When is EA going to do something about moving shot?

[WarUltima]

He plays Siege Perilous and trust me the guy is a rookie

His template of choice if stealth ninja tamer for pvp and there is no passive detect on siege so with gm hiding and max stealth you pretty much don't get revealed.... So his idea of pvp is all kill instantly followed bye his smoke bomb macro...

he did however play a dexer in the past and would fall at number one in my book of worst dexers ever to play the Siege server...

If this was aimed at me I dont have a tamer on siege... and I dont have a stealth tamer on my accounts (I got 4 tamers total)... if this for that guy who said I have no idea about PvP then it all made sense.

 

[Kage]

If this was aimed at me I dont have a tamer on siege... and I dont have a stealth tamer on my accounts (I got 4 tamers total)... if this for that guy who said I have no idea about PvP then it all made sense.

It was for Sir Morder...

 

[Kage]

Isn't that what everyone on Siege is playing these days?

No not everyone.

 

[Draxous]

Isn't that what everyone on Siege is playing these days?

No not everyone.

But... almost!

So while were fixing moving shot... can we please put in a 2 second delay between when a player hides and when they can start to stealth?

Thanks.

 

[Larry]

TC1 Now Updated With New Balance Changes:

- Tamed pets now go into stat loss when killed in factions.

- A tamer can no longer logout his pet while it is fighting.

- Damage from pets in PvP is now capped at 25 for all attacks/spells.

- Smoke bombs now have a 30 second cooldown delay

- After using a smoke bomb, there is now a 3 second delay before being able to stealth

- Moving shot now costs the same mana as regular specials.

- The bugged quiver have rage has been fixed

- SSI caps on archery weapons have been lowered by 25%

- Trapped boxes no longer break paralysis

- Cure pots now have a 5 second timer

 

[Speaking the Truth]

TC1 Now Updated With New Balance Changes:

- Tamed pets now go into stat loss when killed in factions.

- A tamer can no longer logout his pet while it is fighting.

- Damage from pets in PvP is now capped at 25 for all attacks/spells.

- Smoke bombs now have a 30 second cooldown delay

- After using a smoke bomb, there is now a 3 second delay before being able to stealth

- Moving shot now costs the same mana as regular specials.

- The bugged quiver have rage has been fixed

- SSI caps on archery weapons have been lowered by 25%

- Trapped boxes no longer break paralysis

- Cure pots now have a 5 second timer

Stat loss for killing the pet, that's pretty dumb. I agree that pets need to be balanced, but that's not the fix. Capping the fire breath, and fixing the no LOS casting on a player would work.

I think 25dmg for ALL attacks is low. What if someone has bad resists. They could be naked with gm resist and only take 25 damage? I mean that's a bit absurd. There should be a penalty if you have a bad suit[espeically with the items you get from factions no excuses anymore] that you should take more damage if a pet hits those resists.

How are people having trouble with smoke bombs? There's so many ways to reveal and stop stealthers, it already has close to a 10 second delay[the hiding skill delay is what you have to wait]

3 seconds before you can stealth.. in order to be able to stealth right away you need almost 300 skill points. You have to have ninja, hiding, and stealth. For all those skill points those players should get some kind of bonus. It makes most templates worthless offence wise.

Moving shots mana doesn't really need to go up. It's the only special when you miss it still takes the mana. I will agree that the quivers need to be fixed[again].

The ssi cap doesn't need to be lowered, how many players are at the max swing with archery? You need 180 stam and ~60 ssi.

Trapped boxes should break para. Then there would be no counter to EO para. I think the simple fix would make trap boxes do STATIC damage. Everytime it goes off it does 20-25 damage no matter what. They would make no resist templates a lot more difficult to play so dexers[or mages, but mostly dexers] would have to pick up resist OR deal with having a box do sizeable damage to them.

Something needs to be done about cure, but I don't know if a timer is the solution or have them fail ect. It does need to be looked into, but how it can be fixed is open to suggestion. People come up with crazy ideas like leathal should be able to tick 2 or 3 times[min] before it can be cured, and that is nuts. Especially since lethal takes longer to tick, you could kill someone very fast is that was the case.

 

[thechoppa]

I always love it when people say adapt. Adapt to an uninterruptible 40 damage every 1.25 seconds? Guess I'll pick up hiding/stealth/ninja on my mage and start smoke-bombing all the time.

I have picked that post, but I could have picked many others. I used to play an archer, 45 hci, some lower d, 120 archery.

If I fought a player with 45 DCI, 120 weapon skill, and 120 parry, I can honestly say I was lucky to hit 3 times out of 10.

