@#$% random ore...arrggghh!

[Bomb Bloke]

Gheed, there's a big difference between stockpiling consumables (eg ingots) and non-consumables (eg spellbooks).

(Though I personally consider spellbooks "consumables", I collect ones with LRC/Magery bonuses on 'em and hand 'em out to newbies in New Haven).

And quite frankly what ARE you doing crafting if you don't keep a steady supply of crafting resources at hand?

Heheheh, good luck keeping a steady supply of coloured granite on hand... These days only a dedicated crafter can pull that off.

Quite frankly I think the main problem is that only mining and lumberjacking got hit with these changes. It doesn't matter quite so much for lumberjacks; the demand for coloured wood is far lower then the demand for coloured ingots, or even granite (if you discount the scripter collections, at least).

I have multiple 60k piles of standard ingots, but just a few hundred val ingots. I'm simply not interested in bothering with the system when my demand for a given resource vastly outweighs my supply, so I go do something else. But I realise that's not how it is for everyone. The problem is that there's no way to enjoy crafting unless you're really prepared to gather resources all the time, and because, let's face it, mining is dull, many people aren't.

Let's just say the whole thing would seem fairer if tailoring also saw some changes. No amount of "suspension of disbelief" could accept random leather drops though, so that's unlikely to happen, and people are likely to keep complaining.

The solution, as I see it, is to make mining interesting somehow. Make it so that people don't have to click and click and click and click the same things and the same things and the same things and the same things to get 12344654654523414*E bits of iron ore and 2 bits of val ore (which smelt down to nothing).

One idea is to automate the process so the player can do something else while the character works. Guild chat, for example. Let's face it, this wouldn't help scripters, it'd just level the field. Adding more clicks helps the scripters. One click every ten seconds beats ten clicks every ten seconds, at least from a player's perspective.

Or maybe throw in some mini game where the node contents comes up on the screen, and you get your chance to try and extract exactly what you want from it (where the difficulty is based on the resources you're aiming at moderated by your skill level + race bonus).

Heck, perhaps nodes could run into other nodes, and a miner with enough skill could be told in which direction to go in order to continue mining whatever was being harvested in the last dig.

Anything could be done really.

But as it stands, mining is for the hardcore. There's no way to get into it from a casual perspective. That wouldn't be a problem if it was true for all other aspects of UO, but that just isn't the case. If it WAS the case, there'd be very few players left indeed.

 

[Basara]

If they'd change BODs to where, instead of the "sturdy tools", each person got 100 ingots of a random type (Same ratio as the mining locations), maybe there wouldn't be as much complaining.

But, much of Gheed's argument just rings hollow.

Mining was NOT enjoyable prior to the changes, any more or less than after, unless your idea of "enjoyable" meant one or more of:
1. flirting with death from PKs in Fel, or
2. fighting elementals from using gargoyle pickaxes
3. mining in dungeons, and trying to survive the local residents
4. mindlessly mining with macros while doing other things (legally, such as talking to others in-game, or illegally, such as having the miner run rails while they are asleep or at work).

Before then, without those forms of outside stimuli, it was simply a CHORE. A chore that was made simple (too simple, really), by the devs failing to implement the "ore changing randomly" code they announced WHEN COLORED ORE WAS INTRODUCED.

When the original intent was finally implemented (what, 7-8 years later?), people cried foul, because they felt the horse had long ago escaped the barn (and since it wasn't their horse, so to speak, they wanted to keep riding it for free, instead of returning it and sticking it back into the owner's barn).

I prefer the ore being random, though I think currently, the changes occur too fast. And, we need more sources than just mining (and those that are probably mining illegally, in the case of many ingot vendors) for the colored ores. As I suggested, BODs would be good. So would T-maps and SOS (after all, SOS are supposed to be sunken cargo, and T-maps buried chests of stolen cargo). The stump and cart were also, IMO, about 3 years too high in their level of vet reward than they should have been.

And, most importantly, someone REALLY needs to check the change code for the trees. Frostwood is STILL way too rare.

And, yes, while I enjoy the thrill of digging up elementals now, I started out as a plain old miner/smith, and I mined the fringes of the Umbra island for 2 years with the special tools, running from nearly every elemental I dug up. There are just too many places in guard zones to mine, for the "but I don't want to fight elementals" sob story to hold water - and prospector tools don't bring up elementals at all.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Regarding the ore cart, I've made what I believe to have been the right decision in NOT using the Vet Reward picks on my secondary account and when the time comes will be able to add 14 more carts to the 3 I already have. The production of the carts and stumps in terms of higher end ore is actually a LOT better than resource harvesting in terms of "percentage chance to get a high end resource". SO having an extra 340 (potential) ingots per day across the spectrum will be nice.

