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Tough Love: An Open Letter to Broadsword, Mythic, EA, OSI

Hannes Erich

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I still love the game. But I hate to wear blinders. Off and on over the years, I've blamed a lot of the game's fans for problems with the game and surrounding community. I'm not taking any of that back—some of you are impossible—but in retrospect, I think the biggest problem I've seen in an aging UO is successive game clients that failed to build on and thus appropriately evolve their predecessor.

Nobody was ever hired to come in and, with an expert eye for detail and a devoted attention to the community, analyze the hell out of what the 2D client was and what it was to its players back then. Or at least, you'd have a difficult time convincing anyone of that now.

Ultima Online did not give birth overnight to a playerbase who would never want for change. UO was once a new and shiny game. And it's not the only MMORPG to try on a facelift or three. So how have other games been able to do it, and do it with [mostly] approving playerbases? And then not look back? Everquest. World of Warcraft. City of Heroes. EVE. What gives?

You can't evolve something if you don't have a firm grasp of its DNA. When UO wanted to grow in the graphics or UI department, well, the results speak for themselves, don't they?—they hired some people to come in who had their own ideas ... and not a care in the world for what came before, a world that players—customers—felt invested in. The answer is that UO's various studios jaded the playerbase against such an ideal, and it isn't the playerbase's fault.

Look at all the differences between the Third Dawn client, or any other client, and the original one. They may as well have advertised it by saying, "Have you spent the last four years investing in your characters? Growing attached to the texture of the world? Well, here's something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! You'll like it! Or else!"

An empty threat in the end—"Or else" they'd have wasted a lot of time and money, as it turned out. Am I wrong? No.

And, when it comes to this at least, each iterative studio refused to learn from the mistakes of previous ones.

When Kingdom Reborn and then Stygian Abyss came around, they took thirty years worth of the franchise's bestiaries, threw them on a fire and said, "Meh." As a result, the Enhanced Client is filled with trolls that, I'm guessing, resemble [miniature] Scandinavian mythology rather than Garriott's Sosarian trolls; dragons that suddenly became Eastern-mythologized with the release of the client rather than Garriott's Western-mythologized, Sosarian dragons; Headless monsters with dismembered heads (Sosarian Headless monsters are abominations that come into existence without heads); Ettins that have suddenly shrunk to become the height of humans; the list goes on, and on, and on.

You might think I'm just nerding out here; if so, thanks for proving my point. You know what long-established franchises such as Marvel do to producers and directors who consider their vision more important than the established universe? It's a rhetorical question—no, they don't shower them with gold.

Floors, walls, mountains, prairies, trees ... a devoted artist would have taken all of these things and weighed them with (not against) the world's tile-based nature ... and then used the tools of a new century to express more fully the world's overall texture that was already there; to give us the same world we were already attached to, but do it with greater expression.

It's not impossible; we've seen devoted fans do it right here on the forums, and to [mostly] everyone's satisfactory amazement.

But, despite clue, after clue, after clue, fans have had to contend with producers and artists who just wanted to do their own thing instead of doing UO. Look in the mirror, and please, seriously, ask yourself whether it's any wonder there's been animosity between the two sides over the years.

I love the game. I'm a fan of Broadsword (an honest fan, unfortunately). But I can't defend the game's (at least) four studios ... for just never being willing to listen; never being willing to take a good look at the game that was already there before trying to improve it; and, consequently, for always throwing a whole lot of money into a huge, pointless hole in the shape of an ego.

And I'm not trying to sound petty when I say that it's literally too late now to do anything different without a truck full of cash, and probably a younger, more optimistic fan base; and let's face it, that's unlikely. You could address all of these problems today, but it would be wasted on the jaded, twenty-year-old fan base that you worked so hard to craft.

I'd respect you for trying. Maybe you would, too. But I'm not asking you to do that. I just hope that if you ever get a chance to listen like you should have listened here ... you'll do it. Given all the talents that you do have and that I could have written an even longer, more TL;DR letter about, I bet that'd be one satisfying game.
 

BrianFreud

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Just some unorganized thoughts:
  • The game is starting to look like noone in charge cares. EM items are littered with typos. Holiday gifts are full of typos. Hell, the post about the latest meet and greet even misspelled the name of the shard it was to be on, and even more recently, a news piece at uo.com misspelled the word "Ultima" in the headline. The new BODs came out full of issues- BODs asking for items that don't exist, BODs asking for things that simply made no sense (a 15x deed for academic books?), BODs with minimal amounts of points asking for large numbers of items that were specifically designed to be expensive, where the cost to craft doesn't come close to the reward, etc. We've had buggy things in the past (shadow iron leather bustier anyone?), but the quality of both releases and communications has seriously fallen in recent years.

  • EM events are NOT "ongoing content".

