Bring Back Risk (DEVs hear me!)

[Turdnugget]

An old school server would be sweet...I'd play Siege but don't feel like taking months upon end to have a character to compete PvP wise.

When I played Lineage II and someone went red, if you killed that red there was a chance that they'd drop X amount of items or a piece of their armor etc...If you died blue you didn't lose anything unless you didn't get back to your body in time.

It would be kinda unfair to the reds in game today... but maybe something similar could be implemented? not sure... just throwing it out there...

Maybe just give us a pre-AoS shard?

 

[Gheed]

agreed ... insureance needs to go; stuff drops to corpse and loot rights after 60 seconds in Tram set, immediate in Fel.

I have a better idea.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

I have been trying to state this for years, ever since the start of AoS.

A pre UO:R server would be amazing. Seeing as there is only one shard, Siege, that has a strictly Fel ruleset.

UO:R, before Pub 16 (Stat scrolls, etc.) would be just as good in my book though, you still get your Tram along with WBB.

You get your Chaos vs. Order system back.

You get your guildwars back, the way they used to be before this broken system. No more alliances.

Big guilds weren't all that rampant back then, and the choke style fighting was pretty much null and void.

You get the old stat loss for PK's, you die, you lose a percentage of your skills. Forcing you to rework them.

You get the old bounty system back.

You don't have to worry about spending millions on armor and weapons to go out and fight.

Most of all to me, thieves are yet again useful and effective.
I truly miss my old disarm thief mage. Though I spent a lot of time burning counts and reworking skills due to stat loss, heh.

I honestly believe if an old style server was made, that it would bring back a lot of old faces and maybe a semi resurgence of UO in the MMO market.

Feel free to post stuff I missed that was great about the old days in support of this idea.

Oh and before anyone goes and says that nobody will leave the items behind. I have at least one of the better mage suits on this game and I would gladly drop everything I own across all servers, just to have an old style server back. Free servers are not the answer here.

The shard idea wont happen but this can be applied to a new land. Close enough and more probable. But I doubt we will see either.

 

[WildWobble]

hehe she is such a dude

dude
1883, "fastidious man," New York City slang of unknown origin. The vogue word of 1883, originally used in ref. to the devotees of the "aesthetic" craze, later applied to city slickers, especially Easterners vacationing in the West (dude ranch first recorded 1921). Surfer slang application to any male is first recorded c.1970. Female form dudine (1883) has precedence over dudess (1885).

of course dood is just a rehash of same word only spelled the way it sounds by the masses of Americans who never passed grade 6.

 

[Saris]

biggest prob I still see is that folk have differnt templates, if you build your temp pvm strong it is weak pvp and if vise versa this has unballanced the game since folks had more than one gm skill.

What reward is there to take a big boss guy into a pvp battle? Why also if your guy can take a peerless boss solo cant he kill ppl?

Just the way the game was made, I see no solution to fix this so I dont see insurance and tram ever going away.

 

[Hemisphere]

What a crappy definition. Everybody knows the female form of dude is "dudette".

 

[RibaIdry]

stuff

Every time I hear someone going on about "worlds" I pretty much write them off as a loopy amateur sociologist who would be better off getting out of the massively multiplayer online gaming genre and writing dissertations on experimental text muds instead.

Your speculation upon what is and is not healthy for the long-term success of an MMO is refuted by pretty much every actual MMO in existence, including this one since it quit being what you're talking about well over half it's lifespan ago.

 

[Vierna_GL]

This thread is pointless, if you don't want insurance don't use it. Who cares if someone calls you a "dude", I'm female and the word dude is just a generic reference to someone. Hell my own son calls me dude and I think nothing of it.

I guess it does give one some "reason" to post a pic of themselves ... that sure did have alot of relevance to the topic didn't it ...

Stop beating a dead horse, insurance is here and will stay here, if you don't like it don't insure your items, problem solved for ya. No reason to force your playstyle onto others.

This post was meant to have no ill-will against the poster, I'm just tired of these senseless topics, no wonder I don't read Stratics often, too many people whining about nothing ...

 

[RibaIdry]

"Hey guys, remember when this game was a Lord of the Flies social experiment gone awry and got it's lights punched out by the very first competitor to appear? Well that happened because the game was so AWESOME! We need to go back to that!"

