On siege faction items need a look

[Draxous]

Strategically speaking, if uber gear is readily available to everyone then we all might as well move to Lake Superior or Atlantic or someplace where the gear can be insured. Because, by making uber gear readily available, you are essentially insuring it.

You make no sense. How is making gear available to more than just the rich, that people still have to earn and replace constantly... the same as having gear that you never lose and is in your backpack when you res?

That's as ridiculous as saying "if you have a guardzone, you essentially have trammel."

You act like we don't all play Ultima Online or something?

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

You make no sense. How is making gear available to more than just the rich, that people still have to earn and replace constantly... the same as having gear that you never lose and is in your backpack when you res?

That's as ridiculous as saying "if you have a guardzone, you essentially have trammel."

You act like we don't all play Ultima Online or something?

Readily means easily. If you read Bruin's post, he uses 20k as a number that would be affordable to him for a really nice suit. A number that low is essentially insurance because 20k can be farmed in 10 minutes. So, you have just eliminated the risk part of risk versus reward.

Now, if your argument is that nice gear should be available to everyone, but it should be quite hard to get, then we are on the same page. As I said, I have no problem with anyone having nice gear. But, when nice gear is too easy to get, then we have lost what Siege is about. It is supposed to be harder than regular shards.

I think you want Siege to be the same as regular shards. You think that if everyone had easily replaceable uber gear, they would fight more because they wouldn't be scared to lose it. But, that isn't the Siege mentality. People are here because they want risk. People are here because it is harder. If you create a Siege that is easy, a Siege with no risk, then you won't have any players because that is why people left prodo shards for Siege in the first place.

If you've been paying attention at all, you will notice that everytime Trammel bleeds into Siege and things get "easier", we have less players. Your idea is just one step further down that road and excuse me if I don't want a part-time Siege player imposing the Atlantic ruleset on me. If you like that ruleset, please play Atlantic.

Ugh. Where is Masumatek when you need him?

 

[Bruin]

But, when nice gear is too easy to get, then we have lost what Siege is about. It is supposed to be harder than regular shards.

Now see you and I differ on what harder means, or specifically how it should be harder on Siege - at least that is how I interpret your views, let me know if I am wrong.

You feel that on a prodo shard if it takes for example 10 minutes to farm for insurance money for a suit it should take exponentially longer on siege to farm for that same suit.

I believe that siege is HARDER not because it takes a longer period of time to farm gold for that suit, but because at any moment on Siege no matter what you are doing, you can be killed/murdered, and that makes it harder. That in itself makes it more risky - you can farm 10k of gold in 6 minutes but die on the way to the bank and lose all your gold and gear you were hunting with.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

Now see you and I differ on what harder means, or specifically how it should be harder on Siege - at least that is how I interpret your views, let me know if I am wrong.

You feel that on a prodo shard if it takes for example 10 minutes to farm for insurance money for a suit it should take exponentially longer on siege to farm for that same suit.

I believe that siege is HARDER not because it takes a longer period of time to farm gold for that suit, but because at any moment on Siege no matter what you are doing, you can be killed/murdered, and that makes it harder. That in itself makes it more risky - you can farm 10k of gold in 6 minutes but die on the way to the bank and lose all your gold and gear you were hunting with.

I think both of those things make Siege harder. Where I disagree is that the ability to lose your suit doesn't really make it harder if the suit can be quickly replaced. The exception is if you are wearing low level gear. That should be easily replaceable. What BR and others are talking about is making high level gear easily replaceable. I don't think it should be. Again, if it is easily replaceable then you aren't really risking anything by wearing it.

That is the situation with faction armor now. That gear is the best gear that UO has ever seen. It is better than anything you can craft. It is better than anything in Doom. It is so good, it is making skills obsolete and destroying template balance. That is really the problem in my opinion.

Siege has always been different not just because you could lose your gear but because the dearth of high end gear meant that players had to use skills rather than items. We've lost that. With faction gear, Siege players are equipped as well as or better than production shard players. I don't think that is a good idea.

 

[ColterDC]

Before I headed out from UO, I thought I would play Siege because it was the supposedly vet shard, more like old school UO.

How wrong I was, everyone running around in artis and decked out crap just like a prodo shard. Especially the stealthers who rarely worry about dying along with the large "zerg" guilds.

God I miss the old days of dying and being able to throw on some GM armor, grabbing another weapon/some regs and getting right back into the fight.

Any of you posters who are complaining about losing your $hit on Seige, need to pack up whatever is left of your none existant balls and move to a regular shard, where you belong.

Good luck with your AoS infested shard.

 

[Draxous]

You make no sense. How is making gear available to more than just the rich, that people still have to earn and replace constantly... the same as having gear that you never lose and is in your backpack when you res?

That's as ridiculous as saying "if you have a guardzone, you essentially have trammel."

You act like we don't all play Ultima Online or something?

Readily means easily. If you read Bruin's post, he uses 20k as a number that would be affordable to him for a really nice suit. A number that low is essentially insurance because 20k can be farmed in 10 minutes. So, you have just eliminated the risk part of risk versus reward.

