Illegal house desgn?

[Connor_Graham]

So its a matter of degrees? I can instantly get an advanced character in about 2 minutes. Much faster than anyone scripting can get to those levels. But that's ok? Powergamers can get to 120 in any skill faster than any casual player can. But that's ok? SoT users can GM any skill in minutes by using SoTs, much faster than any scripter can. But that's ok? See the point yet? No, I know you don't.

It's you that's deliberately not seeing the point. A scripter goes from 0-100 (or 120 depending on skill) without sitting in front of the computer themselves and performing the actions required to reach that level. Any of the items you keep trying to toss in still require you to actually play the game. Tokens don't immediately give you max skill, only up to 85. The rest you have to work up yourself by playing the game. SoT's require you to actually go work champ spawns to get them, or do some other part of the game to get the gold to buy them, which is done by playing the game. A scripter just hits the "run script" button then walks away while the computer does everything without having to actually play the game.

Pretty green yeah. On my side of the fence, there are people with common sense. On yours, not so much. Making up lies really doesn't help you out. Then again, with the company you keep. That may not be true. I am sure the people like you buy into the garbage you try to spread when you can't tell the truth.

But, I appreciate you giving up trying to answer a simple question.

Who said I gave up? Cheaters, like you it appears since you've now admitted that you cheat, always have some twisted version of the truth they use to try and justify the reason they cheat. Sadly, you and all the other scripters actually think that the rest of us that don't cheat actually believe you.

Guess what.



We don't.


We just think it's pretty damn sad that people (like you by your own admission) can't handle actually playing a video game, and have to cheat to feel like they've succeeded at it, then use some BS excuse as to why it's "ok".

Oh, and I don't lie, and haven't in any part of this thread. I am offended though, that you feel you have to resort to insults against my personal character in order to try and deflect the truth about the matter. But then cheaters always do try to point the finger, and the blame, at someone else in order to make themselves feel better about cheating. That's ok though, it just proves that I'm the better person.

Nothing more to see here.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

I used to have a bunch of pens in my Fel 18x18 for keeping Ki-Rins/Unicorns in. Whenever a red would come along to bug me while i'm messing with bods on my craftsman, i just open up the pens and open up a "secret door" in the wall, and they all rush out to attack the red (Ki-Rins/Unicorns attack anything with negative karma). Funny as hell watching someone get ganked by them. It's like a defense mechanism for my house when i'm on my craftsman.

 

[D'Amavir]

You originally asked "Why are three of those "massively impacting" (according to the naysayers here) legal and accepted while the fourth isn't?", not "why did the devs decide to make scripting illegal?" I'm just calling you on some of your poor argument building skills.

Answering why is something illegal? with "Its illegal because they said it is." says more about you than me.

Your argument is very poor here. I see nothing wrong with people using legal methods to advance more quickly than they could have, only illegal methods that everyone will not use. The playing field is not level that way. I have said this before in this thread, please stop making me cover old ground.

You are still missing the point. Your issue is that doing it is illegal. My question is why is it illegal while the others aren't? You keep dodging it but I don't know why.

Darn it what did I just say! AGAIN see my point above! Scripting skills is an unfair advantage that not everyone will use, because some people WILL NOT cheat no matter how much people like you try to white wash it. I pointed out that soulstones are not available in bulk to everyone, they are pretty pricey unless you are willing to use up a bunch of vet rewards on them, which means that to go the soulstone route instead of the skill scripting route would be costly. I already *made* this point, which means that I certainly didn't prove any point of yours.

And I am saying again, WHY is it illegal when the others aren't? You have said several times that you don't have an issue with the ACT you have an issue with the LABEL of the act. That's a fair viewpoint. My question is still WHY is it illegal when others aren't?

Advanced character tokens cost money, but scripting skills is free. So therefore if you want to script skills you will not have to pay extra money. Also, there's no lumberjack adv char token. So bzzt! Try again.

But there is power gaming and there is buying accounts, as you know. Both are legal.

And for the fifitieth time, they are also LEGAL. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE. I'm so sorry you don't get it!

You don't get it. I KNOW its illegal. And I KNOW that you hate the label and not the act. I KNOW this.

But there are a million LEGAL time savers in the game, like using the recall spell to get around. I don't have a problem with LEGAL time savers! I have a problem with an ILLEGAL TIME SAVER THAT GIVES CHEATERS AN ADVANTAGE.

Which is why developers should make it legal. Then they don't have that advantage AND it fits in with the other things just like it.

Whew! I hope that way it will stick in your brain and you can stop making the same same same dumb argument.

I won't post really big colored fonts to try to get you to undertand. That is the maturity equivalent of covering your ears and yelling when someone is trying to talk to you.

Lol, people have always been tempted to cheat, but who is more likely to cheat? Someone who is ALREADY FREAKING CHEATING or someone who isn't? Cmon, I know you can come up with the right answer. *puts on the final jeopardy theme song*

What is irrevelant, Alex? The slippery slope logic is wayyyy beyond flawed and in this non Bush age we can finally move past that.

Uh dude, that is how it works with everything that is illegal ingame. If they legalize it a good portion of the population will jump at the chance to use/get it. It's not like there are heroin dealers in UO, there aren't any morally questionable things going on except game exploits that they will never legalize (like duping), because duping is an exploit of game mechanics and they prefer to fix bugs. The "stigma" or "label" or whatever you want to call it IS important, because it separates people who play legitimately from those who cheat.

Exactly, it should be legal. All your issues are gone if it is AND the game has many many less cheaters. Which is what you all claim to want, right?

Ok one more time:

SKILL SCRIPTING IS AN ILLEGAL ADVANTAGE AND I DO NOT APPROVE THE USE OF IT. I AM FINE WITH ANY TIMESAVERS THAT ARE LEGAL, AND IN FACT USE MANY OF THEM AS TIME MANAGEMENT IS IMPORTANT TO ME.

When you uncover your ears and stop yelling I will be right here, shaking my head and laughing at you. And shedding a tear since you are what this world is made of these days. Sadly.

 

[D'Amavir]

It's you that's deliberately not seeing the point. A scripter goes from 0-100 (or 120 depending on skill) without sitting in front of the computer themselves

As does the person that buys an account (legal).

and performing the actions required to reach that level. Any of the items you keep trying to toss in still require you to actually play the game. Tokens don't immediately give you max skill, only up to 85. The rest you have to work up yourself by playing the game. SoT's require you to actually go work champ spawns to get them, or do some other part of the game to get the gold to buy them, which is done by playing the game. A scripter just hits the "run script" button then walks away while the computer does everything without having to actually play the game.

And a UOA player just hits a button while he is running and slaps on a potion. That's not fair to a non UOA user.

Who said I gave up? Cheaters, like you it appears since you've now admitted that you cheat, always have some twisted version of the truth they use to try and justify the reason they cheat. Sadly, you and all the other scripters actually think that the rest of us that don't cheat actually believe you.

Guess what.



We don't.

Again, make up what you want. Just leave the truth to the grownups like me.

We just think it's pretty damn sad that people (like you by your own admission) can't handle actually playing a video game, and have to cheat to feel like t

Sorry, I was GM'ing skills by hand while you were still in diapers. Granted, for you that was yesterday. But for me, I have been doing it since 97.

hey've succeeded at it, then use some BS excuse as to why it's "ok".

