Do You Want A Classic Shard??

[Vyal]

If its just me and about 200 other people making STARBUCKS bags and bags of money and 199 of those other people demanded some sort of new coffee but "STARBUCKS" just went on ignored everyone BUT did eventually come out with new coffee but wait it isn't new coffee it isn't even coffee at all they are just trying to shove it down your mouth and call it coffee..

Your logic makes no sense. You think paying 14 bucks a month is the fee just cause? Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr nah man nah. It is what they steal from you to pay their own bills dude.

at one point UO was a AWSOME game but it isn't anymore WOW GET HE HELL OVER IT, the game sucks, the staff sucks, there will forever never be a classic shard server hosted by EA..

Screw EA.

Thats it man end this thread its gone on to long about something that will never happen as long as EA owns UO.

 

[Surgeries]

This from the person posting pictures of their map and CD??

I have the same map, and same CD at home. Not impressed.

And as to your being born in 1957...

...that's wonderful for you.

It's a shame you have to come into this thread and act like a 3 year old. But I recognize your tactic. You will not provoke me into trading personal insults with you in some attempt to get this thread locked.

No thanks...not buying.

I'm acting like a three year old? OK...I guess you are entitled to your opinion, indeed, as am I.

You know why I put that picture up. I am not trying to impress you. At all. Don't care what you think about me. Not important.

What is important is that you don't get to strut around telling me that you were likely paying your money for UO since I was in Grade School. *HUFF and PUFF*. Nope...you don't get to do that...and that was what I was rebutting.

And quite handily, I might add.

You forgot you said that? Hmmm...

That was what prompted the picture. Nothing else.

As to the Personal Attacks...telling someone they are "acting like a three year old" is a great start.

Oh well...back to the show...

 

[Masacre]

Ok the people voting no. GTFO.
Why? This doesn't apply to you, if you dont' want to play it don't. It's simple as that. No one is forcing you to create a char and play it.

Secondly, this is one shard. We are not asking you to turn all shards back into the old rule set. So why do you care if this isn't applying to you?

It wouldn't take as much work as you think.

This thread is pointless now and dead due to all the no votes. I'm really confused why you should vote no to ruin it for us when it will never apply to you guys. Seriously?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Ok the people voting no. GTFO.
Why? This doesn't apply to you, if you dont' want to play it don't. It's simple as that. No one is forcing you to create a char and play it.

Secondly, this is one shard. We are not asking you to turn all shards back into the old rule set. So why do you care if this isn't applying to you?

It wouldn't take as much work as you think.

This thread is pointless now and dead due to all the no votes. I'm really confused why you should vote no to ruin it for us when it will never apply to you guys. Seriously?

I don't think the thread is dead because of the no votes. The no voters have a right to their own opinions. And to be fair, the original question asked was "Do you want a Classic Shard?" when it should have been "Would you object to a Classic Shard being created, even if you would not play on it?"

From some of the no voter posts I have read, I get the impression that they would not mind if there was classic shard, just that they would not be interested in playing on it. Which is fine. I would not want EA/Mythic to force current UO players to into a play style they would not enjoy...the way OSI did to those of us that enjoyed the classic style.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

What is important is that you don't get to strut around telling me that you were likely paying your money for UO since I was in Grade School. *HUFF and PUFF*. Nope...you don't get to do that...

I can...but I won't.

I have no way of knowing your UO history, or your age, I was merely basing my statement upon your actions and your attitude.

But, for what it is worth, I apologize for any offense...although I doubt I will get any such courtesy from you.

That's cool though...I am still going to keeping posting about wanting a classic shard.

 

[Masacre]

I don't think the thread is dead because of the no votes. The no voters have a right to their own opinions. And to be fair, the original question asked was "Do you want a Classic Shard?" when it should have been "Would you object to a Classic Shard being created, even if you would not play on it?"

From some of the no voter posts I have read, I get the impression that they would not mind if there was classic shard, just that they would not be interested in playing on it. Which is fine. I would not want EA/Mythic to force current UO players to into a play style they would not enjoy...the way OSI did to those of us that enjoyed the classic style.

Yes you are right, as you said then this poll needs to be fixed, it is clearly stating Would you like a Pre-AoS or earlier client shard? Or do you object to one? The No answer needs to be adjusted to "I would NOT care if one was added, but not intrested in playing."

 

[Lord Patapon]

Well ... yeah, but to be even more precise than that, then, we should make polls about a lot of stuff then, if we want to be precise (as far as we can be, being on a board that most UO players don't read).

Who doesn't want a Classic T2A Shard ? Who doesn't want a Tram T2A shard ?
But then, what's a Classic Tram shard ? The Tram people, I am sure, have a lot to remember about that era; Taming was a selling business ... ever heard buying plain horses at WBB ? or drags ? or even drakes ? remember having an ingot coloured armor without spending thousands of hundreds for a hue or being stuck with a useless armor ? remember the PvM challenge and the benefits you could get out of a crawl at Ophidian's Lair or Terathan Keep ?
PvM was fun, and consensual PvP can be too, and so Tram based players have their share in the discussions.

I'm all for Classic shard, wether they're Tram or Fell; Tram people had great fun too, pre-AoS.
But what now ? Do they want it ?
We should make polls about a Tram and a Fell based Classic servers, and that's it.
And each player who feels concerned about the discussion and the way community wants their own shard built should give their opinion, and, for each shard, build a minimum of things that everyone agree with.

