So exactly how is the game better.

[RavenWinterHawk]

Sooo....
We get replica drops, balms, tots and have to go to the same spots and camp to get.

Wow. Thats fun.

We get to 1 of 4 Holiday gifts. Ohhh.


So my question is... is this fun?

Wheres the exporability? Wheres the random random?

In a matter of 2 days someone will have maps/spoilers out every drop and new items.

In a matter of 3 weeks everything will be farmed and sitting on vendors so you can have one. Basically trumping hours of fighting to get one yourself.

DEVS I am begging you to address the excess amount of gold that allows players to buy anything.

Example. Hmmm new item 10 million. Let me go by 20 million gold for $14.
Example. Wow you spent 20 hours to get that robe, Ill give you 10 million for it.

Maybe its me but I just see another fluff of changes that are going to be effected by the same old issues.

I suppose Im bitter and alone.

 

[Petra Fyde]

well, I've just spent some time getting the new potions on test. I was doing something I'd never done before, stealing from monsters. I had loads of fun and am looking forward to doing it with my little doom/dojo thief on Europa.

While I admit test isn't exactly the busiest server in the set, I didn't see another character while I was collecting them, so maybe not all spots they can be gotten from will be camped?

 

[Maplestone]

I certainly have no excess gold and am confident that I will never reach a point where I have everything.

If you don't want spoilers, don't read them.
If you feel you have excess gold, trash cans are standing by.

Do you not want anyone to have the new shiney things?
- ask for more BOD-like systems (without the reissue-on-turnin so its limited tries per day, at least for the first few years)

Do you want to not have the new shiney things yourself?
- then don't farm them to death - make it more challenging for yourself.

Do you want to have the new new shiney things while others don't?
- my answer to this one wouldn't be terribly polite.

Alas, I have no cure for bitterness

 

[canary]

Raven if you know where to get 20 gold for 14 bucks PLEASE pm me... that's a STEAL!



PS Maplestone said it best, and give this newest team time. Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[Violence]

Yeah but this ain't Rome. And it's not been just a day..

Gold should be costing you 0.8 or 0.7 per million, anything else is just you buying off the wrong people. Just support your local duper. No, really. To be honest it should cost like 0.5 per but it's complicated.

Maple you may have no excess but I remember people claiming they make that much gold in an hour or something with a "special method" and that was supposedly legit. And I seem to remember your name among the posters who replied to that thread but I could be wrong.. So anyway Raven's got a point here.

As for the rest I'm afraid I must agree, although Ultima right now seems unable to make up its mind. Permanent items or not? Etc etc. All this has leads us off topic though.
The way I read it Raven suggests there should be some real adventuring involved.
Also you cannot really suggest this :

"Then don't farm them to death - make it more challenging for yourself."

Why would someone handicap themselves so the best items aren't easy to get? That should be the game's job to keep interest up. And why would someone farm something to death again and again just because they decided that from today, it's gonna start losing DUR.? Come on..

Oh and there's no option to "Not have the shiny things yourself" because you know what happens then.

 

[phantus]

Most people won't have all the stuff they want in 3 weeks. The power gamers and power merchants(and power dupers of course) will.

This next publish will get a lot of people out to spawn. Whether in fel or in tram it will do it nicely. There will be lots of people that will get to do their first labyrinth, bedlam and weald spawns.

This just may give enough incentive for people to play UO over the holidays and have fun until they have more pictures to show us for SA.

I also agree with Sick in regards to the temporary item thing. If they made enough content on a timely basis we wouldn't need to go through this temporary item crap that makes no sense in an item based game. Maybe when imbuing and SA changes come out it will make sense. Right now it's worthless.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Im just saying DEVS toss in a few fragments of explorability. The random kind.


Now for gold. Here you go. Get the new items sell them fast at luna. Youll have 50 million before you know it. Ive posted vending tips forever.


Let see made 29 million
1. collected threads sold them 100k to start in luna
2. sold the rubble from magencia for 1-2 million first days
3. Now you can buy all the rubble items for 200k or less. I am finding the for 65k on atlantic and threads are dead.