I am not making up excuses why it's ok. I am trying to find out why it's not ok. I know, its illegal. We all get that. Even someone like you can get that. We know, we get it. Its illegal. But, why is it illegal? Again, I know that its illegal because they said its illegal. Follow the question to its logical conclusion.

Oh, and I don't lie, and haven't in any part of this thread. I am offended though

Saying something intentional untrue is in fact a lie. Making you, the teller of the lie, a liar.

, that you feel you have to resort to insults against my personal character in order to try and deflect the truth about the matter.

You insult your own character by lying. I don't need to lift a finger.

But then cheaters always do try to point the finger, and the blame, at someone else in order to make themselves feel better about cheating. That's ok though, it just proves that I'm the better person.

I feel great about myself. Even more so after watching you work. I have a hunger for knowledge. I want to know the whys in the world and not just fall back on 'cause they said so' logic. I enjoy this game and have for a long time. I have the fun that I want to have and am not greatly impacted by the actions of others. I am confident enough in myself to know that I don't have to lie to make myself feel better about myself.

Nothing more to see here.

Yes please. Can we have the next? You just aren't qualified.

 

[Sarsmi]

Ok now you are trying to ask ME why the devs decided to make scripting illegal...guess what, I'm not a dev and I cannot answer for them. I'll give it a shot though!

I believe scripting is illegal because it is easy to do it unattended, and many people do. You are essentially automating your game play, which means you are no longer actually *playing* the game. I do not believe the devs want the land populated by robots.

That doesn't prove anything one way or the other. It's only my opinion of why they chose to do something. If you want to know the actual reason you can submit an FoF or email chrissay.

I won't post really big colored fonts to try to get you to undertand. That is the maturity equivalent of covering your ears and yelling when someone is trying to talk to you.

Actually it's the equivalent of speaking very slowly and trying to use as many monosyllabic words as possible in order for the person you are talking to to understand what you are saying...

The slippery slope logic is wayyyy beyond flawed and in this non Bush age we can finally move past that.

Go ahead and say that no one who ever started scripting only to gain in skill became tempted and decided to use scripting to do other things. Just say it, or stop using your "slippery slope" pet phrase, which doesn't apply here anyways. I'm not saying all skill scripters, just some. One would be enough to prove my point in fact.

Exactly, it should be legal. All your issues are gone if it is AND the game has many many less cheaters. Which is what you all claim to want, right?

Actually I don't know how I feel about this. I'm sure if it was legal I would script, because I would find it interesting, and being able to manage tedious chores would be great, but I think it would be detrimental to the population. There would be scripters everywhere, and it would feel like being in a land of ghosts...it would be sad for things to come to that, but if they don't fix scripting then unfortunately legalizing it is one of the better options open to them.

When you uncover your ears and stop yelling I will be right here, shaking my head and laughing at you. And shedding a tear since you are what this world is made of these days. Sadly.

Better be careful, you're drifting dangerously close to making personal attacks, and we wouldn't want this interesting thread to get locked now would we?

 

[Connor_Graham]

As does the person that buys an account (legal).

Oh, so now we're adding something else to the list? By the way, someone buying an account didn't just build up the skills on every character by hitting "run script" then going to the movies or going to bed. Buying an account has nothing to do with scripting skills. Not even a nice try, sorry, you lose.

And a UOA player just hits a button while he is running and slaps on a potion. That's not fair to a non UOA user.

Both are actually playing the game, not out doing something else while their computer is running scripts. Do you even know what playing the game is, or do you just script everything? But then yet again this has nothing to do with illegally scripting skills.

Again, make up what you want. Just leave the truth to the grownups like me.

Grownups don't cheat. Juveniles do.

Sorry, I was GM'ing skills by hand while you were still in diapers. Granted, for you that was yesterday. But for me, I have been doing it since 97.

Again with the personal insults. What's the matter kid, run out of BS to pass around, or just couldn't think up anything better? GM'ing skills by hand does not mean you hit the "run script" button then go to bed. Again, sorry, you lose.

I am not making up excuses why it's ok. I am trying to find out why it's not ok. I know, its illegal. We all get that. Even someone like you can get that. We know, we get it. Its illegal. But, why is it illegal? Again, I know that its illegal because they said its illegal. Follow the question to its logical conclusion.

So, Mr. Great Wall of China, is the concept of not actually playing the game, instead having the computer play it for you while you're out doing something else, too hard a concept for you to grasp? You sure seem to be able to perform the scripting. It shouldn't be all that hard to understand it when it's spelled out for you. But that's right, then you'd have to admit that you're wrong, so instead you have to try and deflect the responses with meaningless gibberish. Sorry, you lose, yet again.

Saying something intentional untrue is in fact a lie. Making you, the teller of the lie, a liar.

Please, Mr Oh So Holier Than Thou Scripter, please quote the lie so I can prove you wrong yet again.

You insult your own character by lying. I don't need to lift a finger.

Lying about someone lying is insulting to their character, not to mention doesn't do much for your own. Is this just another concept you can't grasp?

I feel great about myself. Even more so after watching you work. I have a hunger for knowledge. I want to know the whys in the world and not just fall back on 'cause they said so' logic. I enjoy this game and have for a long time. I have the fun that I want to have and am not greatly impacted by the actions of others. I am confident enough in myself to know that I don't have to lie to make myself feel better about myself.

Yeah, games are really easy to play when you're not the one doing the playing. It's no wonder you feel so good about yourself. :loser:

Yes please. Can we have the next? You just aren't qualified.

Actually, I'm so far above you that you can't even see that high. That happens when you're sitting at the bottom of the dung heap with the rest of the cheaters.

 

[D'Amavir]

Ok now you are trying to ask ME why the devs decided to make scripting illegal...guess what, I'm not a dev and I cannot answer for them. I'll give it a shot though!

If you want, feel free. I was asking for your opinions on it but if you have none and prefer to ask them then that's your call.

I believe scripting is illegal because it is easy to do it unattended, and many people do. You are essentially automating your game play, which means you are no longer actually *playing* the game. I do not believe the devs want the land populated by robots.

Aren't they adding more and more things in the game that allow you to keep repeating tasks? I know the crafter stuff in KR is similar. Personally, to me, standing around taming a bull over and over is not 'playing to game'. Some people enjoy it but it doesn't appeal to me. That's why I don't have a 120 tamer. Its just not my idea of 'playing'.

That doesn't prove anything one way or the other. It's only my opinion of why they chose to do something. If you want to know the actual reason you can submit an FoF or email chrissay.

Its not something I am dying to know. I only get involved in these discussions when people like you post threads about it. When they stop making those threads and stop bringing it up on other threads, I won't post about it.

Actually it's the equivalent of speaking very slowly and trying to use as many monosyllabic words as possible in order for the person you are talking to to understand what you are saying...

Oh, then I am typing this really slow for your benefit....you look immature.

Go ahead and say that no one who ever started scripting only to gain in skill became tempted and decided to use scripting to do other things

I would never say something like that. That's as ignorant as saying that ALL people that script skills move onto real cheat scripts. I don't do ignorant. So you can stop pm'ing me asking.

