Bug: Log in/Log out Saves Pet

[wrekognize]

For most areas where I fight with my pet, I can’t call the pet to the location with a pet summoning ball. examples are Dreadhorn and spawn areas. So I find myself having to log out and in the game multiple times throughout the night. Which is a terrible way to have to play any game.

...

 

[Wenchkin]

For most areas where I fight with my pet, I can’t call the pet to the location with a pet summoning ball. examples are Dreadhorn and spawn areas. So I find myself having to log out and in the game multiple times throughout the night. Which is a terrible way to have to play any game.

...

In areas like that, I just take a mounted pet or walk in the pet/s I want to use. I walk through all the champ spawns with pets just now. It's sometimes a challenge to get to the group of players on the other side, but we get there. Mostly in one piece too

I think there's an argument for making areas either allow pet summoning or block all summoning, including through re-logging. I think it was a bit daft to block pet balls when tamers are clearly going to use the re-logging trick to summon pets instead. If the devs want to block areas, they should do it properly. If they don't, let tamers summon pets with pet crystals. I'm not fussed if summoning in some areas is blocked or not, as long as it's done properly.

Wenchy

 

[drinkbeerallday]

This topic has nothing to do with pet skill/stat loss. We are talking about PvP balance. As long a faction tamer's pets suffer temporary stat/skill loss and the flag rules are fixed I don't care what happens.

Jeez.....

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

So it comes down to the tamer to fight and win, or accept the consequences if they lose. If you don't feel comfortable with losing your pets skill points, then you shouldn't PvP with them.

Once again, you miss the point.

The point is, tamers suffer losses that other classes do not.

So they have a mechanism at their disposal to avoid that.

If you don't like the log out/log in feature, don't use it. That makes almost as much sense as what you posted here.

It has nothing to do with whether or not my pets are killed. If I go to Fel and attack a red, or the more likely situation..., I am attacked by like 5 reds on sight, and my pet dies, it takes me time to re-train the pet. If I manage to kill them...it only costs them insurance.

That is not balanced...no matter how condescendingly you phrase it.

 

[WarUltima]

Once again, you miss the point.

The point is, tamers suffer losses that other classes do not.

And none tamers dont get to use overpowered pet and dish out 200+ damage in 3 seconds neither.

While your "weapons" has nearly 1000hp and melee for 45+ and FB for 55+ and chaining spells on the run... you shouldnt be talking about balance.

This feature was added for tamers to retrive their pets that got lost and the tamer wasnt muture enough to bond their pets to petballs before hands. NOT helping tamers to have an easymode in PvP.

I understand what you are saying. But you obviously dont play a red. You said a blue get ganked by 5 reds that makes it unbalanced, what about a red get ganked by 5 blues? and when the red still managed to kill a few tamers that's ganking him he still cant do jack to the pets.

So again, be grateful you are still able to abuse this feature as an aggressor, and I am ok with that. But you should know the facts that you have to understand is that your pets capable of instant killing any player (if you play your character right) is bypassing the PvP rules that real pvpers have to follow. And tamers like you are actually the ones causing the unbalance in game.

Not arguing if this should be changed or not. If you are absuing/using this feature to gain advantages over regular PvPers (you know not P&PvPers). You are then the one whos causing the unbalance. But it's OK, UO PvP is rarely balanced, so go ahead and enjoy being the reason of the unbalance, the real pvpers are used to it.

Peace out.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

So this, as I expected, is more about acrimony from other classes due to envy rather than game mechanics.

Got it.

I am done with this so-called discussion...because it is more a rant about nerfing tamers than a genuine discussion about game mechanics.

If the devs change this...so be it. Much like when tamers got nerfed with control slots, we will adapt...until we become ineffective, and then we will either quit or learn new skills. It has been so since the inception of Ultima Online, and so shall it be.

 

[WarUltima]

Great, I am glad you can understand. And as OP said this is regarding to PvP pets. If you are not here to discuss how to fix this obvious loophole why you even bother replying. I understand your concern completely.