At least, this could give the DevTeam a slight idea of the main orientation this plan should go, even if the mass mail poll seems to be the best way.
Once we got this "minimum agreement", they'll know what to do.

OH ! And I'm sorry to use that argument, but PvP/PvM shard (Fell/Tram) choice is now common in most new MMORPGs.

Making a classic shard is not holding UO back; forcing two playstyles to live on the same shard is. Leave mixed servers as they are, I like them and a lot of people are, too, but add one or two shards with "forced" playstyles; this can't hurt much, and can make people happy on both sides.

 

[Surgeries]

I can...but I won't.

I have no way of knowing your UO history, or your age, I was merely basing my statement upon your actions and your attitude.

But, for what it is worth, I apologize for any offense...although I doubt I will get any such courtesy from you.

That's cool though...I am still going to keeping posting about wanting a classic shard.

Fair enough.

Since I made no assumptions about your age, or how long you have played UO, then I won't be apologizing for that.

I do think you are full of yourself, and you think I am a pompous, self righteous air bag.

Let's put all that aside, for now.

Like I said...if putting up a Classic Shard helps UO, in terms of revenue, new players, et al, I say go for it.

If EA/Mythic see the rationale in making such a move, I am sure they will do so.

If your posting about it helps EA/Mythic make a positive decision that benefits the company, then super. More power to you, for sure.

If they make such a move because of a vocal minority that are not stake holders in the process, and lose money for the company, in the process, then I say that would be a bad move, as would anyone with more than a small modicum of objectivity.

I fully understand that you represent the "I am convinced it will work" group, and you know I am the "I am not convinced it would work" group. We will not likely agree, ever, and that's OK. I have no problem with not agreeing with you, at all.

My main contention is that after speaking with Fertbert (one of the original Devs on UO, as you are well aware) at a Meet Up, and specifically asking him about this very topic, he plainly, and without hesitation told me the exact things that you have been told all along; It would be a nightmare to go back through all of the old code, and then present a polished, and sale able product (Key Word - Sale able...to Paying Customers), while doing expansions, and then maintain 2 (or three, with Siege and Mugen in it) different sets of code for the different rule sets...you get the picture.

I am not making it up. It was a 15 minute chat. I know what I heard the guy say. I am not embellishing, or enhancing to suit my story. He said it, plain as day.

So...you can tell me all day how you just know it will work, and again, I will say that perhaps today they can do it, and make it a profitable venture, that helps keep the game alive, and gives all of the Classic Shard players a fun place to go. Maybe they can do it.

As I said earlier in this thread, here's to hoping they can figure out a profitable way to do something they haven't been able to figure out for almost a decade.

Just don't make assumptions and jump to conclusions you aren't able to back up with facts, and I will try not to do the same.

Sound fair?

 

[AesSedai]

- You remind me of a thing or three:

1. Fertbert. He and his wife are very wise, good people.
2. I have also spoken with a few devs. over the years myself, about this very subject, who have informed me that it would be very resource intensive to do a '~classic flashback'. UO does not necessarily = Daoc in this regard. Maybe things have changed recently to make it more feasible; who knows.
3. Talking face-to-face with devs. is almost always quite insightful; and I haven't met a 'bad seed' amongst them yet.
4. Objectivity - it is a great term.

(*runs off to i-seek how Fertbert's faring*)

 

[AesSedai]

^^^ - Which btw, is the primary reason why I voted no. I realize it isn't a 20 hour job for a dev. to flip the switch and create a classic shard....

Masacre & a few others that don't want to consider the other side of this coin

Which means such a shard would impact everyone currently paying / playing UO, if enacted. It is all cause and effect when resources are involved. UO is a closed loop, in that sense. Thus why some may disagree with this addition ~ they (I) am not convinced that the resources necessary to create such will benefit the healthy evolution of all of UO.

 

[OxAO]

not going to vote.

I don't want to start over again.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Thus why some may disagree with this addition ~ they (I) am not convinced that the resources necessary to create such will benefit the healthy evolution of all of UO.

But who decides what will "benefit the healthy evolution" of UO?

If I ask someone that quit because of the Fel/Tram split, do you know what they will tell me? That the evolution of UO was terrible. Do you know why? Because they were not given an option. They were forced into a playstyle they didn't want...so they quit.

If I ask someone that quit because of AoS, do you know what they are going to tell me? That the evolution of UO sucks. Do you know why? Because they were not given an option. They were forced into a playstyle they didn't want...so they quit.

What about the opinions of those former UO players, and the current ones...like myself and many of the players that voted Yes in this poll...that have put up with the neon colors, and put up with the loss of community, and put up with the playstyle that we did not want, so that you, the people that prefer it, could have it?

Now that we want something, it is "it would take too many resources".

How many resources did OSI expend turning Ultima Online into an item based game with no community??

How many resources did EA spend building expansions that served only to drive away old players, and dilute the playerbase that inhabits our world?

How many resources did it take to create not one, but two, terrible clients that we, the original players of UO, didn't want, or use?

Right now, EA/Mythic is expending the resources that they have available to them to bring you what?

