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D'Amavir
Guest
Won't work. Scripts can scan pixels and match whatever they want. As long as scriptors are smarter than the developers the developers won't be able to keep them out.
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RichDC
Guest
Randomise it, some are match the pixel some are answer the question. Simple questions(again randomised) like which of these has 2legs, and show a picture of spider, ogre, serpentine dragon.
Its not a flawless idea of course and im sure they could eventually work out all possibilities and write a script...but it would slow them down.
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D'Amavir
Guest
And how would you feel if you are out mining and you get a bunch of 'answer this or get booted' questions? Fun? Say you are mid fight with a val ele and one pops up. Fun?
Coming up with things that scripters have to deal with is one thing. But making non scripters suffer because it just drives more and more people to scripting. You know how many more scripters started after BoDs were introduced? How many started when heartwood quests were introduced? How many started when ore and wood was randomized? I can answer, a lot.
I think most people on these boards want MORE scripters. At least that is how it seems when I see ideas from them. Or they really don't comprehend what scripts can do versus what non scripters have to suffer.
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vanyon
Guest
Recently returned vet here,
Perhaps developer's should look into removing so much of the tedium that is involved in this game and that would help reduce scripting. I recently came back and so much of this game is vastly tedious and coded around scripters.
It's just disheartening to normal players to go check out library turn in rewards and see how hopeless and tedious it would be to get the reward. It is much easier to just buy the reward from a player vendor(who most likely is a scripter.)
Or the player trying to fill large bods and find out that they made resources random spawn to "deter" scripters.
Or someone doing heartwood quests for a runic and battling the random number generator who gets disgruntled when they realize they will in all likelyhood never see their runic.
Or a player having to work skills up so they can join in with other players doing peerless or champ spawns or pvp. Going hours without gain or having to depend on GGS just makes most people want to pull their hair out. Or having to spend hours farming up npc's to get the massive bulk of materials needed to work some skills. (why did they not make regs and scrolls have the 500 amount like iron and boards anyway????)
They need new players in the game but a new player is not going to enjoy the tedium they run into.
I think they need to revamp their random number generator and put in guaranteed rewards so new and old players have something to work for instead of relying on scripters or a lucky hit on the random number generator.
I am not for scripters, but when I go out and try gathering resources or try for a library turn in, it gets disheartening and it is much easier to just buy the items from a scripters vendor than spend days,weeks, or months doing repetitive mind numbing tasks.
Perhaps developer's should look into removing so much of the tedium that is involved in this game and that would help reduce scripting. I recently came back and so much of this game is vastly tedious and coded around scripters.
It's just disheartening to normal players to go check out library turn in rewards and see how hopeless and tedious it would be to get the reward. It is much easier to just buy the reward from a player vendor(who most likely is a scripter.)
Or the player trying to fill large bods and find out that they made resources random spawn to "deter" scripters.
Or someone doing heartwood quests for a runic and battling the random number generator who gets disgruntled when they realize they will in all likelyhood never see their runic.
Or a player having to work skills up so they can join in with other players doing peerless or champ spawns or pvp. Going hours without gain or having to depend on GGS just makes most people want to pull their hair out. Or having to spend hours farming up npc's to get the massive bulk of materials needed to work some skills. (why did they not make regs and scrolls have the 500 amount like iron and boards anyway????)
They need new players in the game but a new player is not going to enjoy the tedium they run into.
I think they need to revamp their random number generator and put in guaranteed rewards so new and old players have something to work for instead of relying on scripters or a lucky hit on the random number generator.
I am not for scripters, but when I go out and try gathering resources or try for a library turn in, it gets disheartening and it is much easier to just buy the items from a scripters vendor than spend days,weeks, or months doing repetitive mind numbing tasks.
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D'Amavir
Guest
Exactly. Developers are coding more and more things in favor of scripters. The result? More scripters. Its common sense really.
There. Fixed it for you...
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woden
Guest
The gump could pop up every so often before your tool makes a strike. No concern of elementals spawning then. =P Don't see a problem either way with lumberjacking.
I think it's a great idea!
Just ignore D'Amavir.
Every time a scripter thread appears you can guarantee he will be in it blaming EA for all the scripters, etc.
Is he a scripter trying to point the blame elsewhere so he can continue his illegal operations?
My money is on yes. :loser:
Every time a scripter thread appears you can guarantee he will be in it blaming EA for all the scripters, etc.
Is he a scripter trying to point the blame elsewhere so he can continue his illegal operations?
