that argument is no good. Someone who met up with a young swords player could probably actually help them because they have a swords player on their account. Same for any other profession.

As it stands now, New Haven is either the number one hang out spot for multiple play styles or its a ghetto that people don't want to hang out in because of all the conflicting play styles gathered there. Some people love hanging out there while others hate going there. There is a better way to handle 'starting towns' in a way that supports the various play styles AND makes sense for new players. Right now, the process is dumb and it makes the developers look dumb.

Are you OCD??? "its a ghetto that people don't want to hang out in because of all the conflicting playstyles gathered there". Sounds OCD to me. I guess the devs should come up with a UO for swordsmanship, a UO for bards, a UO for....or...OR!! they could segregate the towns. Sounds wonderful!....NOT. "There is a better way to handle 'starting towns' in a way that supports various playstyles" (again with that word ) AND makes sense for new players"
Well....Again, unless you plan on segregating everything, I don't personally see a way to do this. As far as supporting various playstyles....
Well, how would you handle all of that???
And New Haven is Ghetto because of how it looks, not because of the different toons that happen to be there.

"Pick your starting town"

"Ok, I pick Britain."

"Ok, here you are in New Haven."

"But I picked Britain."

"And?"
blah blah blah

Right off the bat any new players will just have a bad taste in their mouths about the mentality of the people running the game. Sure, taking away the 'pick a town' part will eliminate that. But, there is still a better way to both cater to multiple play styles AND encourage and support new players.[/QUOTE]

Again, I'm sure you meant professions rather than playstyles. As far as encouraging support to new players...

Well, I do agree with you on that one little bit. We do need to support and encourage new players, but thats something that the UO vets, and "other non-newblet" players would have to come together to do as a community. This being because, as you keep saying along with everyone else based on whatever, we can't rely on EA or whomever to do it. Customer Service seems to be the biggest problem around here, and that doesn't revolve around one little screen. If that one little screen is such a big deal, then get some people to join you in greeting the newblets and explain to them that they are not in the town they selected.

 

[UOKaiser]

The whole point is mute. Any new player if any that start playing UO will start of with the kr client going trough the tutorial. Only vets play in the 2d client. If there was actualy a new player that decided to dowload 2d client instead there kr for some crazy reason which in order to run into it they will have to be looking for it in the first place anyway, The result will be a uninstall moments later.

 

[Nh'bdy]

They have not commented/have no desire to fix the "bug" where you are given the choice of a starting city, yet are forced into New Haven (On prodo) and Britain (on Siege/Mugen).

I see. A completely logical and true statement EXCEPT, of course, the fact that they went through all the trouble to make all of the lore/events surrounding the death of Haven not only fun, but interesting. Then we have the simple fact that they made new haven, new quests, new rewards, new NPCs. OOH and THEN we have the fact they moved the gate closer to save us old schoolers the run!

/thread

 

[D'Amavir]

Having 3-4 starting towns would mean that the vets of whatever profession would actually have to hang around in those towns to help the newblets, and on the chars for that profession.

No one would have to do anything. If they chose to do that they could.

I think thats what you meant. And it can't be expected of even a few people even some of the time. Drop them off in haven that way when someone feels like helping newblets, they don't have to chase all over trying to find them.

Why would a non rp'er go to the RP newbie drop off town looking for players?

"Based on their playstyle"....ummm pretty sure theirs a big difference in how one person plays a mage than another.

What does how someone plays a template have to do with it?

Are you OCD??? "its a ghetto that people don't want to hang out in because of all the conflicting playstyles gathered there". Sounds OCD to me.

How is that OCD? I know plenty of pvp'ers that won't go near haven because of the rp'ers there. And I also know plenty of rp'ers that won't go because of all the pvp'ers there. I think its silly but many people feel that way.

I guess the devs should come up with a UO for swordsmanship, a UO for bards, a UO for....or...OR!! they could segregate the towns. Sounds wonderful!....NOT.

You are right, not. Having something like you are suggesting is idiotic. I am glad we agree on that.

"There is a better way to handle 'starting towns' in a way that supports various playstyles" (again with that word )

You don't understand the word playstyles? Or is it various that you don't get? Supports? Which word confuses you so much?

Well....Again, unless you plan on segregating everything, I don't personally see a way to do this. As far as supporting various playstyles....
Well, how would you handle all of that???