  • In line with Hannes' words, I really don't care about the fancy justifications for the "correct" view or look for art. The King's Collection looks like someone scanned photos in, all recent vases, plants, fountain, etc have the "wrong" perspective with regards to all other art in the game, and don't even get me started on the MSPaint job that was the 19th anniversary plant. Most new items from recent years just don't fit the world. Taken by themselves, some are ok - the snowfluff tree, for example. But they don't fit the world. Additionally, a strength of UO was always that the graphics weren't limiting; look what we were able to do, for example, with torches or bedrolls to build canopies, or bandages and such to build aquariums. But then you get something like the maple or snowfluff trees, with giant wrong-perspective pots that just look wrong no matter what you do with them. Go back to the basic concepts; let us take off the pots, etc.

  • More and more is becoming uncraftable. Sure, new craftables are also being added. But I'm having to hoard things that simply should be craftable. There's simply no reason I should have to transfer a SoA book from Atlantic if I need one on Balhae. SoA books, and many other things that have been "limited one-time gifts" should simply be craftable. "You really shouldn't throw that away because it cannot be replaced" is a concept that makes sense for rare deco, but not for anything functional.

  • The world isn't making as much sense anymore. Take "house only"; I was just on test looking at some of the 2016 christmas gifts, specifically the floor tiles. They're house only, so I can't put them on the ground. I can't put them in a trashcan. Unless they go into my bank, or I'm in a house, these things are stuck in my pack. (A similar concept with snow tiles, and this system itself being buggy, led to me losing 423 snow tiles last week when the server deleted them rather than pop them back into my backpack). The same goes for blessed gifts that cannot be thrown away, so you are essentially forced to toss them on the floor next to the trash can in Luna. "You can't put that down" and "you can't throw that away" simply break the logic of the world.

  • Too much of the world is pointless. Malas has various areas that seem to just be dumping grounds, and the world has zero lore. Everywhere else the same seems to hold; new content and lore may be added to a facet, but only until the next expansion, after which that old facet never again seems to get any development.

  • Systems simply don't make sense. "More tedium" does not equal "engrossing gameplay". Ok, new types of BODs have been added. There still is no logic to the system. In theory, NPCs need us to make them goods so they can stock stuff to sell. But 1) they have unlimited inventory, and 2) they don't sell a lot of this stuff - anything that uses special material types or rare ingredients, for example. So why does the smith need valorite platemail? Who's he selling it to, since it's not being sold to players? Next, presumably they give you a BOD because they actually need to stock more of X. So when they give a LBOD, shouldn't the next few BODs you get be the BODs to actually fill that LBOD? If I give someone an order for 20 of A, 20 of B, and 20 of C in 2005, I don't want to wait til 2025 for that supplier to actually fill my order; I want them to fill it as soon as possible. This applies all over the game: cannons, BODs, crafting, even loot. Whoever decided that it made sense for a boss to drop with 300 nearly-all garbage items on his corpse, rather than simply 4 or 5 really high end pieces? This all adds up to tedium, and tedium isn't fun.

  • Customer service. I remember a time when paging a GM meant maybe you wait 10 minutes. Now, if a GM ever responds, it's always way too late, and most responses seem to be either automated, or are simply emails saying "we can't do anything for you". With regards to the 423 snow tiles I mentioned above, I lost those on Thursday last week. I immediately paged, then an hour later sent an email to support. A GM finally responded Tuesday evening, by which time I'd long since deleted that temporary transfer character. I hear it all the time, be it someone with an item stuck under a house that decayed, or whatever other situation. When it takes days for anyone to respond at all, that's customer abuse, not customer service.

There's more, but I'll stop here.

Brian
 
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Uriah Heep

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You two guys are spot on. There can be (perhaps) some excuse for a bug or coding error (no excuse for it lasting months, tho) but there is absolutely NO excuse for some of the art we are getting these days. I don't know if the artist is married to the Broadsword studio head, or is EA's board chairman's great nephew, or what. But a strong producer with his hand on the pulse of this game shoulda had that artist's ass on a platter long ago.

I won;t even start a rant on the things they could have done with the BoD system but didnt do in this thread.
 

MalagAste

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You two guys are spot on. There can be (perhaps) some excuse for a bug or coding error (no excuse for it lasting months, tho) but there is absolutely NO excuse for some of the art we are getting these days. I don't know if the artist is married to the Broadsword studio head, or is EA's board chairman's great nephew, or what. But a strong producer with his hand on the pulse of this game shoulda had that artist's ass on a platter long ago.

I won;t even start a rant on the things they could have done with the BoD system but didnt do in this thread.
Well it doesn't help that our "Producer" said that what we get art wise is what we get like it or not.... they are NOT fixing it because this is the way it's going to be... Which to me says..... "Go sit and spin we don't care about the players or the game it's just a paycheck."

