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@#$% random ore...arrggghh!

  • Thread starter Dor of Sonoma
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  • Watchers 5

SavageSP

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I agree with Dor, I hate the Random Spots, both for Mining and Chopping.

I was just a casual miner lumberjacker, I only did it when I had to and only for the resources I needed, I didnt have very many spots marked, but it was nice to mine a few spots and relax and get what I needed.

Now I dont mine at all unless I need Regular Iron, or chop unless I need Reg Wood. Im Forced to buy my Colored Resources from others, probably Scripters, I still see them walking the same rails and dont think it slowed them down very much, just hurt the guy/gal with limited time like myself.
 

FrejaSP

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I like the randum spawn, it make it more fun to me, however Lumbering need some love, it's to hard to find good trees.
 

QueenZen

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Meh, I just go mining in Delucia now. Lots of rock there, I hit it all, got verite and some gems in a few spots, lots of agapite and dc and shadow, course the random on the granite was worse...ie get verite ore...get a darn WHITE granite rock ...but I did get lotsa copper and agapite rocks for some reason.

Hit a tree in downtown Ocllo and got frostwood first time I got frostwood ANYWHERE since the change ...course it quickly reverted back to bloodwood but, I can use that anyways, bloodwood makes nice arcane circles. :)

I would not mind if the enabled it all to be far LESS random ... on everything, wood and ore and of course GRANITE. I mean if we get green ore we should get a darn couple of green granite rocks there in that same spot at the same times, TOO , not white !

Almost wished they enabled us to set our mining tools to also have the option to *just mine granite* when all we may want that day is granite not ore.
 

BajaElladan

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Hail Friend,

I consulted a Miner friend of mine, Ferris Sapien, and he had these comments:

Since every spot where one may mine may now yield normal ore all the way up to and including valorite, he mines ONLY in locations patrolled by Town Guards. Should an unwanted Elemental spawn, he hits one ket to have it guard whacked and continues mining...or he applies his Elemental slayer weapon (his happens to be a mage wep bow) and helps himself to its 25 ore.

I hope my friends comments are of some use to thee.

Elladan of Baja
 

Olahorand

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Its too much randomness against the players:
Randomness in finding the ore you need or want.
Randomness in smelting success (with the highest loss rate in ressource gathering this game has to offer besides Dehancing instead of a more fair 1 to 10% of the stack).
Randomness in what you get from the vain (I have often enough the case, that my human miner with 105 mining did discover a colored metal with the prospectors tool and not got a single ore out of all the swings, which was not iron!).
Now tell me, where this is fun.
*Salute*
Olahorand
 
A

Aboo

Guest
Aight, I don't care much for whining, but I sure feel like indulging in some right now.

I've been doggedly mining my lil' heart out since the random ore change, on my decade-old Grandmaster miner. Every day, I've been forcing myself to continue a pasttime that I had previously found to be relaxing and enjoyable for all of those years.

Tonight, I had to log out in the middle of it. I can no longer convince myself that it is fun in any form. It has become tedious, frustrating, dull work, with no enjoyment or apparent reward.

I shall miss mining. :-\
I'm with you on this 100%. I used to love mining. I haven't mined hardly at all since they made the changes. I now have an ore cart and honestly think I do just as well with it when it comes to colored ore than I do mining. The drawback is I can't get stone. :sad4:

This is, in my opinion, one of the worst changes they ever made to UO.
 
S

Sharantyr

Guest
What you need to think about is....

How long should it take to gather the resources to fill a large BOD?

700 of any of the leathers for tailors large male.....20-40 min?

2000 iron ingots for smiths large plate.....20-30 min?

Now imagine you found a never ending valorite spot. 75% valorite/25% iron. 40 digs per min. Allow for 62% chance to smelt. It would take 41-42 minutes digging then you need to smelt.

So...how long should it take?
 

Sarsmi

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Randomness in what you get from the vain (I have often enough the case, that my human miner with 105 mining did discover a colored metal with the prospectors tool and not got a single ore out of all the swings, which was not iron!).
From reading posts on the crafting forum I found out a while back that tree and metal nodes each have an average percentage they stick to, even when they change wood/ore types. So if you mine out a spot and get roughly half dull copper and half iron, you'll always get roughly half DC and half iron from that spot. So I spent a few days mining out every Baja felucca cave node to figure out the averages and then marked up the best ones. It has worked great for my percentage return of colored to iron.

I'm serious guys, just change up what you are doing a bit and you may discover you like mining again. I don't go anywhere without a prospector's tool. I recall to my book of "val" spots first, they are the ones that I mark when I am wandering around mining instead of focused mining. I have val spots in this book that have been good over the past month.

