So which one are you?
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Poll - Do you know someone who uses illegal 3rd party program?
- Thread starter DuttyD
- Start date
- Watchers 2
So which one are you?
L
Lord GOD(GOD)
Guest
The majority of people writing and using scripts are unaware that there is less effort involved in doing it without.
For example there are 6 scripts for working Bushdio all of which contain 100's of lines. Yet all you need to do is make a macro for Lightning Strike, or Last Spell.
There are 12 scripts for working med.
It defys belief that people think it's in any way faster, I had some idiot party me and try to give me a golem training script once... wtf is there to script with golem training? "It makes it faster dude!" ... What faster than swinging the weapon at the cap? No, it doesn't. An obvious scam by another oblivious scripter.
Anyone who takes something as simple as hitting last spell and turns it into a 100+ line script with 50+ lines of version updates hasn't thought through the problem to soloution ratio.
I resent that statement. its like saying All PvPers are cheats, I dont think scripting skill useing UoA, E$@#UO, RA#$*, is cheating to me cheating is useing med scripts,targeting scripts, resource farming,gold farming scripts speedhacking and use of bugs/exploits. Now its true that Items in game that have any real value is set By the PvPers a cincture/Inquis would not be worth as much if it had no value in PvP. Dupeing is caused by people who sell gold and items for $ and most of those people PvM only.
A long time ago it was legal to macro skills unattended but during those times 56k was considered a fast connection there were Bandwith issues for OSI so they said we cant do it not because they though it was cheating but freeing up some bandwith on the servers. Now days bandwith issues are hardly a problem with todays tech.
Gaining a skill unattended should not matter to anyones game reguardless if that person is there or not they would get the same gains either way. I mean seriously Whats the difference in Whackin a golem and sitting there watching a movie or wacking a golem and cutting your grass/ going to the store? not a damn thing.
Now on the PRS that I play (alot more fun then EA atm Pre AoS Pub 15-16 era, and 20x the people then pacific, no tram) some things you would think are cheats like a better UOAssist kind of tool, Treehack, and the ability to macro skill all you want unattended useing the (UOassist kind of tool only, it loops)are all legal keep in mind there is no tram or private houseing, GZ isnt safe either with chance 3 reds gateing in and landing FS, MS at the same time. do it at your own risk. The famous scripting tool is banned from that server and can get you banned on sight, speed hacking will get you banned on sight, Use of any bug or exploit (although very rare its pretty much a bug free server) will get you banned on sight, unattended resource/gold scripters get banned on sight no 3 day thing either, 1st time the account is done. On this server I use these things, Treehack, The other uoassist kind of program, and i macro skills whenever, where ever I want. I keep a 2nd client just for that shard and I keep a clean client just for EA just because I can use those on EA, i wont its against the rules of the game.
I answered yes because I use a program that is technically considered illegal simply because it's not "uopro" approved. It's a house decorating app that allows you to just click a button to perform house functions like locking down, releasing, securing, etc. Even so I only use it when I plan to do a lot of redecorating and don't want to keep typing out the commands I need over and over again.
As far as scripting programs and the other more 'traditional' cheat programs, I never touch them. I agree with everyone above who said that scripting a skill makes the achievement feel hollow. I like knowing that I put forth the effort and accomplished my goal. Like someone said above, it's not about the destination, it's about the journey.
As far as scripting programs and the other more 'traditional' cheat programs, I never touch them. I agree with everyone above who said that scripting a skill makes the achievement feel hollow. I like knowing that I put forth the effort and accomplished my goal. Like someone said above, it's not about the destination, it's about the journey.
There is an outright LIAR in this thread. I've personally been by his crafters house on many occasions at all hours of the day. He's been crafting away effortlessly. He knows who he is, so we'll leave it at that...
I'll give someone the shard/location of his house, and you can check it out for yourself sometime...
I'll give someone the shard/location of his house, and you can check it out for yourself sometime...
Safe to say if it's not on this list, it's considered illegal.
D
Dryke GL
Guest
No, I'm sorry - those statements are not synonymous. Consider: If group 'A' is PvPers, Group 'B' is PvMers, and Group 'C' is cheaters - then what Basara was saying is that most of group C also belongs to group A. This does NOT equate to 'most (or all) of group A belongs to group C'. In fact, it is entirely probable that only a small part of group A (pvpers) are also group C (cheaters). It also follows that anyone in group C who is not also in group A must then by default be in group B - thus, there are PvMers who cheat as well.
