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It absolutely has a future and can definitely be good. It's just a question of when the Dev team will focus on finishing what they started. Hopefully the weeks won't turn into months w/o word on what the Dev team plans for the client. Right now I'm still in the "when" line of thinking. I am not looking forward to moving towards "if"...
J
Jermosh
Guest
I think its awesome, I just wish we had some of the same programing that UOA has, I still need to jump into 2d for UOA on some things.
I
imperterritus
Guest
I enjoy playing the enhanced client, and hate playing the classic client. For one thing, my screen is 1920x1080 (23" HD), and in the classic client, everything is too damn small and can't be made bigger. EC feels more modern and is just nicer to use all the way around.
Oh, did I mention that it's quicker?
Oh, did I mention that it's quicker?
F
Fink
Guest
For me, the main detractor is the inability to set zoom pixel ratio 1:1.
It really spoils what could be a good-looking client. With all the pancakes back and forth "I like old graphics" "I like new graphics" "hey old graphics are back, neat" "omfg why abandon KR art?" "res is too low" "scaling is off"... I find myself favouring the Classic client with anything I have to "look at" for any length of time. I do prefer the new art, just not messed up as it currently stands.
And yes, I find what it looks like to be important. Everyone places a certain value on looks no matter how much they say gameplay is king, or we'd have magenta and cyan boxes representing characters, running around clicking on giant X's to get shiny O's.
I find the EC to play well, run well, function well.. generally more polished & stable than Classic in many respects, even excelling in some areas. It does everything well enough but look good, and really that's your first impression you have to address. Oh, and the sounds need remastering, those scratchy old 11KHz sounds.
Sort out the horrid scaling (default should be 1:1) and promise me you'll "get around to" re-doing sounds, and I'm sure the client has a future.
It really spoils what could be a good-looking client. With all the pancakes back and forth "I like old graphics" "I like new graphics" "hey old graphics are back, neat" "omfg why abandon KR art?" "res is too low" "scaling is off"... I find myself favouring the Classic client with anything I have to "look at" for any length of time. I do prefer the new art, just not messed up as it currently stands.
And yes, I find what it looks like to be important. Everyone places a certain value on looks no matter how much they say gameplay is king, or we'd have magenta and cyan boxes representing characters, running around clicking on giant X's to get shiny O's.
I find the EC to play well, run well, function well.. generally more polished & stable than Classic in many respects, even excelling in some areas. It does everything well enough but look good, and really that's your first impression you have to address. Oh, and the sounds need remastering, those scratchy old 11KHz sounds.
Sort out the horrid scaling (default should be 1:1) and promise me you'll "get around to" re-doing sounds, and I'm sure the client has a future.
As long as people keep crashing to desktop when in graphically intense areas, the EC has no chance.
As long as there is no feedback from the developers, the EC has no chance (even if the feedback is someone posting once every couple of weeks saying "we're looking into these issues."
As long as the graphics stay in their current low resolution state, many people will resist moving over.
It will never have a 100% rate, as some people just prefer the classic client, but it could do better than 6 people on an entire shard using it (Catskills average at about 5 PM EST from what I've seen)
As long as there is no feedback from the developers, the EC has no chance (even if the feedback is someone posting once every couple of weeks saying "we're looking into these issues."
As long as the graphics stay in their current low resolution state, many people will resist moving over.
It will never have a 100% rate, as some people just prefer the classic client, but it could do better than 6 people on an entire shard using it (Catskills average at about 5 PM EST from what I've seen)
I have lost the hope, because KR was buggy and not ready, but this client is in a beta, but in what type of beta, in a beta full of Devs scripting on the Server or creating worlds. Fixing serverside bugs which they better had fixed the last years of silence.
In KR there was the naked bug, still there, in KR was an anayoing hotbar counting bug, fixed, but for that we got:
- mirrors on screen
- extreme low resolution
- bad soundsystem (too loud spells, have you ever heard an incomming player, who is mounted?)
- lag of other players
And the so increased stability:
Yeah lets calculate, if the client can handle maybe 1.2 GB of memory, before a system begins which is buggy to clean the memory.( Seems to be only for more core cpus )
The way of
, hey i increase stability in reducing the animation resolution, because then it is clear if a animation only costs 1 MB instead of 2 MB rendered, i have a stability increase of 100%, sounds good but is that a solution of the problem itself?
