I don't usually post ideas here but in regards to tamers....

[TheScoundrelRico]

Would a simple fix for the tamer problem (not the fighting, but the silver collection) be that if a pet or summons kills the mob, the silver stays on the mob corspe and must be looted, as opposed to the system in place now where the silver just pops into the pack of the animal or summons owner...la

 

[red sky]

I think what Archite666 is getting at is that tamers can be a bit over-powered when in groups. Tamers are quite easy to get rid of if they are by themselves and its a 1 v 1. However when you do add a dismounter and a couple of more tamers and they all stay in a group; it gets quite difficult to get rid of them unless you are smart and use a bard with discord or peacing. I have an anti-tamer template that runs 4/6 chiv, pots, 120 discord/music, dog form and a kick ass greater dragon. I can obliterate a persons greater dragon in a couple of seconds with that template. The only problem is that I don't have a weapon skill so I get hit about every time. But I think that's fair considering the power that I have over any other tamer and considering I usually have a body guard with me when I run that template. So quit complaining about tamers because there are always ways to get around those tactics if you are smart and use teamwork. BTW I play a mage in pvp predominately but I play any template that I need to play to get the job done.

 

[Turdnugget]

Dunno if tamer silver farming is just an issue on Siege.. but I can farm it just as fast w/out my pet on the same character or my other toon...I think the AFK farming is what people are complaining about...

And pet firebreath is what needs to be toned down in PvP. And FC speed/range of sight.

 

[Uvtha]

So basically, you are saying "My template should be the most powerful template, and I should not have to change a thing. In fact, everyone that uses a template that my template does not work well against should be barred from participating", right?

1) I am a tamer. A stealth tamer at that, but i've been a stealth tamer for like 9 years. Tamers ARE overpowered on siege. Very. I may not pvp much, but I don't have to to see how broken taming is in pvp right now.

2) You seem to think its RIGHT that in faction -PVP- you should have to bring 2-3 stealth archers JUST to combat dragons. Thats not pvp. It's pvm, with no reward.

3) You can bring your archers and you still wont kill the tamer, even if you did, they probably just had some bolas and smoke bombs.

People who do not play siege, and don't seem to realize how different things are need to stop talking like they know what we are going through. Not to mention the whole "adapt no matter what the issue is" crowd are bizarrely short sighted, and to me just seem too stubborn to admit that the devs just MIGHT have made a mistake. I mean if they put in bazookas that did 400 damage 100% accuracy and gave them to only one class you'd be telling people to adapt rather than having the idiotic misstep of an addition toned down.

See how many "adapt" spouting people you can find on siege. Then lets see how many people running the completely broken template (like me) will openly say that it IS tottaly broken on siege. You'll find plenty.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

BTW I play a mage in pvp predominately but I play any template that I need to play to get the job done.

That is exactly what I am saying.

Adapt, or die. It's the foundation of Darwinism.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

3) You can bring your archers and you still wont kill the tamer, even if you did, they probably just had some bolas and smoke bombs.

Thanks to insurance you don't get anything for loot off of players anymore anyway. Don't even get me started on that rant.

and to me just seem too stubborn to admit that the devs just MIGHT have made a mistake.

Not me. I can go on and on and on about the mistakes the devs have made.

The point is, having one of the hardest templates in the game to max out as one of the most powerful templates in the game seems like exactly the right thing to do to me.

The mistake was when the allowed peope to buy their characters through Advanced Character Tokens and + Skill jewels.

 

[Skwiz]

Siege, No insurance, No advanced tokens.. What the hell are you even talking about...

Cash started this post with Tamers are overpowered.. and said "On siege"

its been said many times.. this is mainly... About Siege..

Guess what?


Siege Perilous!

 

[Karthcove]

Pets should not be allowed to be healed by a char with magic - only aides.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Siege, No insurance, No advanced tokens.. What the hell are you even talking about...

You realize that there are other shards that existed before Siege, right?

But you are correct, this discussion did start about Siege. But when have the devs done anything that only affected "production shards" (like Siege is out of production or something) and not Siege or vice versa?

My comments are about the across the board reluctance of PvPers to alter their templates and playstyles.

But since you "Uber" and "l337" "dewds" on Siege don't care about the opinions of "n00bs" like me...I will allow you to continue your whine-fest sans one 11 year vet.

Buh-bye.


Also...if this is solely about Siege...then why wasn't it posted in the Siege forums??? (Any mod want to move this thread?)

 

[WarUltima]

Timer for hiding is closer to 8 seconds, when training it, I would normally have to set a delay of 11 seconds in UOA, based on lag...la

Not really. if you hide take a step and enter stealth mode you can rehide in 5 second and you can keep doing this forever.

