Can someone explain to me the reasoning behind...

[Maplestone]

Ignoring the surplus I've accumulated from treasure hunting, regular regs do spawn on the ground - it's not that hard to gather as you go (I'm certainly not going to claim its faster than going to a shop, but with a little practice, it's not hard to collect at better than a reagent a second).

 

[Sam the Scribe]

Ignoring the surplus I've accumulated from treasure hunting, regular regs do spawn on the ground - it's not that hard to gather as you go (I'm certainly not going to claim its faster than going to a shop, but with a little practice, it's not hard to collect at better than a reagent a second).

Yes, please do ignore the surplus you get from treasure hunting... no new player is going to be able to do t-hunts.

Gathering reagents on the ground? I've been waiting for you to come out and say that... that is the MOST RIDICULOUS THING IVE EVER SEEN POSTED IN THESE FORUMS.

I can burn 200+ drake/pearl/blood in a full day of fighting with my mage. Other regs get burned too... but those are the top three. Now factor in the fact that even a experienced mage can die and get his regs looted...

Yes, I do have LRC mages but my main "fighting mage" has some incredible armor pieces and I'm damned if I'm gonna trash an excellent suit and spend a fortune trying to get 100%lrc with the mods I've got already on my suit.

I tell ya what Maplestone... you start a vendor where you stock it from the regs you pick up off the ground every day and I promise I'll shop there exclusively.

Safe Travels, Sam

 

[Laina]

Aren't arrows and bolts also sold in bulk?

Seems like a pretty outdated system to me.

 

[Maplestone]

*shrug* When I start a first new character on a server, I usually start by creating a scribe gathering reagents off the ground. It works.

The only reason it's not profitable in the long run is because there are more efficient ways to get reagents once you have a character built up.

edit: I miss the old Haven level 0 treasure maps though - you could really get reagents in a hurry with them

edit 2: see also post #43

 

[Phalynx]

Face it Flutter, I guess you just a noobie and dont "get it" *sigh*
anyway ,theres not many educated responses found on UHALL (if there ever was).
Bless you and your loved ones, and nice to see you still here. Happy New Year =)

 

[Cailleach]

I'm with Flutter - reg runs suck. They suck so much that I make the guildies do it because I hate it so much. Although I won't send them to Fel since the guard zones dropped! By all means keep the lower amounts for newer players, but please, start selling 1k or 5k deeds. I use tons for pots, apples, grapes, petals and scrolls, and getting bulk amounts is either a right PITA or expensive.

 

[Phalynx]

Gathering reagents on the ground? I've been waiting for you to come out and say that... that is the MOST RIDICULOUS THING IVE EVER SEEN POSTED IN THESE FORUMS.

Try to imagine almost GMing your mage from regents off the ground, Some of us actually did that . It is possible but extreamly anoying ,now that you can buy 999 of every reg.
I did both but belive me, you hold more sentiment twords your scavenger mage than you do your "I camped the vendor Mage". Ultima Online gives you more than one way to do something ( Probably from lack of updateding old design ). Is hard to find a game nowdays that lets you do just that.

 

[Duskofdead]

Ignoring the surplus I've accumulated from treasure hunting, regular regs do spawn on the ground - it's not that hard to gather as you go (I'm certainly not going to claim its faster than going to a shop, but with a little practice, it's not hard to collect at better than a reagent a second).

Please skill up an alchemist before suggesting that what can be picked up on the ground can even begin to cover the basic needs of players who use regs.

 

[Kariny]

Flutter, I'm with you on this one.

I almost fell outta my seat laughing when Sam said you're a newb and it's impossible to gm magery or anything by collecting regs on the ground.

I'm old I guess. I still remember collecting them on the ground to gm magery, alchy, and inscription. Vendors didn't respawn with higher counts each time if I remember correctly. I had a lovely area near Minoc to collect them and it spawned loads of sulphorus ash.
Yes children, at one time, it didn't spawn on vendors.

