A PETITION TO THE DEV TEAM: Improve the World!

[hawkeye_pike]

Dear Game Developers!

We all appreciate the non-tiring effort you put into UO to improve and enhance this fantastic game. We all are looking forward to the upcoming changes and enhancements.

However, some of us think that increasing the breadth of the game (instead of the depth) might favor us veterans, while new players will still have difficulties accessing the game. And what UO needs most at times of dwindling activity, is new fresh players!

I have put together some facts, for you to consider and to discuss. Maybe I am able to point out a few weaknesses of this otherwise great game. With the upcoming expansion of SA and the new kick-ass client, you will have the unique chance to start another era of UO, and get many new subscribers. You must seize this opportunity!

Petition

• Ultima Online needs more interesting low- and medium-level content for (new) players who can not or do not want to enter the doom-artifact-runic-item-treadmill.
• The surface of Britannia has many landmarks, but they are usually deserted and not interesting at all. Landmarks should have stories and riddles tied to them, so people can go out and venture again. Such secrets should be scattered all over Britannia.
• The world (surface and dungeons) should contain more dynamic and entertaining quests, send the adventurer(s) on challenging journeys, and to introduce this complex world to new players step-by-step. (With the Royal Council Homicide you have proven that you CAN make interesting quests!)
• Hacking and slaying monsters is fun, but we also need more riddles and adventures!
• Monster spawn is not intelligent. Monsters re-spawn always in the same place over and over again, and the creatures act always in the same predictable way. If intruders stay too long in an area, monsters should retreat or call for reinforcements. Monsters should be able to change their attacking strategy.

Some Statistics

Dungeons and Underground Monster Spawns (Trammel only)

13 Britannia Dungeons
Wrong, Deceit, Covetous, Despise, Shame, Destard, Hythloth, Prism of Light, Solen Hive, Orc Cave, Sanctuary, Blighted Grove, Painted Caves

06 Lost Lands Dungeons
Ice Dungeon, Fire Dungeon, Delucia Passage, Khaldun/Felucca, Palace of Paroxysmus, Terathan Dungeon

14 Ilshenar Dungeons
Sorcerer Dungeon, Volcanic Lair, Rock Dungeon, Meer Catacombs, Exodus, Ankh Dungeon, Spider Dungeon, Spectre Dungeon, Blood Dungeon, Ratman Mine, Cyclops Dungeon, Wisp Dungeon, Serpentine Passage, Kirin Passage

03 Malas Dungeons
Doom, Bedlam, Minotaur City

03 Tokuno Dungeons
Fan Dancer Dojo, Yomotsu Mines, Citadel

---------------------

• Those are a total of 39 dungeons!!! Many of these places are deserted; nobody ever ventures there. (Anyone been to Rock Dungeon, Volcanic Lair, Wrong etc.?)
• ALL of the dungeons are pure monster-bashing locations. Only few of them have minor riddles, but they are either too easy, not working, or not rewarding. Exception: Doom, but the rewards spawn at ridiculously low intervals.
• Most of the dungeons are boring as hell, although they would have great potential. Best examples: Anti-Virtue Dungeons, Khaldun, Volcanic Lair, Rock Dungeon, Meer Catacombs, Exodus, Ratman Mine.
• Treasure hunting in all of those places is boring and not rewarding.
• The few quests available are very easy and boring (go there, bring me this, slay that).

Overground Monster Spawns

10 Britannia Major Spawns
Yew Crypts, Yew Orc Fort, Desert of Compassion, Bog of Desolation, Cove Orc Fort, Brigand Camp, Hedge Maze, Fens of the Dead, Daemon Altar, several Haunted Ruins

13 Lost Lands Major Spawns
Kos Heb West, Kos Heb East, Wyvern Point, Oasis, Ophidian Lair, Wyvern Isle, Cyclops Valley, Terra Sanctum, Terathan Keep, Haunted Ruins, Hoppers Bog, Savage Fort, City of the Dead

22 Ilshenar Major Spawns
Cyclops Camp, Pass of Karnaugh, Ancient Wyrm's Lair, Montor, Gargoyle Camp, Bandit Town, Lava Villa, Citadel, Lord Blackthorn's Castle, Humility Graveyard, Meteor Crater, Ratman Villa, Earth Elemental Huts, Savage Village, Undead Fort, Lizardman Village, Burned Forest, Cyclops Pyramid, Brigand Tower, Reg Volom, Bet-Lem Reg, Enchanted Forest, Harpy Nest

11 Malas Major Spawns
5 Brigand Camps, 4 Orc Outposts, Grimswind Ruins, Forgotten Pyramid

16 Tokuno Major Spawns
Revenant Jima, Beetlescape, Winter Spur, Bushido Dojo, Yamandon Point, Field of Echoes, Kitsune Woods, Lightest Dark, Hiryu Forest, Tsuki Garden, Mt. Sho, Hotaka Plains, Mt. Hakonu, Lotus Lakes, Crane Marsh, The Waste

---------------------

• Those are a total of 72 spawn locations!!! Most of those are not visited by players at all.
• ALL of those places are pure monster-bashing locations. Only few of them have minor riddles, but they are either too easy, not working, or not rewarding.
• Most of those places have a great potential! They would be perfect places for quests, riddles, treasure and adventure. Best examples: Yew Crypts, Hedge Maze, Haunted Ruins, Terra Sanctum, Graveyards, etc.
• Most of those places are not even known to the majority of players.

This shows why adding new dungeons and landmasses should not have top priority. UO has 10 times more dungeons and places of interest than the players would need. Improving those places, making them interesting, making them dynamic and challenging for both new and veteran players, should be a primary goal. UO doesn't need another monster-bashing location; it needs more quests, riddles, challenges and adventures instead.

