Which Client do you use? 2D or KR

[Dermott of LS]

...

It's a damn shame KR turned out absolutely TERRIBLE instead.

And the last time you used it is when?

ALso have you even attempted to check out what has been done by the players who use KR and have been creating their own changes to the user interface (showing how flexible the KR client is by nature vs the unmoddable 2d)?

KR started quite lacking, noone will argue that. To call it "terrible" as it is now would be a statement made in ignorance based on out of date information if you have not even attempted to try it out in the past month.

 

[Littleblue]

I play 2D/Legacy exclusively.

I did download KR and burn it to disc at one point, but after the SA Client was announced, I decided to wait until all the polishing and fixing up had been done to give it a good, honest try-out.

The main thing for me is the artwork, like many have said above. Devil's Own's post with pics pretty much says what I am thinking, hehe. I enjoy the definition and detail of the original pixel art.

I will give the new SA Client a good try, though, and thoroughly search out improvements from our Modders to see if that resolves any issue I may have with it.

 

[NewThunder]

To call it "terrible" as it is now would be a statement made in ignorance based on out of date information if you have not even attempted to try it out in the past month.

I played it this morning and would deem it terrible. I think I did figure out one of the crash bugs on log in, but the work around is a pain.

 

[Gellor]

showing how flexible the KR client is by nature vs the unmoddable 2d?

I won't argue this point... yes it is flexible. But the real question is how much work should a player have to do in order to play the game? Is it EA's position of "you don't like the client, go search the internet"? That won't retain any new players.

Also, there is that nice ambitious EA rule about changing the client issue. By allowing the modding of the KR client, does this mean modding the 2d client is now legal? You know all the nice "illegal" graphic "hacks" people use for 2d that seem to show up in lots of PvP posts?

To call it "terrible" as it is now would be a statement made in ignorance based on out of date information if you have not even attempted to try it out in the past month.

I just used it Feb 28,2009... aka 2 days ago from this reply. From the "box" I still don't care for it. Some of the macro system is nice. OTOH, I like UOAssist's ability to use the mouse wheel for targeting... not available in KR.

To me, compared to the 2d client, it looks terrible. Artwork is always subjective... it is an opinion. And as of this reply, you have a 3 to 1 ratio of people who share this opinion.

 

[Old Man of UO]

I won't argue this point... yes it is flexible. But the real question is how much work should a player have to do in order to play the game? Is it EA's position of "you don't like the client, go search the internet"? That won't retain any new players.

Also, there is that nice ambitious EA rule about changing the client issue. By allowing the modding of the KR client, does this mean modding the 2d client is now legal? You know all the nice "illegal" graphic "hacks" people use for 2d that seem to show up in lots of PvP posts?
...

I agree absolutely that the original release of KR was horrible and had no polish. I challenge you to download the latest BBE mod and play it for a week solo and then give us your opinion. This latest mod is what the interface should have been. These modders are great people to have done this.

As to your next point, you are confusing coding of the mod user interface versus changing code in the actual client. Mods do NOT and can not do that by design. Not only is it allowed by EA/Mythic but it is encouraged. Most MMO games are built that way now. UO Assist in the 2D client is closer to what you are saying than the KR mods. KR mods are NOT hacks. At least get that point correct.

FYI, the modders were contacted by the design team. I am not a modder, so I don't know the details, but it is my hope that most of what we now have in the BBE mod will be the default interface in the new SA client... and yet allow for even more mods.

 

[Ifful]

I used to be a 100% 3D player - I detested the 2D client (I still do, in fact).
The 3D client had more functionality than 2D and was more visually appealling, imo.
Then, KR was announced - more functionality and better graphics than even 3D - a dream come true.

Except, of course, it didn't come true.

KR runs less smoothly now on my PC than it did back in beta. KR's grahics are awful. You can't climb a ladder inside a house. The ferret neither looks nor moves like one. The energy bolt is lobbed in an arc rather than shot straight as it should be. KR doesn't have a single problem, rather it is a collection of little problems in every single part of its compilation. As far as I'm concerned, KR does not yet merit being called a client.

So, 99% 2D for me. Where does the 1% KR come from? Well, I log in every few months, laugh sadly at the pathetic pile of crap that has replaced the only client (3D) I ever really wanted in UO, and log out.

