Tech Question- Groundhog Day for Windows Update

[Connor_Graham]

I've got one windows update that has been showing up day after day for over a week now. It shows up when I first turn my computer on in the morning, I download it, then it stays gone until the next morning, when lo and behold, there it is again.

Is anyone else running into this groundhog day-esque update showing up every day as if it had not been downloaded already? I've tried everything I can think of to try to get this thing to go away with no success. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I might be able to try that I haven't already? It's starting to get annoying.

Thanks in advance for any help you may provide!

 

[Harlequin]

Check the history to see if something went wrong. Here's a better troubleshooting guide from MS:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=910339

 

[Aboo]

I have been having the same problem except it's every evening when I shut the computer down. I get the message that I have an update and when the update is complete the computer will then shut down. It never does the update and the next night I get the same message. It's only on one of my computers.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Check the history to see if something went wrong. Here's a better troubleshooting guide from MS:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=910339

Wow, according to the history, the one particular update has been installed 32 times...

I'll go through the steps that shows and see if it solves the problem. I'll update this thread once I get done with it so Aboo and anyone else that happens to be experiencing the same issue will know which step fixed it.

Thanks for that link!

 

[Aboo]

. . . I'll update this thread once I get done with it so Aboo and anyone else that happens to be experiencing the same issue will know which step fixed it. . .

Thank you, I would sure appreciate it!

 

[Harlequin]

No problemo It happens often enough that MS wrote a nice kb for it.

Most of the times it's just due to a file/registry not being installed/updated correctly and the update automatically rolled back.

Reasons could be anything from to AV software blocking sensitive files, locked files, insufficient disk space or a bad sector (PC normally crashes if it's a bad sector).

Aboo - You might want to give the MS article a quick run over too.

 

[Aboo]

. . .Aboo - You might want to give the MS article a quick run over too.

I printed it out so I can look it over a little later and have it on hand when I get home. Thanks for the help!

 

[Connor_Graham]

Well, I went through all of the steps to try and fix the problem via the troubleshooting guide with no luck. I've had to email Microsoft through Help & Support with a description of the problem. According to the site I should hear from them within 1 business day. I'll let everyone know what happens once I hear from them.

 

[ColterDC]

Why do you turn your computer off every night?

I always thought it was better to just leave it running?

 

[Harlequin]

Well, I went through all of the steps to try and fix the problem via the troubleshooting guide with no luck. I've had to email Microsoft through Help & Support with a description of the problem. According to the site I should hear from them within 1 business day. I'll let everyone know what happens once I hear from them.

Weird problem all right. All the 32 attempts completed successfully right? Even the one under safe mode?

 

[Aboo]

Why do you turn your computer off every night?

I always thought it was better to just leave it running?

I turn mine off because leaving it on every night begins to make it run very slow.

 

[Harlequin]

Why do you turn your computer off every night?

I always thought it was better to just leave it running?

Overall it's much better to switch off your PC if you are not using it. Saves on wear/tear. For servers it's a different story, esp those with older hdd. They have been running so hard for so long that when you power them off, they sometimes can't spin up and fails. Then you've got to coax them into slowly starting like an old car...

Other reasons for swithing off : Electricity, heat, noise, carbon signature, energy wastage, higher bills, think of the trees!, short circuits, house fire, global warming, melting ice caps...

 

[DevilsOwn]

gahh.... used to turn off my pc alla time, then read, in numerous places, that it's better to leave it running, that shutting down/booting every day is what wears it down

I'm so confused

 

[Fogsbane]

update 967715 repeated install?

It may be Roxio DLA causing issues.

You could try this ~>
uninstall update 967715, uninstall Roxio DLA, reinstall update 967715

 

[ColterDC]

gahh.... used to turn off my pc all time, then read, in numerous places, that it's better to leave it running, that shutting down/booting every day is what wears it down

That is exactly what the IT guys I work with have also said.

Turning your computer off and on every day will wear it our faster.

But you should turn your monitors off when you're done.

At least that is what I've heard.

 

[Harlequin]

I've heard the same thing about air-conditioners too

Most of the time, it's the power surges or spikes when you power on that fry the circuits. That's the reason which lends credence to this school of thought.

Keeping it powered up will reduce the chances of an initial power surge from frying your comp, but vastly increase the chances of power spikes doing the same thing during the 8 hours you are sleeping (eg lightning strikes hitting the power lines etc). Statiscally, the chances of the latter happening is much higher.

Also, remember, if you keep it powered up, even if the CPU is idling (which it's not, it's continually polling your devices/network/antivirus/screensaver) the fans (motherboard fan, cpu fan, graphics card fan, chasis fan) keep running. At the very least, the fans are definitely going to burn out alot faster.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Weird problem all right. All the 32 attempts completed successfully right? Even the one under safe mode?

