Smoke bomb/Egg bomb casting delay...

[Sir Morder]

Lets get together and agree that the smoke/egg bomb needs a delay, similar to the delay for mounting etherals and using pet balls. This would balance out the overpowered ninja stealth template. Would this be all that difficult for the dev's to incorporate into the code? I'm not an expert at programming but common sense tells me that if it can be done and redone with mounting etherals it can't be that hard. Also the same was done for using pet balls, so why not? Maybe this would cut down on the amount of cry baby posts about the stealth ninja template? Maybe this would cut down on the amount of stealther templates period!! Stealthing as a whole should be nerfed or should just go away. Anyone else wanna see more visible pvp? Discuss...

 

[o2bavr6]

How about if they were interuptable?

 

[Sir Morder]

Thats what im sayin. Make it like mounting an etheral (interuptbale), usin a pet ball (interuptable) both have a 2 sec delay. Just about everything else has a delay or can be interupted, why not egg/smoke bombs?

 

[Connor_Graham]

I don't see anywhere as to why you feel smoke bombs are overpowered....

 

[Larry]

It makes people virtually unkillable.

How is that not underpowered? It's a get out of jail free card thats totally abused in PvP.

 

[Sir Morder]

I don't see anywhere as to why you feel smoke bombs are overpowered....

Rather than simply make a post like this ^ why don't you make an argument as to why they shouldn't have a delay? As Larry has stated, it's sort of like a freebie for any stealther. I play a stealther template also and for me it's way too easy to just hit a hotkey and vanish without any risk of being interupted even if i have targeted someone. This is just way too overpowered for a stealther. In a pvp situation, there should be no "EASY" way out. It's a fight thats what pvp is all about. You can argue, well there's ways to hit or reveal the stealther after he's smoke bombed. For example, conflag pots. But don't these also have a delay? Why shouldn't egg/smoke bombs have a delay? There are a number of certain things a player cannot do when flagged, smoke/egg bombs should fall into this category.

 

[Kat]

Seems to me if you'd invest some skill points in the Detect Hidden skill, your problem would be solved.

 

[Sir Morder]

I would have to challenge you to post a viable pvp template that uses 100 pts in detect. And at best, its gonna take a lucky detect to actually reveal the stealther. At which time the stealther will use his hide hotkey cause there's no timer between egg/smoke bomb then hide (its the other way around). And with the skill delay for detecting, the stealther is long gone. And for the record, i do have a GM detector with GM track.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Rather than simply make a post like this ^ why don't you make an argument as to why they shouldn't have a delay?

Probably because you haven't shown any reason why they should. It seems to me that if someone has to use a smoke bomb to escape then you've "won" and they lost. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it take 100 points to be able to run away like a little girl when you're getting spanked?

 

[Kat]

I would have to challenge you to post a viable pvp template that uses 100 pts in detect. And at best, its gonna take a lucky detect to actually reveal the stealther. At which time the stealther will use his hide hotkey cause there's no timer between egg/smoke bomb then hide (its the other way around). And with the skill delay for detecting, the stealther is long gone. And for the record, i do have a GM detector with GM track.

I'm pretty certain a PvP template that used 100 pts in detect hidden is much more viable in PvP than one with a minimum of 230 pts [if not more!] in hide, stealth and ninjitsu.

 

[Draxous]

I would have to challenge you to post a viable pvp template that uses 100 pts in detect. And at best, its gonna take a lucky detect to actually reveal the stealther. At which time the stealther will use his hide hotkey cause there's no timer between egg/smoke bomb then hide (its the other way around). And with the skill delay for detecting, the stealther is long gone. And for the record, i do have a GM detector with GM track.

I'm pretty certain a PvP template that used 100 pts in detect hidden is much more viable in PvP than one with a minimum of 230 pts [if not more!] in hide, stealth and ninjitsu.

Is that why all of your PvPers (that I've EVER seen) have ninja, hiding and steatlh... but not all have detect hidden?

So, I detect a stealther... they instantly hide again and start stealthing away the split second they hide, while I'm standing there sitting on my thumb... wondering wtf do I do because they just stealthed away. "You must wait a few moments before using another skill."

Well why in the nards don't they have to wait a few moments between using a skill too?




Yeah... that's balance.

 

[Draxous]

I don't see anywhere as to why you feel smoke bombs are overpowered....

That's because you're a trammy who doesn't PvP.

No one cares that people can smokebomb... what we (the PvPers) can't stand is that there is no delay from when they hide and when they can start stealthing. It's akin to being able to use 2 skills back to back without any delay.

It's overpowered.

 

[Kat]

Is that why all of your PvPers (that I've EVER seen) have ninja, hiding and steatlh... but not all have detect hidden?

So, I detect a stealther... they instantly hide again and start stealthing away the split second they hide, while I'm standing there sitting on my thumb... wondering wtf do I do because they just stealthed away. "You must wait a few moments before using another skill."

