Why is Faction Gear such a Problem?

[kelmo]

Factions on Siege is a fail... We went there and found it lame.

 

[burdensrise]

Is that all you guys do it is cry about faction items? I am so sick of hearing all this QQ. They items are in and they are not going anywere. They have been here for what 9 months now?

Now I want you guys to think for a minute about mage suits pre faction items on Siege

(Real mages of course)

Now lets take Speedy Claxtons suit for example pre faction items. (He will have to be the one to compare it out piece by piece but this is what I remember seeing)

Sammy helm - 15dci
Quiver - 5dci
Fey legs - 20 dci (6hp inc)
Heart of the Lion - 15dci

Right there is 55DCI, before shield or jewels. Very easy to add a throw away cursed arcane shield or as many pvpers did pre faction items bless a dci/casting jewel and your capped out with hld.

And when a suit like that fell it required a heavy coin to be dropped to purchase another or just use another since these are all common cursed items. Now depending on a few different things (elf or human fey legs mostly) it could run 1m to 2m a death to lose that suit.

Now for faction items (Im going to save the time typing the items out since I have to head to work)

70 dci (just as the cursed items)
Little easier to get

Death would cost 1-2m to purchase suit back.

Now before you start to agrue "no one ran good gear like that, that is not true. here are some pvpers that commonly ran those/similar suits everytime.

Kage
Speedy
Nym
Forsaken

(Yes KOC nomination hour, theres just a quick 4 without even thinking about it)

P.S. and remember as you think "oh thats only 4" its rare to even see 4 pvpers on siege atm and when you do its the same 4 as always.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

Is that all you guys do it is cry about faction items? I am so sick of hearing all this QQ. They items are in and they are not going anywere. They have been here for what 9 months now?

Now I want you guys to think for a minute about mage suits pre faction items on Siege

(Real mages of course)

Now lets take Speedy Claxtons suit for example pre faction items. (He will have to be the one to compare it out piece by piece but this is what I remember seeing)

Sammy helm - 15dci
Quiver - 5dci
Fey legs - 20 dci (6hp inc)
Heart of the Lion - 15dci

Right there is 55DCI, before shield or jewels. Very easy to add a throw away cursed arcane shield or as many pvpers did pre faction items bless a dci/casting jewel and your capped out with hld.

And when a suit like that fell it required a heavy coin to be dropped to purchase another or just use another since these are all common cursed items. Now depending on a few different things (elf or human fey legs mostly) it could run 1m to 2m a death to lose that suit.

Now for faction items (Im going to save the time typing the items out since I have to head to work)

70 dci (just as the cursed items)
Little easier to get

Death would cost 1-2m to purchase suit back.

Now before you start to agrue "no one ran good gear like that, that is not true. here are some pvpers that commonly ran those/similar suits everytime.

Kage
Speedy
Nym
Forsaken

(Yes KOC nomination hour, theres just a quick 4 without even thinking about it)

P.S. and remember as you think "oh thats only 4" its rare to even see 4 pvpers on siege atm and when you do its the same 4 as always.

Well, if it is that easy then it shouldn't be a problem for factioneers to drop factions and equip like that again. If they want to fight that is...

 

[Kael]

No one is crying...Elmer asked and people responded with an answer to his question

From my viewpoint the only ones crying are the ones in favor of faction arties shedding tears about why no one wants to play with them

 

[Mr. Sly]

i gotta see what other assassin spikes i have before i drop my faciton the only real reason im in evil faction is so i can use my dear assassin spike lol its my favorite..why i hued it evil is beyond me rofl anywho i think i have a decent non hued wep i could use for guild wars if i do ill drop faction and try it out

 

[Scopulus Falco]

Is that all you guys do it is cry about faction items? I am so sick of hearing all this QQ. They items are in and they are not going anywere. They have been here for what 9 months now?

Now I want you guys to think for a minute about mage suits pre faction items on Siege

(Real mages of course)

Now lets take Speedy Claxtons suit for example pre faction items. (He will have to be the one to compare it out piece by piece but this is what I remember seeing)

Sammy helm - 15dci
Quiver - 5dci
Fey legs - 20 dci (6hp inc)
Heart of the Lion - 15dci

Right there is 55DCI, before shield or jewels. Very easy to add a throw away cursed arcane shield or as many pvpers did pre faction items bless a dci/casting jewel and your capped out with hld.

And when a suit like that fell it required a heavy coin to be dropped to purchase another or just use another since these are all common cursed items. Now depending on a few different things (elf or human fey legs mostly) it could run 1m to 2m a death to lose that suit.

Now for faction items (Im going to save the time typing the items out since I have to head to work)

70 dci (just as the cursed items)
Little easier to get

Death would cost 1-2m to purchase suit back.

Now before you start to agrue "no one ran good gear like that, that is not true. here are some pvpers that commonly ran those/similar suits everytime.

Kage
Speedy
Nym
Forsaken

(Yes KOC nomination hour, theres just a quick 4 without even thinking about it)

P.S. and remember as you think "oh thats only 4" its rare to even see 4 pvpers on siege atm and when you do its the same 4 as always.

yes brother we know who ran it.BUT it all could be used by anyone and it didnt take 3 of use to kill one person,on more than one person every time we got raided ,im sorry to say this, but if you realy like SP,and im sure you do, but factions is comming to an end.

 

[Scuzzlebutt]

Have you?.........No one has other than the WAR.Shalimar hasnt been on and ALL you want to DO IS ATT Kelmo?