Now, if your argument is that nice gear should be available to everyone, but it should be quite hard to get, then we are on the same page. As I said, I have no problem with anyone having nice gear. But, when nice gear is too easy to get, then we have lost what Siege is about. It is supposed to be harder than regular shards.

I think you want Siege to be the same as regular shards. You think that if everyone had easily replaceable uber gear, they would fight more because they wouldn't be scared to lose it. But, that isn't the Siege mentality. People are here because they want risk. People are here because it is harder. If you create a Siege that is easy, a Siege with no risk, then you won't have any players because that is why people left prodo shards for Siege in the first place.

If you've been paying attention at all, you will notice that everytime Trammel bleeds into Siege and things get "easier", we have less players. Your idea is just one step further down that road and excuse me if I don't want a part-time Siege player imposing the Atlantic ruleset on me. If you like that ruleset, please play Atlantic.

Ugh. Where is Masumatek when you need him?

Readily does NOT mean easily. You cannot hunt monsters on Siege without the risk of being PK'd and you cannot PvP on siege without the risk of losing your gear. Those are 2 risks that Players on production shards do not have to subject themselves to.

Hunting monsters for loot is broken on Siege. The time/effort part of the Risk vs Reward equation is broken.

Period.

This is why you don't see the average Siege player playing in Assassins armor, Greymist armor... or hell, even something as simple as Totem of the Void... because the risk attached to those items is too high. This is why Siege players only go out with 1 blessed weapon instead of carrying 2-3 decent weapons to switch up in PvP. This is why, there is a huge divide between the rich and the average/poor.

This has absolutely nothing to do with anything bleeding over to Siege... the stuff's already here.

I'd rather kill someone and get gear that I can use off their corpse rather than the GM crap armor I always see. Uvtha would rather go out and kill an ancient wyrm and get a good set of jewels so he can sell them to us PvPers. Others would rather go and do the doom gauntlet and get items that they can sell to us PvPers or use in PvM instead of doing round after round trying to win the lottery... only to get a berzerkers maul that NOBODY WANTS!

I have no idea how you've developed the impression that if you keep posting non-sensible crap 500 times that you're going to win an argument.

You act like we don't all play Ultima Online or something?

Well welcome to Ultima Online 2009, where we have item properties and things like heart of the lion, rune beetle carapaces and the like... which people want to use, not lock down on the floor of their house.

 

[Draxous]

Before I headed out from UO, I thought I would play Siege because it was the supposedly vet shard, more like old school UO.

How wrong I was, everyone running around in artis and decked out crap just like a prodo shard. Especially the stealthers who rarely worry about dying along with the large "zerg" guilds.

God I miss the old days of dying and being able to throw on some GM armor, grabbing another weapon/some regs and getting right back into the fight.

Any of you posters who are complaining about losing your $hit on Seige, need to pack up whatever is left of your none existant balls and move to a regular shard, where you belong.

Good luck with your AoS infested shard.

Siege is not a classic shard. Its a Ultima Online shard with no trammel and item insurance... never has it been claimed to be otherwise.

If what we're suggesting (beefing up the loot drops) goes through on Siege... then those days that you miss will be the days we experience on Siege. You die, throw on a decent suit (cause they won't be ridiculously expensive to run) and go out and PvP on a semi-level playing field.

People won't be so scared to PvP and have fun... which is why most people have hiding and stealth... cause their too damn scared to lose their crap.

Risk vs Reward is currently broken... and people like this moonglowmerchant newb want to keep it that way.

No thank you.

 

[Draxous]

Now see you and I differ on what harder means, or specifically how it should be harder on Siege - at least that is how I interpret your views, let me know if I am wrong.

You feel that on a prodo shard if it takes for example 10 minutes to farm for insurance money for a suit it should take exponentially longer on siege to farm for that same suit.

I believe that siege is HARDER not because it takes a longer period of time to farm gold for that suit, but because at any moment on Siege no matter what you are doing, you can be killed/murdered, and that makes it harder. That in itself makes it more risky - you can farm 10k of gold in 6 minutes but die on the way to the bank and lose all your gold and gear you were hunting with.

I think both of those things make Siege harder. Where I disagree is that the ability to lose your suit doesn't really make it harder if the suit can be quickly replaced. The exception is if you are wearing low level gear. That should be easily replaceable. What BR and others are talking about is making high level gear easily replaceable. I don't think it should be. Again, if it is easily replaceable then you aren't really risking anything by wearing it.

I disagree that your notion of losing your suit doesn't really make it harder if the suit can be more easily replaced than it is now.

You have been trying to make it sound that Siege will turn into test center and all I have to do is go to the bank and say "give me arties" and *poof* they go in my backpack.

Someone will still have to kill the monster and get away with the loot without being PK'd. Someone will still have to kill monsters and earn the gold that it costs to buy those suit pieces. Someone will still have to PvP and kill another player and loot their corpse in order to get those items.

This is NOTHING like production shards where you get the item ONCE, insure it and then have it forever.

You're such a waste of time to argue with... it's not even funny.

Now go ahead and make another ridiculously exaggerated post because you want to stand in the way of making the shard better for everyone.

get real

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

I disagree that your notion of losing your suit doesn't really make it harder if the suit can be more easily replaced than it is now.