- Even more overpowered items in the form of imbuing.
- Even more landmass. As if we see anyone in the original landmass anymore.
- Another client, based on a client that failed.
- No marketing to attract new players.
- No solution for rampant cheating and duping.

Are they using the resources, the resources that you and I pay for, properly??

It doesn't sound like it to me.

 

[red sky]

You send a shiver down my spine when you talk like that Morgana.

 

[AesSedai]

- Morgana, et al, I'm just telling it like I've heard before & have thought & still agree that it logically is, at this time.

Once again, I'd be all for every new shard possible (the gem was fractured into quite a few, iirc), as long as it is feasible to do.
If the forecasted return does not make the initial investment worthwhile then it is not feasible at this time, by my thinking.
Objectivity

 

[Heartseeker]

Well said Morgana.

Three cheers to the Queen of Sosaria.

 

[Amren]

But who decides what will "benefit the healthy evolution" of UO?

If I ask someone that quit because of the Fel/Tram split, do you know what they will tell me? That the evolution of UO was terrible. Do you know why? Because they were not given an option. They were forced into a playstyle they didn't want...so they quit.

If I ask someone that quit because of AoS, do you know what they are going to tell me? That the evolution of UO sucks. Do you know why? Because they were not given an option. They were forced into a playstyle they didn't want...so they quit.

What about the opinions of those former UO players, and the current ones...like myself and many of the players that voted Yes in this poll...that have put up with the neon colors, and put up with the loss of community, and put up with the playstyle that we did not want, so that you, the people that prefer it, could have it?

Now that we want something, it is "it would take too many resources".

How many resources did OSI expend turning Ultima Online into an item based game with no community??

How many resources did EA spend building expansions that served only to drive away old players, and dilute the playerbase that inhabits our world?

How many resources did it take to create not one, but two, terrible clients that we, the original players of UO, didn't want, or use?

Right now, EA/Mythic is expending the resources that they have available to them to bring you what?

- Even more overpowered items in the form of imbuing.
- Even more landmass. As if we see anyone in the original landmass anymore.
- Another client, based on a client that failed.
- No marketing to attract new players.
- No solution for rampant cheating and duping.

Are they using the resources, the resources that you and I pay for, properly??

It doesn't sound like it to me.

QFT

 

[HD2300]

Right now, EA/Mythic is expending the resources that they have available to them to bring you what?

I believe if EA get the Warhammer Online team to customise the WAR client to create a real 3D client for UO that wont work with freeshards, and then release Tram only and PvP only shards, UO would be in an extremely strong position.

UO's decline is not because of itemisation. It is really the lack of new content that is the problem. If there was a new kickarse event every month, there would be more subscribers now. When nothing new happens for long periods, people move on.

 

[Amren]

I believe if EA get the Warhammer Online team to customise the WAR client to create a real 3D client for UO that wont work with freeshards, and then release Tram only and PvP only shards, UO would be in an extremely strong position.

Sorry.

Server emulation will always exist. EA could come out with UO2 tomorrow and ir could take months or years but eventually someone would figure out how to emulate it.

A new client may break the connection to the existing free servers but I'm positive modifications could be made to allow existing or new clients to work.

 

[Amren]

just wondering

 

[RichDC]

You wont get it, look at the poll.

Unless a MAJORITY call for it they wont do anything...they probs wont even look into the post about guildstones even though there is an 88%majority calling for them back!!!

 

[Beefcake101]

Not going to happen. Why keep bringing it up? Why keep beating a dead horse? I would like a classic also before all the items but i know when it is time to stop.

 

[Valas]

Id love a classic server but really it wont happen, the player base is already in decline introducing another shard wont help that.

 

[Sarsmi]

1. The people who would want to play a "classic" shard would be fragmented by their own ideas of what they would want (me included), what their idea of "classic" is.

2. It would take a massive amount of coding to roll back time. There is not some circa 99 version of UO code sitting out there that they just have to plug into a server.

3. It would take even more coding to implement the nice things we have gotten used to having.

It's just not gonna happen.

 

[HD2300]

You wont get it, look at the poll.

Unless a MAJORITY call for it they wont do anything...they probs wont even look into the post about guildstones even though there is an 88%majority calling for them back!!!

... maybe if the guildstones were sold through uogamecodes.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

It's just not gonna happen.

I once thought like that...so I didn't even bother to post on Stratics. I figured, what difference can I make? I am just (was just) some 17 year old girl playing a video game on her PC. No one wanted to hear what I had to say (probably still don't). But 11 years have gone by, and I am now a woman. And I will be damned if I am going to just sit by anymore and watch something that has been a part of my life for almost half of it be ruined any longer.

People here can laugh at me, they can call me names, whatever...I don't care!

I have remained loyal to UO since the very beginning, and I cannot see how this would be so difficult that they would refuse to do it!

It is our UO! Because without US, there is no UO!

 

[Sarsmi]

It's just not gonna happen.

I once thought like that...so I didn't even bother to post on Stratics. I figured, what difference can I make? I am just (was just) some 17 year old girl playing a video game on her PC. No one wanted to hear what I had to say (probably still don't). But 11 years have gone by, and I am now a woman. And I will be damned if I am going to just sit by anymore and watch something that has been a part of my life for almost half of it be ruined any longer.

People here can laugh at me, they can call me names, whatever...I don't care!

I have remained loyal to UO since the very beginning, and I cannot see how this would be so difficult that they would refuse to do it!

