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[UO Herald] TC1 Balance Testing Changes
- Thread starter UODevTracker
- Start date
- Watchers 0
Hello all,
As soon as I get everything set up with my stratics account I'll post a nice formal detailed introduction and try to let you guys get to know me a bit.
For now I'll just address this thread.
0.) Don't Blame Draconi, he's just the messenger!
1.) These are as Draconi pointed out "candidate changes".
2.) Basically I am trying to implement a diminshing returns system to specific effects/specials/spells/abilities/items etc. This is to hopefully temper things so that they do not become overpowered.
3.) Balancing is exactly that a Balancing act. Some changes have a large area of effect and can't be implemented without fixing other things first.
Diminishing Returns, DOES NOT and will not apply to every single thing.
The Immunity discussion: One of the considerations in implementing a system like this is that people would immediately get their friends/guildmates to wail on them to build up their immunities before a fight. This is why its on TC1 before being in the publish.
Additionally just to be clear, any immunity effect is TEMPORARY.
Thanks for the testing data Sir Bolo!
It's late on Saturday here at EA mythic, and since I'm not running this post by anyone before submitting it I'm keeping it short and limited in scope.
So let me say these few words in parting.
The beauty of UO is the diversity of players, playstyles and templates. I respect this and any changes I hope to make will attempt to not cause gross imbalances/ flavor of the month templates between publishes. I will also attempt not to completely hose a template with any changes.
I will be as forthcoming as possible with change details.
Oh and thanks for the -"WARM"- Welcome
-Logrus
As soon as I get everything set up with my stratics account I'll post a nice formal detailed introduction and try to let you guys get to know me a bit.
For now I'll just address this thread.
0.) Don't Blame Draconi, he's just the messenger!
1.) These are as Draconi pointed out "candidate changes".
2.) Basically I am trying to implement a diminshing returns system to specific effects/specials/spells/abilities/items etc. This is to hopefully temper things so that they do not become overpowered.
- The detailed information or math behind it, is provided for those people who would like to test the system and make sure it does what its suppsoed to do.
- Its also there so for those who like to tweak their characters and their play style to take advantage of specific skills and abilities. I'll work on making the detailed explanations more reader friendly in the future.
3.) Balancing is exactly that a Balancing act. Some changes have a large area of effect and can't be implemented without fixing other things first.
Diminishing Returns, DOES NOT and will not apply to every single thing.
The Immunity discussion: One of the considerations in implementing a system like this is that people would immediately get their friends/guildmates to wail on them to build up their immunities before a fight. This is why its on TC1 before being in the publish.
Additionally just to be clear, any immunity effect is TEMPORARY.
Thanks for the testing data Sir Bolo!
It's late on Saturday here at EA mythic, and since I'm not running this post by anyone before submitting it I'm keeping it short and limited in scope.
So let me say these few words in parting.
The beauty of UO is the diversity of players, playstyles and templates. I respect this and any changes I hope to make will attempt to not cause gross imbalances/ flavor of the month templates between publishes. I will also attempt not to completely hose a template with any changes.
I will be as forthcoming as possible with change details.
Oh and thanks for the -"WARM"- Welcome
-Logrus
I love UO's ability to mix and match skills and templates. UO's lack of class restrictions, for me, the most fun MMORPG available.
The fact is there are some things that are, a bit overpowered. Some combinations of skills, items, abilities etc that are EXCESSIVELY overpowered.
Unfortunately somtimes a fix isn't as simple as flipping a switch.
For example, lets take concussion blow at its former.
This has been in the game since AOS. It did not immediately become the over used special it is now. There was the fun of uncapped armour ignores, lightning strikes, perfection slipping through in PvP, and a horde of other stuff that was much more popular.
Here is what fixing concussion touches, that I'm trying to take into consideration.
1.) PvP (the most obvious.)
2.)PvM (not as much as PvP since the damage was calculated the same against Mobs.
3.) The UO Economy: Crafters, resource gatherers, Player Vendors.
While some consider PvP changes to only affect the Fel crowd, just try to imagine the horror of crafters, vendor owners, etc if that mace they had on their vendor suddenly became as useful as the Tessen?
So rather than aiming at "nerfing" concussion blow, I instead aimed at making it more "situationally useful" with a control system to hopefully limit the rinse and repeat abuse present with alot of other things.
As for soloing bosses, I guess my un-well thought out opinion on that is: It should not be impossible, but should definitely not be remotely easy.
**Thanks JC,
I had it initially as an "Immunity" system but after explaining it to some others it was easier to explain it as kind of diminishing returns. Also some seemed to take immunity to mean that complete immunity was always achieved instead of partial immunity. Maybe I'll steal that effect saturation phrasing from you.
The fact is there are some things that are, a bit overpowered. Some combinations of skills, items, abilities etc that are EXCESSIVELY overpowered.
Unfortunately somtimes a fix isn't as simple as flipping a switch.
For example, lets take concussion blow at its former.
to quote myself 
-Damage was calculated based on the difference in Percent of MANA and HP.
Minimum 10 damage.
Take a Character with 100 HP, 100 Mana.
This character is hit for 20 Damage
If they continue fighting and are hit with a concussion, the concussion now does 20% of its bonus damage + the concussion base 10 damage + whatever damage the weapon and spell effects hit for.
