Help me understand Sampire: Chivalry?

[Ordrek]

What necessary role does Chiv play in a sampire template? I ask because it seems like keeping Karma up may be an issue... how do you do it? I plan to play on Siege Perilous where I can't use the Chiv version of Recall.

What else do people use Chiv for? I'm guessing for Cleanse, Remove Curse, and Enemy of One. What is the minimum real skill you would need to make use of these abilities?

P.S.- Does Curse Weapon life drain stack with Vampire Life drain?

 

[Connor_Graham]

Cons Wep, EoO, Cleanse by Fire, Remove Curse, and Divine Fury are all used by Sampires. Karma isn't an issue as there are no Necro spells cast other than Vamp Embrace, and that only after death.

Yes, CW does stack with Vamp form leech.

 

[Aibal]

Aye, karma is NEVER a problem for sampires. What is lost when cast VE is quickly regained fighting mobs...in fact, when I kill Miasma now, I don't ever gain karma...none. I did three straight Oaks the other day, killing probably 40+ serpentine drags and never fell below glorious lord.

 

[Ordrek]

What if you actually have Spirit Speak and use Cursed Weapon/Wraith form instead?

Is that what people are calling a "wammy?" How bad is karma management for them? Does a "wammy" even bother with Chivalry? I would imagine if you had the SS to use the other spells you would want to take advantage of them, especially if you PvP (like I want to).

 

[Connor_Graham]

What if you actually have Spirit Speak and use Cursed Weapon/Wraith form instead?

Is that what people are calling a "wammy?"

Yes, that's a Wammy.

How bad is karma management for them?

It takes a lot of karma farming to maintain high karma as you're constantly casting Curse Wep, as it's the primary method of healing.

Does a "wammy" even bother with Chivalry?

Yes. I doubt any meleer would consider not having Chiv. It's benefits per points invested are just too high to ignore.

I would imagine if you had the SS to use the other spells you would want to take advantage of them, especially if you PvP (like I want to).

I wouldn't suggest using a Sampire, and most especially not a Wammy, in PvP. Wammy's are stuck on foot, which leaves you as an easy target. A simple Ward Removal talisman takes you out of your form, leaving you screwed. In PvM some do cast other spells just for variety, although it's not really necessary.

 

[Old Man of UO]

As an aside, I discovered yesterday that for some reason karma goes higher for non-necro warriors and chiv spells therefore last longer.

I remember a comment from Connor saying EOO last 215 seconds, and it does also on my sampire. But on my ABC archer, I am at 217 seconds and still gaining karma... and I recall once having over 220 seconds for EOO. Divine Fury also lasts longer. I don't quite understand what the difference is with karma and chiv spells.

 

[Connor_Graham]

As far as I've been able to discover, 220 seconds is the absolute max for karma, and is only achievable after gaining karma from boss after boss after boss. I hit it once on my archer, but it literally takes months of boss killing to get to that point. My archer is also at 217 karma, although he probably dropped after the last Oaks I ran with him. There is no difference other than the time factor. A sampire will have to cast VE every so often while the archer doesn't.

 

[RichDC]

Y

I wouldn't suggest using a Sampire, and most especially not a Wammy, in PvP. Wammy's are stuck on foot, which leaves you as an easy target. A simple Ward Removal talisman takes you out of your form, leaving you screwed. In PvM some do cast other spells just for variety, although it's not really necessary.

IF..IF you were going to use one of these PvP, then you would want LOW karma and be a wammy.

This will drain the targets mana pool, so spamming ar ignores for example will drop you targets mana by about 20 a hit(alot on a dexxer, stil nasty on a mage) while replening yours.

The sammy just wont do enough damage PvP to leech life effectively.

Note: a wammy is also bleed proof and can cast other offensive necro spells(pain spike, wither, strangle, poison strike, mind rot on occasions.)

Samps are just poison proof and usually VERY succeptable to a curse, corpse exp, fs, eo combo

 

[Lefty]

Before the PVP Publish as well as before a lot of the damage caps I ran my guy with this template.