 

[xxmoondancerxx]

This thread is pointless, if you don't want insurance don't use it. Who cares if someone calls you a "dude", I'm female and the word dude is just a generic reference to someone. Hell my own son calls me dude and I think nothing of it.

I guess it does give one some "reason" to post a pic of themselves ... that sure did have alot of relevance to the topic didn't it ...

Stop beating a dead horse, insurance is here and will stay here, if you don't like it don't insure your items, problem solved for ya. No reason to force your playstyle onto others.

This post was meant to have no ill-will against the poster, I'm just tired of these senseless topics, no wonder I don't read Stratics often, too many people whining about nothing ...

You are absolutely right on the first paragraph it is pointless, as far as the dude thing goes if you need to prove yourself by posting the pic please look down and check in your panties next time Im sure you will be re-assured you are not a dude LOL!!

I know insurance is here to stay, and this is what the boards are about either whining or dramaqueens! Ill bet you an orny she and the other posters that agree with her has a character somewhere with insurance on it BAHAHAHA!!

 

[Lore Master]

UO has turned into a mamby-pamby care-bear land!!

Seriously!! When someone dies, their sh*t should stay on their corpse! And everyone should be able to loot it!!!

You die = you lose your sh*t!


Did anyone else play UO before 1999 besides me??!!!

No terrible idea no offense your idea would just drive more people away from UO then it would Bring in.

 

[Coldren]

Simply disabling insurance isn't the solution for one reason: Items. I played back at launch for a few years, and I can safely say that even though I am not a "loot *****" that in today's UO, if my equipment was looted, I'd be royally peeved. Why? Items are FAR more important now than the were then. Back then for weapons, for example, you had 7 levels - Regular, Exceptional, Ruin, Might, Force, Power, Vanquishing. It was simple. Now there are so many properties and calculations and percentages to consider, that someone destroying the delicate balance I COULD make and sometimes need is an exercise in frustration. Siege is no exception to this rule, which is why I don't consider Siege the answer to this problem.

TLDR Summary for that paragraph: Can't get rid of insurance until you do away with AOS, and that isn't happening.

Secondly, an "Intelligent" PvP system is a better option. But I don't agree with how it's been stated thus far. The problem is, you need to have a gradient to the levels of PvP, not a sharp drop. And most importantly, these levels of PvP need to be able to interact in the SAME PHYSICAL SPACE as those who do not chose to PvP without breaking immersion. I think if they had simply made a PvP flag with a long timer to change it rather than splitting the lands, UO would have turned out much different.

And last, but not least, you need a REASON to PvP. Immersion. Risk and Reward.

I have an idea of a perfect PvP scenario, but that's a topic for another thread.

 

[Gheed]

I have an idea of a perfect PvP scenario, but that's a topic for another thread.

me too... at least as far as insurance is concerned.

But a "perfect" PvP scenario? All in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Coldren]

me too... at least as far as insurance is concerned.

But a "perfect" PvP scenario? All in the eye of the beholder.

My idea has nothing to do with insurance, but other than that.. You are quite correct - allow me to rephrase:

An excellent PvP structure that I believe will accommodate a vast majority of playstyles while allowing them to inhabit the same space.

Needless to say, it would never be done in UO.. But I think the idea is sound. Again, it's an idea for another thread.

 

[Landicine]

I enjoyed playing UO back in 1998-1999, but not because of the risk-vs-reward crap. While I enjoy PvP with an appropriate character, there is no joy in having my characters-in-training, craft characters, and such outclassed and killed. Raph Koster had an interesting fact on his page from a few years ago:

"The #1 playerkiller in UO (Tinkerboy) had 14,000 murders, versus a measly 2000 for the runner-up. The average player had 2 murders."

Back in the old days, most of us were sheep. Old UO was a lot of risk and very little reward. For every solo PK I killed, I'd die three or four times to a death squad. It reminded me of the time I played a very competitive friend's favorite board game for the first and only time, and he wouldn't even let me see the rulebook. If this was the only thing UO had provided, I would have quit along with the half-a-dozen friends I had who played and the thousands that switched to Everquest, all who left before Trammel.

I stayed because of the wonder with the world and the flexibility and freedom. These actually matter to my playstyle.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

This thread is pointless... I'm just tired of these senseless topics, no wonder I don't read Stratics often, too many people whining about nothing ...

So why respond? If the topic does not interest you, then why both to read it?

Who is doing the whining?

 

[Vierna_GL]

So why respond? If the topic does not interest you, then why both to read it?