You have been trying to make it sound that Siege will turn into test center and all I have to do is go to the bank and say "give me arties" and *poof* they go in my backpack.

Someone will still have to kill the monster and get away with the loot without being PK'd. Someone will still have to kill monsters and earn the gold that it costs to buy those suit pieces. Someone will still have to PvP and kill another player and loot their corpse in order to get those items.

This is NOTHING like production shards where you get the item ONCE, insure it and then have it forever.

You're such a waste of time to argue with... it's not even funny.

Now go ahead and make another ridiculously exaggerated post because you want to stand in the way of making the shard better for everyone.

get real

Your chances of making the shard better by insulting people are zero.

If you want to convince people that you are correct, the best way to do it is by making a convincing argument. I'm sorry but I don't find your argument convincing. In fact, I'm not even sure that I know what your argument is other than stuff needs to be easier to get.

You know, one way to level the playing field is to give everyone high end gear. Another way to level the playing field is to give no one high end gear. I favor allowing people to have high end gear but not the kind of gear people are running regularly now. Those faction arties are overpowered. I imagine that if you polled the entire shard, most people would vote to get rid of them.

Which, takes us back to where we started. The place where you need to make a convincing argument otherwise. "Shut up Noob" isn't really effective. In fact, it just makes it look like you can't think of anything else.

 

[Bruin]

The whole crux of this is as follows:

A. You have uber high end gear, that only certain people can acquire, and that only certain people can use. Creating a class of haves and have nots and an impenetrable barrier between them.

This can generally be solved in one of three ways:

1. Get rid of all uber high end gear.
2. Make all uber high end gear available to everyone, useable by everyone, and easily attainable.
3. Make all uber high end gear available to everyone, useable by everyone, and difficult to attain. Therefore the principle “if you use it you can lose it” kicks in and whoever you lose it to now has the opportunity to use it.

Regardless of which solution you believe in, I’m sure we all can agree that problem A sucks and needs to be fixed, and right now I’d prefer any of solutions 1-3 over problem A. If I had my choice I’d go with solution 1 because I don’t like the move towards an item based game.

 

[Tjalle]

3. Make all uber high end gear available to everyone, useable by everyone, and difficult to attain. Therefore the principle “if you use it you can lose it” kicks in and whoever you lose it to now has the opportunity to use it.

I´d pick this one...

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

The whole crux of this is as follows:

A. You have uber high end gear, that only certain people can acquire, and that only certain people can use. Creating a class of haves and have nots and an impenetrable barrier between them.

This can generally be solved in one of three ways:

1. Get rid of all uber high end gear.
2. Make all uber high end gear available to everyone, useable by everyone, and easily attainable.
3. Make all uber high end gear available to everyone, useable by everyone, and difficult to attain. Therefore the principle “if you use it you can lose it” kicks in and whoever you lose it to now has the opportunity to use it.

Regardless of which solution you believe in, I’m sure we all can agree that problem A sucks and needs to be fixed, and right now I’d prefer any of solutions 1-3 over problem A. If I had my choice I’d go with solution 1 because I don’t like the move towards an item based game.

I agree. The only time I can remember the shard having this problem was when faction blessed armor was available and these new faction arties are way, way, way worse than that.

When the faction blessed armor went away, I don't remember anyone being that upset about it. I believe if the faction arties went away, not many would miss them either.

 

[Draxous]

When the faction blessed armor went away, I don't remember anyone being that upset about it. I believe if the faction arties went away, not many would miss them either.

They weren't upset about it because...

When it happened the loot drops on Siege were a lot higher. For example, when SE came out, Treasures of Tokuno were available. When ML first came out, ML arties dropped frequently and people often used Totem of the Voids, and so on... Swoops were frequently farmed and we'd have tons of fights at sprit gate in ilsh until they nerfed the hell out of them. After that with the magincia invasion, cursed artifacts became a hot commodity.

Now... faction artifacts are the new thing and unlike the ones before, you have to be in factions to use the newly available items. So a lot of people are left out with the item faucet turned off and nothing worth doing.

I for one, like the faction arties and I do not like the "owned by" tag that they carry. I am one of many who hold this point of view.

 

[Draxous]

3. Make all uber high end gear available to everyone, useable by everyone, and difficult to attain. Therefore the principle “if you use it you can lose it” kicks in and whoever you lose it to now has the opportunity to use it.

I´d pick this one...

You mean what we already have right now.

And the majority hate it.

yay

 

[Uvtha]

2. Make all uber high end gear available to everyone, useable by everyone, and [edit] MORE [/edit] easily attainable.

Is what I pick. I don't think you have to make things stupidly attainable or anything, and I DO think that if you wanna run a high end suit you should have to take the risk of losing it. I just think that outside of faction items that risk is too high.

I have to agree with BR here I think. The loot drops are designed for the insurance based world, and should be (and never will be) altered on siege. Things like artifacts, minors, set armor, runic tools... they should all be EASIER to get, but not EASY.