Then if I want to do more mining I will go through my books of high yield ores and mine those to see what they are and then repeat on the ones that I want to repeat on. If I have a bad run I can just go mine up a mountainside, or I can take a prospector's tool and a garg pickaxe to fel delucia, and get a bunch of shadow stone, since shadow stoneware sells so much it doesn't hurt to stay in stock. :)
 
L

Lord Drakelord

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From reading posts on the crafting forum I found out a while back that tree and metal nodes each have an average percentage they stick to, even when they change wood/ore types. So if you mine out a spot and get roughly half dull copper and half iron, you'll always get roughly half DC and half iron from that spot. So I spent a few days mining out every Baja felucca cave node to figure out the averages and then marked up the best ones. It has worked great for my percentage return of colored to iron.

I'm serious guys, just change up what you are doing a bit and you may discover you like mining again. I don't go anywhere without a prospector's tool. I recall to my book of "val" spots first, they are the ones that I mark when I am wandering around mining instead of focused mining. I have val spots in this book that have been good over the past month.

Then if I want to do more mining I will go through my books of high yield ores and mine those to see what they are and then repeat on the ones that I want to repeat on. If I have a bad run I can just go mine up a mountainside, or I can take a prospector's tool and a garg pickaxe to fel delucia, and get a bunch of shadow stone, since shadow stoneware sells so much it doesn't hurt to stay in stock. :)
Sorry but I will never go back to mining again till they do something with the random BS, I used to make stone items and today there is no way I can do that as we did before they went random since there is no way to get the stone I need unless I go mine "ALL DAY, EVERYWHERE". A lot of folks ask for stone table and such and in colors we cannot get any more unless we out for daysssssss mining. So its not fun to me any more to mine all day long when I can be out having real fun killing monsters and wooing that wife of my in game ;) We have more fun fighting the CS at tokuno then mining. If they bring it back to where we can fine stones as before then I will be the first to change horses in mid stream.
 
C

ClayPigeon

Guest
I am reading this thread and I can't help thinking that the change they made has worked PRECISELY as intended. They have made it harder to get rare ores, becuase they should be.... well... hard to get.

Arguments about how this has hurt regular players and only helped scripters is getting tired and... off topic. Every change, every little thing in UO is ruined by the scripters. Fact is you can only hurt the scripters by identifying them and banning their accounts.

They stated very clearly this was not meant to hurt scripters. It would be a stupid way to stop scripters, and was not intended as such.

Sooooo, it didn't hurt scripters, although I think by looking at the numbers presented by someone above, you can see that it has most certainly drastically reduced their intake of valorite ore. It drastically reduced everyone's intake of valorite ore - again, that was the intent.

I am also hearing in this thread that people are not happy about not being able to just go and get the ore they want anymore - which was the intent.

Fundamentally, the method for acquiring ore has not changed. You use a pickaxe, you target a spot, you get ore in your pack. Rinse and repeat. So when everyone complains that mining is not "relaxing" anymore, what you are really saying is you are mad that you can't get the ores you just want to go get anymore - wow, funny - THAT WAS THE INTENT.

Now, I won't sit here and say I am happy about it neither. It kind of stinks actually because having done a significant amount of mining after the change - I can't just go and get the ore types I want anymore.
Its fairly hard to acquire valorite ores. Probably too hard in fact.

So I don't think the system needs to be changed back, however it does need some tweaking. Here again the devs indicated that they did feel the system will require some additional tweaking down the road. Things like making spots that spawn with high end ores take longer to play out, and possibly making it so that ore smelts down without loss. Jeremy talked about all these things when they instituted the change. So the real fear may be having the ball get dropped with the change in guard.

With all that said, its really not that big of a deal. You just have to stop and reconsider the situation on how to mine efficiently and to derive pleasure from it.

You can use a Prospector's Tool on a spot, and then hit it with a Gargoyle Pickaxe. Thats TWO levels of increase! So essentially if you use the tools available in the game, any ore spot giving up Agapite or higher, can BE a valorite spot. PLUS, you just pray you spawn an elemental with that axe, because after you slay him and loot him, you get 25 free ore! (Except for the Dull Coppers, which I agree needs to be fixed)

You have a few chioces for a template for a miner. You can go the Mage weapon route (which I have not done, but others here have storngly advocated), or you can put mining on an archer template.

Frankly, I found it incredibly easy to put archery on a straight archer template and still be able to hunt with that character. You can get yourself a soulstone and swap Mining with Magic Resist. Its fairly easy, and is in fact the way I have run my mining operations for a long time (years before the change). The only elementals to fear with this template are the copper and valorite ones (I have to be careful because my Horselord does so much damage the reflections will kill me in two hits).

I like it because it does give me a bit of adrenaline not knowing when an elemental will spawn. If you are not into that sort of thing, then mining can still be a leisurely relaxing affair where you hang out in a favorite cave, strip mine it, and only use the Prospector's Tool to boost the ore levels. Its even more relaxing that the old way of mining a spot out then recall to the next - since you never knew what might be lurking at the far end of the recall.