IMO tamer got buffed. You are not happy with your control slots? OK go back to unlimited pets where the best pets are WW and pet bonding did not exist. At least that way when we do have to fight a tamer all killing in pvp we dont have to worry about perfect stat pets and I can kill their pets and the pets are ERASED from the game after i kill it(facts). So this system is what you are looking for? fine by me. You are whining about a tamer buff and pet specialization and pet bonding as a nerf. Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about. I can have my legendary tamer (real skill w/ title) meet you ingame and show you im not biased. I am standing on a ground where a "more" powerful class with pets that instant kill players yet unbalance the game even further using a ingame design that werent meant to be abused in PvP to gain advantage over other players since their pets can never die.

OP mentioned it many times. This is more like a PvP balance not a tamer NERF. because EVERYONE using a war horse/horse/llama any and ALL living mounts/pets can use this very same tactics.

I dont think the DEV will change it, at least not anytime soon. I watched UO since early 99 and tamers were always one of the most powerful template to play. I am suprisied tamers still retained so much power till today after all the "nerfs" they've gone thru.

 

[Wenchkin]

Once again, you miss the point.

The point is, tamers suffer losses that other classes do not.

So they have a mechanism at their disposal to avoid that.

No, it's not intended to prevent your pet from dying because you lost a PvP battle. It's there to protect you from losing pets should you disconnect and be unable to log in again.

You don't have to PvP, nor do you have to take on more than your pets can handle. If you wanted, you could spend your life farming mongbats, the risks are up to you. But your tamer is a very powerful character, and if you feel that skill loss is too harsh, I think you need to realise how much safer a tamer can be when they're tucked in behind their pets at a spawn. I play a variety of templates, and regardless of the skill loss, my tamers have it easy and I know it.

A warrior is exposed fully to the attack of his enemies, he has to keep his armour in repair and supply himself with resources, tithing points and weapons for those encounters. He can't run around in a flimsy luck suit, so he has an upkeep just like your pets. And while my pets can serve to distract a mob while I heal up, when I'm playing my dexer, I am the sole target. If you think retraining a pet is hard, maybe you should play a warrior for a while.

It has nothing to do with whether or not my pets are killed. If I go to Fel and attack a red, or the more likely situation..., I am attacked by like 5 reds on sight, and my pet dies, it takes me time to re-train the pet. If I manage to kill them...it only costs them insurance.

That is not balanced...no matter how condescendingly you phrase it.

Again, what about when you PvM? Your pets can die in PvM too. It takes me time to retrain pets just as it does for you, and I don't park at a shadow eles for it either. Do you think I don't know how frustrating some fights can be in PvP? But, if you intend to PvP with pets, you have to accept that they will get killed sometimes and deal with the retraining issue. If you have to pay for your insurance costs, then take those pets out and train them at the same time. It works just fine for me. I honestly don't see why you're complaining about this. It's not an issue I've ever thought about. Remember, when bonding first came out we lost a lot more skill points when pets died. Now that was rough, and it was corrected. I had a res' killed mare with skills at horse level briefly lol. We have balance now, and I'm sorry, but, like it or not you're wrong on this one.

I play tamers 99% of my game time, if we were unfairly balanced I'd have noticed it by now. I'm not a PvM or PvP goddess, and if I can keep my pets alive, so can you. Take on what you and your pets can handle, and if you think retraining a pet is a waste of your time, carefully hunt only mobs that it won't die to. I've had pets stabled at the end of the night with a lot less skill than they began the night with. But that teaches me to take better care next time. If I want to keep fully trained pets, I have to take good care of them. That is spot on IMO.