Let us dig holes in the wilderness to discover an old skeleton with a secret message inside.
Let us cut down a bush to discover a lost pouch containing a riddle.
Let us examine trees to find an engraving on the trunk.
Let us dig up an old grave to find a trace of a lost treasure hunter.
Let us fish up an ancient casket from a pond somewhere in the jungle, containing mystical items.
Let us mine some rare ressuorce from the depth of a dungeon, that is needed for a quest.
Let us find a secret message of a castaway while digging in the sand of a beach.
Let us find lost journals leading us on challenging and rewarding quests in dungeon treasure chests.
Send us on journeys, quests and adventures, to discover the beauty and the secrets of Britannia.

Please add constructive comments and stick to the topic!

 

[LiberatingLuT]

I agree that are so many wasted places; The really need to make improvements in them to draw people there. Maybe have some boss spawns in all of the virtue and anti virtue dungeons, plus have really good rewards for hunting there (something better then the virtue items).

 

[IanJames]

Hawkeye,

I think you have a very well thought out post and great suggestions. In particular the suggestions for lower level monsters. It would be nice to have an "interesting" low level place for new players to go. They were on the right track for New Haven, but seems like it's never been fully finished.

 

[Oriana]

Wonderful work up Hawkeye!! I agree they have a lot of room to work with. Honestly til I saw that list I don't think I realized how many areas there are. Interesting ideas. If I may suggest cut and paste that into feedback and send it in so it has a better chance of being seen by those in the know.

Oriana

 

[Harb]

Well thought out Hawkeye. My read on the overland spawn, and most dungeons, are that they were gauged to take the player experience from "new" to "veteran." They were "reset" completely once. There was one attempt at a storyline/ puzzle dungeon, which failed only due to location and bugs. There was also insertion of a break line, where it seemed the design intention was that certain dungeons and locations would be the domain for group play and solo play would not be possible. The most recent "change" to the overall dynamic has been events/ quests of both small and large scale.

As an open ended game, it seems an "all of the above" approach probably does work best. There must be continual challenges along the way to sustain player interest indefinitely. This can be accomplished through continued changes, modifications, and additions, which require continued commitment of manpower. Manpower has always been an issue, and as subscriptions dwindled, is even more crucial today. So many things that have needed a hard look over the years have been simply overwhelmed by future development to sustain interest. And a lot of the really good work has been lost, as many major events have preset durations.

I strongly agree with you that it’s about time to do another full review/ overhaul of the spawn system, themes and purpose for each aspect of it. My input is to do so with an eye toward sustaining developmental effort. I firmly believe that the Tram/ Fel mirrors offer the greatest potential for this. So:

1) Felucca could be the land of our history. Every major event could replay there continuously. Once coded to allow for continued replay, the dev effort is sustained, and no future requirement exists. The main "drawback" is infringement on faction play, important to the Japanese player base. Consequently, as part of either SA or the following major "edition," for the first time new lands should be dedicated to the Fel rule set specifically for faction play. Once the faction requirement transfers, Fel can assume the historical role with no change to the rule set.

Possibly the most significant “loss” over time has been developmental adherence to player desires. Why do we play, what do we want to see? What do we dislike? For dev, stop guessing, it’s not working. The strongest advice I can offer EA/ Mythic/ dev is to invest in a professional poll for every active account. Require it to log in, not necessarily completion of a poll, but at least a conscious decision to opt out before play. Without scientific polling, we all have to guess what motivates each of us to pay/ play. My guess is that fundamentally, it comes down to one of four overarching things, camaraderie, items/ “stuff,” basic fun/ entertainment, or challenge. For many, this may vary over time. Dev must take care to avoid “exclusion.” Enabling and empowering players is fundamental. While some may play for camaraderie, dev must avoid requiring it, there should be no exclusion areas for solo play. People who play for “stuff,” can’t be excluded from what they want based on poorly perceived concepts of risk/ reward. New content can ensure entertainment, and with enough content annually, an indefinite status can be achieved. The “stuff” driven player is easiest of all to “please:”

2) Nothing from our “past” should be unobtainable. Fel can hold historical events and the rewards found within. An addition to thief play could see all rares, even the server birth ones; spawn randomly on NPCs with artifact tags so not to devalue originals. Tokumo items can be re-injected. Every location in the game not part of the “new-vet build” should have a small potential to spawn a uniquely named “dedication” item(s) of artifact quality. Avoid presets, keep them somewhat random in terms of properties, so that they also have an infinite life cycle.

Anyway, some food for though.

 

[Blackadder]

When i first read the post's title i thought o boy here we go again another doomsayer.
I'm happy to say i was wrong.
Excellent post and well thought out.
And i totaly agree adding more dungeons will only create more greedy players camping it to get the new goodies.
We have plenty of dungeons already and you are correct they are empty.
In truth you could almost double your list if you included Fel aswell, i know they are mirror images but still a dungeon all the same.
Maybe instead of making one dungeon have one type of quest or reward or whatever, maybe it should be completely random.
If its never known where something is gonna pop up maybe that would encourage more people to explore a bit.
Unfortunately dungeons become predictable once you have sussed them out.
Top marks for your post and hopefully someone of importance reads it and not just skips past it like i "almost" did.

 

[lucitus]

This is why iam doing PvP, this isnt booring and gives me everyday a new chanlange. You must see what you do, everything what you do with a machine is booring, if you do that 5 times 10 times or more.

So i think the mixture is it, first doing a peerless, then PvP, a champ and then at the end of the day a round doom2.

If you do only one thing, youre right it is booring.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Dear Game Developers!

We all appreciate the non-tiring effort you put into UO to improve and enhance this fantastic game. We all are looking forward to the upcoming changes and enhancements.

However, some of us think that increasing the breadth of the game (instead of the depth) might favor us veterans, while new players will still have difficulties accessing the game. And what UO needs most at times of dwindling activity, is new fresh players!

