Poll - Do you know someone who uses illegal 3rd party program?

[DuttyD]

This poll was a response to Draconi's post

"That leaves me to believe (and im sure many others are on this same boat) that the reason you guys havent mass banned the third party program users is the loss of cash flow this would cause."

Ah, I'll address this directly then. I've seen this come up one too many times I'm afraid.

No, it's not true. These kinds of exploiters make up such a tiny minority that their complete disappearance from the game would have only positive consequences for the game.

We've seen what happens to our subscriptions when as we take firm action - good things. Our challenge is working towards the effective, global solutions that level the playing field for all, and its not something that can happen overnight.

But, just to reiterate, if a cheater thinks they can justify their actions by giving us a little money, they're dead wrong. For every cheater there are more honest players who can't/won't compete with them, and the honest players' loss is everyone's loss.

 

[Farsight]

If anyone answers "no" they're either dishonest or naive.

 

[Viper09]

If anyone answers "no" they're either dishonest or naive.

Or they really just don't know anyone who does...
I suspect people who do, but suspicion doesn't prove anything.

People claim others use 3rd party programs so much that sometimes it just gets ridiculous. They lose to someone so instead of accepting a loss they just claim their opponent was cheating. I steal someones powerscroll, they get mad, they claim I cheated. Etc, etc.

So I'm not voting yes if I just suspect someone cheating or hear it from someone else.

 

[Mistura]

If anyone answers "no" they're either dishonest or naive.

Bang on the money!

 

[Wilde1]

trouble with this poll, is that there are 2 types of illegal programs. I don't know anyone who uses pvp cheats, for example. I do know people who use short scripts to maintain their garden, or other pvm tasks (won't mention the program name).

Im not sure the player community has as much complaint about folks using a PVM assists as compared to PVP cheats. Someone wants to use a program to loop their UOAssist macro, I dont have a problem with it as long as they sit at the keyboard while they do it. Someone wants to use an illegal program to kill me unfairly, that I got problems with, hehe.

Redo the poll, IMO.

 

[DCMember]

If I saw them, but I don't know the person in this video how am I supposed to vote?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8cXyqtl0NU

D

 

[Connor_Graham]

If anyone answers "no" they're either dishonest or naive.

Or honest players tend to attract other honest players and they honestly don't know anyone personally that cheats.

No need to be such a pessimist.

 

[Petrify]

If you don't use a certain scripting program to train skills, then you are either a liar or you have carpel tunnel syndrome.

 

[Connor_Graham]

If you don't use a certain scripting program to train skills, then you are either a liar or you have carpel tunnel syndrome.

Or neither. I've trained every single skill I have on every single character and over 20 soulstones by manually doing every click on my mouse. AND I managed to do it without getting carpal tunnel.

Geez. Such a defeatist attitude here this morning.

 

[kennykilleduo]

No , but one question if all were LEGAL( and safe) , wouldnt it level the playing field for all??

 

[Old Man of UO]

No , but one question if all were LEGAL( and safe) , wouldnt it level the playing field for all??

Oh sure... I would turn on my computer in the morning and let it run a script program all day just to play with all the other bots. It would keep my computer from getting lonely.
Me, I would just get jealous and unplug my computer.

So, what's the point then?

 

[Petra Fyde]

1. It is against Stratics RoC to name these programmes. I will be removing any not edited in the next couple of minutes.

2. How would I know who, among my acquaintances used such things unless they bragged about it?

3. Petrify is quite wrong. I trained all my characters without resorting to such programmes, and my first 7 x gm crafter was trained without UOAssist either, no carpal tunnel involved, just the common sense to stop after a reasonable period of time and not keep training for hours on end.

4. The reason most of these programmes are not allowed is because they allow people to progress in the game without actually playing it. If you're AFK, you're not playing!

5. Many people accused of cheating are doing no such thing. There are people who, when they see something they don't understand, instead of asking 'how did you do that' assume that the other person is cheating. My husband has been accused of having an 'infinite mana hack' - 120 focus & medi, casting fire balls on DF? 'ability to heal when mortalled' - that 'hack' is called 'having bushido on the char'.

 

[Old Man of UO]

The thing about people who believe this...

If anyone answers "no" they're either dishonest or naive.

Bang on the money!

If you don't use a certain scripting program to train skills, then you are either a liar or you have carpel tunnel syndrome.