That is what Basara was saying. No reason to be offended by the truth.
The problem with this statement is that what 'cheating is to you' is utterly irrelevant. Cheating is, by definition, doing something that is prohibited by the rules. Thus, the use of any third party program that is not approved for use with UO equates to cheating.
There is a reason UoA is approved. The developers have the opportunity to review any proposed changes and determine which are merely 'assisting' players and which are crossing the line into 'playing FOR the players'.
What is the factual basis for this conclusion (that most dupers are PvM only)? It appears to be an opinion.
I played since Beta (albeit with a large period of absence in the middle). As far as I remember, if a GM caught you macroing unattended in your house - even back before factions, before 'murder counts' - you were busted. Was there a period of time in the middle there where unattended macroing was actually legal? How sad if there was. In any event, it is clearly not legal now; thus, any argument based upon that premise is invalid.
This argument has been beat more times than those golems you mentioned. The simple fact is that the more people there are in the game with a particular skill (or item), the less valuable that skill (or item) is in the overall game. Simple supply and demand. Thus, if you can get your skill by turning on a program and then leaving the house for the day, you will get your skill far easier (and faster) than I will if I sit at my computer and try to do it myself; you did no work for your skill, but you have the same result as I do for all my hard work. Thus, all my effort is cheapened by your cheating.
The ultimate cheat: outright theft. Why bother to put in all the hard work to create your own game when you can just steal someone else's work and modify it to suit your own tastes.
Sort of like stealing your neighbor's car and slapping on some new paint and custom rims. Doesn't make it yours - doesn't make it 'okay'.
I think you sort of destroyed your own position there, Kaleb.
Because only those programs that are approved are legal; everything else is illegal. Process of elimination.
You can find a list of the approved programs on the main UO web pages.
You do understand that you can set a one button hot key macro, right in UO, that will do basically the same thing, right?
Without an unapproved Third Party app?
I am asking sincerely...not trying to be antagonistic, like usual
Yeah, I know that, but I already have macro's bound to every function key on my keyboard for all my characters plus others that use Ctrl & Alt. I really don't think I could remember many more macro's as it is, and truth be told, it's much more convenient to just use the app.You do understand that you can set a one button hot key macro, right in UO, that will do basically the same thing, right?
Without an unapproved Third Party app?
I am asking sincerely...not trying to be antagonistic, like usual
What position is that? I run scripts to gain skill I loop my UO assist to gain skill? So ? Like I stated if im in my house clicking everytime or in my house unattended with a macro going Im going to max my skill. In no way or shape does it hurt your game.
LOL not hardly, How many years have we asked for a PRE AOS tramless server? Has EA delivered? I shouldnt have to play a game with everything on easy mode I hate everything tram and AOS represents it makes me sick its not UO, Siege isnt that far off. so instead some genius out there created the very thing that made UO the greatest game on the market. PvM is as exciting as it was pre UO:R. There is no tram but a majority of players there PvM only. There is balance and very few bugs almost none. I still Pay EA $30 a month even though I dont use their service a whole lot anymore. I pay EA to play the UO I liked and loved even if they dont run the server. If anything its a slap in the Devs faces someone who dosnt charge for their service can make a server that people who are getting Payed Very good $ by EA cant do.
H
Harb
Guest
I voted no, as I'm certain certain none of the dozen or so players whom I personally know in the "real world" have or ever would use said programs in the game. But the question itself is a bit more complicated than that.
The first thing is deciding what defines a third party program. I think there's still a couple UOA (+) like programs out there, they'd certainly be included in anyone's definition. But then there's also a series of downloads for scripts and "tools," I'd personally inlcude those, but not everyone would. After one defines what's included, then each of us looks at application. What is nefarious; unattended training or resource gathering, stealing or IDOC activities, PvM "survival" scripts, the slew of things occuring in the PvP environment, duping, etc? For me personally, unless someone gains an advantage over someone else, I tend not to be so concerned about what someone else may be doing. Consequently, I've never become irritated by other folks training, resource gathering, or even "outperforming" me in Doom back in the day due to scripts - I was in no way in any form of "competition" with them. Conversely, it's been infuriating over the years to see IDOC activities, artifact camping scripts, dupes, and what 3d party programs and scripts have done to the PvP environment. The reason for the irritation and frustration of course is the sense of competitiveness in these areas of play. Some of it has worked itself out of the system over the years, some aspects have successfully been adressed by Dev. For me, the two remaining areas of concern are duping and PvP cheats. I don't know if duping occurs via an in-game or external mechanism, so I'll leave that one alone, but will comment on PvP cheats.