Who is doing the whining?

At least I'm not desperate enough to have some "need" to post my pic on a stratics forum to whine ...

 

[Gheed]

My idea has nothing to do with insurance, but other than that.. You are quite correct - allow me to rephrase:

An excellent PvP structure that I believe will accommodate a vast majority of playstyles while allowing them to inhabit the same space.

Needless to say, it would never be done in UO.. But I think the idea is sound. Again, it's an idea for another thread.

Looking forward to reading about it. I haven't PvP'd really since tram came about. Before then Fel was more of an annoyance than fun. Seems like everytime I wanted to do something that didn't involve PvP, I always had to deal with a griefer. Since the champ spawn changes I have met a nice PvM guild and joined them.

We slip over to fel every now and then and do spawns there. Some we win some we lose. Hardest part of it was gearing my suit for PvP..which I am still learning about. It's actually kind of fun.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Seriously!! When someone dies, their sh*t should stay on their corpse! And everyone should be able to loot it!!!

You die = you lose your sh*t!


Did anyone else play UO before 1999 besides me??!!!

There's a reason UO isn't the same as it was in '99. If you want risk, feel free to cancel insurance on everything you own. Personally, I've spent quite a few years and HUNDREDS of millions of gold getting just the armor for my characters. Then there's the 500+ runic hammers that I burned to get the weapons I wanted, not to mention the couple of hundred hours of filling and turning in Bods to get the runics.

It has been proven in the MMO industry that losing things you spend time to acquire is not good for the health of the game. The largest MMO out on the market now doesn't even let you take durability loss from PvP, much less be able to lose a single thing in any way at all.

 

[Gowron]

OK, here's my 2 cents, and I hope none are offended. I agree with the risk aspect, but here are some assumptions I'm going to go with before stating my suggestion.
1. With a declining player base, there won't be a separate shard created.
2. Completely removing insurance will turn off subscribers.
3. Completely keeping insurance will turn off subscribers. (not sure how many between #s 2 and 3, but that's the flavor I'm getting from this thread so far)
4. The costs and labor it will take to create a separate shard won't bring more benefits to EA.

OK, with that stated, here we go.
We'll keep item insurance, however, insurance will only renew 3 times per day (server up to server down). This should put in an element of risk for those of us who played before Tram/Fel and insurance while not putting what would be an inordinate amount of risk to players who came afterwards. I think this may also give rampant PvP'rs something to consider in when to pick fights and when to withdraw.

Murdering has pretty much gone to no consequences. Bring back the rulesets that prohibited "reds" from entering towns and guard zones. As far as I'm concerned, "reds" should only have free access to Bucc's Den and no others.

Perhaps with insurance going that route, we may see crafters having a more viable part in the game as was before.

Just some thoughts.

 

[wrekognize]

UO has turned into a mamby-pamby care-bear land!!

Seriously!! When someone dies, their sh*t should stay on their corpse! And everyone should be able to loot it!!!

You die = you lose your sh*t!


Did anyone else play UO before 1999 besides me??!!!

In the old days you did not need your suit in order to res and get back in the fight. Today if your suit is looted, you would not be able to get back into the fight until you replace your suit. It's a different game now.

 

[Violence]

This topic? Ep1c F4il...

;D Better stick with random pics about your private property and appearance. If I were you, I'd prefer MySpace or Facebook for this sort of thing.

Or the OT Forum....

I mean really- the guy didn't DENY you were a girl. Way I read his reply, he can't even tell what's fake either.. talking about your Avatar here.

"DEVs hear me!" ... I did LOL, for sooo many reasons..

 

[Borric]

UO has turned into a mamby-pamby care-bear land!!

Seriously!! When someone dies, their sh*t should stay on their corpse! And everyone should be able to loot it!!!

You die = you lose your sh*t!


Did anyone else play UO before 1999 besides me??!!!

I think that I have changed too much. It will never match the... I guess emotional aspect again. There were times that I was furious, and times of dam near ecstasy just from playing UO.

I’m 12 years older and I am different. I just don’t see it being so intense for me ever again. That being said, if I live to be 100, Ill still tell my great-great grandkids about UO.


Borric

 

[Velvathos]

wana loose your stuff? Siege and TheScoundrelRico is waiting for you.

I am in Darkfall Beta as well, was in Beta long before him actually..

And... I WANT TO KILL RICO AND TAKE US STUFF!!