Just say it, or stop using your "slippery slope" pet phrase, which doesn't apply here anyways. I'm not saying all skill scripters, just some. One would be enough to prove my point in fact.

A fact that is not in question. Not from me. I know that there have been people that have moved from skill scripting to cheat scripting. Just like I know some people that drive move onto vehicular homicide. That doesn't mean I think are driving should be illegal.

Actually I don't know how I feel about this. I'm sure if it was legal I would script, because I would find it interesting, and being able to manage tedious chores would be great, but I think it would be detrimental to the population. There would be scripters everywhere, and it would feel like being in a land of ghosts...it would be sad for things to come to that, but if they don't fix scripting then unfortunately legalizing it is one of the better options open to them.

I don't know. I read threads from your type every day saying that scripters ARE everywhere. Daily. And its illegal. So it wold go from being everywhere to being everywhere? That's a lot of wheres. And the fact that you claim you WOULD script to do tedious chores is the exact reason scripts in UO exist! I have that for years.

Better be careful, you're drifting dangerously close to making personal attacks, and we wouldn't want this interesting thread to get locked now would we?

Not at all. I pointed out my views on people that use big colored fonts and how that was eerily similar to childish tantrums. As for getting locked, its going to happen anyway. The mods hate when people express a different opinion from the normals. And I don't use normals as a compliment.

As for the thread being interesting. Its not really. Just the same type of people either making up lies or throwing out childish petty insults and claiming to 'win' every time they say something. I guess interesting as a case study in poor behavior amongst people that fail at intellectual discourse maybe?

 

[popps]

Actually I don't know how I feel about this. I'm sure if it was legal I would script, because I would find it interesting, and being able to manage tedious chores would be great, but I think it would be detrimental to the population. There would be scripters everywhere, and it would feel like being in a land of ghosts...it would be sad for things to come to that, but if they don't fix scripting then unfortunately legalizing it is one of the better options open to them.

Well, but if it is not technically possible to stop scripting, and the fact that at about 12 years of existance of the game scripting is still used in Ultima Online shows at least to me hints of this, leaving things as they are (scripting not allowed) achieves what if I may ask ??

To me it seems to just divide UO's players population in those who script anyways, achieving quite an advantage, and others who don't because it is not allowed.

And this creates an unfair inbalance among players.

Not right, IMHO, not right at all.

If scripting can be stopped for good, well then please do it.

BUT, if scripting has no technical solution capable of getting rid of it in the game, well, then "at least" make it readily available to ALL players getting it into the UO client for all players to use.

I think the current players' inbalance (some using scripts and some not...) need to end, one way or the other.

That's at least how I see it.

 

[Lord Gareth]

You can't have pets in your house at all, no matter the design. Someone paged on me even though I was attended and standing in the middle of a bunch of animals trying to train Discordance. The Gamemaster said it isn't allowed to have pets in your house unless you are doing some type of zoo.

So really what you are saying is....we should page on all the castle owners because I see TONS of animals and NPCs inside. The courtyard is INSIDE the house.

Woho Free Castles as long as Draconi doesn't burn them down. I have friends that drop Dragons in my house or Hyrus. Monks ALSO LOVE to just fall through my roof and into the upstairs room and they are stuck for days until I boot them (Public house or not)

You can say tell your friends not to do it but what about those of us that have public homes? People could easy put ten Cues inside.

So if I really want this guys house outside of Luna should I just load it up with pets and make it look like he is macroing and I will get a house?

hehheheh

 

[Whinemaker]

You can't have pets in your house at all, no matter the design. Someone paged on me even though I was attended and standing in the middle of a bunch of animals trying to train Discordance. The Gamemaster said it isn't allowed to have pets in your house unless you are doing some type of zoo.

Wow so you can't even have pets in your house now.

I remember this one time I logged out with my greater dragon at home in an all fenced-in, off limit area (think of it as a "basement") and logged back in half a day later to find a wild greater sitting there. Figured there was probably a shard revert or something just when I logged out but somehow the dragon was left online.

I'm glad there weren't any A-holes nearby to page on me.

By the way, if you can't have pets in your house, what's the point of the hitching post anyway...

 

[Lexfixr]

Is anyone paying attention -- I expected this thread to die quickly
here are the facts
1-someone held some pets in their house against the rules
2-then someone reported the situation to a GM
3-the GM responded
4-the GM took the only action available to them
5-punish the offender

now all get a grip -- if the GM had done nothing this thread would be full of fire and brimstone on how the GM didn't do their job -- favoristism, incompentance etc would have prevailed

simple what would you want the GM to do -- apply the rules as they are or make them up on the fly?

its kind of simple someone broke the rules someone found out and a minor and I mean minor penalty was imposed- no conspiracy

I sure hope many of you aren't on any jury for anyone I know--there are limited facts for all these conclusions.

If you really believe that a GM is out of control -- report their behavior

I believe they do an excellent job in most cases.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

At the end of the day, the house issue is down to whether someone grief-pages on you or not. That's about it, really.

You could build a house which could hold wild creatures while making it impossible to gain skill off them without putting yourself in harm's way (cage 'em using walls instead of fences). You could make a house which is clearly holding the pets for display, as allowed by the rule (literally name your house "zoo" and put up bulleton boards explaining the "exhibits"). It doesn't matter. What matters is if someone pages on you or not.

Really though, it's also illegal to shoot at things over a fence for much the same reasons. They're both stupid rules and I think they were never thought out properly. I think I'll send in a FoF as to why they're in place.

Re skill scripting:

It is not humanly possible to single-handedly reach 6xLegendary in the same amount of time as a script. You need to take more breaks then a script does. You can use tokens, you can play as often as your life allows, but at the end of the day you can't keep up with a scripter who's also using tokens etc. The scripter is always the "fastest", so all other skill gaining scenarios and advantages are moot (because he can use them too).

So, what advantage does a player have in being able to tailor their skills so precisely, so quickly?

They're more likely to win in PvP, on average, as they can adapt to enemy templates faster and so will be better off in the majority of battle situations. Not all of them, but the majority.

Now, assuming the above doesn't make the point clear on it's own, using scipts to maintain template advantages means you're more likely to kill your opponents.

Factions using this technique versus factions who do not will get more town sigils.

Guilds and alliances using this technique versus guilds/alliances who do not will get more power scrolls, hence allowing them relative dominamce of that section of the shard's economy.

Single PvPers using this technique versus single PvPers who do not will win more insurance money.

Crafting scripts are a slightly different issue, of course. They merely allow players to start selling goods faster, hence allowing them to earn more gold overall.

My personal opinion is "who cares?". I don't play UO to win nor do I play to be the best. Let's face it, you can't win a MMORPG by design, and there is very little prestige to being at the top of the pile. I mostly do PvM battles and I couldn't give a fig whether the people I group with script or not.

 

[Spelosty]

Any cheating will affect everyone in the game in some way eventually. Probably not a huge way but it will affect everyone.

 

[UOKaiser]

Re skill scripting:

It is not humanly possible to single-handedly reach 6xLegendary in the same amount of time as a script. You need to take more breaks then a script does. You can use tokens, you can play as often as your life allows, but at the end of the day you can't keep up with a scripter who's also using tokens etc. The scripter is always the "fastest", so all other skill gaining scenarios and advantages are moot (because he can use them too).

