The high strength requirements on plate armor need to go away.

[Spock's Beard]

So I decide to go fight that one guy in Tomb of Kings that was mentioned in another thread, and next thing you know I'm standing there with no tunic or pants on. What the hell? Oh, it turns out he spams a -30 strength debuff and my armor fell off. I killed him anyway because whatever, but this was really obnoxiously stupid. The high strength requirements of plate are an ancient relic of the pre-AoS era when plate armor actually provided more protection than other types, and there hasn't been any reason for them in 13+ years.

"But Spock, it provides more stamina protection than--"

Stop. Ringmail, or any metal armor, provides the exact same stamina protection.

"But Spock, it's just logic, see plate is heavier and roleplay-wise you would expect--"

Stop. Stone armor only requires 40 strength.

"But Spock, I oppose literally any suggestion anyone makes by posting a jpg of an Easy Button because I'm stupid and don't understand any--"

Stop. Go stick your head in the toilet.

And while we're on the topic, is there really any reason for strength requirements on anything at all? I mean does it make any actual difference to anyone in the world that chainmail takes 60 strength but ringmail takes 40? Has anyone in the history of UO ever run with low enough strength to care? The high strength weapons are all slow garbage too. I kinda think strength requirements have been forgotten by the world and I'm just the last angry man wearing plate fighting some cheesy monster that spams a strength debuff nobody else would even notice.

Please stop leaving my favorite armor nerfed because it used to protect more back in like 2002.

This is one of those things I really wish they'd just go "Yeah that's dumb, we'll backspace away that 95 and type in a 65 right now!" instead of maybe at best "We will think about this and put it on our list of things we'll never actually do" if you bug them long enough.

 

[Spartan]

I still think **some** strength requirement is needed, but overall I agree that it is really hard to justify the base STR requirements today. Hell I remember the days when you built a suit and only 1 or 2 helmets did NOT affect stamina! Those were the headgear to have.

Yup - lower STR requirements all around on armor and weapons - at least 15 points I think.

 

[Nexus]

"But Spock, it's just logic, see plate is heavier and roleplay-wise you would expect--"

Anyone who says this has a poor understanding of medieval armor. Chain and Field Plate weighed roughly the same, with the Plate allowing for better movement as it's articulation, and the rigidity of he armor itself minimized the inertial effects that made Chainmail "drag". Jousting Plate though was a different story, it was much heavier in design and necessity, but this was largely irrelevant because the weight would be born primarily by the mount and not the wearer.

 

[kelmo]

 

[Nexus]

View attachment 55557

You shilling your Autobiography again?

 

[ShriNayne]

What I really hate is finding a nice hat and then noticing it requires 125 strength...honestly what must that thing do to your head??

 

[Uriah Heep]

Love my Val plate suits on archers and dexxers. Would really love to see some action on this too, Totally agree with Spock on this!

 

[Capt. Lucky]

In a RP sense I'd love to see plate get some fairness to make it more useful. I just like the look of plate in a medieval game and if you go back to the way it was back in the day, plate was the way to go. At least till they invented crossbows. Currently all my characters use leather because it's a clear advantage in many respects. I wish that wasn't the case.

 

[Troll The T Hunter]

"era when plate armor actually provided more protection than other types"

they really dropped the ball on this one. They need to take the strength requirement off/down or give it an added benefit.

 

[Tjalle]

Why is it that every time something doesn´t go your way you come crying here on UHall, calling things stupid and demanding the game to adapt to you instead of you adapting to the game?
I can understand someone asking for a thing or two over the years they play but with you it´s Every. Single. Time.

"A raven stam blocked me. We must change the game! *posts on UHall*"
"My GF doesn´t like this feature. We must change the game! *posts on UHall*"
"I meant to go right but I went left. We must change the game! *posts on UHall*"
"I put in this amount of time and only got this amount of gold? We must change the game! *posts on UHall*"

Join the dev team or stop posting nonsense like this. This is Ultima Online, not Spock's Beard Online...

 

[Picus at the office]

Why is it that every time something doesn´t go your way you come crying here on UHall, calling things stupid and demanding the game to adapt to you instead of you adapting to the game?
I can understand someone asking for a thing or two over the years they play but with you it´s Every. Single. Time.

Wow, what a silly thing to say. Does it reduce the "value" of this forum because you think he posts to much? Are you saying that if a person has a issue with an aspect of the game they are only allowed to post twice over a decade in the hopes that the team adapts to the changes they placed in game?

It's actually a fairly valid question to ask if there is any thought to str requirements and the modern game play.