My money is on yes. :loser:
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D'Amavir
Guest
Absolutely! Pointing out ways that scripters can get around certain ideas is my subtle way of making sure that I can script still. You got me. So, with that in mind, please at a gump that will make me have to spend two minutes downloading a new script that takes care of it while you non scripters will have to deal with it forever. Please do.
You know who makes the best programmers? Hackers. Why? Because they know what to do to try to stop their own kind. You know what kind of developers we need in UO? Scripters. Why? Because they code ways to do things in game much better than the regular developers do. Don't believe me? Read this board once in a while and see all the people complaining about scripters. And then read the scripter boards and see how happy they are with the changes that come out from the dev team.
Know your enemy. But that concept is lost on some.
And oh yeah, EA has no responsibility at all for the current scripter 'problems'. None. In fact, I think we should blame canada. After all, its their fault that things like Heartwood, BoDs and random resources caused a major increase in scripters in UO. Again, don't believe me? Read a scripter board once in a while and follow the discussion about how many new members they have since those changes came in and how happy they are with them. Nah, EA has nothing at all to do with development on UO. BLAME CANADA!
Like in the forum i took that pic from. a few replied: Most people that harvest resources would not mind one bit that that screen would pop up from time to time as long as they know that the work that they are doing is meaningful, the only people that should have problems with the system are the scripters themselves.
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D'Amavir
Guest
What was I supposed to deny? Do you want me to deny what you say is true or agree with what you say? I can do either, just let me know. You are, after all, right about everything.
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D'Amavir
Guest
Then I definitely think that EA should add something like this. It seems ludicrous that something so simple would completely eliminate the scripter problem in UO but years have gone by with it still being a problem. Can we get a dev to comment on this to explain why this easy fix hasn't been added to the game years ago?
Show me where I said it was an easy Fix? I seen it in another forum thought it was cool. Scripting is so out of control that its not going to take an easy fix reguardless on what the devs decide to do, so far the best method is to patch a few new chilocs (or something that wont allow you to log in unless patched) a couple times a week, it takes scripter man a couple days to fix/update his cancer.
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D'Amavir
Guest
So you want them to add something difficult to put into place that also will do nothing to stop scripters? Ok. I am with you so far. Not sure why, but ok.
The only thing I agree with from you right here is that 'it takes a scripter man a couple of days to fix/update his cancer'. And, after that? Scripters go back to normal and everyone else is stuck dealing with a new gump. Sure, its not biggie to click on a gump from time to time. But, don't you think that the developers' time would be better served adding things to the game that will have some impact instead of difficult changes like this that will only impact non scripters?
Hey, I get it. You want scripting stopped. I feel ya. However, adding things that non scripters have to deal with every day but scripters can just bypass in no time is not the way to go.
But what do I know? I am just a scripter that thinks things like this are a waste of time because they won't stop me at all. So, since they won't stop me at all and won't have any impact on my personal scripting, I am against them. Most logical.
Oh, and name calling really shows your maturity level.
The best solution is to put in hard caps on what you can get per account per week. That way you can only get max 200 BODs per day per account not 10000, or everyone can get 1000 frostwood or 1000 valorite per day per account.
As to why nothing has ever been done. Ask yourself who profits besides scriptors from scriptors.
As to why nothing has ever been done. Ask yourself who profits besides scriptors from scriptors.
its something and if say it only came up random after the character meets a certain time frame doing some sort of repetitive action and can be used as a tool for gm's. any investment to stop cheating and scripting is a good investment in the end it would pay for its self with renewed hope of players reopening their accounts assured EA is ready to fight this plague. DEV time to fight cheating vs content? lol!!! Dont you think we have enough already? Maybe at least enough to allow some time for balance and scripting/cheating issues?
Sorry but yes in this thread you are being a troll You have offered no ideas or solutions, if as many people would come up with ideas of how to fix the problem as complain sometime we will hit the $ shot.
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D'Amavir
Guest
I have stated several times that the 'fix' for scripting is less things added to the game that encourage scripting. While you may disagree that things like Heartwood quests, random resources and BoD's encourage scripting, its still an 'idea'. Just because I disagree with your idea of making non scripters have to punch a gump does that mean its not an idea? Not at all. Just that I disagree with it.
