Vamp Form Poll

[Wenchkin]

I have come to think that some of the people who are participating in this thread are not giving this FACT and all of the implications behind it the consideration it deserves.

Or perhaps, they have other templates which are no less deserving of power than the sampire, built on actual, trained skills. What is being said here by the sampires is "we want our power, the heck with everyone who doesn't use our template". You're willing to act like you're weak and puny without this spell, that tamers with high end pets are WAY more powerful, because they need nerfed long before you, etc etc. Some of us see beyond your argument. Sorry.

I wonder how you'd argue if you were like me, with dexers who don't use the sampire trick and still go about PvMing in UO. Pulling down the sampire trick may lead the way forward for more traditional real skill templates. But it's ok, you go play your sampire, enjoy the perks. I'm happy with my dexers, as otherwise they'd be shelved or sampired. But I don't try to go solo high end stuff with them. I accept their limitations. It just makes me laugh to hear how sampires are going to be so hard done by if they have to live like the rest of us have, for years. Welcome to the world beyond the sampire...

This situation exists because (a) a true necro-dexer template does not work well within the current skill cap and (b) a true necro-dexer temp doesnt build the right kind of damage, it's Chiv that does, and real necro templates would not be expected to carry chiv.

Try running exactly that kind of template and then explain to me again why a sampire with 0 necro deserves to be the best user of vamp form.

Some people want to see this interesting niche snatched away from all the people who enjoy it. Some people are citing the UNIMPORTANT means by which it must be cast (due to the dexer template not being able to fit 99 points of necro on) and the UNIMPORTANT fact that some other skill, 'spirit speak', is not required to do it. Vamp form is what it is, you know? Claiming that it 'should' have other requirements just because some other necro spells do is asking for a nerf, not a fix.

If you wrote from the viewpoint of someone playing non sampire dexers you'd see why some of us think you're wanting all the toys for yourself and being unfair here. You would rather maintain that niche power template than see a nerf which would allow warriors to be boosted up so we had a real choice in templates. You would prefer if we all thought power=sampire and all did our little cloned sampires for PvM? The average joe dexer can sit out in the cold, because he won't get boosted while the sampire exists, as that would likely boost the sampires even further up the damage tables. Yays!

If someone wants to whine about purism of templates and supposed evil of using items in a way that makes Vamp Form actually viable on at least one template, maybe their perspectives are better implemented in, like, WOW, than in UO. UO has a stronger streak to where interesting, varied templates are made to work well.

Purism of templates? Oh get over it! Heaven forbid training has a value. Would you like it if a tamer didn't even need to use an advanced character or any skill to pull out a greater dragon? I doubt it You say interesting varied templates, I say we need more options for a warrior to do high end damage than the sampire. Necros too for that matter. It's hardly variety when you have 1 option for making a top damaging dexer is it? But as long as the sampire exists in the current form, dexers won't get options like that.

I'm hoping the penny will drop and a sampire fan will understand the argument I'm making here, but I won't hold my breath.

Wenchy

 

[JC the Builder]

My point on this is that it's being selective....and therefore should not be changed.

If your a Mage/Bard and use Jewels to bump Magery to cast EV's then remove them for Bard skill Jewels for Disco do the EV's Poof? Same thing as what your asking for.

Energy Vortex lasts 90 seconds. Vampiric Form (usually) lasts until death. They are two completely different things. You would have to keep putting on the Jewelry to cast more Energy Vortex.

Discordance should probably be changed so there is a success check every 30 or 60 seconds. Doing it one time seems too easy.

If your a Blacksmith and you use a +60 to Craft Exceptional SE armor with a Val Runic do a portion of those pieces of armor become Normal Quality when you de-equip the hammer? Same thing as what your asking for.

Now you are just getting ridiculous. By your logic I could craft something, sell it for 100 million gold, take off my hammer and suddenly the armor is junk. The hammer is used at the time the item is crafted. Just as skill items are only used at the time the skill check is performed.

 

[Stigmatas]

Or perhaps, they have other templates which are no less deserving of power than the sampire, built on actual, trained skills. What is being said here by the sampires is "we want our power, the heck with everyone who doesn't use our template". You're willing to act like you're weak and puny without this spell, that tamers with high end pets are WAY more powerful, because they need nerfed long before you, etc etc. Some of us see beyond your argument. Sorry.

I wonder how you'd argue if you were like me, with dexers who don't use the sampire trick and still go about PvMing in UO. Pulling down the sampire trick may lead the way forward for more traditional real skill templates. But it's ok, you go play your sampire, enjoy the perks. I'm happy with my dexers, as otherwise they'd be shelved or sampired. But I don't try to go solo high end stuff with them. I accept their limitations. It just makes me laugh to hear how sampires are going to be so hard done by if they have to live like the rest of us have, for years. Welcome to the world beyond the sampire...


Try running exactly that kind of template and then explain to me again why a sampire with 0 necro deserves to be the best user of vamp form.


If you wrote from the viewpoint of someone playing non sampire dexers you'd see why some of us think you're wanting all the toys for yourself and being unfair here. You would rather maintain that niche power template than see a nerf which would allow warriors to be boosted up so we had a real choice in templates. You would prefer if we all thought power=sampire and all did our little cloned sampires for PvM? The average joe dexer can sit out in the cold, because he won't get boosted while the sampire exists, as that would likely boost the sampires even further up the damage tables. Yays!


Purism of templates? Oh get over it! Heaven forbid training has a value. Would you like it if a tamer didn't even need to use an advanced character or any skill to pull out a greater dragon? I doubt it You say interesting varied templates, I say we need more options for a warrior to do high end damage than the sampire. Necros too for that matter. It's hardly variety when you have 1 option for making a top damaging dexer is it? But as long as the sampire exists in the current form, dexers won't get options like that.

I'm hoping the penny will drop and a sampire fan will understand the argument I'm making here, but I won't hold my breath.

Wenchy

What exactly is it that you hunt Wenchy? Trolls? Ettins? Last I checked you didn't do a lot of high end PVM. You stayed in that wasteland Fel. You ever try and dex a paragon Balron? Ever go in to a peerless as a dexer? Solo or NOT? When was the last time you used a melee template to do a peerless? If you have, your in the minority.

You seem to talk here like the sampire is holding back other melee templates. You seem to give a lot of credit to the devs in that they will somehow "fix" melee templates so they don't die in 2 hits or 2 seconds to high end PVM. You seem to forget that while tamers got greather dragons, cu sidhe, (both with great HP and great special moves), archers got quivers and the "balanced" property, melee templates got........nerfs.