I have put together some facts, for you to consider and to discuss. Maybe I am able to point out a few weaknesses of this otherwise great game. With the upcoming expansion of SA and the new kick-ass client, you will have the unique chance to start another era of UO, and get many new subscribers. You must seize this opportunity!

Petition

• Ultima Online needs more interesting low- and medium-level content for (new) players who can not or do not want to enter the doom-artifact-runic-item-treadmill.
• The surface of Britannia has many landmarks, but they are usually deserted and not interesting at all. Landmarks should have stories and riddles tied to them, so people can go out and venture again. Such secrets should be scattered all over Britannia.
• The world (surface and dungeons) should contain more dynamic and entertaining quests, send the adventurer(s) on challenging journeys, and to introduce this complex world to new players step-by-step. (With the Royal Council Homicide you have proven that you CAN make interesting quests!)
• Hacking and slaying monsters is fun, but we also need more riddles and adventures!
• Monster spawn is not intelligent. Monsters re-spawn always in the same place over and over again, and the creatures act always in the same predictable way. If intruders stay too long in an area, monsters should retreat or call for reinforcements. Monsters should be able to change their attacking strategy.

Some Statistics

Dungeons and Underground Monster Spawns (Trammel only)

13 Britannia Dungeons
Wrong, Deceit, Covetous, Despise, Shame, Destard, Hythloth, Prism of Light, Solen Hive, Orc Cave, Sanctuary, Blighted Grove, Painted Caves

06 Lost Lands Dungeons
Ice Dungeon, Fire Dungeon, Delucia Passage, Khaldun/Felucca, Palace of Paroxysmus, Terathan Dungeon

14 Ilshenar Dungeons
Sorcerer Dungeon, Volcanic Lair, Rock Dungeon, Meer Catacombs, Exodus, Ankh Dungeon, Spider Dungeon, Spectre Dungeon, Blood Dungeon, Ratman Mine, Cyclops Dungeon, Wisp Dungeon, Serpentine Passage, Kirin Passage

03 Malas Dungeons
Doom, Bedlam, Minotaur City

03 Tokuno Dungeons
Fan Dancer Dojo, Yomotsu Mines, Citadel

---------------------

• Those are a total of 39 dungeons!!! Many of these places are deserted; nobody ever ventures there. (Anyone been to Rock Dungeon, Volcanic Lair, Wrong etc.?)
• ALL of the dungeons are pure monster-bashing locations. Only few of them have minor riddles, but they are either too easy, not working, or not rewarding. Exception: Doom, but the rewards spawn at ridiculously low intervals.
• Most of the dungeons are boring as hell, although they would have great potential. Best examples: Anti-Virtue Dungeons, Khaldun, Volcanic Lair, Rock Dungeon, Meer Catacombs, Exodus, Ratman Mine.
• Treasure hunting in all of those places is boring and not rewarding.
• The few quests available are very easy and boring (go there, bring me this, slay that).

Overground Monster Spawns

10 Britannia Major Spawns
Yew Crypts, Yew Orc Fort, Desert of Compassion, Bog of Desolation, Cove Orc Fort, Brigand Camp, Hedge Maze, Fens of the Dead, Daemon Altar, several Haunted Ruins

13 Lost Lands Major Spawns
Kos Heb West, Kos Heb East, Wyvern Point, Oasis, Ophidian Lair, Wyvern Isle, Cyclops Valley, Terra Sanctum, Terathan Keep, Haunted Ruins, Hoppers Bog, Savage Fort, City of the Dead

22 Ilshenar Major Spawns
Cyclops Camp, Pass of Karnaugh, Ancient Wyrm's Lair, Montor, Gargoyle Camp, Bandit Town, Lava Villa, Citadel, Lord Blackthorn's Castle, Humility Graveyard, Meteor Crater, Ratman Villa, Earth Elemental Huts, Savage Village, Undead Fort, Lizardman Village, Burned Forest, Cyclops Pyramid, Brigand Tower, Reg Volom, Bet-Lem Reg, Enchanted Forest, Harpy Nest

11 Malas Major Spawns
5 Brigand Camps, 4 Orc Outposts, Grimswind Ruins, Forgotten Pyramid

16 Tokuno Major Spawns
Revenant Jima, Beetlescape, Winter Spur, Bushido Dojo, Yamandon Point, Field of Echoes, Kitsune Woods, Lightest Dark, Hiryu Forest, Tsuki Garden, Mt. Sho, Hotaka Plains, Mt. Hakonu, Lotus Lakes, Crane Marsh, The Waste

---------------------

• Those are a total of 72 spawn locations!!! Most of those are not visited by players at all.
• ALL of those places are pure monster-bashing locations. Only few of them have minor riddles, but they are either too easy, not working, or not rewarding.
• Most of those places have a great potential! They would be perfect places for quests, riddles, treasure and adventure. Best examples: Yew Crypts, Hedge Maze, Haunted Ruins, Terra Sanctum, Graveyards, etc.
• Most of those places are not even known to the majority of players.

This shows why adding new dungeons and landmasses should not have top priority. UO has 10 times more dungeons and places of interest than the players would need. Improving those places, making them interesting, making them dynamic and challenging for both new and veteran players, should be a primary goal. UO doesn't need another monster-bashing location; it needs more quests, riddles, challenges and adventures instead.

Let us dig holes in the wilderness to discover an old skeleton with a secret message inside.
Let us cut down a bush to discover a lost pouch containing a riddle.
Let us examine trees to find an engraving on the trunk.
Let us dig up an old grave to find a trace of a lost treasure hunter.
Let us fish up an ancient casket from a pond somewhere in the jungle, containing mystical items.
Let us mine some rare ressuorce from the depth of a dungeon, that is needed for a quest.
Let us find a secret message of a castaway while digging in the sand of a beach.
Let us find lost journals leading us on challenging and rewarding quests in dungeon treasure chests.
Send us on journeys, quests and adventures, to discover the beauty and the secrets of Britannia.