If someone posts an idea to 'address' scripting and I see glaring issues with it, as this one has, then my 'idea' is to bring up those glaring issues to people that just can't see the glare. Call me a troll all you want, and again that says more about your maturity than about me so I don't mind. But I call it more troubleshooting. You posted an idea. I thought it was a pointless change that really did nothing at all to address the problem that you seemed to want addressed. So, I pointed out the flaw in it. Making resource gathering more enjoyable would cut down a lot on scripting. Sure, there will still be people doing it but you will cut it down a lot. Same with Heartwood quests. If those became less of a 'grind' and became more enjoyable you would see less people scripting those. As it stands now, and you can see this daily on boards like this, quite a lot of people script those. Again, there will still be people doing it. But you would cut down on it a lot more than your idea would.
I know a lot of scripters and a lot of script coders. I am not saying you don't but the simple fact is that your idea is so easily managed by a minor script change that it really would serve no purpose other than, as I stated, forcing non scripters into something while having no impact on scripters.
I know that no matter what I say on any thread whatsoever, people like you will accuse me of trolling. I really don't care. And if you really think your little idea will have any impact at all in scripting, you should push to get it put in place. I hope you do. I enjoy saying I told you so.
Its a bad idea. Is it a bad idea because it will keep 'me' from scripting? Nope. The fix for your little idea is just a new downloaded script away. And, with the limited development staff we have now, adding a difficult change like this that, in the end, does zero to fix the problem seems like a waste of resources.
If people that harvest regularly have no problem with this change then I don't see a problem with it either. Scripters won't have a problem with it. Non scripters won't have a problem with it. So, in the end, it will be a non factor. So, good use of development resources for sure.
If your idea of a discussion about an idea is everyone saying 'rah rah' to any idea you toss out no matter how silly it is, you might need to talk to someone professionally about your expectations. Sorry that I think your idea is worthless. Really, I am. I honestly wish you could come up with an idea that actually DID have an impact on scripting in UO. Really, I do. But, you haven't done that.
Just a thought.........
What about those registration forms which, to avoid automated activations, ask to people to write whatever text or numbers randomly appear in an image ?
I am not comouter expert but it seems to me that no scripter would be able to make a script capable of rightfully writing exactly whatever text appears in the image.....
Just make it so that players engaged in repetitive tasks get this, say every 20 minutes or so and those who fail to answer exactly get booted and investigated.
This verification system seems to work for registration forms, why couldn't it also work for scripters in UO ?
Well, I have no idea on who may have profited but I have an opinion on who has lost, and a lot also, IMHO, from scripting and cheating in Ultima Online.
Players who left the game disgusted from the rampant cheating have lost their fun, and the Company that owns the game that has lost players, and therefore subscriptions, because of cheating existing in their game.
That's at least how I see it.
I disagree.
The Developers can make any task as interesting as they want, but there will still, IMHO, be players out there who feel the need to script those tasks to make it more efficient, while they are watching TV or sleeping, whatever.
So, eradicating scripting from the game needs ways that make it NOT POSSIBLE to script, period.
Sure, making tasks interesting is important, but they are 2 separate issues.
Making tasks interesting will NOT, in my opinion, stop scripting at all.
Let's not forget that Ultima Online has a history of items and accounts sold for real money.
Being able to script can, sometimes, mean convenient increase of a potential revenue from then selling for real money either pixels or developed accounts.
I am sorry, but if we want to get Ultima Online rid of scripting we need to come up with a solution that actually blocks scripting from happening in the first place or make it possible that those who script are easily detected and banned, and all their accounts and contents deleted.
Personally, I would GLADLY accept the burden to have to enter a few text characters from a verification image every 20 minutes or so (see my idea a couple of posts above) if this can mean getting rid of scripting in UO once and for all.
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RichDC
Guest
Would it annoy people if every 2days they had to have a 5min patch?
I mean, nothing as such would need to change but mini-patches would stop the script engine running. I doubt they could update it fast enough to make it worthwile.
Something would need to be introduced to prevent pre-patch log in.
I mean, nothing as such would need to change but mini-patches would stop the script engine running. I doubt they could update it fast enough to make it worthwile.
Something would need to be introduced to prevent pre-patch log in.
Most of what D'Amavir says about why anti-script methods in the client won't work is accurate. Especially the bits about most anti-script methods actually encouraging people to script. It's sorta like how DRM encourages people into piracy, really.
See, the Voldemort program can pull any bit of information out of the client that a human can. It can give any order a human can. And more. It can do "random", it can respond to difficult situations, and it can adapt to anything new. The guys who make it tick are very talented indeed. Their programming skills are not what you'd call "average".
It is very, very hard to make a suggestion that will shut it down for good. And if a suggestion will not achieve that, then it is a bad suggestion - anything that doesn't stop the scripters helps them.