... are just using the excuse "other people cheat, so I have to also just to compete" to justify cheating. You might be surprised how much fun it can be just playing au natural.

 

[Connor_Graham]

You might be surprised how much fun it can be just playing au natural.

Eh, I tried that once.


My cat jumped in my lap and I found out how much fun it can NOT be while playing au naturale.

 

[DCMember]

If I saw them, but I don't know the person in this video how am I supposed to vote?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8cXyqtl0NU

D

To respect the request of rephrasing of my above post:
How should I vote if I witnessed the person that I do not know irl in the above video 'doing what they were doing' for over two hours?

I realize this may cause a new poll to follow asking if I have a life, but please one question at a time.

D

 

[Old Man of UO]

Eh, I tried that once.


My cat jumped in my lap and I found out how much it can NOT be while playing au naturale.

OOO... hrmmm.... Connor, I MEANT playing without cheating! NOT umm, err... nude. Heh... perhaps you got what you deserved?

 

[DevilsOwn]

yeah, put me on the 'dishonest or naive' side of things.... don't even use assist, just click at the sucker til it's done.... course, takes me a good deal longer to get to the end of things, yes, but I enjoy the ride

 

[Old Man of UO]

yeah, put me on the 'dishonest or naive' side of things.... don't even use assist, just click at the sucker til it's done.... course, takes me a good deal longer to get to the end of things, yes, but I enjoy the ride

Actually using a skill teaches you how to use it, especially when you run into a new situation or get into trouble. How much can you really learn about melee skills while bashing a golem in Luna?

 

[Wenchkin]

If you don't use a certain scripting program to train skills, then you are either a liar or you have carpel tunnel syndrome.

Rubbish.

Just shows how silly the pro-cheat players can be when you get lines like this....

It shows how dumb the average cheat is if they can't even play UO without injury, and that's their best excuse for it

Honest players don't all have carpal tunnel or lie about how they train. They just know how to play the game properly and follow the rules. And some have the brains to know how to do that without hurting ourselves or being so bad that we have to cheat.

Wenchy

 

[Old Man of UO]

Rubbish.

It shows how dumb the average cheat is if they can't even play UO without injury, and that's their best excuse for it

Honest players don't all have carpal tunnel or lie about how they train. They just know how to play the game properly and follow the rules. And some have the brains to know how to do that without hurting ourselves or being so bad that we have to cheat.

Wenchy

Heh... that is actually funny!

 

[Farsight]

Responding to ... the general sentiment:

1. I don't currently cheat, any implication that I do is just an implication. But I will admit to having used UOA before it was approved.
2. I don't condone cheating, but saying that the people I play with don't cheat would be just putting up the blinders. I know most of them don't, but I know (for an absolute fact) that some of them either have or do.
3. You'd be surprised at who uses what programs. Even in the non-powergaming circles, there is more than a fair share of illegal programs being used. Some of the people who cry loudest against cheats (not just on the board, but through other media as well) are themselves cheaters. That isn't being pessimistic, it's just a simple fact.
4. That is not an excuse to go out and get your own cheating program. Seriously, don't. It doesn't enhance your game and it is a detriment to the games of the people with which you play.
5. Yes, I do have Repetitive Stress Disorder (aka Carpal Tunnel Syndrome). It doesn't stop me from clicking more. In fact, I wouldn't click less if I did use one of those programs, since actually playing the game is click-click-click just as much as training, if not more so than training.

 

[Nestorius]

The only people I know are on UHALL. I don't cheat, and I don't even have UO Assist installed on my new computer, but I'm getting damn well tempted trying to GM Arms Lore. If there is something outdated in this game, its the spending of hours pressing ONE button to raise a skill that conceptually make NO SENSE at all. What am I doing in-game when I am 'arms loring' my staff over and over again. How is this helping me be a better crafter? Its just a broken mechanic. And I can't even really use my crafter until its GM'd. So I give up and do GGS, which is silly. I miss Powerhour.

 

[Lord Drakelord]

Had to vote no as I don't know what the player in game has on his or her PC.

 

[Goodoljoe]

Well no,since if i actually know someone who uses ilegal programs,they wouldnt be so silly to go around spreading the word.They may use them,i just have no idea and probably never will..

 

[Sarsmi]

If anyone answers "no" they're either dishonest or naive.

Or honest players tend to attract other honest players and they honestly don't know anyone personally that cheats.

No need to be such a pessimist.