And it would only make sense to make them easier to get relative to their power. I think a person should be able to hunt one of the named ML mini bosses for a few hours and bring home like 5 pieces of set armor, or marties. And I think paragon drops should be radically higher. I can't remember the last time I got a marty, and I hunt in ilsh quite a bit, higher end stuff too.

If they turned up the drop rate on marties 100%, and doom 50%, I think that would go a long ways toward solving the problem without the need of the faction items.

 

[Bruin]

3. Make all uber high end gear available to everyone, useable by everyone, and difficult to attain. Therefore the principle “if you use it you can lose it” kicks in and whoever you lose it to now has the opportunity to use it.

I´d pick this one...

You mean what we already have right now.

And the majority hate it.

yay

Not necessarily - because if I kill you in your faction armour, I can loot your stuff but I can't use it (nor can I attain it in any way). Best I can do is sell it back to you and then I make a quick buck, but I still can't compete with you on the battlefield (so the chance of me actually killing you in the first place is slim to none).

So #3 would mean essentially turn off faction arties or make faction arties attainable and useable by anyone.

 

[Draxous]

3. Make all uber high end gear available to everyone, useable by everyone, and difficult to attain. Therefore the principle “if you use it you can lose it” kicks in and whoever you lose it to now has the opportunity to use it.

I´d pick this one...

You mean what we already have right now.

And the majority hate it.

yay

Not necessarily - because if I kill you in your faction armour, I can loot your stuff but I can't use it (nor can I attain it in any way). Best I can do is sell it back to you and then I make a quick buck, but I still can't compete with you on the battlefield (so the chance of me actually killing you in the first place is slim to none).

So #3 would mean essentially turn off faction arties or make faction arties attainable and useable by anyone.

hero/evil dyed items...

...

 

[Tjalle]

3. Make all uber high end gear available to everyone, useable by everyone, and difficult to attain. Therefore the principle “if you use it you can lose it” kicks in and whoever you lose it to now has the opportunity to use it.

I´d pick this one...

You mean what we already have right now.

And the majority hate it.

When I see the majority of Siege saying they hate it then I will believe you on that point. And I don´t mean the majority of the regular posters but the majority of the population.

But that will probably never happen cuz there seems to be many that play Siege that doesn´t post on Stratics...

 

[Bruin]

hero/evil dyed items...

...

Correct, which is why I dislike hero/evil dyed items. We have the magencia invasion, a specific number of cursed orny's drop, today they are all hero/evil dyed so I can't use them. At least back in the day when factions dyed nice 1/2 jewelry, at least I could acquire a 1/2 jewel hunting. Now non-faction cursed orny's don't spawn at all so I can never acquire/use one (and lets not even bring up doom). Again a situation that creates have and have nots in pvp.

 

[OldAsTheHills]

since this would only matter in siege because everywhere else people just insure there items, but anyway we need a turn in system so poeple may turn in others looted items maybe for half price in silver/credits that would eliminate the problems we are havin with everyone complaining about loosing there items and not getting fair sell back prices. This would just eliminate sellbacks all together.

I am not in Factions! The developers just did not offer me any reason to join.
The Faction items was a silly attempt to attract non-faction players to join.
I really do not care about those items, not even if they give the Factions a
permanent lock on the game against everyone who is non-Faction.

I thought two years ago that the developers should have placed requirements
upon player if they join Factions;
different requirement for each group would be deployed.
Karma, Murder counts, and Templates would stage the roles each Faction
does in the game.

The items was a quick fixture. I sure someone thought that the Faction
artifacts would pull, push, everyone into Factions; hence, more PvPing would
occur.

Because the Faction items are on the other shards, I doubt the developers
will remove them... since there was initial approval when they arrived here.
*shakes head*

But, I have a plan...

The developers should allow thieves on Siege Perilous to lockpick the entrance
doors and then have a chance to steal locked down artifacts <Faction or non-faction>
from the floors and from secure chests in all types of houses.
Note, I mean that the Thieves can only steal artifacts and nothing else.
Catching the burgular may be fun.

Let the Factions thieves steal them back!

This will break the hold on artifacts.

*stares*
Yahaxithonix

 

[Freelsy]

"Well welcome to Ultima Online 2009, where we have item properties and things like heart of the lion, rune beetle carapaces and the like... which people want to use, not lock down on the floor of their house."

Well hot damn, that statement is as perfect as it gets. Evermore, you would enjoy pvp more if you left A) your house B) guard zone...Stop complaining about faction artifacts. Its such a silly arguement. They allow players like myself, one that does not have alot of time to farm monsters, the ability to jump right into pvp with minimal effort.

The whole risk vs reward is still there...hell i was just killed in blighted farming silver. I would say that is high risk considering it gets checked about once an hour.

Tell me Evermore, what would you like Siege Perilous to be like? gm armor gm weapon fighting? the SAME thing day after day after day after day??




- Astynax

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

They allow players like myself, one that does not have alot of time to farm monsters, the ability to jump right into pvp with minimal effort.

- Astynax

I don't have any objection to people jumping into PvP with minimal effort. But, minimal effort should mean minimal equipment. Faction gear is not minimal equipment. It is better gear than anyone on Siege has ever worn. Yet, you feel that it allows you to jump into PvP with MINIMAL effort. THAT is the problem with faction arties.