For example, say CAPTCHA was added to UO (that's the text-in-an-image system). The image would need to be sent from the game servers, because if the client generated it, then the Voldemort program would be able to determine the correct answer without even trying to read the image itself.
As to whether it could read a server-sent image? Well, that's another story. It's fairly likely it could (XRumer, the primary forum-spamming-bot-program, was just updated the other week - and it can read CAPTCHAs I have trouble reading myself), but even assuming it couldn't...
How many players would quit simply because the new system frustrated them? How many players would get incorrectly disconned/suspended/banned because they honestly had difficulty reading the obfuscated text, or killed when prompted in the middle of a battle? How much lag would the whole system generate, sending these images to X amount of players X amount of times during the day? Simply put, I think many players would prefer to have the scripters!
(Oh, and the "big time" scripters actually hire people to sit in front of computers. They teach 'em enough to talk to the GMs or run to a healer, but that's about it - the scripts do most of the work. A CAPTCHA would be totally ineffective against these outfits).
See, the Voldemort program can pull any bit of information out of the client that a human can. It can give any order a human can. And more. It can do "random", it can respond to difficult situations, and it can adapt to anything new. The guys who make it tick are very talented indeed. Their programming skills are not what you'd call "average".
It is very, very hard to make a suggestion that will shut it down for good. And if a suggestion will not achieve that, then it is a bad suggestion - anything that doesn't stop the scripters helps them.
For example, say CAPTCHA was added to UO (that's the text-in-an-image system). The image would need to be sent from the game servers, because if the client generated it, then the Voldemort program would be able to determine the correct answer without even trying to read the image itself.
As to whether it could read a server-sent image? Well, that's another story. It's fairly likely it could (XRumer, the primary forum-spamming-bot-program, was just updated the other week - and it can read CAPTCHAs I have trouble reading myself), but even assuming it couldn't...
How many players would quit simply because the new system frustrated them? How many players would get incorrectly disconned/suspended/banned because they honestly had difficulty reading the obfuscated text, or killed when prompted in the middle of a battle? How much lag would the whole system generate, sending these images to X amount of players X amount of times during the day? Simply put, I think many players would prefer to have the scripters!
(Oh, and the "big time" scripters actually hire people to sit in front of computers. They teach 'em enough to talk to the GMs or run to a healer, but that's about it - the scripts do most of the work. A CAPTCHA would be totally ineffective against these outfits).
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woden
Guest
Your arguments are very subjective.
My roomy for example, loves mining and doing the Heartwood quests. They drive me nuts but she finds them "meditative". I think that is why they are in place and exist the way they do. They are there to help add more diviersity to the UO community. My roomy also enjoys most of the crafting skills like cooking, mining, tinkering, etc. She often does tasks I find boring or wasteful, but she does it for fun!
My point here is that scripters ruin a lot of the games interactivity. Technically, if you don't like doing something in the game, then you shouldn't do it; you should find someone who does like doing that task and trade them something you earn for a task you like performing that they don't. This is how the game is intended to work.
BTW: My personal feeling is that since you're a self-proclaimed cheater you should be banned from the boards. =P
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D'Amavir
Guest
Actually, I use 'me' (notice it was 'me' not me) because anyone that tries to point out problems with bad 'script stopper' ideas is accused of being a scripter. I know you can't follow that, as most on this board can't, but I can.
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D'Amavir
Guest
If you notice, and I know you won't, I said the exact same thing that you are claiming you are disagreeing with. Let me show you.
"Making resource gathering more enjoyable would cut down a lot on scripting. Sure, there will still be people doing it but you will cut it down a lot. Same with Heartwood quests. If those became less of a 'grind' and became more enjoyable you would see less people scripting those. As it stands now, and you can see this daily on boards like this, quite a lot of people script those. Again, there will still be people doing it. But you would cut down on it a lot more than your idea would. "
Well, of course. But, as has been stating, wasting time on a difficult change that does NOTHING to stop scripting at all isn't the way to go. Come up with an idea that makes scripting impossible and I will agree.
No, they aren't. They are two parts of the same issue. One, there are people that script AFK because they make a living doing it. Two, there are people that script because they find certain mindnumbing tasks, well, mindnumbing. You want to get rid of One, definitely, but if you can't then getting rid of Two would definitely cut down on scripting.
Of course, I disagree. I know people now that script things like poison skill training for the simple fact that poisoning daggers over and over for weeks is mindnumbing. And I know for a fact that should poisoning become less mind numbing they would not script it. Right there shows you as being incorrect.