I never claimed THAT I have. Kelmo believes that WHAT he has done in the past has HAD some KIND of lasting IMPACT. He has more power TO do GOOD than anyone OF us, but instead he CHOOSES to let his pissy LITTLE attitude towards certain guilds/PLAYERS dictate HOW he mods the BOARDS. There have been many players THAT have had tons more impact WITH nowhere NEAR the tools he has AT his disposal. He needs TO stroke HIS epeen as much AS any of the HARDCORE pvp'rs that POST on this FORUM. Hope you guys ENJOY your gm GEAR war WHILE it lasts. To me, ITS like RIDING a mo-ped around AT Sturgis. I play my GAME to have fun at THE highest LEVEL of competition, WHEN it STOPS being fun I will stop playing.

P.S. Random CAPITALIZATION of words is TOTALLY awesome.

 

[Vortex]

I think what was said, was that you do nothing to better this shard.

We have been having pvp fights involving around 30 people at a time. We have more people interested in pvp then there has been in months.

What has factions done? Since the changes, there was a slight surge in people trying it out. When they realized all the faction arties did was give people a way to grief, they all left. PVP has been dead, you said it yourself.

We start something new, and it seems to be working. You are finding less and less fights doing it your way.

Figure it out, this isn't rocket science.

 

[Draxous]

I think what was said, was that you do nothing to better this shard.

We have been having pvp fights involving around 30 people at a time. We have more people interested in pvp then there has been in months.

What has factions done? Since the changes, there was a slight surge in people trying it out. When they realized all the faction arties did was give people a way to grief, they all left. PVP has been dead, you said it yourself.

We start something new, and it seems to be working. You are finding less and less fights doing it your way.

Figure it out, this isn't rocket science.

The same can be said about stealth ninja tamers and greater dragons... something you bitched about yourself. What does that mean? You made your own rules... forged your own mini-Trammel on Siege. now how does that actually fix the problem? Oh... wait, it doesn't.

PvP has been dead since before these faction changes ever went in. When KOC was made, PvP died. The last shred of PvP left was when OTF fought EVO for control of Siege. There hasn't been real PvP on Siege for almost 2 years now. So besides this point... what do you accomplish by doing this?

Fun for a short while? You really think this bull**** RP endeavor you're doing is going to last years to come? lol.

The problem is going to be there whether you ignore it or not. Great, you're having fun in the mean time (I actually applaud you) but please don't pass this RP War crap off as the saving grace to this shard. You will not kill factions. You will not remove these items from this server. You will not change anything for the better. All you will do is put off the inevitable... and when the next expansion comes out and you realize that even more content is added that ISN'T meshing with this shard and the rich get even richer... what then?

I have suggested a change which is the easiest and quickest to do. Just like the arms lore armor fix and the PBD situation... we do not have a dev team willing to set aside oodles of time to devote just to us. Yet, you all pour your energy not into a real fix, but a phony balogne wool drape to cover your own eyes with.

So I have no idea why we sit here and argue rather than going out and getting everyone you know to push for a real fix... that will level the playing field, that will make items mean less and make combat less item based (because we'll all have the same items.)

Basically, everything you're trying to do, but in a way that would actually benefit this shard.

And in the mean time... if you want to enjoy duking it out in crappy gear until the Devs give you real items to play with... by all means go for it. Just stop pretending like that bull**** of a war you've got going on is going to really do anything other than buy you some time.

Thanks,

bye

 

[Scopulus Falco]

I never claimed THAT I have. Kelmo believes that WHAT he has done in the past has HAD some KIND of lasting IMPACT. He has more power TO do GOOD than anyone OF us, but instead he CHOOSES to let his pissy LITTLE attitude towards certain guilds/PLAYERS dictate HOW he mods the BOARDS. There have been many players THAT have had tons more impact WITH nowhere NEAR the tools he has AT his disposal. He needs TO stroke HIS epeen as much AS any of the HARDCORE pvp'rs that POST on this FORUM. Hope you guys ENJOY your gm GEAR war WHILE it lasts. To me, ITS like RIDING a mo-ped around AT Sturgis. I play my GAME to have fun at THE highest LEVEL of competition, WHEN it STOPS being fun I will stop playing.

P.S. Random CAPITALIZATION of words is TOTALLY awesome.

Its not random its to make a POINT.and as it is looking as of (NOW) lol We are going to last and FACTIONS IS ROTING IN THERE SUN,opps didnt hear thats the light GO IN YOU WILL! HAVE FUN BRO.

 

[Calibretto]

So why haven't you and everyone else in this thread that feels this way... started pushing so damn hard to get monster loot boosted on this shard so items don't matter so much for the non-factioner!?!?!

I skim past kelmo's hypocritical rant about blah blah because he does nothing, nothing, nothing to better the situation for this shard but continues to exacerbate the problem.

You all are the problem. Not these items.

You will bicker and pancake amongst yourselves until there is no one left to bicker amongst with.

So pat yourself on the back, accept the fact that these faction items aren't going anywhere and while your at it, accept the fact that 420 dominates you so damn hard, we sent you back in time 6 years pvp-wise.

GG

Couldn't that all be solved buy letting HCI and DCI maybe even SDI to be on the armor made from runics?

 

[Calibretto]

The same can be said about stealth ninja tamers and greater dragons... something you bitched about yourself. What does that mean? You made your own rules... forged your own mini-Trammel on Siege. now how does that actually fix the problem? Oh... wait, it doesn't.