Please add constructive comments and stick to the topic!

Agreed.
I am bored to death and am dropping 1 more account. Yes I had a bit.

I have to much gold, I won as a mechant.

The exploration is boring as defined above.

To simplify.
Enhance the game. SO I can walk in any direction and find a dynamic spawn, interesting random spawn, the hidden pouch, an odd vendor, a strange relic or something.

Something, anything.
Forget the compicated events. There great. But dynamic adventuring on land and seas.

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

Very nice post.

Just to add to the lands portion, I would rather see them open up areas that already exist for housing and not add another land mass. Every time they add land mass it just spreads the player base out even more. It is destroying the shards.

 

[o2bavr6]

Good post!!

I agree 100% that we should use the empty lands we have now instead of adding new land mass.

I would also like to see a new way to have non-pvpers introduced to pvp with much less consequence than there is today. And I don’t mean insurance gold loss, I mean the emotional baggage they get from dying because they are either under skilled or having lesser items.

It seems that in a few cases people graduate from being a new player to a veteran and move to PvP instead of PvM because the AI of monsters can never compare to the AI of humans.

How can we incorporate PvP and PvM to make everyone happy? The reason I would like people to experience PvP is for the sweat palm factor that regular monsters cant provide. It truly is the heart of this game even though most PvMers will disagree.

I don't want to get into a huge debate or get this thread off track, but I think that figuring out a way to stop speed hacking as well as other third party programs would be a good start. Also balancing all the PvP skills and in game items properly and evenly.

I also think crafters should have a larger role in the game than they currently do, but I also think that no template should have to sacrifice their game style. Meaning if I don't want to be a crafter I should be able to get items in the game, off of monsters as an example, that would be just as good as ones that are crafted. And vice versa, a crafter shouldn’t have to PvM to get a really nice item if he can craft it himself.

Also EA/Mythic needs to revamp the runic tools drop rate. I don't know if I'm the only one who thinks that getting a legit Val Hammer should not take a year!! I know EA wants people to play so they do this kind of think on purpose, but a year??? I think one a month is a fine drop rate, but that’s just me.

The nice thing about the old days was that if you did lose everything it wasn’t too expensive to replace. As opposed to today where some items are so hard to get and when you finally do get one, in some cases it doesn’t seem to help you succeed in battle due to game current mechanics or exploits. There was exploits in the old days but they didn't give as big an advantage in PvP as some do today. Although the arm/disarm and last target of UOAssist was a huge advantage before UO allowed people to use it legally.

Before pub 16 most (not all) templates were quite balanced, and people could hold their own in a fight regardless of their actual real life PvP skill. Today internet connection and computer have a huge impact in PvP let alone in game items and skills.

Two templates that are 100% identical and with 100% identical items on the chars should make for an even fight regardless of connection speed or lag, but in this case if it is two mages dueling, the mage with the slower internet connection or more lag will lose almost every time. Yet this is not quite the case with two dexers, although that a slow bandaid heal can get you killed just as easily.

So in the end all of your ideas are great and I also would like to see SA somehow incorporated into the existing lands, as well as bringing balance and excitement to everyone playing.

 

[sapphirediablo11]

well since i can't seem to find a smily that is clapping perfusly i will just have to say GOOD post... really like it...

Unlikely to see any of those happen soon, since most of anyone that does the working of uo i hope are/is working on SA and after that unless those get incorped should soon be implamented(IMHO)

I love the idea of fel being the land of history i would kick some butt or hit a donkey for that...

Well good job on the post

 

[MalagAste]

Excellent post. I agree.

 

[Basara]

I would really like to see the overland spawn increase as well, to the old levels I've heard stories about from the days before I played.

 

[GarthGrey]

Why would the Devs want to do any of that interesting stuff, when instead, they can toss a bone to Factioners and ruin the entire world in one fell swoop....

 

[RoseBlue]

Pls bring back BOS!!! (as they were before)

 

[hawkeye_pike]

(I actually haven't thought thoroughly about PvP yet. Fact is, the way Felucca works now isn't successful. Only a minority goes there to PvP, and the majority rather stays in Trammel. Harb had some good ideas here. Like moving some invasions to Felucca after the Trammel events are over. But more thought has to put into it.)

The biggest flaw in EA's development decisions - to my opinion - is that they only favor us veteran players. They keep adding new content, and most of us don't even know the existing content yet. We don't even bother to explore, because we are focused on items too much, and because most of the existing content is neither interesting nor challenging.

I guess that the Shadow Invasion event and Stygian Abyss will bring new players to UO. But players will vanish again after everything has been explored, like it always has been. My estimation is:

• If EA continues to keep on doing things like they currently are, UO will survive AT LEAST another year after the release of Stygian Abyss.
• It depends solely on the QUALITY of the content whether new players will give up after a year, or keep joining and STAYING.
• Entertaining and adventurous quests are needed to introduce new players to the complex game mechanics step by step.
• World content needs above mentioned improvements to KEEP them interested in playing UO. (And also to keep us veterans interested in exploring the world, instead of just waiting for the next reward or expansion.)

If EA changes the depth of the content (provided that they create a kick-ass SA client), I predict that a new era of UO can start!

 

[Violence]

Great thread really! Just wanted to say that. And I totally agree although I'm limited in my PvM activities so I cannot be constructive so to speak.

 

[Ancient Sosarian]

Good post!!

I would also like to see a new way to have non-pvpers introduced to pvp with much less consequence than there is today. And I don’t mean insurance gold loss, I mean the emotional baggage they get from dying because they are either under skilled or having lesser items.

It seems that in a few cases people graduate from being a new player to a veteran and move to PvP instead of PvM because the AI of monsters can never compare to the AI of humans.

