Tamer Shadow Ele Training

[Old Man of UO]

... Here is a definition of exploit since you like to fling the word around without much thought.

In the realm of online games, an exploit is usually a software bug, hack or bot that contributes to the user's prosperity in a manner not intended by the developers...

Who said this wasn't intended by the developers? Show me the quote?

For every tamer training a pet unattended, I will show you 10 bank sitters in Luna training unattended for hours a day, and two more outside the gate whacking a golem. How hard would it be to fix that? Fix all of that and I would agree. Otherwise, leave it alone.

 

[Wenchkin]

Who said this wasn't intended by the developers? Show me the quote?

For every tamer training a pet unattended, I will show you 10 bank sitters in Luna training unattended for hours a day, and two more outside the gate whacking a golem. How hard would it be to fix that? Fix all of that and I would agree. Otherwise, leave it alone.

I'd still prefer as I suggested, removing all these AFK'able training methods until EA get to the point where they're on top of the cheating.

And fix it so that training through normal gameplay gets better results and is much more enjoyable than it is currently.

I don't see any benefit in maintaining these methods of training. It's like paying to sit staring at the wall. But as long as the majority happily park their chars and pets, nothing will be changed. They've become an obstacle to getting an enjoyable training system in place, regardless of how convenient some players think they are.

Though given the number of unattended players I've caught with parked players and pets, it's no surprise that the training dummies are so popular *sigh*

Wenchy

 

[Lady_Emma]

I think it is odd that so many players hate tamers. Tamers take forever to build and a lot ot skill to use, particually now when animals just stand there getting killed until a tamer, who is usually in an inferior suit without things like resist and eval, tells the stupid pet what to do.Even when the tamer survives to say all kill the effect is not definate. The pet might just say no, or get stuck on a hill or decide he would rather kill another target. Tamers who have trained vetenary find that most champs now do area damage so their veternary is useless. So they train magery and medetation to suppliment their vertenary skill. They have no room left over for evaulation or resist so the magery has no useful purpose other than to heal. Pets cannot chug heals or cures or eat petals like other fighters so they are hit by every spell and the tamer must constantly heal. Regular dragons are useless aganist some of the champs so the tamer is often on foot with his pet. To add insult to injury, pets lose their skills every time they die no wonder they are always training skills. Maybe weapons should lose their strength everytime the dexer dies and when they go to hit a pvper the weapon hits a swamp rat or runs away altogether.. Everyone uses methods to train, dexers use golems and mages cast small spells on themselves or friends and they use wands or weapons to lower their skill. Dexers have great weapons weapons and can pretty much insure they will hit something with every swing or shot of a bow. Tamers are the most put upon people in the game as it is. I do not think tamers need any more disadvantage.

 

[Borric]

If I remember right, shadow eles took zero damage from pets on purpose.

 

[Aboo]

If I remember right, shadow eles took zero damage from pets on purpose.

Can you remember the reasoning for it? Seems odd to me that they would inadvertently make SE take zero damage from pets. It would seem more likely they would do it on purpose so that maybe tamers couldn't kill them?

 

[Wenchkin]

I think they intended for them to be unkillable by tamers, but didn't realise that they'd end up as the tamer's training mob of choice. Of course, they could have changed it once they realised...

They didn't properly fix golems when they realised about those or satyrs.

The only thing I can suggest to explain this is they didn't want to spend time on more enjoyable gain systems through the game and left the training dummies in instead.

Of course, they're now a magnet for AFK trainers so I'd argue that any development time saved in re-hashing gains systems has been spent instead by the GM staff trying to keep on top of the cheats. Just think how much more fun UO would be if training was actually enjoyable. As long as the training dummy mobs remain I doubt we'll even find out.

Wenchy

 

[Tina Small]

The only thing I can suggest to explain this is they didn't want to spend time on more enjoyable gain systems through the game and left the training dummies in instead.

I think you hit the nail on the head. One of the developers (I think it was Leurocian) even admitted last year at one of the Town Hall meetings that there is no content in the gain to give you gains in spellweaving over a certain level...you just have to settle for GGS gains and grin and bear it. They've also admitted in the past that skill gains at the high end of the range for skills that cap at 100 are messed up. (I think it happened when they had to modify the algorithms to accommodate some skills going to 120.)

So now instead of plunging into the code for all these skill gain systems (I think they tried with RoT and scrapped it), it seems they've come up with the brilliant idea of giving us Scrolls of Transcendence. I truly hope that the SoT are just a stop-gap measure. It would give me a lot more confidence in the future of UO if I knew someone on the dev team is focusing on the issue of how to make skill gains happen at a reasonable speed while actually doing something in the game that makes sense, requires active participation, and doesn't lull you to sleep in five minutes.