Nerfs to heal times, evasion, swing speeds, LEECHES......the dev's HATE melee templates. In 11 freakin years, the only love melee really ever got was with AoS. Everywhere you go people use tamers because of the tanking ability. You really think that they will fix the tanking ability either before or after a sampire nerf? They will not. Everyone will do what most have already done. Shelve their melee templates in favor of bards, tamers and mages. Yeehaw. It's already been done in years past by the majority of PVM'ers. Look around you. Also, nothing at all is stopping you from obtaining the millions of gold worth of crap it takes to be a sampire. All I see here are people who either play tamers all the time, or were to lazy/broke to go get the gear to make a sampire.

At any rate, whatever these yahoo's on the boards "think", or the devs do. I will be here. Adapting to yet ANOTHER DAMN NERF. And I will be soloing peerless, getting the items, and there is not a damn thing anyone can do about it. My buisiness. My accounts. My time.

I will adapt, and I'll still be right here whenever the nerf wagon boardy posters come along whining about this and that. And I'll still be getting my pretty shinies. The only thing that pisses me off is that my favorite template since 1997 has been a swordsman. You know, the primary thing anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together thinks of when you think medieval.

There is tamer hate for a reason. I've seen it all. Don't need to explain it to some biased boardy who is quick to jump on every nerf train that comes around.

And do not propose to tell me how to play a dexxer. Chances are I was playing a dexxer way before you were logging in.

 

[manufacturedsoul]

Now you are just getting ridiculous. By your logic I could craft something, sell it for 100 million gold, take off my hammer and suddenly the armor is junk. The hammer is used at the time the item is crafted. Just as skill items are only used at the time the skill check is performed.

I think the whole point of alot of these retort posts is to be ridiculous while compring the removal of this necro trick to other similar tricks that "probably" shouldn't work either. This whole discussion is ridiculous IMO. Leave Vamp form alone there are other "REAL" issues with UO that need resolved long before this....

 

[Revenant2]

Or perhaps, they have other templates which are no less deserving of power than the sampire, built on actual, trained skills. What is being said here by the sampires is "we want our power, the heck with everyone who doesn't use our template". You're willing to act like you're weak and puny without this spell, that tamers with high end pets are WAY more powerful, because they need nerfed long before you, etc etc. Some of us see beyond your argument. Sorry.

I wonder how you'd argue if you were like me, with dexers who don't use the sampire trick and still go about PvMing in UO. Pulling down the sampire trick may lead the way forward for more traditional real skill templates. But it's ok, you go play your sampire, enjoy the perks. I'm happy with my dexers, as otherwise they'd be shelved or sampired. But I don't try to go solo high end stuff with them. I accept their limitations.

Maybe that's the difference. The vamp form bush dexers are basically about leaving limitations behind. Max damage for max leech and therefore max survival and the eventual death of the enemy.

My tamer can solo Barracoon with his better greater dragons and a stack of 200 bandies. It frankly does take too long for my liking to do such a thing but, in the end, Coon would go down. I can also solo it with a dread horse and mare combo and a pile of bandies. It's harder if coon is running around but, say, if its not running like crazy I can do it without bad risk to the pets or me.

Recently we've had a visitor to our barracoon spawns. A vamp form bush dexer was there to help pound on coon, for once. Usually its all necro-mages and tamers. Where's the harm in having one of those guys come? And is it bad if he, too, might be able to solo Coon if we were to let him try?

Who really wants to play *down* to a template? Are we supposed to proceed as though a swordsman is a second-rate piece of poop compared to, say, a necromage or a tamer? The vamp form bush dexers are a template that pushes its head above the water in PVM and it survives alongside the greater dragons (although is not identical in performance characteristics).

It just makes me laugh to hear how sampires are going to be so hard done by if they have to live like the rest of us have, for years. Welcome to the world beyond the sampire...


Try running exactly that kind of template and then explain to me again why a sampire with 0 necro deserves to be the best user of vamp form.


If you wrote from the viewpoint of someone playing non sampire dexers you'd see why some of us think you're wanting all the toys for yourself and being unfair here. You would rather maintain that niche power template than see a nerf which would allow warriors to be boosted up so we had a real choice in templates. You would prefer if we all thought power=sampire and all did our little cloned sampires for PvM? The average joe dexer can sit out in the cold, because he won't get boosted while the sampire exists, as that would likely boost the sampires even further up the damage tables. Yays!


Purism of templates? Oh get over it! Heaven forbid training has a value. Would you like it if a tamer didn't even need to use an advanced character or any skill to pull out a greater dragon? I doubt it You say interesting varied templates, I say we need more options for a warrior to do high end damage than the sampire. Necros too for that matter. It's hardly variety when you have 1 option for making a top damaging dexer is it? But as long as the sampire exists in the current form, dexers won't get options like that.

I'm hoping the penny will drop and a sampire fan will understand the argument I'm making here, but I won't hold my breath.

Wenchy

If they want to empower less-radical, less-niche swords/fence/mace templates to have the tankyness and power of the bush vamp dexer, I can't discourage the idea, but I'd hope that the new template is touchy to set up and operate as the vamp bush one is.

The vamp bush template is not plug and play, it takes thought behind the gear and the jewels and everything. For example, you can see a weapon that you think will be great, and then you might take that thing out and try it and it gets you killed repeatedly, and you have to go back to your old weapon.

Plus, you have to fight with it right. There's times to run away, and there's times where you will, paradoxically, die if you run. Sometimes you may be redlined but still your only hope is to fight back, push harder, keep swinging, swap to your 1-handed wep and pound deep into your refresh and heal pots, do whatever it takes to push more damage and leech that life back. When fighting a high-end monster using this temp, its a YOU or IT kinda deal. You and the monster are locked in a struggle from which you cannot back away because every second that you're not hitting, you are dying. Your life is dependent upon your continuing to fight.

It's the template that lives by its courage and self-control, and stands attached to the enemy despite massive damage and difficulty being pounded down upon it. It's different from everything else you can do, it's like, backwards from normal melee fighting. You don't back off when you need to heal, you have to push harder, and it can be freaky.

Succesful vamp bush dexers are reaping the rewards of getting all that stuff set up right and using the thing correctly. I wouldn't want that power handed to anyone with a few arties and a soul seeker, no. It should be touchy, like what we have now!

 

[Nexus]

Energy Vortex lasts 90 seconds. Vampiric Form (usually) lasts until death. They are two completely different things. You would have to keep putting on the Jewelry to cast more Energy Vortex.

Discordance should probably be changed so there is a success check every 30 or 60 seconds. Doing it one time seems too easy.