I couldn't get it to let me save it to my desktop. I tried twice and each time it told me to install the validation tool, then automatically downloaded the problem program immediately after. I'm thinking the validation tool may have something wrong with it because of this. It shouldn't ask me to download it more than once.

 

[Connor_Graham]

update 967715 repeated install?

It may be Roxio DLA causing issues.

You could try this ~>
uninstall update 967715, uninstall Roxio DLA, reinstall update 967715

As far as I know, I don't have Roxio on my computer.

 

[Aboo]

That is exactly what the IT guys I work with have also said.

Turning your computer off and on every day will wear it our faster.

But you should turn your monitors off when you're done.

At least that is what I've heard.

Our IT people suggested turning them off every night except for Thursdays which is when we do an indepth scan of our computers. Since the people who we pay to know about these things advised us at work to do that, I do it at home too and notice better performance on my computer when I shut it down as opposed to the occasions when I forget and leave it on all night.

 

[Harlequin]

So the installation attempts all failed due to validation errors?

Saving to desktop as in you are downloading the update and trying to run it offline? Is it update 967715 as Fogsbane mentioned?

Roxio is a CD/DVD burning software that's normally packaged as together with the drivers for certain CD/DVD writers. Unless they gave you Nero or Alcohol instead. If you were giving the latter 2, then you're pretty safe.

 

[ColterDC]

Did a quick search on whether to turn your computer off and on every day.

In the past (1993 and earlier) it may have been beneficial to leave the computer on because of potential power switch related issues with some computer manufacturers. However, this issue was not always applicable and today is no longer an issue with any computer. Although it is still possible for components to become bad in a computer, it is almost always not attributed to turning the computer on and off each day.

The answer to this question really depends upon how you use your computer. Our recommendation for most users is when the computer is first turned on that it remains on until it is late and you don't plan on using it until the next day. However, if you are actively running anything on the computer or you wish for tasks to run during the night such as a backup, scandisk, defrag, or a virus scan, it is recommend that the computer remain on all night.

In short, it is neither good nor bad to turn off the computer each day or for you to leave the computer on all day every day.

Note: If you decide to leave your computer on all day we still recommend that the computer monitor be turned off.

Sorry for the OT discussion Connor.

 

[Connor_Graham]

So the installation attempts all failed due to validation errors?

No, they all installed. The reason I questioned the validation was the fact that it asked me to keep downloading it after it already had been.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Sorry for the OT discussion Connor.

Eh, no worries. I always just let mine run all day and just turned it off in the evening when I was done with it for the day. Mostly because I didn't want to wait for it to start up again.

 

[Jhym]

Actually unless the system is over 10 years old, you should use the sleep or hibernate modes, even on a desktop.

Usually I put my desktop in hibernate (it is hooked up to my hdtv so the monitor isn't an issue.) Normally it will start back up in 2-5 seconds. In those modes it uses only a trickle of power, if any at all.

I leave my laptop running all the time because I have some nightly things that need to happen.

Also, I have a surge supressor on my line to make sure I don't get hit. However, I usually don't have problems with that in a city -- in Florida I definitely needed a UPS/surge supressor. It's also good to have your network hardware on the UPS if you have one.

As for a work computer, you need to let the IT folks tell you what to do -- at my client, for instance, we back up the computers EVERY night, and thus need them on.

As for monitors, most monitors have standby and sleep modes if they are energy star rated. So just let them go to sleep and you should be fine.

For the op, it sounds very much like the verification tool is failing, which would then cause their stupid 'pirate' check to fail in the patch it is running. I would pull the verification tool down ( I believe you can run it separately) and then see what it says. I presume you've done the windows activation stuff long ago. Remember if you switch primary components or reinstall windows at any point that it will demand you reactivate.

I seem to remember there was some uproar when they added the verification tool; something about it not always recognizing valid copies of windows. But that was years ago and I don't recall exactly what the issue was.

 

[Dor of Sonoma]

...Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I might be able to try that I haven't already? It's starting to get annoying.

Yes. Turn off Windows Update.

Set it to manual, so that you decide when or if you wish to download anything.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Yes. Turn off Windows Update.

Set it to manual, so that you decide when or if you wish to download anything.

I've got it set so that it only notifies me there is an update available. Unfortunately there's no way to make it go away if you don't want the update. This particular one is necessary though, so I do need to get it fixed.

 

[Jhym]

To "turn off" an update:

go to windows update WEBPAGE
press the custom button to get a list of what it suggests
If you wish to turn off an update, make sure it is un-checked, then open the little [+], there's a checkbox to turn off the update.

if you change your mind, the left side menu has "restore hidden updates" to put it back.