Lastly, without actual game players asking questions where is the team going to get direction from? You can look over 90% of the additions in the game since 2003 and see that most have died from neglect, lack of follow through or simple lack of in game knowledge. Thank goodness people like Spock still care enough to post.

 

[Spock's Beard]

I REALLY DON'T LIKE SPOCK'S BEARD BUT I CAN'T COME UP WITH EVEN A FLIMSY REASON TO DISAGREE ON THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD

 

[Uvtha]

So I decide to go fight that one guy in Tomb of Kings that was mentioned in another thread, and next thing you know I'm standing there with no tunic or pants on. What the hell? Oh, it turns out he spams a -30 strength debuff and my armor fell off. I killed him anyway because whatever, but this was really obnoxiously stupid. The high strength requirements of plate are an ancient relic of the pre-AoS era when plate armor actually provided more protection than other types, and there hasn't been any reason for them in 13+ years.

"But Spock, it provides more stamina protection than--"

Stop. Ringmail, or any metal armor, provides the exact same stamina protection.

"But Spock, it's just logic, see plate is heavier and roleplay-wise you would expect--"

Stop. Stone armor only requires 40 strength.

"But Spock, I oppose literally any suggestion anyone makes by posting a jpg of an Easy Button because I'm stupid and don't understand any--"

Stop. Go stick your head in the toilet.

And while we're on the topic, is there really any reason for strength requirements on anything at all? I mean does it make any actual difference to anyone in the world that chainmail takes 60 strength but ringmail takes 40? Has anyone in the history of UO ever run with low enough strength to care? The high strength weapons are all slow garbage too. I kinda think strength requirements have been forgotten by the world and I'm just the last angry man wearing plate fighting some cheesy monster that spams a strength debuff nobody else would even notice.

Please stop leaving my favorite armor nerfed because it used to protect more back in like 2002.

This is one of those things I really wish they'd just go "Yeah that's dumb, we'll backspace away that 95 and type in a 65 right now!" instead of maybe at best "We will think about this and put it on our list of things we'll never actually do" if you bug them long enough.

It either needs to be done away with or given a reason. As is, like you say, there's no call to use other than rp.

 

[Deraj]

I wanted to make a thread about this subject earlier in the year but had completely forgotten. Strength requirement is mainly a relic from old-school UO that has no purpose in a unified design (not to imply there is a unified design). Platemail tunics require 95 str, but provide no more resist or stam protection than ringmail and chain. It doesn't make any sense. I have done the encounter in Tomb of Kings as well which was a pain, but I encountered this issue much more regularly when fighting Minax captains in Blackthorn's dungeon - even with 90 resisting spells a curse can cause my platemail tunic to fall off - which leads to another issue I have - how does not having enough strength cause my armor to unstrap itself and fall off my body? I can carry it in my backpack but I can't wear it? The whole thing needs a revamp.

 

[MalagAste]

Well ...... to be perfectly honest playing the "RP" card and the it has to require this much str because it's plate... is silly in a game like UO.

I hate to break it to all the "realists" but UO while seemingly set in Medieval times etc... isn't at all Medieval... I'm sorry but back in the "times" of Renaissance they didn't have the 1 major thing that we have in Sosaria... MAGIC.

Really honestly you can base your RP any way you like to based on the fact that we have MAGIC. Did they have Ogres, Trolls, Orcs and all in Medieval times??? NO... Did they have a mage casting gate, recall, weaken on folk... NO... So any argument that the laws of RL physics apply to Sosaria are moot. When I can pull up a pocket pony and run away.

 

[Spock's Beard]

What to do if you're le professional game designer who refuses to do anything the easy way:

Normalize strength requirements across the board by tying them to item weight. If requirements aren't met, inflict existing "you are overburdened" stamina loss penalty while spamming a warning overhead, but do not unequip the items.

Actual sensible option:

Just remove strength requirements from the game. The values are essentially arbitrary, have been irrelevant for over a decade, and don't accomplish anything except to pointlessly devalue certain items.

 

[Deraj]

I'd just see it gone altogether. My only issue with adjusting strength requirements based on item weight is, are we sure that item weights aren't wacky in their own way? Because I assume that weights item have now are, like strength requirements, another ancient, neglected, and out of date aspect of the game.

 

[Briken]

If strength requirements are lowered, than archers will be wearing nothing but plate with their 220 stamina. Plate would be the only thing worn and not for a "melee tank"

 

[Deraj]

They could just as well wear ringmail and chainmail, with lower strength requirements. I fail to see how they would benefit specifically from plate.

 

[MalagAste]

Never really cared for the look of plate... Still like the look of chain and studded leather better.