PvP has been dead since before these faction changes ever went in. When KOC was made, PvP died. The last shred of PvP left was when OTF fought EVO for control of Siege. There hasn't been real PvP on Siege for almost 2 years now. So besides this point... what do you accomplish by doing this?

Fun for a short while? You really think this bull**** RP endeavor you're doing is going to last years to come? lol.

The problem is going to be there whether you ignore it or not. Great, you're having fun in the mean time (I actually applaud you) but please don't pass this RP War crap off as the saving grace to this shard. You will not kill factions. You will not remove these items from this server. You will not change anything for the better. All you will do is put off the inevitable... and when the next expansion comes out and you realize that even more content is added that ISN'T meshing with this shard and the rich get even richer... what then?

I have suggested a change which is the easiest and quickest to do. Just like the arms lore armor fix and the PBD situation... we do not have a dev team willing to set aside oodles of time to devote just to us. Yet, you all pour your energy not into a real fix, but a phony balogne wool drape to cover your own eyes with.

So I have no idea why we sit here and argue rather than going out and getting everyone you know to push for a real fix... that will level the playing field, that will make items mean less and make combat less item based (because we'll all have the same items.)

Basically, everything you're trying to do, but in a way that would actually benefit this shard.

And in the mean time... if you want to enjoy duking it out in crappy gear until the Devs give you real items to play with... by all means go for it. Just stop pretending like that bull**** of a war you've got going on is going to really do anything other than buy you some time.

Thanks,

bye

I think your being a little hard on these guys. I don't think thier trying to bring down factions. Or ruin anyones fun. I think they want to have a few wars and rp some. Nothing wrong with that. RP is one of the things that helped build this game.

I do agree that monster loot needs a boost as does runic armor.


As far as the faction items. I thnk they are a great addition to the game. Unlike most of GIL I fight in factions alot. (well until worked picked up) And I used to struggle trying to get HOL and feys to keep up with KOC. Faction items made it alot easier to keep up. I for one love the new items. It's ALL the damn drama associated with them that I don't like.
This would be solved by simply taking the tags off them. So anyone in factions can wear them.

And I know kage will call me some type of name or something. But when you go out of your way to make sure people get their gear back and then it's your turn and they **** you. Well........ Makes to much drama for me.

 

[Vortex]

The problem is going to be there whether you ignore it or not. Great, you're having fun in the mean time (I actually applaud you) but please don't pass this RP War crap off as the saving grace to this shard. You will not kill factions. You will not remove these items from this server. You will not change anything for the better. All you will do is put off the inevitable... and when the next expansion comes out and you realize that even more content is added that ISN'T meshing with this shard and the rich get even richer... what then?

I have suggested a change which is the easiest and quickest to do. Just like the arms lore armor fix and the PBD situation... we do not have a dev team willing to set aside oodles of time to devote just to us. Yet, you all pour your energy not into a real fix, but a phony balogne wool drape to cover your own eyes with.

So I have no idea why we sit here and argue rather than going out and getting everyone you know to push for a real fix...

See, here is where you prove that you pay no attention to what is going on. I supported your idea, agreed with you that changes are in order. I have encouraged everyone to push for fixes. You are the one who keeps coming here to argue.

You spend more time pissing on other peoples ideas then working on yours. We aren't pretending the war is a fix. It is something to do, to have fun while we wait for them to fix it or trash it. We are making the most of what we have and what we can do.

If you spent half the energy you are spending pissing on our threads doing something productive for the shard, maybe we could get something done.

 

[Sunchicken]

FACTIONS IS ROTING IN THERE SUN

i know for one my mage will be in factions untill uo is shut off. The competition level is better in factions.
You dont graduate college to go back to highschool

Yall just think amongst yourselfs for a bit before answering this question.

Would you even let me Forsaken, Critical Gaming, Kage participate in your wars if we wore the suits described by DT?
Hell no you know as well as we do the first thing that came out of your mouth would be your suits to good.... We cant afford to run a cursed orny, a cursed AoF, a totem of the void, a quiver, a crimson, a HOM, we cant afford to buy barbed kits to make the best possible runic armour to fill in our suits..... We need you to wear gm armour and no casting jewels so we can hope to kill you in our scrubbish dexxer war....

You dont need to complain about faction items you need to start investing time to learn how to play stronger group templates "normally more difficult"

 

[IanJames]

I've been watching this thread unfold for awhile and thinking about how I wanted to respond.

I'm not sure I understand why the pro-faction artie side is so against the rp war that is going on? What difference does it make to you? Is it affecting your game play? Some of the people participating are using this as way to learn PVP. Sure some of us have no idea what we're doing, but in getting out there and trying we are learning alot.

Who knows, maybe some of these people will "graduate high school" and move on to faction fighting at a higher level at some point. Maybe they won't, but it sure seems like more people are interested in doing this, then trying to learn PVP under the faction system as it is now.

I have nothing against people who are in factions, who want to fight in faction gear or whatever, but I don't see the point in bashing something that you're not even interested in. I don't have a faction character, so I can't really say anything about the arties vs. regular cursed arties, etc. All I know, is I would like to learn a little more about PVP, and the RP War is a good place for me to do it.

So why don't I go to trammel and do it? Because I have a group of people here that I like and enjoy running around with in game.

Can't we all just get along?

 

[Vortex]

i know for one my mage will be in factions untill uo is shut off. The competition level is better in factions.
You dont graduate college to go back to highschool

Thats about the only arguement I have heard that makes any sense.