While several of the anti-random ore spawn arguments rely on fallacious comparisons and statements, what is EASILY seen is that the change has made mining a DIFFERENT system that some people do not like. You know something... this is NOT a bad thing. Why? Because there will still be people who enjoy mining in the current system for one reason or another. And because of that and because of the new expansion, there is a market for resources gathered by these people.

Don't want to mine under the new system? Then get in touch with someone who does and is willing to sell. Create an ingame resource contact if you don't want to buy from scriptors. I am doing this right now on LS with Zoogi Fungus. Since ant infiltrators are great for gold, gems, metal items, and fungus, I have met another person churning the matriarch quest who is buying as much fungus from me as he can generally in 5000 count stacks. I get some extra gold for my effort and he lessens the amount of PvM grinding he has to do to get the full benefit from the quest... thus multiplayer interaction... one of the points of the game.

Yes, I know the scriptors still exist and the likelyhood lately of a resource vendor being run by a scriptor is high, but nothing in terms of ingame systems will stop this. It will take ACTIVE GM policing to remove them. So it's up to us the players to find people who are legitimately gathering resources and other items and selling at a reasonable price.

Instead of trying to shop Luna, head to the mountains and look for people carting a fire beetle or other pack animals with them that are actually mining the mountain and not recall-bouncing. Start up a conversation and see if they are someone who is running or looking to start running a resource selling business. You never know what may happen.

When I started mining, it was before colored ore in West Britain leapfrogging huge piles of ore screen by screen to the provided forge. Then after Trammel it was around Covetous mountains learning where each public forge house was. Now that I have my fire beetle bonded, I run Fel Cove since it is double resources, in a guard zone, gives EVERY color, AND has a bank about mid way to drop off gathered resources and continue mining. The point in my mindset isn't to get the most of a single color, but to gather as much of EVERYTHING as possible, then when I need it, I have it, or if I get a full 60k stack, I can commodity deed it up and stockpile it away to start a resource vendor at some point down the road when SA is released and people need quick resources to raise skills like Embueing.

Mining under the current system isn't difficult... it just needs a little different "strategery".

 

[Draxous]

Don't want to mine under the new system? Then get in touch with someone who does and is willing to sell. Create an ingame resource contact if you don't want to buy from scriptors.

Mining under the current system isn't difficult... it just needs a little different "strategery".

How about we continue to bring up this issue until it's addressed. You're suggestion that if someone's a casual gamer and can't get enjoyment out of this playstyle that they have to buy ingots from a scriptor or a player who plays UO every damn day of the week just to enjoy this game is ridiculous.

Mining under the current system isn't difficult... it's just to damn time consuming to be of any enjoyment.

 

[Dor of Sonoma]

Heheheh, good luck keeping a steady supply of coloured granite on hand... These days only a dedicated crafter can pull that off.

Quite frankly I think the main problem is that only mining and lumberjacking got hit with these changes. It doesn't matter quite so much for lumberjacks; the demand for coloured wood is far lower then the demand for coloured ingots, or even granite (if you discount the scripter collections, at least).

I have multiple 60k piles of standard ingots, but just a few hundred val ingots. I'm simply not interested in bothering with the system when my demand for a given resource vastly outweighs my demand, so I go do something else. But I realise that's not how it is for everyone. The problem is that there's no way to enjoy crafting unless you're really prepared to gather resources all the time, and because, let's face it, mining is dull, many people aren't.

Let's just say the whole thing would seem fairer if tailoring also saw some changes. No amount of "suspension of disbelief" could accept random leather drops though, so that's unlikely to happen, and people are likely to keep complaining.

The solution, as I see it, is to make mining interesting somehow. Make it so that people don't have to click and click and click and click the same things and the same things and the same things and the same things to get 12344654654523414*E bits of iron ore and 2 bits of val ore (which smelt down to nothing).

One idea is to automate the process so the player can do something else while the character works. Guild chat, for example. Let's face it, this wouldn't help scripters, it'd just level the field. Adding more clicks helps the scripters. One click every ten seconds beats ten clicks every ten seconds, at least from a player's perspective.

Or maybe throw in some mini game where the node contents comes up on the screen, and you get your chance to try and extract exactly what you want from it (where the difficulty is based on the resources you're aiming at moderated by your skill level + race bonus).

Heck, perhaps nodes could run into other nodes, and a miner with enough skill could be told in which direction to go in order to continue mining whatever was being harvested in the last dig.

Anything could be done really.

But as it stands, mining is for the hardcore. There's no way to get into it from a casual perspective. That wouldn't be a problem if it was true for all other aspects of UO, but that just isn't the case. If it WAS the case, there'd be very few players left indeed.

Well said, sir. You have stated the issue more eloquently than I managed to.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

Don't want to mine under the new system? Then get in touch with someone who does and is willing to sell.

Um, does any such person exist?

I mean, sure, I can see some people could enjoy the system, but I can't see those people being able to pull up more coloured ingots then they themselves can use.

