Improving PvM loot

[Turdnugget]

We're not asking for an arty drop, or super leet item drop each time... just the chance of being able to loot such an item. So people actually want to PvM apart from Champion Spawns and Doom.

Lich Lords used to be a viable source of power/vanquishing weapons. You ran the risk of being killed by Pk's or stolen from by thieves. Now LL's are just too measly to even go after except when you have to at Undead Spawns.

Lower the loot amount per corpse, raise the intensities. Higher end creatures should drop higher end stuff, more often than they do. Bump up the forgotten oldschool leet mobs with more hps and better loot.

Please.

 

[Old Man of UO]

...

Have items beyond a certain threshold (say 400% total intensity) drop as "unidentified" (and unequipable), requiring high item ID to make usable. (gives the "oh, I found something!" sensation with a later "well, what is it?" end to the hunt)

Now this is really good!

We're not asking for an arty drop, or super leet item drop each time... just the chance of being able to loot such an item. So people actually want to PvM apart from Champion Spawns and Doom.

Exactly... I've gone to Lost Lands recently looking for wood... the echos are deafening! No one there, and no reason to really go there.

Ilshenar now has people, but mostly for the champ spawns. Shame? Empty. The best parts of UO are deserted. Bring life back to them. Mini-boss spawns when a camp of lizard men are killed... they get tougher if killed too quickly. All of that can be and has been done. Expand it to all of the unused lands.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Have items beyond a certain threshold (say 400% total intensity) drop as "unidentified" (and unequipable), requiring high item ID to make usable. (gives the "oh, I found something!" sensation with a later "well, what is it?" end to the hunt)

Now this I really like!

Ever find a "key" on a corpse? Perhaps a "brain" or "liver" or some other organ. Those could be used to trigger some other event, such as spawning a special creature for those in the party or immediate vicinity. Maybe the key would unlock a special treasure chest yet to be found, or boost the level of a chest, even a level 6. Dark Fathers spawning as the treasure chest pops? Pirate ships that spawn around you while doing an SOS? LOL That would be awesome!

Oh I agree, "trigger" loot should definitely be added, however at the same time, I think we really need to see a big change in the normal loot drops to bring back the "special" feel of it as well.

I'm just putting forward why I think that current monster loot has NOT been "special" in regards to magic items... and that's mainly because there are simply too many dropping that they've lost their meaning.

The bigger point that I initially brought up in my first rundown is that you have to address MANY areas of UO just to address the "magic item drop" issue... PvM balance itself, loot tables, mods and intensities, Treasure Chests (and SOS chests), and so on.

 

[Maplestone]

Well, the lost lands are rather hard on KR-users like me with systems that are borderline (I think there's some problem with uneven terrain). But yes, it probably could use some unheaval on the Tram side that made it more unique.

I still have a mage who still hunts liches in covetous (I'm not sure why, just force of reflex). I haven't used shame much since the Book of Truth event (it was my favourite spot because I was on a little gardening kick and gathering fertile dirt from elementals).

I'm always a fan of little adventure-triggering systems and minibosses to add more texture to low-end hunting so that a player who never quite gets the hang of training or min/maxing can still feel entertained during the long months meandering towards GM skill.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

But yes, it probably could use some unheaval on the Tram side that made it more unique.


Absolutely... although I have to say that if you get KR running smoothly, T2A/Lost Lands looks SO much more natural in KR than it does in any former client. It just needs a bit of a content boost at the moment.

 

[Old Man of UO]

...
The bigger point that I initially brought up in my first rundown is that you have to address MANY areas of UO just to address the "magic item drop" issue... PvM balance itself, loot tables, mods and intensities, Treasure Chests (and SOS chests), and so on.

Lots to balance with any change, but you have to start somewhere. With no change, everything gets stagnant and people leave. SA will interest people in the new content, while the old content will continue to stagnate. Make lots of little changes, rather than huge sweeping changes and it will be easier to balance.

I think I missed a point that you were trying to make earlier, about the number of MODS. Were you saying to drop the number of MODS on an item in loot, but keep the overall intensity where it is? For example, instead of 5 MODS getting 300+ intensity, have 3 or 4 mods to share intensity? I think that would work, especially with the addition of imbuing.