I can only speak for myself in my answer to this. I am not at that level. Maybe by competing in the wars, I will get to that level. I'm certainly not going to improve by dying in 3 seconds to a mage who is artied out.

We are not trying to get rid of factions, we are providing an alternate for the people who are not at that level or do not want to spend hours farming silver.

 

[Sprago]

With these wars turning out so good all i gotta say if you dont like faction items and enjoy pvp and dont wanna go red, these wars are a great solution to your problem,. Now then that still creates the unbalance which for this they should bring back cursed arties which would make this a little more even.

 

[Sunchicken]

I relize i might have came off anti the guild war. I am by all means glad yall are having fun doing what ever it is yall are doing.

It just gets frustrating hearing the same crap over and over. The suit has some factor in pvp there is no way around it anymore, but if one thinks that its only the suit that kills them then they are not to bright.


Id rather take 5 skilled mages in a fight with 15 low to average dexxers. In modded suits or not... Knowlege is what it takes to sucessfully pvp. What to do and when to do it. Some people lack that and all the items in the world cant make up for it......

 

[Førsaken]

I relize i might have came off anti the guild war. I am by all means glad yall are having fun doing what ever it is yall are doing.

It just gets frustrating hearing the same crap over and over. The suit has some factor in pvp there is no way around it anymore, but if one thinks that its only the suit that kills them then they are not to bright.


Id rather take 5 skilled mages in a fight with 15 low to average dexxers. In modded suits or not... Knowlege is what it takes to sucessfully pvp. What to do and when to do it. Some people lack that and all the items in the world cant make up for it......

QFT

 

[Draxous]

I relize i might have came off anti the guild war. I am by all means glad yall are having fun doing what ever it is yall are doing.

It just gets frustrating hearing the same crap over and over. The suit has some factor in pvp there is no way around it anymore, but if one thinks that its only the suit that kills them then they are not to bright.


Id rather take 5 skilled mages in a fight with 15 low to average dexxers. In modded suits or not... Knowlege is what it takes to sucessfully pvp. What to do and when to do it. Some people lack that and all the items in the world cant make up for it......

QFT

DQFT

 

[archite666]

The big difference between using the cursed arties versus the faction arties is the DCI. The reason people "can't compete" versus the faction gear is that 70 DCI virtually eliminates dexxers. Since a lot of people play dexxers, that is a problem for a lot of people. Hence, the guild war.

If you look at the people active in that fighting each night, it is mostly dexxers. They have a chance to hit something for a change.

Could you sound any more biased? Its posts like these which always seem to draw me into these debates.

I won't argue for or against faction suits, but I will say that just because you don't hit mages 100% of the time doest mean there is anything wrong.

I have stated over and over again that prefaction arties the risk vs reward for mages was garbage. A dexxer can run a uber blessed weapon, two 15 HCI jewels and gm armor and be amazing. Where as a mage had to run these 2 mill suits just to not get owned.

You said it yourself, alot of people play dexxers, plenty of top level pvpers play them, you see them complaining here?

Does Bo have any problems killing people? How about the carbon copies or death tax or gengis khan? No they don't. Because regardless of 70 DCI they are good pvpers.

As a parry, 70 dci mage, let me tell you dexxers are not overpowered. I have dueled many dexxers on this shard recently and none of them are as gimped as you claimed them to be.

The only difference is I can actually caste a bit instead of "caste, interupt run" all day.

 

[Vortex]

Id rather take 5 skilled mages in a fight with 15 low to average dexxers. In modded suits or not... Knowlege is what it takes to sucessfully pvp. What to do and when to do it. Some people lack that and all the items in the world cant make up for it......

No arguement here. But let me ask you this. How hard is it to gain that knowledge when you die in 3 seconds to an artified mage?

If you want to learn boxing, do you learn anything by getting knocked out in the first punch? Or is it better to start with people slightly above your level and spar?

 

[Tiberius]

I relize i might have came off anti the guild war. I am by all means glad yall are having fun doing what ever it is yall are doing.

It just gets frustrating hearing the same crap over and over. The suit has some factor in pvp there is no way around it anymore, but if one thinks that its only the suit that kills them then they are not to bright.


Id rather take 5 skilled mages in a fight with 15 low to average dexxers. In modded suits or not... Knowlege is what it takes to sucessfully pvp. What to do and when to do it. Some people lack that and all the items in the world cant make up for it......

Good post. Seriously. Well thought out, insightful, and it shows some understanding of what people are trying to accomplish here.

 

[Sunchicken]

No arguement here. But let me ask you this. How hard is it to gain that knowledge when you die in 3 seconds to an artified mage?

If you want to learn boxing, do you learn anything by getting knocked out in the first punch? Or is it better to start with people slightly above your level and spar?

Your right dude i agree 100%. This is an excellent oprotunity for someone wanting to lear how to sucessfully pvp. Im not going to hate on anyone who is using this for the right reasons.

Now i believe for it to be fair to the everyone people who begin to become dominating in the war should be removed because they have advanced to the next level and are not doing anything productive for those learning.

I hope im being clear about the point im trying to make because i fear im not.


If you dont need to learn to pvp and you are good enough to talk crap then back it up dont hide behind excuses like faction arties.....

 

[Sir Morder]

i know for one my mage will be in factions untill uo is shut off. The competition level is better in factions.
You dont graduate college to go back to highschool

Yall just think amongst yourselfs for a bit before answering this question.