Despite promising not to shut down existing clients until the majority of players were using KR, they nevertheless did shut down 3D. But hey, just another broken promise. What else is new, right?

 

[VorteXPete]

KR 100% the only time I played 2d was when i was forced too when 3d was canceled and kr didn't start yet....all I can say is u can have your 2d and I can have my kr.

 

[Gellor]

As to your next point, you are confusing coding of the mod user interface versus changing code in the actual client. Mods do NOT and can not do that by design. Not only is it allowed by EA/Mythic but it is encouraged. Most MMO games are built that way now. UO Assist in the 2D client is closer to what you are saying than the KR mods. KR mods are NOT hacks. At least get that point correct.

Old man, you are failing to get the point I am trying to make.

What I am talking about is not "the program that must not be named" as you seem to think I am.

I am talking about graphic changes to the 2d graphic files. They are commonly known as "stump hacks" and "field hacks".

From what I read, it is modifying one of the graphic files and replacing trees with stumps and field spells with another graphic. This is not modifying the client executable nor interfering/interacting with the client data flow.

HEre is a sample posted to stratics:

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

We can not legally mod KR in that manner either.

KR modding is done to the USER INTERFACE and ONLY the USER INTERFACE. Basically KR modding does one of 3 things:

1. Fixes bugs found in the LUA/XML UI files. This can be anything from an improper placement of UI elements (i.e. map waypoint entry lines being reversed) to making a gump actually work as intended by the client (i.e. bulletin boards, new gumps patched in like the Throbbing Heart, etc). Such bug fixes also can reduce the lag caused by the UI (such as with more full containers, and the paperdoll while in Ninja forms), or add commas to larger numbers (which KR had months before 2d thanks to modders)

2. UI mods can provide more information and repositioning of UI elements such as the extra lines of information you can set below your character's status bar or the small bar that lets you set Object Handles wihout digging into User Settings, or even the percentage of health left on mobile health bars

3. UI mods can make the game's UI look graphically different such as Fink's Nuatical design that gives the game a sea ship style of graphical look, Bitter Black which is a more modernist design, andf Legacy which uses the artwork and style of the Legacy client(s).

IN NO WAY can UI modding LEGALLY hack the ingame files to produce the "stump hack" or other hack seen inside the game window, nor to my knowledge will any member of the Exchange or anyone on the KR forum in Stratics even consider allowing even if we had the files decrypted to do so.

I can attest that when we set up the Exchange, I personally contacted Jeremy at the time and informed her and the Devs to keep an eye on the site and let us know if and when we were going beyond the line of proper UI modding and into the possibilities of exploiting. We have yet to be contacted on this issue, and while I won't say what is up with the "calling all KR modders" I will say I know what it is about... and it's NOT about exploiting.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Old man, you are failing to get the point I am trying to make.

What I am talking about is not "the program that must not be named" as you seem to think I am.

I am talking about graphic changes to the 2d graphic files. They are commonly known as "stump hacks" and "field hacks".

From what I read, it is modifying one of the graphic files and replacing trees with stumps and field spells with another graphic. This is not modifying the client executable nor interfering/interacting with the client data flow.

...

Dermott said it well. But to add, the 2D client let certain others interact in the data stream, intercepting and modifying it. Modifying the graphics files is NOT a mod. That is how the stump hack and many other known cheats work. This is NOT legal. This is NOT modding.

KR does not do this and will not let you do that. KR mods do NOT change the client in any way.

So, I don't know where you got this idea, but I've read something similar from other people who do use un-mentionable programs, and use that reasoning to justify their use. Simply... you are wrong.

 

[AesSedai]

- Does KR (eventually SA) truly disallow the ability to modify graphics?
(Hesitant 'Yay!' if so, but...)
-If so then I fear the new client will ever reach 90% of the playerbase Cheaters will stick with Legacy until they actually have more advantages by -not- cheating in SA...
So, SA makes it much more easy than cheating in Legacy has, else UO will be doomed to maintain two clients forever, unless SA draws in many more accounts than UO currently has? Hmm... time for me to ponder some more

 

[Old Man of UO]

- Does KR (eventually SA) truly disallow the ability to modify graphics?
(Hesitant 'Yay!' if so, but...)
-If so then I fear the new client will ever reach 90% of the playerbase Cheaters will stick with Legacy until they actually have more advantages by -not- cheating in SA...
So, SA makes it much more easy than cheating in Legacy has, else UO will be doomed to maintain two clients forever, unless SA draws in many more accounts than UO currently has? Hmm... time for me to ponder some more

I believe you to be correct... with a possible exception. One reason that SA was to be available to KR only was to get rid of the cheats available only in the 2D client.