If you want to wear the best gear on Siege then it damn well better take more than a minimal effort to get it.

 

[Mook Chessy]

If you want to wear the best gear on Siege then it damn well better take more than a minimal effort to get it.[/QUOTE]

If you actually ever farmed silver you would see how silly that statement really is...

My faction suit costs 80k in silver, if I get lucky and get a good run without being raided( which never happens) it takes me over 10 hours to farm that, how can you call that MINIMAL???

Not to mention that I also need jewls and runic armour (gorget/sleeves), so I need to buy or farm those items also and lets face it for a dexxer you can have the all the faction items you want, without a great weapon its a waste of time, so add in the time to farm the gold to aquire a blessable wep!

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

You should be addressing Asty no? He is the one who said that faction arties allow him to jump into PvP with minimal effort, not me.

However, think about it like this. How long would it take you to farm those items if they weren't available from factions? You think you could do it in 10 hours? Try 10 months or 10 years.

Farming for 10 hours ought to give you 10 hours worth of gear, which in UO isn't much. Instead farming for 10 hours gives you a better suit than anyone on Siege has ever had.

Do you not see the problem with that?

 

[Mook Chessy]

I think I will think about it as I stated, to wear a faction suit takes alot of effort period!

I guess I could just play a blue and try to get cheap kills buy jumping into faction fights, sound familiar?

Im done with the board pvp, cya in game!!

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

I think I will think about it as I stated, to wear a faction suit takes alot of effort period!

Well, we have Asty saying it takes minimal effort. We have you saying you can replace your entire suit of artifact plus quality items in 10 hours. I agree. You should stop posting. Unless of course you want to keep proving my point.

I hate to break this to you but factions isn't for uber PvPers, it isn't for tough guys. It is for people who rely on equipment over skills and need a shortcut to get there. When you are in factions and don't wear the gear, then you'll be a tough guy. I'm not holding my breath for that.

 

[Freelsy]

We are talking about two different things here....effort and time.

For me it takes minimal effort...why? because all you have to do it stand there with a tamer...besides you all cant kill me anyways

Time? Hell yah it takes a while to farm up the silver...but its not hard. Just takes a good amount of time.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Thats what makes faction artifacts great though. If you spend a decent amount of time, with minimal effort you can participate in Siege pvp...you dont have to sit around and farm monsters to get a mil or two to spend on a decent suit and weapon. You can farm silver on your own and jump right into it....its great. Allows for an easier start and a wide variety of templates.


- Astynax

 

[Skwiz]

Well, we have Asty saying it takes minimal effort. We have you saying you can replace your entire suit of artifact plus quality items in 10 hours. I agree. You should stop posting. Unless of course you want to keep proving my point.

It hate o break this to you but factions isn't for uber PvPers, it isn't for tough guys. It is for people who rely on equipment over skills and need a shortcut to get there. When you are in factions and don't wear the gear, then you'll be a tough guy. I'm not holding my breath for that.

Scorn the only reason you do not like faction items is because you .. being the person you are, Are too afraid to go into factions.. meaning you do not have access to the gear (Risk v.s Reward).

Next..

"It hate o break this to you but factions isn't for uber PvPers, it isn't for tough guys. It is for people who rely on equipment over skills and need a shortcut to get there."

All of the skilled pvpers are in factions on siege.. Personally.. ive been factions since i was about 100+ Each skill, Long before these items. I enjoy factions for more pvp.. More oranges.

Now these items, only encourage this.
People see the items and think " Damn i'd like to use that " More faction players join.. More pvp occurs.

Also.. With regular armor you can still get some very nice mods.. You just have to be willing to run the suits..

Alot of people on siege, before the Faction Armor was introduced, still ran completely sick suits..

Throwaway

Rune beetle
Human/Elf Feys
*Cursed* Orny
Anci Sammi Helm
Crimson Centure
Quiver of Inf.
Heart Of the Lion
Vio Courage
Totem of the Void
ect..

You have access to the items as a Blue, Your suits will not be 100% As good as a faction suit, but you trade that for, Guardzone, Self Res, Compassion Res.. ect ect.

You run Sami Helm and Sometimes... Ok Runics, Why not run a better suit?

Is it because,

A) Faction Suits are better
or
B) You are afraid to lose a good suit because you are skillless as a pvper?


"When you are in factions and don't wear the gear, then you'll be a tough guy. I'm not holding my breath for that."


First Day i joined Com (With 0 Punkte) I used a Full non faction suit.. Mods were around

45% DCI
40% LMC
5MR
60 / 70 / 60 / 65 / 65

I pvped all day with that suit and did just fine.


All it comes down to is this..

You can be in factions, Farm for 10-20 Hours for Enough silver for 1 or 2 suits.

Or be Non Factions, Farm for 10-20 Hours for Enough Gold for prolly more than 2 suits.. Plus you can just Farm ish Named monsters / paragons for Gold + Arties like Aegis of Grace / Totem of the Void. AND! You will prolly be undisturbed because people check Silver Spots more than Swoop or Miasma.