 

[Maplestone]

Oh - a point that I meant to make: I feel it's important that crafted goods are better than monster loot, which in some ways renders the entire discussion about quantity/quality somewhat moot ... I feel monster-drop items should be there for flavour and as materials/ingrediants or as replacement gear for people who, for whatever reason, cannot find/afford crafters.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Neither.

Take each individual mod (Let's say for example Luck).

Instead of having values from 1 Luck through 100 Luck giving you 100 possible outcomes on a given roll for the mod (adjusted by max possible value of course), you tier them into 5 levels... 20, 40, 60, 80, 100.

You then do the same for each mod that has a mod range larger than 5.

Then you apply that to the rolls as necessary.

So a Level 1 tier item would have 20 Luck, Level 2 tier would have 40 and so on.

You would retain the current possible mods on an item structure, but you'd ditch the possibility of something like:

A Ring
Luck 1
Damage Increase 1%
Dex Increase 1
Physical Resist 3%

Instead you'd get a little bit better quality on the lower end, but retain the rarity of the upper end (which is enhanced by dropping the quantity of items as a whole).

Obviously mods like Mage Armor, Night Sight, etc that are "boolean" would remain boolean.

For certain mods, you would then rebalance them within the 5 tier system (one of the ways the old non-number based system was better than the current was the they could go in and tweak the damage increase involved in a Vanquishing weapon and it would still remain and Vanq weapon (albeit with a higher or lower number based on the rebalance)). You could then return to the older system of descriptions (maybe have that tie into Item ID as well.

One final thing... Slayers.

Personally, I would ditch all non-super slayers (aside possibly from the oddball slayers on ML talismen) and make super slayers the only slayers in the game, but raise their drop rate to compensate (not as high as the normal slayers though, but definitely more than their current drop rates).

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Oh - a point that I meant to make: I feel it's important that crafted goods are better than monster loot, which in some ways renders the entire discussion about quantity/quality somewhat moot ... I feel monster-drop items should be there for flavour and as materials/ingrediants or as replacement gear for people who, for whatever reason, cannot find/afford crafters.

I think you're going to see monster loot become one of three things in SA:

1. Templates: Beginning items to be embued and enhanced for a final product

2. Material for Embueing

3. Recycled for Resources

Based on level of mods and how the mods compliment each other on the particular item.

 

[Old Man of UO]

...

One final thing... Slayers.

Personally, I would ditch all non-super slayers (aside possibly from the oddball slayers on ML talismen) and make super slayers the only slayers in the game, but raise their drop rate to compensate (not as high as the normal slayers though, but definitely more than their current drop rates).

Okay, I understand what you are saying about the tier mod intensities. That would help get rid of the +1 LRC bonuses and what not.

However, on the slayers I would go the other way, get rid of super slayers. I just think they were a bad idea that just narrows the useful weapons too much. But either change would be better than the current state of slayers.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Oh - a point that I meant to make: I feel it's important that crafted goods are better than monster loot, which in some ways renders the entire discussion about quantity/quality somewhat moot ... I feel monster-drop items should be there for flavour and as materials/ingrediants or as replacement gear for people who, for whatever reason, cannot find/afford crafters.

The last part of your statement is why I think we should have an equal chance at equal loot on monsters, with equal probability. Right now, the script crafters are winning and unbalancing too much of the game. Players who don't have a crafter should be able to have a way to get the good stuff, too.

 

[Maplestone]

Players who don't have a crafter should be able to have a way to get the good stuff, too.

*cough*powerscrolls*cough*

*whistles innocently and looks away*

(I don't know what to say about scripters ... I haven't encountered any lately, but I've not been competing with them either ... I have to admit that for the past year I've sort of dropped out of the game's economy for everything but a couple of less-exciting powerscrolls and the occasional auction item in exchange for hand-gathered gold and whatever entry-level gear vanishes off my vendor ... whether or scripters, powergames or soloists are to blame, there's little I enjoy getting that other people enjoy buying, so I am my own little economy for the most part)

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I've been doing pretty much the same thing myself although it's generally based around smithing BODs.

Since they let you get a new BOD when you turn a filled one in, I think that's made the system a LOT better for the actual player and less for the scriptor (although KR does help on the crafting end to fill deeds). So my activities cycle between:

- Mining runs in Cove Fel (for metal and stone now that stone stacks)
- Killing ant lions, ant infiltrators, or creatures in Ilshenar mainly for gems (which are sold for gold, will start stocking when needed) and metal items (fills junk BODs or resmelts for iron to fill Exc "junk" deeds)
- Sorting items and filling BODs
- Fishing (now that I have KR's fishing macro figured out and have a couple of books I'm reading through)

It's mainly self-contained, but also in preparation for SA. I fully plan on specializing my main smithing character with embueing and look forward to working on it.