I thought I made it clear. For players looking for pvp they would have a town that new players of that PLAY STYLE start in. Then, pvp'ers looking for new players (those that stay away from New Haven now) would know they could go there to find them.

And New Haven is Ghetto because of how it looks, not because of the different toons that happen to be there.[

That may be true for you. But not for others. Some people choose not to hang around with certain other people so forcing them to all go to one town to find new players means they have to suffer.

Again, I'm sure you meant professions rather than playstyles

No, I meant play styles. PVP is a playstyle. PVM is a playstyle. If you want to call those professions then go ahead. Its not correct though. Your 'Profession' title in UO is your highest skill based on its table order. Its not what specific style of play you prefer. If so, I would be a Legendary RP'erthatusedtoPVPbutstoppedatAoSbecauseitbecamelessskillbased. But, I am not. I am Legendary *insert profession here*.

 

[Mairut]

I was making my argument based on the fact that we would have a "better"(or more of) a new player base if people didn't rely on EA to do it all. I've noticed from many posts that people either
1) Expect EA to do it all. That is not unreasonable. However, we've been shown time and time again that there are some things that they do not have the resources to accomplish.

2)Do what they can to support other people in game by giving out help in the form of items/money, info, or help in training.

3)Don't do anything and don't really care either way.

Not everyone is exclusively one of those choices, and may not fit into any (that being my P.c. statement.) and not everyone is either one playstyle or another and what you suggested would inconvenience more than just the people in one playstyle or another that don't get along with each other.
I would also like to see the community getting back to what it used to be when I played for the first time, rather than people whining and moaning because things aren't fair or easy. If its not easy for you to get along with people in a different playstyle to help a new player, then you need to be doing something else. Whining and moaning and "suffering" because of this is idiotic, useless, and not the kind of people we need trying to help new players to this community. It is not the kind of impression we need to give them when they first start.

No one would have to do anything. If they chose to do that they could.

And it would be easier if they were all in haven instead of spread out in 3-4 different towns. "Drop them off in haven that way when someone feels like helping newblets, they don't have to chase all over trying to find them." That's the point that I was trying to make with that last sentence. If they chose to help they could, but you can't expect people to give more help just because they would supposedly be in a more convenient place. I do agree with the statement that you made above, but not necessarily how it should be done.



Why would a non rp'er go to the RP newbie drop off town looking for players?

Not all RPrs are in an RP guild, and I know some that aren't in any guild at all and actually prefer interacting with non RPers. That aside, I think its more about the "how this game works", and not all of it has to do playstyles (of which playing templates does have a lot to do with any playstyle) or rulesets.


What does how someone plays a template have to do with it?
Because seperating playstyles according to towns doesn't help any new player, regardless of playstyle or template. Whoever decides to help should be able to help new players when they feel like it, and this shouldn't be made any more of a hassle than it has to be. If its made more of a hassle, people who are the "kind of/sort of" will be less likely to do so. In my shard, and I'm speaking specifically of people with different crafter toons, will drop off overstock but good items in Haven. Yes some of this will get picked over. Imagine if they had to drop this stuff off in 3-4 different towns trying to reach all the new players. And the litter would be worse. My last statement goes along with this as well.



How is that OCD? I know plenty of pvp'ers that won't go near haven because of the rp'ers there. And I also know plenty of rp'ers that won't go because of all the pvp'ers there. I think its silly but many people feel that way.
My apologies for calling you OCD...
The OCD comment was about the overall statement "As it stands now, New Haven is either the number one hang out spot for multiple play styles or its a ghetto that people don't want to hang out in because of all the conflicting play styles gathered there", and "But, in my mind, having 3 or 4 starting towns for new characters to choose from based on their play style would allow groups of each play style to gather in the town matching their style and 'help' or 'recruit' those new players that are interested in the same style."
People really should just try and get along.
Again I agree with you, it is silly.
I understand you wanting to get help to the newblets because some RPrs and some Pvprs won't go into a town to help their folks, but it is unnecessary and a bad image to be giving new players.



You are right, not. Having something like you are suggesting is idiotic. I am glad we agree on that.
Lol. You were the one talking about separating RPrs and PVPrs and whatever else into separate towns. I thought you meant templates, but it still works either way. We shouldn't need to split anything up to help new players have a better first experience. I was using sarcasm to point out how what you were suggesting was idiotic. "For players looking for pvp they would have a town that new players of that PLAY STYLE start in. Then, pvp'ers looking for new players (those that stay away from New Haven now) would know they could go there to find them." We do know where to find them. Its called HAVEN. If they want to help new players, they will go there.