The above is the flaw. Sure I walk away with gold. But I dont need it.
Take the 29 million gold.
Buy 10 barbed kits. Now I have the suit I that lasts forever.
Take the 9 million. Buy a weapon for a million. Great.
Take the 8 million rebuy stuff and resell it.




Stealing... I actually dusted off my theif and slapped on all the gear and and have 113 stealing.

I am taking that as my fun from this.

 

[Maplestone]

S!ckLoveR:

I'm not saying there aren't ways to make oodles of gold - I just haven't found any that are fun for me. Just because you can do a thing, it does not automatically follow that you must do that thing. I've replied to a few such things - the only make-money-fast scheme posted around here that I tried that actually worked was reselling cloth from a recently-invaded town to Luna, cashing in on the wild difference in price. I made a million gp in under an hour but after that experiment, decided I didn't feel comfortable profiting off of what might have been scripter-distorted prices, so stopped). I will never pay real $$ for in-game gold/stuff (er ... except the occassional token from EA).

I don't rush to the endgame, I don't try to "beat" the game. If I want to achieve something in the game, I try not to let it become an all-consuming-do-anything-to-get-it passion. When it stops being fun, I stop (well, except taming 2000 drakes for the zoo collection title - that quest became a multi-month nightly duel of wills between me and my keyboard).

I just wander around in the lands, poking around, exploring and having fun. I play with all sorts of quirky personal restrictions: no bad-karma characters (training a necromancer is proving hard), my main-account characters who lose lord status must quit whatever they are doing and farm fame until they get back (had a bad crimson battle last night where I had to take three timeouts to regain the title), no visiting Fel ever (so far, and for the forseeable future, power scrolls have been my ultimate gold sink).

The only times the riches of my neighbours bothers me is when the design of game systems have to be warped/nerfed to keep powergamers/scripters/expoiters from completely flooding the game.

Now if were a PvP player, I might care more about a level playing field - but in that case, wouldn't having everything quickly accessable to everyone be the more-desired state?

Anyway, that was a bit of a ramble. I'm not trying to say the game is perfect, because there is always room for expansion and polish. I'm not going to say my way is the "right" way to play, because I don't believe there is such a thing as a right way to play. I just wanted to try to explain the mindset I come in with as example in the hopes it would help, since it it seems like I am generally happier about playing than the OP.

(a little snarkiness might have snuck in to my post as well, but that's what I get for hanging around U.Hall too long)

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Yeah but this ain't Rome. And it's not been just a day..

Gold should be costing you 0.8 or 0.7 per million, anything else is just you buying off the wrong people. Just support your local duper. No, really. To be honest it should cost like 0.5 per but it's complicated.

Maple you may have no excess but I remember people claiming they make that much gold in an hour or something with a "special method" and that was supposedly legit. And I seem to remember your name among the posters who replied to that thread but I could be wrong.. So anyway Raven's got a point here.

As for the rest I'm afraid I must agree, although Ultima right now seems unable to make up its mind. Permanent items or not? Etc etc. All this has leads us off topic though.
The way I read it Raven suggests there should be some real adventuring involved.
Also you cannot really suggest this :

"Then don't farm them to death - make it more challenging for yourself."

Why would someone handicap themselves so the best items aren't easy to get? That should be the game's job to keep interest up. And why would someone farm something to death again and again just because they decided that from today, it's gonna start losing DUR.? Come on..

Oh and there's no option to "Not have the shiny things yourself" because you know what happens then.

Dead on. A game is meant to be a challenge not a game I police to handicap myself.
Im sure I could play with my computer screen off. That would rock.

As for gold see my other post. Everytime new items come out any player 1 day old or 10 years old stands to make 50 million gold.

Thats the problem. GOLD GOLD GOLD. Well one of them.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

S!ckLoveR:

I'm not saying there aren't ways to make oodles of gold - I just haven't found any that are fun for me. Just because you can do a thing, it does not automatically follow that you must do that thing. I've replied to a few such things - the only make-money-fast scheme posted around here that I tried that actually worked was reselling cloth from a recently-invaded town to Luna, cashing in on the wild difference in price. I made a million gp in under an hour but after that experiment, decided I didn't feel comfortable profiting off of what might have been scripter-distorted prices, so stopped). I will never pay real $$ for in-game gold/stuff (er ... except the occassional token from EA).