 

[Sweeney]

I can't see those people being able to pull up more coloured ingots then they themselves can use.

That's a good thing.

 

[red sky]

A script miner gets to mine ALL DAY without having to do anything

a normal miner has to do it by hand.

A script miner can do it all day every day and maybe one day bring in 10,000 Val ingots.

While the hand miner can only produce 500 because he cant be on all day every single day to mine.

At least with scripts we knew the spots and could block them. Now this change has only HELPED them and HURT us.

What amazes me is that these scripters manage to keep going at it. You'd think they'd all eventually get banned from mining 24/7 while AFK. I suppose there are just too many for the GMs to handle. That could be the only plausible answer correct? I do have to admit it would be difficult to find if someone is actually AFK and then ban them.

 

[Sweeney]

What amazes me is that these scripters manage to keep going at it. You'd think they'd all eventually get banned from mining 24/7 while AFK. I suppose there are just too many for the GMs to handle. That could be the only plausible answer correct? I do have to admit it would be difficult to find if someone is actually AFK and then ban them.

I'd like to know an estimate on the # of scripters banned? I know dupers get banned, occasionally.. but scripts can be run to make generic responses to GM questions. ie (OOC: I Roleplay a mute. I'm here, did someone page on me for not talking to them? etc etc)

 

[Bomb Bloke]

Some scripters actually hire people to sit in front of the terminals and talk to anyone who might come by. One person can easily babysit multiple screens.

 

[Sharantyr]

A better way to have changed mining would have been to make it how magery is. 'The spell fizzles', 'you move some rocks but fail to find any usable ore'. Keeping the ore as it was but the higher the ore type the more chance to fail to dig up the ore. That'd maybe mess up some scripts not knowing how many swings of the pick before they became overloaded.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I see nobody has used the tip I offered regarding how to keep nodes from changing. I guess complaining about the system is easier than learning how to use it to your advantage.

Once again-

Leave 1 ore left in every node you want to remain the same and strip mine the ones you don't. These nodes will remain the same color ore until someone else comes along and strip mines it. I've had nodes producing agapite-valorite for as long as 8 weeks, and they only changed when someone else discovered the area and strip mined it.

 

[DrDolittle]

So you think it was better when you could recall to a valorite spot along with the scipters?

So you think it is better to simply preemptively punish non scripters in a manner which is, at best, a minor inconvenience to actual scripters?

 

[Lord Drakelord]

Heheheh, good luck keeping a steady supply of colored granite on hand... These days only a dedicated crafter can pull that off.

The problem is that there's no way to enjoy crafting unless you're really prepared to gather resources all the time, and because, let's face it, mining is dull, many people aren't.

Let's just say the whole thing would seem fairer if tailoring also saw some changes. No amount of "suspension of disbelief" could accept random leather drops though, so that's unlikely to happen, and people are likely to keep complaining.

But as it stands, mining is for the hardcore. There's no way to get into it from a casual perspective. That wouldn't be a problem if it was true for all other aspects of UO, but that just isn't the case. If it WAS the case, there'd be very few players left indeed.

I edit your post to these remarks here as they hit the nail on the head.

 

[Thav12]

Heheheh, good luck keeping a steady supply of coloured granite on hand... These days only a dedicated crafter can pull that off.

Quite frankly I think the main problem is that only mining and lumberjacking got hit with these changes. It doesn't matter quite so much for lumberjacks; the demand for coloured wood is far lower then the demand for coloured ingots, or even granite (if you discount the scripter collections, at least).

I have multiple 60k piles of standard ingots, but just a few hundred val ingots. I'm simply not interested in bothering with the system when my demand for a given resource vastly outweighs my demand, so I go do something else. But I realise that's not how it is for everyone. The problem is that there's no way to enjoy crafting unless you're really prepared to gather resources all the time, and because, let's face it, mining is dull, many people aren't.

Let's just say the whole thing would seem fairer if tailoring also saw some changes. No amount of "suspension of disbelief" could accept random leather drops though, so that's unlikely to happen, and people are likely to keep complaining.

The solution, as I see it, is to make mining interesting somehow. Make it so that people don't have to click and click and click and click the same things and the same things and the same things and the same things to get 12344654654523414*E bits of iron ore and 2 bits of val ore (which smelt down to nothing).

One idea is to automate the process so the player can do something else while the character works. Guild chat, for example. Let's face it, this wouldn't help scripters, it'd just level the field. Adding more clicks helps the scripters. One click every ten seconds beats ten clicks every ten seconds, at least from a player's perspective.

Or maybe throw in some mini game where the node contents comes up on the screen, and you get your chance to try and extract exactly what you want from it (where the difficulty is based on the resources you're aiming at moderated by your skill level + race bonus).

Heck, perhaps nodes could run into other nodes, and a miner with enough skill could be told in which direction to go in order to continue mining whatever was being harvested in the last dig.

Anything could be done really.