It is our UO! Because without US, there is no UO!

Maybe when you are a few years older, you will feel more pragmatic and less entitled, just because you want something.

I'm not slamming you, just saying that really really really really wanting something to be a certain way is not going to make it happen. That is what *I* have learned, as I've gotten older. There are things that I want to happen in UO, and I do what I can to present my case to the devs and try to make them look feasible/easy to do/useful to more players than just me.

Even running polls that show the majority of the playerbase (well, those that bothered to vote anyways) want something does not promote a cause like being feasible does.

Creating a whole new "classic" shard (after defining exactly what that is and no doubt ticking off at least 1/4 of the people who actually want something different) is a huge undertaking, and the return on a man power investment is probably not justifiable.

A better, far more lucrative route for EA/Mythic to take regarding classic shards would be to legalize and regulate player run shards by selling them the rights to operate UO freeshard servers, while collecting revenue (and getting the legal rights to some of the great ideas that player run shards have spawned). Now the opportunity is created for there to be dozens of "classic" game servers of different ages and ideas, and EA makes money without having to hardly do anything at all.

It's a pipe dream though, EA is typically too conservative to get enmeshed in anything that the legal department might have conniptions over.

 

[Surgeries]

1. The people who would want to play a "classic" shard would be fragmented by their own ideas of what they would want (me included), what their idea of "classic" is.

2. It would take a massive amount of coding to roll back time. There is not some circa 99 version of UO code sitting out there that they just have to plug into a server.

3. It would take even more coding to implement the nice things we have gotten used to having.

It's just not gonna happen.

QFT

Sarsmi...to be as succinct.

Nicely Said.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

A better, far more lucrative route for EA/Mythic to take regarding classic shards would be to legalize and regulate player run shards by selling them the rights to operate UO freeshard servers, while collecting revenue (and getting the legal rights to some of the great ideas that player run shards have spawned). Now the opportunity is created for there to be dozens of "classic" game servers of different ages and ideas, and EA makes money without having to hardly do anything at all.

It's a pipe dream though, EA is typically too conservative to get enmeshed in anything that the legal department might have conniptions over.

I would not be in favor of that practice. Not because I wouldn't like seeing all the different varieties of shards or anything, that would be rather interesting...but because it would dilute the playerbase much more than adding a single shard would.

But to say EA would not do this...don't be so certain. Look at games like Battlefield 2 and Battlefield 2142, where players can rent servers and administrate them however they see fit. There are literally thousands of people that populate those servers, but most players hop from one to another. But FPS games like that are not the same as something persistent like UO.

I think that opening up something like this would actually be more of a detriment to UO than it would be an asset.

 

[Amren]

I don't know why people think it would take a lot of dev time and resources to create and manage a classic server.

If the code from between 1997 and 1998 exists, I don't see how it would take a lot of effort to get that onto a server. The beautiful thing is, it would never need to be changed in any way. So in a way it would take less dev time because they would not have to make expansions or modify other code that we don't want or need.

I already posted my feelings on the poll. If UO had 120k people (not active accounts) then this poll would make up 0.04% of the total population. That is why we need to get our friends to post and vote here.

 

[Tina Small]

I'm curious and hope some of you that voted in favor of a classic shard will humor me a bit.

If you somehow got your wish and EA created a "classic shard" or two, what kind of characters would you make initially and what roles would they play? What would you spend your playing time doing in the first month? What would you hope to be doing in-game after six months and after a year? Who would you personally reach out to and ask them to come join you in playing on the classic shard?

 

[deadite]

I think a common misconception of people who want classic shards is that they thought the way it used to be was PERFECT.

Not so. I think there is just a group of people who know what ULTIMA is and it has pained us to watch UO stray from that for 11 years. Ninjas. Elves. Neon. Giant Rideable Beetles. Etc. These things just do not belong in Ultima. If you disagree with that, go back and play Ultimas 4-9 (Garriott has said several times that 1-3 are not canon - Ultima 2 had ray guns for crying out loud).

A reality-based fantasy set in an early renaissance era, complete with a virtual economy and virtual ecology. Does that sound like UO anymore? Entirely too much generic, cliche fantasy crap has been added over the past decade.

 

[Kaleb]

I think a common misconception of people who want classic shards is that they thought the way it used to be was PERFECT.

For UO it was Perfect, some bugs/tram but for the most part it was. You didnt have to work spawns for countless hours just to be able to compete, GM gear was just as viable in combat as vanq weaps, INV armor. PvM had some challenge to it you couldnt just hit a lichlord or a dragon 1-3x and be done with it. You didnt need A advanced math degree to put a suit together, Items broke almost as fast as they came in, Crafters were viable for every thing they could make,no insurance. People could dress how they wanted and it didnt hurt combat (where today almost everyone looks pretty much the same except for colors), NO NEON!!

 

[deadite]

Yeah, and if UO had continued moving forward with it's original design intact, then there probably wouldn't be so much moaning for a classic shard. If they had expanded on the things that already made UO great instead of adding a bunch of cliche fantasy crap and turning the game into a glorified item hunt, then it would be different today.

What I'm saying is... it's not really the "time period", it's the "philosophy."

I'm okay with a game evolving. I just wish UO had evolved more consistently.

EDIT: And something can't be "mostly perfect"... either it's perfect or it's not.