I don't rush to the endgame, I don't try to "beat" the game. If I want to achieve something in the game, I try not to let it become an all-consuming-do-anything-to-get-it passion. When it stops being fun, I stop (well, except taming 2000 drakes for the zoo collection title - that quest became a multi-month nightly duel of wills between me and my keyboard).

I just wander around in the lands, poking around, exploring and having fun. I play with all sorts of quirky personal restrictions: no bad-karma characters (training a necromancer is proving hard), my main-account characters who lose lord status must quit whatever they are doing and farm fame until they get back (had a bad crimson battle last night where I had to take three timeouts to regain the title), no visiting Fel ever (so far, and for the forseeable future, power scrolls have been my ultimate gold sink).

The only times the riches of my neighbours bothers me is when the design of game systems have to be warped/nerfed to keep powergamers/scripters/expoiters from completely flooding the game.

Now if were a PvP player, I might care more about a level playing field - but in that case, wouldn't having everything quickly accessable to everyone be the more-desired state?

Anyway, that was a bit of a ramble. I'm not trying to say the game is perfect, because there is always room for expansion and polish. I'm not going to say my way is the "right" way to play, because I don't believe there is such a thing as a right way to play. I just wanted to try to explain the mindset I come in with as example in the hopes it would help, since it it seems like I am generally happier about playing than the OP.

(a little snarkiness might have snuck in to my post as well, but that's what I get for hanging around U.Hall too long)

"I just wander around in the lands, poking around, exploring and having fun. I play with all sorts of quirky personal restrictions: no bad-karma characters (training a necromancer is proving hard), my main-account characters who lose lord status must quit whatever they are doing and farm fame until they get back (had a bad crimson battle last night where I had to take three timeouts to regain the title), no visiting Fel ever (so far, and for the forseeable future, power scrolls have been my ultimate gold sink)."

Thats it. The I just wander, poke around, and explore. Thats whats lacking. Imagine poking around the same area and finding new stuff.

 

[Maplestone]

Thats it. The I just wander, poke around, and explore. Thats whats lacking. Imagine poking around the same area and finding new stuff.

But isn't that what is going to happen? New things added to old systems. All I'm saying is that it sounds like the only thing standing between the game you have and the game you want to have is the speed at which you are going to devour spoilers and attack the new content. You may not like the idea of handicapping yourself, but it really sounds like if you got into roleplaying, you would have the game you wanted.

As for gold, it's unclear to me if you feel you personally have too much or too little spending power, so I don't know what to suggest ... but in the end, the number of 0's at the end of the count really doesn't make any difference - if you divide all the accumulated and dropping gold in the game by 10 or 100, nothing logically changes. We have some wild hoards/imbalances between people based on the way gold of all types legitimate or illegitimate, spirals into a limited number of hands, but that's really a question for the people with billions of gp to answer. What sort of wealth-endgame would make them willingly surrender their amassed gold? (other than to another player)

 

[ColterDC]

The UO Dev team's strategy for the last 6 years reminds me of how I deal with my puppy.

When it bugs me I throw something shiny at him and he leaves me alone for a little while.

Current UO players are like that dumb, easily entertained puppy.

 

[Maplestone]

As opposed to ... ?

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

But isn't that what is going to happen? New things added to old systems. All I'm saying is that it sounds like the only thing standing between the game you have and the game you want to have is the speed at which you are going to devour spoilers and attack the new content. You may not like the idea of handicapping yourself, but it really sounds like if you got into roleplaying, you would have the game you wanted.

As for gold, it's unclear to me if you feel you personally have too much or too little spending power, so I don't know what to suggest ... but in the end, the number of 0's at the end of the count really doesn't make any difference - if you divide all the accumulated and dropping gold in the game by 10 or 100, nothing logically changes. We have some wild hoards/imbalances between people based on the way gold of all types legitimate or illegitimate, spirals into a limited number of hands, but that's really a question for the people with billions of gp to answer. What sort of wealth-endgame would make them willingly surrender their amassed gold? (other than to another player)

We are on different pages of the same book. The difference is new things added to the STATIC systems. Those things. (YES I HAVE TO MUCH GOLD) Can easily be bought. Spending 10 hours grinding killing the same things I killed before just to get something...isnt fun.