Would you even let me Forsaken, Critical Gaming, Kage participate in your wars if we wore the suits described by DT?
Hell no you know as well as we do the first thing that came out of your mouth would be your suits to good.... We cant afford to run a cursed orny, a cursed AoF, a totem of the void, a quiver, a crimson, a HOM, we cant afford to buy barbed kits to make the best possible runic armour to fill in our suits..... We need you to wear gm armour and no casting jewels so we can hope to kill you in our scrubbish dexxer war....

You dont need to complain about faction items you need to start investing time to learn how to play stronger group templates "normally more difficult"

All i got outta this was the impression that YOU cannot compete WITHOUT faction gear.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

Could you sound any more biased? Its posts like these which always seem to draw me into these debates.

I won't argue for or against faction suits, but I will say that just because you don't hit mages 100% of the time doest mean there is anything wrong.

I have stated over and over again that prefaction arties the risk vs reward for mages was garbage. A dexxer can run a uber blessed weapon, two 15 HCI jewels and gm armor and be amazing. Where as a mage had to run these 2 mill suits just to not get owned.

You said it yourself, alot of people play dexxers, plenty of top level pvpers play them, you see them complaining here?

Does Bo have any problems killing people? How about the carbon copies or death tax or gengis khan? No they don't. Because regardless of 70 DCI they are good pvpers.

As a parry, 70 dci mage, let me tell you dexxers are not overpowered. I have dueled many dexxers on this shard recently and none of them are as gimped as you claimed them to be.

The only difference is I can actually caste a bit instead of "caste, interupt run" all day.

I guess one difference between you and me is that when playing a mage, I never felt that I was supposed to be equal to a dexxer one v one. I felt that in a one on one the dexxer should have the advantage whereas in a group fight, my ability to damage or heal from a distance gave me the advantage.

The faction items were a boost to mages because they allowed them to compete better one on one versus dexxers. Mages retained their superiority in group fights and the balance shifted. This was good for mages but bad for dexxers.

That is why this guild war is working. People are able to dust of their dexxers and use them and have fun again. Mages can still participate and they are still useful, but they don't out-compete dexxers in both phases, only in one.

 

[Draxous]

Also... if you're a mage, one of the best ways to learn how to play that character is to duel. I'm pretty sure any one of us in 420 would be willing to duel you and work with anyone wanting to.

Of course if you're really new at it... I suggest starting in GM armor as you will only be able to go offensive for bursts at a time and then you will have to go defensive... it will help your timing and force you to not only choose your spells wisely, but learn how to time your spells too.

Once you've gotten that down where you are not killing or dying amongst those you spar with for long stretches... move on to better gear where the added mana-pool will speed up the fight.

 

[Sir Morder]

No one is crying...Elmer asked and people responded with an answer to his question

From my viewpoint the only ones crying are the ones in favor of faction arties shedding tears about why no one wants to play with them

THIS is the QFT!

 

[Draxous]

I guess one difference between you and me is that when playing a mage, I never felt that I was supposed to be equal to a dexxer one v one. I felt that in a one on one the dexxer should have the advantage whereas in a group fight, my ability to damage or heal from a distance gave me the advantage.

No.

 

[Tiberius]

I have never really been a fan of stat-loss. I like these guild wars because I get to pvp non-stop and get my macroes down. I used to have them down but ALOT has changed, and almost everynight I wind up adding something in.
I know damn well that the only way to be competitive with 420 is to be hitting my macroes not fumbling for them. Yes, the wars are great for learning and honing pvp but they are also about having fun and just getting out and fighting.

 

[Førsaken]

All i got outta this was the impression that YOU cannot compete WITHOUT faction gear.

And all I get out of you, is that you obviously don't PvP much, past or present.



It's funny, because faction gear didn't always exist, nor did minor arties, or cursed arties. I didn't have a problem competing then either (I'm sure many others in guild didn't as well).

It's about what you know and how you use it; items are just added bonus.

Now let that sink in a bit, and maybe you'll stop the crying.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

Also... if you're a mage, one of the best ways to learn how to play that character is to duel. I'm pretty sure any one of us in 420 would be willing to duel you and work with anyone wanting to.

Of course if you're really new at it... I suggest starting in GM armor as you will only be able to go offensive for bursts at a time and then you will have to go defensive... it will help your timing and force you to not only choose your spells wisely, but learn how to time your spells too.

Once you've gotten that down where you are not killing or dying amongst those you spar with for long stretches... move on to better gear where the added mana-pool will speed up the fight.

IMHO

Dueling is great practice for dueling. Dueling is not great practice for PvP.

 

[Draxous]

Also... if you're a mage, one of the best ways to learn how to play that character is to duel. I'm pretty sure any one of us in 420 would be willing to duel you and work with anyone wanting to.

Of course if you're really new at it... I suggest starting in GM armor as you will only be able to go offensive for bursts at a time and then you will have to go defensive... it will help your timing and force you to not only choose your spells wisely, but learn how to time your spells too.

Once you've gotten that down where you are not killing or dying amongst those you spar with for long stretches... move on to better gear where the added mana-pool will speed up the fight.

IMHO

Dueling is great practice for dueling. Dueling is not great practice for PvP.

That's because you're not very good at PvP... nor are you even considered good at it. I wonder why that is? The answer... will probably shock you.

Dueling is DEFINATELY the starting point a mage takes in learning how to PvP. In 11 years of UO there has NEVER been a mage who was awesome at dueling and sucked at PvP. There are and have been plenty of mages who are ok at PvP, but sucked at dueling. Try and figure out why that is.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

That's because you're not very good at PvP... nor are you even considered good at it. I wonder why that is? The answer... will probably shock you.