You don't understand the word playstyles? Or is it various that you don't get? Supports? Which word confuses you so much?
See the second to last thing at the very bottom.




I thought I made it clear. For players looking for pvp they would have a town that new players of that PLAY STYLE start in. Then, pvp'ers looking for new players (those that stay away from New Haven now) would know they could go there to find them.
And some people don't really care if you are RP, PVP or PVM, they'll know enough to help you get you're toon started in the right direction. If you need help getting in touch with someone who RPs, someone like me will know where some RPrs hang out. If they want to PVP then I could introduce them, safely, to some I know. Spreading them out in all different directions won't help those of us who aren't RP or PVP to help. If you are PVP and don't like RPrs or an RPr that doesn't like PVP then don't talk to each other, and learn to ignore whatever it is that the other set is doing that annoys you.
If you spend all your time avoiding certain people, then you will also know who to point a pvp, rp, or pvm new player toward.
I really, really doubt that a new player is going to give to shakes of a stick what playstyle you use, when you're offering them help.


That may be true for you. But not for others. Some people choose not to hang around with certain other people so forcing them to all go to one town to find new players means they have to suffer.
Its not my fault that they're suffering being on a screen with a couple of people they aren't going to interact with anyway. (unless its seige, of course). And I really don't see how anyone would be "suffering" from this. Its not torture, they don't have to be there. If they are genuinely interested in helping new players, it won't bother them. Doing any of what you are suggesting to convenience people who aren't new is rather silly, when we're talking about getting a bigger playerbase. If you aren't new, then spreading things out like you were suggesting would be an inconvenience to everyone who isn't having issues getting along with certain types of playstyles.

No, I meant play styles. PVP is a playstyle. PVM is a playstyle. If you want to call those professions then go ahead. Its not correct though. Your 'Profession' title in UO is your highest skill based on its table order. Its not what specific style of play you prefer. If so, I would be a Legendary RP'erthatusedtoPVPbutstoppedatAoSbecauseitbecamele ssskillbased. But, I am not. I am Legendary *insert profession here*.

Aah, ok. I thought you meant one thing but were saying another. I know what profession is, but what you meant and what some other people were talking about is different. On the specific screen that this thread was started about, you choose a location based on your profession rather than your playstyle.
Having that screen ask you what you're playstyle is and then give you options wouldn't help someone who isn't a big RPG gamer, and probably wouldn't know what any of that means. That won't help us gain more of a new player base either.

As a side note, I really don't think new players would be interested in doing RPG or PVP, those being the two more involved playstyles, until they get their feeting in this game. Getting their feeting means getting their skills up and learning how people interact with each other in game (which seems to be very very politely in almost everything), learning the whats whos and whys....etc.. Almost anyone could get them good armor or supplies, and it shouldn't be the sole responsibility of RPrs to help people who think they might like RPing, and PVPrs to help people who might like PVPing and the PVM people to help others who might do PVM. If they're new to this specific game, they might not know that they don't like how PVP or PVM is set up.

 

[the 4th man]

I dunno Sweeney, seems like you made a mountain out of a mole hill. UO has declined for other reasons, like better graphics, for one.

A new player is more likely to feel ripped off by such mickey mouse 2D images than what town they started in.

I see this as a rant and nothing more. Hell, you should apologize for making such an allegation.

later

 

[Old Man of UO]

I dunno Sweeney, seems like you made a mountain out of a mole hill. UO has declined for other reasons, like better graphics, for one.

A new player is more likely to feel ripped off by such mickey mouse 2D images than what town they started in.

I see this as a rant and nothing more. Hell, you should apologize for making such an allegation.

later

HEH... you said it so much better than I could.

 

[Sweeney]

D'Amavir said it best, although I had already said the talking points of it.. this is such an incredibly easy fix, yet nothing has been done to remedy it. Yes the devs may have commented on it before, and I knew this.. but it still hasn't been fixed, hence my post.

I agree with most of the posts, either force people to start in New Haven (prodo) or in Britain (Siege/Mugen).. do NOT give us a choice a starting cities. Or give us a choice and let us start there.

This is not a huge issue but as was said, it is these little fixes that give a large impression to players.