Exploring new places and finding them is. Things you really have to find that arent static.

Sure I could give me gold away. Oh I do. Lots. I learned how to vend and love being what I call a gm merchant. I make millions.

Buy commodity deed boxes 5 million sell for 7 million.
Bought spider web deeds for 2 million sold for 4 million.

You see there is so much gold out there that you can get it quickly.

Its a game flaw.
cheats bring in the gold.
people buy the gold.
Dupers dupe the gold.
I sell stuff and get the abused gold.

Think about it.

 

[Gandie]

What UO need is not really new items or rebuilding of old systems like champspawns/faction/doom bosses... and so on.

We need new, well thought out, systems, that will keep peoples attention for more then 1 month.

 

[5% Luck]

Am I wrong to assume the invasions will be modifyed or even event changinf this pub?

I mean are we going to see shadow lords again will there be platnuim dragons raring their heads around britan?

Black Rock!

Massive invasions that dont last for 20 mins abut a few hours with higher end mobs with more HP and damage!

Super generals with more item type drops?

Isnt that this next pub and no one said anything since pub 56!

I could be wrong. These invasions might just teeter away to meaninglessness if everyone is champ spawning but i doubt thats the case!

 

[Maplestone]

I learned how to vend and love being what I call a gm merchant. I make millions.

Ok, so now we're getting to it - you're saying they need to nerf merchants, to take gold away from you in a way that doesn't take day-to-day gold away from me and doesn't completely kill your love of being able to wheel and deal.

You're at the bottom of the gold sink - one of those people to whom gold is flow and now its flooding you. You can play the economy so much more efficiently than you can play the rest of the game.

If I'm hunting for items and putting them up for sale and you're able to buy 3, sell 2 to make back your money and keep one for yourself, then the number of gold pieces swapping around is irrelevant - in terms of purchasing power, you get the same reward no matter whether the number of gold is 10s or 10s of millions, whether the drops are uncommon or ultra-rare - its still spiraling to you.

To make balance your merchant playstyle, a way has to be found to lower or eliminate your profit margin. Here are a few ideas:

1) high inflation / rebasing: instead of removing gold, increase it, dump more gold on the market, in ever-increasing amounts through the year, then "reset the currency" at the end of each year: new coins are minted that replace the previous year's gold by 10 at the end of each year to keep the numbers of 0s from going crazy. This allows trading while devaluing any stockpiles. gold: use it or lose it. Downside: this actually probably doesn't stop you from making a huge short-term profit to fund your trade-instead-of-play needs, but does limit the window for hoarding gold.

2) A public auction system, where everyone competes equally. Don't do away with vendors, but cap the amount you could price an item on a vendor for to 10,000gp and then have a global auction for all higher-priced items. This creates two vendor playstyles - the steady, reliable low-end merchant and the high-flying wheeler-and-dealer who could still profit on speculating the timing the buying and selling of items (however it would also make original hunters better able to make direct sales).

3) Move the game from being item-based to achievement-based. Instead of gold as a reward, greatly expand the virtue system. Have non-item/gold-based systems of quests that can result in an "achievement" (based around one of the virtues). Each character has an inventory of thier achievements and allow one achievement per virtue to be "equipped" for different buffs/effects/titles. Make some achievements temporary, some renewable with a lesser quest, some permanent (just as some items are permanent/repairable/consumable) Essentially, these achievements become unbuyable, untradable items.

 

[Duskofdead]

There's a really simple way to deal with chronic farming/mass supply issues.

Tag certain drops so that a given account can only have one of them at a time. It can be in their inventory, their bank, or on one of their vendors. But that account can only have one.

So if you want to sell them and farm them, that's fine. But you won't be able to farm another one till the one you have up for sale sells.