I met someone at an idoc and within 30 minutes they were telling me about this great program that let them run around and check houses for decay and not even have to do anything. That was the last idoc I camped, not that I was doing them so much last year anyways.

People are a lot more brazen about it because they know they can't be caught unless they are unattended, so a lot more people are cheating now. It's very sad, and it's one of the big reasons I stopped playing for several months.

 

[Sarsmi]

If you don't use a certain scripting program to train skills, then you are either a liar or you have carpel tunnel syndrome.

Neither here! and I've trained 3 tamers (well one on siege which really doesn't count). Why is there an assumption that there must be a threshold of repetition in a game that no one can play beyond? I can do repetitive things all day long, since I am extremely goal oriented. For me the pleasure comes in the achievement, and that would mean nothing to me if I had to cheat to accomplish it. It would ironically be a waste of time rather than a time saver, since I would gain no pleasure but would have still spent time cheating.

 

[MalagAste]

I used to know loads of people that used them..... I don't know them anymore.... those whom I play with either never mention it or don't use them... I teach folk to play how I play..... by actually playing the game..... it's tons more fun and... you get the opportunity to really get to know your characters... something you don't get by cheating.... not to mention all that repetition while playing cements in your moves... knowing exactly where your macro's and settings are is crucial to game play.....

Though I'll admit I never really know mine.... but then most folk don't play 40+ characters... I do get a tad confused from time to time depending on how many I've played in one day... But each and every one of my characters (who weren't finished when I got them)... I have worked their skills the natural way...

Most the folk I used to know who cheated frequently don't play anymore.... I suppose they got board... Cheaters never win.... even when they think they are... they grow board because the game is no longer challenging so they say but that's mostly because they took all the effort out of it and didn't really know what makes UO great.... It's not about the UBER L33TN3SS..... It's not about having all the gold or the stuff.... It's about the community.... about the friendships and about the exploration and adventure you can do as a community.... It's about building a world and living in it..... Its about losing yourself in the game and forgetting the RL ratrace for a few moments... That to me is what UO is about.... and it doesn't require cheats...

 

[Surgeries]

If you don't use a certain scripting program to train skills, then you are either a liar or you have carpel tunnel syndrome.

Or...as unbelievable as it may seem...

Some people just do not cheat in Video Games. Or in any games...even given a chance

Remember...objectivity is being able to see the other side from where a person sits, I figure...

Sorry to see you feel the need to cheat in a video game is justified by what the game requires of you, Petrify.

That is rather sad.

You don't bring your own Monopoly Money to a game, do you? After playing Monopoly SO many times...why would you actually need to roll dice, move around the board, or anything.

Just whip out your 1,000,000 Monopoly Money, and declare yourself the winner.

The nerve...people thinking you would actually PLAY Monopoly, after all those games you DID play.

I could go on, and give examples in life of competitions that aren't "Won" like a game of Monopoly...but if you don't get it now, it is likely your subjectivity will relegate you to a life of "Oh...this? It's not really "Cheating"...see...everyone does it!"

 

[Dragkiris]

I got accused of using a "hack" when I killed 7 trammys one day. They said my healing was way beyond the limit the game has whatever that means. But alas it was a simple 2/6 casting and alot of mini heals.

 

[Dragkiris]

If your not cheating your trying to hard and if you get caught your not trying hard enough!!!

/sarcasm

 

[Canucklehead73]

I voted yes simply because this dude I kinda knew could see my jewlery a couple years back...

As for carpal tunnel syndrome... No. But couple years back when I was playing UO pretty hardcore I got what I callec "preying mantis" syndrom, from being hunched over looking at my screen with my arms on my keybaord and mouse... The spot between my shoulder blades would get friggin sore after a while. LOL has to buy a chair with decent adjustable armrests

I trained all my chars up manually, although a few years back I got UOassist to bandage my healer, and also now use it to enable my mouse wheel for targeting.

 

[DuttyD]

Please lock thread.

I should of added another option and rephrased something, thus making this thread worthless

 

[DCMember]

Tamer Gone Wild - Video 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXos7oFnLg8

 

[Maplestone]

If anyone answers "no" they're either dishonest or naive.

Well, it wouldn't be the first time I was called naive and hopefully not the last.

