Can we make an all Tram shard?

[Kratos Aurion]

I wouldn't mind an all tram shard. I have had characters on siege and enjoyed it for my PvP aspect of UO. I have many characters or normal production shards and would enjoy a slice of ease with an all tram shard.

Like others have said it would create a unique community where everyone can play and help each other without mass griefing over items. Make limited character slots and let them role in.

I could easily see the shard growing in a matter of days. The only thing I'd miss would be pvping scripters vs watching them and know I can't do a damn thing about it (other than reporting).

 

[hawkeye_pike]

Game after game from the dawn of MUDs has proven that unrestricted PKing in a non-PvP game will always decay into griefing and game destruction. And yet somehow this lesson keeps having to be relearned over and over.

Well, let us consider this list of possible actions that a Killer might take against another player in UO if it had no combat system at all, or did not allow player versus player combat.

There are many many possible ways of player griefing, even in Trammel. You could kill the victim's intended target. You could lure monsters to another person and hide. You could release a tame dragon near the victim. And so on and so on. You could do all of this without even saying a word, so that the issue of verbal harassment never arises.

You see, it is axiomatic that as your virtual world becomes more malleable and more versatile, that players will find more and more ways to screw each other over. What's more, there are thousands of them for every one of you. The game developers will never be able to keep up with their ingenuity. Never underestimate the amazing ability of players to come up with new means to do each other harm. (Just look at how Valentines Cupids are used to annoy other players.) UO happens to have features that because of their newness and uniqueness, open up more ways for players to do harm to one another via indirect means. And that's what makes UO special, and not just another dull MMORPG.

UO always was embarking on the experiment of providing local empowerment to the playerbase. In the end, it boils down to the fact that the best government is the one that you can trust, which will be the one you know personally: the people close to you in your virtual community, who are held accountable precisely because of community ties. Your best government is going to be each other, and not some game admin.

Creating Trammel destroyed part of what UO originally was, and what made it so special: A social experiment.

 

[Maplestone]

Well, let us consider this list of possible actions that a Killer might take against another player in UO if it had no combat system at all, or did not allow player versus player combat.

You're missing the point that it is the mindset that matters - if you have PKing, then "how do I hurt that player" becomes the default frame of mind. If PKing isn't an option, the number of people who try to harm others drops away.

I've experienced the second age game and experenced Tram. The difference is night and day and you couldn't pay me to go back. UO is now the game I had hoped it would be when I first tried it.

edit: but I suppose I should be off playing rather than arguing about how much fun it is to play

 

[Kratos Aurion]

Actually Maplestone (I'm not attacking you and I do support an all tram shard), people in Tram usually do try to develop methods of attacking players. They just enjoy the luxury they don't have to do it physically but rather through provoking them through verbal harrassment or using the enviornment around them.

It's happened to me many times in the past and is a persistent problem that will never cease. Think about during the ToT event. People would camp spawns day in and day out and wouldn't even share. Other players would lure creatures from all over the place to get that player to either leave or lose concentration. People would try to invis the players PvMing to persistently cause them to end war mode.

Another huge instance of this occured with swoop. Players would lure ton of satyrs over when a group of necros would spam wither on the swoop. Others would lure changelings/para changelings over when mages and tamers camped.

Again time has shown us this happened yet again when the new dungeon artifacts came out. People camped spawns and were so greedy they would provoke other spawn onto other players to try to kill that player so that they could continue spawning.

So even in a fel-free shard, even without direct physical confrontation, characters will always try to develop methods of attacking each other which sadly becomes more aggressive than pvp in many ways because it requires actual thought vs point/attack.

 

[Maplestone]

Actually Maplestone (I'm not attacking you and I do support an all tram shard), people in Tram usually do try to develop methods of attacking players.

I will defer to your experience, although I have never experienced such behavior myself.

I really need to stop reading these threads, no good can come of it

 

[Bishop Cats]

Just stay in tram? Whats the difference?

so if thats your solution...then why do we have seige. cant the people who like fel just stay in fel?

i would personally love to play on an all tram shard. i feel there would be a lot more friendship and EM events would be a lot more fun because most guilds wont hate eachother for things like getting killed in fel. i know thats what fel if for....to kill people, but your lying if you say that most drama and hate from every shard comes from pvp.

so thats most of the reason i would play on an all tram shard. id rather play where nobody has a nemesis guild or hates anyone.

i also feel it would be awsome to only be allowed 1 or two characters on this shard with no transfer. not only would it bring back making money from a certian profession and resorting to barter trade rather then buying everything with gold, but it will also encourage a lot more roleplaying in my opinion...after all, this is a role playing game isnt it?

to end the post i wouldnt mind no item insurance on this shard either.

 

[Duskofdead]

Well, let us consider this list of possible actions that a Killer might take against another player in UO if it had no combat system at all, or did not allow player versus player combat.

There are many many possible ways of player griefing, even in Trammel. You could kill the victim's intended target. You could lure monsters to another person and hide. You could release a tame dragon near the victim. And so on and so on. You could do all of this without even saying a word, so that the issue of verbal harassment never arises.

You see, it is axiomatic that as your virtual world becomes more malleable and more versatile, that players will find more and more ways to screw each other over. What's more, there are thousands of them for every one of you. The game developers will never be able to keep up with their ingenuity. Never underestimate the amazing ability of players to come up with new means to do each other harm. (Just look at how Valentines Cupids are used to annoy other players.) UO happens to have features that because of their newness and uniqueness, open up more ways for players to do harm to one another via indirect means. And that's what makes UO special, and not just another dull MMORPG.

UO always was embarking on the experiment of providing local empowerment to the playerbase. In the end, it boils down to the fact that the best government is the one that you can trust, which will be the one you know personally: the people close to you in your virtual community, who are held accountable precisely because of community ties. Your best government is going to be each other, and not some game admin.

Creating Trammel destroyed part of what UO originally was, and what made it so special: A social experiment.

This is what I learned from the "social experiment." In fact, it's not really restricted to pre-Tram UO. It could be said of any MMO which lets players, in part, affect gameplay, PvP and the market through their actions.

Lesson learned: all that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

I would follow it up with: good people do nothing for as absolutely long as possible. The incentive to do evil is great reward. The incentive to stop evil is simply to return to a neutral status-quo.

So in an uncontrolled environment, evil pretty much always wins. Whether you want to define that as the use of exploits, cheats, hacks, griefing behavior, PK behavior, deliberate sabotage of in-game mechanics or flukes for personal gain, etc.

 

[Viper09]

Wow, wasn't there already a thread about this already?

Short answer: NO

Reason?

We have enough shards already!

Another reason?

EA would have to alter the patch just for that one shard so it would mess up all different things. A good example is Siege.

Another reason?

What makes Siege different is that it was made to be harder to play. They have no insurance and all the facets are in fel-rule set. Originally all these facets are set in tram rule-set only. So obviously Siege is completely different.

A trammel only shard would be exactly the same as production shards minus fel. Only with champ spawns. That just isn't worth making a whole new shard.

Better solution?
Add a champ spawn in tram. End of story.