If anyone there actually cared the game wouldn't look more and more like crap... and if I had to post those pics again of how Nu'Jelm looks now... or how the coastlines look in the EC... I think you all got the picture.

The art sucks the content stinks and it's all about greed and making money...
 

BrianFreud

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Someone slap the Picard face palm on this please...
Say what you want, but I'm watching far too many old friends decide that, after 2 decades, there's just not enough left to justify staying. The devs have spent many a year now adding this and that new shiny thing to keep us around just a little longer... but all the new shiny has started to look like just another rehash of what already existed, or just simply doesn't fit the world. It's well beyond time for the dev team to start polishing up all that roughness, rather than adding yet more on top of it.
 

Acid Rain

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I agree with a lot of what has been said. The fact that while doing treasure chests, I have to pick through 150 total crap items looking for 1 or 2 items I'll keep really frosts my @$$.:rant2:

Who's brilliant idea was it to add a bazillion items of crap to boss loots like the roof Encounter then boot you out LONG before you can cursor over what you goto_O? You cant even do Exodus in a group without snatching EVERYTHING off the corpse ASAP because it goes public long before you can ID what dropped:coco:. Most everyone I know uses loot scripts (I don't) because it seems the DEVs have forced it upon players:wall:.

Why does adding more worthless items to loots & making it more and more complex seem to be the direction UO always takes? When looking through loot takes almost as much time as killing the monster (Medusa).... its not fun anymore. Just needed ta vent :D.

Couple other things I wanted to add :
  • All blessed items can be easily thrown away as long you put them in a bag/container 1st. Most anything you wish to drop on the ground, you can. Bag it up 1st.
  • As for GMs, I've rarely had a problem with them not showing up. Granted, I don't page often but when I have they always seem to show(exception being when you page a couple hours before server down they never seem to show). On the rare occasion when a GM did show up near server down time, it was GM River. Whether or not paging them actually helped the situation is highly questionable but for me they usually do show up. I have heard, "I'm sorry but I can't find/locate insert item or pet here " FAR to often.
Example: Good friend has very serious life-threatening illness in Nov & is hospitalized. Her accounts are closed down until things get under control. She's finally released from the hospital around April/May and re-subs her main account shortly after. She finds her dreadmare is no longer in stables nor is she riding it. Pages GM & he shows in abt 30 mins. GM acknowledges no one logged on her account except her back in November, according to records. Dreadmare is gone... "I'm sorry but I cant find ......" - nice GM visit but ZERO help....:(
 

Akalabeth

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Well said all. I just wish all of the art and new items would match the original items. I still mostly use the original deco items because I hate that the scale is so off on the newer ones. I do give credit that a few have been not bad but most are just too big and some just don't match the world.
 

MalagAste

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@Acid Rain I know what you are talking about with looting... and if I complain I'm told NOT to use Pinco's UI... but without Pinco's I can't loot at all.

I'm a very slow reader and Malag can only carry a small amount of stuff... so I need to know ASAP what is good and what is junk. Pinco's helps me do that by at least color coding what is relic worthy.

And I can quickly skim over the rest of the junk.

Without Pinco's help it'd take me ages to figure out if it was good or just garbage. I can't keep 100's of values in my head for what is the "max" you can have for every tiny thing... Just not possible. And Pinco's has the values right there... so you know right away that an item has the top values for things... But then because the client is completely borked and they refuse to fix it... if you use Pinco's and try to loot a public corpse with more than 125 items in it your going to crash and burn.

So it's a trade off ..... my own loot is at least instantly deciphered... but I can't touch a public corpse without crashing my client.
 

Prince Erik

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It's actually kinda sad in a way - I actually use UO as an example to the application development team that reports to me as an example of how NOT to develop software. Granted, I do have more apps to support and a team of 6, but we face similar issues so it's a good case study. The number one overriding theme they've taken away is : "Close enough or good enough is not close enough or good enough."
 

Belmarduk

Adventurer
Hi

After a break of about 10 years I have been playing UO again for a few months again now.

Even being so old and with some quirks, the game is still one of the best MMO´s ever --> the diversity the game has is y far better than 99% of the new stuff out on the market.
This small dev-Team (Broadsword) is definately doing a much better Job than the Mythic team

I have noticed that the playerbase has decreased ALOT since 2007 - there are many good new things in the game since - some things are not perfecty implemented

To further stop the downward spiral I see following mandatory Points:

- Get the game on Steam ( YESTERDAY !!!!! )
- Without starting another Client discussion, do SOMETHING about the graphics !!!! --> ideally a new Client ( modern 2016 isometric view like Diabolo(?) etc BUT with the Feeling and design of UO
Once the new Client is running smoothly ALL other Clients must be deactivated !!!! ( the 2 Client sidebyside fiasco does not work )
- then.... advertise.... a lot...