Now you are just getting ridiculous. By your logic I could craft something, sell it for 100 million gold, take off my hammer and suddenly the armor is junk. The hammer is used at the time the item is crafted. Just as skill items are only used at the time the skill check is performed.

The part I put in Bold is exactly my point as to why it shouldn't be changed

 

[Wenchkin]

What exactly is it that you hunt Wenchy? Trolls? Ettins? Last I checked you didn't do a lot of high end PVM. You stayed in that wasteland Fel. You ever try and dex a paragon Balron? Ever go in to a peerless as a dexer? Solo or NOT? When was the last time you used a melee template to do a peerless? If you have, your in the minority.

I live in fel, but I don't PvM there exclusively lol. It'd be a wee bit boring if I did Till last year I've been on a 28k dialup con with 200 ping on a good day, 2hr cutoff lol. Now, with that setup, I just didn't fancy peerless or para ballies with any character, nevermind my dexers. Would you? At best it was suicidal - hit a 5 sec lag spike = game over. I'm not sure even a good sampire would survive that one. I've done Doom on 28k, just collected more than my normal share of death robes, but I did ok with both dexers. I just hunt Doom instead of peerless now because I enjoy it more.

You seem to talk here like the sampire is holding back other melee templates. You seem to give a lot of credit to the devs in that they will somehow "fix" melee templates so they don't die in 2 hits or 2 seconds to high end PVM. You seem to forget that while tamers got greather dragons, cu sidhe, (both with great HP and great special moves), archers got quivers and the "balanced" property, melee templates got........nerfs.

I would rather see a scenario where sampires and tamers were pulled down to do less damage, then other classes were tweaked so we have a more level playing field. I think that's risky, sure, but still better than keeping just 2 templates which run over all the rest. That's all. Yes, it may backfire. But I don't think the present situation is sustainable or serves the dexer community as a whole.

Nerfs to heal times, evasion, swing speeds, LEECHES......the dev's HATE melee templates. In 11 freakin years, the only love melee really ever got was with AoS. Everywhere you go people use tamers because of the tanking ability. You really think that they will fix the tanking ability either before or after a sampire nerf? They will not. Everyone will do what most have already done. Shelve their melee templates in favor of bards, tamers and mages. Yeehaw. It's already been done in years past by the majority of PVM'ers. Look around you. Also, nothing at all is stopping you from obtaining the millions of gold worth of crap it takes to be a sampire. All I see here are people who either play tamers all the time, or were to lazy/broke to go get the gear to make a sampire.

I have more gold than I can spend, more than enough valuables to sell should I want more. If I want in UO I go out and get it, I'm not hear because of twink envy lol. I have the basic equipment to build a sampire, the gold to obtain what I lack in uberness without an issue. I just choose not to rely on what to me is a gimpy twink trick or give it any support. No different to not twinking my tamers so they can parade around with greater drags - I don't do that either.

I will adapt, and I'll still be right here whenever the nerf wagon boardy posters come along whining about this and that. And I'll still be getting my pretty shinies. The only thing that pisses me off is that my favorite template since 1997 has been a swordsman. You know, the primary thing anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together thinks of when you think medieval.

My warriors were my favorites too. Just because I didn't jump on the gimp train, doesn't mean I don't care for my fighter characters, or invest time in playing them. I had a ball playing my dexers when they were stronger too, I enjoyed having a real choice in how to slice and dice monsters and reds. Now my tamers tackle what the dexers can't handle and they compliment each other to a degree. It's not perfect, but it does. I won't delete or twink templates because they got nerfed, if I was like that, I wouldn't still have a thief...

There is tamer hate for a reason. I've seen it all. Don't need to explain it to some biased boardy who is quick to jump on every nerf train that comes around.

You think I haven't seen and dealt with (or even killed) my share of muppet tamers? Or that I haven't met the problem tamers too? Shows what you know of me then. I'm not sure how I can be biased when I openly suggest changes to clean up the taming profession as well as balancing others, and repeatedly state that I want a level playing field for all so we can choose templates. Go find me a post where I have suggested that I want my tamers on top of the damage tables if you believe that I'm so biased towards taming.

And do not propose to tell me how to play a dexxer. Chances are I was playing a dexxer way before you were logging in.

I wouldn't dare tell you how to play your dexer, heaven forbid lol. I won't mention when I started out in UO, then you're free to keep up the "I know everything, you're a noob" talk and keep me entertained there too.

Wenchy

 

[Surgeries]

Discordance should probably be changed so there is a success check every 30 or 60 seconds. Doing it one time seems too easy.

/Signed...and I have a Discorder that does use jewelry this way...it is gimpy...it SHOULD be changed. He is training towards 120, but /Signed, indeed.

Now you are just getting ridiculous. By your logic I could craft something, sell it for 100 million gold, take off my hammer and suddenly the armor is junk. The hammer is used at the time the item is crafted. Just as skill items are only used at the time the skill check is performed.

Using their Logic, I should be able to equip a +60 Hammer once, and never use a charge, after I take it out of my hands, and craft Exceptional Plate Mail Tunics until death, actually.

Or equip Mage Jewelry and a Scrappers once, and then cast 120 Mage spells until death, while I wear a Ring of the Elements, and carry a Boom Stick.

That would be the "I can't fit it on my Template, and I want to Toe to Toe the Peerless, Solo!!" logic.

 

[Gildar]

If your a Blacksmith and you use a +60 to Craft Exceptional SE armor with a Val Runic do a portion of those pieces of armor become Normal Quality when you de-equip the hammer? Same thing as what your asking for.

Now you are just getting ridiculous. By your logic I could craft something, sell it for 100 million gold, take off my hammer and suddenly the armor is junk. The hammer is used at the time the item is crafted. Just as skill items are only used at the time the skill check is performed.

Blacksmithy, alchemy, tinkering... all designed to create items that can later be used without a skill requirement.

Necromancy, on the other hand, is designed to provide temporary benefit to somebody with skill in necromancy.


A more proper comparison (using vampire form as a basis) would be if a blacksmith could put on a +60 hammer, take it off, put on a different hammer and get the benefit of both at the same time.
On the flip side, using a +60 hammer to create something is like using jewelry and keeping it on throughout the entire time vampire form is active, only taking it off after it is no longer in use.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I want to Toe to Toe the Peerless, Solo!!" logic.

How many of us have to say that it has nothing to do with soloing Peerless before you actually hear it?

 

[Shelleybean]

And meleer's SHOULD be able to tank in high end PvM without it.

But they can't.

That's my point.

Unless they rework meleers so they can actually do what they're supposed to and stand toe to toe and tank, they need to leave it as is. I'm all for a different method to allow meleers to tank that doesn't involve Necro, but all I keep seeing is to nerf it "just because I think so".