But as it stands, mining is for the hardcore. There's no way to get into it from a casual perspective. That wouldn't be a problem if it was true for all other aspects of UO, but that just isn't the case. If it WAS the case, there'd be very few players left indeed.

Well said, sir. You have stated the issue more eloquently than I managed to.

Well, this is sort of funny to read. I have read throught the entire thread and can basically dichotomize the entire stratics population. One half wants mining to be just an adjunct to the rest of the game and get their ingots with relative ease, the other half wants it to be a main component of the game and evolve their game around it.

What is absolutely hilarious in this last post is that it basically describes scipting.

I have said before I am not a big fan of scripting, but it is born out of these kind of thoughts and is entirely understandable. It matters none to the game, since everyone needs to just enjoy the game the way they want to enjoy it. After all, we are all paying to play this 12 year old game. Threads like these are amazingly interesting, because it brings together all kinds of players that only have one thing in common and that is their fanatic adherence to this golden oldie.

Everyone here seems to think scripters script 24/7, would it be less of a problem if you were scripting only say 2 hours a day, and play the rest? It is all so convoluted. Why not just enjoy the game the way you want to ejoy it.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

A better way to have changed mining would have been to make it how magery is. 'The spell fizzles', 'you move some rocks but fail to find any usable ore'. Keeping the ore as it was but the higher the ore type the more chance to fail to dig up the ore. That'd maybe mess up some scripts not knowing how many swings of the pick before they became overloaded.

Scripts can not only move a character, they can also detect the status of that character (eg how much is in his pack, how high his total carrying capacity is, etc).

Actually they can detect stuff and react far faster then a player can. Many combat helper scripts rely on this (instantly drinking a potion when at low health for eg, when a player would have to move the mouse + double click, or at the very least press a macro button).

For example, many miner bots will attempt to recall as soon as a red title (PK) appears on the screen.

Your suggestion only means more clicks, and more clicks simply benefit scripters. About the only situations a script cannot be expected to respond to intelligently are conversation and PvP combat.

Leave 1 ore left in every node you want to remain the same and strip mine the ones you don't. These nodes will remain the same color ore until someone else comes along and strip mines it. I've had nodes producing agapite-valorite for as long as 8 weeks, and they only changed when someone else discovered the area and strip mined it.

I wasn't aware of this; it could certainly be used to great advantage. Any tips on how to know when there's one single dig worth of ore left in a given node?

I know you usually get "large" ore chunks when a node is full and get smaller chunks as it nears empty, but this isn't always a solid indicator.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Any tips on how to know when there's one single dig worth of ore left in a given node?

I know you usually get "large" ore chunks when a node is full and get smaller chunks as it nears empty, but this isn't always a solid indicator.

There are usually 12 "digs" in a node (if I'm remembering right, it's been a while since I've had time to mine), excepting the nodes that give 24, so if you stick with a 10 or 11 dig macro (I always used 10 I believe), you should always be leaving at least 1 behind. The smaller chunk indicator actually does work, but you run the risk of emptying the node if you're hitting them.

The house I had prior to my current one was right next to a mountain, and it just so happened there was a valorite vein right outside my front door. I mined that vein the entire time I lived in that house and never had it change until just before I moved, when I saw someone else coming through strip mining the area.

 

[Sharantyr]

Bomb Bloke. Was just a thought after what i saw a week or two ago while hunting round the mountains around Wrong. The was a miner recalling in and out and I thought nothing of it until he seemed to be in the same spot for quite some time, 30 min or so. Eventually he was gone but there was a couple of iron ore left where he'd been standing.

 

[Thav12]

THe change only redistributed the rarity of ore. It does nothing to scripting for better or for worse. Clearly discussed on the first page of this thread.

 

[Sharantyr]

I agree Thav. A script miner can get 1.5 - 2 million gold each 23 hours from just mining iron.

 

[Setnaffa]

Wow, someone who knows what they're talking about.

Don't wish for static ore... Let there be rare ore, and remove the scripters!

Valorite Ore has always been rare, even when the spots were known. There were a total of 8 on my entire shard. 8 out of 1,000 mining spots.

Compare this change to rl (I know...don't say it). Gold mines don't suddenly change to copper mines. Unmined gold is hard to find, but it will always be gold. Yeah, I know a vein can be mined out, but you don't find copper in the same location later.

Maybe they could make all mines static (or change less frequently), but make the spawn rate of the rarer ores longer (maybe 4 hours for valorite).

 

[Gheed]

There are usually 12 "digs" in a node (if I'm remembering right, it's been a while since I've had time to mine), excepting the nodes that give 24, so if you stick with a 10 or 11 dig macro (I always used 10 I believe), you should always be leaving at least 1 behind. The smaller chunk indicator actually does work, but you run the risk of emptying the node if you're hitting them.

