Harlequin, my first question is poorly worded, let me start over
Having read thread after thread on imbuing - I remain confused, and disappointed. Separating fact from rumor, and grasping what info is/ isn't current is a bit of a pain. Your explanations in this thread seem well thought and precise; I suppose my first question is what is your information based upon? I assume we've got a focus group or player testers (whatever we're calling these folks nowadays) working this one already, and in light of NDAs associated to these efforts, have you or anyone gotten any feedback from this group?
Hi Harb,
I got the info from Sarphus' sticky on imbueing here:
http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=107643
Under the Unravelling heading:
Unraveling
Q: It was mentioned that now would be a good time to stock up on mundane weapons. Is it also good to stock up on mundane armor and jewlery too?
A: You can. If your intent is to unravel them into Imbuing ingredients.
Q: Does it matter what mods and the mod intensities are on an item when you unravel them, or can you just unravel any item to get the best resources?
A: The total intensity of the item determines the what Imbuing ingredient is received when unraveling a magic item.
Q: How does the system determine what resources to give you when you unravel an item?
A: I believe the current design is as follows:
<= 199 Total Intensity = Magical Residue
200 to 399 Total Intensity = Enchanted Essence
400+ = Relic Fragment
So to get a Relic Fragment, you would need 4 item properties at 100% intensity each or 5 item properties at 80% intensity each, etc.
DISCLAIMER: What I've stated here are the base guidelines. There are other factors that can affect the type of fragment received from magic unraveling such as being a gargoyle, special soul forge bonus, possible durability penalty, penalty if item is imbued since the magic is unstable.
My concerns with the skill and application as described are many. 1) Its a very complicated system. UO maintains unparalleled depth and complexity; to our benefit. Having said that, this seems more than a little “over the top.” If I understand correctly, you “unravel” an item using the imbuing skill and the item goes away – simple enough. The properties on the item and your imbuing skill combine in some manner to yield one of three things, “residue,” “essence” or a “relic fragment,” the latter being the desired outcome. To attain the relic, the original item required combined property intensities exceeding 400%. From the relic, assuming all has gone well in the process, you are then able to attempt to imbue one property of your choice onto a new item, so long as it has not been enhanced. Is this correct?
Yup, that's how I understand it. Though they did add a disclaimer saying that it's currently a rough guide, and that there are bonuses for being a gargoyle/using a soulforge and
penalties for durability/imbuing a previously imbued item.
Beyond complexity, my next concern is 2) where do the items with the potential to yield relics come from? I’ve played UO for a hair under 12 years now, tend to focus on the “grandest” challenges around, and am a proverbial pack rat. I don’t possess these items. Between all our houses, sure I can probably find a few pieces that would break the 400% intensity range, mainly because some of the 100% intensities are “all or nothing” (e.g. FC 1, SC, or not so far behind properties like MR 2), but it really isn’t as simple as that once you begin to “peel the onion.” It seems safe to assume, that unraveling an item means there is at least one single property on it you want to use to enhance another item. Not only does there have to be 300% worth of other properties to “validate” the attempt, the one property you want has to be 100% itself (an interesting feat if for example you’re looking for 25% DI on a ring!). And as you’ve stated, you must do this five times. Results from those five items, all of which were very rare, can now be directed toward the item you wish to create. If I understand correctly, the first effort to imbue the 100% property should transfer without difficulty assuming maximum character skill. But, again if I understand correctly, it will become progressively harder the more properties we try and add. Is this correct? If it is, then it seems likely that 5 “uber” items, now unraveled/ gone, will not suffice to create a single, non-enhanced imbued item with specific properties – the goal of the entire system. An item which can’t be fortified either? But I digress. Again, where do the base items come from? DFs and various peerless as things currently stand. But even then, and with high levels of luck (my tamer has played with over 1500 for years), these are not commonplace. So should we expect to see loot rescaled across the boards to enable the imbuing system to have merit and succeed? I’m betting no. Will luck finally be fixed (not the attribute per se, the entire system that enables/ doesn’t enable it to function as originally intended)? I am skeptical. Will they insert spawn into SA that allows for incredible loot, to enable justifying and validating the imbuing system? I do suspect this is the easiest path for dev to pursue if they insist on imbuing functioning as described above. They might even try the unsuccessful route they attempted with power scrolls by putting the “enabling spawn” in the PvP area of the abyss – and since that’s the worst thing that could possibly happen, it’s probably where we’re headed!!! Well, maybe second worse, I suppose we could introduce a new system, imbuing, and let it fail before it’s even implemented, which depending on one’s perspective – could be worse.
Yeah, these 400% total intensity items are really hard to find. I am a packrat too and have been collecting magic items that have 3+ maxed out properties. I seem to be getting them more on the ML named paragons and peerless. Succubus also gives good items once in a while. However, bone daemon and balron sucks. DF is a bit iffy (I intentionally skip the first/second rooms and wait to loot the DF when the corpse go public, lots of people miss great items that are useful to me).
And yeah, chances are we'll need more than 5 relics to make that uber 5 property item.
But that brings me to my third major concern.