That doesn't cut it. Especially when these same people can and do solo the same things they keep saying Sampires shouldn't be able to with another template.

Agreed. So until then, leave our dexxers alone please!

 

[Erekose]

How many of us have to say that it has nothing to do with soloing Peerless before you actually hear it?

QFT

I'll admit I've soloed Dread a few times with my sampire, but I prefer to do it with a group because it's more fun that way. I didn't turn my main into a sampire to solo peerless; I did it because I enjoy playing the template. When I do Peerless 99% of the time it is with friends. Besides, some of the time if I try to do a solo Peerless I just wind up using up my 3 self rezzes for little gain

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

If I understand you, you're suggesting we ruin a high end necro spell rather than fix the abuses behind it?

I'd have to say that's probably the worst suggestion I've seen to fixing this issue. Vamp form takes what, high 90's skill to cast? So it's effectively the highest-level necro spell in UO. Obviously, players are using + skill items or soulstones to go into this form and then removing said items to gain the power of the spell without investing the skill points. Any solution that destroys the ability rather than preventing abuse of the ability is a poor solution.

Where in it's description does it (or anything else in UO) say that real skill is required? You're all calling it an abuse, imo it isn't. None of the other things in game where you put an item on to get a benefit that you wouldn't normally have are under scrutiny.

What I'm suggesting is that it would be fairly hypocritical to fix one aspect that theres no rule about while ignoring the broken aspect that there is a rule about. It reminds me of the way people tryed to add a control slot to animal form because of a imbalance with taming/pet balls.

I'm not suggesting ruin it, I'm suggesting leave it alone. Fixing an "abuse" while ignoring it's penalties is no soloution.

 

[Kith Kanan]

I can solo Daemon Berserkers (as well as many other very powerful creatures) with my samurai. I don't use vampire form.

Nobody should be able to solo Daemon Berserkers. Some content in UO should be for groups only (though I feel everything should be obtainable solo... just some of it easier to find in groups-only content).

I hope that includes tamers............

 

[Erekose]

I hope that includes tamers............

They won't nerf tamers. Judging from past trends they will just make Balrons and Ancient Wyrms tameable instead.

 

[Llewen]

I can solo Daemon Berserkers (as well as many other very powerful creatures) with my samurai. I don't use vampire form.

Nobody should be able to solo Daemon Berserkers. Some content in UO should be for groups only (though I feel everything should be obtainable solo... just some of it easier to find in groups-only content).

I hope that includes tamers............

Go ahead and try to solo a daemon berserker with a tamer, just you and your pet - any pet. Try it. If you actually manage to kill the berserker, I'll buy you a beer if we ever meet irl. I promise I will...

And meleer's SHOULD be able to tank in high end PvM without it.

But they can't.

That's my point.

Unless they rework meleers so they can actually do what they're supposed to and stand toe to toe and tank, they need to leave it as is. I'm all for a different method to allow meleers to tank that doesn't involve Necro, but all I keep seeing is to nerf it "just because I think so".

That doesn't cut it. Especially when these same people can and do solo the same things they keep saying Sampires shouldn't be able to with another template.

I don't have a strong opinion about the "tanking" issue, but in my opinion, no one on any template should be able to solo the high end bosses, that includes event bosses, Doom, and most especially peerless. If they can, either they should be nerfed, or the bosses themselves fixed so whatever they do can't be done anymore.

 

[Gildar]

Nobody should be able to solo Daemon Berserkers. Some content in UO should be for groups only (though I feel everything should be obtainable solo... just some of it easier to find in groups-only content).

I hope that includes tamers............

A single tamer with one or more pets is still soloing, and still not a group.

 

[Ender]

I don't have a strong opinion about the "tanking" issue, but in my opinion, no one on any template should be able to solo the high end bosses, that includes event bosses, Doom, and most especially peerless. If they can, either they should be nerfed, or the bosses themselves fixed so whatever they do can't be done anymore.

I'll ask this again, what the **** does it matter to you what anyone else does on the Tram side of UO? They're not harming the game like scripters or dupers, they're not gaining any advantage in PvP, they just play a template that they have chosen to play. It's not an exploit, bug, cheat, hack, etc., so again, why do you care so much what other people do?

 

[Doomsday Dragon]

I say yes but only if everything else similar gets a kick in the balls too. But it was between that or beefing them up in another area to make up for it.

 

[Kith Kanan]

A single tamer with one or more pets is still soloing, and still not a group.

Yep and they are worse at solo'ing high end mobs than peopel in vampire form since ?????

 

[Redxpanda]

I think it's a heap of crap and the only people that need a kick in the nutts is the devs. Seriously, with all the other stuff going on why would they go and do something like a nerf. How about they nerf duping for a change. Don't get me wrong, there are some powerful templates and skills right now but people have learned to adapt. They need to either do something as soon as the issue is identified or leave it alone and let the players work it out.

 

[Gildar]

A single tamer with one or more pets is still soloing, and still not a group.

Yep and they are worse at solo'ing high end mobs than peopel in vampire form since ?????

Huh?

Both Sampire and Tamer (and other templates, but to a lesser degree) have things that make them able to solo creatures that should not be solo content. Doesn't matter too much which one is better or worse - both have issues that should be fixed.

 

[Erekose]

Huh?

Both Sampire and Tamer (and other templates, but to a lesser degree) have things that make them able to solo creatures that should not be solo content. Doesn't matter too much which one is better or worse - both have issues that should be fixed.

Why? Exactly who are they hurting?

 

[Gildar]

Why? Exactly who are they hurting?

Ignoring the PvP aspects of the imbalance...

People who don't want to abuse the clearly imbalanced mechanics are getting hurt in just the same way as people who play online flash games with highscore tables get hurt when others abuse game mechanics to raise their score higher than can be done legitimately.
People who want to help fight boss monsters for events are getting hurt because they are not able to experience the challenge of the fight as it was intended.
People who want to experience group play are hurt because it is harder to find strangers willing to temporarily team up against high-end content since there are more who are capable of soloing it.
Roleplayers are hurt because the ability of a single person to take on what is clearly intended to be a very powerful creature makes the world harder for many people to become immersed in, reducing the number of fellow roleplayers to play with.
Roleplayers are also hurt because it increases the gap between those who roleplay as though everything that happens in game is real for their characters and those who roleplay as though only those things they want to say are real for their characters are real for their characters.
People who participate in the in-game economy are hurt because those who utilize Sampires and Tamers can obtain more higher quality items in shorter periods of time than those who do not, further increasing the gap between rich and poor and adding greater difficulty in determining what prices are fair for items.