How can we incorporate PvP and PvM to make everyone happy? The reason I would like people to experience PvP is for the sweat palm factor that regular monsters cant provide. It truly is the heart of this game even though most PvMers will disagree.

I don't want to get into a huge debate or get this thread off track, but I think that figuring out a way to stop speed hacking as well as other third party programs would be a good start. Also balancing all the PvP skills and in game items properly and evenly. [End Quote]

Reply: SOME folks enjoy PvP only; some PvM only; some enjoy both. However, some choose to NEVER venture into Felucca or Factions and are even wary of joining Guilds or Alliances because they HAVE NO interest in fighting other players. Their choice is as equally valid as all other choices.

Also, with the varying factors of account age, equipment, connection speeds, items, not to mention bugs, exploits, and CHEATS...there is NO possibility to ever achieve "BALANCE" in player v player combat.

Sosaria is wide enuff, deep enuff, and complex enuff to provide all with hours if not years and even decades of enjoyment. Simply continue to provide interesting and engaging content in all the areas frequented by players WITHOUT trying to FORCE players into areas and content THEY DO NOT DESIRE!!!

An SoS

 

[kennykilleduo]

Dungeons and Underground Monster Spawns

Cut the above numbers in half , make some areas easier , make others harder , breathe new life into the areas where populations are low..

What about shards that have low populations across the boards have new areas only on those shards?

 

[Nestorius]

We have so many landmasses and locations. We don't need anymore. We need fleshing out what we already have, making our current world more dynamic.

 

[Masuri]

Those are a total of 39 dungeons!!! Many of these places are deserted; nobody ever ventures there. (Anyone been to Rock Dungeon, Volcanic Lair, Wrong etc.?) . . . Those are a total of 72 spawn locations!!! Most of those are not visited by players at all . . . Most of those places are not even known to the majority of players.

Anyone who's been to a rune library knows about such places. The reason they don't go to them isn't out of ignorance, but rather because most don't suit their play level (high or low) or desired drop value. Still others are so inconvenient (Ilshenar) that people just don't bother.

Myself, I try to hunt in different places every day when my account is active, as I slowly build a rune library. So all of your places (and still others) are well known to me, and my very favorite places are the classic dungeons, graveyards and forts.

And that is the reason I would sign your petition for more quests to old dungeons, and fewer new dungeons added in future expansions - not because I need incentives to go someplace old, but because I recognize that others do. To your petition, I would ask that Ilshenar have its marking requirements lifted, as they once were lifted from T2A. That's the easiest way to get people visiting the facet.

 

[o2bavr6]

Reply: SOME folks enjoy PvP only; some PvM only; some enjoy both. However, some choose to NEVER venture into Felucca or Factions and are even wary of joining Guilds or Alliances because they HAVE NO interest in fighting other players. Their choice is as equally valid as all other choices.

I agree 100%, although it would be nice for everyone to try it once. This way they can say from experience that they are not interested in it, as opposed to just saying I don’t want to do it, without even trying once.

Either way, it should be their choice even if they do not want to participate at all.

Also, with the varying factors of account age, equipment, connection speeds, items, not to mention bugs, exploits, and CHEATS...there is NO possibility to ever achieve "BALANCE" in player v player combat.

Sadly you are probably right here as well, although one can hope that the game exploits and balance gets corrected. I think that they can even balance connection speed if they put their minds to it.

Sosaria is wide enough, deep enough, and complex enough to provide all with hours if not years and even decades of enjoyment. Simply continue to provide interesting and engaging content in all the areas frequented by players WITHOUT trying to FORCE players into areas and content THEY DO NOT DESIRE!!!

I hope my other post didn't come off sounding like I wanted to force players to PvP. If they could ever balance the game I think that more people would enjoy PvP and the excitement that it brings compared to PvM.

But i can say that as an 11 year veteran there are only a few places that I will even go to PvM and that is mainly spawns. This is because other than Peerless or Doom there are no monsters that are worth the effort to kill loot wise. Also after you have killed every monster in the game 1000 times it gets boring and repetitious where PvP has a tendency to be a little less repetitious than monster AI.

After all who wants to spend an hour killing a paragon ancient wyrm for the crummy loot it carries more than a few times? They just arent worth the effort.

In the end I know it's no different than anything else; some people like apples some like oranges. I am just saying to try the banana and see if you like it, if you don't spit it out.

 

[Holise]

Dear Game Developers!

Let us dig holes in the wilderness to discover an old skeleton with a secret message inside.
Let us cut down a bush to discover a lost pouch containing a riddle.
Let us examine trees to find an engraving on the trunk.
Let us dig up an old grave to find a trace of a lost treasure hunter.
Let us fish up an ancient casket from a pond somewhere in the jungle, containing mystical items.
Let us mine some rare ressuorce from the depth of a dungeon, that is needed for a quest.
Let us find a secret message of a castaway while digging in the sand of a beach.
Let us find lost journals leading us on challenging and rewarding quests in dungeon treasure chests.
Send us on journeys, quests and adventures, to discover the beauty and the secrets of Britannia.

Please add constructive comments and stick to the topic!

These ideas are by far the best concepts i have read in many Uhall threads very thoughtful and creative as well!! LOVE ur post!

 

[Harb]

(I actually haven't thought thoroughly about PvP yet. Fact is, the way Felucca works now isn't successful. Only a minority goes there to PvP, and the majority rather stays in Trammel.

While this type comment tends to cause consternation on the boards, it's true. It all comes down to choice. One of the things that gets dev in trouble, and even skews each of our own posts, is the idea that everybody else likes/ dislikes what we do. Over time, dev has shown a propencity to program based on the belief that if we try what they give us, we'll like it. While often correct, the times they've been incorrect, have hurt us all. I'm very curious how the pub 56 stuff ends up playing out. There's some very imaginative stuff in there. I sincerely believe however, that we're way overdue for some good ole polling.