WOW and other MMORPG's already do this in myriad variations, such as, for example, quest items that will never drop for you again if you have it on your person or in your bank. But if you destroy it or otherwise get rid of it somehow, then you can get another one to drop for your quest.

It doesn't seem like it would be really hard, but I'm also left wondering if in terms of design decisions for UO, if they are really in any position to do anything... however reasonable, that might give powergamers and powerfarmers a reason to stop playing. It seems like a good portion of the still existing playerbase are one of those two types of players. I've run into only one RP player and two or three (youngs) since coming back to UO. But plenty, plenty of people who have huge houses and multiple 7xGm characters. I think pretending that powerfarmers and powergrinders are a small minority and even not representative of most of the posters here would be inaccurate or wishful thinking, sadly.

 

[Duskofdead]

P.S. It is still plenty hard to make decent gold as someone who is not developed, doesn't have a house and a bunch of vendors, and doesn't farm or trade rares all day. Don't nerf the economy overall. (Try making a profit at 30, 40 or 50-90 really in any of the profession skills... it's practically getting like WOW in terms of having to "buy" your skill ups because the items you create en masse to increase your prof skills generally won't sell to players at all and won't sell to NPC vendors without taking a loss generally.)

If you're going to nerf something, nerf whatever it is all you developed players are getting when you farm dragons or champ spawns or whatever it is you are all doing. Because you all seem plenty rich from my point of view.

WOW should be taken as a case in point that nerfing the economy overall doesn't stop mass inflation of wealth at the top, all it does is make the game a lot harder and the "entry fee" to reach the top much, much higher (even prohibitive) for players who are behind the curve.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Ok, so now we're getting to it - you're saying they need to nerf merchants, to take gold away from you in a way that doesn't take day-to-day gold away from me and doesn't completely kill your love of being able to wheel and deal.

You're at the bottom of the gold sink - one of those people to whom gold is flow and now its flooding you. You can play the economy so much more efficiently than you can play the rest of the game.

If I'm hunting for items and putting them up for sale and you're able to buy 3, sell 2 to make back your money and keep one for yourself, then the number of gold pieces swapping around is irrelevant - in terms of purchasing power, you get the same reward no matter whether the number of gold is 10s or 10s of millions, whether the drops are uncommon or ultra-rare - its still spiraling to you.

To make balance your merchant playstyle, a way has to be found to lower or eliminate your profit margin. Here are a few ideas:

1) high inflation / rebasing: instead of removing gold, increase it, dump more gold on the market, in ever-increasing amounts through the year, then "reset the currency" at the end of each year: new coins are minted that replace the previous year's gold by 10 at the end of each year to keep the numbers of 0s from going crazy. This allows trading while devaluing any stockpiles. gold: use it or lose it. Downside: this actually probably doesn't stop you from making a huge short-term profit to fund your trade-instead-of-play needs, but does limit the window for hoarding gold.

2) A public auction system, where everyone competes equally. Don't do away with vendors, but cap the amount you could price an item on a vendor for to 10,000gp and then have a global auction for all higher-priced items. This creates two vendor playstyles - the steady, reliable low-end merchant and the high-flying wheeler-and-dealer who could still profit on speculating the timing the buying and selling of items (however it would also make original hunters better able to make direct sales).

3) Move the game from being item-based to achievement-based. Instead of gold as a reward, greatly expand the virtue system. Have non-item/gold-based systems of quests that can result in an "achievement" (based around one of the virtues). Each character has an inventory of thier achievements and allow one achievement per virtue to be "equipped" for different buffs/effects/titles. Make some achievements temporary, some renewable with a lesser quest, some permanent (just as some items are permanent/repairable/consumable) Essentially, these achievements become unbuyable, untradable items.

Well sort of.
What I am really saying is the system isnt flawed by what I can do.
Its flawed in that gold is never removed from the game at any significant level.

Changing gold levels. Replacing gold wouldnt work. What every you did would just take on the value.

The fact that there is not way to remove gold in a fun way... is a problem.


Now lets say gold is fixed.

Its not how much gold I have but how easy it is to vend with the current system.