BR B.
 

DJAd

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To further stop the downward spiral I see following mandatory Points:

- Get the game on Steam ( YESTERDAY !!!!! )
- Without starting another Client discussion, do SOMETHING about the graphics !!!! --> ideally a new Client ( modern 2016 isometric view like Diabolo(?) etc BUT with the Feeling and design of UO
I totally agree.

UO has already been green lighted for steam but according to broadsword it's up to EA now which means i doubt it will happen.

They were teasing us with high resolution art work for ages then turned around and basically said it's not going to happen.
 

elster

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Ya'll really upset about your plants and tiles and ****, huh?
 

Gameboy

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@Acid Rain I know what you are talking about with looting... and if I complain I'm told NOT to use Pinco's UI... but without Pinco's I can't loot at all.

I'm a very slow reader and Malag can only carry a small amount of stuff... so I need to know ASAP what is good and what is junk. Pinco's helps me do that by at least color coding what is relic worthy.

And I can quickly skim over the rest of the junk.

Without Pinco's help it'd take me ages to figure out if it was good or just garbage. I can't keep 100's of values in my head for what is the "max" you can have for every tiny thing... Just not possible. And Pinco's has the values right there... so you know right away that an item has the top values for things... But then because the client is completely borked and they refuse to fix it... if you use Pinco's and try to loot a public corpse with more than 125 items in it your going to crash and burn.

So it's a trade off ..... my own loot is at least instantly deciphered... but I can't touch a public corpse without crashing my client.
And you keep playing and have more than one account :D
 

MalagAste

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And you keep playing and have more than one account :D
Trust me I know... and I keep asking myself why???

If I could get over the hording and just let stuff go..... I would be down to 3 accounts.
 

Lord Frodo

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I totally agree.

UO has already been green lighted for steam but according to broadsword it's up to EA now which means i doubt it will happen.

They were teasing us with high resolution art work for ages then turned around and basically said it's not going to happen.
How do you get "green lighted" for steam, do you apply or does steam "green light" everybody hoping that some of those games will join. Did BS/EA ask to be "green lite? How would steam work with UO? Would you be able to log on to reg servers or would it be like the old AOL server? What other MMO is on steam? How much does steam charge?
 

DJAd

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How do you get "green lighted" for steam, do you apply or does steam "green light" everybody hoping that some of those games will join. Did BS/EA ask to be "green lite? How would steam work with UO? Would you be able to log on to reg servers or would it be like the old AOL server? What other MMO is on steam? How much does steam charge?
I have no idea but here is the link:

Steam Greenlight :: Ultima Online
 

GarthGrey

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Ya'll really upset about your plants and tiles and ****, huh?
I

If that's all you got out of the first 2 wonderfully well thought out and shared opinions at the start of this thread, you should do the rest of us a favor and please move on to another game. I said that nicely so Mama...M...errr..so a mod won't have to clean the thread up.
 

Nexus

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So Steam did this not BS/EA and everybody thinks it is such a great idea but has no clue how it works or anything else but BS/EA are bad guys for not doing it, :thumbup1:
Steam doesn't randomly pick games to greenlight, a studio has to apply for it. But Steam does have certain requirements for games they distribute. I think one of them for MMO's has to do with tutorials built into the game.

EA is most likely the road block, they stopped releasing new titles on Steam a few years ago after Origin launched.
 

BrianFreud

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- Without starting another Client discussion, do SOMETHING about the graphics !!!! --> ideally a new Client ( modern 2016 isometric view like Diabolo(?) etc BUT with the Feeling and design of UO
You realize, some people actually prefer 2.5D isometric view? Imho, the Runescape system has it right; you can play 2.5D, isometric, or pan in as you wish down to first person view, or anywhere in between. But if you take away my 2.5 view, I'll quit 5 minutes later.

Trust me I know... and I keep asking myself why???

If I could get over the hording and just let stuff go..... I would be down to 3 accounts.
...precisely what I've been doing for a couple months now. :p
 

Gameboy

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Trust me I know... and I keep asking myself why???

If I could get over the hording and just let stuff go..... I would be down to 3 accounts.
Even still if you had 3 accounts you'd still be playing :D or even if you had 1 account for that matter. I just I may have a different view. My account is only 7 years old. I've played on and off. Only this year is the longest I have played ( That's solely because of the guild I am in). I don't collect things, or pixels, sure some are nice and all. For me UO is more of a social outlet. I accept that this what a 19 year old game with what six people running it? I do not have high or any expectations of them.

I mean for what I pay a month for one account I blow on food, ( like going out to eat ) so I get way more entertainment for my money in UO. I am grateful the game is still here and happy I get to be around some of the most awesome people I have ever had the chance to meet. UO I is like Facebook with fancy interface for me?
 