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

It's a different game now.

I think that about sums it up.

I guess I just miss the old UO.

Not everyone here has to agree with me...that's fine. I don't see the need in all the personal insults some see fit to throw at me, but that's also fine. I guess some people cannot hear differing opinions without getting angry.

Also, I will remove the pic I posted since it seemed to offend some people.

 

[Yalp]

UO has turned into a mamby-pamby care-bear land!!

Seriously!! When someone dies, their sh*t should stay on their corpse! And everyone should be able to loot it!!!

You die = you lose your sh*t!


Did anyone else play UO before 1999 besides me??!!!

I think that would kill pvp and factions. An honest player can't compete in pvp these days except if the numbers are with them and even then it's a crap shoot if you can get them killed before their scripts kick in and 10 of their hacking friends show up. If it were a guarantee I would lose all my things when I died.. I'd never step foot into fel again.. and I'm certain I am not alone.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Not everyone here has to agree with me...that's fine. I don't see the need in all the personal insults some see fit to throw at me, but that's also fine. I guess some people cannot hear differing opinions without getting angry.

Also, I will remove the pic I posted since it seemed to offend some people.

LOL, get used to it. This and the UO.com forums have always been that way. Post a thread about a topic they disagree, and the threats of "well I'll just quit" will come from near and far. It's rather funny imo.

Also in regards to your picture...the only ones complaining, are those who sit at home all day eating their Cheetos wiping their orange fingers on their keyboard. Green is not their color...la

 

[wrekognize]

I think that about sums it up.

I guess I just miss the old UO.

Not everyone here has to agree with me...that's fine. I don't see the need in all the personal insults some see fit to throw at me, but that's also fine. I guess some people cannot hear differing opinions without getting angry.

Also, I will remove the pic I posted since it seemed to offend some people.

I respect your opinion. Expect to have a discussion with kids on these boards. I've found many still play UO.

 

[Vierna_GL]

I think that about sums it up.

I guess I just miss the old UO.

Not everyone here has to agree with me...that's fine. I don't see the need in all the personal insults some see fit to throw at me, but that's also fine. I guess some people cannot hear differing opinions without getting angry.

Also, I will remove the pic I posted since it seemed to offend some people.

I don't recall seeing any post that anyone found the pic offensive, posting the pic had no relevance to the topic ...

 

[Lord Gareth]

Yay for calling me a "Dude"?

I am no dude!

And...I am just trying to make this game better.

Sorry you fail to see it.

Your making the game better for you not for everyone else.
How can you say you know what is better for all of us if you don't even ask.

Now I could go either way. It doesn't bug me but you can't say your making the game better. You should say you are making it better for you and a select group of people.

Not everyone here has to agree with me...that's fine. I don't see the need in all the personal insults some see fit to throw at me, but that's also fine. I guess some people cannot hear differing opinions without getting angry.

Also, I will remove the pic I posted since it seemed to offend some people.

It is not about your opinon it is how you say it. You said "Im just trying to make the game better."

No you are trying to make it better in your eyes not everyones.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

they could find something to make it more of a risk. if they thought on it. maybe cap the ammount of insurable items to two less than max wearable items. Its really sad what happened with tram. would have been way smarter to guard protect 90% of the roads and 1 low 1 medium and 1 high level dungeon in fel than to make tram. hell they could still do it.

 

[the 4th man]

Back in the Early Days, there was no Trammel. When you left the "protection of Lord British's guards" (i.e. the towns), you knew that there was a risk of being murdered. And that risk was not too low. To most players this risk, this feeling of danger, was essential for their gaming experience. On the other hand, PKing soon got out of hand (mostly due to cheating and abusing of flaws in the game mechanics) and a lot of players left UO because of that problem. That's why we don't want this system back!

2 years later, Trammel was invented. Did it solve the problem? No! It created new ones. Either you go to Felucca and face the same old problems with people randomly PKing defenseless miners and adventurers, or using cheats and hacks for their advantage. Or you stay in Trammel where there's no risk whatsoever, no matter where you go (and I don't call monsters with their predictable AI a risk). Only, now the bad behavior is even more concentrated on Felucca.

My conclusion is: This Trammel/Felucca solution was a massive failure!

Of course, many people joined UO after the world had split, and they don't miss anything. Those are who you call "Trammies". They never would consider playing under Felucca ruleset (and I don't blame them!).