The house I had prior to my current one was right next to a mountain, and it just so happened there was a valorite vein right outside my front door. I mined that vein the entire time I lived in that house and never had it change until just before I moved, when I saw someone else coming through strip mining the area.

The amount of ore per node is dependant on the percentage of the grid that node occupies and increases or decreases the yield in powers of 4. Same with trees. Try chopping a single tree out in the middle of nowhere or a small bit of rock (that looks like a little chunk of mountain sticking out of the ground) on fire island. You wont get far into it before it is depleted. 4-8 digs. This is why cave mining is typically more productive than the mountanside. The grid is usually %100 minable.... well over 12 digs.

Also I have tried just leaving one dig on the node. In addition to making the process more tedious. It didn't seem to work.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Also I have tried just leaving one dig on the node. In addition to making the process more tedious. It didn't seem to work.

That means someone else was strip mining the same area. I've tested my method over and over, and unless someone else comes along and strip mines the area, the ore types remain the same.

 

[Sarsmi]

Also I have tried just leaving one dig on the node. In addition to making the process more tedious. It didn't seem to work.

That means someone else was strip mining the same area. I've tested my method over and over, and unless someone else comes along and strip mines the area, the ore types remain the same.

It doesn't work. I've tried it before, and just to re-prove to myself that you have had flukes happen to you when you've tested, I went and single mined out dull copper spots over the past hour. One dig, one use of the prospector tool on a bunch of iron spots, over and over. And one of them has just turned to gold. Some spots can last for a long time, like I said I had val spots that have lasted over a month now, and you better believe I mine em out.

Sorry. =/

*and just had the next one turn to dull copper (upgrading to shadow)

 

[Connor_Graham]

Then either something has been changed, or something else is happening to change your results. As I mentioned eariler, I've had the same spots that I mined multiple times daily remain the exact same ore types for as long as 2 months, and only changed after someone else came in and strip mined the area. Even the worst strings of the RNG would have caused at least one of those to change in that period of time, yet they didn't until another player forced it to.

 

[miss uo]

It doesn't work. I've tried it before, and just to re-prove to myself that you have had flukes happen to you when you've tested, I went and single mined out dull copper spots over the past hour. One dig, one use of the prospector tool on a bunch of iron spots, over and over. And one of them has just turned to gold. Some spots can last for a long time, like I said I had val spots that have lasted over a month now, and you better believe I mine em out.

Sorry. =/

*and just had the next one turn to dull copper (upgrading to shadow)

I do alot of mining, and I have never keep track of my dig count. I have had some val and verite spots last for a month or more even though I always mine the spots out. I believe its a fluke also.

 

[Sarsmi]

Then either something has been changed, or something else is happening to change your results. As I mentioned eariler, I've had the same spots that I mined multiple times daily remain the exact same ore types for as long as 2 months, and only changed after someone else came in and strip mined the area. Even the worst strings of the RNG would have caused at least one of those to change in that period of time, yet they didn't until another player forced it to.

Not necessarily. I tried this long ago mining the same area over and over for a couple hours and ore switched on me then too. I think you just had a fluky vein.
It would be awful if it worked that way anyways, since most areas wouldn't get strip mined or chopped, players would just randomly check trees or nodes and they would all end up being regular wood/iron after a while.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Not necessarily. I tried this long ago mining the same area over and over for a couple hours and ore switched on me then too. I think you just had a fluky vein.
It would be awful if it worked that way anyways, since most areas wouldn't get strip mined or chopped, players would just randomly check trees or nodes and they would all end up being regular wood/iron after a while.

This wasn't a single "fluky" vein. This was with multiple veins spread across Malas, Tram, and Ilshenar.

 

[Dor of Sonoma]

It doesn't work. I've tried it before, and just to re-prove to myself that you have had flukes happen to you when you've tested, I went and single mined out dull copper spots over the past hour. One dig, one use of the prospector tool on a bunch of iron spots, over and over. And one of them has just turned to gold. Some spots can last for a long time, like I said I had val spots that have lasted over a month now, and you better believe I mine em out.

Sorry. =/

*and just had the next one turn to dull copper (upgrading to shadow)

That may be the difference. In my admittedly limited use of prospector tools, it has seemed to me that the use of one shortens both the lifespan and the yield (volume-wise) of a vein - as well as prompting a faster switch.

Veins that remain untouched by a prospector's tool seem to produce a lot more steadily, at least in my experience.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I don't think I can correlate that one because I use a Prosp Tool about 90% of the time I hit a vein (There are times I DON'T use it based on my current ingot count or if I run out of charges on what I have in my backpack and still have a few veins' worth of shovel use left, I'll just run the shovels out first before setting up a new batch of tools).

I've simply noticed that certain areas in general have a higher or lower occurance of changing (i.e. the mountain right outside my house changes all the time, Fel COve on LS changes much more slowly).