If the player instead heals themselves using 12 mana in the process and is then hit with a concussion: the concussion does 12% of its bonus damage
+ concussion base 10 damage + whatever damage the weapon and spell effects hit for.
This basically means that it is a Lose/Lose situation for the Defender and Win/Win for the attacker.
The defender essentially gets penalized no matter how they choose to fight.
-Damage was calculated based on the difference in Percent of MANA and HP.
Minimum 10 damage.
Take a Character with 100 HP, 100 Mana.
This character is hit for 20 Damage
If they continue fighting and are hit with a concussion, the concussion now does 20% of its bonus damage + the concussion base 10 damage + whatever damage the weapon and spell effects hit for.
If the player instead heals themselves using 12 mana in the process and is then hit with a concussion: the concussion does 12% of its bonus damage
+ concussion base 10 damage + whatever damage the weapon and spell effects hit for.
This basically means that it is a Lose/Lose situation for the Defender and Win/Win for the attacker.
The defender essentially gets penalized no matter how they choose to fight.
This has been in the game since AOS. It did not immediately become the over used special it is now. There was the fun of uncapped armour ignores, lightning strikes, perfection slipping through in PvP, and a horde of other stuff that was much more popular.
Here is what fixing concussion touches, that I'm trying to take into consideration.
1.) PvP (the most obvious.)
2.)PvM (not as much as PvP since the damage was calculated the same against Mobs.
3.) The UO Economy: Crafters, resource gatherers, Player Vendors.
While some consider PvP changes to only affect the Fel crowd, just try to imagine the horror of crafters, vendor owners, etc if that mace they had on their vendor suddenly became as useful as the Tessen?
So rather than aiming at "nerfing" concussion blow, I instead aimed at making it more "situationally useful" with a control system to hopefully limit the rinse and repeat abuse present with alot of other things.
As for soloing bosses, I guess my un-well thought out opinion on that is: It should not be impossible, but should definitely not be remotely easy.
**Thanks JC,
I had it initially as an "Immunity" system but after explaining it to some others it was easier to explain it as kind of diminishing returns. Also some seemed to take immunity to mean that complete immunity was always achieved instead of partial immunity. Maybe I'll steal that effect saturation phrasing from you.
Well I guess some people are doing testing and some in depth research on at least one of the changes.
Strangely I was pretty sure I'd get more yelling over concussion than healing potions.
The balancing process is complex, and while there is an overall plan and fix list, the reality is not all can be done at one time, and those things may change.
I am listening, I do read alot of board postings, regarding problems and some of the proposed solutions. So please keep the information coming.
For those of you testing this stuff out I do have a few requests.
Its great to get information on how everything works, I think thats not just helpful to us developers, but the community as well.
What is really helpful, is if you try to break it. Exploit it, abuse it. I want to use these fixes in ways completely unintended.
For example:
How does Talon strike stack with a template that uses Necro, poison and bleed?
As a mage can you defend against that at all?
If not then, that may be a change that has to be addressed.
When I'm out PvPing, Or PvMing Necro Dexer Ninja templates just dont seem to be that popular, but you can be sure that as a player, after reading this post I'd be making on on TC. Maybe its the new flavor of the month.
This kind of testing is really, really, really helpful. It's much easier to fix something before publish than after.
The UO world allows this kind of whacked out infinitely customisable playstyle.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Lorgus
Strangely I was pretty sure I'd get more yelling over concussion than healing potions.
The balancing process is complex, and while there is an overall plan and fix list, the reality is not all can be done at one time, and those things may change.
I am listening, I do read alot of board postings, regarding problems and some of the proposed solutions. So please keep the information coming.
For those of you testing this stuff out I do have a few requests.
Its great to get information on how everything works, I think thats not just helpful to us developers, but the community as well.
What is really helpful, is if you try to break it. Exploit it, abuse it. I want to use these fixes in ways completely unintended.
For example:
How does Talon strike stack with a template that uses Necro, poison and bleed?
As a mage can you defend against that at all?
If not then, that may be a change that has to be addressed.
When I'm out PvPing, Or PvMing Necro Dexer Ninja templates just dont seem to be that popular, but you can be sure that as a player, after reading this post I'd be making on on TC. Maybe its the new flavor of the month.
This kind of testing is really, really, really helpful. It's much easier to fix something before publish than after.
The UO world allows this kind of whacked out infinitely customisable playstyle.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Lorgus
I'm not sure, I've still to do the official introduction thingy.
I'll probably get smited some by the bosses for posting before making official introductions, but I wanted to get in on the discussions and shed light where I could and glean information elsewhere.
I'm also looking into the finer points of spell interruption DOT stacking etc.
But considering stuff like being interrupted by damage has been in the game for more than 10 years, (I didn't play mage until mid '98) its not as simple as setting a variable or switch. You take damage you get interrupted.
Also, as I said there are many things I'd like to do (especially with regards to taking a good look at all special moves) , but if I did that, I'd be giving all the love and fun stuff to dexers.
Some fixes like just putting in a hard cap or raising mana cost etc, may solve an immediate issue but they also tend to make everything merge together and basically do the same thing.
So you end up with all these special attacks that may be written up differently, initially designed to do varying stuff, and all basically do the same thing. And sometimes a hard cap is exactly what is needed.
I don't like the idea of useless, spells, abilities, or specials. Then again looking at some things in UO as well as many of the other MMORPGs you will notice there tend to be tonnes of different abilities which usually boil down to a different name for the same thing.