Should the Harrower Quest be availabe in Ilsh/Trammel?

[Ni-]

You are babbling.

I do have to besubjected to your playstyle to go to DOOM...so whats your point?

Like I said...you have DOOM..we have Harry's...get over it.

Get this fact through your head:
1. Nothing is stopping your blue from coming to Fel to do a Harry.
2. EVERYTHING is stopping my Red from coming to Tram to do DOOM.

Your response to this is:
Make a Blue PVM char or You already do come.

Which means that I do subject myself to your playstyle to go to DOOM.

Why dont you start whining about what Faction chars get while your at it.

I dont have a Faction char but you dont see my whining about what they get.
Crystalline with 3 FCR?
lol...its ******** over-powered...buts its a benefit of Factions...

Factions has their own benefits....
Tram has their own benefits...
Fel has their own benefits...

But as usual...Trammies are never happy and they want everyone elses stuff.

note: I don't care if Felucca has something that Trammel doesn't. This reply is from a more philosophical discussionary standpoint.

It is alot easier for a Feluccan to simply make another character to use to take part in all that is Trammel, if so desired. It's alot harder for a Trammelite to simply make another character to use to take part in all that is Felucca.

The mentality to want to/to be able to kill someone, even in a little old video game, is not very easy for some people to switch on and off, or even grasp when playing in the Felucca rule set. On the other hand someone that can grasp and switch it on and off is simply given a temporary annoyance when 'forced' to play in the Trammel rule set.

 

[Omnius]

its very common for trammel newbs to simply pay or join spawn guilds and become the designated champ basher/dead ressers...

 

[Nexus]

And I can counter by not all shards have spawns watched 24/7 nor the people around to raid 24/7. This may be different on Alt or GL. But not everyone posting here is on either of those shards.

Nope not all are on those shards, but many of us are and Alt and GL aren't the only ones. Here's a fine example

http://my.uo.com/cgi-bin/guilds.pl?g=9291e1b2bbb4ca0c:6
146 total members
129 Veteran members

They are dominate Raid guild on Chesapeake. How much you want to bet someone isn't always watching there?

Guess you missed the subtle hint of "BROKER". You give the gold to a broker to hold until the harry is done.

Plus, on any given shard, there are usually two top guilds. Pick one and try. I'd say maybe one or two guilds in all of UO don't have a price but will have a competitive guild who would.

I know of two guilds on two different shards that have hosted free harrowers. They guard, trammies killing. One shard was Atlantic.

You are trying to find the easy out of this(aka gimme... gimme... gimme)... not trying to find solutions that work within the given system.

I'm not looking for an easy way out I'm stating the obvious. If the sole purpose of Scrolls only being in Fel is PvP then what is the point of PvP if it revolves around a PvM system? Only one obvious answer. To draw and/or allow exploitation of non-PvP players by forcing them into an environment they have no desire or care to engage in, for the purpose of providing enjoyment for those who's main preoccupation in Ultima Online is in engaging in what can be called Anti-social behavior.

What I find most disturbing is that your reasonable solutions can be simplified down to such amoral concepts, namely bribes, which of course further adds to my point.

If you firmly believe that the Raid guilds go do their business for the fun of PvP, then explain to me why they don't simply toss the scrolls afterward, or why the generally show up only during the later stages of the spawn instead of ambushing victims when they enter the area? Seems to me that control of the PS market for personal profit weighs highly in the equation because if the later was true then what we see wouldn't make much sense.

 

[Nexus]

You are babbling.

I do have to besubjected to your playstyle to go to DOOM...so whats your point?

Like I said...you have DOOM..we have Harry's...get over it.

Get this fact through your head:
1. Nothing is stopping your blue from coming to Fel to do a Harry.
2. EVERYTHING is stopping my Red from coming to Tram to do DOOM.

Your response to this is:
Make a Blue PVM char or You already do come.

Which means that I do subject myself to your playstyle to go to DOOM.

Why dont you start whining about what Faction chars get while your at it.

I dont have a Faction char but you dont see my whining about what they get.
Crystalline with 3 FCR?
lol...its ******** over-powered...buts its a benefit of Factions...

Factions has their own benefits....
Tram has their own benefits...
Fel has their own benefits...

But as usual...Trammies are never happy and they want everyone elses stuff.