Belmarduk

Adventurer
You realize, some people actually prefer 2.5D isometric view? Imho, the Runescape system has it right; you can play 2.5D, isometric, or pan in as you wish down to first person view, or anywhere in between. But if you take away my 2.5 view, I'll quit 5 minutes later.
2,5D is ofc better Option - Diabolo was just an example ( I dont know that game really )
 

DJAd

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So Steam did this not BS/EA and everybody thinks it is such a great idea but has no clue how it works or anything else but BS/EA are bad guys for not doing it, 1:
Mesanna: Steam-- I know that's on everybody's mind. Um, we are--we have to do certain things in the game to prep for Steam, that's just have to--like a new player experience. Um, several other things that, if we just went to Steam, it wouldn't work. Uh, so we have to prep for it, and we're not gonna be doing that until the later part of this year. Whenever we have all the details, we'll let you know of course.

That was from the video at the start of 2015....

You should know Frodo as you posted in the thread!

Any update on UO coming to Steam?
 
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MalagAste

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Even still if you had 3 accounts you'd still be playing :D or even if you had 1 account for that matter. I just I may have a different view. My account is only 7 years old. I've played on and off. Only this year is the longest I have played ( That's solely because of the guild I am in). I don't collect things, or pixels, sure some are nice and all. For me UO is more of a social outlet. I accept that this what a 19 year old game with what six people running it? I do not have high or any expectations of them.

I mean for what I pay a month for one account I blow on food, ( like going out to eat ) so I get way more entertainment for my money in UO. I am grateful the game is still here and happy I get to be around some of the most awesome people I have ever had the chance to meet. UO I is like Facebook with fancy interface for me?
I've played less this year than ever... I pretty much play 3 or 4 of my 90+ characters anymore. The grind has disgusted me to the point that it's taken all the "fun" from the game. Used to be I played strictly for the RP ..... but that's been waning for years and honestly there is more of that elsewhere which I suppose is why I don't really do much here anymore. Also I don't much care to solo UO and my hours changed so now about the time I'm up ready to play everyone else is getting off to bed... which leaves me either playing on shards I can not understand the language on... stuck with Atl.... which is also slow that time of day and I'll be honest I don't care for Atl and to move 13 accounts is just not really an option especially not to somewhere like Atl which really would be the LAST place I'd go I tried Siege but it's just not for me... or playing solo... and there is little to nothing that I can do by myself that is "worthwhile". Unlike many "power" gamers I can't solo champ spawns or any of the new or old bosses much save Styngian Dragon and Navrey which gets dull fast. No one is really up playing when I am, which I went where people were which isn't here and then started playing more "solo" games... Diablo, Skyrim, No Man's Sky, and Divinity and I've been having a good time. My love for UO is still strong... and it will always be "my game".... but to me of late my game has changed to a point that it quit being the community it used to be and is now a game of greedy soloists which I find highly unappealing.


Suppose if I wanted to "go with the flow" I'd learn to cheat and use illegal 3rd party programs and all 13 of my accounts to rock at every event and in PvP with using masses of multi-boxed characters... but again that's not who I am or how I enjoy the game. So... I give up.
 

Gameboy

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I've played less this year than ever... I pretty much play 3 or 4 of my 90+ characters anymore. The grind has disgusted me to the point that it's taken all the "fun" from the game. Used to be I played strictly for the RP ..... but that's been waning for years and honestly there is more of that elsewhere which I suppose is why I don't really do much here anymore. Also I don't much care to solo UO and my hours changed so now about the time I'm up ready to play everyone else is getting off to bed... which leaves me either playing on shards I can not understand the language on... stuck with Atl.... which is also slow that time of day and I'll be honest I don't care for Atl and to move 13 accounts is just not really an option especially not to somewhere like Atl which really would be the LAST place I'd go I tried Siege but it's just not for me... or playing solo... and there is little to nothing that I can do by myself that is "worthwhile". Unlike many "power" gamers I can't solo champ spawns or any of the new or old bosses much save Styngian Dragon and Navrey which gets dull fast. No one is really up playing when I am, which I went where people were which isn't here and then started playing more "solo" games... Diablo, Skyrim, No Man's Sky, and Divinity and I've been having a good time. My love for UO is still strong... and it will always be "my game".... but to me of late my game has changed to a point that it quit being the community it used to be and is now a game of greedy soloists which I find highly unappealing.


Suppose if I wanted to "go with the flow" I'd learn to cheat and use illegal 3rd party programs and all 13 of my accounts to rock at every event and in PvP with using masses of multi-boxed characters... but again that's not who I am or how I enjoy the game. So... I give up.