Also i want say a few words about the increased performance:
The same is here, reducing the resolution may increase the performance, but you see it here very clear, a pc which cant play with KR, cant also play with SA. The system itself, the way how it is rendered, which engine is used, is important. What i think the Devs have todo is to go to the beginnig, to the beginnig of the core, to the first versions of KR, but sometimes it is also better to say the engine is bad and we cancel it!
In KR there was the naked bug, still there, in KR was an anayoing hotbar counting bug, fixed, but for that we got:
- mirrors on screen
- extreme low resolution
- bad soundsystem (too loud spells, have you ever heard an incomming player, who is mounted?)
- lag of other players
And the so increased stability:
Yeah lets calculate, if the client can handle maybe 1.2 GB of memory, before a system begins which is buggy to clean the memory.( Seems to be only for more core cpus )
The way of
, hey i increase stability in reducing the animation resolution, because then it is clear if a animation only costs 1 MB instead of 2 MB rendered, i have a stability increase of 100%, sounds good but is that a solution of the problem itself?Also i want say a few words about the increased performance:
The same is here, reducing the resolution may increase the performance, but you see it here very clear, a pc which cant play with KR, cant also play with SA. The system itself, the way how it is rendered, which engine is used, is important. What i think the Devs have todo is to go to the beginnig, to the beginnig of the core, to the first versions of KR, but sometimes it is also better to say the engine is bad and we cancel it!
I think the EC is great. I see some nice improvements over KR and although I would go back to 2d if I had too, it would take me awhile to get used to it again. There still are quite a few bugs left I hope they fix soon. I've become used to them which is my fault, I should whine about them more I guess. Anyway I think its here to stay and hope the DEV's really improve it!
It's the same team that worked on it from before 2007 when KR came out. Sure, they moved, added some guys, and tweaked things. But they dropped the ball and continue to do so.
I do like the EC since I can't stand the 2D. But it's not enough.
Looking back... I would've been perfectly happy with the old 3D and left it all alone. I had such high hopes. What did we accomplish?
I do like the EC since I can't stand the 2D. But it's not enough.
Looking back... I would've been perfectly happy with the old 3D and left it all alone. I had such high hopes. What did we accomplish?
For starters, the 3D models were horribly ugly, not really better than the 2D models. 3D was also missing quite a lot of the basic interface architecture, like hotbars, the robust macro system, the customizable map, the targeting system, a usable chat window, etc. And its inventory gumps had the same inter-client compatibility issues as KR. EC comes out ahead on all of these things, as well as being far more stable (I've crashed a grand total of once since installing it) - and I don't need to log into 2D anymore, for anything. It may not be as graphically lovely as KR, but I can deal in return for a UI that doesn't remind me how awful UIs were in 1997.
So sure, EC's got a future, if EA/Mythic will invest in it. It's got problems, just like KR, and just like 2D for that matter, but nothing that can't be overcome with some effort. EA's track record with the Ultima franchise isn't a good one, however; just looking at UO, UO2, and UXO, they seem more apt to look backwards than forwards, even when it hastens their eventual demise. It is a pity that Mythic is saddled with weakened resources and a vapid, technophobe playerbase. Those things determine the future of the game under any client, more than do the client's merits, and that future has been hazy for many, many years.
T
Thangorodrim
Guest
I play the EC exclusively and have for a couple of months. I have no idea what you are talking about.
I am not saying the EC does not seem to have issues with certain hardware configurations, but I have noticed a tendency for people to generalize their local problems to everyone else or to a code level issue.
On both nvidia and ati hardware I have very few, if any, problems.
T
Thangorodrim
Guest
Where are you getting this data?
...
A lot of my own thoughts are echoed above. I WANT the EC to have a good future. I wanted KR to have a BETTER future than it did, but they reneged on that one much to my annoyance (and prediction that they would "3d" the KR client by releasing it unfinished and changing the plan for the expansion content).
Given Ultima's track record (as far back as 7 Part 2 and maybe further), I'm VERY hesitant to say that the EC DOES have a good future ahead of it. I mean we're talking a solid 15 year track record of getting part, half, or most of the way through a project and abandoning it either as half-completed (Virtues, Ultima 7 Part 2 and U8 content, 3d, KR, the current expansion?) or cancelling outright (too many to count probably).