 

[Cogniac]

This sums up everything that is wrong with this thread:

Even if it is deemed legal by EA, to me that's a cheat...

 

[YuriGaDaisukiDa]

I agree with the OP its an exploit, though I don't find it odd that they're allowed to get away with it.

shadow els are immune to pet damage, but pets are still fighitng, and that means they are gaining

sorry you are wrong it is working as intended

 

[Black magick]

This community has moved toward too much crying against other players.


People doing something that is not hurting you is, unfair? Lets page and get them in trouble? Where is your logic. It's an old game with a shrinking player base. Ease up UO police. NO one ever liked you and ever will. You're only hurting yourself.



Sure, page on the guy thats actually hurting your game play experience somehow.


A friend got banned for having a over loaded quiver......whooopie. Dev's should fix the bug and not ban people over it after 1+ years. And you know no GM by luck saw him, some cry baby had to page.


I dont get it. Show some love.

So are we adding speed hackers and scripters to your acceptance list of exploiters?
@Lady Emma - are you fricken serious?

 

[Borric]

Can you remember the reasoning for it? Seems odd to me that they would inadvertently make SE take zero damage from pets. It would seem more likely they would do it on purpose so that maybe tamers couldn't kill them?

Sorry Aboo. I've been trying to remember any reason (if any were even given) they might have given at the time, but can't. Getting old sucks, lol.

 

[Aboo]

Sorry Aboo. I've been trying to remember any reason (if any were even given) they might have given at the time, but can't. Getting old sucks, lol.

Thanks for the reply. I've tried looking but have had no luck yet. I concur with the "Getting old sucks"!

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

shadow els are immune to pet damage, but pets are still fighitng, and that means they are gaining

sorry you are wrong it is working as intended

I disagree.

Just because something works doesn't make it intended. Duping works.

Also unless you personally designed them I doubt you would know whats intended. I doubt EA even knows why they were origionally designed that way. They've been in game over 8 years, are you seriously saying that they were designed so that 8+ years in the future people could cap out pets that didn't even exist yet on them?

Trapping pets to gain is considered an exploit because the pet is in no danger, apart from the one person taking hits none of the other pets are in danger.

Edit:
I don't know exactly if it is 8 years or over, they seem to have always been in game from when I started playing.

2nd Edit:
Also, realise an important difference. YOU only need to worry about what is offically an exploit. Aside from that players can consider w/e they want exploits, because we actively take a stance on something, where as EA has lazy non specific rules that don't always apply which is why its always left to player interpretation.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Let's keep the personal stuff out please. Some posts have been removed.

 

[Old Man of UO]

oops... misread the post...

The reason shadow ele's were made not to take pet damage was to increase their difficulty to a specific player template. It's the earth-type elemental's special. All of the earth-type elementals above plain ol' dirt elemental have these specials.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Do you happen to remember what the dull copper elemental's special used to be? It was taken out, but I remember it being a nasty surprise back when I was a newbie

 

[Magdalene]

Hi there, Petra
*is watching too*

 

[Aboo]

oops... misread the post...

The reason shadow ele's were made not to take pet damage was to increase their difficulty to a specific player template. It's the earth-type elemental's special. All of the earth-type elementals above plain ol' dirt elemental have these specials.

What player template is it designed for?

 

[Kratos Aurion]

I don't see how anyone can see this as an "exploit"

The differences...

Golem training vs Shadow Ele pet training

Golem training (prior to the nerf)
-golems did not recieve nor give damage
-could be done within a guard zone
-could not be killed by other players unless done so by guild members
-alternatively, could be done with multiple characters at a single time (I use to have a screen shot of 9 archers training off a single golem)
*since the nerf, the only change is the +1 damage which is easily repaired by chivalry noble sacrafice, tinkering or gift of renewal like someone else suggested)

Shadow Ele training
-Ele does not receive damage but it does deal damage
-Cannot be easily done within a guard zone (anyone could call guards/kill it)
-Easily killed/attacked by other characters (unlike golems)
-Requires more effort to spawn

BOTH forms of training are highly susceptible to script training but the elemental training its self is not exploitive due to the fact it requires a person to actively heal their pet(s) where as golem training had no disadvantages.

They are now both on the same level. You must heal your golem to keep golem training and you must heal your pet to keep pet training. No exploits here... move along kiddies.