As we are talking about moving shot, lets take the heavy xbow for an example. 20-29 base damage IF you have max str-anat-tactics and DI. Then 1/2 chance (in the best case) that i hit a 8-10 damage fireball and 1/2 chance that I hit 2-10 damage velocity. So in the best case scenario, I hit 29+10 average 3 times out of 10. I have extraordinary high stam, so i shoot every 2 seconds that heavy x bow.

So, if you are bad enough not to turn around and disarm me, or dump and get my stam so low i cant even swing, that means that you are running away from me and in the best case scenario I am dealing 117 damage every 20 seconds. Needless to say that if you bandage yourself every 4 seconds for 50 hitpoints, and that you use greater heal pots, there is no way in the world that you will die to me.

Can an archer disarm you? No. Can an archer bleed you? No. Can an archer parry your weapon? No.

What cracks me up is players that try to fit 10 skills in their template to deal max damage, but no parry and or wrestling (ex. necro - mage and whatever gimp thing such as taming), run the hat of magi/ornament/pendant, so most likely less than 50 physical; yet they will come here to cry: "nerf archers and moving shot!"

Pathetic.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

I have picked that post, but I could have picked many others. I used to play an archer, 45 hci, some lower d, 120 archery.

If I fought a player with 45 DCI, 120 weapon skill, and 120 parry, I can honestly say I was lucky to hit 3 times out of 10.

As we are talking about moving shot, lets take the heavy xbow for an example. 20-29 base damage IF you have max str-anat-tactics and DI. Then 1/2 chance (in the best case) that i hit a 8-10 damage fireball and 1/2 chance that I hit 2-10 damage velocity. So in the best case scenario, I hit 29+10 average 3 times out of 10. I have extraordinary high stam, so i shoot every 2 seconds that heavy x bow.

So, if you are bad enough not to turn around and disarm me, or dump and get my stam so low i cant even swing, that means that you are running away from me and in the best case scenario I am dealing 117 damage every 20 seconds. Needless to say that if you bandage yourself every 4 seconds for 50 hitpoints, and that you use greater heal pots, there is no way in the world that you will die to me.

Can an archer disarm you? No. Can an archer bleed you? No. Can an archer parry your weapon? No.

What cracks me up is players that try to fit 10 skills in their template to deal max damage, but no parry and or wrestling (ex. necro - mage and whatever gimp thing such as taming), run the hat of magi/ornament/pendant, so most likely less than 50 physical; yet they will come here to cry: "nerf archers and moving shot!"

Pathetic.

Where to start...

Archers aren't over powered because you fought one guy, who probably was a dexer with parry and couldn't kill him? Oh you're right if you couldn't kill this one guy then it should probably be buffed up some more...good logic.

Talking about moving shots with a heavy cross bow and two hit spells, saying you do ~117 damage in 20 seconds. That's laughable. If a target was a 8 tiles while you were shooting them you could do close to 40 damage times a swing every 2 seconds, you're doing close to 400 damage.

Most mages can't disarm these days because they mage weps. Due to a lot of changes(med change was a big one), most mages are forced to use them. A very small % of mages can actually disarm so let's not act like this is an easy solution.

Next you go on to say why doesn't a mage just dump on you, knock down your stam and you're not swinging. Oh you're right I forgot balanced bows don't exist, I mean it's not like you can just drink a total refresh while you're shooting OR divine fury. Man everyone is a noob why didn't they think of that...just bomb on you and your stam is down for the entire fight. I feel so stupid I didn't think of that!

Your next part is that whoever your fighting is healing and potting. Sorry I don't know too many mages that have healing. I've seen about two in the entire game that still have healing. Even with healing depending on how hard you hit an archer could still do massive damage, and don't forget that in pvp anything over 19 damage makes your bandage weaker everytime.

Can an archer bleed, and disarm. I don't know where you've been, but the archer with fencing[or any other meele] Is the all the rage, so yes most archers can do both.

Then we have you talking about a mage without wrestle or parry, but you don't talk about mage weps, a necro mage tamer could just get a -20mage wep + crystaline and have 120 wep skill... so I don't know what your point is there exactly? You go on to talk about low physical with pendant/HoM/and orny. What does the orny have to do with anything, do you have one that has physical resist or something? And how many mages do you see in pvp that are wearing HoM and Pendant, and are they good pvpers..

You post had a lot of bad examples in it, I suggest you try again.
Archers do need a nerf and even the devs said the QoR is going to be fixed because it IS making archers do an insane amount of damage.

Edit: Forgot to talk about parry, most mages can't use parry because again, much like the med change where they had to go with mage weps, they made it so you need 80dex for it to be worth while. Maybe if they switched it back to just being based off parry skill and not dex that would be an option.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

id like to see what happened if they just took swing speed off weapons you dont swing... like bows.