Harb had some good ideas here. Like moving some invasions to Felucca after the Trammel events are over. But more thought has to put into it.)

Thank you sir. More times than not, the simpliest concepts, and those directional in nature, have served the game best. Conceptually, your thread here is one of those type "things." The theme is to relook spawn accross the boards, and have it serve a task/ purpose based on how the game is played, and what players like/ dislike. While the manpower and programming effort may not be as simple as the idea, it's one of those types "recurring" requirements that certainly has hit it's optimal window of opportunity again.

The biggest flaw in EA's development decisions - to my opinion - is that they only favor us veteran players. They keep adding new content, and most of us don't even know the existing content yet. We don't even bother to explore, because we are focused on items too much, and because most of the existing content is neither interesting nor challenging.

Also true. But fundamentally, any concious decision dev makes depends on what they see as the game's future. If we've entered into a "sustain" mentality, which may be the case, then efforts likely aren't misfocused at all. I think we all agree that new players are a lifeblood, so hopefully that has not been lost in terms of priorities.

I guess that the Shadow Invasion event and Stygian Abyss will bring new players to UO. But players will vanish again after everything has been explored, like it always has been. My estimation is:

• If EA continues to keep on doing things like they currently are, UO will survive AT LEAST another year after the release of Stygian Abyss.
• It depends solely on the QUALITY of the content whether new players will give up after a year, or keep joining and STAYING.

• 
  
  I don't disagree, but would add that retention also depends in no small measure on us as players. It's part of why I get so adament when I see dev comments such as allowing red characters/ non-consentual PvP in the SA lands. I've rambled on about this endlessly over the years as there are so few of us left from the beginning that have seen the impact on new players first hand. You see a lot garbage in response about how "it wasn't/ isn't so," but I return to an earlier observation that what we each may enjoy does not mean someone else enjoys the same. Nobody, and I mean nobody, has ever liked getting "punked" in an entertainment product they pay for. Such decisions cause me to suspect we may in "sustain" mode entirely, and that there exists no solid statistical data avaliable to dev regarding where game subscriptions have been over the course of time.
  
  

  [*]Entertaining and adventurous quests are needed to introduce new players to the complex game mechanics step by step.

  I don't think this is a "minor" thing, though I could be wrong. At the Atlanta town hall, Darkscribe made it seem it was a major undertaking to provide what we did get in Haven. Again though, we players have a major role and responsibility in this regard.
  
  

  [*]World content needs above mentioned improvements to KEEP them interested in playing UO. (And also to keep us veterans interested in exploring the world, instead of just waiting for the next reward or expansion.)

This was part of what I was attempting to address earlier in my comment about maintaining the work dev does do. Something that happens to many of us, is waiting between the publishes, as events time out and are not immediately replaced. It's a content issue, but is easily addressed by keeping interesting aspects of the game alive and well. If it works, stop deleting it!

If EA changes the depth of the content (provided that they create a kick-ass SA client), I predict that a new era of UO can start!

Let's hope so.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I would like to suggest a few things:

1. The old dungeons should be revamped. The Anti-Virtue artifacts are nice, but they drop from things that cannot really harm players, like lizardmen, so all you have in those locations are scripters. Go out to the Lizardman level of Despise sometime and watch the players there running around in the same patterns over and over again, just randomly casting spells. Talk to one of them. You will see...they are not there.

These dungeons should be more rewarding. And the rewards should drop in a manner that makes sense...not randomly. So if a player, or a small group goes into Hythloth, for example, they should know that when they kill the Balron that spawns at the bottom of it, that they will have some chance of getting a reward, like an artifact...instead of just killing every little creature in the dungeon with a script to farm the artifacts.

No one should be able to recall or gate into or out of any dungeon, period. They should have to work their way through the dungeon to reach the point where the reward lies. And perhaps there could be multiple areas in the dungeon where different rewards are available.

Certainly some mini-quests thrown in would be more interesting than just straight killing.

There are so many possibilities for the old dungenons that it makes me sad everytime I go into one of them. Also, the spawns need to be adjusted. Not even new players really need to fight rats and lizardmen anymore. There should be some of those types of spawns, but areas like first level of Covetous are ridiculously easy, therefore...boring.

2. Someone mentioned a way to introduce PvM'ers to PvP. Simple...the fighting pit in Jhelom! Why do we even have that pit if we aren't going to use it. Make it so that players can enter the pit to fight, and have to agree to certain limitations. This should be doable via an object, like the donation box at Moonglow Zoo...of even better, an NPC.

A player or a group could challenge another player or group, someone from the group goes up to the NPC or object, registers the conditions of the fight, and a time is made for them to come back and fight. If the conditions are, for example, no magic...then spells have no effect. No pets, the pets cannot enter during that fight. Etc. Etc.

This way players that want to try PvP can do so under conditions that they agree to, and it is honorable, fair combat...instead of just getting ganked. Once they have feel for PvP, perhaps they can move on to the real thing.

I am not sure how much effort these kinds of things would take...but I think it would go a long way in helping to bring players back to the mainland, and revitalize the old towns and cities.

 

[Viper09]

Amen! Too much wasted space and so much potential.
Let's hope that with SA that some of this will be fulfilled.

/Signed

 

[Crysta]

Your first two points are bull.. there's plenty of content for ANY level of player to enjoy so long as they're willing to go out and do it/look for it (older players just assume everyone should be getting the highest level equipment they can and misguidedly give such items to those players or tell them "that's what you NEED to do".. perpetuating the lie helps no one), and landmarks don't need any special signifigance to them, nor do they always need to be intriguing/spectacular.

The rest are all fair points, though.