I am by ALL means no power player. In FACT UWF has a guild hunt just about every night, that I do not go to. I am shy and I do not want to look dumb :) BUT I am always welcome to come. From what I can understand or make of it, UO is past its golden years? I must be pretty damn lucky because it's more of a social thing for me then a gear thing. Role Playing in UO I think would be a blast, though I've never done it, it seems it would be a great place for it. I do play on Atlantic. It's the only real home I've had, I visit Siege. When I started I was given a 7x7 small home in fel. I know have a 18x18 in the UWF township (which is pretty freakin awesome to me). I was in LLTS, then I went to UWF. Like other online games I use to come and go, loose my home and get another one for the time I played. THIS year is the longest I've played without taking any long breaks. And I haven barred from closing my account (long story). I guess we are in different boats, I like the social thing, though I am shy I like teamspeak that guild uses, it been priceless as far as learning the game goes and knowing the super awesome people I play with. Atlantic itself I've learned, things just tend to be more expensive cause allot of people play there.

I have not run into anyone that ruins the game for me or ran into an area so over camped I can never go there. I do know your play times, but if Atlantic is dead when you play that would suck. I just think it would be your best bet as far as playing with other people goes. If you're not playing with other people, I can see why you would play a solo game. I would also pack up some of those accounts, no reason to pay for something you're not going to use. Letting go maybe hard but as in real life sometimes it's the best thing to do.

-Gameboy
 

Yadd of Legends

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The grandkids are playing that, and they just about have me hooked!
Skyrim - Been through it twice at least, highly recommended
Divinity Original Sin - recently finished - do it only if you already have done Skyrim or Witcher 3
Witcher 3 - finally got a video card that can handle it and recently started, absolutely amazing
UO - spent time emptying 3 houses and closing 3 accounts, down to 2 accounts, mainly just Scalis net tosses lately because of the reasons mentioned in the first two posts
 

MalagAste

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Skyrim - Been through it twice at least, highly recommended
Divinity Original Sin - recently finished - do it only if you already have done Skyrim or Witcher 3
Witcher 3 - finally got a video card that can handle it and recently started, absolutely amazing
UO - spent time emptying 3 houses and closing 3 accounts, down to 2 accounts, mainly just Scalis net tosses lately because of the reasons mentioned in the first two posts
I pretty much as far as UO goes... log in to do my Governorship duties... hoping that at some point they add something worthwhile more than going to a meeting once a month... I heard a lot of talk at the start that made me think it would be a wonderful community building concept... but sadly it has fallen flat... mostly it's a way to get an extra mod or two from being loyal to a city on your suit for most folk. No one ever asks for a title and since they vanish the moment the elections start back up again most folk don't ask for one more than once. The novelty wears off real fast I guess.

They talked about putting together some things for us to use with the PEC and such and for asking the King for some event things and they talked about building some drop and play structures for each city to do things with but that was all talk... Working with the PEC seems hit or miss... going from never hearing back from them in time to get anything scheduled to having it be totally NOT what you asked for to a pain in trying to set up anything and having to rework everything over and over because it's either not allowed or not possible or whatever excuse. Anyway heard enough horror stories to decide it's more bother than it's worth especially when you go to a ton of trouble and 4 or 5 people show up but because there is no 100M + item worth whatever they won't bother doing anything. IMO Greed and Worth and all that have ruined the game I loved.

Used to be people were happy just to go to a tavern and discuss an epic battle with a dragon or something... we sat about and told stories, had a few laughs, maybe sparred a bit or chased off a few filthy orcs or whatever... but those days are long gone... and I feel there is no way to get them back. I remember poetry contests and readings, story telling and adventures... but now no one cares if it doesn't get them tons of gold. Seems everyone is obsessed with the making of gold and the collecting of "rare" junk they don't even know the story behind and they don't care because it's a rare colored pile of poo... or whatever.
 

Vlaude

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Skyrim - Been through it twice at least, highly recommended
Divinity Original Sin - recently finished - do it only if you already have done Skyrim or Witcher 3
Witcher 3 - finally got a video card that can handle it and recently started, absolutely amazing
UO - spent time emptying 3 houses and closing 3 accounts, down to 2 accounts, mainly just Scalis net tosses lately because of the reasons mentioned in the first two posts
I'm not sure why more UO players haven't tried Dark Souls. The first game in the series especially has a lot of things UO players would like. Not to mention it's a role-playing game down to the core. Granted it does involve some trial & error and has a high learning curve at first... last time I experienced something like that was... oh right UO in 1997 :D

Sorry to be off-topic. I do agree with the OP. In fact I don't see how anyone can really disagree. The last 5 years has felt more like the devs have been hanging on for dear life rather than looking into establishing a long-term future. It all makes sense at the same time though, which is why I don't put much effort into talking about it anymore :(
 

Scribbles

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Like a third world country building a water park in the middle of a drought... Still im here till the end...
 