3) What does imbuing do for me - why do I want it? When announced, personally I reactivated an account based on potential for this skill/ system and the new race. The more I see/ hear, the more I question that decision. Since AOS, items matter. We hunt for artifacts, and you actually see more of this now as the “system” finally works. Heartwood crafting, a system that doesn’t work as well, does definitively serve a role and will continue to do so based upon items that can be created from efforts there. New lands, new artifacts, new craftables, runic kits, and new systems (the replicas in champ spawns) all compete for “roles” relative to one another and time available to each of us as players. So where will imbuing fit in? It “could” have a major role, or may have none at all actually if it’s “too hard” and “too limited.” I think I want it, but am honestly skeptical of the overall system as described. If I can’t attain needed items, develop the skill itself, and tailor those specific pieces I’d like to complete suits/ weapons and expect the piece to have some lifespan, then what’s the point? You made the statement in one of your posts: Fair enough, if it works, but I’m not really sure your conclusion will play out – in fact, it seems it probably won’t! Mismatched properties suck to be sure, but if you can’t imbue a better product than the dupers/ cheaters make with their endless supply of “rare” runics that Mythic refuses to address, then what’s the point? Go to an aftermarket site, spend $20 for gold, buy the duped valorite runic hammer from the in game player vendor, and make arms better than you could have imbued even if you had an endless pile of upper end loot to unravel.
Personally, I don't buy runics/runic pieces. I like to craft/loot my own equipment myself. I have burned several runics and with my luck, the majority of my pieces are totally mismatched
I have been asking/supporting a change to the runic system that let players choose a couple of the runics properties based on their skill levels, but imbuing seems like more balanced idea and would work perfectly for me.
Once it's implemented, I intend to dry corpses and "unravel" everything. There should be more than enough low level stuff for me to train. Higher levels may be a problem, but we'll have to wait and see how the system will be implemented. Perhaps they will implement it like mining, where you can gain skill even when mining normally, and on top of that, there's a difficulty system - smelting harder ores gives you a better chance to gain skill.
Also, the devs mentioned that they will be doing a overhaul of monster loot, so it's likely that the overhaul is being done in preparation of imbuing.
To do the actual imbuing, I have a ton of low level runics (dull/shadow/spined) to create a base item with a couple of the properties I want, then imbue the rest of the properties that I want onto them. The "failed" runic stuff will go feed my soulforge. The low level runics will thus be useful for something, and I can finally use my stockpile (I'm a packrat and don't ever throw these less useful runics away. In fact, I pick up those that people throw away at the bank...).
My plan for the beginning is to imbue low end stuff for my chars to use first (runic MR 2, LRC 16+, then imbue some resists), at the same time I will gain skill and imbue even better stuff.
It sort of brings me to my final point, 4) where does imbuing “fit” into the game? Without a defined place or role among all the other things we can do to outfit and equip our characters, if this thing isn’t “relooked” as described, consider me a skeptic.
Complaining without offering alternatives is useless, so let me try and be a little more objective. Why not a) make it simple, b) make items attainable, and c) make the skill desirable? Let me toss out a few “easy” thoughts. 1) Unravel by property, not combination thereof. All unraveled properties become residue or whatever “title” is preferred. At GM imbuing, trying to unravel a 100% property (e.g. poison resist 15), set probability at something like 50% to keep all 15 points. Let’s face it, not unraveling all 15 points means a failed attempt to most of us. And keep it constant. If unraveling a weapon with 5 properties or a piece of jewelry with a single property of poison resist 15, that specific property should be treated the same. On the weapon, you’d simply get 5 pieces of residue, one of which would be the poison resist. The most important thing in this method is that the source for loot is fixed; higher level creatures can yield 100% intensity single properties, not just lots of them on single items. 2) Maintain increased difficulty for successive properties. Losing the residue seems appropriate, as the loot enabling more residues would be attainable. Protect the base item, as things seem to currently exist. Maintain the fortification restriction if you must, but personally I loathe the entire concept, and would prefer to see the 5th/ final property just a lot harder to successfully imbue. As a consequence, the skill has a role, answering all the above. In terms of how major of a change is this – not so big really – it’s all on the unraveling side and geared toward easing the difficulty of attaining decent/ useful loot.
Anyway, some food for though. Thank you for your comments and explanations, they were helpful. I’m still just trying to get my arms around this one!
For me, the role of imbuing complements the runic system very nicely, and makes the low end runics actually useful. That's not to say it's useless by itself, it works well as stand-alone skill.
As to you suggestion, I like part of the good idea, but it may need further tweaking. On one hand, it will give alot more ingredients, while on the other hand, it makes them potentially less flexible. In general, I do not want lower requirements, self repair, HP increase, or LMC. I prefer to be able to have them turned into generic use relics that can be used for any properties. A secondary issue in fixing a certain property in each relic would result in alot of lockdowns for a ton of relics for each magic property and intensity. ie assuming that the relics will be stackable, instead of 3 stacks of relics (Magical Residue, Enchanted Essence and, Relic Fragment), we would have stacks for
1) 15 types of relics for posion resists - Relic [15 poison], Relic [14 posion],Relic [13 posion] etc etc
2) 15 types of relics for fire resists - Relic [15 fire], Relic [14 fire] etc
3) 15 for cold etc etc
4) MR 1, MR 2
5) 100 types of luck relics for Luck 1 to 100
6) 15 for dci
7) 20 for lrc
8) 8 for lmc
etc etc
At the moment, I think they would rather err on the side of caution and make it more difficult to get ingredients until they get a better feel.more feedback, and at the same time reduce the types/number of lockdowns. From what I have read up though, I think they've hit on a pretty good balance.
As it is, there are players like that OP that are concerned that it could potentially be overpowered and ruin the economy.