So, what advantage does a player have in being able to tailor their skills so precisely, so quickly?

They're more likely to win in PvP, on average, as they can adapt to enemy templates faster and so will be better off in the majority of battle situations. Not all of them, but the majority.

Now, assuming the above doesn't make the point clear on it's own, using scipts to maintain template advantages means you're more likely to kill your opponents.

Factions using this technique versus factions who do not will get more town sigils.

Guilds and alliances using this technique versus guilds/alliances who do not will get more power scrolls, hence allowing them relative dominamce of that section of the shard's economy.

Single PvPers using this technique versus single PvPers who do not will win more insurance money.

Crafting scripts are a slightly different issue, of course. They merely allow players to start selling goods faster, hence allowing them to earn more gold overall.

I agree with the majority of what you said except I have a different opinion on this part. My Reason is that im under the belief that most people who play Uo now are vets in one way or another. We all already have almost every skill in the game in our characters or soulstones. Many of us trained our skills a very long time ago. If we need a new template we can easily have a new character within the hour with the use of soulstones and soulstone fragments. So non of us have a advantage except against those very rare new players that join at a rate of 2-5 a year. If a vet don't have a advantage against them then they must be playing a begger for all these years with all there slots.
Also no need to use outside programs to raise skill. PoP in KR make a nice little macro aka KR script and you will gm-legendary most skills in no time at all. Yep a little break here and there but while watching a movie doing something else all you need to do is peek over from time to time.
Of course unattended might mean lifting youre eyes off youre screen for 1 sec or have youre brain drift in to another compeling thought. But lucky for us EA hasn't implimented the thought control and head restraint device yet .

 

[UOKaiser]

It's really very simple. When I bought the game and loaded it on my pc I agreed to the terms of service. I made a promise to abide by those rules. My promises mean something to me, I keep them.

There is no need for any of the rest of this 'scripting' argument. The question was 'is it illegal to lock game creatures in your house'

The answer is, while it's permissible (though inadvisable) to leave pets in the house, it is not allowed to lock untamed creatures in, it is classed as 'blocking'.

I have to ask. You actually read the TOS,privacy,TOU,ROC of UO and any programs you install or services you use? Youre one in a million if you do. I reference to it just to see it but when I click any of these aggreements I don't take the time to read them. I know I probably sold my soul and all my future kids along time ago.
I have 100's of programs installed on my pc now.I've installed thousands upon thousands over all these years. In order to actually read all these rules TOS and etc you need a permanent lawyer on retainer. Ever since UO went into teen rating am sure the majority doesn't even know what a TOS is let alone even care not like they care if it was R,pg-17 or xxx any way. Over a decade ago I joined this game but am sure I didnt read the TOS when I installed it. Hell I can't get a refund for the game if I didnt agree to the terms of service let alone if they changed it and I didnt agree EA wouldnt give my money back for the box or that months subscription.

 

[Jade of Sonoma]

Agreed 100%. Another option is to use another account to make another tamer character and have UO installed on two computers so you can trade pets between the two tamers without anyone else to help you. Of course, then you end up with more tamers to train, but that's another issue entirely.

Long ago, I heard Tamers were going to be reduced to limited stable slots. I made 3 GM tamers on my account. I only had one computer. Pets were mysteriously vanishing at that time when recalling or gating, so when my son gave me his old computer which was good enough for transferring pets between characters, I opened a second account, transferred nightmares/dragons to four new characters, then logged them off for a year or two. At that time anyone could have a dragon or a mare without taming skills. Now I've upgraded one of my Tamers to Legendary, and made a Legendary Tamer on Origin which later was transferred to Sonoma. Upgrading these tamers with Power Scrolls causes major expenses, but, one by one, I've been bringing the other tamers out of mothballs to gain tamer's skills to GM, so they can ligitimately own mares and dragon, and become Legendary as I obtain the required 120 Power Scrolls.

SUGGESTIONS:

1) Keep the Tamer's STABLE SLOT for BONDED PETS as presently programmed.

2) Allow 5 extra Slots for holding UN BONDED PETS temporarily for 7 Days giving tamers time to chose which pets to keep and which pets to bond.
This won't give the tamer enough time to train pets but if that is important then, yes, they'd have to use use bonded slots for that purpose. This would give Tamers a chance to have fun selling pets and earn gold using their craft.

Hunting monsters with a greater dragon seems to be all that is left for Tamers. I love taming but it sure has taken a beating over the years.

Keeping a few wild beasts in a house is cause for banning a player?
I can't see the harm in it but then there are always exploits that I never know about or bother to find out about. To me it sounds like an old rule, obsolete in today's UO.

PS: Jade wishes to build igloos in the snow....
.. and for a fishing hole that produces fish as 11th or 12th year Vet Item
-- whenever UO development/programmers can find time, please.
Thank you in advance!

 

[popps]

Long ago, I heard Tamers were going to be reduced to limited stable slots. I made 3 GM tamers on my account. I only had one computer. Pets were mysteriously vanishing at that time when recalling or gating, so when my son gave me his old computer which was good enough for transferring pets between characters, I opened a second account, transferred nightmares/dragons to four new characters, then logged them off for a year or two. At that time anyone could have a dragon or a mare without taming skills. Now I've upgraded one of my Tamers to Legendary, and made a Legendary Tamer on Origin which later was transferred to Sonoma. Upgrading these tamers with Power Scrolls causes major expenses, but, one by one, I've been bringing the other tamers out of mothballs to gain tamer's skills to GM, so they can ligitimately own mares and dragon, and become Legendary as I obtain the required 120 Power Scrolls.

SUGGESTIONS:

1) Keep the Tamer's STABLE SLOT for BONDED PETS as presently programmed.

2) Allow 5 extra Slots for holding UN BONDED PETS temporarily for 7 Days giving tamers time to chose which pets to keep and which pets to bond.
This won't give the tamer enough time to train pets but if that is important then, yes, they'd have to use use bonded slots for that purpose. This would give Tamers a chance to have fun selling pets and earn gold using their craft.

Hunting monsters with a greater dragon seems to be all that is left for Tamers. I love taming but it sure has taken a beating over the years.

Keeping a few wild beasts in a house is cause for banning a player?
I can't see the harm in it but then there are always exploits that I never know about or bother to find out about. To me it sounds like an old rule, obsolete in today's UO.

PS: Jade wishes to build igloos in the snow....
.. and for a fishing hole that produces fish as 11th or 12th year Vet Item
-- whenever UO development/programmers can find time, please.
Thank you in advance!

Excuse me ????????????????

Players who pay for a monthly subscriptions have to go through a whole lot of trouble and ordeal to make other tamers, pay for scrolls and all the rest when they could MUCH MUCH AND MORE MUCH SIMPLIER just leave a pool of pets they are selling in their houses ????

I mean, it is ok that whatever problem there may be it is not fixed and the BURDEN is left on paying players' shoulders ??

And this sounds reasonable ?

Not to me, sorry.

To me what sounds MUCH, and MUCH more reasonable it letting tamers keep as many pets they want in their homes until they can sell them and fix the damn problems the game may have in OTHER WAYS which do not penalize paying customers in their chosen playing roles.