Well why in the nards don't they have to wait a few moments between using a skill too?




Yeah... that's balance.

Hiders and stealthers do have timers between using skills and if you can't figure out how to best utilize your own [mage] template, its not my problem!

Hint: Manavamp

All PvP stealthers have to show eventually. Learn your game mechanics instead of coming here crying over every little thing that presents the slightest challenge. rolleyes:

 

[Ru TnT]

crying over every little thing that presents the slightest challenge.

isn't that part of being a leet pvper? you don't honestly expect them to learn to play the game, do ya? that would require some effort, adaptability, and/or brain power, it's much easier to cry for a nerf...

 

[Sir Morder]

Smoke/Egg bombs should never have been introduced and since they're here they definitely should have some sort of balance. These things have no risk involved. Has anyone ever even seen where a smoke/egg bomb has ever failed to hide? I mean c'mon, everything in-game has a certain amount of risk. These things none. Hit hotkey, gone. If nothing is to be done about these "get outta jail free cards" than at least make detect more viable. Like say at GM detect, how about make detect work similar to poisoning skill. At GM detect have 100% chance to no fail. At 80 detect have 80% chance to detect. All pvp type skills have timers, why haven't smoke/egg bombs have some sort of timer (other than re-use). A stealther has almost a no-risk vs all reward skill and thats just plain silly.

 

[Ru TnT]

It seems to me that if someone has to use a smoke bomb to escape then you've "won" and they lost.

that kind of "winning" isn't enough for some people...

 

[Sir Morder]

I'm still waiting for you Kat to post a viable template. Anyone for that matter. Lets see if any of these temp's have hiding stealth ninja in them.

 

[Ru TnT]

Smoke/Egg bombs should never have been introduced and since they're here they definitely should have some sort of balance. These things have no risk involved. Has anyone ever even seen where a smoke/egg bomb has ever failed to hide? I mean c'mon, everything in-game has a certain amount of risk. These things none. Hit hotkey, gone. If nothing is to be done about these "get outta jail free cards" than at least make detect more viable. Like say at GM detect, how about make detect work similar to poisoning skill. At GM detect have 100% chance to no fail. At 80 detect have 80% chance to detect. All pvp type skills have timers, why haven't smoke/egg bombs have some sort of timer (other than re-use). A stealther has almost a no-risk vs all reward skill and thats just plain silly.

i've seen them fail, usually b/c the person wasn't gm hide. i've also "ran through" my egg bombs before, that's always fun when it happens.

as for your "no risk vs all reward," come play with me on a non tamer stealther sometime. see how much "no risk" really is with me around.

 

[Ru TnT]

I'm still waiting for you Kat to post a viable template. Anyone for that matter. Lets see if any of these temp's have hiding stealth ninja in them.

so the template isn't viable if it has hide/stealth/ninja?

 

[Divster]

Taking care of stealthers is really not a problem, if they have to invest 200 + pts in hiding and stealth, you should be able to have tracking and detect without loosing out, not to mention you can effectively track with minmal amounts of the skill.

Besides this there are many many ways of dealing with a stealther such as bleed, poison, strangle all of which do dmg over time and most if not all can be inflicted in rapid succession meaning each tic of dmg gives a good chance to reveal. Conflag pots and many other area effect spells etc are also effective and all these if timed well are more than enough.

Also as someone above said there is no delay between smoke bomb usage, do some research before posting rubbish

 

[Flutter]

Its hardly overpowered. Its very VERY easy with just human skill to detect a hidden person and even easier to reveal them (multiple ways).
If you can't kill a smoke bombing stealther (who is on foot) then maybe you should work on your skills a little more instead of trying to nerf another persons template.

 

[Ru TnT]

Its hardly overpowered. Its very VERY easy with just human skill to detect a hidden person and even easier to reveal them (multiple ways).
If you can't kill a smoke bombing stealther (who is on foot) then maybe you should work on your skills a little more instead of trying to nerf another persons template.

chances are slim to none when trying to reveal a GM hider with JoaT detect...most stealther will be in form(llama/ossie/wolf/bake/kirin) all of which grant mounted run speed.

 

[Flutter]

Its hardly overpowered. Its very VERY easy with just human skill to detect a hidden person and even easier to reveal them (multiple ways).
If you can't kill a smoke bombing stealther (who is on foot) then maybe you should work on your skills a little more instead of trying to nerf another persons template.

chances are slim to none when trying to reveal a GM hider with JoaT detect....

False. I do it all the time.
Regardless there's lots of ways to reveal them and keep them from being able to hide again.
Like I said, if ya don't know how or are having trouble with it it's definitely not the other persons template, it's yours. (or your lack of skill/experience)

 

[curlybeard]

Nerfing the egg/smoke bomb? Incredible. Is this a spoof? like the call to nerf camping

Why don't you just place a delayed damage effect on them (poison, bleed, death strike, etc.) or use an area effect spell, weapon, or potion? You could just play an elf? or are you asking that stealthers be visible all the time?