Be in factions, wear the gear, and have the RISK of losing it anywhere outside of a house.

Be Non Factions, wear non faction gear, and Do Not have the RISK of losing it anywhere outside of a house, While Having.. Self Res incase something happens.. OR your personal favorite. Guardzone.

 

[SavageSP]

Fact- Siege has always been Item Dependent. When I first came here there were always Players and Guilds that ran Prodo style suits, and would only come out in numbers or if they thought they had zero chance to lose.

Even in Runic and decent gear you were at a disadvantage unless you ran the same stuff. Faction Gear has leveled the playing Field, but now no-one wants to come out and lose a suit unless they have at least even odds.

I hate the Gear that was put in, it was dumb to take Artifacts and add props, it should have been all new Gear but less powerfull, or craftable. The Gear that we got devalued the Artifacts they cloned, and are completely unfair to players that hate factions.
That being said I dont want to see the Gear disappear, if it goes most of us(that PVP!) will go back to being at a huge disadvantage again.

If it stays on Siege it should drop to prodo level silver rate(1000 Silver for Rank 1, not 5000 Silver for Rank 1) *slaps devs* Prodo farms it once and blesses it!!! we have to farm 5 times as much and lose it on Death!!

If it was at 1X Rate we could run 5 back up suits and not be farming all damn day and night! Make it "no names" or turn in for 50% Silver, but please reduce the Rate. Buy back between Deaths are stupid ICQ drama sessions!
Who knows, maybe some of these blues that do nothing but complain about Factions(until theres a battle they can jump in with nothing to lose but GM crap or run naked) might join and PVP with a "SET"..

PS- Dont quote a half of one of my sentences, look at the context of what I said and quote that faction haters.

 

[T'Challa]

PS- Dont quote a half of one of my sentences, look at the context of what I said and quote that faction haters.

The only thing I'm going to quote is that. Since you obviously have a "SET" of blinders on when it comes to players who are not interested in factions, it's not worth it to even try and explain.

However, I do have one question. How is it, if they were to remove faction gear, would it be that those of you (who PVP!) would be at a disadvantage again? You would be running the same gear everyone else does. Sounds balanced to me, no advantage to either side. Faction items were the stupidest thing ever added to UO.

 

[SavageSP]

They allow players like myself, one that does not have alot of time to farm monsters, the ability to jump right into pvp with minimal effort.

- Astynax

I don't have any objection to people jumping into PvP with minimal effort. But, minimal effort should mean minimal equipment. Faction gear is not minimal equipment. It is better gear than anyone on Siege has ever worn. Yet, you feel that it allows you to jump into PvP with MINIMAL effort. THAT is the problem with faction arties.

If you want to wear the best gear on Siege then it damn well better take more than a minimal effort to get it.

My Dexer Suit-RBC 5K/Fey Legs 5K/Stormgrip 5K/Ring of the Vile 10K/Crimson 10K/Primer 15K/Folded Glasses 20K= 70K Silver Plus Runic Arms/Gorget

Go Farm 70K silver and tell me how long that takes you and what kinda effort is involved in hours and hours of farming, getting raided over and over, resetting spawn etc. and then jump out orange like you did for 3 days, lose that 70K in a few minutes and go farm it over again because the blue GZ hugging Dismount tamer that killed you doesnt sell back, he trashes Faction Gear!

 

[SavageSP]

PS- Dont quote a half of one of my sentences, look at the context of what I said and quote that faction haters.

The only thing I'm going to quote is that. Since you obviously have a "SET" of blinders on when it comes to players who are not interested in factions, it's not worth it to even try and explain.

However, I do have one question. How is it, if they were to remove faction gear, would it be that those of you (who PVP!) would be at a disadvantage again? You would be running the same gear everyone else does. Sounds balanced to me, no advantage to either side. Faction items were the stupidest thing ever added to UO.

you didnt read this part of my post did you?
"I hate the Gear that was put in, it was dumb to take Artifacts and add props, it should have been all new Gear but less powerfull, or craftable. The Gear that we got devalued the Artifacts they cloned, and are completely unfair to players that hate factions.
That being said I dont want to see the Gear disappear, if it goes most of us(that PVP!) will go back to being at a huge disadvantage again."
Maybe if the Items were at 1X rate non Faction Blues wouldnt jump in battles they have no bussiness fighting in.....they might just join Factions, stop huggin the GZ and fight on an even level instead of saying lets attack the reds and run back to the GZ, or lets suicide on one and let our stealth oranges hit him half life and stat him .......

 

[SavageSP]

The only thing I'm going to quote is that. Since you obviously have a "SET" of blinders on when it comes to players who are not interested in factions, it's not worth it to even try and explain.

However, I do have one question. How is it, if they were to remove faction gear, would it be that those of you (who PVP!) would be at a disadvantage again? You would be running the same gear everyone else does. Sounds balanced to me, no advantage to either side. Faction items were the stupidest thing ever added to UO.

How many sets of sammy helm/human fey legs/Orny/Heart of the Lion or RBC/ Inquisitors do you have? how many do your guild mates have? because we were running into alot of people running artied out suits before this stupid gear ever showed its face here.