If tamers could let their pets die repeatedly without a skill penalty, they'd just throw them at any insane spawn they liked, hide, wait to res the pet and send it right back in there again. I could farm the snot out of any mob in game if my stealther could pull that trick. Maybe you should think about that final point before you scream unfair about skill loss. Imagine being a warrior and watching a tamer repeatedly flatten a spawn, or group of players with no risk to themselves or their pets. If I take my stealth tamer to Fel right now, I can decide if she'll get killed or lose pets. That isn't right, fair or balanced. I suck at PvP, but I can be a royal pain in the arse to kill if I play lame and log out I don't need to be lame to make a safe getaway, summon my pets and survive with those pets. Neither do you.

Wenchy

 

[IAMTHEWHITERABIT]

True, but most annoying tamers can res and heal their pet quickly enough that it doesn't really make too much of a difference.

I don't think that alot of the Tammers in PVP have vet. They us the skill points for something else so they are unable to res the pet. hence the fear of havomg ot die. Simple solution is if you lose come the pet goes back to the stable. If your in an area that you cannot pet ball into then you'll need to leave to retreive pet. Or may it so that I can insta log in the field to avoid dying.

 

[ColterDC]

So this, as I expected, is more about acrimony from other classes due to envy rather than game mechanics.

How are other classes picking on the poor tamers, when in fact it's TAMERS saying that this should be changed????

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

your tamer is a very powerful character, and if you feel that skill loss is too harsh, I think you need to realise how much safer a tamer can be when they're tucked in behind their pets at a spawn.

Hence why I spent the time, without cheating and scripting, to work my taming up to 115, without jewels.

I understand the power that tamers have. That has never been my issue here.

He can't run around in a flimsy luck suit, so he has an upkeep just like your pets.

My warrior characters can run around in whatever they want. It's a choice.

And while my pets can serve to distract a mob while I heal up, when I'm playing my dexer, I am the sole target. If you think retraining a pet is hard, maybe you should play a warrior for a while.

I have only one tamer on both my accounts. The other characters are all warriors or mages.

I honestly don't see why you're complaining about this.

I didn't start this thread...so I cannot see why anyone thinks I am "complaining" or "whining". I just disagree with the person that actually was complaining...the OP.

I suck at PvP, but I can be a royal pain in the arse to kill if I play lame and log out I don't need to be lame to make a safe getaway, summon my pets and survive with those pets. Neither do you.

Wenchy

I think you must not have read what I posted above...that's okay.

I have never used the log out/log in method during PvP. If I am killed in PvP, I go to a healer, get rez'ed and summon my pets using my pet summoning ball.

My only horse in this race is that I can understand that not every tamer will have that option available in every situation, and may need to resort to logging out and logging in to pull their pet out of a gank situation, or a situation where they will not be able to reach their pet to rez it without being killed numerous times by corpse campers.

I agreed, that the log out/log in method is not the best solution. I would rather see it removed...but the underlying reason that tamers use this is to avoid a penalty that other classes do not suffer in PvP.

So why not level the playing field, remove skill loss for pets in PvP, and take out the ability to log out/log in and summon pets that are agro'ed?

The only way this has any negative affect on any other class is purely a matter of class envy. The person that kills your pet gains nothing from doing so, other than the satisfaction of "sticking it to" a tamer.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

On a slightly different note...


...how would anyone that killed a tamer in PvP know whether or not the tamer logged out and logged in or used a pet ball?

It's not like there is a message that comes up and tells you...so I have a feeling that much of the OP's original complaint is based upon assumptions.

 

[Sam the Scribe]

I keep forgetting about my pet summoning ball.

Ah, then you need an "Orb of Rememberance." This handy artifact is silmilar in appearance to a pet ball. You rub the orb, and based on the current circumstances... it gives you a list of things you should remember.

For example:

At the alchemists shop, rub your orb and it will remind you that you need mandrake and sulphurous ash!

In combat... it will remind you to use your petball!

Of course, you have to remember to rub the orb...

Safe Travels, Sam

 

[drinkbeerallday]

So this, as I expected, is more about acrimony from other classes due to envy rather than game mechanics

No, it's not, it's about PvP balance. You are the one being acrimonious.