Think about the 'real money' issue for a second. As I have said, I don't believe that there is this mass of ex players waiting in the wings to open up an account as soon as 'scripting' is removed. But I do know that a lot of people would definitely quit if they were forced to do mind numbing things and weren't able to script them. So, as someone said, its all about money.
Right. And, the idea posted on this thread does not do that. Scripters know it, non scripters with a brain know it and EA knows it.
Then you should push to have that change made. Like I told the other nonsense person, I enjoy saying 'I told you so'. Please be another person here that proves me right. Please.
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D'Amavir
Guest
I couldn't agree more. Most of the people that whine about scripting (and I am not saying scripting is right) are just ignorant about what it does and doesn't do. And they are ignorant about how scripters can get around these little ideas in minutes while non scripters will have to deal with them forever.
The last thing we need is to have more players quit because of some dumb change being added to the game. If someone with a decent amount of intelligence could come up with a script proof change then I would be all for it. Like I said, they need to hire scripters as developers so that they would actually have someone on staff that knows what they are doing when it comes to this. Instead, they hire people from this board which just ends up getting things added that get worse and worse.
Well, if there is no technical way that scripting can be possibly stopped, then I see no other possible solution, to even the playing field among ALL players in UO, than to have the UO client itself be able to run all scripts itself.
That is, if scripting cannot be stopped at all, then at least allow ALL players to be able to script thus being able to play on an equal field.
That's at least my opinion.
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D'Amavir
Guest
That's the opinion of a lot of people. Back in 97, people were on these boards complaining about all the 'cheaters' using a 3rd party tool that enabled them to slap on a bandage on the fly or instantly disarm their weapon to drink a potion then rearm it again while not stopping running. It got pretty ugly. Then, UO came out in support of this third party tool. Now, most people use it. Even better, the devs began to add features into the client that allowed players to do the same things without this tool.
Times change.
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woden
Guest
I think someone has an agenda that isn't very well concealed.
Perhaps you could come up with a better idea rather than ridiculing others' ideas.
Insulting people's intelligence does nothing other than make people dislike you.
I've already dismissed all your spam on this thread because it is blatently geared towards manipulation of a change you want to take place.
Cheaters need to be stopped!
They do nothing for the game other than turn it into something other than was originally intended.
Once scripting is stopped, people won't do these "mind-numbing" tasks if they don't want to.
Others will find them entertaining and will profit.
Spend your time contributing rather than taking away please; until then I'll most likely be bypassing your diatribes.
Perhaps you could come up with a better idea rather than ridiculing others' ideas.
Insulting people's intelligence does nothing other than make people dislike you.
I've already dismissed all your spam on this thread because it is blatently geared towards manipulation of a change you want to take place.
Cheaters need to be stopped!
They do nothing for the game other than turn it into something other than was originally intended.
Once scripting is stopped, people won't do these "mind-numbing" tasks if they don't want to.
Others will find them entertaining and will profit.
Spend your time contributing rather than taking away please; until then I'll most likely be bypassing your diatribes.
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D'Amavir
Guest
Luckily I am not trying to conceal my agenda.
[quote[Perhaps you could come up with a better idea rather than ridiculing others' ideas.[/quote]
I have. But since you don't happen to agree with it I guess that means it doesn't exist? Gotcha.
And making false accusations does what beneficial exactly?
And what change are you claiming I want to take place? Less need for scripting? Absolutely. If wanting less need for scripting makes me the bad guy then bad guy I will be.
Agree. And the people that need to stop it are the people running and coding the game. Who clearly don't want to stop it.
Ok.
So instead of making less mind-numbing tasks you prefer that people just not do them and miss out on the rewards for them? Gotcha. I just disagree.
Scripters love these mind-numbing tasks. Your support of them seems to imply that you support that as well. But I won't make that claim as you tried to.
As explained before, your ignorance of what scripters can and can't do leads to you not understanding the flaws in ideas like the one on this thread. My 'contribution' is to try to help the ignorant be less ignorant on this subject. Your contribution, so far, has been nothing but lashing out at me for not supporting a clearly bad idea and blaming that lack of support on some hidden agenda.
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woden
Guest
The ideas on this thread are all good because they are "ideas". Constructing ideas for such things are good regardless of their effectiveness. They are a start and many can be improved to avoid these supposed flaws. A more helpful stance would be for you to take an idea and figure out a way to make it better. This approach would be more appreciated and positively viewed by everyone.