Change is inevitable, the only choice you are left with is how you choose to deal with that change.
 

Dermott of LS

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...


What you need to think about is....

How long should it take to gather the resources to fill a large BOD?


Just In Time style inventory in regards to resources no longer works. Your best bet in the current system is to strip mine and save up what you get and don't need UNTIL you need it.

From my experience with mining and doing BODs, if you are mining to fill BODs and not pumping out Valorite suits with bought runic hammers, then the distribution with the intelligent use of lower end BOD rewards that are geared towards miners will be more in your favor in regards to the BODs you obtain during that timeframe.

In short, if I am strip mining and stockpiling ingots to use for filling a BOD, (mining with an elven character for better colored ore percentages, sturdy tools and prosp tools from BOD rewards, mining gloves, and a fire beetle) I will over time get more ingots stockpiled especially the higher end ingots than what I use to fill BODs.

The ONLY ones that become a problem are:

Iron: Augmented via PvM loot either via resmelting or by combining into small normal iron BODs
Shadow: Augmented using Garg picks on iron spots (Prosp to Dull, Garg for Shadow)
Copper: This is kind of the borderline between problem and "higher" end and depends on if I want to fill the non-combinables or not.

So, the mindset has to change from a "mine it when I need it" to "Take some time and stockpile as I go".

Mining is fine, Lumberjacks need help though.
 
F

Farscape

Guest
Wow now my brain is going 100 miles an hour with all the Maths
I stock piles many millions of ingots prior to the change worked my ass off for it only to find I can obtain a good average of all ores still so all the change did was make you all get a bit smarter in how to mine
All I ask is for my Fire beetle to have a back pack that would be cool
 

Basara

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You need a backpack on your fire beetle? Damn...

I take 8 garg picks and a PT with me, and end up not needing a pack mining Tram/Ilshenar, with a fire beetle, even with the ore from 10-30 elementals (and can take more tools now, if I want to start carrying a BoS again to send the iron-shadow back). If I wasn't using special tools, I could probably do the same with 15 200-use sturdy shovels.

I guess garg pick mining in Fel might need a pack animal to go with the FB, but why risk losing stuff to PKs by having a pack animal which makes you stand out as a bigger target?
 

Warpig Inc

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There is always fel Cove and Delusia. I'll just wait till I see the new stone armor before I start hating the random ore locations.
 
S

Sharantyr

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Dermott. It really doesn't matter if you mine it before you need it or after you need it, it still takes the same amount of time to mine it.


And all the arguments above that say 'it gives you a reason to go exploring new places' is crap. You only need a small area now that takes 15 or so minutes, re-spawn, to strip mine.

The arguments for prospect tools and gargoyles picks. These are meant as a bonus for mining, not a must have.
 

Dermott of LS

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...

If it's about the time needed, then it effectively separates out the people willing to mine vs the people who mined because it was easy enough to recall bounce to the "rare" locations.

Obviously, regardless of what is done outside of active human policing of the game for scriptors, the scriptors will ALWAYS beat the legit player in terms of harvesting resources, however, they no longer have the luxury of being able to target specific veins (be it Shadow for heater shields or Valorite for ingot sales) and have to simply go by getting as much of everything as possible as well, so there is less competition for any given vein.

And you're right, you only need a small area. I always use Fel Cove because it has a nice guard zone area as well as a bank that sits roughly half way along the mountain range so I can drop off what I have mined and keep going.

To give some hard numbers, I have kept seperate and unused the metal/stone I have mined in 2009. Generall, I mine about 30 minutes or so on a weeknight and maybe an hour or 2 on a weekend day depending on mood and supply of shovels. I don't mine every day, nor do I mine the entire time I play. Thus far, my take has been:

Ingots|Color|Stone
24248 Iron 2220
33993 Dull 3459
11222 Shadow 1023
6110 Copper 564
5876 Bronze 585
5474 Gold 531
2701 Agapite 264
1970 Verite 252
1553 Valorite 174

Mind you, had I changed my method a small amount, I could have quite a bit more Valorite because as stated above, in my experience, Fel veins seem to change once per day or so on the whole with a few single veins changing during the process, so I could have targeted the found veins a bit more had I wanted to.

Now as for Prosp Tools and Garg picks, they're rewards for BODs, but the bonus they give make them an obvious choice as an addition mining tool. The fact that they wear out makes them a constantly needed item (vs Mining gloves... how many +1 or +3 pairs of mining gloves have you used or sold lately?). Given what these items do, why shouldn't they be used? Not using them is only lessening what you COULD be achieving in terms of mining.

The one thing about "bonus" items in an MMOG is that it doesn't take long before the "bonus" is the "must have norm".