I've even had a few times where I've set up a KR macro, mashed some keys and gone "yikes, that was way too fast, I'd better not use that" ... but I'm just a little eccentric

 

[Regi the wicked]

So how many people have fallen asleep at the computer with their finger on a macro button and woke thinking "great hopefully no one paged on me for nothing". I have fallen asleep at my computer several times trying to finish off some of the really boring skills. You know the ones. You have only a couple points and you think this shouldn't take too long. Next thing you know you wake and see disconnect for idle and have lots of random windows open from where your hand hit other keys. I have used uo assist, but don't use it much at all anymore. It is nice for training tailor, smith, and such, but after that the only thing I ever use it for in the selling agent if I have lots of stuff to unload.

 

[Dryke GL]

This post will only be mildly informative as the 'yes' group will include everyone who has actual 'court-worthy' evidence of the use of such programs as well as everyone who thinks someone is using said programs 'because there's no other explanation', etc.

A better way to run a poll like this would be to break it down into multiple selections (if that's possible with the polling engine...) to better define the answers. You could set it up something like this:

Do you know anyone who uses illegal third party programs?

1. Yes - because: a. They told me they did.
b. I overheard them talking about using them.
c. I have seen the programs running on their computer.

2. Yes - because I have witnessed in-game behavior that can only be explained by the use of such programs.

3. No.

 

[Wenchkin]

So how many people have fallen asleep at the computer with their finger on a macro button and woke thinking "great hopefully no one paged on me for nothing". I have fallen asleep at my computer several times trying to finish off some of the really boring skills. You know the ones. You have only a couple points and you think this shouldn't take too long. Next thing you know you wake and see disconnect for idle and have lots of random windows open from where your hand hit other keys. I have used uo assist, but don't use it much at all anymore. It is nice for training tailor, smith, and such, but after that the only thing I ever use it for in the selling agent if I have lots of stuff to unload.

Haven't fallen asleep at the computer, but my youngest little dog has caused me to die when I left my char hidden somewhere and she ran over the keyboard. I don't think "the dog sat on my keyboard" counts as a valid excuse for afk training though, so I advise moving the keyboard when you leave your seat

Wenchy

 

[Lord Drakelord]

Haven't fallen asleep at the computer, but my youngest little dog has caused me to die when I left my char hidden somewhere and she ran over the keyboard. I don't think "the dog sat on my keyboard" counts as a valid excuse for afk training though, so I advise moving the keyboard when you leave your seat

Wenchy

Grandkids that want to help grandpa also count as a valid excuse

 

[Faeryl]

I've trained every skill manually, no UOA, nothing. The worst I've done is with hiding, I'd use something to hold down the macro button. Usually doing that I'll pop a movie into my laptop, set it so I can see UO on one side and the movie on the other. I'm still there, I'll stop and answer if people talk to me, I just get tired of holding a button down.

I do know someone who uses illegal 3rd party programs, cause heck, he liked to brag about how much they help him look for idocs, fight, heal, train, etc. But besides him, I don't know anyone who use 'illegal' programs.

 

[Ender]

Yep, heard in Teamspeak.

And while scripting isn't necessary to gain skills, after training a ton of characters, it just gets majorly ****ing boring after the 10th warrior you've made, or whatever.

 

[Surgeries]

Neither here! and I've trained 3 tamers (well one on siege which really doesn't count). Why is there an assumption that there must be a threshold of repetition in a game that no one can play beyond? I can do repetitive things all day long, since I am extremely goal oriented. For me the pleasure comes in the achievement, and that would mean nothing to me if I had to cheat to accomplish it. It would ironically be a waste of time rather than a time saver, since I would gain no pleasure but would have still spent time cheating.

I like the way you think.

Perfectly Stated, Indeed.

 

[Kaleb]

yes. I do. Not on EA servers but on servers where its legal altho i tend to macro skills no matter what shard (11 years you get bored of training the skills). Now unattended resource/gold farmers need to be dealt with.

 

[Oriana]

I voted yes, but it's someone I no longer associate with do to the use of the programs. The group I play with on a regular basis don't or for the most part. Granted I may not know all they do, but for the most part it's as Conner says, honest players tend to attract honest players

 

[Lord Kynd]

If you don't use a certain scripting program to train skills, then you are either a liar or you have carpel tunnel syndrome.

i never have , thank you much
i perfer to do things the honest way and earn them.

but still i know several people who use things like loop programs, script programs ( there is more than one ),90% of the tools listed on strtics are not 'legal' per the UO pro program .

i've used UO rudder quite a few times actually, so i guess i cheated too since it is not a approved program.
UO assist and UO automap are approved .. have fun getting auto map now tho.