I quit the faction vendors and many other vendors. Somone would come along with a lovely third party program and wipe out all my hard work. I shop in two spots only since they are unihabited and one area I can kill the sucker when they do it.

Unless they are planning to remove lrc from the game I think it's fair to raise the npc spawn up.
I would love to see a dev response to this since other goods essential to crafting are purchasable in bulk.

 

[Viper09]

Unless they are planning to remove lrc from the game I think it's fair to raise the npc spawn up.
I would love to see a dev response to this since other goods essential to crafting are purchasable in bulk.

Amen on raising the npc spawn.
Personally I would love it if they removed LRC from the game, but that would be a disaster to those who spent 100+ mil on those items. So that wont happen

 

[Jhym]

Probably the same reasoning that they use to not revamp the npc pricing vs resource usage for most items. It's hard to do and involves too many system changes and they're frightened of the 10 year old code.

When I was building my sorceress/scribe many years ago I had to do the reagent dance for weeks on end -- and I didn't enjoy it one bit, though I did manage to come out ahead overall gold-wise at least.

With LRC, it begins to make you think that perhaps we need a revamp of all magery-related stuff. Perhaps Magery/Weaving/Necro need no reagents but more mana -- or perhaps your spellbook actually uses scrolls and potions now as a consumable, so you have to actually purchase them instead.

Alchemy/scribing perhaps still need reagents, in which case you push reagents to the bulk end (batches of 500). If mages have to continually purchase scrolls (charges for their spellbooks) and potions (perhaps power bonuses), then you have a very large new market.

But that would be a major rewrite, and as I said, they are incredibly frightened of the original code. Notice they've never even CONSIDERED adding new spells to magery, but only other types with their own spellbooks.

Simple answer, dear Flutter? Hire some guildmates to get your reagents. Or take up another hobby, perhaps fishing.

 

[T_Amon_from_work]

Because reg farmers would have a field day getting 999 of regs each visit. That's exactly what used to happen ... and the cries about this were rampant thru the land.

Thus the Gods changed it.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

It's hard to do and involves too many system changes and they're frightened of the 10 year old code.

I wonder sometimes, with all the changing of devs and changing of ownership, if they even have anyone left on the dev team that even really understands the original code.

Anyone that has ever worked as a software engineer can tell you, coming in and having to decipher someone else's old code, even if you are really familiar with the language, is extremely difficult unless the previous coders did some really clean and well documented work.

 

[Dude1598]

I was buying regs up like everyone here at the mage shops and was thinking that since I bought the regs out they doubled when they respawned.
What would happen if we sold regs to the vendors and waited for it to respawn, what would happen when they respawned.
Just an idea worth trying out

 

[Flutter]

I wonder sometimes, with all the changing of devs and changing of ownership, if they even have anyone left on the dev team that even really understands the original code.

Anyone that has ever worked as a software engineer can tell you, coming in and having to decipher someone else's old code, even if you are really familiar with the language, is extremely difficult unless the previous coders did some really clean and well documented work.

I'm pretty sure that's why they've been creating this new KR version and hoping against hope that it is successful. No one ever suspected this game would last as long as it has.
In a decade the WOW code will be obsolete too.
I just don't find the working up of regs to be appropriate in today's game.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I just don't find the working up of regs to be appropriate in today's game.

Me either...with LRC and players having so much money, it just doesn't make sense at all.


This would be an easy fix. Unless I am mistaken, a GM could do this. I ran a non-production shard for a while (two of them) and I could make changes to NPC vendor spawns and monster spawns while logged into the client. There was no need to adjust anything on the back end...although it could be done that way as well.

This is just a simple variable that can be changed. Nothing major here at all.

 

[Littleblue]

I wonder sometimes, with all the changing of devs and changing of ownership, if they even have anyone left on the dev team that even really understands the original code.

Anyone that has ever worked as a software engineer can tell you, coming in and having to decipher someone else's old code, even if you are really familiar with the language, is extremely difficult unless the previous coders did some really clean and well documented work.