WootSauce

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Thank you to @Mesanna , @Kyronix and @Bleak for all of your hard work.
I agree with this and thank them all for their efforts. What saddens me is the lack of vision or overall curator-ship of the game. Adding layers upon layers of over complicated (and in many ways unnecessary) systems, lands, etc as a priority as opposed to fine tuning and updating proven systems is a losing proposition in my opinion. Again, I respect and appreciate the current devs' efforts and dedication, I just wish that they had better direction and vision with what they choose to focus on and implement.
 

Yadd of Legends

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I'm not sure why more UO players haven't tried Dark Souls. The first game in the series especially has a lot of things UO players would like. Not to mention it's a role-playing game down to the core. Granted it does involve some trial & error and has a high learning curve at first... last time I experienced something like that was... oh right UO in 1997 :D

Sorry to be off-topic. I do agree with the OP. In fact I don't see how anyone can really disagree. The last 5 years has felt more like the devs have been hanging on for dear life rather than looking into establishing a long-term future. It all makes sense at the same time though, which is why I don't put much effort into talking about it anymore :(
Probably because it's too hard for us old timers who can't even PvP in UO. :)
 

The Craftsman

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@Mesanna , @Kyronix and @Bleak

Dont listen to the half a dozen fanboi's who think you are doing a good job. You arent. Instead start looking at the subscription numbers and people voting with their feet and do something about it. If you dont you will find yourself without a game to work on, and out of a job. Dont expect you'll walk into another one too easily with UO on your CV.
 

Archnight

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@Mesanna , @Kyronix and @Bleak

Dont listen to the half a dozen fanboi's who think you are doing a good job. You arent. Instead start looking at the subscription numbers and people voting with their feet and do something about it. If you dont you will find yourself without a game to work on, and out of a job. Dont expect you'll walk into another one too easily with UO on your CV.
LOL, I was waiting for a positive post from you ;)



I'll be adding this to the numerous threads about "UO's Dying" from past 10+ years (Are any other vets as depressed as I am, this week? posted in 2003). Now I will agree more needs to be done (my guild page outlines some things) but at the same time guys don't forget were working with a skeleton crew now, i'm sure they care as much for the game as we do but are limited on time and resources. Enjoy the game like so many others do and if you need a break then take one, i'm staying till the end this time :D
 
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The Craftsman

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LOL, I was waiting for a positive post from you ;)
Glad to oblige as I hate to disappoint.

Optimism and pessimism arent the only two options. In almost every instance I choose a third option. Realism.

There are a few folk on here with their fingers firmly in their ears, refusing to listen to anything they perceive as negative, whilst spouting out the usual fanboi garbage and refusing to face up to reality.

The reason there have been so many "Uo is dying" posts over the years is simple. It is. Very slowly and very painfully.
 

Merlin

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Glad to oblige as I hate to disappoint.

Optimism and pessimism arent the only two options. In almost every instance I choose a third option. Realism.

There are a few folk on here with their fingers firmly in their ears, refusing to listen to anything they perceive as negative, whilst spouting out the usual fanboi garbage and refusing to face up to reality.

The reason there have been so many "Uo is dying" posts over the years is simple. It is. Very slowly and very painfully.
Thanking the developers and recognizing their hard work doesn't equate to being a "fan boy".

Nor does extreme negativity and insults equate to being a "realist".

No doubt about it: this game has its fair share of bugs and issues. However, I have no reason to believe that the developers aren't doing any less than the most they can with the assets and resources given to them. They deserve to be commended for keeping the game alive as long as they have and can continue to do so... not ridiculed again and again by a player base that doesn't seem to understand this game has already lived past it's expiration date.
 

Yadd of Legends

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Thanking the developers and recognizing their hard work doesn't equate to being a "fan boy".

Nor does extreme negativity and insults equate to being a "realist".

No doubt about it: this game has its fair share of bugs and issues. However, I have no reason to believe that the developers aren't doing any less than the most they can with the assets and resources given to them. They deserve to be commended for keeping the game alive as long as they have and can continue to do so... not ridiculed again and again by a player base that doesn't seem to understand this game has already lived past it's expiration date.
There's your realism
 

BrianFreud

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@Merlin, there's a difference between ridicule and this thread. This thread, at least both my comments, and those from Hannes Erich, I view as constructive criticism.

The game isn't perfect, and it's constantly changing in ways that have been harmful. Entire facets have been added and forgotten; systems added and ignored, etc. Consider just quests; there's two entirely different quest engines, each with bugs. @Archnight, I've been around nearly two decades. Yes, there's still people playing, but the numbers on Atlantic today are less than you'd have found on every shard a decade ago. Pretending the numbers aren't continuing to drop is simply ignoring reality.