Finally, always consider the alternative support options to outright mining:

1. "Scrap metal": Farm lower end mobs that you know drop metal items and use those to augment your iron intake or to combine with "junk" BODs if you play the "turn in" game.

2. Ant Lions: They drop up to 10 large ore of Dull, Shadow, Copper, and Bronze as well as have metal items. Addendum: DC elems in Shame, Shadow Elems in the Yomatsu mines, and the controller puzzle towers in Ilshenar all have Ore (DC or Shadow) as payoffs as well.

3. Ore carts: I have 3 of these running right now (going to be a LOT more once my secondary acct breaks the 10 year barrier (next year)) and I now have well over 700 of each large ore color that hasn't even been smelted and it's growing daily.

4. Trade resources: Find someone willing to work out a trade schedule ingots for stone... you never know... a little bartering may go a long way.

Now some may look up at the list above and go 1500 Valorite isn't much, however, it's more than I would need to fill the Val deeds I have gotten so far this year, so it gets stockpiled away for when I do need it.

The system is fine... they've simply made rare colors... rare.

But they ARE findable in mining and now findable in even more places than they used to be, so instead of having to go to specific points A - X, you can find a mountain range that suits your fancy and still find a vein or two where before there NEVER would have been one.

It's simply a change in mindset.
 
S

Sharantyr

Guest
Surprised you didn't get more iron to be honest. If I didn't have a stockpile here's what I'd probably do.

Mine for iron (anything else would be a bonus). Antlions for Dull Copper -> Bronze, and buy, with the gold from the antlions, what I need of the higher colours.

Dermott. If you had done the above over the same time would you have more of less of each, apart from stone of course.
 

Dermott of LS

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...

Well, those numbers are JUST from mining and the discrepency in the iron comes from 1. using an elf character to mine and 2. ALWAYS bumping pure iron veins to DC. So I get more colored ore in general, and the use of Prosp tools accounts for the higher DC content.

I also do additional items 1, 2, and 3, however the numbers were just to represent pure mining.

Also note that this mining only involves sturdy tools and prosp tools. I have not yet restarted using garg picks since they took out the Britain guard zone in fel due to the fiction scenario.
 

Basara

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The arguments for prospect tools and gargoyles picks. These are meant as a bonus for mining, not a must have.
Correct. They are now must haves.

Borric
Much how 500 years ago a pickaxe was sufficient to mine iron ore, while today it is mined with multi-ton electrically-driven shovels, and broken from the bedrock with explosives....

Times change as needs change.....
 
S

Sharantyr

Guest
Another of the problems with how it is now is choice. Treasure hunters have a choice what level maps to do. PvM you have the choice of which things you want to hunt. Leather gathering you have the choice of which leather to gather. Mining you just.....mine (same with LJ). Its a step backwards.
 
S

Sharantyr

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Basara. Those changes are for quantity. A prospect tool doesn't give greater quantities of ore.
 

Basara

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Apparently, you don't know much about real-world mining.

It isn't just quantity; it's also the ability to get usable amounts of metal out of less-rich deposits (sounds like a PT or GPA to me). That's the REAL reason why large scale mining was invented - to make low-end ore profitable.

And, I use GPAs to get substantially more ore every time I mine, than I would if I didn't use GPA, for the simple fact I can kill even most paragon ore elementals without even stopping my pick swings (in fact, once got 5 Shadow eles from one vein in 9 swings and killed them all without stopping - the 2rd ele dropped about the time the vein ran out, at the same time the 5th spawned - I opened the corpses and started smelting on my fire beetle as I autodefend-killed the last three - and never dropped below half HP).
 

Bomb Bloke

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Refining process have also changed. There are very few people still using just a bucket of water and a sieve to separate gold from dirt.
 
D

Dor of Sonoma

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Apparently, you don't know much about real-world mining.

It isn't just quantity; it's also the ability to get usable amounts of metal out of less-rich deposits (sounds like a PT or GPA to me). That's the REAL reason why large scale mining was invented - to make low-end ore profitable.

And, I use GPAs to get substantially more ore every time I mine, than I would if I didn't use GPA, for the simple fact I can kill even most paragon ore elementals without even stopping my pick swings (in fact, once got 5 Shadow eles from one vein in 9 swings and killed them all without stopping - the 2rd ele dropped about the time the vein ran out, at the same time the 5th spawned - I opened the corpses and started smelting on my fire beetle as I autodefend-killed the last three - and never dropped below half HP).
Frankly, that sounds daunting and depressing to me.

Turning mining into some sort of juggling act/combat sideshow utterly detracts from the simple, relaxing pleasure that I experienced before.

I do not want to have to do the bloody math. I do not want to use bells and whistles. I have no wish to fight monsters or wear armor or be a friggerty mage. (Seriously!)