 

[Erekose]

Vamp form rather sucks for PvP actually. I cut down on my PvP on my Sammy after he went Sampire. LP kills you every time unless you manage (with the chiv you reduced in order to be able to do VE) to flame it off. As for tamers, I don't have one so I can't speak to that.

 

[Azaroth-]

This blows.
Just nuke it already, every one of you whingers will get what you want. I will just craft a new weapon to include life leech to substitute for VE. Then we will hear all this again because "oh oh oh oh oh this dexxer guy with this HML/MSL/HLL weapon!!!! he's too powerful! somebody must stop him!! he can't be stoped!! ORANTES ARE AN EXPLOIT!! 3 Leeches are exploits!!!!"

 

[Erekose]

They should just get rid of all skills and items and just give everyone a club and equal stats.

 

[Mistura]

Vamp form rather sucks for PvP actually. I cut down on my PvP on my Sammy after he went Sampire. LP kills you every time unless you manage (with the chiv you reduced in order to be able to do VE) to flame it off. As for tamers, I don't have one so I can't speak to that.

Exactly, VE is not an option in pvp because as soon as you meet a nox dexxer its time to run away!

People can't live and let live. Its a jelousy thing..

Theres a select few people that can solo peerless. They put in the time and effort of building suits, working tactics and discovering how its done...

YOU TOO CAN DO IT...

Instead of crying for nerfs, go work on your toon, believe me you will get there, just work at it!

P&L
Mistura

 

[Azaroth-]

Will anyone out there object if i could solo peerless without VE, simply by using a HLL, HSL, HML weapon and some potions?

Maybe the weapon I used was crafted with a duped Val hammer? Complain about that?

Maybe we need to look in to EOO and consecrate weapon see if they need the bat?

Something obviously has to be changed if I can still solo peerless, right?

 

[Azaroth-]

I say expansion revert.

Let's remove Samurai Empire.

 

[Nexus]

Ignoring the PvP aspects of the imbalance...

People who don't want to abuse the clearly imbalanced mechanics are getting hurt in just the same way as people who play online flash games with highscore tables get hurt when others abuse game mechanics to raise their score higher than can be done legitimately.

Not so, it's a matter of choice to make a Sampire or not same as to make a Tamer or not.

People who want to help fight boss monsters for events are getting hurt because they are not able to experience the challenge of the fight as it was intended.

Some of us are tired to of the outrageous prices in luna for quality high end items, not to mention the fact you can't trust if they are duped or not. Spending the time to not only develop, but properly suit a Sampire is nothing compared to learning how to play it effectively enough to Solo Top end Critters.

People who want to experience group play are hurt because it is harder to find strangers willing to temporarily team up against high-end content since there are more who are capable of soloing it.

?? I'm never at a shortage of people how want to go do peerless with me all I have to do is either A) Send out a Guild Shout B) Stand in Luna and invite folks

Roleplayers are hurt because the ability of a single person to take on what is clearly intended to be a very powerful creature makes the world harder for many people to become immersed in, reducing the number of fellow roleplayers to play with.

This one is straight up BS. Most RP now a days is not in the form of group hunts, and furthermore for it to be "Immersive" it usually requires to be story line driven and a community effort to start with, meaning you have a group before you can even start the RP aspect of a RP themed hunt.

Roleplayers are also hurt because it increases the gap between those who roleplay as though everything that happens in game is real for their characters and those who roleplay as though only those things they want to say are real for their characters are real for their characters.

Sorry but the vast majority of UO players aren't into the RP aspect, if you are that's fine I'm not bashing it but using it as a crutch to try and lay guilt or justify a nerf is pathetic. How bout all your little RP buddies emote *Swoons in the radiant Glory of [insert Peerless Soloer's name here]* That would be RP.

People who participate in the in-game economy are hurt because those who utilize Sampires and Tamers can obtain more higher quality items in shorter periods of time than those who do not, further increasing the gap between rich and poor and adding greater difficulty in determining what prices are fair for items.

People who participate in the in-game Economy are not hurt by Sampires and Tamers, Dupers and Scripters do hurt it though. Sampires and Tamers are examples of Templates that many honest players use to try and remove the strangle hold dupers and scripters have on their personal level of the game economy by using the benefits of these skill template to avoid the need to put more gold in the cheaters pocket thus giving them a stronger hold on the economy as a whole. Look at it this way, if your splitting loot between 30 people and there is a 1 in 100 chance a Crimmy Drops your odds of getting it have jumped dramatically, on the other hand if you go with 1-2 people your odds are much shorter. Speaking of which if it was only 2 people doing the peerless would you be complaining? Things that 2 folks can do rather easily should be able to be done by one person busting their tail I'd think.

Granted some scripters play Sampires, and Tamers, but nerfing either group to try and change that is a sorry excuse for Game Support [GM's, Devs ect.] not putting in effective measures to Stop the cheaters while leaving the rest of us unscathed, be it effective coding to close up Dupe bugs, or by starting to do IP bans on Scripters so no other account on the same IP can log in.

 

[Gildar]

People who don't want to abuse the clearly imbalanced mechanics are getting hurt in just the same way as people who play online flash games with highscore tables get hurt when others abuse game mechanics to raise their score higher than can be done legitimately.

Not so, it's a matter of choice to make a Sampire or not same as to make a Tamer or not.

Why should one playstyle have such a huge advantage over numerous other very similar playstyles? Why should people need to feel forced into playing a very specific playstyle in order to be even close to good at a game? Why can't people have lots of equal choices at the top, instead of just two? Why should rather specific high-end items be required to even play one of the two playstyles at the top?

Sorry but the vast majority of UO players aren't into the RP aspect

Quantity of people using a playstyle doesn't matter. It's a legitimate playstyle, and they shouldn't be spat on just because there aren't many of them.

Speaking of which if it was only 2 people doing the peerless would you be complaining? Things that 2 folks can do rather easily should be able to be done by one person busting their tail I'd think.

Yes, I do have a problem with two people being able to take on a peerless without it being exceptionally difficult.

 

[Llewen]

I don't have a strong opinion about the "tanking" issue, but in my opinion, no one on any template should be able to solo the high end bosses, that includes event bosses, Doom, and most especially peerless. If they can, either they should be nerfed, or the bosses themselves fixed so whatever they do can't be done anymore.

I'll ask this again, what the **** does it matter to you what anyone else does on the Tram side of UO? They're not harming the game like scripters or dupers, they're not gaining any advantage in PvP, they just play a template that they have chosen to play. It's not an exploit, bug, cheat, hack, etc., so again, why do you care so much what other people do?