 

[WarUltima]

id like to see what happened if they just took swing speed off weapons you dont swing... like bows.

It will make playing an archer challenging once again... (has been long gone since the addition of some godliest mods, quivers and our friendly heartwood it scripters).

People dont see the problems with archers (especially the ones currently using prepatched QoR) really have no clue about PvP or is playing an archer.

In my other post I have an actual calculation and explained how it's possible for a ledendary archer to do 50+ damage moving shot once every 2 second with a dual proc HXbow against another player with straight 70 resists. (If its a dismount shot it can do up to 70 with dual proc)

Ok you can say 50 damage once every 2 second is not that much (its just more than most of attacks in game) but for an inescapable and chainable special move it actually it. Especially when used with more than 1 archer its almost as effective as a dismount gank for the fact of you cant just "run away from it".

And I dont know why people say archers dont disarm... because on my shard other than the most popular stealth archer there are also plenty "disarm archers" with archery and a melee weapon skill. Heck my guildie is rocking a "wrestling archer" just for the disarm purpose and to counter other disarm archers.

If you maximize your damage output and is using a pre-patch QoR and start your moving shot chaining with a disarm attack, hes as good as dead. Unless you are missing hit fireball/magic arrow from your bow then mages might have a chance ghealing thru it... then you can always pick up taming lore and start with a dismount all kill then its all different story.

 

[Lynk]

Disarm/Moving shot is the favored template of speedhackers, because it truly is unstoppable with 2 of them chasing you.

I'm forced to play my Parry mage or a stealther now because of how common they have become.

 

[WarUltima]

Moving Shot (and prepatch QoR repost)

---Mathmatical proof of an archer dishing out 35+ damage moving shot (more like 50 with a decent HXbow.)---

Assuming a legendary archer (120 anatomy/tactics) using a HXbow and has 100 damage increase. his paperdoll damage (base damage) is 77-92.
For the simplicity lets ignore that 10% modified damage on quivers for now (this is actually the best damage modifier in game that unfortunatly only works for archers)
So 77-92 would translates into a final damage of 23-28 damage against someone with straight 70 resist. However with the prepatched quiver 10% of the BASE damage will be delt as direct damage thus not mitigated by resists and that portion of damage would be roughtly 7 to 9

Now we take out the 10% direct dmg from the 77-92 the remaining base damage would be 70-83 which after 70 resist mitigation 21-25. So with a prepatched QoR the archer will deal 28 to 34 final dmg.

Now we have
23-28 dmg (for using any other quiver) and
28-34 dmg (using prepatched quiver of rage)

Then we factor in the 10% damage modifier giving the final dmg a 10% boost:
25-31 dmg (other quivers) and
31-37 dmg (prepatch QoR)

Thats about 8 additional damage per shot for using the prepatch quivers.
How big is 8 "FINAL" damage? 8 FINAL damage means 27 BASE damage. HXbow has base damage of 20-24 Lets use the max damage of 24.
27/24=1.125 that means its as good as 112.5 Damage Increase (round it down to 112)

So the same legendary archer with patched QoR (or any quiver) will need 212 damage increase to achieve the same damage he can do with just 100 damage and a pre-patched QoR.

Lastly, without counting the dual proc (which can add up to 17 to 20 dmg at max distance), archers without prepatch QoR has an average moving shot dmg of 28 (25 to 31) and archer with QoR has 34 (31-37) moving shot (or regular shot dmg) now counting dual procs and any other "holes" in victims suits with conscrete weapon your moving shot can easily surpass 50 dmg mark... unless of course your archer is something gimp like 90 tactics with human 20 anatomy which in that case you shouldnt be the one commenting on moving shot being fine in the first place.

 

[Lefty]

As far as fixes go, here's some ideas:

- Cap damage like they did with AI, but much lower obviously. 15 cap seems fairto me.
or
- Increase mana cost to normal specials

Warrior type templates have been capped to the hilt already. The last nerf was to concussion blow.

The 35 damage cap is enough. As far as mana cost. There is double the mana cost if a 2nd special move is performed within 3 seconds. This was one of the first nerfs put in producation after AOS to curb the 90 damage AI's, before the archer combat loop was addressed.

Parry, paralyze, disarm as well as a good combo are well enough to deal with archers. Only issue I have is with dismount tamers. Talk about stack damage! I had better luck fighting Wod Archers.

 

[red sky]

TBH, I play a necro-mage template as my main and I can say that the game is quite balanced right now. The only thing that really needs to be fixed is small exploits like that quiver and the 90 tactics requirement for nerve strike on mages (it already takes 120 sword and 120 bushido to effectively nervestrike and a player can DP with GM poisoning and 120 swords without 90 tactics). The rest of these posts appear to be complaints about ganking which has always happened in UO...several skilled mages can gank someone just as fast as several skilled archers.