 

[Tina Small]

I'm curious and hope some of you that voted in favor of a classic shard will humor me a bit.

If you somehow got your wish and EA created a "classic shard" or two, what kind of characters would you make initially and what roles would they play? What would you spend your playing time doing in the first month? What would you hope to be doing in-game after six months and after a year? Who would you personally reach out to and ask them to come join you in playing on the classic shard?

I posted the above questions yesterday. But so far not one of the almost 150 people who have voted in favor of EA creating a classic shard has bothered to reply. Does this mean none of you has a good idea of what you're actually gonna do if you get your wish? Don't tell me you all plan to be PKers but are afraid to admit it?!! Or do you see threads on this topic and are only capable of repeating the same drivel you've posted over and over and over every week for the last umpteen years?

Come on, folks!! Tell us what you really plan to do if you get your wish! If you want part of the subscription fees I pay (and with 10+ active accounts, I am paying a lot of fees) to be used for this project, you could at least attempt to come up with something NEW and ORIGINAL to say in these threads when you see someone trying to give you an opportunity to demonstrate that what you want is actually a good idea.

If I don't see anyone post something soon that looks like they actually gave the questions and their answers some thought for more than about 10 seconds, I'm going to be forced to conclude that what you all want is a shard full of chest-thumpers and it's gonna last all of about two months before EA shuts it down.



*Walks away, listening intently for the faint sounds of classic shardites attempting to nudge their brains out of the ruts and crevices of posting the same old tired arguments for the last seven years.*

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I'm curious and hope some of you that voted in favor of a classic shard will humor me a bit.

If you somehow got your wish and EA created a "classic shard" or two, what kind of characters would you make initially and what roles would they play? What would you spend your playing time doing in the first month? What would you hope to be doing in-game after six months and after a year? Who would you personally reach out to and ask them to come join you in playing on the classic shard?

I'll play!!

What kind of characters would I make? The same thing I made when UO was new. My main would still be Morgana LeFay - Mage/Tamer

What roles would I play? The same roles I played when UO was new. I would work to establish an anti-PK guild, called the Protectors of Virtue, that would protect the innocent.

What would I spend the first month doing? Taming, and taming, and taming, and taming, and taming (maybe this wasn't such a good idea after all?)

What would I hope to be doing six months to a year? Leading my guild, pretty much exactly what I was doing before OSI destroyed the old UO with the Tram/Fel split.

Who would I recruit? Anyone that wanted to see what Ultima Online was like before the Ultima part really didn't matter so much.


For me, it is not about doing anything differently, I was really happy doing what I was doing in UO up until April 3, 2000. After that, it has been a slow decline, with AoS and ML being a bottoming out.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Ok the people voting no. GTFO.
Why? This doesn't apply to you, if you dont' want to play it don't. It's simple as that. No one is forcing you to create a char and play it.

Secondly, this is one shard. We are not asking you to turn all shards back into the old rule set. So why do you care if this isn't applying to you?

It wouldn't take as much work as you think.

This thread is pointless now and dead due to all the no votes. I'm really confused why you should vote no to ruin it for us when it will never apply to you guys. Seriously?

This was the funniest post I've seen in a long time...I can't believe I stayed away from this miserable thread for so long. Thanks for the light-hearted spoof.

-Galen's player

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I can't believe I stayed away from this miserable thread for so long.

Glad to know you value the opinions of your fellow players so highly.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

It's just not gonna happen.

Sadly I think it will....If it wasn't going to, Draconi wouldn't have chimed in a few months ago with what he wanted a Classic Shard to be.

For him to give the idea that much credence, I think, means it's more likely than any of us are giving credit for.

It'll happen...It'll look really active for a couple of months...Then the whining will start...If they pick a time before two-handed weapons couldn't be used with potions, people will whine about that, for example. If they pick a time before the Healing skill was implemented. If they pick a time when the zero-damage spell bug was "fixed" (which it never really was, I don't think, just AoS put in an entirely new damage system). If they pick a time before The Second Age. Or after it. Or if they do immediately pre-AoS, which I'm repeatedly told is the "common thread" in classic shard requests...Well, you can judge the reaction to that by one of the biggest supporters of the "classic" shard referring to any post-Trammel "classic" shard as "crap."

It'll happen though. I'm 80% or more sure it will, and after it does I'm 85% or more sure it'll be a disaster after a few months. Money wasted, time wasted, the game endangered to satisfy message board posters who are excellent at erecting the facade of a consensus, on top of a house of cards.

Will a Classic Shard kill the game? I doubt it. With an owner as irrational as Electronic Arts, anything could or could not kill it at any time. But we'll be a laughing stock.

After it happens, if I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it, especially if it's a net positive instead of it being neutral.

But given the claims you all have made, this shard has to be successful in terms of numbers, and community. Further, there have to be no calls whatsoever to fix or change things, or to have content that other shards have. There also can't be calls for another Classic Shard with another rules set or set in a different time period in UO.

Unrealistic? Quite. But that's almost exactly what you have all been saying will happen. So, after the shard is made (which I think it will), that's what you all are going to have to live up to.

-Galen's player

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

But given the claims you all have made, this shard has to be successful in terms of numbers, and community. Further, there have to be no calls whatsoever to fix or change things, or to have content that other shards have. There also can't be calls for another Classic Shard with another rules set or set in a different time period in UO.