My issue is that I don't see a reason for any restriction on obtaining any object in UO based on any Combative (PvM or PvP) playstyle being a valid addition to the game. It only creates and spawns division instead of promoting community.

 

[HD2300]

its very common for trammel newbs to simply pay or join spawn guilds and become the designated champ basher/dead ressers...

LOL. The Yakuza and the Mob should recruit hardcore UO Production shard PvPers.

 

[Bara]

I would personally love it if you could spawn him in tram, but without any scrolls or anything.

I just want the experience of fighting him and I want it to be a pvm experience.

 

[Limlight]

If you firmly believe that the Raid guilds go do their business for the fun of PvP, then explain to me why they don't simply toss the scrolls afterward, or why the generally show up only during the later stages of the spawn instead of ambushing victims when they enter the area? Seems to me that control of the PS market for personal profit weighs highly in the equation because if the later was true then what we see wouldn't make much sense.

See, statements like this tell me you dont go to Fel Spawns much...if at all.

My guild...LNR...COW...and every other guild that I know of on Atlantic...drops all the 10's and most of the 15's right at the altar.

Heck last night...the altar of Despise had like fourteen 10's and like eight 15's just scattered all over the Island.

Most of us keep only the +15 Magery and +20's.

 

[SixUnder]

this is what i was saying in my previous post.

all the trouble in the game, all the bugs, cheating, exploits and we have a publish today on nothing but trammie bs.

all about slimes and where they are and how someone is coloring their swampie armor, LOL. what about bugged tiles? what about idoc house? what about condemed osi owned houses? i can go on forever.

this is 100% what i was referring too. the next publish will be on how to change your diaper in malas, with a play by play on how to locate the desitin.:bowdown:

 

[Lord Kynd]

once you combine both the yes's and both the no's to each other respectivly , it looks like the yes's outweigh the no's by a landslide

 

[Bardie]

once you combine both the yes's and both the no's to each other respectivly , it looks like the yes's outweigh the no's by a landslide

That's cause there are more trammies than fellucans?

 

[SixUnder]

That's cause there are more trammies than fellucans?

i would hope so, after all the years of catering.

 

[JC the Builder]

It is encouraging to see the vote split 50/50.

 

[Omnius]

Nope not all are on those shards, but many of us are and Alt and GL aren't the only ones. Here's a fine example

http://my.uo.com/cgi-bin/guilds.pl?g=9291e1b2bbb4ca0c:6
146 total members
129 Veteran members

They are dominate Raid guild on Chesapeake. How much you want to bet someone isn't always watching there?




I'm not looking for an easy way out I'm stating the obvious. If the sole purpose of Scrolls only being in Fel is PvP then what is the point of PvP if it revolves around a PvM system? Only one obvious answer. To draw and/or allow exploitation of non-PvP players by forcing them into an environment they have no desire or care to engage in, for the purpose of providing enjoyment for those who's main preoccupation in Ultima Online is in engaging in what can be called Anti-social behavior.

What I find most disturbing is that your reasonable solutions can be simplified down to such amoral concepts, namely bribes, which of course further adds to my point.

If you firmly believe that the Raid guilds go do their business for the fun of PvP, then explain to me why they don't simply toss the scrolls afterward, or why the generally show up only during the later stages of the spawn instead of ambushing victims when they enter the area? Seems to me that control of the PS market for personal profit weighs highly in the equation because if the later was true then what we see wouldn't make much sense.

I had a half assed bard with some necro skills on chessy so I put your challenge to the test. I was able to solo 2 rat spawns in t2a in rapid succession at midnight est on chessy. No significant effort put out on my part accomplished a spawn there. Harder to do a spawn on shards with more formidable populations.

 

[Gellor]

Nope not all are on those shards, but many of us are and Alt and GL aren't the only ones. Here's a fine example

http://my.uo.com/cgi-bin/guilds.pl?g=9291e1b2bbb4ca0c:6
146 total members
129 Veteran members

They are dominate Raid guild on Chesapeake. How much you want to bet someone isn't always watching there?

I would bet a LOT. 129 vets? THAT'S it? Go look at Pac history. Top dominant guild for YEARS was FL and they had over 300 vets. People were still able to sneak spawns in *rolleyes*

I'm not looking for an easy way out I'm stating the obvious. If the sole purpose of Scrolls only being in Fel is PvP then what is the point of PvP if it revolves around a PvM system? Only one obvious answer. To draw and/or allow exploitation of non-PvP players by forcing them into an environment they have no desire or care to engage in, for the purpose of providing enjoyment for those who's main preoccupation in Ultima Online is in engaging in what can be called Anti-social behavior.