Why should stealthers be expected to go toe-to-toe when they are at least 200 skill points (or in my case 310 points) down compared to other mostly visible templates?

You can use JOAT tracking or detect hidden if they really get under your skin.

 

[Sir Morder]

i've seen them fail, usually b/c the person wasn't gm hide. i've also "ran through" my egg bombs before, that's always fun when it happens.

as for your "no risk vs all reward," come play with me on a non tamer stealther sometime. see how much "no risk" really is with me around.

Aren't u the same Ru that used to boast nobody could kill u in luna? And i killed u multiple times with my noxxer? Just wonderin if u still wanna come play?

 

[Draxous]

The problem with smoke bombs and hiding/stealth is that can stealth away instantly after hiding which makes it overpowered and abused.

There is nothing anyone can do to counter this. If I get tracking and detect... I track a stealther then detect them and then they instantly hide and stealth off... so I follow them (cause they're tracked) until they hit a server line, get too far away or my track wears off.

Whoever suggested strangle, poison, bleed... hog-wash. apples, cure pot or talisman (primer on arms) all can remove those at the push of a button and just one more push of a button and i smokebomb bye bye.

If a ninja stealther wants to get away and is prepared to... there is NOTHING anyone can do to stop em.

If I'm kicking your butt in PvP... then you should get your butt kicked. Not get away because you get to abuse a no-skill delay that for 8 years of UO had one.

It's overpowered.

This reminds me of the days people were defending 4/6 magery casting or 1 hit kill bushido archers by telling everyone else to adapt because they enjoyed playing an overpowered template.

Get over yourself.

 

[Ru TnT]

False. I do it all the time.

i would love see this.

Regardless there's lots of ways to reveal them and keep them from being able to hide again.
Like I said, if ya don't know how or are having trouble with it it's definitely not the other persons template, it's yours. (or your lack of skill/experience)

i don't have a problem. i see nothing wrong with smoke/egg bombs

 

[Draxous]

Nerfing the egg/smoke bomb? Incredible. Is this a spoof? like the call to nerf camping

Why don't you just place a delayed damage effect on them (poison, bleed, death strike, etc.) or use an area effect spell, weapon, or potion? You could just play an elf? or are you asking that stealthers be visible all the time?

Why should stealthers be expected to go toe-to-toe when they are at least 200 skill points (or in my case 310 points) down compared to other mostly visible templates?

You can use JOAT tracking or detect hidden if they really get under your skin.

If they removed passive detect from all shards and added a timer between when you could stealth after hiding. All would be good.

Hiding and stealth were meant for you to move around un-noticed. Not for you to get away in the middle of the fight.

Here's my question. Why in the hell do we have "You cannot flee in the middle of battle" for everyone but these folks.

Turn off that feature and allow me to recall in the middle of any fight then.

The same logic would apply.

 

[Flutter]

I am really laughing irl that you guys are having such trouble with these stealth templates.
I'm not about to advertise how to reveal/kill them as I play one myself more often than not.

Trust me. You can tell the decent pvpers vs the sucky ones by how they react when you smoke bomb/hide. You CAN reveal these people and keep them from hiding again.

Just learn. Stop trying to nerf someone else due to your lack of ability.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

The same logic would apply.

Cry more?...la

 

[Sir Morder]

Nerfing the egg/smoke bomb? Incredible. Is this a spoof? like the call to nerf camping

Why don't you just place a delayed damage effect on them (poison, bleed, death strike, etc.) or use an area effect spell, weapon, or potion? You could just play an elf? or are you asking that stealthers be visible all the time?

Why should stealthers be expected to go toe-to-toe when they are at least 200 skill points (or in my case 310 points) down compared to other mostly visible templates?

You can use JOAT tracking or detect hidden if they really get under your skin.

ROFL joat's thats hillarious. you've got less than 5% chance to reveal LMAO thats a good one.
poison=instant cure then instant bomb
bleed=not enough damage to reveal (believe me i've chased many blood trails)
deathstrike=only effective if, guess what, using hiding stealth ninja
area effect spell=same as bleed
weapon=are you kidding me here LMAO
conflag pot=maybe missed on first one, then delay, then bye bye

Gimme a break here. Everything else has been given a timer or a delay of some kind or another. Smoke/egg bombs should be NO different. As black rain stated, why isn't there a skill timer between hide then stealth?

 

[Draxous]

I am really laughing irl that you guys are having such trouble with these stealth templates.
I'm not about to advertise how to reveal/kill them as I play one myself more often than not.

Trust me. You can tell the decent pvpers vs the sucky ones by how they react when you smoke bomb/hide. You CAN reveal these people and keep them from hiding again.