Simply put, when the game becomes too easy, it ceases to be fun. When the game becomes limited, in that there are only a few "right" ways to "win", the game ceases to be fun. If there were four guaranteed moves to checkmate in chess, no one would play the game. If there was a guaranteed way to win at solitaire, every time, in under five minutes, no one would play the game.

There needs to be high end content in an mmo which is truly challenging, or the game simply isn't worth playing. In my opinion, there needs to be high end content in an mmo which can only be "beaten" by a well organized, advanced group, if for no other reason than there needs to be something challenging to do as a group, or group play becomes pointless from a game perspective.

If the highest end content in an mmo can be beaten solo, that means, even if it is challenging to play solo, it is no longer enough of a challenge to play as a group. When game play ceases to be challenging, it loses much of it's inherent fun factor, and the bottom line in any game, should always be fun, ergo, one of the bottom lines in any game should be challenge, and for a multiplayer game of any description, one of the bottom lines should be challenge in a multiplayer context.

 

[Ender]

Simply put, when the game becomes too easy, it ceases to be fun. When the game becomes limited, in that there are only a few "right" ways to "win", the game ceases to be fun. If there were four guaranteed moves to checkmate in chess, no one would play the game. If there was a guaranteed way to win at solitaire, every time, in under five minutes, no one would play the game.

There needs to be high end content in an mmo which is truly challenging, or the game simply isn't worth playing. In my opinion, there needs to be high end content in an mmo which can only be "beaten" by a well organized, advanced group, if for no other reason than there needs to be something challenging to do as a group, or group play becomes pointless from a game perspective.

If the highest end content in an mmo can be beaten solo, that means, even if it is challenging to play solo, it is no longer enough of a challenge to play as a group. When game play ceases to be challenging, it loses much of it's inherent fun factor, and the bottom line in any game, should always be fun, ergo, one of the bottom lines in any game should be challenge, and for a multiplayer game of any description, one of the bottom lines should be challenge in a multiplayer context.

If it's too easy for you, play with GM made equipment with a group, no AoS/SE/ML abilities. Too easy = strip off whatever makes it easy for YOU. Just because YOU think something is too easy and not fun, doesn't make it too easy and not fun for others. I can solo Dread, it's not too easy, I can do it in a group and its still not too easy, and even if it was, it doesn't matter, its still hard for other people.

 

[Crystilastamous]

JC, (who started the whole vamp form discussion) was talking about vamp form in PvP initially, which ISN"T overpowered. Don't let him fool you and flip flop around that he is complaining about PvM.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

That's an entirely different subject. This poll is strictly about the nerf of Vamp form and the effect on dexxers, not skill + items in general.

First off I will say what I have said before, which is that a nerf implies change to something. Here you say they are nerfing vamp form, but what is the change? The change is involving the ruleset for necromancy and has nothing to do with the form itself. With the proper skill vamp would still work the same. This is referred to as template balance, not a nerf to vamp form.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I'ts a nerf. Let's not bandy semantics.

Besides, I'm done with this discussion. Until the opponents are willing to listen to what we're trying to say, there's no point in continuing with it.

 

[Masumatek]

Oh something I'd like to add...While I fully support the nerfing of the ability to use forms with limited or no real skill, I also fully support form use for real necros. I think the ward removal talisman is a ridiculous item that is not at all necessary and should be removed. People argue that it is a good thing because we have all these non-necros using vamp form. But after the ability to use forms without real skill no long exists, nor should ward removal talismen's ability to "poof" an opponent out of form.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Oh something I'd like to add...While I fully support the nerfing of the ability to use forms with limited or no real skill, I also fully support form use for real necros. I think the ward removal talisman is a ridiculous item that is not at all necessary and should be removed. People argue that it is a good thing because we have all these non-necros using vamp form. But after the ability to use forms without real skill no long exists, nor should ward removal talismen's ability to "poof" an opponent out of form.

I agree, once things get set straight I dont believe ward tallys are needed.

@bigangryjosher...

All you have done since another player brought up vamp form is complain about OTHER things. You have said time and again that the the change wasnt necessary but have given absolutely no reason why. If you tell me the sky is yellow am I just supposeed to believe you?

Besides, regardless of trammel or felucca ruleset this change includes both...and rightly so. There is no flip flopping, only you once again blowing smoke where none is needed. Run along now, Im sure Goose could use some assistance.

@ Conner Graham, if vamp form itself isnt getting changed how can you say vamp form is being nerfed? DIR!

 

[Obsidian]

Wow, so many drinking the hatorade out there. Bottom line, leave vamp form the way it is. There is a reason why there are so many +necro items in the game.

And those who think that a Sampire (or any necro form for that matter) is the only dexxer template that can solo a peerless, you are sorely mistaken. I actually regret the screen shots I posted last year of me soloing Dread Horn and Paroxy in the Samurai forum. What I thought at the time as sharing the enjoyment the template brought me with the stratics community has now turned into the beginning of the end (I apologize to those who play the sampire). Since I made those posts, the Sampire became very popular and the naysayers just cannot deal with a powerful dexxer template.

And to those who refuse to try the template, it isnt just putting vamp form on and standing there. You have got to know what the hell you are doing. you are not assured victory because you are in vamp form.

Don't even get me started on Greater Dragons. I'll stick to the subject. If the Sampire gets hit by the nerf stick, so should every other template that can solo peerless bosses.

LEAVE IT ALONE AND GET OVER IT

Baghdaddy1,

I just wanted to thank you for defending the Sampire template. I quit UO in 2000 and came back last December... just in time to deploy to the Middle East. So while I was in the real Baghdad, I read your threads over and over (I saved them on my USB stick) and pondered ways to make my Sampire when I got back in May. I still have a long ways to go, but he is coming along. Because of your posts, I got excited about UO again and actually enjoy the game. I am not a member of a guild and I usually play alone... so the possibility of being able to actually solo some of the hardest monsters in the game is exciting to me. I hope they don't nerf the template so some day I can actually achieve some great solo victories in the game.

-OBSIDIAN-

 

[Vyrquenox]

Im sorry but to claim Sampires arent over powered is ********.

want proof?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vsK9m6Ed4ao

thats a link to a shimmering done in under 9minutes by a sampire.

Tamers cant even solo a Shimmering... so sit there and try to tell me sampires dont need a "kick in the nuts"

Using +skill items to cast a spell to go into a form then removing jewels to keep the form needs nerf. You remove jewels meaning no longer have the skill for form then Poof no form. If your a tamer and you use jewels to get a pet and take jewels off Poof pet doesnt obey you.

Dexxers are overpowered as it is and theses Sampire templetes are super over powered.