 

[UOKaiser]

Ok somebody has to asked or at least point this out.
I've read many PVP topics on overpowering.
In these last 2 months alone this is the general opinion.
Necro-Mages are over powered
Tamers are over powered
Archers are over powered
Dexers are over powered
Stealth-ninjas are over powered
Guardzone blue bards are overpowered

Now the question is...... if all these templates are indeed overpowered
Who the hell is underpowered?
Would'nt this mean that all major Templates are actually balanced?
I guess the underpowered templates would be the ones who are rare like the stealth-ninja-dex-herder or old templates like tank mages,chiv dexters wrestle mages, poisoners who were all nerfed because they were over powered even though they pretty much balanced themselves out back in the days.
So I ask again "if all these templates are indeed overpowered
Who the hell is underpowered?"

 

[Arch Magus]

What's wrong with moving shot?

Never had any problem with it on my necro mage.

 

[Lynk]

3. moving shot needs hci penalty, try shooting a real bow at a real target on a horse cranked up on cocaine. youll never have the accuracy that is in UO for sure. they never miss with it.

It has an HCI penalty, or so they say.

4. Smoke bombs need timers and delay b4 stealthing

Plenty of ways to reveal people, JoAT tracking can track any stealther. Plan ahead and track before you try to kill one.

6. Faction mods on gear need only effect factioneers. no reason for a non faction pvper be forced to play factions or be out geared by cheap silver priced arties with bs mods.

So my MR 3 from my faction orny stops working when I'm not fighting a factioner?

7. faction gear can be wore by any factioneer, point system needs abolished to prevent exploitation.

Point system WAS fine, it's ****ed now. They need to whipe points, eliminate points for stealing sigs, and eliminate the double/triple point BS that's being exploited.

10. make bola cursor go away when teleporting, no more tele-tele-tele-throw bola ****

You really don't know how this works? You prep bola, target your opponent, and then after you target (no more cursor) you teleport to keep up with a mounted player.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

MAXXED OUT EVERYTHING.. A Heavy does. 79-95 & that's BEFORE resists. Vs 70% resistance that's 21-29 Dmg From the Arrow...

http://s237.photobucket.com/albums/ff225/Daedros/?action=view&current=UO0107.jpg

Take a look at the damage in stat bar. That's with GM Anat/105.0 Tactics and 88% Dam Inc.

I didn't quit JUST over this, as I said a lot of things don't make sense. This can include rampant cheating.

EA doesn't give a damn about all the rampant cheating. Aventurine does though. http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=182316

 

[Shot]

But if it throws stuff out of balance especially when archery weapons in Ultima Online is so much more superior with impossible to get mods on them. They should have done a little more testing before release it.

You know in most other fantasy games mages dies in 3 hits (same as UO) but in those games mage damage will trash any other dexer/archer completely yet in UO Pure mages are one of the lowest dps classes if not the lowest. My bard with something to provoke out damages my pure inscribe mage with slayer book.

Something always make sense and something do not. You know... like in UO leather armor provides as much as protection as plates yet they allow mages to med and passively med. Or something like pets casts double spell no ranged check but when a mage "master of knowledge" try to cast it they are forced to stand still and if the enemy got too far it just fails to cast (another thing that's unique in UO).

At least in games like WoW and NWN if to start to windup a big spell and the enemy was in your range for a reasonable amount of time then proceed to leave the spell range... the spell will still chase them down and hit them whereas in UO if your spell takes 2 second to cast and your enemy was in range for 1.99 second then left the spell range and dont stop running then your spell will never ever land.

"Logic" dont always work with fantasy games, balance however it more important.

This is why mages do combos. Archers can't match that kind of damage in that short of time. Mage templates definitely have lots of options and when played correctly are the toughest templates to defeat.

 

[Budweiser]

ROFL dude what planet are you playin on? You obviously have absolutely zero idea as to what pvp is and what a gank is! You're absolutely thee worst mage to ever take to the field if you think moving shot is op. If you cannot defeat an archer or even two archers than perhaps you outta figure out how to play a mage better or just change your template to accomodate your shortcomings LOL. I guarantee i could either harm or magic arrow an archer to death and not even have to move. You sir just plain stink at pvp. LOL at chu.

1st Thing. Phonics. Get it..

2nd Thing. If any mage sat there and harm spammed or magic arrowed my archer, they would die. Plz tell me you play Pac so I can prove that you can't kill my archer with those two spells.

 

[Dodger]

And there are examples of this weirdness all over UO.

Why are you wearing a Micheal Jackson mask?