UO has had a habit of creating "urban legends" on how things work or not work and we may be seeing a few of them in this thread on mining. I DO remember reading a Dev stating a WHILE back that there WERE ways we could affect how the veins yoeld ore but they never said what it was and to my knowledge noone has come forward with THAT specific answer, so who knows.

What I do know is that given the changing veins, Mining at least has tools at its disposal to mitigate the issue. Lumberjacks I think have a MUCH BETTER argument against the randomization system (and really their distribution system as a whole) because they do NOT have any mitigating tools like Mining does (however by the same token, they have no "loss of resources" on converting raw material into refined resources the way mining does.

 

[ClayPigeon]

Correct. They are now must haves.

Borric

They are not must haves. You do NOT need either a Gargoyle Pickaxe or a Prospector's Tool to mine.

What has happened is that they have become very useful. Before the change, the prospector's tool was among the more worthless items in UO.

You didn't need it becuase you didn't need to upgrade ores, you just went to a spot that had the ore you were after - which is ultimately the crux of this entire thread.

They have become extremely useful - which is very different from saying Must Have.

 

[Gheed]

They are not must haves. You do NOT need either a Gargoyle Pickaxe or a Prospector's Tool to mine.

What has happened is that they have become very useful. Before the change, the prospector's tool was among the more worthless items in UO.

You didn't need it becuase you didn't need to upgrade ores, you just went to a spot that had the ore you were after - which is ultimately the crux of this entire thread.

They have become extremely useful - which is very different from saying Must Have.

They were extremely useful before. Even though I had Val spots marked, and I have mined damn near all that was minable to find them. I did not have enough runes to sustain constant mining. So I could upgrade ore from verite and agapite books in the cycle. But they(tools) were too easy to get so they were tossed. Now they are a little more useful but I still see piles of them at the smithy from time to time.

 

[gjohnson5]

Aight, I don't care much for whining, but I sure feel like indulging in some right now.

I've been doggedly mining my lil' heart out since the random ore change, on my decade-old Grandmaster miner. Every day, I've been forcing myself to continue a pasttime that I had previously found to be relaxing and enjoyable for all of those years.

Tonight, I had to log out in the middle of it. I can no longer convince myself that it is fun in any form. It has become tedious, frustrating, dull work, with no enjoyment or apparent reward.

I shall miss mining. :-\

Hmmm...
Many aspects of the game have turned this direction. SOme others I can think of are
1. lumberjacking
2. Vesper & Britan rewards turn-ins
3. Gold farming
4. Champ Spawns
5. Skill gains in some areas (provocation , poisoning)

However it's been this way for quite some time
The scripters have won unfortunately

 

[Borric]

Correct. They are now must haves.

Borric

They are not must haves. You do NOT need either a Gargoyle Pickaxe or a Prospector's Tool to mine.

What has happened is that they have become very useful. Before the change, the prospector's tool was among the more worthless items in UO.

You didn't need it becuase you didn't need to upgrade ores, you just went to a spot that had the ore you were after - which is ultimately the crux of this entire thread.

They have become extremely useful - which is very different from saying Must Have.

Well, they are no more of a must have than say, LRC on your armor. True, you can still play without it. With that, instead of getting say 100 valorite ingots, you get 10, for hours of work.

Borric

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

That's the choice to make now isn't it?

Besides, it's not like Prosp Tools weren't around while the spawns were static is it?

Most of the reason why you see them tossed aside is that they ARE 50 charges each which lasts quite a long time even when strip mining and quite easy to get, to the point that even dedicated miners will find themselves well stocked if they are BOD players at the same time. At that point you have two choices. You can't sell them back to the NPC (like you can with pickaxes and gloves) so you can either drop them on the NPC to give them away or dump them on the ground in case someone else needs/wants them.

Prospector's Tools and Mining Gloves aren't NECESSARY, but they do make life easier overall.

 

[Sarsmi]

Well, they are no more of a must have than say, LRC on your armor. True, you can still play without it. With that, instead of getting say 100 valorite ingots, you get 10, for hours of work.

Borric

Where do you get your numbers from? This morning when I was running the little experiment on nodes changing I was hitting a newly discovered (for me) val node at the same time and getting 30 or so ingots a time from it. You make it sound like its impossible to get valorite, and it's actually quite easy. Now frostwood, that's near impossible to get. Valorite is fairly easy, with just a little effort.

 

[Sarsmi]

Not necessarily. I tried this long ago mining the same area over and over for a couple hours and ore switched on me then too. I think you just had a fluky vein.
It would be awful if it worked that way anyways, since most areas wouldn't get strip mined or chopped, players would just randomly check trees or nodes and they would all end up being regular wood/iron after a while.

This wasn't a single "fluky" vein. This was with multiple veins spread across Malas, Tram, and Ilshenar.