PvP is an area I've been in/ out of since the game began, mostly out these days due to observations - which have direct bearing on your original question. You really can't be "certain" in a larger PvP fight, but in the smaller fights, for anyone with experience it's not really difficult to tell if an opponent uses some form or combination of external mechanisms. In PvP, at least over the past few years on my shard, you won't find solo or small confrontations where the other player doesn't cheat. This has caused many of us to simply loose interest. When the encounter is juvenile, there isn't any conversation to speak of. When more mature, it's amazing to hear what can be said following a fight regarding the necessity of using 3d party aps, openly discussed. It causes me to take a lot of what is said on these boards with a grain of salt. Not everyone cheats, and not all those who do are actually "bad" folks, in fact I've run into some pretty damn decent ones, even "red" and even cheating. But gleam what you will from the observations themselves. Again, for me personally, there simply is no thrill or competitive spirit in this context. Too bad really!
The first thing is deciding what defines a third party program. I think there's still a couple UOA (+) like programs out there, they'd certainly be included in anyone's definition. But then there's also a series of downloads for scripts and "tools," I'd personally inlcude those, but not everyone would. After one defines what's included, then each of us looks at application. What is nefarious; unattended training or resource gathering, stealing or IDOC activities, PvM "survival" scripts, the slew of things occuring in the PvP environment, duping, etc? For me personally, unless someone gains an advantage over someone else, I tend not to be so concerned about what someone else may be doing. Consequently, I've never become irritated by other folks training, resource gathering, or even "outperforming" me in Doom back in the day due to scripts - I was in no way in any form of "competition" with them. Conversely, it's been infuriating over the years to see IDOC activities, artifact camping scripts, dupes, and what 3d party programs and scripts have done to the PvP environment. The reason for the irritation and frustration of course is the sense of competitiveness in these areas of play. Some of it has worked itself out of the system over the years, some aspects have successfully been adressed by Dev. For me, the two remaining areas of concern are duping and PvP cheats. I don't know if duping occurs via an in-game or external mechanism, so I'll leave that one alone, but will comment on PvP cheats.
PvP is an area I've been in/ out of since the game began, mostly out these days due to observations - which have direct bearing on your original question. You really can't be "certain" in a larger PvP fight, but in the smaller fights, for anyone with experience it's not really difficult to tell if an opponent uses some form or combination of external mechanisms. In PvP, at least over the past few years on my shard, you won't find solo or small confrontations where the other player doesn't cheat. This has caused many of us to simply loose interest. When the encounter is juvenile, there isn't any conversation to speak of. When more mature, it's amazing to hear what can be said following a fight regarding the necessity of using 3d party aps, openly discussed. It causes me to take a lot of what is said on these boards with a grain of salt. Not everyone cheats, and not all those who do are actually "bad" folks, in fact I've run into some pretty damn decent ones, even "red" and even cheating. But gleam what you will from the observations themselves. Again, for me personally, there simply is no thrill or competitive spirit in this context. Too bad really!
S
sandersism
Guest
In my last guild, pretty much every person that pvp'ed used a 3rd party program to speed themselves up. They named it and linked each other to it. It was common knowledge that to keep up with another well known guild, you would have to run on. They also shared scripts to train certain skills, scripts to automatically keep yourself healed (chugging pots/bandies/apples etc.), shared scripts to do certain attack combos with one button (example: hop off of your pet, dismount the other player via bola or special move, all kill your pet on the target if successful or hop back on your pet if unsuccessful) and shared locations where you could macro unattended without being found. It was a fairly large guild.
That's just one example I could give you from the last couple months... there are quite a few more.
I just came back to UO and I don't remember these things being this prevalent when I quit... as a result I've rarely played since I've come back and will probably be quitting again soon enough.
note: I'm not a person that cries "hacks" all the time. I almost never accuse anyone... ever. The only reason I know about these is because I actually heard them discussing it for days on end.
That's just one example I could give you from the last couple months... there are quite a few more.
I just came back to UO and I don't remember these things being this prevalent when I quit... as a result I've rarely played since I've come back and will probably be quitting again soon enough.
note: I'm not a person that cries "hacks" all the time. I almost never accuse anyone... ever. The only reason I know about these is because I actually heard them discussing it for days on end.