I vote for the "kick in the nuts" to sampires

~Blade

alright, apparently vampiric embrace is causing so many people so much agony and strife they want to cause others to suffer. What a game. First off, that was a wraith dexxer. No vampiric embrace, the guy also has spirit speak for real too. So when the idjuts decide to say you have to have the skill I'll just dump anatomy. I created a whole storyline for my dexxer over the last two years and I'm not about to just turn him normal because some whiny babies are upset that it makes me happy and want to destroy that because I can actually fight stuff. How often do you see a melee fighter in on some of these bosses that isn't in vampire form? Hardly ever. First they wrecked evasion for samurai (and I am just a paladin vampire) now they want to wreck vampire for us. And you super briliant morons who keep asking 'duh how does it make sense that you can cast a spell and keep it if you don't have the skill?" Oh, I can come up with a way. How about 'tis magic!' Magical crap let me do it! I adorned myself with the artifacts and did the ritual and replaced them in their box! Its a game. All I'll lose out on is a few damage points. Whine whine whine. My suggestion: They nerf archers, because it doesn't make any sense for heroes to run around in circles on ethereal horsies plinking things with arrows. Then they nerf tamers, make more evil critters who unbond pets, make it so tamers can't stealth around if they have the skill. Nerf mages, remove lrc suits. (what is the point of reagents! How does a piece of armor permanently replace the power supposedly supplied by the reagents?

Actually, don't nerf any of this. I am tired of the constant 'ruin his game!' your blackjack analogy is faulty as well. you know why, flipper? Because you can go sit at that table too, there are seats available. You'd rather win less and make the people at that table win less too. It would only be valid if there was a big 'flipper not allowed at this table' rule.

 

[Vyrquenox]

People who don't want to abuse the clearly imbalanced mechanics are getting hurt in just the same way as people who play online flash games with highscore tables get hurt when others abuse game mechanics to raise their score higher than can be done legitimately.

Not so, it's a matter of choice to make a Sampire or not same as to make a Tamer or not.

Why should one playstyle have such a huge advantage over numerous other very similar playstyles? Why should people need to feel forced into playing a very specific playstyle in order to be even close to good at a game? Why can't people have lots of equal choices at the top, instead of just two? Why should rather specific high-end items be required to even play one of the two playstyles at the top?

Sorry but the vast majority of UO players aren't into the RP aspect

Quantity of people using a playstyle doesn't matter. It's a legitimate playstyle, and they shouldn't be spat on just because there aren't many of them.

Speaking of which if it was only 2 people doing the peerless would you be complaining? Things that 2 folks can do rather easily should be able to be done by one person busting their tail I'd think.

Yes, I do have a problem with two people being able to take on a peerless without it being exceptionally difficult.

ah so, now it must be 'exceptionally difficult' for two people. So we better nerf the heck out of tamers and mages, because I can sit at melisande all day long with a tamer and a mage and eat cheetos watching the tv. By your logic, if anyone figures out how to do something well and gets it down, they need to be punished. Not just 'vamipres'.

 

[Vyrquenox]

Will anyone out there object if i could solo peerless without VE, simply by using a HLL, HSL, HML weapon and some potions?

Maybe the weapon I used was crafted with a duped Val hammer? Complain about that?

Maybe we need to look in to EOO and consecrate weapon see if they need the bat?

Something obviously has to be changed if I can still solo peerless, right?

actually they need to nerf miasma spawn! I hear that with a bloodwood darkwood suit and a reptile bt kryss, most any dexxer can sit there and farm! not fair either! get rid of bloodwood suit. Make it so bandaids don't stop poison, btw cleanse by fire is too effective compared to mage version, nerf that. Armor isn't wearing out fast enough, make it wear out faster, put in a .1% chance that you shatter your weapons. The only people that should be able to gather any large amount of gold quickly should be tamers, and dexxers should not be able to fight anything level 5 fame or higher without being crushed. Oh and archers. Remember, this isn't swords and sorcery, its pets and bows!

 

[Surgeries]

I agree, once things get set straight I dont believe ward tallys are needed.

@bigangryjosher...

All you have done since another player brought up vamp form is complain about OTHER things. You have said time and again that the the change wasnt necessary but have given absolutely no reason why. If you tell me the sky is yellow am I just supposeed to believe you?

Besides, regardless of trammel or felucca ruleset this change includes both...and rightly so. There is no flip flopping, only you once again blowing smoke where none is needed. Run along now, Im sure Goose could use some assistance.

@ Conner Graham, if vamp form itself isnt getting changed how can you say vamp form is being nerfed? DIR!

No one should be able to keep Vamp Form, once they take off the jewelry and items, if they don't have at least 99 skill. Unless the Powers that Be change the required skill, to allow the "Overly Cramped Template" to cast the spell at, say, 35 skill.

Everyone who has Vamp Form, while either using real skill, or item skill, and keeps all their stuff on, should be able to do every single thing they do today, in Vamp form, including soloing Peerless, if their skill level allows it.

Other than that, it is ludicrous, and should be considered an exploit of game mechanics, as I have clearly stated, along with the other opponents of "Retained Skill" effects.

When Tamers can take off the items that allow control of a pet, and keep control of their pets, even if that means putting the Taming skill on a Soul Stone, then I think Vampers should be able to do the same.

I personally don't believe that Tamers should be able to even have increased Stable Slots from Jewelry, either...but that will have to be a different thread...

*Nods*

I have no problem with someone who either uses actual skill, or continually wears, or keeps equipped, the items allowing them to solo anything in game, as long as they have to keep it on, while they do so.

I am sure most don't have a problem with it, either.

 

[nushpapa]

Really won't make any difference if u require real or jewel/book/talisman etc... enhanced skills instead of having 34 necromancy on ur template (24 if u can afford the mask... 19 if u can afford the fishing pole).

When i played i used to have 100 inscribe on a soulstone.. and about 10 spare soulstones.. (full soul stones)... so for mages i can use the reflect magic/reactive armour trick...

The rich pvpers would just do the same for necro... have 11 soulstones.... lol then just soulstone ur **** away and soulstone it back.. walla ur necro form again. I think for each round of soulstoning (in and out) u need 3 soulstones.. so if u have 12 u can necro form 4 times a day... doesn't take long about a minute.