 

[T'Challa]

Maybe if the Items were at 1X rate non Faction Blues wouldnt jump in battles they have no bussiness fighting in

Who are you to say who's business is what? This is an MMO, if you don't like dealing with other people (whether or not they are doing something you approve of or not) then perhaps console games are more for you.

they might just join Factions, stop huggin the GZ and fight on an even level instead of saying lets attack the reds and run back to the GZ

Ah, here is your problem, and it has nothing to do with factions. You are playing a red, and opportunistic blues will ALWAYS be taking potshots at you.

or lets suicide on one and let our stealth oranges hit him half life and stat him

Again, this is a sandbox game. If you don't like the kitty turds others are throwing into the sandbox, then do something about it. Many options come to mind, but I believe I'll let you try finding them yourself (hint: there are many places in Sosaria w/o guard zones)

 

[Tjalle]

If it was at 1X Rate we could run 5 back up suits and not be farming all damn day and night!

The thing is that no one is forcing you to farm anything.

If you lose your faction suit, put something else on and get back out on the field.

 

[T'Challa]

How many sets of sammy helm/human fey legs/Orny/Heart of the Lion or RBC/ Inquisitors do you have? how many do your guild mates have? because we were running into alot of people running artied out suits before this stupid gear ever showed its face here.

Quite a few!

Ask around to anyone that knows me or has looted me in the past, I use 'em!

And your argument here falls flat on it's face, since many of the items you listed are still fully available, to everyone on the shard, faction and non-faction alike. Those that aren't have very good equivalents available. Faction items are only available to someone in a faction, and to top it off, their properties blow away the original arties they were modeled after. I'm sorry, but it is to your disadvantage to remain unaligned with a faction now, that's all there is to it, and it's BS.

 

[T'Challa]

The thing is that no one is forcing you to farm anything.

If you lose your faction suit, put something else on and get back out on the field.

But they do force him to farm, since virtually everyone on siege feels they have to to max their suit in every way possible. To do this, you need faction items. They are hugely unbalanced over anything a non-faction player can wear, and they're available in a friggin box. Every faction player who cries about "farming" doesn't realize that at least every time they kill that critter, they are *guaranteed* to be closer to their goal (silver to buy arties with)

For everyday gear farmers, we get the RNG to deal with. It sucks.

 

[SavageSP]

I have 7 characters, 5 are Minax 1 is a crafter 1 is a Training Blue future Faction Character, I love Factions. If your in Factions and you want to compete, you wear Faction Gear. I didnt put this crap in, but i can get it easier then Tokuno Majors that no longer spawn, Sammy Helms I dont have Tokens for, Human fey legs that spawn how often?
I get that some ppl hate Stat loss, I hate it also, but make that a seperate battle, if you can run Gear that evens the Field youd be more inclined to join Factions.
Let me ask you and any others here that PVP, why wont you join Factions? Statloss? you like to have GZ safety? make statloss your fight or accept the fact you cant leave the Guards Nurturing Bosom

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

I can't respond to that entire rambling, nonsensical post, but I will reply to one part.

Scorn the only reason you do not like faction items is because you .. being the person you are, Are too afraid to go into factions.. meaning you do not have access to the gear (Risk v.s Reward).

Raise your hand if you were in factions on Siege when it was possible to bless armor.

*looks at a few hands go up*

Raise your hand if you were in factions at that time but refused to wear blessed armor.

*looks at one hand go up*

You see Skwiz, I don't like things easy. So, when faction armor was blessed, I didn't wear it. Now, faction arties are overpowered, so I don't use them either. I think using them shows a dependence on items rather than skill and I'd rather test my skill than my suit.

If you can't PvP without the absolute best gear then by all means factions is for you. I can, so I don't need it.

Really though, if you are going to wear that stuff, why not just go play on a Trammel shard? If you like it easy, that is a better place for you.

 

[Uvtha]

But they do force him to farm, since virtually everyone on siege feels they have to to max their suit in every way possible. To do this, you need faction items. They are hugely unbalanced over anything a non-faction player can wear, and they're available in a friggin box. Every faction player who cries about "farming" doesn't realize that at least every time they kill that critter, they are *guaranteed* to be closer to their goal (silver to buy arties with)

For everyday gear farmers, we get the RNG to deal with. It sucks.

*nods*

 

[T'Challa]

You're deflecting my question.

The issue isn't "why doesn't he want to play factions?"

The issue is "why should he *have* to join factions to have balanced gameplay?"

 

[SavageSP]

You're deflecting my question.

The issue isn't "why doesn't he want to play factions?"

The issue is "why should he *have* to join factions to have balanced gameplay?"

There isnt and never has been balanced Game Play, Siege has always been Item Dependent, its a matter of the Haves/Have-Nots/ and Naked Refuse Nots

Im saying if you PVP and you can equalize your gear by farming silver a few hours at 1X rate rather then spending hundreds of hours farming 5x rate or (idoc/T-hunt your Majors and Helms) because your home all day everyday or spending RL cash buying pixels. You might be inclined to be orange, not hide in a GZ only to jump out naked to help your Oranges fight a battle you dont belong in.