Yet what I hear from friends who leave is generally a sadness, that the game has become boring, they feel the devs don't care anymore, etc. Hannes' post, and mine, are our at least trying to get the devs to actually pay these things the attention that's long since overdue, rather than continue to just add new cruft over top.
 

arkiu

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I am not suggesting or hoping others do the same, but I personally will give it a few more publishes before considering closing shop. The next publish (animal taming update?) will be a real indicator to me, and if it gets rolled out looking ugly I can't imagine sticking around much longer. UO is long "past its expiration date" -- no denying that. Its morphed into an overly complicated, heavily convoluted mess that may be beyond the point of repair. If taming gets sloppy I will only continue to ask myself whats next?

I do not gain any weird satisfaction in criticizing UO's dev team, and I can't imagine why anyone would really. I think we all want UO to return to its glory days but with the current trend it appears less and less likely that it will ever reach even a tenth of what it was. And this is what kills me the most -- there are just no signs of improvement.

The devs do not deserve disrespect in any way, but they don't exactly deserve praise either.
 

MalagAste

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This is the thing... I hear all the time about people being sad, irritated, fed up, disgusted, and missing the "old day's" they loved and enjoyed.

I hear constant complaints about the Account Management System, Origin Store, Not being able to purchase certain things in certain countries... complaints about losing things, about paging GM's and waiting days and weeks to get a canned response that wasn't even close to what was pages... or did no good to help because it was TOO LATE... if an item falls under the house or something you need help ASAP... in short order (used to be 2 hours but now is more like 40 min) the item is gone and nothing will bring it back. Would be nice to get service for these things right away... and many just don't understand that we really do get attached to Pixels.

I hear complaints about the art, complaints about the grinds and boredom and about how no one is ever around for things like PvP or doing a spawn... or how the keys to things are such a pain to get .. or how they just don't have time for all these grinds.

Most of my "friends" in UO won't come to Stratics and post... they complain that UO doesn't have a way to contact them or that they report a bug or send and email and NEVER hear anything about and nothing ever gets "fixed"... They complain that they have to come to a forum to get help in game...

I then get frustrated and fed up. And I'm seriously starting to see what they are complaining about. I've posted and posted about things that I feel are important.. but it seems to fall on deaf ears or I'm told that it's "Pinco's" that is causing the issue when it isn't.

To me it just kills me to see the game in it's current state.
 

OREOGL

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Mesanna tries, but I swear sometimes she has the reading comprehension of a 5 year old. Despite this, I can think of no other game where the Producer would go out of there way as she has for the players. So there's something to be said there, and they have delivered some nice publishes etc over her tenure. You take the good with the bad I guess. I'm not certain another producer would have done any better, especially on a 20 year old game.

Bleak and Kyronix seem solid most of the time, and appear to generally care about the game and players. No issues with either of them really.

Misk seems disconnected at best and I've yet to determine what exactly he does for QA, because some of the things pushed out....well, speaks for itself.

The artist, I would have fired a long time ago. Some of the art he does, looks fine but the continuous errors would have led me to help him find something more suitable.

Really not many complaints with the game, except Idocs. 15 hours is completely stupid and appears most if not all houses go to the 15 hour mark. I would reopen a few accounts if they would just cut that time in half and set it as a fixed time. All Idocs take 7.5 hours to fall.

That's it for now, I guess.
 

GarthGrey

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Thanking the developers and recognizing their hard work doesn't equate to being a "fan boy".

Nor does extreme negativity and insults equate to being a "realist".

No doubt about it: this game has its fair share of bugs and issues. However, I have no reason to believe that the developers aren't doing any less than the most they can with the assets and resources given to them. They deserve to be commended for keeping the game alive as long as they have and can continue to do so... not ridiculed again and again by a player base that doesn't seem to understand this game has already lived past it's expiration date.
Not that I play on one, but you "thank the devs for their hard work" on a Free Shard. These Devs get paid, that's their thanks.
 

Meltedmantis

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I agree with the sentiment, but as a developer myself, it would seem the cause of most of your complaints.... art for example is really all consequence of "how do we continue develop a slowly dying and very old software product and still make a profit"

how many programmers, Q&A testers and artists do you think this game can actually afford? 1 programmer = 70k a min. let's say everyone is averaging 60k. If the UO team is only 5 people(for example) that's over 300,000 k of the budget just in those 5 people.

of course bods are kinda broken. because with a small team, doing the bulk of the work, push it out and fixing the issues later is the only way it gets done. We may not like it but let's look at the state of the game using a lens of reality
 

Merlin

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Not that I play on one, but you "thank the devs for their hard work" on a Free Shard. These Devs get paid, that's their thanks.
If you personally don't want to thank the developers, that's on you. No one is forcing you.

But that certainly doesn't mean other players can't. It certainly doesn't mean that they don't deserve recognition for doing all they do with their limited resources, all while listening to snotty personal attacks and comments like this one geared toward them. Their thanks and recognition extends beyond payment - just as it does with any other company and how their employees should be treated.
 
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