As long as you are revealed stealthing theres only a 5 second delay on rehide. And I thought you knew what you were talking about. Well, guess not... la.

 

[kelmo]

Hi Morgana. I am neither "uber" or "l337", ask around they will tell you. The reason Siege comes here to post, is that there is little evidence of Dev attention on the Siege forum. We have to fish where the fish are. That is here on Uhall. *smiles*

Some of the Siege folk come off a little rough and tumble I suppose. It is just our nature.

The PvP tamer situation is a different animal on Siege. Was that a pun?

It has to be different. Tamers almost have it locked down on Siege. I don't even attempt to take the field anymore... I tend my tavern and remember...

 

[archite666]

"Also...if this is solely about Siege...then why wasn't it posted in the Siege forums??? (Any mod want to move this thread?) "

Wow you fool, you know that UHall is for every shard right? You know us Siege people have been tearing up trammies like you long before you even knew was stratics was.

Once again since it is for Siege, how about you quit trolling, offering your one sided tamer based opinions and move on.

"That is exactly what I am saying.
Adapt, or die. It's the foundation of Darwinism. "

Ok so your answer is to play a tamer myself? Yes lets all play tamers. Thank you for proving my point.

"So basically, you are saying "My template should be the most powerful template, and I should not have to change a thing. In fact, everyone that uses a template that my template does not work well against should be barred from participating", right?"

I love how you always type this stuff to make us seem like cryers because our templates are not good, this is about balance, something you will never know about, since you can only say all kill.

Also you know nothing about Siege so ALL of your posts are completely void.

No redskye, what I was getting at is exactly what I said, tamers have no place in pvp. (personal opinion) And are the most overpowered template on Siege Period (a fact that everyone supports)

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

..............................................................................

 

[kelmo]

Come now folks... Temper tantrums are unbecoming.

 

[Uvtha]

But you are correct, this discussion did start about Siege. But when have the devs done anything that only affected "production shards" (like Siege is out of production or something) and not Siege or vice versa?

... plenty of times. How many shards have the character bound blessing option? We don't have blessed new items like prodoshards do (most of the time anyway) and im sure there are other situations.

My comments are about the across the board reluctance of PvPers to alter their templates and playstyles.

And therein lies your problem. This is a SPECIFIC problem. Specific to siege because it was balanced for other shards. There really isn't much other pvp complaining on our shard, as aside from tamers its all pretty balanced.

But since you "Uber" and "l337" "dewds" on Siege don't care about the opinions of "n00bs" like me...I will allow you to continue your whine-fest sans one 11 year vet.

Its not that we don't care about your opinion per say, its because your talking about something you haven't actually experienced, and assume its the same as any other shard, when in actuality it's not even close.

The introduction of the greater dragon to siege has had some pretty sever consequences. As kelmo has said it has basically locked down the shard to anyone who isn't a tamer, or who doesn't run with tamer backup. When the tamers show up, you simply have to leave because at BEST all you can do pvming the dragons, is slow it down for 4 or 5 minutes, and get nothing out of it.

It's not fun. It's not pvp. It's broken. Oh, and its NOT an issue on prodo shards.

From an 11 year vet tamer, 9 year stealth tamer.

 

[Lord_Puffy]

I think what you mean to say is : No other temps that you currently run and know how to play well enough make as big of a difference than a tamer with a GDragon.

I have killed several tamers using my Archer. And I have killed several Archers using my tamer. I have also been killed several times by archers when on my tamer. But I rarely die to tamers on my archer because I have enough sense not to just stand in one place and let them kill me.

Straight warrior templates are not as effective against tamers...that's for certain. But I have been killed by mages...especially Necro-mages.

You just have to alter your tactics (real skills...not just button mashing).

But this issue has been debated and debated.

I have put my 2 cents in...so I will bow out of the rest of this debate.

Really didnt seem to be the case when you responded to everyone in the thread.

You realize that there are other shards that existed before Siege, right?

But you are correct, this discussion did start about Siege. But when have the devs done anything that only affected "production shards" (like Siege is out of production or something) and not Siege or vice versa?

My comments are about the across the board reluctance of PvPers to alter their templates and playstyles.

But since you "Uber" and "l337" "dewds" on Siege don't care about the opinions of "n00bs" like me...I will allow you to continue your whine-fest sans one 11 year vet.

Buh-bye.


Also...if this is solely about Siege...then why wasn't it posted in the Siege forums??? (Any mod want to move this thread?)

And by that logic, shouldnt everyone be posting in their own shard forum? You included, go hang out in the atlantic forum???

You really sound so ignorant through-out this whole thread.