 

[Goodoljoe]

A very good post,kept me reading it from start to end while noding my head
constantly.Devs this is definitely worthwhile of attention

 

[kelmo]

Interesting and provocative. *tips hat*

 

[HD2300]

I feel the game is very solid for beginning and mid level chars. It is fun starting out, learning new things. The reason why all these dungeons are deserted is that 99.99% of those playing are vets. If there are lots of new players these places will have people running around in them.

There needs to be unscriptable quests where new players can provide useful things that vets can use. Like the Solen quests but just more of them.

End game needs revamping. PvPers are long overdue some sort of Arena with no pots and consumables bs. 1 vs 1 to 4 vs 4. Have some sort of Green/Journeyman/Elite division system. More PvMers would get involved in this too.

There 3 things of value - items, PS and deco/rares. Deco/event type rares and luck items should drop on Fel champs. Every 3 months put in new ones, so the previous ones become RARES. Collecters and decorators will go nuts about these Rares and PvMers nuts about the luck items. Tram champs and Peerless should drop uber items that PvPers want. Tone down item intensities for Fel champs. Both rulesets drop PS. So the balance is Fel champs drop Rares and Luck items, and Tram champs and Peerless drop uber items. Shouldnt be too hard to put in new items every 3 months to ensure things dont become stale and are in demand.

Make BRK, Val Hammers BODs and Heartwood Runic quests unscriptable. Currently it is a joke.

Integrate Punkbuster.

Finally put in more unscriptable Strongbox quests like Sanctuary and Citadel.

 

[Redxpanda]

/Signed

The only thing i would add is make loot more random. It would be great if you had a chance to get great loot from even the smallest monster. The way it is now, you know you have no chance to get a decent item unless you are fighting a certain level monster. I love it when i am playing a new game (like i am playing tabula rasa now) and i have no idea if that item i found is good, great or junk but i love finding it and keeping it while i learn how good it is. With UO, you know everything you find is junk until you start fighting high end monsters.

 

[Raina]

I dunno, I'd kinda just be happy if they fixed the world map that they trashed for KR... That said, great writeup.. I just don't think anything so well thought out will make it into UO *grins*

~Rai

 

[Maplestone]

/sign

However, as good an observation and idea as this is, the timing may be wrong. SA is adding a new land and new dungeon to explore. If they are planning to overhaul the old maps and dungeons right now, they are playing their cards close to the chest.

But I would like to see that there were mini-bosses across the land that could pop up in the right circumstances (I really, really like the Drelgar(sp?) spawn in the Haven ruins- a nice little miniboss with a semi-predictable piece of semi-interesting loot)

Puzzle piece quests would be nice too, as well as some "squad-level" AI, add a way consume every item that drops (I still have a strong desire to dry-loot all the monsters that cross my path, but just figuring out which vendor will buy which item isn't quite enough gameplay), a class of no-recall/no-gate objects (to make players more sticky and give extra incentive to travel overland), in-city systems, etc, etc (stops rambling while I still can)

 

[Cyrah]

Well said op!

Also agree with Raven, "enhance the game"!

Have some odd loot pop up on any monster or hide animal, anything, a new plant, a book, the possibilities are endless. Polka dotted bread!

Small uncomplicated surprises. Would this be hard to code?

 

[Dalton4902]

Your first two points are bull.. there's plenty of content for ANY level of player to enjoy so long as they're willing to go out and do it/look for it (older players just assume everyone should be getting the highest level equipment they can and misguidedly give such items to those players or tell them "that's what you NEED to do".. perpetuating the lie helps no one), and landmarks don't need any special signifigance to them, nor do they always need to be intriguing/spectacular.

The rest are all fair points, though.

Calling anyone's opinion "bull" is a great way to make sure people will not listen to anything more you have to say. Constructive criticism is good, but that kind of criticism just shows your incredible level of immaturity.

Great post, Hawkeye, as usual.
/signed

 

[TheGhostRaider]

After many years of reading, I love those all those idea. well done Hawkeye. I'm not sure that SA will bring new players, it will only forces old player to stick around to see what news and how long can we get bore of this new expension. Quest is something that can be done often is the reward is good. Tresure chest need to have better loot as well if I may. The only bad timing is not to fix the problem that we having right now with this game. Let bring so twist in the hunt and bring some of those Idea to life. Let see how many moderator will help us getting those idea into a drawing board and not only be a thought.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Anti-Virtue dungeons:

While the 10th anniversary drops were nice, the level they have been reduced to drop-wise makes them a LONG shot chance happening that you would be happy to have happen IF you had a better reason to be in the virtue dungeons in the first place.

To that end, the OBVIOUS to me issue with the anti-virtue dungeons is that they are only such IN NAME ONLY.

We have an entire Virtue system (unfinished) that should have been based NOT on camping champ spawns or camping escorts, or hitting a macro while PvMing, but based on QUESTING. There should be quests that take you to each dungeon for a specific purpose. Then once you have your level of Virtue, if it decays over time, then all it should take is a trip to a virtue shrine and a short time of meditation (chanting the appropriate mantra and ONLY the appropriate mantra, so no macroing the entire mantra list).

Since Bags of Sending have been nerfed, create a system that allows the earth elems in the small circular section of the rat cave to cycle through the various ore elems as they are killed (paragons of upper level elems would be difficult for pets (thus fire beetles) to handle, so the ability to script the place would be more difficult (yes I understand NOT impossible, but at leat difficult)).

Create locked doorways in various dungeons. The locked door would lead to an instanced section of the dungeon. The key would be obtained as a rare drop or as a quest item and would work for you and your current party. Instead of keeping people forced out of the area until the current users are done, each key would create a seperate instance of that sub-section. It would be more world-friendly than most instanced dungeons because the "vortex" that marks the entrance wouldn't exist, people would simply see a door that is locked to them and would require a key to enter.

Give Lockpicking and Remove Traps a bigger presence in dungeons, especially within the instanced areas (just consider locked doorways, magically locked doorways, trapped areas more appropriate than randomly placed patches everyone can see and simply avoid anyway that would have to be disarmed, puzzle chests that would give you a better chance of completing with the two skills and so on).