With all of those restrictions and/or prerequisites in place now, it no longer interests me. It's like...post-AoS, when all of a sudden, you couldn't just throw on any old GM armor and go hunting...i.e., it blows. :)
 
S

Sharantyr

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"It isn't just quantity; it's also the ability to get usable amounts" = quantity

Fighting elementals isn't mining just because they spawn from mining. As you said you can still mine while fighting.
 

Basara

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Refining process have also changed. There are very few people still using just a bucket of water and a sieve to separate gold from dirt.
Yes, and they're almost all hobbyists...

...Much like these so-called miners whining about how things have changed, because suddenly, the high-end ore wasn't being handed to them on a silver platter to turn in for talismans.

And, Sharantyr STILL doesn't get it. if you have to mine 10 or 100 (or even 1000) times more rock to get the same amount of metal as before, quantity isn't the issue, except in the OPPOSITE of the way they mean. Technology may let them produce 10 times as much refined metal - but out of 1000 times as much raw material.

The old was was like being able to go discover motherlodes of a specific mineral at will.
The current way is having to explore to find new sources, because your old veins ran out, and having to occasionally mine substandard ore because that's the source you currently have..

It doesn't take a genius to figure out which one more closely resembles real mining. (and, yes, in the real world, the difference between a copper mine that has trace gold & silver amounts and a Gold or silver mine that produces copper as a by-product is determined by one thing - the relative prices of the metal on the market, compared to the effort in refining them out of the base ore - so mines DO occasionally change the metal they produce, even in real life)
 
C

Connor_Graham

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Dermott. It really doesn't matter if you mine it before you need it or after you need it, it still takes the same amount of time to mine it.
Yes, that but that "immediate need" isn't present when you're mining when you don't need it.



Mining when you need it is what prompts impatience with the system, and threads like this one. :lick:
 

Kaleb

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Spots should never have been static in the first place, I have had no problems mining what i need I just have to sample the dirt a little more is all.
 

Borric

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Much how 500 years ago a pickaxe was sufficient to mine iron ore, while today it is mined with multi-ton electrically-driven shovels, and broken from the bedrock with explosives....

Times change as needs change.....
Don't let Draconi see this or we will have explosion pot mining! Toss a explo and rocks and ore rain down from the heavens lol!

Borric
 

The Craftsman

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Aight, I don't care much for whining, but I sure feel like indulging in some right now.

I've been doggedly mining my lil' heart out since the random ore change, on my decade-old Grandmaster miner. Every day, I've been forcing myself to continue a pasttime that I had previously found to be relaxing and enjoyable for all of those years.

Tonight, I had to log out in the middle of it. I can no longer convince myself that it is fun in any form. It has become tedious, frustrating, dull work, with no enjoyment or apparent reward.

I shall miss mining. :-\
And this doesnt get moved to spiels and rants for what reason? Oh yes thats right ... you work for stratics and different rules apply to you. Fair and even handed moderation doesnt come into it it would seem.
 

Setnaffa

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Spots should never have been static in the first place, I have had no problems mining what i need I just have to sample the dirt a little more is all.
They were never meant to be static. The original intent was to give each spot a random chance of changing each time it was emptied. The chance was supposed to be about once a month if the spot was completely cleaned out every ~20 minutes. Based on that, I'd say the odds of changing was about (3 chances per hour x 24 hours in a day x 30 days in a month) so (3*24*30) = 1 chance out of 2,160 of changing each time a spot is cleared out.

Obviously, there was a bug in their calculations and ore spots never changed. To (I guess) compensate, they've change the odds to around 1 chance out of 4.

From one extreme (static) to another. I'd be happy if a spot would be good for around a week.
 
S

Sharantyr

Guest
Yes Basara I DO get it. A prospect tool and a gargoyles pick doesn't mean I have to make less swings of my pick to get the same amount of ore out of the ground.
I know you enjoy playing a warrior/miner and using a gargoyles pick, fair enough. If you're saying we should all adapt and play that way its changing the game to more of a class based game.

Anyway as I said. I don't like the way mining is now so I closed my mining account. Yes I did have 6 miners because I used to enjoy mining.

Maybe someone should put a poll thread up for this, be interesting to see the results.
 

Petra Fyde

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It didn't get moved because the discussion was helpful and civilised. Not flame filled with multiple posts bordering on personal attack. Who posted it had no bearing whatsoever.
 

Gheed

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They were never meant to be static. The original intent was to give each spot a random chance of changing each time it was emptied. The chance was supposed to be about once a month if the spot was completely cleaned out every ~20 minutes. Based on that, I'd say the odds of changing was about (3 chances per hour x 24 hours in a day x 30 days in a month) so (3*24*30) = 1 chance out of 2,160 of changing each time a spot is cleared out.

Obviously, there was a bug in their calculations and ore spots never changed. To (I guess) compensate, they've change the odds to around 1 chance out of 4.

From one extreme (static) to another. I'd be happy if a spot would be good for around a week.