Beyond that, as stated above you have the Ludditic aspect of the player base that wants better graphics but DON'T CHANGE THEM!!!!1!!1!!1! Or when you show that the list of enhancements they want ends up being the EC, they go "but I hate it!".
I don't know where the EC is headed, and I'm enough on the skeptical side of maybe to be able to choose that as the answer.
It's possible, but after closing KR and gimping the graphical level of the game, I'm not certain that the devs have the courage to do it though.
A lot of my own thoughts are echoed above. I WANT the EC to have a good future. I wanted KR to have a BETTER future than it did, but they reneged on that one much to my annoyance (and prediction that they would "3d" the KR client by releasing it unfinished and changing the plan for the expansion content).
Given Ultima's track record (as far back as 7 Part 2 and maybe further), I'm VERY hesitant to say that the EC DOES have a good future ahead of it. I mean we're talking a solid 15 year track record of getting part, half, or most of the way through a project and abandoning it either as half-completed (Virtues, Ultima 7 Part 2 and U8 content, 3d, KR, the current expansion?) or cancelling outright (too many to count probably).
Beyond that, as stated above you have the Ludditic aspect of the player base that wants better graphics but DON'T CHANGE THEM!!!!1!!1!!1! Or when you show that the list of enhancements they want ends up being the EC, they go "but I hate it!".
I don't know where the EC is headed, and I'm enough on the skeptical side of maybe to be able to choose that as the answer.
It's possible, but after closing KR and gimping the graphical level of the game, I'm not certain that the devs have the courage to do it though.
Y
Yacct
Guest
I hope so, because it's the only way UO has a future beyond slowly stagnating. The eye candy's better, it's actually useable on today's computers (try using 2D on a 46" HD LCD from a couple metres away), it encompasses much of the UOA functionality I used (still needs work there) and importantly for me I can (like 2D) distinguish elements in game and effortlessly interact with them, something earlier clients never reproduced imo.
It's certainly not a perfect client and the bug list is expansive but with further enhancement (you know, that service we pay for) it'd be a viable alternative for those users not running Win98 on a pentium 200 and 14" CRT.
Unfortunately getting critical mass will be hard given EA's track record of screwing us with half-arsed clients. The cynic in me realises it's a matter of time before they abandon this latest experiment.
"Coming soon, Ultima Online: Rebooted!"
It's certainly not a perfect client and the bug list is expansive but with further enhancement (you know, that service we pay for) it'd be a viable alternative for those users not running Win98 on a pentium 200 and 14" CRT.
Unfortunately getting critical mass will be hard given EA's track record of screwing us with half-arsed clients. The cynic in me realises it's a matter of time before they abandon this latest experiment.
"Coming soon, Ultima Online: Rebooted!"
Also i must say, i have no problem to pay a amount like a new expansion for a good client enhancment, the client doesnt have to be free, but it has to be usefull und well supported and thats what i not see now. The Devs have to understand that when they ignore the EC they loose in the future, the facts are correct, what do you want with max 800*600 resolution on a 24'' or bigger which is not rare today.
The graphic is not my top priority at the moment, the stability and the bugs are the problem and with closing the beta i see a stop here, maybe a Dev can correct me.
The graphic is not my top priority at the moment, the stability and the bugs are the problem and with closing the beta i see a stop here, maybe a Dev can correct me.
If you log in to the classic client and open the chat window, the character names of all the SA users will be in the default chat room.
Catskills seems to have fewer EC users than other shards, as I typically see a full page of users on Atlantic or Europa and at least 10 users on shards like Origin (checked when I was checking vet rewards this weekend).
F
Fink
Guest
I tried that.. I too showed up in the list. How do you tell the EC users from the people using 2D's chat?
*edit*
Does anyone else find it discouraging that there are only 32 votes in the poll?
*looks discouraged*
O
Old Man of UO
Guest
I don't vote in the public polls... what purpose does it serve for this vote anyway? The only way I've seen that used in the past is to attack another person's vote, which is wrong in my opinion.
Kind of yes and mostly no.
R
Radix
Guest
I vote yes.