However, I am wondering if the reworked 2D client for SA isn't really a completely new client based on 2D artwork.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Does KR (eventually SA) truly disallow the ability to modify graphics?

Only until the UOP files are decrypted, then it's anyone's game (although that would be how we would get use of an "Inside KR" or "Inside SA", so factor that in as well).

The graphics that are not available to modify are the actual game graphics. The only ones we can touch are the ones that are given to us in DDS format (the UI and maps, and the maps are a risk to play with due to patch failure if those files are altered)

 

[Fink]

In a nutshell: KR mods simply allow you to present, in a new way, the same data that is otherwise available to you (via KR or 2D).

I voted 90% KR. I would say 100% but once a week I use 2D to give my fish a vacation feed pellet, plus if my vendors need a restock I double-check the placement of items in 2D to maintain backward-compatibility. Once those two issues are sufficiently addressed, I'll probably only use 2D for nostalgia's sake, like my old arcade roms.

Sadly my PC sploded on the weekend, so I'm not playing either client at the moment...

I should mention I was 2D all the way up until about a month ago. The leaps & bounds the modders have made over the original "release" version of KR are just incredible. I gave it a solid week before making any decision on whether to include KR in my usual gaming session. I was conscious that having played 2D for so long, I would need some time to adjust to KR. I gave it a fair shot, loved it.

 

[Frarc]

UO 100% .... in KR .

 

[Maplestone]

I would say 100% but once a week I use 2D to give my fish a vacation feed pellet

Mourns for my poor fishies

 

[Gellor]

Modifying the graphics files is NOT a mod. That is how the stump hack and many other known cheats work. This is NOT legal. This is NOT modding.

I never claimed it was legal. What I claimed is that by EA allowing user modifications of to the graphics of the KR client turns the argument of "no user modifications" from a straight black and white argument to a very murky one.

Those graphic "cheats" are simple graphic file modifications whether you wish to admit it or not. The KR client allows you to *gasp* modify the UI graphic files.

The sole difference between the two is KR doesn't allow you to modify main game window graphics(ie no stumps or new field tiles).

KR does not do this and will not let you do that. KR mods do NOT change the client in any way.

Uh... okay... so changing the way a client looks does "not change the client in any way"

So, I don't know where you got this idea, but I've read something similar from other people who do use un-mentionable programs, and use that reasoning to justify their use. Simply... you are wrong.

Um... the modified graphics do not interact with the data sent from client program. Just like KR changes the way the UO is presented, so does the graphic "hacks" of 2d.

Personally, I do not use any of the un-mentionable programs or graphic modifications available. I'd rather die honestly(and often) than win dirty *shrugs*

As for the last comment, just because your understanding isn't correct doesn't make others wrong... but that is standard closed minded logic: "you don't agree with what I say so you are wrong".

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

You're trying to compare apples and dump trucks.

Changing the way an icon looks is a LOT different that removing ingame graphics that block the ability to click on another player (which is one of the bases of the "stump hack").

Case in point, I just changed the Virtue menu icon in the bottom right of the BB_Enhanced UI mod (well I did the graphical work and Gildar got the file working correctly)... are you REALLY trying to say that that in some way makes the "stump hack" more "murky" in terms of legality?

You're arguing about two separate portions of the game... the ingame graphics and the User Interface graphics.

Changing the way the UI looks not necessarily changes the client at all. Yes, it can make portions of the UI more intuitive (i.e. using the Codex symbol for the Virtues menu icon instead of... well... whatever the default is supposed to be), but it doesn't allow for anything you could not already do before (i.e. targetting people behind graphical obstructions).

 

[Snakeman]

2D 100% of the time & will I suppose until the end. The KR interface just stinks (imo) & the graphixs of KR, well they just are not there (Some toooooo big, some tooo small, some you don't even see).

 

[Amren]

2d

but that is not to say 2d is not without its problems.

I would like to see a bigger gameplay window and hotbars an all that

 

[SirZ]

2D 100%

 

[Syfka]

2D all the way since my first day

 

[HD2300]

Seriously what is the deal with all the KR grassroots propaganda in the last week?