With those legeacy tokens that came out soulstones were very cheap i was getting them for 2.5mill each so i bought like 20-25 lol... solution found haaha... and from my experience the better pvpers tend to be the best pvmers or have some form of efficient uo income as well so yes most will be able to afford

But if that happens i definatly wun reactivate my account bcz i lost all my soulstones and like 90% of my weapons armour...weapons and armour i dun mind but fk the soulstones i am not willing to go through the workt o get them back... only 1 suit left thats for a vamp form poison(DP) ninja(dser) tactics(ai) 4:6 holy light spmmaer paladin fencer lol. Yeah maybe vamp makes me too overpowered byt remember if i get dismounted i can't wolf form haaha thats the disadvantage of necro

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

But if you're going to take that tack. Then tamer pets should be booted fom the stable as SOON as they remove their jewelry. Or unbond if their skill goes down.

Likewise, mages shouldn't be able to use the tome of knowledge to raise thier magery to be able to cast higher level spells. I can get almost 40ish? magery bonus from items?

You can't go at it half baked. To be fair and equitable what you do to one must be done to all. It's the same effect.

I think the real issue isn't that they cast the spell. It's the effects the spell grants. And if you're a necro your going to have SS anyways. Otherwise, what's the point?

The problem with your arguement is you are assuming that certain pets are controlled by their respective skills, however with necromancy and a dark worlf you have the full control of said pets due to the dark wolf...not from taming. The same applies for bush dexxers with birds. The upside is that they can use certain mid level pets with certain drawbacks. Neither can rez thier pets without help (or without weaving) from a tamer, and with the necro once they lose the dark wolf all control of the pets is gone. So whats the issue here? The skills were designed specifically to work the way they do, with both upsides and downsides. A bush dexer can bond a stupid bird, whats the difference with a necro as long as they have a dark wolf?

So who gives a crap if the pet is bonded...at least they need to have both SS and Necro to even think about controlling the pet. Vamp form on the other hand is going completely by skill not had and with jewels that dont need to stay on. Apples to oranges...again and again and agian.

 

[A.Entreri]

I have no problem with someone who either uses actual skill, or continually wears, or keeps equipped, the items allowing them to solo anything in game, as long as they have to keep it on, while they do so.

I am sure most don't have a problem with it, either.

ya exactly. does anybody know what happens if a tamer with skill jewels/tali were to take them off and start to command their pet? the pet is going to start barking and growling in anger. the tamer tries to command again with the jewelry off, the pet growls again, they do it a third and fourth time....."a greater dragon appears to have decided it is better off without a master". you know what happens when the "sampire" takes of their jewelry, bracers, fishing pole, et al? nothing they stay a vampire. if the "sampires" want to stay sampires then leave the jewels and whatever else on...like tamer have to.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

ya exactly. does anybody know what happens if a tamer with skill jewels/tali were to take them off and start to command their pet? the pet is going to start barking and growling in anger. the tamer tries to command again with the jewelry off, the pet growls again, they do it a third and fourth time....."a greater dragon appears to have decided it is better off without a master". you know what happens when the "sampire" takes of their jewelry, bracers, fishing pole, et al? nothing they stay a vampire. if the "sampires" want to stay sampires then leave the jewels and whatever else on...like tamer have to.

BINGO! The only problem now is trying to get the asshats who smokescreen evertyhing to see this is a legit arguement. Instead of even looking at the issue they go and post in a new thread about how they WTF pwned the idea down but in all actuality could never back up thier arguement.

@ Crystilastimus...not overpowered? One word....Jim. Think about it, and when you have a REALISTIC arguement for this come back and post. Leave the *well I sorta wtf pwned ur arguement in the other thread by sayin "nuh-uh!" * at the curb. Thanks. Got an issue with certain necros using bonded bakes? Bring that up too...but dont use it as an excuse of well if he does this I can do that...its not only lame but also counterproductive.

 

[Gildar]

ah so, now it must be 'exceptionally difficult' for two people. So we better nerf the heck out of tamers and mages, because I can sit at melisande all day long with a tamer and a mage and eat cheetos watching the tv. By your logic, if anyone figures out how to do something well and gets it down, they need to be punished. Not just 'vamipres'.

Nerf tamers and/or mages and/or adjust Melisande in a way that makes it more difficult for a tamer/mage combo without making it disproportionately difficult for other templates. Heck... give every last thing in Sosaria a buff, but give a slightly less of a buff to some than others so that everything is on a more even level if nerfs are really that bad.
And they don't need to be punished - I'm not asking for any fix to retroactively remove any benefit already gained by taking advantage of the situation. I'm not asking for any peerless artifacts that somebody got simply because they were using a Sampire to be deleted.
Anybody using items and/or soulstones to get the benefits of necromancy without keeping those items and skills on the character while vampire form is active has already, and will continue to until a publish goes through with a fix, gained from their choice. Removing the ability to do so doesn't lessen that gain - it just makes it so they can't continue to benefit from their template for as long as they may have previously expected.


Peerless bosses are supposed to be group content. If somebody can solo that content, or easily take on that content with only two people, either the players or the monsters should be adjusted.

A bigger problem then peerless bosses being soloed, however, is that certain templates are universally far superior to many other templates that are supposed to be (at the very least close to) at the same level of power in combat situations. Having trade-offs so that some templates are better against some content, while other templates are better against other content - that's just fine... but when one template is universally better than other templates that have no legitimate reason to be worse, there's a balance issue.



The biggest problem with Vampire Form is the capability of somebody to get the advantage of a skill without sacrificing skill points (and/or item property slots) throughout the entire time they gain the advantage of that skill... which makes it more difficult to balance everything else.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

Okay so hi everyone. First post on here, had an account before a long time ago. I've played a while...I don't care about participating in any poll. Question though, have they made some sort of adjustment to the sampire template? I was just curious.

Secondly, just my 2 cents worth here. I hate to say it, but after playing some traditional types of templates over the years...I could solo every room boss in doom and some of the lesser named monsters.

So my 2 cents is, you might as well just get rid of slayer weapons, slayer spell books, arties and all that stuff if anyone thinks the dexxer class is overpowered.

I noted in one of the discussions...perhaps not on here, is that dexxers are the only class to constantly be taking blows. No other class has to worry about that...or shouldn't be anyways.

Basically, if nothing has been done, then...nothing should be done. People complained about tamers for years as being overpowered. I hate to say it but...in my book, there are certain classes that should be able to solo anything.

Case in point: redmage with a ninja subclass in final fantasy. A properly specced redmage can solo just about anything in that game.

Everquest II same thing. Fill in the blank...same thing. I cannot think of any game where that is not the case.

END POINT: You might as well just make the creatures difficulty a lot harder and make it instances, raids, or whatever you want to call it...if you want to make content exclusive or people not solo. Some people want to solo...leave them be.

As it is...a good fighter can still solo most stuff in the game anyways. End of discussion. Oh...and none of this was discussing the use of vamp form either. Just a regular fighting template.