Glad to know you have decided that you get to make these decisions.

I still do not understand why you feel so threatened by the existence of a shard that does not cater to your specific playstyle.

 

[HD2300]

It'll happen...It'll look really active for a couple of months...Then the whining will start...

It'll happen though. I'm 80% or more sure it will, and after it does I'm 85% or more sure it'll be a disaster after a few months. Money wasted, time wasted, the game endangered to satisfy message board posters who are excellent at erecting the facade of a consensus, on top of a house of cards.

There is the wolves and sheep theory which applies to PvP MMORPGs. People will not pay to be sheep [which obviously does not apply to freeshards because users do not pay]. You have seen it recently with AoC and WAR, both with huge initial subscriptions and are now tanking. Seige is the least populated shard, and Darkfall looks like it is going to be an epic fail. In contrast look at the ongoing success of WOW. Its focus is on PvE and is still gaining subscriptions.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

There is the wolves and sheep theory which applies to PvP MMORPGs. People will not pay to be sheep [which obviously does not apply to freeshards because users do not pay]. You have seen it recently with AoC and WAR, both with huge initial subscriptions and are now tanking. Seige is the least populated shard, and Darkfall looks like it is going to be an epic fail. In contrast look at the ongoing success of WOW. Its focus is on PvE and is still gaining subscriptions.

Yep!

He is right. 100%!

And that is why EA/Mythic should not convert the current shards to a classic ruleset. They just should not do it! I agree with that.


But...


...what about those of us that actually enjoyed an open PvP playstyle? What about the players that enjoyed a game where death was around every turn, and we were not safe and sound in Trammel?

You know, I really, really, hate the terms Trammy, Care Bears, etc. Because I feel that those terms are incredibly hypocritical, because it was the very actions of those that use those terms that led to the creation of Trammel in the first place.

When I was young, my father would take me hunting...and one of the most important lessons I learned, is that you can only hunt game for so long before it either becomes extinct, or moves on to another area.

But I have started to gain a new appreciation for those terms while reading the responses to this thread. How hypocritical is it of those that would seek to prevent a classic shard from being developed to cry foul over the request for one single shard, while all of the other shards remain a Trammel dominant ruleset?!

You sit in your 18x18 houses, with your roof top gardens, wearing your neon dyed artifacts, and you scoff at those that want something different! How are you any different than those that preyed upon the innocent when UO was young?! You are preying upon those that do not share your idea of what UO should be.

How, you might ask, am I preying on these people?

Because in resisting this idea, you are causing these players that pay their subscription fees, just like you do, to play in a world where they are not fulfilled.

Ask yourself this question:

How would the existence of a classic shard negatively affect me?

Be honest with yourself. What exactly about the existence of a classic shard would affect you so greatly that you would make a stand against it?

Would you no longer be able to run Doom, and collect artifacts?

Would you no longer be able to participate in champ spawns, to get your precious powerscrolls?? Hell, the creation of a classic shard might actually make it easier for you to do this!

Would you lose your house that you have spent years collecting items for?

Would you lose the millions and millions of gold that you have horded over the years??

The answer to all of these questions...is NO! Your UO life would go on exactly has it has since April 3, 2000...or the day you joined since then.

But what about us? What about the players that watched our world be destroyed on that day?? Those of us that remain, or those of us that would return, don't we deserve the same thing that you have?? Don't we deserve a chance to have our UO lives continue the way we wanted them to?

It seems to me that many of the people making a stand against this idea are being incredibly selfish...but why? I still do not understand the threat that this idea presents to you. I still do not understand why you feel it necessary to enforce your playstyle upon those that do not want it.

I have heard the objections, but it all comes across as a smoke screen to me. A smoke screen of fear.

Are you that concerned that the population of your shard will discover that UO actually was better in the past?? Are you concerned that you will have no one to show off your artifacts to anymore?

Explain it to me.

I am not buying the resources argument any more, because I do not think that creating a classic shard would take that many resources, and it certainly would not cause any subscriptions to be canceled. It can only benefit EA/Mythic, because it can only attract players that feel disenfranchised by the current UO rulesets.

So ask yourself the hard question. Why are you really against this? What makes you fear this idea so much, that you would even bother to resist it?

I would hope that the group of players that once felt so strongly about having Trammel added to the game, because they wanted a different playstyle than what existed, can take the time to look inward, and understand that we are only asking for the exact same thing...only on a much, much, smaller scale...and we are not asking to force you to change your playstyle, the way you did to us.

 

[HD2300]

How would the existence of a classic shard negatively affect everyone?

We have already seen that when EA diverts resources to other projects like KR for long periods and does not provide new content many people leave the game. It has been posted that a former UO developer has said that a classic shard by would require significant resources to create and would also require ongoing resources.

So where is all the money coming from to pay for the required extra developers and testers or will there just be no new content whilst the classic shard is being developed and whenever it requires ongoing development? If you can make the case where EA is guaranteed $$$ per year, at least enough to pay the salaries of the additional developers and testers required to develop and maintain a classic shard, I have no objection. But so far you havent.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

So where is all the money coming from to pay for the required extra developers and testers or will there just be no new content whilst the classic shard is being developed and whenever it requires ongoing development? If you can make the case where EA is guaranteed $$$ per year, at least enough to pay the salaries of the additional developers and testers required to develop and maintain a classic shard, I have no objection. But so far you havent.