It is accepted practice to get a small group of people to "alpha test" something, then get them to champion it to the rest of the community. But it is rather strange that a small group is suddenly championing a client that will supposedly be replaced soon.

 

[Der Rock]

Seriously what is the deal with all the KR grassroots propaganda in the last week?

It is accepted practice to get a small group of people to "alpha test" something, then get them to champion it to the rest of the community. But it is rather strange that a small group is suddenly championing a client that will supposedly be replaced soon.

it is not a replacing, KR/SA is more like an upgrade, i realy hope that the upgrade is like it should happen from the beginning.without the modders, KR would still be NOT playable.
it is the 2nd and last chance for mythic that UO will survival.
if it is not done right, then we will see the next wave of quitters

graphic is secondary, the main reason will be the UI and macrosystem,if the honest player cant hold up to the huge crowd of cheater, UO will blow out from the mmo world

 

[Ni-]

without the modders, KR would still be NOT playable.

Up until about a week ago I had run KR without the use of CUIs. It worked perfectly fine for me. I finally decided to try the BBE 2.4 on a whim.

I've only delved into it enough to take advantage of the text display abilities, otherwise I like the mellow background/skin it uses. The mellow background is nice because it distracts less from the game window.

Those are a couple nice features, but I'd still be able to play the game without them. I do really like the fact that this stuff can be modded, it adds something else that you can do in/with UO.

 

[Lord Drakelord]

She was really just taking the opportunity to show off all the neat things in her Castle to make me Jealous.

Hell I'm green with envy and thanks for showing it.

 

[Ni-]

I like UOAssist's ability to use the mouse wheel for targeting... not available in KR.

Ummm, I just set targeting to my mouse wheel in KR.

I wanted to try out what everyone has been talking about. I am used to the mouse wheel zooming in and out, so I still roll to zoom, out of habit.

It'd be interesting to see how many people run the Legacy client w/o UOAssist or any 3rd part programs.

 

[Black Sun]

I use a 19 inch widescreen monitor, it leaves a lot of black space around my game window, but I actually don't mind that. I use it to set up my spell icons and various gumps.

2D 100%. I have a 24 inch monitor. If you have your settings right in game and in display settings, there is not that much black space.

I have my desktop resolution set for the maximum my video card can handle (My desktop icons are almost painfully tiny), and with a max game window of 800x600 I am left with a lot of black on the sides of my screen. I can comfortably have my paper doll, backpack, map, status bar, buff/debuff bar, and spell icons all open on my screen without having them overlap my play window at all. That was one of the reasons I upgraded my monitor, I played UO on my cousin's computer while visiting once, and I loved the way things looked on his widescreen with all that extra room for gumps.

 

[Kazar]

2D 100%. I tried KR and didn't like the way it's set up.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Seriously what is the deal with all the KR grassroots propaganda in the last week?

It is accepted practice to get a small group of people to "alpha test" something, then get them to champion it to the rest of the community. But it is rather strange that a small group is suddenly championing a client that will supposedly be replaced soon.

This is all my doing, nothing to do with EA/Mythic or anything insidious, and certainly wouldn't call it a "grassroots propaganda." This is much less than the "come play Siege" campaign or the non-stop "I DEMAND A CLASSIC SHARD" rant that is seen almost daily for the past year.

It's an idea that I got from Kelmo, in one of his "Come to Siege" posts. Kelmo said he had a house outside Umbra (I think?) on Siege that was available for new Siege players to use. I thought that was a great idea... a helping hand to those new to Siege. So I want to do the same thing... help those new to KR, or those who tried KR and it didn't perform well or didn't like the graphics, or whatever. KR is finally in a very playable form, and finally, I think, a better client than the 2D client. So I am encouraging people to try it once again, and I am offering whatever help I am able to get them up and running KR well.

Is that a bad thing? Am I forcing you to try KR? Not at all, just offering help and advice to anyone who would like to try it once again. So, this is an offer of help to anyone who would like to try KR for the first time, once again, or using it now but not happy with it. Is that a BAD thing to want to help someone else?

SA isn't quite soon-to-be released. No beta has been announced. So we have KR in its current form for a while yet. However, KR is finally in a playable form, with many bug fixes and the awesome mods available from players. And because KR was released before it was ready and was so awful, most people have tried it once or twice, haven't tried to optimize its performance, and haven't downloaded the BBE mod user interface.