I cannot count the number of people on my fingers and toes who have used illegal 3rd party programs to train skills. Have any of these folks really effected anyone elses game play by training up there skills???? The anwser is no. Some may not agree that "Macroing" up your skills is the right thing too do. That you should gain through normal game play. That is there right to think that. I beleive that you play a game to have fun. Some play just for the enjoyment of finishing a characater...seeing what adventures they experience and friends they make along the way. I have done that multiple times on multiple shards. Other play to be able to "Beat" the game. Get the biggest, baddest suit out there, or have the most rares. Other play to "PvP". Everyone plays a little different and some folks despise training up skills. I say if you wanna train your skill up to get to your "gameplay spot" then so be it. You are not hurting me any by training your character to 120 Fencing or any skill for that matter, be it training it attended or training it unattended. I do have an issue with people who used 3rd Party programs to farm resources, runics, or gold farm.
Your description of your last guild does prompt two very obvious questions... Did they do anything for themselves and could they actually PvP manually? What a lazy way to PvP!
"Look! I can PvP with 1 hand!" *groans* Yeah, and what are you doing with the other... Ok, we don't wanna know...
Especially using another guild as the excuse for cheating. I hope the GMs start to ban players for this sort of cheating, it's horribly overdue. And if that means whole guilds, well so be it. Maybe we'll need to recruit a new generation of replacement PvPers who can hit the macro keys by themselves. I can hear my old guild mates turning in their UO graves at how bad it's gotten.
Wenchy
D
DuttyD
Guest
I agree. Thats why I said this poll is worthless. I wish I could edit it.
D
DuttyD
Guest
This poll was a response to Draconi's post
"That leaves me to believe (and im sure many others are on this same boat) that the reason you guys havent mass banned the third party program users is the loss of cash flow this would cause."
"That leaves me to believe (and im sure many others are on this same boat) that the reason you guys havent mass banned the third party program users is the loss of cash flow this would cause."
A better question would have been to ask if "Do you know anyone who does not use an illegal 3rd party program" Honestly..I only know of a couple..or maybe one.
I dont use any third party progams. I also only have one character with any skills above 115, and he only has two at 115.
I find repetitive clicking and unattended play to be boring.
R
RichDC
Guest
All i have toi say is look at the percentages...ive left this post for about 3 days, and its gone from 100% yes to 75% yes...must admit im surprised i expected it to even oiut a lil more,
But no obvioulsy cheating is rampant in this game because it goes unchecked
!
But no obvioulsy cheating is rampant in this game because it goes unchecked
!
D
Dryke GL
Guest
It absolutely hurts my game. When I play, I sit at my computer. I can only gain skill if I am actively present. Do I use UOA? Yep. But UOA has a limit on how 'big' of a 'loop' you can use - that's why it's approved - and that is the difference between 'attended' and 'unattended'. Therefore, if I am washing my dishes/doing my laundry/playing with my kids/away at work - I am not gaining skill.
You, however, can turn on a nifty little program and essentially skip over all the work of actually sitting there and playing your character. You can do whatever you want while the computer does all the work for you.
You keep insisting that this doesn't hurt me - but you do so only by ignoring the obvious fact that in the end, instead of only one person with a particular skill there are now two. If it's a crafting skill, you can now compete with me for a share of the market (or, at the very least, you won't have to buy anything I make because you will just make it yourself). If it's a 'combat' skill of some sort, you can now compete with me for spots in a group, or for resources from a kill; at the very least, you can take that character out and farm for gold and items that will further dilute the overall market.
If you got your skill doing the same hard work that I did by obeying the rules, then I'd say you earned it and the competition is fair. BUT - because you break the rules and get your skills far easier than I do, the competition is not fair and you didn't earn it. You will be able to spend far more of your actual 'play' time out playing - or perhaps even moving on to build up another skill - than I will, because I'm using my time at the computer to build up a skill while you are doing all your skill building while you're off watching reruns of Barney.
The fact that their product doesn't perfectly suit your demand does NOT justify outright theft of that product. The argument that the folks with the unauthorized shards 'don't charge for their service' is also totally flawed; it is an undeniable fact that many of the people who play on those 'shards' do not also pay EA a monthly fee, and it is a certainty that those who run such shards have not payed EA for a license to run them.
Theft is theft, plain and simple. You can rationalize it all you want by complaining about 'poor service', but in the end none of that is a justification for theft - just a poor excuse.