120 Swords
120 Parry
120 Bushido
120 Resist
90 healing
81 Anat
69 necro

And used items to get vamp form. After the publish he has been on the shelf because I have no idea how to make him PvP viable. I need resist as well as a form of healing. Also stamina and mana are a big issue also. If anyone has any suggestions it would be most appreciated.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

Before the PVP Publish as well as before a lot of the damage caps I ran my guy with this template.

120 Swords
120 Parry
120 Bushido
120 Resist
90 healing
81 Anat
69 necro

And used items to get vamp form. After the publish he has been on the shelf because I have no idea how to make him PvP viable. I need resist as well as a form of healing. Also stamina and mana are a big issue also. If anyone has any suggestions it would be most appreciated.

Additionally to create an even bigger issue, Publish 46 on August 29th of 2007 made it so you have to have 70 tactics to execute primary weapon skills and 90 tactics skill to execute secondary weapon skills.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

What is the minimum real skill you would need to make use of these abilities?

It will depend on what you're trying to achieve. The others have given good advice, but in order to be pretty reliable with Enemy of One, you'll need about 75 chivalry. Since you are on Siege though, I recommend looking at whatever tactics your guild does. If it's not really required to use noble sacrifice ever, then frankly I would go with even less chivalry than what I stated. You'll want those points in other places.

 

[RichDC]

Before the PVP Publish as well as before a lot of the damage caps I ran my guy with this template.

120 Swords
120 Parry
120 Bushido
120 anatomy
100/90 Tactics
90 Healing
50/60 Med/focus/chiv


And used items to get vamp form. After the publish he has been on the shelf because I have no idea how to make him PvP viable. I need resist as well as a form of healing. Also stamina and mana are a big issue also. If anyone has any suggestions it would be most appreciated.

You dont really need Resist atm, trap boxes for paralyse and pots/apples/faction aids for all else.

I would say go for the 100tactics because of the damage increase, maintain high karma so your heals and cures from chiv are powerful, if you can get high casting youll be pretty powerful

 

[Old Man of UO]

It will depend on what you're trying to achieve. The others have given good advice, but in order to be pretty reliable with Enemy of One, you'll need about 75 chivalry. Since you are on Siege though, I recommend looking at whatever tactics your guild does. If it's not really required to use noble sacrifice ever, then frankly I would go with even less chivalry than what I stated. You'll want those points in other places.

If you use the 2D client, you can set a macro key for the EOO spell, and just hold it down until it goes off. Meaning you can get away with 65 chiv and still reasonably cast EOO. With KR, you have to release and press the macro key between each casting attempt, else have the macro repeat itself. I'm finding that I need about 75 using the KR client to be reasonably successful. On my sampire with max DCI, I can get away with 65 chiv skill and use the extra points for tactics and anatomy. My archer doesn't have much DCI and 75 chiv works much better.

I also notice a significant difference in the Divine Fury between these two skill levels.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

If you use the 2D client, you can set a macro key for the EOO spell, and just hold it down until it goes off. Meaning you can get away with 65 chiv and still reasonably cast EOO. With KR, you have to release and press the macro key between each casting attempt, else have the macro repeat itself. I'm finding that I need about 75 using the KR client to be reasonably successful. On my sampire with max DCI, I can get away with 65 chiv skill and use the extra points for tactics and anatomy. My archer doesn't have much DCI and 75 chiv works much better.

I also notice a significant difference in the Divine Fury between these two skill levels.

I was talking about just what his needs were, but I do see your points. Nice information. I myself did not know that since I have not used the new clients. What are your opinions as far as the other spells in regards to both clients?

 

[Old Man of UO]

I was talking about just what his needs were, but I do see your points. Nice information. I myself did not know that since I have not used the new clients. What are your opinions as far as the other spells in regards to both clients?

The only two I really have a problem with at 65 chiv and KR are Enemy of One and Divine Fury. EOO I jsut make sure I cast before I run in to honor, and avoid Divine Fury as much as possible anyway.

I don't use Holy Light, but that would be really tough without good jewelry. I keep an insured set of jewelry on me (+30 chiv) for Noble Sacrifice to rez people even for 75 chivalry... jewelry is cheap to find when that is the only mod you are looking for.

Dispel Evil seems to work better on a fast weapon than the spell, but that is one spell that I really like to have for Doom. If you are going to depend on DE to get rid of revenants and spawn, you really need high karma and as much chiv as your template allows.