How about we log onto test center, Ill play the tamer template you play "whatever" tamerplate it is you think you can beat it on? I bet I win 100 out of 100, and prove that it completely and utterly overpowered.

I also do not agree with the OP's proposed "fix"

Id much rather see firebreath capped at 35, and see animal form take a pet slot, as well as smoke bombs taking 100 ninja and 20 mana.

That would be balance.

 

[John Connelly]

That is exactly what I am saying.

Adapt, or die. It's the foundation of Darwinism.

I think that would be more the basis of Lamarckism than Darwinism. Darwinism would select an existing template and Lamarckism would "adapt" an existing template. Darwinism does not allow adaptation to a particular environment.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

Timer for hiding is closer to 8 seconds, when training it, I would normally have to set a delay of 11 seconds in UOA, based on lag...la

That's if you're not stealthing. Break into stealth and your skill timer gets reset to something closer to four seconds or less.

 

[archite666]

exactly my point, even if you removed the 60 point fireball, dragons are still nasty.

This is a common occurance, just combining two rather broken or overpowerful things into deadly combination.

Fix taming some, nerve it a little bit.

Fix stealthing, make it so its not easy to bail out of combat

ninja and bolas could use a little fixing as well.

 

[thechoppa]

Adapt, or die. It's the foundation of Darwinism.

Actually, I beleive that Tamers in pvp represent the exact opposite of the Darwinism ideology, where only the species who adapt get to survive.

The ruler of the world (owners, devs and other UO staff) want to have a large population (suscribers) that enjoys the game. Now, on the pvp side of the game, there are thoses who suck badly, and would disappear faster than the grand panda, and there are thoses who can adapt, learn to cast faster, learn to target faster, explore the different combos, etc.

Thoses who suck badly, under darwinism rules, should logically disappear, being bored at dying constantly in any situation. But that would leave the ruler of the world with a smaller population (less suscribers) and that would not be good.

So in his great wisdom, the ruler of the world created a helper for the players that sucks badly. A helper with 10 times the hit points, impossible to interrupt, that can cast on you several screens away. All the player who suck badly has to do, is to say all kill and target. Preferably, he will also have triggered a macro to put the player that doesn't suck badly on foot. No need to worrie about the combo or whatever, the helper takes care of that.

The problem with all this is that the players who don't suck badly got tired of getting killed 3 screens away by the helper of the player who sucks badly. So now, the players that don't suck badly and would usually dominate the world have to adapt to the strategy of the players who sucks badly and play a tamer like them, in order to survive.

IMO, that sucks badly

 

[archite666]

in.....deed......

 

[WarUltima]

Actually, I beleive that Tamers in pvp represent the exact opposite of the Darwinism ideology, where only the species who adapt get to survive.

The ruler of the world (owners, devs and other UO staff) want to have a large population (suscribers) that enjoys the game. Now, on the pvp side of the game, there are thoses who suck badly, and would disappear faster than the grand panda, and there are thoses who can adapt, learn to cast faster, learn to target faster, explore the different combos, etc.

Thoses who suck badly, under darwinism rules, should logically disappear, being bored at dying constantly in any situation. But that would leave the ruler of the world with a smaller population (less suscribers) and that would not be good.

So in his great wisdom, the ruler of the world created a helper for the players that sucks badly. A helper with 10 times the hit points, impossible to interrupt, that can cast on you several screens away. All the player who suck badly has to do, is to say all kill and target. Preferably, he will also have triggered a macro to put the player that doesn't suck badly on foot. No need to worrie about the combo or whatever, the helper takes care of that.

The problem with all this is that the players who don't suck badly got tired of getting killed 3 screens away by the helper of the player who sucks badly. So now, the players that don't suck badly and would usually dominate the world have to adapt to the strategy of the players who sucks badly and play a tamer like them, in order to survive.

IMO, that sucks badly

:bowdown:

*quickly puts on shroud of flame extinguishing*

 

[BardMal]

With a response like yours, you have to exclusively play a tamer or you just don't PvP.

There is no way that you would agree if you truly knew what you were talking about.

The OP hit it right on the nose. Except I dont think Pets should be in PvP at all. At least not until they fix some major issues with taming.

That would be cool, just make tamers non attack able, and pets non attack able. Then I could just take my tamer to fel and farm the scrolls required for my other non pvp templates to be playable, without having to interact with the non social pvp class of weak egos that I prefer not to interact with.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

... without having to interact with the non social ...

And what really depresses me is that I honestly believe you're serious about this.

 

[MorganaLeFey]

Nonsense... you are trying to quibble words, but it is still nonsense.

LOL Was just thinking that very same thing.