Finally, I really don't need to be wasting my time arguing with a stranger who makes repeatedly inane attempts to make themselves appear intelligent and all knowing. It's really frustrating seeing posts by you everywhere I read throughout these forums. And it's simply amazing how much of an expert you are at everything anyone brings up. I'll reiterate the point I made earlier by explaining to you that I'm not interested in your diatribes and would prefer you direct them elsewhere because I'm fairly certain you're a lost cause and unworthy of my attention...
Finally, I really don't need to be wasting my time arguing with a stranger who makes repeatedly inane attempts to make themselves appear intelligent and all knowing. It's really frustrating seeing posts by you everywhere I read throughout these forums. And it's simply amazing how much of an expert you are at everything anyone brings up. I'll reiterate the point I made earlier by explaining to you that I'm not interested in your diatribes and would prefer you direct them elsewhere because I'm fairly certain you're a lost cause and unworthy of my attention...
Perhaps the reason some ideas aren't being "improved" upon is because they simply cannot be made to work.
Remember, if an idea has even one flaw in it, then it's entirely unservicable (except, perhaps, as a learning tool). Only an idea which no one can pick holes in can fly.
Seems to me that supporting ideas that won't work is an entirely backwards way of looking at things. If people cannot understand what won't work, then they cannot understand what will.
For example. Take the anti-macro code, which made it so that repeated attempts to gain off a single target (or in a single location) wouldn't work. As an anti-script solution, it was horrible: It simply did not work because scripts can choose (even create!) multiple targets, and move around - in order to avoid having to do these extra tedious steps themselves (eg moving fish steaks in and out of a pile), more players started using scripts.
So... No more anti-macro code. It should never have been introduced in the first place. Good luck finding something "good" about it.
Remember, if an idea has even one flaw in it, then it's entirely unservicable (except, perhaps, as a learning tool). Only an idea which no one can pick holes in can fly.
Seems to me that supporting ideas that won't work is an entirely backwards way of looking at things. If people cannot understand what won't work, then they cannot understand what will.
For example. Take the anti-macro code, which made it so that repeated attempts to gain off a single target (or in a single location) wouldn't work. As an anti-script solution, it was horrible: It simply did not work because scripts can choose (even create!) multiple targets, and move around - in order to avoid having to do these extra tedious steps themselves (eg moving fish steaks in and out of a pile), more players started using scripts.
So... No more anti-macro code. It should never have been introduced in the first place. Good luck finding something "good" about it.
You know why players are leaving? Because the fun is getting sucked out of the game by insane grinding reward systems which only those who illegally script will do or those very few who are entertained by things such as watching paint dry.
I believe the solution is account based hard caps. Like you can get maximum 500 logs of frostwood per account per day, and there are tons of frostwood spots everywhere. Suddenly you will find many people getting frostwood. It is human nature that scriptors and the very few that still do it without scripting dont want it changed because the price of frostwood would drop. But suddenly many casual players are going to enjoy getting frostwood again, which would be an extra incentive to remain a subscriber. Scriptors can still script, but only for 30 minutes a day until they have reached their quota.
Now extend this to heartwood quests, bods and mining and other systems, putting in a quota and making it easier to get good stuff. Suddenly you open up many aspects of the game to casual players. If there are a lot more fun and rewarding systems in a game, less people will leave UO.
So is it better to reward the few or the majority? I think the question comes down to profitability. Lets estimate scriptor accounts at 15%, which equates to $1.5 million/yr revenue to EA. That is a lot of reasons why EA would not and has never done anything about scripting. But then because of the current insane grinding reward systems, many people have left too. This is the delima.
I believe the solution is account based hard caps. Like you can get maximum 500 logs of frostwood per account per day, and there are tons of frostwood spots everywhere. Suddenly you will find many people getting frostwood. It is human nature that scriptors and the very few that still do it without scripting dont want it changed because the price of frostwood would drop. But suddenly many casual players are going to enjoy getting frostwood again, which would be an extra incentive to remain a subscriber. Scriptors can still script, but only for 30 minutes a day until they have reached their quota.
Now extend this to heartwood quests, bods and mining and other systems, putting in a quota and making it easier to get good stuff. Suddenly you open up many aspects of the game to casual players. If there are a lot more fun and rewarding systems in a game, less people will leave UO.
So is it better to reward the few or the majority? I think the question comes down to profitability. Lets estimate scriptor accounts at 15%, which equates to $1.5 million/yr revenue to EA. That is a lot of reasons why EA would not and has never done anything about scripting. But then because of the current insane grinding reward systems, many people have left too. This is the delima.
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RichDC
Guest
Ive got it!!
The perfect way to reduce the amount of scriptors(not destroy totally im not that good!)