Now that EA/Mythic is working on the updated KR client to become the new SA client, this is our/my chance to have some input on the design, and HOPEFULLY have it come out of the starting gate at least as playable as KR is with the current BBE mod. I like KR and don't want it to die for lack of players.

And just so you know, I'm not trying to get EA/Mythic to drop the 2D client (although, that would stop all of the old 3rd party cheat programs and client hacks). If for some reason KR gets dropped as a client in the future, I'll go back to playing 2D.

And I've never said, and I've never read a posting from someone else that said, "if they stop supporting KR I'm going to cancel all my accounts!"

 

[Kratos Aurion]

2D currently due to my ISP being lacky and greedy with bandwidth. I usually play KR in college etc (with good bandwidth) and especially when training skills (so much easier) and I enjoy looking at content from a different perspective every now and then

 

[Dor of Sonoma]

...It'd be interesting to see how many people run the Legacy client w/o UOAssist or any 3rd party programs.

In over 11 years, I have not only never used UOA (nor yet any other 3rd party programs) - but have never felt the slightest urge to do so.

In 2D, the ingame mechanics have always sufficed nicely for me, thankee.

 

[Old Man of UO]

In over 11 years, I have not only never used UOA (nor yet any other 3rd party programs) - but have never felt the slightest urge to do so.

In 2D, the ingame mechanics have always sufficed nicely for me, thankee.

What? You don't want to send $15 to Tugsoft to use an outdated program that is no longer maintained?

 

[DevilsOwn]

What? You don't want to send $15 to Tugsoft to use an outdated program that is no longer maintained?

nope, me either... tried Assist some years back, and I know many who swear by it, but it just got in the way for me

 

[Kratos Aurion]

In over 11 years, I have not only never used UOA (nor yet any other 3rd party programs) - but have never felt the slightest urge to do so.

In 2D, the ingame mechanics have always sufficed nicely for me, thankee.

QFT. macros always worked fine for me. I did the free trial of UOA and hated it (whats the insentive? its slow and chuggy)

 

[Smokin]

QFT. macros always worked fine for me. I did the free trial of UOA and hated it (whats the insentive? its slow and chuggy)

The only things I use in UOA are the bandage self thingy, because we never use to have one, and I still use it because I like it better then having to use the targeting system, it just screws me up. Then for crafting it is a great helper, for making multiple things. If they could put that those into the old 2D macro systems I think UOA would be completely gone almost. Well except for the pvpers that like to chug pots.

 

[Flora Green]

nope, me either... tried Assist some years back, and I know many who swear by it, but it just got in the way for me

Same with me. I used it for crafting, even paid the $15, but I didn't care for it. Awhile back I lost the info to access it and don't care enough to bother searching for it. I use the in game 2d macros fine. Which means I don't need to login to KR "just to craft", either.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

...

It's a damn shame KR turned out absolutely TERRIBLE instead.

And the last time you used it is when?

Monday of this week.

Any my feet were still dragging the ground when I rode my nightmare.

And my Sorcerer's Armor? Well, that is a garish mix of brown and purple. *shudders*

My white Violet Courge...not white. Brown.

My mare has some weird mane...makes him look like the old 60's/70's rock star ... Meatloaf.

My Greater Dragon...Tiamat...will not stop flapping her wings. Even when standing still. And did I mention that she doesn't look like a dragon? She looks like some kind of deranged lizard...and she is the wrong color?! WTF is up with that?

On the upside, the star field next to my tower looks like something I saw when I dropped acid back in college. Some fun can be had staring off into that and ... well ... using some recreational substances

But above all else, I want my words above me when I speak. I know there is probably some 3rd party something I could do to get that, but it's much easier to stay sober, and just double click that 2D icon...and avoid the mess that is KR.

 

[It Lives]

2D for me 100% yep.

 

[Kat]

100% 2D. I don't even have KR on my machine.

 

[Lunaticus]

While I like the looks of a lot of KR, I hate that they changed the entire user interface. Between not being able to figure out how to do some stuff that seems really easy in 2D, I'm also STILL missing certain graphics in my houses. There's no way that I'll even consider working with KR until my missing water tiles show up, and I am NOT redoing my house.