Dueling is DEFINATELY the starting point a mage takes in learning how to PvP. In 11 years of UO there has NEVER been a mage who was awesome at dueling and sucked at PvP. There are and have been plenty of mages who are ok at PvP, but sucked at dueling. Try and figure out why that is.

I should have known it was a mistake to try to engage you in an actual conversation. I'll go back to ignoring you now.

 

[Draxous]

That's because you're not very good at PvP... nor are you even considered good at it. I wonder why that is? The answer... will probably shock you.

Dueling is DEFINATELY the starting point a mage takes in learning how to PvP. In 11 years of UO there has NEVER been a mage who was awesome at dueling and sucked at PvP. There are and have been plenty of mages who are ok at PvP, but sucked at dueling. Try and figure out why that is.

I should have known it was a mistake to try to engage you in an actual conversation. I'll go back to ignoring you now.

This isn't a debate... this is exactly why there are a ton of players who consider Forsaken or Sunchicken or Kage to be great at PvP on a mage... yet there isn't a player that comes to mind who thinks you're even good at PvP on a mage.

Was my honesty too much for you to handle?

This isn't a bad thing man... it just is what it is. You can man up and try to better yourself or just stick to your opinion of things and continue wondering why we view you the way we do. Either way... it is what it is and unfortunately for you, it's not what you think it is.

*shrugs*

 

[Vortex]

Also... if you're a mage, one of the best ways to learn how to play that character is to duel. I'm pretty sure any one of us in 420 would be willing to duel you and work with anyone wanting to.

I may not agree with you on many things, but I will say that you have lived up to your words here. Once I get my wrestling up, I will take you up on this again.

 

[MerchantAtHome]

This isn't a debate... this is exactly why there are a ton of players who consider Forsaken or Sunchicken or Kage to be great at PvP on a mage... yet there isn't a player that comes to mind who thinks you're even good at PvP on a mage.

Was my honesty too much for you to handle?

This isn't a bad thing man... it just is what it is. You can man up and try to better yourself or just stick to your opinion of things and continue wondering why we view you the way we do. Either way... it is what it is and unfortunately for you, it's not what you think it is.

*shrugs*

That is fair. I don't mind talking with you if you can refrain from insults. I don't consider your opinion of me an insult so I'll reply.

FYI, I don't consider myself a good mage. In fact, it would be hard for me to be a good mage since out of all my accounts, I don't have one pure mage.

I do have two necro mages. I chose that template because with it, I can generate a bigger dump than anyone can on a pure mage. Since my job in our group on that character is to finish at range, it works rather well.

I can't duel or sustain a fight with either necro mage because neither has meditation on his template. Not having med allows me to add parry for defense on one character and wrestle for economy on the other.

If your opinion of my PvP skills is based on my ability to duel as a mage, well, I don't even play that game.

I think one can be a good PvPer in several ways. One way is to play a particular template really well. Another way is to play a variety of templates and be decent on all of them. That is the route I take.

This whole thread started because I killed your guildmate last night on my tamer. Before that, I killed you on my hybrid dexxer. Before that, I killed Kage on a necro mage.

So, you are right. I'll probably never be considered a good mage. On the other hand, what other people think doesn't fill my house with loot or my bankbox with gold and in that respect, I'm doing just fine.

More importantly, I'm having fun doing it.

 

[Tiberius]

Actually I have seen mages who are superb duelers blow it big time on an open field pvp battle. You get alot more crap thrown at you in field fighting and it is not quite as controlled as a duel. The things I have seen Kage and Forsaken do and survive on the field is what would make me refer to them as really good mages. All dueling is good for imo is to learn where your spell macro-keys are but even then there are so many spell you use ina field that do not even come into play in dueling. Dueling is a good place to start, but the only way to excel in field pvp is to do it, and do it often.

P.s. I am not saying Evermore is a great field mage or not since I rarely have encountered him in the field.

 

[Draxous]

Evermore,

You are confusing an opportunistic killing versus a talent for combat.

It's a-kin to me being an average player and wandering around. I come across a name that strikes fear in me because I know that-that player can attack and kill me and the chances of me winning the fight are slim.

On the reverse side, I'm wandering around and I come across a name that strikes no fear in me. I realize that-that player poses no threat, unless I provide them with an opportunity to take advantage of.

You are an opportunistic killer. You are not a threat on the battlefield. Just like in the situation where you "killed" me... you wouldn't have killed me had the other player and greater dragon not gotten my life to 10hp. Had I not been there to fight (even against greater odds) there is no chance, zilch, zero, nada that you could or would have killed me. That right there says that when you compare just me to just you... I am better than you.

One on one... that's right... I'm talking me versus you, it is you that have something to fear... and that is because I am better at PvP than you, no matter what character you are playing on.

While this isn't exactly what we are talking about... you've blurred the lines between what it is to have talent when it comes to PvP and what it is to take advantage of an ad-hoc situation that arises randomly.

That is why you aren't considered good at PvP... you seem to not understand what it is to be good at PvP. But work it, kid. Fill your bank box with loots. Hug the guardzone. Hug your house... just don't act like you're good at PvP. You've made a niche for yourself and that's about it.

 

[Sunchicken]

Actually I have seen mages who are superb duelers blow it big time on an open field pvp battle. You get alot more crap thrown at you in field fighting and it is not quite as controlled as a duel. The things I have seen Kage and Forsaken do and survive on the field is what would make me refer to them as really good mages. All dueling is good for imo is to learn where your spell macro-keys are but even then there are so many spell you use ina field that do not even come into play in dueling. Dueling is a good place to start, but the only way to excel in field pvp is to do it, and do it often.