Nothing remarkable happened, you just happened to have a few veins that were static longer than you expected. Probably because people do not tend to mine in illshenar (no marking), trammel (only half the ingots they could get) or malas (same as trammel). So less people hitting those nodes = less chance to change. And then once a node changes you can say sure, it was a strip miner.

I *think* I read that the chance of a node changing is like 2% or something, it's pretty low. So sure, you could visit a node 50 times and it could be val each time, and that would not be unusual. Nodes change, but not as often as people seem to think they do.

 

[Sharantyr]

Sarsmi. I don't doubt your numbers at all. But still, for the higher end ores (agapite -> valorite) after the time spent, first finding the ore and then smelting to ingots, its probably much easier and quicker to hunt monsters and buy the ingots from one of those miners that never need sleep.

For a miner/smith with a chance of 1400 or so different BODs to collect, a chance of all the various runic properties from reward hammers. Isn't there enough of the 'hit and hope' randomness without throwing in the mining too?

 

[Teufel_Hund]

I f you mine without Prospecting tools you are wasting your timeI usually spend an hour in the morning and an hour at night mining in Fel and the difference between with and without is remarkable. Without Prospecting it is roughly 70%/30% mix Iron to colored, with 45%/55% and gems also seem to be much easier to find after prospecting the vein. Also not all of the veins have become random, I have spots that I have been mining for over 5 years and they have never changed there are only a small handful of those but they do exist

 

[Sarsmi]

Sarsmi. I don't doubt your numbers at all. But still, for the higher end ores (agapite -> valorite) after the time spent, first finding the ore and then smelting to ingots, its probably much easier and quicker to hunt monsters and buy the ingots from one of those miners that never need sleep.

For a miner/smith with a chance of 1400 or so different BODs to collect, a chance of all the various runic properties from reward hammers. Isn't there enough of the 'hit and hope' randomness without throwing in the mining too?

That can be true. It can often be more efficient to make the gold then buy what resource is needed, rather than getting the resource yourself.

 

[Gheed]

That can be true. It can often be more efficient to make the gold then buy what resource is needed, rather than getting the resource yourself.

Currently on Catskills (luna) there are three total val deeds for sale. Two on one vendor in 1k lots for 400k or a 5k deed on a different vendor for 1 mil. Hmm... I wonder which is more prone to cheating and which is not? I wonder who will sell out first?

Too bad I wasn't on Baja. I could get a 60k val deed for a mere 10mil.... only 166gps per. Wow that guy must have worked hard.

 

[miss uo]

I f you mine without Prospecting tools you are wasting your timeI usually spend an hour in the morning and an hour at night mining in Fel and the difference between with and without is remarkable. Without Prospecting it is roughly 70%/30% mix Iron to colored, with 45%/55% and gems also seem to be much easier to find after prospecting the vein. Also not all of the veins have become random, I have spots that I have been mining for over 5 years and they have never changed there are only a small handful of those but they do exist

Percentages have alot to do with how you perform a task, so my hourly numbers without prospectors tools are about 60/40. Not worth your time, you have to be kidding me. Iron ingots sell for what 30ea., and if you do bods they are a must have.

 

[Teufel_Hund]

Percentages have alot to do with how you perform a task, so my hourly numbers without prospectors tools are about 60/40. Not worth your time, you have to be kidding me. Iron ingots sell for what 30ea., and if you do bods they are a must have.

True I did not elaborate I guess. I constantly search the vendors and find Iron Ingots for 15 per so I am primarily mining for color. Not that I toss the iron cause I burn threw those as well.

 

[Sarsmi]

It's probably time I raised my ingot prices. This is on baja:

iron 10
dull 25
shadow 40
copper 50
bronze 60
gold 70
agapite 80
verite 90
valorite 100

I sell in lots of 1k, they go fast though. Bah. It is so easy for me to remember what to price them at, as is.

 

[UOKaiser]

Currently on Catskills (luna) there are three total val deeds for sale. Two on one vendor in 1k lots for 400k or a 5k deed on a different vendor for 1 mil. Hmm... I wonder which is more prone to cheating and which is not? I wonder who will sell out first?

Too bad I wasn't on Baja. I could get a 60k val deed for a mere 10mil.... only 166gps per. Wow that guy must have worked hard.

Neither as I would go there buy up those 2 1k val deeds and the 5k deed making my total expense for 1.8mil and then place on my vender a 7k val deed for 3 mil flat. Making my self a easy 1.2mil profit in one sale. That other one probably found another guy selling it in the boomdocks for cheaper so he did the same thing and up the price for sale.

The 10mil for 60k is low balling his prices so i would buy that 10mil deed and split the 60k deed into 1k's each at 400k slowly selling it or if i want to speed up the sale lower it down to 350k per 1k deed then someone else like me comes around buys me up and up his price to make a quick profit so we both win.

 

[UOKaiser]

It's probably time I raised my ingot prices. This is on baja:

iron 10
dull 25
shadow 40
copper 50
bronze 60
gold 70
agapite 80
verite 90
valorite 100

I sell in lots of 1k, they go fast though. Bah. It is so easy for me to remember what to price them at, as is.