To my opinion, the rampant PKing should have been countered with more intelligent solutions. Players should be given the tools to govern themselves and counter those problems with in-game features. Being a killer should be possible everywhere in the gaming world, but it also should have serious consequences depending on where and how the crime was committed. Just "being red", to my opinion, is not really a serious consequence.

People should have the possibility to choose the amount of risk they're exposing themselves to. However, they should not have the possibility to switch off that risk completely.

Wrong on the inventing of trammel Hawk- Back in 88 or 89 I played an NES game made by Pony Canyon, Ultima, one of three I still have, and there is or was a trammel as well as felucca in that game.

So, the concept of trammel isn't new, it always existed. Maybe they saw it cheaper to make one area as opposed to two back then when UO online came out.

I do agree with Morgana, there ought not to be insurance in felucca.....have it be, "put up or shut up."..... I tell you what, you'd see alot less uber weapons and armor, that's for sure. I for one believe all this weaponary with buffed up bs on them has ruined the game. What's the point of having any skill?

 

[Violence]

Not everyone here has to agree with me...that's fine.


I don't see the need in all the personal insults some see fit to throw at me, but that's also fine. I guess some people cannot hear differing opinions without getting angry.

Also, I will remove the pic I posted since it seemed to offend some people.

Ah so you wanted polite, constructive criticism? I'll bite seeing how I don't have work tomorrow, read on and enjoy if you will.

Through a couple of polls it was evident that a large percentage of the Forums members -and if you ask in the game, seemingly most of the players not on the Forums to vote- like how things work in terms of insurance and so on.
Suggesting once more that those systems should be removed "For The Greater Good" will not alter a single thing. It's all been said before. It is not a matter of agreement nor a matter of voicing opinions any longer and even if it was, all you had to do was to search for polls regarding item insurance. So then, that's one issue out of the way.

Next you seem to have taken insult from a few others' as well as my own reply, in which the posting of your picture is mentioned. I can only speak for myself; I did not take offend in seeing someone such as you, obviously. Personally even if you were horribly disfigured I'd still react the same.
It's simple : When you expose yourself so openly and for so -in many cases- obvious reasons, you must be ready to be criticized. That means you might hear negative opinions as well. This coming from an alternative model and cross-dresser living in a very close-minded country, where my girl and I face way much narrow-mindedness, 24/7.

So to pin-point this, the clue(so to speak) that mostly intrigued me to speak about this issue was -as I mentioned- that whoever replied to you initially never denied you were female. ..Yet you just had to show off. Exactly the way you did in the thread about gaming rigs and such, where you ended up showing us your car and sharing information about your income among other things. You should delete those pictures and information by the way.
Oh and about your Avatar? Another clue to base my conclusions on. You see, there's too heavy editing involved(DOH!) but you never mentioned that to the guy wondering about it. Too full of yourself to mention it perhaps..?

So regarding this particular issue, I do not see how I could have insulted you by suggesting you show off your private property, assets and appearance where it would be more appropriate and better appreciated ..Or at least in the OT Forum!
I am nowhere near the image Ricco has in his mind, yet there's a time and place for everything. Onwards, this one's settled I believe.
Just two more things and I won't bother you with my "insults" any longer.

First, about you crying "Devs Hear Me!", I found it ridiculous. It gave me the sense that because you have bragged so much and in some people's eyes established the image you wanted for yourself, you now think that the Devs should hear you.
And second, yes, the thread was a failure on many levels - Just read above!

To conclude, don't allow yourself to be insulted so easily.. Heh! Hope you enjoyed reading as much as I enjoyed writing.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

In my own defense, I was more than a little drunk when I posted this last night.

I was a little surprised to see people complain because I posted a pic of myself in a thread that I started, but that's cool...I should not have posted it in the first place, and now it is gone.

As for the the "Dev's Hear Me" line:

How many posts in UHALL have (ATTENTION DEVS! or DEVS LOOK!!) ?

Again, I was a little tipsy and probably should have just not posted this. Sometimes, I do get all nostalgic for old UO, and sometimes I suffer from verbal incontinence!!

Although, I still would like to see a "classic" shard, and or some changes made to insurance to make the game more challenging, I certainly see your point that most of the players would not agree.

Who wants to make things harder for themselves? Most UO players would opt for an unlimited resources toggle if it were made available to them...but that is more of a commentary on the society we live in than a commentary on UO itself.