Make it so that lootable items are >or= to the highest end runics!
So simple! The reason scriptors script is because there is such a demand for runic hammers/fletching, this is because the loot from monsters is sooooooo crappy!!
If you increase the amount of high end loot from mobs, yes some people are still going to script, the casual players can get better items to be able to compete with items a smith can make! The only time the casual player will need wood is the occasional/frequent enhancements!
How easys was that!
Course its not going to completely stop it, but think of the most comonly scripted things(bods/mining/lumberjack/heartwood) they are all to supply the market with high end items...so...FLOOD the market with high end items, making it unprofitable to script(supply vs demand) some will stop, i believe most would.
The perfect way to reduce the amount of scriptors(not destroy totally im not that good!)
Make it so that lootable items are >or= to the highest end runics!
So simple! The reason scriptors script is because there is such a demand for runic hammers/fletching, this is because the loot from monsters is sooooooo crappy!!
If you increase the amount of high end loot from mobs, yes some people are still going to script, the casual players can get better items to be able to compete with items a smith can make! The only time the casual player will need wood is the occasional/frequent enhancements!
How easys was that!
Course its not going to completely stop it, but think of the most comonly scripted things(bods/mining/lumberjack/heartwood) they are all to supply the market with high end items...so...FLOOD the market with high end items, making it unprofitable to script(supply vs demand) some will stop, i believe most would.
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Connor_Graham
Guest
EA/Mythic has already told us that most of the scripter and duper accounts are being paid for with stolen and/or fake credit cards, so no, they aren't making anything from them.
and its a "very small minority".
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D'Amavir
Guest
But when you point out flaws its bad, in your mind.
Not all ideas can be 'made better'. Some of just bad ideas. Sorry you think that a bad idea shouldn't have its flaws pointed out in order for people to have a better understanding of the issues.
Far from all knowing. But I guarantee I know more about scripters and what they can do that you do. Which isn't a bad thing. If you knew more, you would be able to understand why some ideas here just aren't worth attempting. I get that you hate someone disagreeing with you and instead of understanding why it happens you choose to toss out insults. Really, I do.
Now you are just making things up and using lines you have read other people saying about other people. You won't find me acting as an 'expert' on nearly anything on these boards. I will point out things that I DO know about. You should do the same. Whenever you actually KNOW about something, you should discuss it in a productive manner. But you won't, of course. You would prefer to just latch onto someone else's ideas, bad or not, and ignore anything anyone that disagrees with it has to say.
Glad to hear that. While, as I said, I have endless energy when it comes to your type, I do prefer discussing things with people that are actually interested in other opinions than their own.
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D'Amavir
Guest
Exactly. Non scripters had to suffer through that change while scripters got around it in minutes. It did absolutely nothing to stop or even minimize scripting.
The same with this 'idea'. Its too much work for too little (read no) positive impact and, in the end, it will be just another thing that non scripters have to deal with and scripters laugh off.
Trust me, they laugh about stuff like this because they know that the more time the developers spend putting in things like this, the less time they have putting in things that actually WOULD impact them.
People on these boards always have a bad attitude when people point out the flaws in their ideas. As someone else said, they don't want a 'discussion' of their idea. They just want people to tell them how great it is regardless of how bad it really is.
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Connor_Graham
Guest
And you know all of them personally to have this accurate information?
Because that's the only way you'd know one way or the other. EA/Mythic, on the other hand, does know exactly how many stolen or fake credit cards they have to deal with, so I'd take their information over yours.
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D'Amavir
Guest
Me either!
You are right about part of that for sure. The most scripting happens in the areas of the most value. Right now, that is in runics and such. However, a flaw in that idea (and again, I am not just saying no because I 'want to script') is that, most likely, the scripters will just move to the more valuable areas and script there.
There are people that script ice fiends now, for example (I know they aren't high end, just using them as an example). I know not nearly as many as do runic quests and such. But that number would flip flop if ice fiends started dropping runic level items.
I can see that.
I won't even get into my anti high end item discussion here as its not the place. But I have always said that the 'runic' drop system should be changed to something more similar to how the virtue drops work. As it stands now, I know people that have burned through a million boards trying to get a runic kit with no luck. And I also know people that burned through a thousand boards and got one. The RNG is like that. Now, what if they added a 'point' system to the that system? You would still have a random chance of getting a runic at anytime. But, you would also be getting 'points' added to your total which boosted those chances greatly. Once you got one, regardless of level, those points would reset.