Yup the ore spawns were always supposed to be random. But for 9 years that code sat untouched... 9 years.

It's an interesting issure. Why should rare ore be rare? Do they provide any real benefit or should they be rare for the sake of being rare... rare but of little or no value?

Even if you gave folks the ability to create an uber mod weapon or piece of armor out of the rarest ingredient(s), it still would only take a handful of ingots to create that item. If that were the case even the frostwood items would be too easy to come by under the current system. So how about rare resources gathered to actually create something useful... a tall order.

Community collections... a demand generating easy to code juggernaught. Sure we don't have any use for "rare" resources but NPC's seem more than happy with their 30 acre warehouse(s) stocked to the with with valorite/frostwood...

Equine Puckey

Collections are a cop out. A cheap quick way to make something valuable. You can plop down an NPC w/an isatiable appetite for horse dung and every stable in sosaria will be will be packed with scripters.

Solve it with creativity? Tweak a collection system that (permanently) artificailly inflates demand? RNG bomb resource gathering (check)... We got a quick cheap solution to a quick cheap collection system. Flip the switch on ancient code and be done with it. Now Val prices are high and and museum tier is low... cummunity indeed. What kind of fix was that?

Under a non-rng ore/wood system you could have tweaked the NPC collection logic to say "hmm... I have collected 1 billion froswood boards. I believe I have enough of those. I will lower the point value of the resource and raise the point value of the other resources I don't have very much of." Dynamic point allocation.

You could have eliminated or severly lowered tier decay and offered a different suite of items every few million points REDEEMED. Cycle through uniquie 10 sets of items or RNG the rewards from a pool of items set to cycle on heavy activity.

Solve it with RNG? Sure... remove resources and add weapons and armor. The more mods on the piece and the more intense those mods... the more value the item has. RNG Loot farming, t-hunting, unwanted RNG runic items. Everything has value. You get the high end loot from the harder script scenarios an thus get more points. Those items may have alot of high intensity mods but are usually undesired because they aren't in the right combinations.


Or remove rare resources from CC. Lots of ideas. Please just do something revert RNG resources..
 

The Craftsman

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It didn't get moved because the discussion was helpful and civilised. Not flame filled with multiple posts bordering on personal attack. Who posted it had no bearing whatsoever.
SnR is littered with posts that were well conceived and simply voicing a concern but got moved nonetheless. The fact that this one didnt makes it stand out like a sore thumb.
 
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Lord Drakelord

Guest
It didn't get moved because the discussion was helpful and civilised. Not flame filled with multiple posts bordering on personal attack. Who posted it had no bearing whatsoever.
SnR is littered with posts that were well conceived and simply voicing a concern but got moved nonetheless. The fact that this one didnt makes it stand out like a sore thumb.
Well I am glad it stay in the UO hall forum as I believe most of the Dev's do not read all the forums here, if I had that job I wouldn't, I would only read the main ones such as UO Hall and those forums that held an interest for me, such as plants etc..

Tossing a thread, such as this, to the SnR just gives it a death that many folks would love to see, even the Dev's would like us to forget this randomization of ore and wood and move on, don't you feel it in the force "Move along, these are not the droids you seek".
 
A

Aboo

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Well I am glad it stay in the UO hall forum as I believe most of the Dev's do not read all the forums here, if I had that job I wouldn't, I would only read the main ones such as UO Hall and those forums that held an interest for me, such as plants etc..

Tossing a thread, such as this, to the SnR just gives it a death that many folks would love to see, even the Dev's would like us to forget this randomization of ore and wood and move on, don't you feel it in the force "Move along, these are not the droids you seek".
I too am glad it stayed. I rarely, if ever, read SnR and I found several people's suggestions here to be enlightening. I doubt that it will change my mind about mining/lumberjacking since the change but if I do decide to someday go back to it, I might use some of their suggestions!
 
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Whinemaker

Guest
Just In Time style inventory in regards to resources no longer works. Your best bet in the current system is to strip mine and save up what you get and don't need UNTIL you need it.
Dermott. It really doesn't matter if you mine it before you need it or after you need it, it still takes the same amount of time to mine it.
Yes, that but that "immediate need" isn't present when you're mining when you don't need it.



Mining when you need it is what prompts impatience with the system, and threads like this one. :lick:
Hi,

Personally speaking I'd rather spend those 2-3 hours I have for UO each week for something relaxing than crush my keyboard like a certain German kid while waiting for the random number generator to go my way, just so I could have a pile of ingots ready for my next who-knows-when-it-will-come gaming session.

As much as I agree with the idea that the rare ores should indeed be rare, I still think the casual players are the ones getting the shorter end of the stick after the changes.

Honestly, I just find the current mining system to be like more work and commitment piled on top of what I normally get from real life already.