That's how I see it.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

Re license agreements...

 

[Cogniac]

Re: This thread

tl;dr

 

[Jade of Sonoma]

Hi Popps. I was replying to Tina Small since she had the same solution as myself. But, I agree with you. Once upon a time, tamers were able to tame as many animals as they wanted and keep them in houses. They used them for skill gains. That all changed the day the NIGHTMARE came along. That's when the BIG nightmare began. Suddenly all guilds who once thought tamers were whimps, wanted tamers to tame mares for them. Tamers were suddenly very popular. Anyone could buy and own a Mare or Dragon. Theives found an exploit and used mares for breaking into patio houses, to rob and carry items away. Mares could fetch and carry. Large Guilds became triumphant over the lands, buying Games with developed Tamers characters, who soon learned how to STOP and CONTROL the nightmare spawns so other tamers could not find mares to tame. Taming had to change. It was messy for a long time.

There are good reasons behind the constantly changing decisions and rules made by developers/programmers.

I can't see banning someone for leaving pets in a house. Allowing players to leave pets in houses, might be opening another pandora's box --

 

[Sabbath]

Considering how many times I have logged in to find my house filled with Gorillas... or even Dragons left behind as a joke by guildmates... it would be sad to be banned for that.

LMAO! UO may be the only game in the world where you can log in and find your house filled with gorillas -

Man I hate when that happens...Damn gorillas!

 

[Jade of Sonoma]

HAHAHAHA yes.. there's only one game in the world like UO!

 

[Sarsmi]

Go ahead and say that no one who ever started scripting only to gain in skill became tempted and decided to use scripting to do other things

I would never say something like that. That's as ignorant as saying that ALL people that script skills move onto real cheat scripts. I don't do ignorant. So you can stop pm'ing me asking.

Just say it, or stop using your "slippery slope" pet phrase, which doesn't apply here anyways. I'm not saying all skill scripters, just some. One would be enough to prove my point in fact.

A fact that is not in question. Not from me. I know that there have been people that have moved from skill scripting to cheat scripting. Just like I know some people that drive move onto vehicular homicide. That doesn't mean I think are driving should be illegal.

So you can agree it has happened at least once that someone who scripted for skill gain got tempted and moved on to scripting other things...therefore the postulation that scripting skill gain is a victimless crime is incorrect.

BTW you never addressed all 6 new scenarios I added to show that skill scripting hurts others.

Oh, then I am typing this really slow for your benefit....you look immature.

Thanks for the heads up but...I don't remember claiming to be mature. Where would the fun in that be?

 

[C4LISTO]

I've ready every single reply posted here and most of it is just saying the same thing over and over again.
There is no real win to this argument. Side A wants it legal, Side B wishes it was legal but won't do it because it isn't. Both sides at the bottom of all the bashing and bickering wish they could do it legally. But it still isn't legal. Why? because the dev's say so. Yes that is ultimately why. It's their game and they will run it like they want. Do they need a reason? NO. Scripting of any kind is illegal and will get you banned if caught. Should we talk about it and see if we can change their minds? Yes. Should we beat each other up over something deep down most of us want? NO.

Changes do happen. But threads like this don't contribute to those changes. Simply because it's 2 or 3 people in a game of 150k bickering over their beliefs under a thread that has nothing to do with their topic. True change happens when you take your beliefs to the Developers in an organized matter be it on here or by e-mail. Open a topic for everyone to post their beliefs. No bashing no rebuttal. You post your opinion and let it go at that. Others can do the same. See if you can get a mod to remove any posts that are off topic or double posts. Once a broad basis has been confirmed that the change is either wanted or not, then you can move on to debate.


Just agree to disagree and shake hands on this point. Neither of you has really definitively won an argument here. Simply because there really is no argument. It was ultimately a question of should it be legal. And both sides wish it was but currently it isn't. Somehow the argument got lost in conjecture and insults along with a side debate whether skill scripting effected others which really had no bearing as if it were legalized it would not have any ill effect due to it being available to everyone.



Thread back on track!!!
OP it really sucks that you got banned for something so lame. I'm sure someone paged on you because most people afk train disco on a bunch of Cu Sidhe's and they assumed you were doing the same.

 

[popps]

I can't see banning someone for leaving pets in a house. Allowing players to leave pets in houses, might be opening another pandora's box --

So, banning for leaving pets in the house should never happen but it should not be allowed, either ? I do not understand.

Personally, I think that if there are problems in the game they should be fixed without causing other problems to other players who are just playing the game they pay for, trying to have fun from it.

 

[popps]

Both sides at the bottom of all the bashing and bickering wish they could do it legally. But it still isn't legal. Why? because the dev's say so. Yes that is ultimately why. It's their game and they will run it like they want.

You know what I really do not understand ?

We had in Ultima Online Blackrock speeded up skill gains (players would become GM real fast...), we had the release of a whole lot of Alacrity Scrolls which also sped up skill gains and quite some, and recently we had the skill gain scrolls dropping at Champ Spawns.

I mean, these are all designed skill sped up gains, a pattern that has been going on for quite some time now.

To me, this shows that designers in this game have no problem with gaining skills faster and, actually, they help it with new designed content.

So, in all honestly, I do not understand all of the fuss about skill gains, really.

Gaining skill is all it is, gaining skill. The Developers over time have designed and released new content which helps it and make it faster. This means, at least to me, that gaining skill, even when fast and sped up is a good thing and welcomed.

That's at least my impression.

 

[AesSedai]

- Woo! I win UO:
set ALL skill = 1200

Pfft, now I can go have fun. Rules? Screw UO's rules, they don't apply to me because they're obviously pointless & uncalled for!

Why even have production shards when we could all just play by test center rules and not have to illegally script anything?
Yay!
Cheating wins again!

I mean it's a game and we should all be at the top of our in-game skills instantly, right?

(I'm the banker in Monopoly and I have stashed away $1,000s. I do have 2 aces up my sleeve, fellow poker pals. Likewise I gained skills in UO by illegally scripting them.... but you should have too & you are ignant for not doing so yourself. Aww. Now Monopoly, poker, and UO are dull. So boring & lame. Hmm, what's next? Why not just play tic-tac-toe and be done with them? Sounds great, at least cheating doesn't exist there, even though the cat's game is most prominent once you figure it out, heh. I know! I can play paper-rock-scissors and change the rules so that I win everytime! Paper packages scissors. Rock tears paper. Scissors bash rock. Awesome! Who needs to follow rules? Cheating is so much fun!)

I would like to give an honorary upside-down dancing green veggie award to all that have valiantly participated in this silly game that someone started, thought they could win, but had already lost from the beginning. My heart goes out to all the brave warriors in this thread that tried to break the wall & permit others to observe sound logic.
Bravo, you diligently tried, but the brickwall tends to win when it doesn't have any ears to hear in the first place.
And now for the most excellent and silly trophy. Well deserved all, well deserved:

 

[molinaro]

I find this funny because it is not a bug or exploit or anything. If the game mechanics allow you to do it, then it should be legal. If EA does not like it when you lock a pet in your house..

Well... That's their fault, the game mechanics are there, and most players like Black Sun, does not even know that it is one of their messed up rules of theirs.