Sure, people would still script it. But a lot of people that do script it or don't do it at all because of the poor chances per resource use might be more likely to grind it out.
Like we both said, neither of us are smart enough to stop scripting completely. But cutting it down is more beneficial to the game that any idea that does nothing at all to cut it down and instead just adds burdens to non scripters.
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D'Amavir
Guest
And you think EA does? I see the same people scripting week after week. If EA KNEW those people were just using fake or stolen credit cards why wouldn't they shut those accounts down? The short answer is, they don't know. The long answer is, they don't know because they don't know WHO all is scripting.
Have they found SOME scripters (and non scripters for that matter) that may have used stolen cards? Sure. But most? No way. Most of them are still using the same accounts month after month. EA is doing something illegal if they are allowing these fake credit cards to keep being used.
Then you might want to call the authorities because EA is taking part in fraud. EA has no clue what accounts that MOST scripters are even using. So how can they know if those accounts they don't even know about are using fake cards?
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RichDC
Guest
I agree that scripting will move to areas of value, ive seen people scripting silver, the difference between these kind of scripts and the crafting(i think) is 2fold.
1)More difficult to write? Due to more varialbes+monster movement loot id etc.
2)players can actually do something.
At the moment all a player can do is block a recall rune the current popular scripts i see people done ever move. If say, in the ice fiends, someone decided they would keep energy fields up to prevent the person from actually hitting the ice fiend, would the magic not eventually make the player succumb and die??
As said, i dont think it will completely stop it, in fact it may not make much of a dent in the actual scripting...but...
It would allow the average honest player to not need the scripted resources/runics thus, surely making it not worth there time?
1)More difficult to write? Due to more varialbes+monster movement loot id etc.
2)players can actually do something.
At the moment all a player can do is block a recall rune the current popular scripts i see people done ever move. If say, in the ice fiends, someone decided they would keep energy fields up to prevent the person from actually hitting the ice fiend, would the magic not eventually make the player succumb and die??
As said, i dont think it will completely stop it, in fact it may not make much of a dent in the actual scripting...but...
It would allow the average honest player to not need the scripted resources/runics thus, surely making it not worth there time?
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D'Amavir
Guest
I agree with that last part 100%. More focus needs to be placed on making the honest player more likely to not have to script or, at the very least, make them even come close to getting as much from the game as the scripters do. I have said that from the start.
The less reason people have to script, the less scripting you will have. Is it perfect compared to a switch that automatically bans anyone using *you know what*? No. But it will cut it down much more than a bad idea that does nothing but further burdens non scripters.
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Connor_Graham
Guest
Why don't you ask them? They're the ones that told us that most of the scripters & dupers are using accounts that they aren't actually paying for themselves, and recently at that. How do you know they aren't shutting them down just to have the scripter/duper create yet another account within minutes of the last one being shut down? They're not paying for it, so it's no big deal to them to take 5 minutes to start a new account.
I'm just repeating what EA/Mythic told us. Don't shoot the messenger. Don't argue with him either. It's pointless. You don't know any better than I do the facts of the matter. The only thing we do know for certain is that EA/Mythic told us most of the scripter/duper accounts are being (or not being in this case) paid for with stolen or fake credit cards. You can either call them a liar or take what they say at face value. That's up to you.
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D'Amavir
Guest
I wasn't the one that brought up what they claimed. You did. You seem to believe them. I don't.
I know because I actually talk to people that know for sure what accounts they use and how long they have used them.
Another person that thinks disagreement equals 'shooting the messenger'.. My mistake. You are right! Every single scripter in the world is using fake cards and EA bans them instantly which is why we have no scripter problem!! Yes, that's it.
Argue? Yes, that is pointless. Discuss? I am all for it. But people like you clearly aren't. You just want confirmation and support of your views. So, have at it.
Exactly. But for some reason you think only you can have an opinion about those facts. Right?
It is up to me, correct. And I did express my opinion about what I thought of those 'claims'. Nothing wrong with that.
Scriptors are a "tiny minority" is an EA quote not me. Believe it or not.
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D'Amavir
Guest
If we believed everything that every company trying to make money said our economy would be in the trash. Wait....ya.
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Connor_Graham
Guest
What does that have to do with anything we're discussing?
You're the one that quoted a huge sum of revenue that you say EA/Mythic wouldn't want to lose if they were to get rid of scripters. I merely pointed out that the majority of that minority don't pay for their accounts at all according to EA/Mythic, so the sum that you quoted is inaccurate. It was YOU that said it was a minority of the minority that pay with the bad CC's, not EA/Mythic.
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