Besides, the lady did say she pvp's as a tamer (one character) or an archer (another character). That's sufficient to qualify as a pvper in my tome.

 

[MorganaLeFey]

Obviously, you don't PvP either.

You want to know what nonsense is? Nonsense is when you have no skill whatsoever in PvP but think you do because you can say "all kill".

Obviously you don't know the Old Man. *shrugs*

 

[Green Meanie]

as one of the posters said the dragon is nasty itself combined with the super breath weapon makes them stupid. Cap all pet damage at 35 in pvp from spells melle attacks or special attacks. This will also make room for adding pets with higher abilitys against monsters in later expansions.

 

[Old Man of UO]

as one of the posters said the dragon is nasty itself combined with the super breath weapon makes them stupid. Cap all pet damage at 35 in pvp from spells melle attacks or special attacks. This will also make room for adding pets with higher abilitys against monsters in later expansions.

I don't disagree with capping the damage... but at the same time you MUST also cap the damage from all PvP. You have weapons that can do normal damage, specials, area spell, hit lower attack/defense and hit spell all at once to combine for damage way above 35. And then you have spell channeling weapons that allow spell for casting on TOP of all of that.

What will you do for those? Or is that okay, and just pets to be nerfed?

 

[Widow Maker]

I wouldn't have any problem with this. Bards need to be more useful in PvP.

As long as correct bard flagging is put in, this is what the skill was and is meant to do. I love playing my PvP bard. He could so much more if the provoke smack down was removed.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

Actually, I beleive that Tamers in pvp represent the exact opposite of the Darwinism ideology, where only the species who adapt get to survive.

The ruler of the world (owners, devs and other UO staff) want to have a large population (suscribers) that enjoys the game. Now, on the pvp side of the game, there are thoses who suck badly, and would disappear faster than the grand panda, and there are thoses who can adapt, learn to cast faster, learn to target faster, explore the different combos, etc.

Thoses who suck badly, under darwinism rules, should logically disappear, being bored at dying constantly in any situation. But that would leave the ruler of the world with a smaller population (less suscribers) and that would not be good.

So in his great wisdom, the ruler of the world created a helper for the players that sucks badly. A helper with 10 times the hit points, impossible to interrupt, that can cast on you several screens away. All the player who suck badly has to do, is to say all kill and target. Preferably, he will also have triggered a macro to put the player that doesn't suck badly on foot. No need to worrie about the combo or whatever, the helper takes care of that.

The problem with all this is that the players who don't suck badly got tired of getting killed 3 screens away by the helper of the player who sucks badly. So now, the players that don't suck badly and would usually dominate the world have to adapt to the strategy of the players who sucks badly and play a tamer like them, in order to survive.

IMO, that sucks badly

This should be stickied.

 

[Kratos Aurion]

I like the developers solution better only because it allows taming to be a viable playstyle for pvpers to consider.

The game changes and so do player attitudes. Taming is now widely accepted as a capable pvp playstyle. Although you or many others may not like it, it still doesnt change the fact that it is what it is. The only thing that needs to be changed is how pets interact in the PvP community.

So my reasons being that why tamers should NOT be discluded from pvp are..

1) because more than 1 guild has adopted it as a viable playstyle
2) they are as gimp as mages, archers, and necro spammers (and everyone else who deserves to be called gimp)
3) they pose an actual challenge to players who prevent change in an evolving game and refuse to accept change as a "good" thing.
4) no player should be discluded from any aspect of the game because of their choice to be something different

So like I mentioned above, the only changes that need be are how pets interact within the PvP community such as how much damage they deal and other variable influences that can be added to the game.

 

[Coffin]

So in his great wisdom, the ruler of the world created a helper for the players that sucks badly. A helper with 10 times the hit points, impossible to interrupt, that can cast on you several screens away. All the player who suck badly has to do, is to say all kill and target. Preferably, he will also have triggered a macro to put the player that doesn't suck badly on foot. No need to worry about the combo or whatever, the helper takes care of that.

The problem with all this is that the players who don't suck badly got tired of getting killed 3 screens away by the helper of the player who sucks badly. So now, the players that don't suck badly and would usually dominate the world have to adapt to the strategy of the players who sucks badly and play a tamer like them, in order to survive.

LoL, great post. Well said, sir.

Let the tamers be tamers I say, they must surely know it's extremely lame.

I think PvP is a lot more fun with people using hybrid dexers and mages. So, to do my part, I play a simple scribe mage in factions. Tamers kick my butt, sure. But eh? I lift my shoulders and shrug it off. I like being in the small percentile of players who logs a pure mage. When you can do well people really respect that. And that makes me ^_^.