I don't understand that attitude at all. Are you seriously only capable of following the rules when you are forced to follow them? Are you completely incapable of simply deciding to follow the rules?

Can't you be the one to force yourself to follow the rules? It's scary to think you feel the need to be forced into following them by the game instead of being able to control yourself.

 

[molinaro]

So EAMythic should start banning all the players who train a combat skill on a golem too... right?

Your logic makes no freaking sense. If someone wants to be creative in how they level up their character... who the hell is anyone to insist that they be punished?

What I imagine when I read about this... is some irate dipstick who manually trained a skill over years and years of effort, only to go on an endless bitchfest over how it was unfair that another player was intelligent enough to figure out a cheaper, easier, better way to train the same skill.

A successful goal to make the other person pay for their genius?

Seriously... why would anyone in this thread care if someone else was training their character creatively, in their own home? Are people really that pathetic that they need to worry so much about what other people are doing instead of just having fun themselves?

I generally find that the people who go around looking for unattended macroers or just to page on people period, are for the most part only doing it to get a rise out of having the GMs punish someone.

Like paging on someone is an accomplishment, a badge of honor or something.

well kudos to your meaningless existance I say.

A meaningless existance is one where you lack the will to play by the rules.

 

[D'Amavir]

So you can agree it has happened at least once that someone who scripted for skill gain got tempted and moved on to scripting other things...therefore the postulation that scripting skill gain is a victimless crime is incorrect.

So driving a car is a crime now? Because at least one person has moved from that to vehicular homicide. Gotcha. Very brilliant logic there.

Thanks for the heads up but...I don't remember claiming to be mature. Where would the fun in that be?

Glad we agree. No wonder you act the way you do.

 

[D'Amavir]

- Woo! I win UO:
set ALL skill = 1200

Pfft, now I can go have fun. Rules? Screw UO's rules, they don't apply to me because they're obviously pointless & uncalled for!

Why even have production shards when we could all just play by test center rules and not have to illegally script anything?
Yay!

The difference is that some people enjoy training the same skill over and over for 11+ years. Some don't. I know you are all about just having 'your' way, but some of us want more than just getting 'our' way.

Cheating wins again!

Usually. That's why this game is in the dumper. People like you tying up GM's because of someone training a skill instead of letting them focus on REAL issues in the game. Imagine how much GM time would be freed up if there was no more 'I saw this guy in his house hiding over and over to gain skill. Stop him! He is giving me nightmares!" pages.

I mean it's a game and we should all be at the top of our in-game skills instantly, right?

If that's what you want, sure. Enjoy it.

(I'm the banker in Monopoly and I have stashed away $1,000s. I do have 2 aces up my sleeve, fellow poker pals. Likewise I gained skills in UO by illegally scripting them.... but you should have too & you are ignant for not doing so yourself. Aww. Now Monopoly, poker, and UO are dull. So boring & lame. Hmm, what's next? Why not just play tic-tac-toe and be done with them? Sounds great, at least cheating doesn't exist there, even though the cat's game is most prominent once you figure it out, heh. I know! I can play paper-rock-scissors and change the rules so that I win everytime! Paper packages scissors. Rock tears paper. Scissors bash rock. Awesome! Who needs to follow rules? Cheating is so much fun!)

Ignant. Training the same skills after 11+ years is fun for YOU. I get it. Some people have minds that find the same things over and over to be fun. Not everyone feels the same though. I don't enjoy taming bulls anymore in game. Its not fun. I know, me having a GM tamer would give you more nightmares. Sorry about that.

I would like to give an honorary upside-down dancing green veggie award to all that have valiantly participated in this silly game that someone started, thought they could win, but had already lost from the beginning. My heart goes out to all the brave warriors in this thread that tried to break the wall & permit others to observe sound logic.

Thank you, I did try. But, as you have shown, logic has no place amongst the 'my way or no way!' crowd. But, thank you all the same.

Bravo, you diligently tried, but the brickwall tends to win when it doesn't have any ears to hear in the first place.
And now for the most excellent and silly trophy. Well deserved all, well deserved:

You are telling me. I should have known better than to respond to people that quoted me with nonsense and try to get them to actually have a mature discussion about a topic. I am not surprised really. But I also hope for more from my fellow posters. But, instead, I get nonsense.

 

[D'Amavir]

A meaningless existance is one where you lack the will to play by the rules.

Yes. All of America is a meaningless existence because they saw rules that they didn't agree with and took a stand. An entire country was formed by a small group of people that were able to see past the 'well, they said its illegal so they must be right and it should be illegal' mentality and ask 'Why?'. And entire country formed by a small group of people that wanted more than just 'because we said so!' from their government.

And all those dirty women being able to vote!?! Meaningless existence. They should have just accepted that it was illegal for them to vote. Don't they know that that was the law? Don't they have enough respect for themselves to follow the law? The nerve.

Yes, all laws are right and we should never ever question them. Ever. Never. Ever. We should never even ask why they are laws. We should just follow them blindly and never once question them. Else we will suffer through a meaningless existence while those that do follow blindly live grand lives.

 

[AesSedai]

- Now read your replies to me & act as if I said them to you.
Then quote away and prove how wrong 'I' am for only thinking of 'myself' (maybe then you'll get the big picture as to why breaking the rules / cheating is bad, no matter how inconsequential you personally feel it is -yes I'm talking about the specific subject of illegally scripting skill gains, as well as other forms of cheating too, just to be blatantly clear, for you.)

So, why haven't you taken it all the way and suggested to set All skills = awesome, as per yet another example I provided you with? After all, wouldn't that avoid any illegal scripting or any of your other arguments you've made to justify cheating? After all, isn't that all that cheating skill gains is providing? Enjoy the game, enjoy the UO that you are cheating yourself and every other participant out of; for that is all that cheating ultimately rewards you with.

You definitely win something. Congratulations!!

 

[AesSedai]

Yes, all laws are right and we should never ever question them. Ever. Never. Ever.

- Ridiculous Extremism in an attempt to save a fight that has failed...
Just because one disagrees with cheating Does Not mean they are docile little sheep in the flock...
You are only fooling yourself if you think otherwise (<-- there you love to learn and gain new knowledge... I thought that was pretty common knowledge, but there you go, in case you didn't know)

 

[D'Amavir]

- Ridiculous Extremism in an attempt to save a fight that has failed...
Just because one disagrees with cheating Does Not mean they are docile little sheep in the flock...

Disagreement is one thing. I disagree with a lot of things. But I am mature enough to express that disagreement without resorting to petty insults like you guys.

The point, that you missed, is that while I am trying to actually UNDERSTAND why something is illegal while all the other things that do the same thing aren't. I am trying to UNDERSTAND why people like you are soooo gungho about your 'cheating is bad' mentality instead of actually even trying to understand what I am asking. I am not saying 'cheating is good'. Never have I said that. What I have said, from the start, is that in the grand scheme of things in UO, tying up GM's by having them chase down people doing nothing but training skill is a poor use of their time. What I am saying, again from the start, is that with things like soulstones (legal), advanced characters (legal), powergaming (legal) and SoT's (legal) in game now, the fact that one thing that accomplishes the same goal is illegal. What I am saying, yet again from the start, is that people are more tied up on the LABEL of skill scripting as opposed to the actual act of it. They have admitted that if that label was changed, they would be the first ones to script.