People would probably say "buy your ingots then", well, fair enough.
It's just a pity that my miner, a character I used to play quite regularly, spends most of his time on the shelf now.
Oh well. C'est la vie I guess.
 

Gheed

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Yes, that but that "immediate need" isn't present when you're mining when you don't need it.



Mining when you need it is what prompts impatience with the system, and threads like this one. :lick:

Haha in the same respect. Hoarding stuff you don't need leads to threads started by folks complaining about things like WoD looting rights ruining their 20th undead slayer spellbook/tali drop. :lick:
 

Dermott of LS

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...

Personally speaking I'd rather spend those 2-3 hours I have for UO each week for something relaxing than crush my keyboard like a certain German kid while waiting for the random number generator to go my way,

The fallacy in your statement is that you think that I am "crushing my keyboard like a certain German kid" when I am mining. Further can be from the truth as I'm not WANTING the RNG to "go my way". I am mining for the whole of mining. I want as much of EVERY ingot type that I can get while mining and thus retain a supply for when I will need it (be it for BODs, be it for runic crafting, be it for working up Embueing when SA comes out).

I mine because I enjoy mining, getting a specific ore color is really secondary and at the moment a non-issue. When it becomes an issue, I will have it for the most part hadnled since I will have the resources gathered already.

I will freely admit that I am in a state of "squirell-like" gathering and storing in regards to how I play UO at the moment as I am saving up to maybe get the chance to afford a certain item that costs in the tens of millions of gold, but in the process, I am also mining as well as doing the mining alternatives to supplement the mining itself. Everything works on a revolving system where each tihng that I does supports another part of the system. When I get bored with doing one thing, I can go to something else.

Mining is not the ONLY thing I do in UO, but it is ONE of the activities I do.
 
C

Connor_Graham

Guest
Haha in the same respect. Hoarding stuff you don't need leads to threads started by folks complaining about things like WoD looting rights ruining their 20th undead slayer spellbook/tali drop. :lick:
WTF does this even remotely have to do with planning ahead for resource needs?


Oh wait, you were trying to troll weren't you?

Oh well, better luck next time. Here's your pointy hat, now off to the corner with you. :dunce:
 
S

Sadrith Mora

Guest
I'm serious guys, just change up what you are doing a bit and you may discover you like mining again. I don't go anywhere without a prospector's tool. I recall to my book of "val" spots first, they are the ones that I mark when I am wandering around mining instead of focused mining. I have val spots in this book that have been good over the past month.

Then if I want to do more mining I will go through my books of high yield ores and mine those to see what they are and then repeat on the ones that I want to repeat on. If I have a bad run I can just go mine up a mountainside, or I can take a prospector's tool and a garg pickaxe to fel delucia, and get a bunch of shadow stone, since shadow stoneware sells so much it doesn't hurt to stay in stock.

Wow, someone who knows what they're talking about. :)

Don't wish for static ore... Let there be rare ore, and remove the scripters!
 
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Whinemaker

Guest
The fallacy in your statement is that you think that I am "crushing my keyboard like a certain German kid" when I am mining. Further can be from the truth as I'm not WANTING the RNG to "go my way".
Let me apologise first... that statement wasn't directed at anyone and I didn't mean anyone else but myself when I wrote about keyboard crushing and the RNG (thus the poor attempt at the "personally speaking" thing). Sorry about the confusion caused.

I respect your play style. If mining is what you enjoy doing it's really not up to me to argue against it. All I want to say is, I personally can't find the enjoyment in mining like you can since they made mining "harder" so to speak. Before the changes I had a bit more control in terms of knowing what I need and where to get it so I could plan my gaming sessions ahead, and I liked that. That's all.
 

Draxous

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...

Personally speaking I'd rather spend those 2-3 hours I have for UO each week for something relaxing than crush my keyboard like a certain German kid while waiting for the random number generator to go my way,

The fallacy in your statement is that you think that I am "crushing my keyboard like a certain German kid" when I am mining. Further can be from the truth as I'm not WANTING the RNG to "go my way". I am mining for the whole of mining. I want as much of EVERY ingot type that I can get while mining and thus retain a supply for when I will need it (be it for BODs, be it for runic crafting, be it for working up Embueing when SA comes out).
There was no fallacy in his statement. An exaggeration... maybe, but no fallacy.

The point is that for a casual gamer, these changes have ruined the game for them (which you are obviously not from the way you describe you mine and being it's only "ONE of many" things you do.)

The biggest blow to Ultima Online and our community since Age of Shadows is to our casual gamers. You almost have to be a powergamer to survive/enjoy this game in it's entirety.

I think the point and highlight of this thread is that a change is needed and the change is needed in a compromise of sorts... where the ore veins switch up regularly, but not so regularly that a person who finds a good patch on a weekend can't spend the whole weekend enjoying the rewards of his/her find.