P.s. I am not saying Evermore is a great field mage or not since I rarely have encountered him in the field.

This is partially true. On the other hand ill agree with br Very few "average or better" duelist are horride on the field. Ill admit i have brain spasm sometimes i dont do particularly well in certain situations, but the experience i have with the timing of my spells offence and defense are key in my ability to make mistakes and survive.

If uo had a draft combine like the nfl and instead of bench press and 40yd dashes they had duel and field skills my draft picks would come out of the duelers, but thats just me...

If you cant protect yourself how do you expect to save a guildy?

 

[Draxous]

Actually I have seen mages who are superb duelers blow it big time on an open field pvp battle. You get alot more crap thrown at you in field fighting and it is not quite as controlled as a duel. The things I have seen Kage and Forsaken do and survive on the field is what would make me refer to them as really good mages. All dueling is good for imo is to learn where your spell macro-keys are but even then there are so many spell you use ina field that do not even come into play in dueling. Dueling is a good place to start, but the only way to excel in field pvp is to do it, and do it often.

Hogwash.

There has never been a mage who was a superb dueler and blew it big time on an open field.

I can conceed that they may not have been spectacular on the field, but they definately could never have blown it big time.

On the field it takes unselfishness. You've got to be willing to throw your buddy a heal rather than cast that ebolt you know will kill one of them for a kill point. You've got to be able to sacrifice yourself and have the enemy focus attack on you, rather than kill your buddy. You've got to play a support role and put up a field, rather than a flamestrike... tons of stuff that maybe someone who is selfish would rather not.

Sure, a person may be selfish and not res, heal or take care of his buddies on the open field as a mage... that's sad, because the person is chosing not to be good, rather than just not being good enough from a lack of practice.

 

[MerchantAtHome]

Evermore,

You are confusing an opportunistic killing versus a talent for combat.

It's a-kin to me being an average player and wandering around. I come across a name that strikes fear in me because I know that-that player can attack and kill me and the chances of me winning the fight are slim.

On the reverse side, I'm wandering around and I come across a name that strikes no fear in me. I realize that-that player poses no threat, unless I provide them with an opportunity to take advantage of.

You are an opportunistic killer. You are not a threat on the battlefield. Just like in the situation where you "killed" me... you wouldn't have killed me had the other player and greater dragon not gotten my life to 10hp. Had I not been there to fight (even against greater odds) there is no chance, zilch, zero, nada that you could or would have defeated me.

One on one... that's right... I'm talking me versus you, it is you that have something to fear... and that is because I am better at PvP than you, no matter what character you are playing on.

While this isn't exactly what we are talking about... you've blurred the lines between what it is to have talent when it comes to PvP and what it is to take advantage of an ad-hoc situation that arises randomly.

That is why you aren't considered good at PvP... you seem to not understand what it is to be good at PvP. But work it, kid. Fill your bank box with loots. Hug the guardzone. Hug your house... just don't act like you're good at PvP. You've made a niche for yourself and that's about it.

Let me ask you a question in return. What is the goal in PvP? Isn't the goal to kill your opponent and take his stuff (Guild War not withstanding)?

If that is the goal, I'm better at PvP than you are because I killed you and I took your stuff. (Those spells that hit you were mine, not a dragon's) I'm better at PvP than Elmer because I killed him and took his stuff. I'm better at PvP than Kage because I killed him and took his stuff.

Your point about one v one is moot. No one fights one v one anymore. Last night I flagged Fudd. So, Critical starts to heal him. So, I call in a dismount. That is how PvP works.

If you are waiting for your chance to get even with me in a one on one, you are going to be waiting a long time.

 

[Draxous]

This is partially true. On the other hand ill agree with br Very few "average or better" duelist are horride on the field.

I was thinking more or less.. awesome duelers. I can't think of one dueler who was REALLY good at dueling... turned around and sucked on the field. In 11 years... not a single one.

 

[SavageSP]

Calibretto hit the nail on the head IMO with this statement:

"Couldn't that all be solved buy letting HCI and DCI maybe even SDI to be on the armor made from runics?"
I dont like dice roll runics that promote scripting, Id prefer farmed resources (grown/picked up/monster loot) to add props, but thats my dream world not reality. Crafted goods should always be equal to or a slight bit better then what you get off the critters.

Faction Items aren't fair to non-faction PvPers, they allow you to build templets you cant or wouldnt build without them. I thought the Faction Items were cool, but extremely stupid as a way to Promote Factions.

I thought they were cool because they allowed people to field competitive gear without spending 24/7 buying, selling, farming, scripting, for the Uber Non-faction arties.......and then someone told me Siege is 5X the Silver cause were the "Hard Shard!"

I think Factions could have been promoted entirely different, I saw a huge list of things that were submitted for the devs to look at that would have made a huge difference in factions and made fighting over towns fun and popular.
Not one thing in that list included Taking Artifacts that existed and adding more Props, in turn completely devaluing the Arty they Cloned.

I fought to get the Rate dropped to 1X, if that's not going to happen id just as soon see them be wiped off Siege, I have 3 suits for my main characters, Im not farming Silver like I did to get those Suits anymore, It's not fun, It's not interesting, the only thing that was good about it was getting raided now and then.

5X Silver is a problem.

Names on the Armor is a problem.

Making the real Artifact they cloned worth poopy is a problem.