So, since having it illegal does nothing to stop it from happening AND people can accomplish the same thing without it if they choose AND the end result gives no one an advantage any more than the 'legal' options AND the label ends up causing nothing but animosity from both sides (as seen from your posts), why have the label as it is now?

Does this mean that I think everyone should be able to just say Set Skill to get to 120? No, that's a ridiculous leap. Sadly, its also one I expected from you. Does this mean that I think people should be allowed to dupe freely? No, of course not. That is yet another stupid slippery slope failure. Does this mean that I think people should be able to speedhack during pvp to get an advantage of others that don't? No, of course not. Yet another stupid leap.

I know its silly and a waste of time to try to get people like you to actually discuss anything like this. As you have shown, respect for people that disagree with you is not a priority for you. Which, again, proves my point that animosity caused by a label is damaging to the game.

You are only fooling yourself if you think otherwise (<-- there you love to learn and gain new knowledge... I thought that was pretty common knowledge, but there you go, in case you didn't know)

Not sure what I am fooling myself about. Do I believe that people that don't question things and just follow things they are told are misguided? Absolutely. You disagree. You think that if someone tells you that something is illegal, even without any reasoning behind it, then you will just accept that and move on. That is your right. My right is to be able to question things that I either don't understand or not agree with.

 

[D'Amavir]

- Now read your replies to me & act as if I said them to you.
Then quote away and prove how wrong 'I' am for only thinking of 'myself' (maybe then you'll get the big picture as to why breaking the rules / cheating is bad, no matter how inconsequential you personally feel it is -yes I'm talking about the specific subject of illegally scripting skill gains, as well as other forms of cheating too, just to be blatantly clear, for you.)

You don't have an issue with the act. You have an issue with the fact that the act is illegal and that people doing the act are 'cheating'. Once you remove that label, you won't have a problem with the act. I know you won't admit that, but truth is truth.

So, why haven't you taken it all the way and suggested to set All skills = awesome, as per yet another example I provided you with?

Because I think its an idiotic leap. You don't. You like the idea and think its awesome so I support your right to feel that way.

After all, wouldn't that avoid any illegal scripting or any of your other arguments you've made to justify cheating?

Again, I don't even attempt to justify cheating. I attempt to discuss things in order to better understand WHY it is cheating. And I try to better understand WHY people like you feel the way you do.

After all, isn't that all that cheating skill gains is providing? Enjoy the game, enjoy the UO that you are cheating yourself and every other participant out of; for that is all that cheating ultimately rewards you with.

See, you are hung up on the word 'cheating' and you can't even see the forest through the trees. You don't mind the act, as I keep telling you, you mind the label on the act. Without that label, these boards wouldn't be flooded with new threads from people like you every day whining about it. Then again, knowing you, you would still whine. But, for normal people, I think it might cut down on all the animosity.

You definitely win something. Congratulations!!

Again, that's the difference between you and your crew and me. I know that in whatever debate class you took, the first thing they told you to do whenever you thought you made a point is to run around with your hands in the air screaming 'I win! I win! I win!' at the top of your lungs.

Me? I follow the Emmitt Smith philosophy. Emmitt led the league in touchdowns. However, each time he scored one, he didn't run around like it was the first time he had done so in his life. He took the ball and made his way off the field for the next play to begin. His exact quote in regards to his philosophy was "Act like you have been there before". Words to live by.

So carry on with the "I win! You lose!" mindset. Whatever works for ya really. I do know that if I said half the petty insulting things that you and your crew have said, this thread would have been locked long long ago. But, since I wanted it to stay open and because I have more maturity, I didn't stoop.

 

[Nestorius]

I find this funny because it is not a bug or exploit or anything. If the game mechanics allow you to do it, then it should be legal. If EA does not like it when you lock a pet in your house..

Well... That's their fault, the game mechanics are there, and most players like Black Sun, does not even know that it is one of their messed up rules of theirs.

My sentiments exactly. If UO wants to posit vague laws like this, they ought to act like a real MMPROG and post signs IN-GAME with warnings forbidding the illegal activities. AOS has been here for six years now. One would think an in-game solution might have been found already.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

It's really very simple. When I bought the game and loaded it on my pc I agreed to the terms of service. I made a promise to abide by those rules. My promises mean something to me, I keep them.

There is no need for any of the rest of this 'scripting' argument. The question was 'is it illegal to lock game creatures in your house'

The answer is, while it's permissible (though inadvisable) to leave pets in the house, it is not allowed to lock untamed creatures in, it is classed as 'blocking'.

My 2cp's.

It is their game, they set the rules, they administrate the rules as they darn well see fit to. They can be total Asshats about it, they can be totally absentee Administrators. To repeat it is their game, they set the rules, they administrate the rules as they darn well see fit.

I am not required to like how they do their job. I am required to try to the best of my ability to live within their rules and play the game to the best of my ability the way they intended it to be played.

I AM NOT REQUIRED TO PLAY UO. I can take my subscription fee(s) and go play some other game(s).

All the Arm Chair Lawyering on either side of this is simply people stating their opinions on what the rules mean or don't mean. They are all of the same value, just an opinion (aka don't mean squat).

In my opinion, what would be more constructive is to have a discussion on the ...

Merits of having Mob's in the House ...
Merits of having Mob's in the House for resources ...
Macro'd (attended or unattended) training of skills ...

A discussion NOT by the UOTeam, rather by us the players of UO, that they can take and evaluate how WE THE PLAYERS feel about the subjects.

 

[Kaleb]

I will macro my skills unattended or not after nearly 12 years the "old method" puts me to sleep, I do not use that scripting program but believe unattended macroing of skills should be legal if using UOA. It was legal at one time, back in the days of dialup the ban was put into place to free up bandwidth on the servers. Now days there is only a fraction of the players there was then and is the days of broadband so bandwidth issues should not be a problem.

 

[Tasslehoff]

Question.

If a player has a tamer who is taming animals to sell but the stablles are full of the tamer's animals which are for personal use (i.e. hunting), can this player temporarily keep the animals for sale in the player's home until they sell ?

Since some animals do are aggressive and the player may have other characters, perhaps weak ones as crafters or similar, does the player have a right to keep these animals confined in an area of the house where they would not kill other characters when they log in like for crafting or similar ?

Also, since tamers are limited by 5 pets' slots max, if a tamer is selling, say, Giant Beetles, or Cu-Sidhes or Nightmares or whatever, it is not possible to keep 5-6 animals all tamed.

Especially for tamed animals for sale that come in different colors, it is a very good business practise to have a few of them of various colors so that if a customer comes looking for some color one has more chances to make the sale. If the tamer has only 1 color available, and this color does not match the customer's desire, the tamer loses the sale opportunity. Having instead 5-6 different colors always at hand raises the chances to have the right color ready for when a customer asks.

Therefore, untill they sell, the tamer may need to have a number of pets of different colors released in the home, perhaps restricted in an area where they cannot harm other, weaker characters, and then sell them one by one until they are all gone.