The frequency of the ore vein changes needs to be addressed.

That's the bottom line.
 

Gheed

Certifiable
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WTF does this even remotely have to do with planning ahead for resource needs?


Oh wait, you were trying to troll weren't you?

Oh well, better luck next time. Here's your pointy hat, now off to the corner with you. :dunce:
Geez man get off the moral high ground. You made a generalization about why people makes threads like this.

WTF does that generalization even remotely have to do with planning ahead for resource needs. I countered with a valid reason why hoarding crap you don't need may be considered somewhat unhealthy. Oh wait you were planting a little moral fiber in our diet... nom nom nom
 

Dermott of LS

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...

Your comparison of a special drop spellbook to a common resource in the game isn't the most valid to use.

Since I can stuff almost every stackable resource into a single secure (up to a stack of 60 of each resource), it's notthat big of an issue is it?

By your logic, why keep a box of tools in your garage? It's not like you need them all the time. Why keep more than a mael's worth of food in your cabinet/refrigerator? You don;t need the extra food right then. The example can be taken to either extreme.

Also as per your example and today's FoF explanation, other people attacking doesn't change the drop rate for special items on an individual basis (the "pie" of points grows to accomodate).

And quite frankly what ARE you doing crafting if you don't keep a steady supply of crafting resources at hand?
 
S

Sweeney

Guest
There was no fallacy in his statement. An exaggeration... maybe, but no fallacy.

The point is that for a casual gamer, these changes have ruined the game for them (which you are obviously not from the way you describe you mine and being it's only "ONE of many" things you do.)

The biggest blow to Ultima Online and our community since Age of Shadows is to our casual gamers. You almost have to be a powergamer to survive/enjoy this game in it's entirety.

I think the point and highlight of this thread is that a change is needed and the change is needed in a compromise of sorts... where the ore veins switch up regularly, but not so regularly that a person who finds a good patch on a weekend can't spend the whole weekend enjoying the rewards of his/her find.

The frequency of the ore vein changes needs to be addressed.

That's the bottom line.
Good point, and I think is in line with the original idea. A chance of changing once a month is a bit too much, and changing once every 10 depletions is too little. I wouldn't mind a change where the ore type changes every 3 days or so, but not lasting much longer.. exploration should be worth the effort.
 

Gheed

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...

Your comparison of a special drop spellbook to a common resource in the game isn't the most valid to use.

Since I can stuff almost every stackable resource into a single secure (up to a stack of 60 of each resource), it's notthat big of an issue is it?

By your logic, why keep a box of tools in your garage? It's not like you need them all the time. Why keep more than a mael's worth of food in your cabinet/refrigerator? You don;t need the extra food right then. The example can be taken to either extreme.

Also as per your example and today's FoF explanation, other people attacking doesn't change the drop rate for special items on an individual basis (the "pie" of points grows to accomodate).

And quite frankly what ARE you doing crafting if you don't keep a steady supply of crafting resources at hand?
I don't keep 20 screwdrivers in my toolbox. I keep an assortment of different tools to use in different scenarios. 20 screwdrivers are unnecessary. 20 spellbooks are unnecessary.

Food in the fridge... I like that! Honestly I would be lucky if any food at all were in there :D But I would consider it rude if I spent a week in the grocery store bread isle hording loaves of wheat bread.... then got all worked up if somebody swiped a loaf before I could get to it.

I don't disagree with your preferred method of mining. At least so much as to say that you don't enjoy it more. What I disagree with is that everyone else should be so content. I'm not. RNG ore is not improved. Prospectors tools and garg axes are not a better way to mine than before. Strip mining yields no more than it did before.

I have tried each and every method that you and others have so diligently explained many times over. I do not enjoy them. Please don't think that I should enjoy them. It's the means that I do not enjoy, not the end. I can still supplement methods to maintain the quantity of BoDs I could crank out before. I just don't like doing it. I am forced to be a mage or mine the same track of mountain. I am forced to use tools if I want to sway the RNG. I am forced to fight elementals if I want to increase my yield of a specific ore type. These things are all cycle breakers... annoying (to me) more to the point.

If mining were to go back to static you would still have your method. You could still strip mine for more yield over all (than most). You could still average produce your way through the process.

Would you quit mining if ore was static again?

Why is it that I should have to do things this way if I don't enjoy it?

Why is it wrong for me to enjoy mining too?

How many "love the mining changes now I mine more than ever before" threads do you see here on average?

You spend a lot of key strokes defending this change. Does that make you think just a little?

Quite frankly I dont craft anymore. I WOULD still be crafting if I just mined the ore I wanted when I wanted it. Thats the way I did it before you know? I still kept resources on hand. I just mined what I was getting low on. Same goes for the stock I sold. Whe I ran low I went mining. Now I dont craft at all. I don't sell resources at all. I don't enjoy gathering resources you see?
 
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