 

[Lord Arm]

why are we crying about this really. just my opinion
the loot is so good and there's imbueing, u should be able to get enough str.

 

[J. E. Tamer]

If we're reducing the strength requirement for plate, can it be reduced for the woodland chest too?
If we're complaining about Niporailem the Thief, can we complain about Dreadhorn too (-20 debuff, and casts a -30 weaken on top of that)?

 

[arkiu]

But Spock......

I never quite understood why the devs decided to use refinements instead of adding varying degrees of protection based on armor type e.g. platemail has increased resists cap (say 90?), decreased dci cap (say 15%), leather has decreased resist cap (say 60?) and increased dci cap (60%?). Of course this is in addition to stat regens and perhaps they could get creative with other +'s/-'s (but not too creative...). Given the mechanics of the game already in place, this seems simpler than the refinement implementation, and makes more logical sense. Did they try this at one point? In terms of the high strength requirement, this can be accounted for with imbuing, artifacts etc. but could also use a lowering (maybe to 75).

I believe the devs biggest issue is they fail to see simpler solutions. I see a lot of what they implement is done crudely and seemingly with little thought - its as if they come up with an idea one day, and start implementing it the next without really understanding how it impacts the game.

I agree that in most cases it doesn't really seem to make sense to use platemail armor. This seems consistent with the mentality they must have off adding new content, and leaving old content out to dry. There are soooo many skills, lands, dungeons, armor/weapon types, mob loot tables, artifacts etc. that are totally useless and should be made relevant. When was the last time you saw someone hunting in Wind.... with platemail and a bardiche....?

Totally unrelated but they're second biggest issue is tailoring this game to a niche group of players that prefer holiday deco, plants, grinding, bods, looting idocs etc. rather than solidifying game play mechanics that should have been done long ago that can greatly improve the actual game play, ya know, like pvm and pvp. I can't wait to spend weeks mindlessly grinding out BODs and getting awkward looking deco!

I come here after work to vent btw. F'in Mondays...

 

[Spock's Beard]

why are we crying about this really. just my opinion
the loot is so good and there's imbueing, u should be able to get enough str.

Generally yeah, but there are occasional oddball monsters (dread horn, the tomb of kings guy, the little bugs in the kotl city) that spam 20, 30, even 40 point strength debuffs that ignore resisting spells. The bugs have the biggest debuff and are new, too, so it's not like it's a gimmick that's been forgotten.

I just don't feel like "is wearing armor that was better in 2002 but no better today" is a good reason for that debuff to go from annoying to crippling.

 

[Uriah Heep]

When was the last time you saw someone hunting in Wind.... with platemail and a bardiche....?

If wind were a warriors dungeon, you might see that. But it is purely a Mage area. I love plate, aesthetically (is that the word) I think it looks stupid as hell watching people run around banging mobs with swords and such, wearing leather...

 

[callum_fitzhugh]

Love my Val plate suits on archers and dexxers. Would really love to see some action on this too, Totally agree with Spock on this!

A dexmonkey in a Plate suit? F=== me when I was a dexmonkey leather armour was the best and made LOGICAL rp sense. Lighter armour means you are quicker - you cant be serious about the whole concept of plate NOT making a warrioe fight and look like a tank

 

[callum_fitzhugh]

Well ...... to be perfectly honest playing the "RP" card and the it has to require this much str because it's plate... is silly in a game like UO.

I hate to break it to all the "realists" but UO while seemingly set in Medieval times etc... isn't at all Medieval... I'm sorry but back in the "times" of Renaissance they didn't have the 1 major thing that we have in Sosaria... MAGIC.

Really honestly you can base your RP any way you like to based on the fact that we have MAGIC. Did they have Ogres, Trolls, Orcs and all in Medieval times??? NO... Did they have a mage casting gate, recall, weaken on folk... NO... So any argument that the laws of RL physics apply to Sosaria are moot. When I can pull up a pocket pony and run away.

Are you sure there are no Ogres, Trollss etc now?

 

[Capt. Lucky]

It either needs to be done away with or given a reason. As is, like you say, there's no call to use other than rp.

Plus plate just looks super cool. That's a real factor. Gals aren't looking for their knight in shining leather

 

[drcossack]

If wind were a warriors dungeon, you might see that. But it is purely a Mage area. I love plate, aesthetically (is that the word) I think it looks stupid as hell watching people run around banging mobs with swords and such, wearing leather...