I would hope this is ok as it is in line with the game as for playing the role of a tamer, right?

tamers get alot more then 5 stable slots dude.mine isn't 120's out yet and i can fit 8 atleast

 

[BartofCats]

Blacksun pointed out the Terms of Service here:
"It is not legal to block NPC's or monsters with objects. The deliberate blocking of monsters or NPC’s with objects such as boats, crates, house tiles, invisible pets or invisible players with the intent to gain an unfair advantage, like skill gain or monster killing is considered an exploit and can result in account penalties. This also applies to “animal pens” or “Safe areas” in the game world. If the animal/monster cannot damage you, then you are abusing the system and will be asked to stop."

I am not defending the OP, however by EA's own rules they didn't seem to ask the OP to stop what they were doing, just slapped them with the ban stick. There could be more to this story then we are being told of course..... and probably way more than they are letting on.

 

[Petra Fyde]

They couldn't ask him, he wasn't there.

 

[Zodia]

But, to repeat. Scripting for skill gain is illegal. It is illegal to script skill gain. There is a rule in game against scripting for skill gain. In UO, you are not allowed to script skill gain. How many more ways should I say the exact same thing?

Oh yeah, scripting for skill gain is illegal. In case you didn't know. Look at me, I made a point. But even that one I bet you won't get.

That's not true. Your definition of scripting is incorrect.

Attended scripting using UO-approved programs (like UOA) is perfectly legal.

 

[D'Amavir]

That's not true. Your definition of scripting is incorrect.

Attended scripting using UO-approved programs (like UOA) is perfectly legal.

I think most of us know what we are talking about when we say scripting skill. I don't think anyone, except you, is confusing that term with the use of UOA.

 

[Zodia]

I think most of us know what we are talking about when we say scripting skill. I don't think anyone, except you, is confusing that term with the use of UOA.

You are wrong about this as well.
I have seen many threads here about UOA scripting. You can do incredibly complex and involved scripts with UOA. I do them all the time, and am doing one right now training ninjitsu in another window as I type this. The difference is I am attended scripting using a legal 3rd party program. I have resource gathering scripts in UOA that gather wood or mine that would fool many of the "KILL ALL SCRIPTERS" crowd into thinking I am doing something illegal. You said "scripting for skill gain is illegal. always." This is simply untrue, as I am scripting my skill gain RIGHT NOW completely legally.
There are quite a few people on this board who are completely unaware that plenty of the so-called scripting they are witnessing is 100% legal. You seem to share this ignorance.

Edit: In fact, in this thread > http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=139553 in post #39 you agree that UOA is scripting.

 

[D'Amavir]

You are wrong about this as well.
I have seen many threads here about UOA scripting. You can do incredibly complex and involved scripts with UOA. I do them all the time, and am doing one right now training ninjitsu in another window as I type this. The difference is I am attended scripting using a legal 3rd party program. I have resource gathering scripts in UOA that gather wood or mine that would fool many of the "KILL ALL SCRIPTERS" crowd into thinking I am doing something illegal. You said "scripting for skill gain is illegal. always." This is simply untrue, as I am scripting my skill gain RIGHT NOW completely legally.
There are quite a few people on this board who are completely unaware that plenty of the so-called scripting they are witnessing is 100% legal. You seem to share this ignorance.

I agree with you and have said the exact same thing several times. I was referring to this specific thread and the discussion we are having currently about the illegality of 'scripted' skill gaining. I wasn't referring to every thread on the subject, just this one. As I said, I think it has been firmly established (in this thread specifically) what we are talking about when we say 'scripted' (again, in this thread specifically).

I believe you are taking the quote you quoted out of context and don't really understand what it was supposed to mean.

 

[Zodia]

I agree with you and have said the exact same thing several times. I was referring to this specific thread and the discussion we are having currently about the illegality of 'scripted' skill gaining. I wasn't referring to every thread on the subject, just this one. As I said, I think it has been firmly established (in this thread specifically) what we are talking about when we say 'scripted' (again, in this thread specifically).

Fair enough, I've just seen so many threads where people are talking about what a scripter was doing and I think to myself "I could do that completely legally."
Resource gathering, skill gain, etc can all be scripted quite easily and legally and as long as you are attended (get a big monitor like me) there is nothing wrong with it.

I constantly see people say "Why aren't they banning the scripters??" -- well, maybe because they aren't doing anything bannable.

 

[BartofCats]

They couldn't ask him, he wasn't there.

I know, I read the OP's statement. And they did not warn the OP. Point is, unless there is more to the OP's story, (and there probably is) EA's GM's failed to do their job and respect their own TOS, which you, I and everyone else here have accepted, and changed the rules to satisify their own viewpoint. I know the wasn't there. A warning should have gone out first, not just an immediate ban like that.

 

[D'Amavir]

Fair enough, I've just seen so many threads where people are talking about what a scripter was doing and I think to myself "I could do that completely legally."
Resource gathering, skill gain, etc can all be scripted quite easily and legally and as long as you are attended (get a big monitor like me) there is nothing wrong with it.

I constantly see people say "Why aren't they banning the scripters??" -- well, maybe because they aren't doing anything bannable.

I am with you 100% there. I talk to a GM about 3-4 times a month because someone sees me 'scripting' with UOA and calls the GM. And, in 11+ years, I have never lost an account. Because after they show up and ask me what color my robe is or who crafted my weapon, they move on and I continue.

 

[Sarsmi]

I've ready every single reply posted here and most of it is just saying the same thing over and over again.
There is no real win to this argument. Side A wants it legal, Side B wishes it was legal but won't do it because it isn't. Both sides at the bottom of all the bashing and bickering wish they could do it legally. But it still isn't legal. Why? because the dev's say so. Yes that is ultimately why. It's their game and they will run it like they want. Do they need a reason? NO. Scripting of any kind is illegal and will get you banned if caught. Should we talk about it and see if we can change their minds? Yes. Should we beat each other up over something deep down most of us want? NO.

Changes do happen. But threads like this don't contribute to those changes. Simply because it's 2 or 3 people in a game of 150k bickering over their beliefs under a thread that has nothing to do with their topic. True change happens when you take your beliefs to the Developers in an organized matter be it on here or by e-mail. Open a topic for everyone to post their beliefs. No bashing no rebuttal. You post your opinion and let it go at that. Others can do the same. See if you can get a mod to remove any posts that are off topic or double posts. Once a broad basis has been confirmed that the change is either wanted or not, then you can move on to debate.


Just agree to disagree and shake hands on this point. Neither of you has really definitively won an argument here. Simply because there really is no argument. It was ultimately a question of should it be legal. And both sides wish it was but currently it isn't. Somehow the argument got lost in conjecture and insults along with a side debate whether skill scripting effected others which really had no bearing as if it were legalized it would not have any ill effect due to it being available to everyone.



Thread back on track!!!
OP it really sucks that you got banned for something so lame. I'm sure someone paged on you because most people afk train disco on a bunch of Cu Sidhe's and they assumed you were doing the same.

I don't wish it was legal, I think that is one solution to the problem of inequality but TBH what I would really like is for the devs to be able to stop scripting entirely. I'd also really like it if everyone played legitimately and didn't cheat. Both of those wishes are pipe dreams, but hey, that's what I really want in regards to UO.

And yeah this thread got horribly off track. But d'amavir stopped replying to me so it'll probably peter out when he stops replying to other people who are making holes in his argument as well.

*shrugs*