Just learn. Stop trying to nerf someone else due to your lack of ability.

You obviously only fight sucky stealthers or only fight as a stealther (poorly) cause i have no problem getting away from any fight.

Learn to play the template a bit better and maybe then you wouldn't think it's so easy to reveal someone.

Trust me.

 

[Draxous]

The same logic would apply.

Cry more?...la

Troll less?...la

 

[Ru TnT]

Aren't u the same Ru that used to boast nobody could kill u in luna? And i killed u multiple times with my noxxer? Just wonderin if u still wanna come play?

i don't recall being killed by you(on a non tamer char), but it's possible, especially if i was on my thief(Ru.) i definitely don't remember ever boasting about that...

 

[Sir Morder]

OMG flutter, lmao, do you even play on a pvp shard??

 

[Flutter]

LOL I play against a whole guild full of stealth archers. I know how to reveal them.

Like I said. You can tell the good from the bad by what happens after you hide/stealth.
If you can't reveal them and keep them from hiding again, then you fall into the latter category and need to work on your abilities in pvp.

 

[Flutter]

OMG flutter, lmao, do you even play on a pvp shard??

Nice attempt at a troll. Since you know nothing about me I would suggest going and finding something else to do.

 

[Sir Morder]

i don't recall being killed by you(on a non tamer char), but it's possible, especially if i was on my thief(Ru.) i definitely don't remember ever boasting about that...

Ya you remember, i can tell by your post hahahaha.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

The same logic would apply.

Cry more?...la

Troll less?...la

Maybe you should first try to figure out game mechanics first so you can see how really whiney you sound right now...la

 

[Ru TnT]

LOL I play against a whole guild full of stealth archers. I know how to reveal them.

Like I said. You can tell the good from the bad by what happens after you hide/stealth.
If you can't reveal them and keep them from hiding again, then you fall into the latter category and need to work on your abilities in pvp.

i just wanna know how you reveal stealthers with JoaT detect...

 

[Flutter]

Maybe you should first try to figure out game mechanics first so you can see how really whiney you sound right now...la

*loling more*.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Learn your game mechanics instead of coming here crying over every little thing that presents the slightest challenge.

Can I use that as my signature from now on?

 

[Sir Morder]

Nice attempt at a troll. Since you know nothing about me I would suggest going and finding something else to do.

OMG take a look at who started this thread. Your the one trolling in my thread. PvP is going to be a never ending battle of trying to balance it out. Giving a template an easy out is in no way balanced.

 

[Draxous]

LOL I play against a whole guild full of stealth archers. I know how to reveal them.

Like I said. You can tell the good from the bad by what happens after you hide/stealth.
If you can't reveal them and keep them from hiding again, then you fall into the latter category and need to work on your abilities in pvp.

LOL I play against a whole shard full of stealth archers and tamers. I know how to reveal them too!

Like I said. The good ones can get away if they want to and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

So, why has no one addressed my question of removing "Flee in the heat of battle?" It's set up pretty easy for stealthers to get away... so why can't I recall away whenever I want to?

Seems fair... don't you think?

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Select skill: Detect Hidden
Point cursor over known or guesstimation of players location.

Tada...presto...player revealed. It happens more than you might think...la

 

[Ru TnT]

Ya you remember, i can tell by your post hahahaha.

i honestly do not remember. i can't think of a single time in the past that you weren't a tamer...unless it was a different char?

 

[Flutter]

LOL I play against a whole guild full of stealth archers. I know how to reveal them.

Like I said. You can tell the good from the bad by what happens after you hide/stealth.
If you can't reveal them and keep them from hiding again, then you fall into the latter category and need to work on your abilities in pvp.

LOL I play against a whole shard full of stealth archers and tamers. I know how to reveal them too!

Like I said. The good ones can get away if they want to and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

So, why has no one addressed my question of removing "Flee in the heat of battle?" It's set up pretty easy for stealthers to get away... so why can't I recall away whenever I want to?

Seems fair... don't you think?

So you don't know how to keep them from getting away. GOtcha.
lol

 

[Sir Morder]

i just wanna know how you reveal stealthers with JoaT detect...

I'll answer that for them Ru. They don't. Believe me when i say i have a GM detector GM tracker and at best its lucky to reveal anyone.

 

[Ru TnT]

Select skill: Detect Hidden
Point cursor over known or guesstimation of players location.

Tada...presto...player revealed. It happens more than you might think...la

with human 20.0 detect skill???

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

So, why has no one addressed my question of removing "Flee in the heat of battle?" It's set up pretty easy for stealthers to get away... so why can't I recall away whenever I want to?

Seems fair... don't you think?

What are you talking about, you can run away from a fight any time you like. Besides that, don't you only leave a guild house unless you are with a group of your guildmates anyway?...la