Ya youre low balled in youre iron prices. Looks like going price on baja looks more like this
iron 20
dull-?
shadow-?
copper 35
bronze 40
gold 75
aga 150
ver 175
val 225 (not counting the 10mil 60k deed price which is lower)
These prices are pretty low compared to the other shards but if you buy them out you can charge whatever you like and raise youre prices. Make youre own market. Everytime they restock you buy them out. s youre the only one buying them out other people are forced to come to youre vender for ingots. Theres more to it of course the reseller wars I have fun with and fighting for control of the market so you either compromise come out victorius or lose.
The ingots you sell fast currently are most likely them buying you out and raising there prices to make profit.You are as we call a reseller supplier which is not a bad thing as you will always sell out and because youre mining youre own ingots it is pure profit. While resellers make only the small profit from youre price to market price that they can sell it for though they never need to lift up a shovel.
Though if you decide to go into direct supplier to the customers instead of resellers then be prepare to deal with the mechanics I mention with the price wars,control of customers,comproimises,merchant alliances,etc... Could become a minor to major enterprise depending how far you wish to run with it.
Or you can end up with product sitting on vender not selling.

 

[Gheed]

Neither as I would go there buy up those 2 1k val deeds and the 5k deed making my total expense for 1.8mil and then place on my vender a 7k val deed for 3 mil flat. Making my self a easy 1.2mil profit in one sale. That other one probably found another guy selling it in the boomdocks for cheaper so he did the same thing and up the price for sale.

The 10mil for 60k is low balling his prices so i would buy that 10mil deed and split the 60k deed into 1k's each at 400k slowly selling it or if i want to speed up the sale lower it down to 350k per 1k deed then someone else like me comes around buys me up and up his price to make a quick profit so we both win.

That person who scooped up 50 val hammers for a steal was probably thinking along the same logic you were. Wondering why their legitimate intentions were met with a deleted account.

The point of the post wasn't quite how do I make a profit. It was more along the lines of how did these folks get these amounts without breaking the tos. Certainly not through any legit methods detailed here.

And a 60k deed at 166 per... I thought I was an insane miner back with static locations. But that many ingots for that low price is way out there for an honest player.

 

[UOKaiser]

That person who scooped up 50 val hammers for a steal was probably thinking along the same logic you were. Wondering why their legitimate intentions were met with a deleted account.

The point of the post wasn't quite how do I make a profit. It was more along the lines of how did these folks get these amounts without breaking the tos. Certainly not through any legit methods detailed here.

And a 60k deed at 166 per... I thought I was an insane miner back with static locations. But that many ingots for that low price is way out there for an honest player.

Yea thats why the outrage. Players who didnt dupe them selves where being ban for reselling which is a uo proffesion in itself just like tending plants or just being a merchant selling tools to wary travelers. Though It be pretty dumb to ban people for holding too many same items which it looked like ea did. Especialy since the hammers them selfs werent dupes just the bods which when turned in gave you a unique hammer untraceble.

It's easy to get such amounts whiout the breaking the tos. Reselling is one of them, House selling is another or just playing a merchant for 11 years, rare selling. When you know all the ins and outs of uo it's hard to stay poor. Thats why I was showing how to get these amounts in one way as many people are lost on how somebody can just have 10 mil in there account let alone 1 billion.
Hell play uo in the begginig wind up with alot of true rares or multiple castles sell them later multi billions with np from other players who have done the same thing.
Now how the money got into the economy 11 years of dupes and bugs and npc tricks and players quiting transfering gold to different hands. Though if you go by that every player in uo is a cheat because every player in uo received gold from another at one point in time. Unless all the player income is generated by mongbats and balrons.
Yep 166 is low but looks like hes selling in bulk though considering that shard average val price is in the 200's it's understandable not too far of.How he attained it perhaps found a idoc or stored it for a long time since when mining spots where static or bought elsewhere for cheaper. Though unattended script mining would take that bot a very very long time to aquire that amount of val if done after the random changes.

 

[Harlequin]

Though unattended script mining would take that bot a very very long time to aquire that amount of val if done after the random changes.

I was against the randomizing change in the beginning, but this is one reason I changed my mind. This sort of levels the playing field a bit with regards to higher level ores, since I can do targetted mining and boost the ingots I want like val by using gargoyle pickaxes and propector tools.

Granted, I can never get as much ingots in total, but I like to think that I am getting better quality ingots for my time.

Another reason was that in the old system, scripters (ok, and other legit miners too) kept mining out my val spots 8 out of 10 times before I could get to the spots. This way, miners don't need to compete for spots.

 

[Sharantyr]

Harlequin. You didn't think to use the gargoyles pick and prospect tools on agapite and verite the old way when your valorite spots were mined out?