I think you've made your point, Morgana. (that a tamer who flags on another player in PvP should be able to use log out/log in or a pet ball to prevent their pets from suffering stat/skill loss when their plans go awry)

Please stop trolling.

Bottom line:

If a tamer is flagged on another player, pet balls should not work, and log out/log in should not work.

You can retrieve your pet when you unflag. (2 minutes after last contact)

This will prevent people from flagging on whoever they want, then being able to save their pet when their plans go awry.

Now if you were really thinking you'd make the following point:

What prevents people from luring pets away and keeping them flagged but not killing them?

That's where I'm re-directing this thread.

Instead of going to great lengths rationalizing why it shouldn't be fixed, let's talk about a solution to the problem.

 

[ColterDC]

...how would anyone that killed a tamer in PvP know whether or not the tamer logged out and logged in or used a pet ball?

Kind of hard to use a petball when you're dead.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Please stop trolling.[/B]

Is this your first time on an internet forum??

Someone disagreeing with you is not "Trolling".

Calling someone a troll because they disagree with you, and taking things they said out of context and threatening to report them...now that is trolling.

What prevents people from luring pets away and keeping them flagged but not killing them?

I mentioned that above. I guess you missed it.

Or maybe you just dismissed that as "Trolling" as well?

 

[drinkbeerallday]

Someone disagreeing with you is not "Trolling".

No, but disagreeing with someone over and over 20 times in the same thread and calling people whiners and complainers IS trolling.

You are trying to de-rail this thread and get it locked. I hate to break it to you but this is not going away until a solution is implemented in-game.

It is a SEVERE PvP balance issue.

In the meantime, I feel that anyone exploiting this to save their pet should be permanently banned from Ultima Online. You being the first one.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Kind of hard to use a petball when you're dead.

They have these little guys that roam around in brown robes and ressurrect people...they call them healers.

Perhaps you have heard of them?

Also, there are a couple of spells that accomplish the same feat. Rumor also has it, that a player with the proper skill, and some bandages can even do the same.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

No, but disagreeing with someone over and over 20 times in the same thread is trolling and calling them a whiner and a complainer IS trolling.

I think if you will go back up in the thread, you will see it was you that first threw out the phrase "whiner".

If you want this to degrade into personal attacks, it can...but I would prefer to remain on the topic at hand.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

You are trying to de-rail this thread and get it locked. I hate to break it to you but this is not going away until a solution is implemented in-game.

It is a SEVERE PvP balance issue.

In the meantime, I feel that anyone exploiting this to save their pet should be permanently banned from Ultima Online. You being the first one.

Hahahahaha!!

You must be drunk or something.

It sounds to me like you are the one trying to get the thread locked...

...so far you have:

- Called me a Troll

- Called me a whiner

- Threatened to report me using words you have taken out of context

- Accused me of trying to get the thread locked

- Called me a cheater

- Accused me of using an exploit you didn't witness

- and have been an all-around jack ass.


You need to be able to discuss things with people that disagree with you without resorting to acting like a 12 year old.


I disagree with your point. I think tamers need a mechanism to remove their pets from situations where players would trap or block their pets. I think tamers should have a right to have their pets summoned back to them without skill loss in PvP as long as warriors and mages and archers retain their weapons with no loss of stats on those weapons.

NONE of that is a personal attack on you.

They are my opinions and the fact that they run counter to yours does not make me a troll, or any other derisive term you would like to assign to me.

 

[Wenchkin]

My warrior characters can run around in whatever they want. It's a choice.

Then you'll know that you need to maintain that equipment and resources they require to do their hunting.

I have never used the log out/log in method during PvP. If I am killed in PvP, I go to a healer, get rez'ed and summon my pets using my pet summoning ball.

My only horse in this race is that I can understand that not every tamer will have that option available in every situation, and may need to resort to logging out and logging in to pull their pet out of a gank situation, or a situation where they will not be able to reach their pet to rez it without being killed numerous times by corpse campers.