 

[Tina Small]

*cough*powerscrolls*cough*

*whistles innocently and looks away*

(I don't know what to say about scripters ... I haven't encountered any lately, but I've not been competing with them either ... I have to admit that for the past year I've sort of dropped out of the game's economy for everything but a couple of less-exciting powerscrolls and the occasional auction item in exchange for hand-gathered gold and whatever entry-level gear vanishes off my vendor ... whether or scripters, powergames or soloists are to blame, there's little I enjoy getting that other people enjoy buying, so I am my own little economy for the most part)

Maplestone, can you be a bit more explicit please? I don't understand your cryptic comment of "powerscrolls." I think you're trying to say that monster loot should primarily be used as a resource point for crafters and folks who don't have crafters should depend on fighting for and selling powerscrolls to make the gold to buy good embued items from crafters.

Is that what you're trying to say or did I really misinterpret your post??

 

[HD2300]

...Since they let you get a new BOD when you turn a filled one in, I think that's made the system a LOT better for the actual player and less for the scriptor

Scriptors can get 7 chars x 23 hrs x 30 shards = 4830 blacksmithing bods per account per day, in addition to 4830 tailor bods (or 19 BRKs) per account per day unattended.

 

[Maplestone]

I was trying to quietly point out that we players who restrict our playstyle have to face the consequences of that choice: dependency on others. But I was trying to point it out it in a way that wouldn't light the usual flamewars.

Idealistic, I believe that a pure crafter should experience as fulfilling and useful a role in the game as a pure monster-hunter: have fighters fight the mightiest monsters, have crafters craft the mightiest equipment.

Getting them to coexist in an economy is hard ... not because of scripting or duping or powergaming directly, but because a free market rewards efficiency, not fun. The most rewarding parts of the game economy will tend to be the ones that are the least fun (that is to say, has the least people playing it). Having everything good drop from monsters is the easy way out because then you just treat all non-combat professions wither away as mules/role-play and the "economy" is just trading whatever RNG did or didn't provide.

I just wanted to point out that the neigh-extinct village blacksmith needs to kept in mind whenever we get talking about loot inflation.

 

[Old Man of UO]

... I just wanted to point out that the neigh-extinct village blacksmith needs to kept in mind whenever we get talking about loot inflation.

I don't have an answer for that. The thing about crafting is you get to choose what item to receive while looting is random. It's a balancing act for the economy to satisfy both crafters and gatherers, err... hunters. The balance has swung both ways and is now heavily favored towards the crafter, and will swing ever farther that way with imbuing. Loot needs some love to catch up. Once people have worked up their imbue'rs then low and mid level loot will have no use once again.

As far as the village blacksmith, that died when we got forges and anvils for our homes. The smith had no reason to travel to town for crafting any more. This is off topic, but how about putting +10 skill anvils in towns only to attract the village smith there once again?

 

[rwek]

How about adjusting item enhancement?


You get a pair of leather pants from doom. 20 LRC 15 5 5 5 5 and enhance them = junk still.

 

[Mistura]

Some bloody good ideas/points contained within this thread. I really do hope one dev takes note and passes the good ideas onto his fellow devs at a dev conference of some kind...

 

[Old Man of UO]

SOMEDAY, I would also like to see:
Armor
Leather Armor found only on leathery things and leather users: lizardmen, savages
Bone armor found on bony things: undead, spiders
Scale and Plate armor found on humanoids: cyclops, ettins, trolls
Magic jewelry and wands found on spellcasters: mages, titans, lichs, matriarchs, etc.
Leaf armor on: pixies, Meer mages, etc.
Hide armor on: ratmen, meer warriors
Woodland armor on woody things: reapers
to name a few but not all examples

Weapons
Metal blades and bashing things on swords and club users: cyclops, minotaurs, lizardmen, savages, etc.
Bows found on bow uers: Juka Lords, ratmen archers, etc.

Then, some time in the future add specific properties to armor such as +5 DCI to undead and - 5 DCI to humanoids on all bone armor. Make it so you don't want to use the same suit all the time... Umm, like I currently do!