 

[AesSedai]

- I know I have busted several that were using mechanics beyond any possible UO or UOA method. That counts, right?

Personally - the last time I cheated in a game was when I was <10 years old; that's about the mentality I feel was necessary in order to excuse my actions as being harmless & not selfish. Well, aside from a few single player computer games; but most of those 'cheats' were basically 'easter eggs' that the programmers put in, perhaps to increase the longevity of one's enjoyment. You know, like how EA Games used to entice people to do such and such for 'free cheats' (or do they still try to make use of the term 'cheating' as a cheap buzz-word for 'game hints'?)...
See, cheating ruins the enjoyment of things, especially the reward from accomplishing things; unless you just have no other way to compete, other than rely on the crutch called: cheating.

Cheating is bad. Yes, even in games.

 

[Omnius]

Petra, unfortunately most players feel that skill gaining is highly unenjoyable in its current fashion and almost all skills are completely useless or give unsastisfactory results while unfinished and resultingly hate wasting hundreds of hours to gain skills during which time you consume hours you would prefer be toward enjoyment.

 

[5% Luck]

Or neither. I've trained every single skill I have on every single character and over 20 soulstones by manually doing every click on my mouse. AND I managed to do it without getting carpal tunnel.

Geez. Such a defeatist attitude here this morning.

 

[Basara]

Petra, unfortunately most players feel that skill gaining is highly unenjoyable in its current fashion and almost all skills are completely useless or give unsastisfactory results while unfinished and resultingly hate wasting hundreds of hours to gain skills during which time you consume hours you would prefer be toward enjoyment.

Except for the players who feel the exact opposite - that any game where you can get near-instant gratification in terms of skill gain feels hollow, and is in the long term, not fun to play at all.

Playing ANY open-ended game and enjoying it is in the Journey, not the destination. This is ESPECIALLY true for those who choose NOT to PvP - most of the skill-related cheating seems to be centered on getting characters ready for PvP (for that matter, much of the duping also ties into items for PvP - either items for PvPers to use, or items used to MAKE crafted PvP equipment where an artifact or event item can't fit the need)

There are really just two types of people in the game -
Non-cheaters, and those cheaters who think everyone cheats.

Which ones are being honest isn't even open for debate.

 

[Uvtha]

If you don't use a certain scripting program to train skills, then you are either a liar or you have carpel tunnel syndrome.

I use a large ball baring to weigh down the key if possible!

 

[Wenchkin]

Except for the players who feel the exact opposite - that any game where you can get near-instant gratification in terms of skill gain feels hollow, and is in the long term, not fun to play at all.

Playing ANY open-ended game and enjoying it is in the Journey, not the destination. This is ESPECIALLY true for those who choose NOT to PvP - most of the skill-related cheating seems to be centered on getting characters ready for PvP (for that matter, much of the duping also ties into items for PvP - either items for PvPers to use, or items used to MAKE crafted PvP equipment where an artifact or event item can't fit the need)

There are really just two types of people in the game -
Non-cheaters, and those cheaters who think everyone cheats.

Which ones are being honest isn't even open for debate.

I remember once I needed to make a second dexer in a hurry to join a RP guild with. You had to create a char with the right look, so I figured "ok, I've trained skills slowly over months with warrior #1, this time I'll use the NPC guards to work her skills up in Delucia..." So she sparred with guards completely legally with me keeping her healed manually. I trained all the skills I could through healing myself and the guards, got some wierd looks from the locals too lol. But it was much easier to just sit there than run round dungeons etc.

But when I finished there was no sense of achievement like I'd had before. No "ooh yay, she GMd" more ah "1 down, 6 to go" thing. I wanted to work her up fast and it worked, but it was a very "hollow" reward when she finished skills. After that, I've really got into normal gameplay for gains. My bard tamer will probably take till the end of the year to train, but I don't care. I can't bring myself to sit and disco a lined up mob of critters, or voke the same mobs repeatedly. She's let her music skill pass 100 too but she's a rebel now, so no stopping her

I have such a low boredom threshold too, if you don't want to break the rules and train AFK, powergaming is the most boring activity ever. Friend once brought a shadow ele to my tavern so we got our pets and stood chatting while they hit it. I think we both lasted 10 mins before we got bored, gated to Moonglow and penned our cat packs up as a mini petting zoo. Took longer to dig up the ele than it took to become bored using it.

Wenchy