What is Balanced about Blues deciding Faction Fights??
I have 1 Red, he is Red from killing non faction Blues that jump into Faction Fights, and faction Jumping Guilds that are apparently afraid to stay Orange to little ole TNT scrubs because they follow us everywhere, first they like red , then they like green, now they like red again, factions should have Guild Tied Factions, more then 4, make em up and make cookie cutter "Minax" bases for Guilds to Control.

 

[T'Challa]

Still deflecting...

*edit* also...

not hide in a GZ only to jump out naked to help your Oranges fight a battle you dont belong in.

I thought I addressed this already. It isn't your place (or anyone else's) to decide who belongs where.

 

[SavageSP]

I can't respond to that entire rambling, nonsensical post, but I will reply to one part.

Scorn the only reason you do not like faction items is because you .. being the person you are, Are too afraid to go into factions.. meaning you do not have access to the gear (Risk v.s Reward).

Raise your hand if you were in factions on Siege when it was possible to bless armor.

*looks at a few hands go up*

Raise your hand if you were in factions at that time but refused to wear blessed armor.

*looks at one hand go up*

You see Skwiz, I don't like things easy. So, when faction armor was blessed, I didn't wear it. Now, faction arties are overpowered, so I don't use them either. I think using them shows a dependence on items rather than skill and I'd rather test my skill than my suit.

If you can't PvP without the absolute best gear then by all means factions is for you. I can, so I don't need it.

Really though, if you are going to wear that stuff, why not just go play on a Trammel shard? If you like it easy, that is a better place for you.

This coming from the Blue GZ Huggin Evermore, you have a leash attached to your mount and Luna GZ that reaches your Luna House, you dont need this Gear Because you have a 100 pound Guardzone on your back to defend you, you wont flag on anyone unless your positive you can get them down or have a pet at your back, Whats fair about your "honorable" tweakin the GZ tactics, its people like you that make me go red, and i keep a red just for you and your buddies.

 

[T'Challa]

This coming from the Blue GZ Huggin Evermore, you have a leash attached to your mount and Luna GZ that reaches your Luna House, you dont need this Gear Because you have a 100 pound Guardzone on your back to defend you, you wont flag on anyone unless your positive you can get them down or have a pet at your back, Whats fair about your "honorable" tweakin the GZ tactics, its people like you that make me go red, and i keep a red just for you and your buddies.

You're getting too emotional to have a rational conversation, sire...Talk to me, not him.

 

[Skwiz]

You see Skwiz, I don't like things easy. So, when faction armor was blessed, I didn't wear it. Now, faction arties are overpowered, so I don't use them either. I think using them shows a dependence on items rather than skill and I'd rather test my skill than my suit.

Yes because as a Mage.. your suit casts the spells, targets the players, xheals, invises, and many other things for you...

You talk about skill scorn, Since ive seen you on your current template Ive seen you use, Lightning Strike, Explosion, Flame strike, for offensive, Wow.. Whats that.. f1 f2 f3.. You sure are showing off some amazing skills there bro.

Hey try playing Scorn again, ya know your Necro Mage.. Oh wait! Thats more than 3 Macros.. No wonder.

 

[Kat]

You're deflecting my question.

The issue isn't "why doesn't he want to play factions?"

The issue is "why should he *have* to join factions to have balanced gameplay?"

Actually, you don't even play Siege enough to have a valid opinion on any of this. You're like a dog who can only sit behind the fence and bark, but will never come out to play! Go on back into the dog house and go back to sleep, Fido. This doesn't concern you.

 

[SavageSP]

You're deflecting my question.

The issue isn't "why doesn't he want to play factions?"

The issue is "why should he *have* to join factions to have balanced gameplay?"

Im not deflecting, I said above that I didnt think it was fair to non faction to compete against faction Gear, I also said that there was never Balance here before, but that in Factions now, Faction Vs Faction its as close to balanced as its ever been.

Why should I have to Fight a Faction Base Battle when 3 of the 6 there Im fighting are Blue Tamers I cant fight until they get the "First Shot"?? whats balanced about that?? stop deflecting my questions. They can join Factions and take the risks I take if they want to fight Fair.

 

[T'Challa]

Actually, you don't even play Siege enough to have a valid opinion on any of this.

I log in and play every day, Kat. Just not with you.

You're like a dog who can only sit behind the fence and bark, but will never come out to play! Go on back into the dog house and go back to sleep, Fido. This doesn't concern you.

You are the last one to talk. Quit attacking me personally and come on out of hiding, fraidykat. You are adding absolutely nothing to this thread. If anyone should step out, it would be you, trollgirl.

 

[T'Challa]

Im not deflecting, I said above that I didnt think it was fair to non faction to compete against faction Gear, I also said that there was never Balance here before, but that in Factions now, Faction Vs Faction its as close to balanced as its ever been.

Why should I have to Fight a Faction Base Battle when 3 of the 6 there Im fighting are Blue Tamers I cant fight until they get the "First Shot"?? whats balanced about that?? stop deflecting my questions. They can join Factions and take the risks I take if they want to fight Fair.

I give up. You are way too closeminded and now yer momma is here to throw insults, gotta go!