Like I said above...I am simply not buying the resources argument anymore.

You fans of current item-based Trammel intensive UO have been on the receiving end for 9 years, while we, the classic community have gotten the shaft.

My advice...

Suck it up and deal for once, you selfish bastage.

 

[AesSedai]

- You really shouldn't give up on the 'resources argument' if you want to gather more EA/Mythic support for this proposal.
Time/Money ~ resources are an all too real factor in what you are striving for.
You shouldn't discount a real element just because you are convinced that it is irrelevant; if only for the sake of trying to win a debate, or to have what you want come to be.

As I believe I've said a few times in this thread:
Magically take away the need for resources (~ so that the implementation of a pre:x shard doesn't further hinder the continued evolution of what currently is & can be) and I'd be quite happy to see as many shard variations as people can conjure.

Something else perhaps worth considering:
I'm willing to bet I'm not alone when I feel that UO announcing some sort of retro shards were coming, at least at this point in time, would be tantamount to 'jumping the shark'.
Maybe if they announced it in a year or two when UO rides a significant upswing with what already is... But at this point I would consider it exactly like what the Fonz creators invoked by 'jumping the shark'. Eyyy!



(I do find it amusing that you have declared some people against this are being incredibly selfish and even guilty of enforcing their playstyle on you... when that is exactly why pre-Trammel UO hemorrhaged so many accounts in the first place & why the, minimal resource requiring, quick-fix of Trammel/Felucca ever came to be. Like the sheep / wolf analogy you commented on... and your fathers advice too... pre:tram the sheep were being hunted to extinction unless they joined a sizable herd or started to morph into a wolf ~aka~ UO playstyles were becoming more limited, enforced, and forcing a noticable amount of people to lose interest & simply quit. As a result the classic shards were obviously failing, as evidenced by Trammel, to keep enough of the population in one place ~ in UO. If everybody became wolves who would provide the wool? Not enough people were willing to pay to police the system with the tools provided. Thus the wolves forced UO to evolve in some manner, or die. In a very real way, the hunters forced pre:Trammel into extinction on primary shards.)

 

[Kaleb]

I posted the above questions yesterday. But so far not one of the almost 150 people who have voted in favor of EA creating a classic shard has bothered to reply. Does this mean none of you has a good idea of what you're actually gonna do if you get your wish? Don't tell me you all plan to be PKers but are afraid to admit it?!! Or do you see threads on this topic and are only capable of repeating the same drivel you've posted over and over and over every week for the last umpteen years?

Come on, folks!! Tell us what you really plan to do if you get your wish! If you want part of the subscription fees I pay (and with 10+ active accounts, I am paying a lot of fees) to be used for this project, you could at least attempt to come up with something NEW and ORIGINAL to say in these threads when you see someone trying to give you an opportunity to demonstrate that what you want is actually a good idea.


If I don't see anyone post something soon that looks like they actually gave the questions and their answers some thought for more than about 10 seconds, I'm going to be forced to conclude that what you all want is a shard full of chest-thumpers and it's gonna last all of about two months before EA shuts it down.



*Walks away, listening intently for the faint sounds of classic shardites attempting to nudge their brains out of the ruts and crevices of posting the same old tired arguments for the last seven years.*

I would make a tamer or PvM template to support my other characters. Most of my if not all my characters would be some sort of mage temp.

 

[Kaleb]

- You really shouldn't give up on the 'resources argument' if you want to gather more EA/Mythic support for this proposal.
Time/Money ~ resources are an all too real factor in what you are striving for.
You shouldn't discount a real element just because you are convinced that it is irrelevant; if only for the sake of trying to win a debate, or to have what you want come to be.

As I believe I've said a few times in this thread:
Magically take away the need for resources (~ so that the implementation of a pre:x shard doesn't further hinder the continued evolution of what currently is & can be) and I'd be quite happy to see as many shard variations as people can conjure.

Something else perhaps worth considering:
I'm willing to bet I'm not alone when I feel that UO announcing some sort of retro shards were coming, at least at this point in time, would be tantamount to 'jumping the shark'.
Maybe if they announced it in a year or two when UO rides a significant upswing with what already is... But at this point I would consider it exactly like what the Fonz creators invoked by 'jumping the shark'. Eyyy!



(I do find it amusing that you have declared some people against this are being incredibly selfish and even guilty of enforcing their playstyle on you... when that is exactly why pre-Trammel UO hemorrhaged so many accounts in the first place & why the, minimal resource requiring, quick-fix of Trammel/Felucca ever came to be. Like the sheep / wolf analogy you commented on... and your fathers advice too... pre:tram the sheep were being hunted to extinction unless they joined a sizable herd or started to morph into a wolf ~aka~ UO playstyles were becoming more limited, enforced, and forcing a noticable amount of people to lose interest & simply quit. As a result the classic shards were obviously failing, as evidenced by Trammel, to keep enough of the population in one place ~ in UO. If everybody became wolves who would provide the wool? Not enough people were willing to pay to police the system with the tools provided. Thus the wolves forced UO to evolve in some manner, or die. In a very real way, the hunters forced pre:Trammel into extinction on primary shards.)