This is straight on correct, hehe.

Even coming into a network that's not been documented or correctly configured can be a complete nightmare....sometimes never to be salvaged. Replacement of the design and/or equipment and software becomes your only good option. A band-aid on an arterial wound doesn't work too well.

I am amazed that UO is still running strong after all these years. It's quite an accomplishment, considering all the changes to computing in general over those years.

The bugs and unintentional changes that occur with publishes and exist from developments past don't really bother me too much...I tend to be thankful for all the time I spend playing with no real problems to speak of, especially with all the changes and new content that we continue to have the opportunity to experience. As a network engineer, I can relate to the frustration our Devs must be faced with from time to time...suppose I am thankful we've been lucky enough to have so many great minds and personalities maintain and expand our world all this time.

All software packages are buggy...at least all the ones I have worked on in 13years, regardless of price, industry, and even level of expertise of the current developers...and most applications do not offer the level of customization that we have in UO, as well as the depth of non-changeable content (maps, NPCs, Monsters, world building, etc).

I shiver when I think of how many thousands of lines of code make up our beloved world. It takes a developer with a true love of their art and well-practiced patience to work on UO. I think our current and past Devs must have all shared the same passion, at least to some degree...otherwise, I don't think UO would even still be running.

If we had better communication and customer support, UO could really shine! I feel the lesser bugs and kinks would not be as bothersome if we had regular, open communication as well as quality customer support.

Expand the GM's in number and knowledge. Waiting isn't so bad if you feel a solution is on it's way....something other than a damn URL that vaguely applies, if at all.
Make sure telephone support staff are trained with the basics for UO, as well as a clear escalation route for major/emergency issues. Disheartening when your support person hasn't even heard of your game...how can they possibly understand your problem or get you to the correct higher-up? I'd rather take my odds against the house at my favorite casino than bet someone I can't even understand is going to be helpful in solving my problem.

It wouldn't take much to improve the dismal customer service we endure, and it would go a very long way to boosting UO's image and allure to new players and vets alike. Players would be excited to talk about their favorite game again, and new player welcomes wouldn't need a half page disclaimer for issues best ignored.

We've got a good Dev Team right now...they seem to be working to improve a good variety of systems and content for all playstyles, as well as fix bugs and errors. It would be great to see the other areas lacking get some much-needed improvement.

Wow...I'm thinking someone must have put a little extra something in my coffee this morning...

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Problem is, adding GMs and training them and such costs money.

EA/Mythic is not about to spend money on UO right now, at least not in any significant amount.

Once SA comes out, I would think that they are pretty much done with UO and any more expansions for it...unless of course there is a huge influx of paying customers. Which I highly doubt

If EA were smart about it...they do a UO2 now, as the game is already an established franchise...before UO completely dies.

But we have gotten off topic here.

 

[Littleblue]

Back to Flutter's inquiry!

I don't see why reagents shouldn't spawn on vendors in quanities of 999, especially considering all of the other resources that are available in bulk from NPC vendors.

Regging up can be a real pain if things don't go just right!

 

[Kariny]

I think once the vendors everywhere spawn either 500 or 999 the reg sellers won't be an issue. People will be able to buy them anywhere.
The reg sellers were an issue years ago before LRC and right now with ones that buy them up to resell at inflated prices.

With a multitude of locations it will be easy to find vendors that aren't cleaned out. I like Wind on both facets, the mage shop near the Painted caves on both facets, Zento, and recently Ver Lor Reg.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Also, I think the limited reg spawns were there to help prevent unattended macroing. Once the anti-macro code went in, it seemed to me at least, that regs became plentiful again.

Did they reduce the spawns when they took out the anti-macro code?

If so...what's the point? Anybody can put together a 100% LRC suit...as long as that is the only property you care about.

 

[Harlequin]

Why does having the spawn of regs start or stay at 999 necessitate making the price of them go up?
And what's wrong with instantly buying the regs you need? It's a gold sink for UO, and a player wouldn't have to spend the whole day working up the stock.