ROFL... player interaction = anti-social behavior. I'd say the non-PvPers have a higher rate of anti-social behavior: aka play an online game and NOT want any player involvement at all

I've also never claimed spawns being solely for PvP. Of course they are there for money... they are the only significant source of money available to reds without forcing them to do hours of PvM.

I'll repeat, you are seeking an easy way out. You want scrolls but aren't willing to work for them: either by getting them yourself or PvMing for the gold to get them.

What I find most disturbing is that your reasonable solutions can be simplified down to such amoral concepts, namely bribes, which of course further adds to my point.

Um okay... so asking a guild to host a spawn is an amoral concept? Doing a spawn non-prime time is an amoral concept?

In that case, we can boil all your "solutions" down to "i want... I want... i want"... aka the spoiled child syndrome

Here is a non bribe solution: transfer to another shard and farm the holy hell out of scrolls.

If you firmly believe that the Raid guilds go do their business for the fun of PvP, then explain to me why they don't simply toss the scrolls afterward, or why the generally show up only during the later stages of the spawn instead of ambushing victims when they enter the area? Seems to me that control of the PS market for personal profit weighs highly in the equation because if the later was true then what we see wouldn't make much sense.

My guild does toss the scrolls afterword... in the trash Those that are sellable are sold

As presented, how many methods do PvMers have for earning LARGE sums of gold(100k+):

1. Doom artifacts
2. Peerless ingredients
3. Bod rewards
4. Tram only events

Now lets look at reds/PvPers options for getting gold without doing hours of PvMing:

1. 
   
   Now lets look at who is controlling aspects of the game:
   Trammies are getting all the items(ie armor, etc)
   PvPers are getting all the scrolls.
2. Harrower
3. Champs spawns

 

[Cetric]

i don't think you pvmers get it at all, and i do mean AT ALL. Sure the power scroll market is semi controlled by pvp guilds doing and raiding champ spawns, sure we enjoy that but lets turn it around and say they allowed scrolls in trammel. Suddenly, who is going to try to do a spawn in fel, why bother? so then there is no one to raid, there is no dungeon fights, all pvp focuses around yew gate (maybe expanded to another gate) where blues can hide in guard zones for the sole purpose of attempting to guard whack someone. people get frusterated and pvp goes out the window in uo, you suddenly lose much of the player base.

agree with me or not but this is what i see happening. and i will say what has been said before many times, come to fel and do them, it is not that hard to defend a champ spawn, need mages that know how to field, and if you are inexperienced, try it! for godsake everyone who does it now grew and learned as they went at some point, why should you be any different. I sure as hell wouldn't be able to roll up to a peerless and solo it. So does that mean you control the crimmy market, the hair dye market? No, it simply means that simple pvm doesn't suit my play style, nor do i care to learn it. Therefore i have to buy a crimmy, and you have to buy a powerscroll/stat scroll because pvp doesn't suit your play style.

As for people wondering why pvp is associated with the pvm aspect of a champ/harry. imo it is because you are fighting for something, much like a glorified game of capture the flag with a prize at the end of the rainbow.



What i will end with is this, if you DO wish to pvp, just don't have the experience, jump in and learn, watch what other guilds/ppl do, shadow a guild, whatever. Most tram guilds trump a fel guild in numbers by far, if you take 1/2 of your active players, stick them on mages for fielding purposes and the other half for spawn/syncing. That is all, hope i enlightened atleast one person. Even though half of that has been said before.

 

[Cetric]

I would bet a LOT. 129 vets? THAT'S it? Go look at Pac history. Top dominant guild for YEARS was FL and they had over 300 vets. People were still able to sneak spawns in *rolleyes*[/LIST]

You cannot go by the uo guilds count for anything.

 

[Cetric]

I would personally love it if you could spawn him in tram, but without any scrolls or anything.

I just want the experience of fighting him and I want it to be a pvm experience.

i don't have any problem with that, at all. make it so you can pop the harry in tram, with different stipulations, like tram only spawn drops that you put on an alter to summon him and he pops up in any tram/malas/ilsh dungeon. fight him for the replicas and items, but don't drop stat scrolls. I can see from a PvM type of player where this would be enjoyable and i won't discredit that.