I think any flaws in the system need to be cleared up (for example the suggestion I made about having pets time out and go to the stables). I get ganked, go to crazy places and all sorts, so I know what risks there are. But there could also be a fix where only PvP combat flags would prevent the tamer's pet from logging out with them. So that PvM tamers wouldn't have a problem. There are ways of satisfying tamers and PvPers with this.

I agreed, that the log out/log in method is not the best solution. I would rather see it removed...but the underlying reason that tamers use this is to avoid a penalty that other classes do not suffer in PvP.

I feel I'm hitting my head against a wall here. How can you use non tamers and not realise that their equipment needs to be maintained too? That they have to put plenty into keeping themselves supplied and protected. A pet must maintain its skills and a warrior who doesn't repair his kit will have it crumble. A tamer who takes care of their pets can avoid skill loss penalties entirely. My warrior has to stop hunting to get that

So why not level the playing field, remove skill loss for pets in PvP, and take out the ability to log out/log in and summon pets that are agro'ed?

The only way this has any negative affect on any other class is purely a matter of class envy. The person that kills your pet gains nothing from doing so, other than the satisfaction of "sticking it to" a tamer.

Re-read the last para of my post again, before you write off the skill penalty:

If tamers could let their pets die repeatedly without a skill penalty, they'd just throw them at any insane spawn they liked, hide, wait to res the pet and send it right back in there again. I could farm the snot out of any mob in game if my stealther could pull that trick. Maybe you should think about that final point before you scream unfair about skill loss. Imagine being a warrior and watching a tamer repeatedly flatten a spawn, or group of players with no risk to themselves or their pets. If I take my stealth tamer to Fel right now, I can decide if she'll get killed or lose pets. That isn't right, fair or balanced. I suck at PvP, but I can be a royal pain in the arse to kill if I play lame and log out I don't need to be lame to make a safe getaway, summon my pets and survive with those pets. Neither do you.

So it's not about sticking anything to a tamer. I'm a tamer, and I'm very far from stuck. But logging out has no place in the PvP book of tactics, even the lamers version. I would prefer if tamers didn't log out beside me in PvM situations (the only thing more annoying than an area peace junkie ) but experience has taught me the necessity of watching other tamers pet bars for a little advance warning lol. It would just be nice if tamers felt the need to take care of their pets, rather than use them as pixel meat shields.

Wenchy

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I feel I'm hitting my head against a wall here...If tamers could let their pets die repeatedly without a skill penalty, they'd just throw them at any insane spawn they liked, hide, wait to res the pet and send it right back in there again. I could farm the snot out of any mob in game...

I am feeling the exact same way...because it is blantantly obvious that you didn't both to read what I posted.

I said:

Skill loss for pets should be removed for PvP

What does that have to do with Mobs and Spawns?

I am only talking about when your pet is killed by a human player...not a Mob or Spawn.

 

[WarUltima]

Morgana, I am glad at least you admit that this is indeed a problem when abused in PvP. I dont know if you use it or not but I will say... "The majority players especially tamers abuse this mechnism".

Petballs use powder and and has 2 second casting time, and cannot be used as a ghost. Log in and out is much easier especially when you are dead. This funtion made petball nearly useless. Petball was introduced for a reason, but now it's obsolete.

The changes here suggested by many posters are very reasonable and will not affect PvM at all. When I ebolt a deamon I dont go into flee timer so it shouldnt affect tamers neither. When I see a red/blue/gray and I WANT to attack him before they do anything to me, I cannot flee unless I kill them/get killed or hide and run the timer out. Tamers pet should follow the same logic. and the whole zero point one(0.1) skill loss per death on the pet can be viewed as an incentive of killing the beast with 1000hp that can mow them over instantly if not being careful.

DEV said they are going to balance pets in PvP (it is very ******** rightnow) which is a good start. If tamers and pets in PvP were reasonably balanced then many abusive features tamers have can be ignore, EVEN the pet stat-loss.