Adding killer items to Factions with the false idea that it will promote Factions instead of fixing the broken stuff and adding content or options to factions that would have made it fun for more people is a problem.

EA/Devs and their lack of imagination and thought of what might happen is a problem.

 

[Critical Gaming]

Yes. Some will always have better gear. Yet when they lose, even if it is rare, how does that benefit the victor? A buy back? No thanks.

Pretty sure I'd like to get 850k+ for killing a top-end PvPer. Sounds like a better reward than GM armor, doesn't it?

 

[Mr. Sly]

God im so glad i play SP id say we have some of the most respectable people in the game everytime i think ive made my mind up about something there is always somebody who says something like "you dont go back to highschool after collage" really good pionts about moveing up and i understand completly,i had not thought of that AT ALL but.. lol mad respect to everyone and all your thoughts for real

 

[Draxous]

Let me ask you a question in return. What is the goal in PvP? Isn't the goal to kill your opponent and take his stuff (Guild War not withstanding)?

The goal in PvP is situational. I would be lying if I told you that the goal wasn't to kill your opponent and take their loots.

If a group of players kills you... and then leaves the corpse, but I come along... loot you dry and scuttle off with your loot, does that mean I'm better than you in PvP? I didn't even fight you... but you died and I got your loots... according to your logic, that means I'm a better PvPer than you... because I'm alive with your loots and your dead... sad.

Sorry, but no.

You can skew and blur the lines that define what we're talking about all you want in your own mind... but like I said, it changes nothing.

It's like you getting attacked by someone and running for your life... you get into your house and haha!!! you lived!!! **congrats on the small victory**

Does that mean you beat the other player? No. You got your ass kicked... but were savvy enough to not get it kicked real bad.

It's also true in reverse... if it takes you and 2 of your buddies to take someone down, but one on one... you'd get your ass kicked. Who do you think is better comparatively? Of course the group of 3 COMBINED is equal or better... but individually, you are not.

 

[MerchantAtHome]

The goal in PvP is situational. I would be lying if I told you that the goal wasn't to kill your opponent and take their loots.

If a group of players kills you... and then leaves the corpse, but I come along... loot you dry and scuttle off with your loot, does that mean I'm better than you in PvP? I didn't even fight you... but you died and I got your loots... according to your logic, that means I'm a better PvPer than you... because I'm alive with your loots and your dead... sad.

Sorry, but no.

You can skew and blur the lines that define what we're talking about all you want in your own mind... but like I said, it changes nothing.

It's like you getting attacked by someone and running for your life... you get into your house and haha!!! you lived!!! **congrats on the small victory**

Does that mean you beat the other player? No. You got your ass kicked... but were savvy enough to not get it kicked real bad.

It's also true in reverse... if it takes you and 2 of your buddies to take someone down, but one on one... you'd get your ass kicked. Who do you think is better comparatively? Of course the group of 3 COMBINED is equal or better... but individually, you are not.

If the goal of PvP is to kill someone and take their loot then no, you wouldn't be better than me in PvP if you stumbled onto my body and looted it. You would have to kill me first.

I'm not sure how you know whether or not you are better than me one v one since the only time I can remember fighting you, you died and I took your stuff. I know that on Evermore I can heal 40 points of damage every .75 seconds plus bandages, plus pots. If you can kill me alone on that character, you are one hell of a mage.

Sadly, we will probably never find out.

 

[Draxous]

The goal in PvP is situational. I would be lying if I told you that the goal wasn't to kill your opponent and take their loots.

If a group of players kills you... and then leaves the corpse, but I come along... loot you dry and scuttle off with your loot, does that mean I'm better than you in PvP? I didn't even fight you... but you died and I got your loots... according to your logic, that means I'm a better PvPer than you... because I'm alive with your loots and your dead... sad.

Sorry, but no.

You can skew and blur the lines that define what we're talking about all you want in your own mind... but like I said, it changes nothing.

It's like you getting attacked by someone and running for your life... you get into your house and haha!!! you lived!!! **congrats on the small victory**

Does that mean you beat the other player? No. You got your ass kicked... but were savvy enough to not get it kicked real bad.

It's also true in reverse... if it takes you and 2 of your buddies to take someone down, but one on one... you'd get your ass kicked. Who do you think is better comparatively? Of course the group of 3 COMBINED is equal or better... but individually, you are not.

If the goal of PvP is to kill someone and take their loot then no, you wouldn't be better than me in PvP if you stumbled onto my body and looted it. You would have to kill me first.

I'm not sure how you know whether or not you are better than me one v one since the only time I can remember fighting you, you died and I took your stuff. I know that on Evermore I can heal 40 points of damage every .75 seconds plus bandages, plus pots. If you can kill me alone on that character, you are one hell of a mage.

Sadly, we will probably never find out.

Are we still having a conversation about PvP and what it means to be good at it... or is this you... fumbling to make a point?

And by your standards, my guildies and I have killed you ton's of times. Not only on Evermore but on your other chars as well.

You, that's right... just you have never ever ever ever killed me. And you never will. You will always need help doing it.

So...

 

[MerchantAtHome]

Are we still having a conversation about PvP and what it means to be good at it... or is this you... fumbling to make a point?

And by your standards, my guildies and I have killed you ton's of times. Not only on Evermore but on your other chars as well.

You, that's right... just you have never ever ever ever killed me. And you never will. You will always need help doing it.

So...

It's easy to say you've done something. That's why I took these.

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg289/limenats/blackrain.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg289/limenats/blackrain2.jpg

Put up or shut up. That's what they say.