Its not me or vendors, its the fact that items can be farmed. If you can farm them with a set rate. Well I can sell them as you said. I buy 3. Keep 1 if I want (but usually not) and make a profit selling 2.

You have some good ideas.

Remember a public system that would allow
My ROLE PLAYING black market kingpin...
To search and acquire with ease, will only strengthen his empire.

 

[the 4th man]

Im just saying DEVS toss in a few fragments of explorability. The random kind.


Now for gold. Here you go. Get the new items sell them fast at luna. Youll have 50 million before you know it. Ive posted vending tips forever.


Let see made 29 million
1. collected threads sold them 100k to start in luna
2. sold the rubble from magencia for 1-2 million first days
3. Now you can buy all the rubble items for 200k or less. I am finding the for 65k on atlantic and threads are dead.

The above is the flaw. Sure I walk away with gold. But I dont need it.
Take the 29 million gold.
Buy 10 barbed kits. Now I have the suit I that lasts forever.
Take the 9 million. Buy a weapon for a million. Great.
Take the 8 million rebuy stuff and resell it.




Stealing... I actually dusted off my theif and slapped on all the gear and and have 113 stealing.

I am taking that as my fun from this.

Providing your stuff sells, for one, and IF you have the gold to keep feeding a vendor, and you can afford the renatl rates in Luna.....I don't buy your, it's so easy to make gold" bit.....but I do agree at the pathetic and sad amounts of gold players have to buy because of sheer laziness.....

later

 

[Xalan Dementia]

just make all non craftable/enhanceable items linked to the players account. then vendors will be better cuz theyd only sell crafted/gathered/enhanced items and everyone would have to earn thier high end items. This of course wouldnt happen because the gold farmers would cry and it seems the unwanted players out number the players who see uo as a great game and not just a way to make money. to get rid of already existing gold, make a collection that only accepts gold and rewards something people would want to drop gold on.

 

[Maplestone]

The fact that there is not way to remove gold in a fun way... is a problem.

Once a player hits 100 million gold in the bank / vendor / house, a dragon-invasion event triggers, steals 90% of the gold, temporarily decorating destard with a carpet of treasure graphics and an assortment of otherwise-unavailable-loot and items marked with the poor merchant's name. You lose a lot of wealth, but get 15 minutes of shard-wide fame

 

[Canucklehead73]

Ok so I might be jaded and paranoid... But I can't help it.

I find myself wondering if raven just wants randomness and explorability so they can find an item to "sell" in some random area, so they do not have to wait in line at a farming spot, or even better have to share anything with anyone... Helps drive up the profits.

Sorry it's just my personal issue with players who will ONLY do things IF they can get something to sell later...

 

[Harlequin]

Sooo....
We get replica drops, balms, tots and have to go to the same spots and camp to get.

Wow. Thats fun.

We get to 1 of 4 Holiday gifts. Ohhh.


So my question is... is this fun?

Wheres the exporability? Wheres the random random?

In a matter of 2 days someone will have maps/spoilers out every drop and new items.

In a matter of 3 weeks everything will be farmed and sitting on vendors so you can have one. Basically trumping hours of fighting to get one yourself.

DEVS I am begging you to address the excess amount of gold that allows players to buy anything.

Example. Hmmm new item 10 million. Let me go by 20 million gold for $14.
Example. Wow you spent 20 hours to get that robe, Ill give you 10 million for it.

Maybe its me but I just see another fluff of changes that are going to be effected by the same old issues.

I suppose Im bitter and alone.

For the champ spawn items, the altars may be at the same locations, but the champ that spawns will be randomly determined (only a couple like oaks, sleeping dragon, merkatus are fixed).

So essentially, it's like a boss that can spawn anytime and almost anywhere in several dungeons/t2a/ish that has an altar. If they removed the altar restriction and made it spawn anywhere randomly, you'll have another group of players that complains they can't find it.

So I think there's enough randomness there already.

As to the excess amount of gold, maybe one way is to implement in game lottery? You buy tickets from an NPC called Ghreed, and get a chance to receive an arty?

(The names have been changed, but the event is real. Or at least oddly familiar to another game )