 

[Connor_Graham]

To "turn off" an update:

go to windows update WEBPAGE
press the custom button to get a list of what it suggests
If you wish to turn off an update, make sure it is un-checked, then open the little [+], there's a checkbox to turn off the update.

if you change your mind, the left side menu has "restore hidden updates" to put it back.

Oh, I know how to do that. This particular one shows up anyway. I tried that earlier. It kept showing up on my computer even when it didn't show on the windows update page.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

Hey Conner, perhaps you'd get more help if you specified WHICH update is repeating.

If it's the XML core services one (and I'd be willing to bet that it is if you didn't already know ), kill auto-updates, uninstall all the MSXML entries in your Add/Remove Programs list, re-enable auto-updates.

It should install once more and that should be it. If it keeps asking, repeat the process as need be.

If this is not the update that's repeating, state which update it is.

 

[Aboo]

. . .Also, I have a surge supressor on my line to make sure I don't get hit. However, I usually don't have problems with that in a city -- in Florida I definitely needed a UPS/surge supressor. It's also good to have your network hardware on the UPS if you have one. . .

That leads me to a question I hope someone can answer. I have my main computer hooked up to a UPS but my modem isn't plugged into it. Should it be? Is that what you mean here?

 

[Bomb Bloke]

It's a good idea to surge protect your phone line, ESPECIALLY if it's plugged into your PC directly.

The mains power going into your computer goes through a bigass power supply unit which transforms the current and provides a small level of surge protection (not to be relied on, but it's there) on it's own.

A modem built into your computer is attached directly to your motherboard. Any surges on that line are far more likely to wreck your system then surges from the mains are.

If you've got an external modem (or modem router) it doesn't matter quite so much, but it's still a good idea.

 

[AesSedai]

I haven't run into an endless loop MS update, but:

That leads me to a question I hope someone can answer. I have my main computer hooked up to a UPS but my modem isn't plugged into it. Should it be? Is that what you mean here?

- It depends. If you plug your modem / router into the UPS, you will have online service if your 'power' fails. But at the same time, if your power fails there is a good chance that your online service will fail too (especially if the 'oak tree' that knocked out your power also hit your broadband line or knocked one of your internet / broadband 'hops'' power out as well ). So... with a UPS your computer should remain on long enough to save everything you are doing. And if you choose to plug your modem / router into the UPS as well, then that will keep going too, until your UPS's battery runs out. As far as UO goes.. & as long as you don't have super important stuff running on your computer at the same time, ya' might as well plug the modem / router into it too, in hopes that some OK thunderstorm only knocks out your electricity & -not- your internet link (or any other links on the way to UO HQ). That way you might be able to safely log out & turn your computer off without any unfortunate mishaps Crazy electricity stuffs; but it definitely happens & I hope that helps, some.

 

[Harlequin]

Actually unless the system is over 10 years old, you should use the sleep or hibernate modes, even on a desktop.

Usually I put my desktop in hibernate (it is hooked up to my hdtv so the monitor isn't an issue.) Normally it will start back up in 2-5 seconds. In those modes it uses only a trickle of power, if any at all.

I leave my laptop running all the time because I have some nightly things that need to happen.

Also, I have a surge supressor on my line to make sure I don't get hit. However, I usually don't have problems with that in a city -- in Florida I definitely needed a UPS/surge supressor. It's also good to have your network hardware on the UPS if you have one.

As for a work computer, you need to let the IT folks tell you what to do -- at my client, for instance, we back up the computers EVERY night, and thus need them on.

Yes, hibernation is a good alternative if you want it to start up quickly. For office PCs, let your IT folks decide. They may need want it up to do nightly backups/scans/updates.

That leads me to a question I hope someone can answer. I have my main computer hooked up to a UPS but my modem isn't plugged into it. Should it be? Is that what you mean here?

A surge will fry the modem, though likely leave your PC unharmed. So, yes, plug in your modem to the UPS as well. Or one of those power extensions with surge protectors.

Also consider a surge protector for the phone line to your modem if you are using dialup/ADSL. Had an old 56k modem go pop during a thunderstorm, lighting hit some phone lines nearby. Phones were fine, but the surge blew out a chip/capacitor in the modem.



@Conner: If all the installation completed, it might be failing to update the registry properly. In this case, it's better to wait for MS' reply. Troubleshooting probs with the registry is a bit risky. If you can, google the particular update (the number that says something like 967715), and see if there are other people with the same problem.

 

[Connor_Graham]

(the number that says something like 967715),

Funny, this is exactly the update I'm having troubles with.