And by your reasonings might as well watch the people fade away. I mean its not like people are flooding the servers these days. Its my honest opinion that too many people like you hold this game back from offering something to everyone.

 

[AesSedai]

- Maybe you're right.

As I believe I've said a few times in this thread:
Magically take away the need for resources (~ so that the implementation of a pre:x shard doesn't further hinder the continued evolution of what currently is & can be) and I'd be quite happy to see as many shard variations as people can conjure.

Maybe if they announced it in a year or two when UO rides a significant upswing with what already is... But at this point I would consider it exactly like what the Fonz creators invoked by 'jumping the shark'. Eyyy!

 

[Kaleb]

There is the wolves and sheep theory which applies to PvP MMORPGs. People will not pay to be sheep [which obviously does not apply to freeshards because users do not pay].

There are plenty of tram only servers and current style UO servers, The "classic" UO (UO:R, Fel rules only) IS most populated.

You have seen it recently with AoC and WAR, both with huge initial subscriptions and are now tanking.

Those games are not very fun plus they are just WoW ripoffs.

Seige is the least populated shard, and Darkfall looks like it is going to be an epic fail.

Siege was more populated then over half the servers before aos it wasnt until after its population slid. Darkfall is still to buggy atm but once its fixed it will start to flow.

In contrast look at the ongoing success of WOW. Its focus is on PvE and is still gaining subscriptions.

Too bad blizzard only counts accounts created not active. 100's of gold sellers prob get banned a few times a day. And you fail if you compare WoW to UO, even it has PvP servers silly wabbit.

To clear this up a "classic"server is not a pvp server. Just because its a Fel only ruleset dosnt make it a pvp server I prefer to hunt under those rules makes the game feel challenging, Im a smart person I dont need easy mode. Tho I clearly pointed out for every fel version created a tram one will have to be made.

 

[Kaleb]

- Maybe you're right.

As I believe I've said a few times in this thread:
Magically take away the need for resources (~ so that the implementation of a pre:x shard doesn't further hinder the continued evolution of what currently is & can be) and I'd be quite happy to see as many shard variations as people can conjure.

Maybe if they announced it in a year or two when UO rides a significant upswing with what already is... But at this point I would consider it exactly like what the Fonz creators invoked by 'jumping the shark'. Eyyy!

I know I am.

Considering some armchair dev can make one "from their basement from his/her own pocket" and have it run better then EA's past version. Wouldnt/shouldnt The "PROS" be able to do it faster and less manpower? If not EA better do some hireing.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I'm willing to bet I'm not alone when I feel that UO announcing some sort of retro shards were coming, at least at this point in time, would be tantamount to 'jumping the shark'.

Funny you should mention that...because I told several people, as UO:R launched that UO was jumping the proverbial Shark.

Do you remember happened to Happy Days after the shark was jumped?

The viewership declined...rapidly.

Take a look at what has happened to UO since that shark was jumped.

Players---approx 250,000

Players ----

Players----

Players----

Players----

Players----approx 50,000

(I do find it amusing that you have declared some people against this are being incredibly selfish and even guilty of enforcing their playstyle on you... when that is exactly why pre-Trammel UO hemorrhaged so many accounts in the first place & why the, minimal resource requiring, quick-fix of Trammel/Felucca ever came to be. Like the sheep / wolf analogy you commented on... and your fathers advice too... pre:tram the sheep were being hunted to extinction unless they joined a sizable herd or started to morph into a wolf ~aka~ UO playstyles were becoming more limited, enforced, and forcing a noticable amount of people to lose interest & simply quit. As a result the classic shards were obviously failing, as evidenced by Trammel, to keep enough of the population in one place ~ in UO. If everybody became wolves who would provide the wool? Not enough people were willing to pay to police the system with the tools provided. Thus the wolves forced UO to evolve in some manner, or die. In a very real way, the hunters forced pre:Trammel into extinction on primary shards.)

And therein lies my argument.

The tools were never provided. They were discussed, but in the end, the switch was thrown, and we all collectively jumped the shark.

Look around you in game.

Go to Vesper.

How many people do you see in Vesper? In Tram Vesper? In Fel Vesper?


Ask yourself...did this approach work?


Is UO the leading MMO right now?

No. It never will be again.

Sure, games like WoW and EQ offered something that UO did not.

But how many EQ players are there now?

WoW will find themselves in the same position eventually, because easy is not the answer.

A realistic world, that changes based upon the actions of her players...that is the true answer.

Again...this is not about the existing shards.

Every player in UO has the option to click, or not click, the classic shard or shards at log in.

Why fight it?

Your argument lends itself to someone that is extremely fearful. Why? What is it exactly that you fear from offering a different playstyle?

If it fails...if fails. And then you, and all the other Trammel-ites, can say..."You asked for a Classic shard...you got it...it failed."

With that, we are gone. We are a footnote in UO's long history, never to be seen again. We fought the good fight, and lost. But we have no way of knowing what would happen, do we?

You can throw out supposition....you can site this and that, but just like me, you have nothing to base your point of view on besides opinion.

And that is where we differ.


The only difference is, my opinion does not impede your style of play. You are left with exactly what you started with...a broken world that is losing players.

Me...I get to go home. To a land that I loved and supported and fought for. I get to share something with my friends, and with luck, my young daughter, that I loved.

Where is the harm in that?

What have you lost?