Edit: A post earlier speaks of "puzzle piece" quests and I have to agree with this as well. Piecing together the pirate map in Ultima 6 was SWEET... something like that would be cool as well.

 

[Frey Wavestrider]

Excellent post. I have only been playing a year, my wife has been playing since beta. I enjoy exploring the dungeons and we often go to places and do things that most new players never see or do. Mainly because they do not know it or do not see the value of doing it. I like to explore all the facets, including Fel and I do. But something needs to be done. My wife and I can leave the housing area of tokuno and not see any other players most days. Quests and puzzles are a way to do it. The Jasper thread and investigation was excellent and we did it will our guildies, solving the clues and finding the answers. Unfortunately there are not enough of those. The Halloween one in Khaldun was good because it brought players there.

New content is something that needs to be done to help the game thrive but the old content must be made more relevant and not just the PvP aspects. ALL aspects of it, quests that are relevant to the storyline should occur in as many different dungeons and locations as possible. Also the quests should allow various templates to be of use. Not just tamers for the big bosses or a ninja or thief. One may mean you need more paladin skills another Bushido etc. This would allow people with various templates to see how effective they were and give them a goal and a challenge. While PvP'rs want to see PvP as the endgame, the truth is a lot of players just do not see it as the endgame. They have no interest and it is their right not to PvP. However they want to test their skills and they should be able to. Personally I suck at PvP, I will defend myself but because of what I do real life I see no thrill in it, I much rather solve a puzzle or explore, or tame a new creature. So I agree with Hawkeye we need to re open the facets and start exploring, questing and seeing what is to be seen.

 

[Cailleach]

/signed

Some fantastic ideas, I really hope the Devs are reading and paying attention; nothing like having your customers do some of the work for you and the bonus is they get what they want

Can we please do something to get new players settled? I'm sorry to bang on about it, I really am, but we need to help them get sorted and settled in the lands. I'm pretty sure that a lot of them just leave because there's so much to learn and it can seem very overwhelming - templates, armour, stats, where to hunt, how to make money, there's so much there. There are folks who help, but we all have real lives so our time in game has to be worked around those. For all the youngs we catch, there are a lot more that we miss. We need some sort of system whereby vets volunteer to look after a young player for a certain amount of time and, when a new young is created, they're linked to a vet that is currently online and who has agreed to meet them in haven and help them out, answer questions, that sort of thing. If there was some way to get a chat system going between the vet and young, that would be a bonus - like guild or party, but without the need to do either of those. There were a lot of good ideas in the 'new player experience' thread, devs, please read it!

 

[Wenchkin]

I agree with the OP, great post!

I think one of the real kicks for the dungeons we have is that players no longer need to use them to train. When I started in UO we used to spar with guildmates or we went out hunting the appropriate level of monster. I remember GMing parrying with a drake because it just was more fun than a blade spirit

Now we have golems and satyrs for players to get easier gains, in some cases sadly those are afk trained.

Tamers who once had to use appropriate level spawns (again in dungeons) can now park a pet on a shadow ele spawn or by the pixies in Twisted Werld with or without the satyr trick again to help their gains. They can cast on pets without being eaten up now. Ok, you could do that with house stables or at the NPC stables, but it would have been better IMO if that was taken out and a trained pet meant you'd done the rounds.

I realise that a lot of players will say "but I only play 2 hours a week" but truth is that is how I played for years using those old systems of training, and I had trained pets and characters. We went on guild hunts together specifically to get gains, treasure hunted ogre lords GM'd my archer. My tamers have been in pretty much every corner of the old dungeons with pets, I know T2A like the back of my hand.

But players want to sit in corners training up their toons before they go anywhere now. And when they do hunt, I guess it'll be the gold farming spots or the high end loot areas. There is no need to go to Shame or the orc dungeon. Or anywhere else for that matter, unless it has uber loot mobs *sigh*

I suppose you could fix things by puting cool content in old dungeons, but I think you'd still have players skip in, play with new stuff and move on. Which is why I would like to see the "parking" methods for skill gain at least made noticibly less effective than going out hunting, so players are encouraged to go to the dungeons once more. I bet many new players haven't a clue where to find an earth ele or water ele nowadays.

I'd also love to see more overland spawns and the odd surprise spawn so players had a reason to wander around overland too. Knowing where all the mobs are at any given time can get dull for older players, and in Fel we lack overland PKs so I'd appreciate some extra content to spice things up.

Or even quests that required a player to go to an old dungeon in search of something. That might get a few to go gather guildmates and see where they might be hunting that night.

Wenchy

 

[Bouche835]

14 Ilshenar Dungeons
Sorcerer Dungeon, Volcanic Lair, Rock Dungeon, Meer Catacombs, Exodus, Ankh Dungeon, Spider Dungeon, Spectre Dungeon, Blood Dungeon, Ratman Mine, Cyclops Dungeon, Wisp Dungeon, Serpentine Passage, Kirin Passage

I have been playing for right at 3 years and I have never heard of them. Great points.

 

[Crysta]

Calling anyone's opinion "bull" is a great way to make sure people will not listen to anything more you have to say. Constructive criticism is good, but that kind of criticism just shows your incredible level of immaturity.

Great post, Hawkeye, as usual.
/signed

Saying "nobody will listen to you anymore" directly to the person you're thinking about is a good way of making yourself wrong from the starting gate.

And aside from what I had issues with, the rest of his post was indeed great, as I already said.

 

[Dalton4902]

Saying "nobody will listen to you anymore" directly to the person you're thinking about is a good way of making yourself wrong from the starting gate.

And aside from what I had issues with, the rest of his post was indeed great, as I already said.

Are you serious? I mean.... Are you serious? Wow... Just wow...