Anyway, I heard from MS this morning. They had me download a security patch they said is the usual cause of this particular update getting screwed up which didn't fix the problem. So the next step they give me to try is to download this update from a different location than the one you find on the website, save it to desktop, then restart the computer in safe mode. I downloaded the file and saved it to my desktop, but I'll be damned if I can find the option in any of my startup menus to use safe mode. Does anyone know where on Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 the option to use Safe Mode is? I'm stuck at this point until I can find it.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

Usually you tap the F8 button just before Windows starts. Not certain if this is true of your particular version, but to my knowledge it's been that way since '98 was released.

Google suggests corruption of a certain registry key (which can be caused specifically by Roxio software, but also by other programs) could be the culprit:

The key in question is HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\policies\Explorer, and it should have at least one value in there: HonorAutorunSetting, a dword value set to “1” (hex or decimal). If you can’t set the policy using gpedit to turn off Autorun (XP Home doesn’t appear to have the tools), then add a value of type dword named “NoDriveTypeAutoRun” with the hex value of “ff” or decimal value of “255”, which would disable autorun on all types.

Might be worth checking to see if your setup checks out. Though on my own system I see the value is labeled "NoDriveAutoRun". Hmm.

 

[Harlequin]

To start in safe mode, reboot your PC. When your bios ram check and usb device detection has completed, press the F8 key. You need to press it before the loading windows screen comes up and show you the progress indicator.

 

[Harlequin]

Funny, this is exactly the update I'm having troubles with.

That's the one Fogsbane mentioned

Looks like lots of people that had Roxio have this problem - the software created extra registry keys.

If you do not have Roxio, that means other manufacturers also had software that added these same extra keys.

 

[Connor_Graham]

It's finally fixed. After saving the file to my desktop then restarting the computer in safe mode I had to do a search of the hard drive for the file I'd saved as it didn't show up on the desktop in safe mode. Once I found the file I ran the install then restarted the computer normally. That little shield that's gotten me to the point I'd like to strangle whoever wrote this update popped up again, but thanks to some info I found on a tech site I ran the download again. It took a few seconds then a window popped up saying the download failed, which is what I was hoping for. I restarted the computer again and the update is finally gone.

Thanks all for your help! This problem just about had me pulling my hair out and contemplating actions that would end up in mandatory life imprisonment.

If anyone is having the same problem with this file (KB967715) let me know and I'll PM you the links that I got from MS.

 

[Aboo]

. . . A surge will fry the modem, though likely leave your PC unharmed. So, yes, plug in your modem to the UPS as well. Or one of those power extensions with surge protectors.

Also consider a surge protector for the phone line to your modem if you are using dialup/ADSL. Had an old 56k modem go pop during a thunderstorm, lighting hit some phone lines nearby. Phones were fine, but the surge blew out a chip/capacitor in the modem. . .

I live in Oklahoma and we are ALWAYS having t-storms. About a year ago one took out our alarm system and my cable modem. I didn't have it plugged into a power strip or my UPS. The new one is plugged into my power strip but not my UPS (stupid me!). So in order to be able to safely log while in UO if I lose power I should plug it into my UPS, correct?

My phone line isn't plugged into my computer but I do believe it is plugged into my fax/printer. Honestly can't say if it is plugged into a surge protector. Guess I will check that out tonight.

I was able to go to Microsoft and update my validation tool and then update my windows manually. It all appeared to work fine and I didn't get the message when I shut down last night that I needed to update. Thanks to everyone who provided such great help here!

 

[Harlequin]

Good to hear both of you managed to get it fixed

Aboo: You are correct, to maintain power to the modem so that you don't get disconnected abruptly, plug it into the UPS.

 

[Aboo]

Good to hear both of you managed to get it fixed

Aboo: You are correct, to maintain power to the modem so that you don't get disconnected abruptly, plug it into the UPS.

Thank you for all your help, you're a sweetie!

 

[Dor of Sonoma]

"A surge will fry the modem, though likely leave your PC unharmed. So, yes, plug in your modem to the UPS as well. Or one of those power extensions with surge protectors."

What's a UPS? Reading through this thread, it seems to be something other than a power strip with surge protection. I saw...batteries...mentioned?

 

[Nok]

What's a UPS? Reading through this thread, it seems to be something other than a power strip with surge protection. I saw...batteries...mentioned?

Yes, a battery backup system.

 

[Aboo]

"A surge will fry the modem, though likely leave your PC unharmed. So, yes, plug in your modem to the UPS as well. Or one of those power extensions with surge protectors."

What's a UPS? Reading through this thread, it seems to be something other than a power strip with surge protection. I saw...batteries...mentioned?

Uninterruptible power supply/source.