He is referring to the 2 different stock systems with vendors.

1 - Items that vendor spawns at 20 quantity will remain at the same price, but you need to keep buying out the vendor to get them to double their quantity and eventually reach 999. They have actually increased the starting quantity. Before that, the starting quantity was 10.

2 - Items that spawns at 500 quantity will always have 500. Even when you buy out all 500, the vendor instantly respawns 500 more. However, every 1000 you buy, increases the price.

The devs applied rule 2 to almost all kinds of resources (bottles, threads, cloth, ingots, planks). Regs was not in this list as the impact would be too great. Imagine 50 gp for 1 black pearl... It would kill alchemists/scribes/mages (those that do not have an 100% LRC suit).

I most certainly do not want them to apply rule 2 to regs, I have problems with bottles as it is. And I suspect they won't make a special spawn rule for regs. However, the current system really isn't perfect either. For cloth, planks, ingots, there are easy alternatives for players to make/harvest the resources. For bottles, you need to dig sand and make them. It takes ages to dig up sand. For regs, there are more ways, but it's tedious - pick them off the ground, use green thorns, cat statue, hag quest or kill monsters that carries reg.

I do agree that the stock/restock levels and intervals need to be looked at again.



Regarding the spawn rate, there should be a couple of ways to get around this, but I have not tried them before, so I am not sure if either still works (or if they ever did):

1 - Sell a certain magic number of the same item back to the NPC, then at the next restock, the NPC will spawn 999 of it. I don't remember the magic number though, maybe someone else can remember.

2 - Use a young player to buy.

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

The answer is that economic systems in Ultima Online are largely obsolete. It requires a giant overhaul but I am not sure if the team has the resources to make this happen.

At the very least, prices of EVERYTHING on NPC vendors needs to be raised. There is infinitely more gold in the system now than when these prices were first set up. For instance,one should not be able to spam the lands of Sosaria with their books without investing a substantial amount of gold towards it. We are suffering the effects of this as every tile of our banks are covered with books advertising sites selling exploited gold, throughout the day.

 

[Nestorius]

I'm pretty sure that's why they've been creating this new KR version and hoping against hope that it is successful. No one ever suspected this game would last as long as it has.
In a decade the WOW code will be obsolete too.
I just don't find the working up of regs to be appropriate in today's game.

I guess I feel the opposite because I've been getting so bored with this game, and one of my last characters that I am trying to GM are an inscriber and alchemist so I actually do buy reagents. Having the limited amount on each vendor gets me out of the house. I don't know why one would need 1000 reagents at once. That would hurt. I'll find often I buy up a stock, do my inscribing or alchemy at a location or two, and by that time the stock is replenished. I'm not finding my shard particularly over populated nor have even encountered that many resource buying robots. So, I suppose the reagent system as it is right now is a 'worldly' aspect of the game that offers a little spirit of old UO which keeps me playing.

UO is not 'appropriate for today's game', so I wish people would stop trying to make it so, turning it into a WOW clone.

 

[Wenchkin]

I'm surprised Sam hasn't picked up on this. We know exactly who to blame for this oversight.

ALCHEMISTS!!!!

Once again, they've been working behind the scenes, swiping the regs from mage shops when nobody is looking. Heaven only knows what terrors they'll wreck upon the world if they learn to apply LRC to their mortar and pestles...

On a more serious note, I think this is one of those systems that just needs an update. Even if they made a more useable spawn rate of 100 or something, it'd be a start. It took my alchemist longer to find the regs than to actually train alchemy, inscription wasn't much better lol.

Wenchy

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

UO is not 'appropriate for today's game', so I wish people would stop trying to make it so, turning it into a WOW clone.

I agree...but in order to stop that process, EA/Mythic would have to erase everything that has come since the day before AoS launched...and most of the players would quit when they lost their "l337" and "uber" items.


This game was definately better before it was item based.