Most i think is said already, so i resume Yes EC has a future (although is a matter of faith more than convincement), it needs a future, becouse we need a future. Only need a little effort from our devs, or kill and replace them!!
discouraging is the few people tring this, only 6 people in a server?? Castskills is a lost land for new clients ¬¬
How much people is a full page? for curiosity
Most i think is said already, so i resume Yes EC has a future (although is a matter of faith more than convincement), it needs a future, becouse we need a future. Only need a little effort from our devs, or kill and replace them!!
discouraging is the few people tring this, only 6 people in a server?? Castskills is a lost land for new clients ¬¬
How much people is a full page? for curiosity
I see another week without any interaction.
I'd not worry about a poll. Only a tiny fraction of the playerbase posts, and most of those are among the die-hard 2D playerbase anyway. It really doesn't help that the KR forum was still up until quite recently, and the EC forum is stuffed way down at the bottom, either.
F
Fink
Guest
On the off-chance they're reading this, the developers might see some healthy discussion and consider continuing work on the EC. Since SA came out there's been almost nothing to indicate that this is their plan. KR was dropped because not enough people were behind it.
First thing they would look at here is the vote to get an idea of numbers involved, as an indication of broader interest, and a quick overview of opinion. I'm sure they could check logins for raw numbers of EC but they wouldn't get opinion that way.
Not enough people read Stratics and even fewer participate. One thing the EC could use is a large forum button on the patcher screen to bring them here, and another button on the login screen. I'm sure the majority of users don't know about this group or the existence of mods etc. I don't want to see another promising client get dropped.
Precisely my gripe, Fink, and the more I think about it, the more annoyed it makes me -- at this point, this forum is buried beneath the factions forum, deco forum, noobie forum, dead player forum, rant forum, SA forum, RP forum, off-topic forum, and the tech forum. This forum has more posts than several of those already, and it hasn't even been active for four months! The only thing that really deserves to be that high on the list is the noobie forum, and for the exact same reason: they, like the client, determine the longevity of the game.
It isn't just a lack of dev support for the client that's a problem.
It isn't just a lack of dev support for the client that's a problem.
M
maroite
Guest
I voted yes.
I also am a firm believer that the problem lies in the people clinging to the 2D client. UO isn't a money maker, and taking time to double test EVERYTHING that is put out is time consuming.
It doesn't help though that there are Ultima players still using Windows ME. No offense, but that was possibly the absolute worst OS in the history of Windows. To think that people are still using that today... is just... I donno.
I also am a firm believer that the problem lies in the people clinging to the 2D client. UO isn't a money maker, and taking time to double test EVERYTHING that is put out is time consuming.
It doesn't help though that there are Ultima players still using Windows ME. No offense, but that was possibly the absolute worst OS in the history of Windows.
To think that people are still using that today... is just... I donno.
E
Essence of Siege
Guest
The nice thing about the 2D client is that people can play UO without needing a current machine.
Believe it or not, but not everyone can run out and buy a new machine or video card everytime a new game comes out. The Enhanced client is a greater resource burden on the machine and people running 2D client just fine on P3's/early P4's will have difficulty with the Enh Client.
I'm all for the enchanced client, but until I can do everything in it I can do with UOA, I'm not interested.
Believe it or not, but not everyone can run out and buy a new machine or video card everytime a new game comes out. The Enhanced client is a greater resource burden on the machine and people running 2D client just fine on P3's/early P4's will have difficulty with the Enh Client.
I'm all for the enchanced client, but until I can do everything in it I can do with UOA, I'm not interested.
O
Old Man of UO
Guest
Sorry that I confused you. What I meant was, what purpose does it serve for this poll to show how everyone voted? NOT, what is the purpose of the poll.
O
Orlacc
Guest
I would not have resubbed without the SA client.
what they need to do is reopen the beta forums for people to discuss the issues with the new client only. and get some patches rolling out day by day like they did in beta.
...
Every day that passes the question more and more becomes "Has the Dev Team squandered the chance they had with the new client?"
Without going into detail, my opinion and answer is looking more and more like a "Yes, they have"
Every day that passes the question more and more becomes "Has the Dev Team squandered the chance they had with the new client?"
Without going into detail, my opinion and answer is looking more and more like a "Yes, they have"
O
Old Man of UO
Guest
*BIG SIGH*
I am beginning to think you are right. We haven't seen an EC improvement patch in well over a month. It really does have the potential to blow away the 2D client, but it isn't close yet. Please finalize it!