Yup. And my tamer's luck suit is mostly plate (Mage Armor, but still), although I never go to Wind. Never really have a reason to these days.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

A dexmonkey in a Plate suit? F=== me when I was a dexmonkey leather armour was the best and made LOGICAL rp sense. Lighter armour means you are quicker - you cant be serious about the whole concept of plate NOT making a warrioe fight and look like a tank

Yep, i remember when heavier armors such as Plate not only offered higher protection, but also had a DEX Penalty associated with them. There was a popular suit setup then called the "Heavy Archer Suit", which consisted of a Chainmail Tunic and Leggings with Platemail Arms, Gloves and Gorget, and a Close Helmet. It offered a good balance between AR and DEX. The only template that would consistently wear full Plate back then, was generally Macers, since they were slow af anyways. Hell, way back in the day, DEX/Stam didn't even affect swing speed, just how long you could run for.

 

[MalagAste]

Are you sure there are no Ogres, Trollss etc now?

Well now I can say that there are indeed Hobbits. My sons friend is a total testament to the race. Short ..... and has largest, hairiest feet I've EVER seen... LOL.

 

[Kirthag]

Actually ...

Being a medieval combat re-enactor and fighter in the SCA, (yes, I really do fight) I know a bit or two about armor, what protects, and what doesn't - as well as the construction of the stuff (after all, I made my own fighting armor).

Chain mail is made of all metal, whereas Ringmail, is constructed of wide, metal rings sewn onto a leather base.

Chainmail is waaaay heavier - my chainmail shirt weight about 120lbs. Great for moving, sux for blunt-force protectin. I don't wear it much except for show and tell.
I am working on a ringmail set - but again not much for blunt force protection and wearing for tournaments will result in many bruises.

Plate you may think is "easier to wear" for its articulation, but that would depend upon the cut of the plates, exactly WHAT style a fighter is wearing, and IF chainmail is worn with it (for yes, it has been). I prefer plate armor for its protection, but my mobility in combat is restricted - even if I use smaller plates.

I find that brigadine armor (metal squares sewn onto a leather base ) tends to be flexible, but needs lots of repair due to the smaller metal plate sizes
A coat of plates (overlapping metal within cloth, think the Visby coat of plates) and is not so good for movement, but very good for protection as the plates are larger

For the most part, in UO, the standard plate armor is very stiff, regardless of the articulation, due to the large sizes of metal plates in use. Especially the Virtue Armor set is _very_ stiff. Look at the artwork, it is a single chest plate with panels at the sides, layered metal sheets at the hips, and large plates again for the legs. That is NOT something I'd want to wear in combat, regardless of articulation.

What I would really like to see is brigadine or coat-of-plates in game. But then, with all the ick artwork being presented, I seriously doubt the current roll of artists pay attention to accuracy, let alone historical accuracy in armor.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

Well now I can say that there are indeed Hobbits. My sons friend is a total testament to the race. Short ..... and has largest, hairiest feet I've EVER seen... LOL.

Actually, a "Hobbit" species of hominid did exist, ****-Floresiensis. Adults stood at about 3.5 feet tall, and they lived as recently as 12,000 years ago. There is some amount of debate of whether they really are extinct. In Flores and Indonesia, they have stories dating back hundreds of years, to recent times, of a small humanoid they call the "Ebu Gogo" or "Orang Pendek", which matches the description of ****-Floresiensis.

 

[Slayvite]

One of the Top 5 reasons I quit.
I used to roll a Pure Paladin but they constantly screwed Melee warriors over and over, forcing everyone to have to take Necromancy (or other magic skills) to be able to survive....then they killed off Bandages....add to that the constant annoyance of High Str armour pieces, the fact any new mob would hit you for like 100hp if you were in melee range.....ect.

Only conclusion is to quit.
Stop thinking you can change their ways, just quit and move on.
After a few weeks you won't ever look back and more likely you will be embarrassed that you clung on to a dead horse for so long.
I pop in to read these boards every now and then and NOTHING ever changes, still the same c**p that was being asked for when I played......
Y'all need to realise, they don't give 2 hoots what you think or want.

 

[Spartan]

I wanted to run a pure Paladin when they came out but realized that it was darned hard to survive sometimes. So the guy has healing as well and uses bandages. Some years back a bunch of us made a Destard run for the heck of it and my Paladin was able to nicely rez and heal all the ghosties that came of it. I'd have burned thru mana a lot more than I did if I'd run pure Pally.

My tactic ... Paladin resurrect for a group of ghosts followed by bandages on each as needed to heal them up. By that time I would have mana and bandies on myself with a bit of divine fury to regain stamina.

 

[DJAd]

Can't believe there is any need for 4 pages of this. Just remove it. No need for discussion really.

 

[MalagAste]

I'm still of the opinion that they should have taken my idea to allow crafters to "alter" any item to another item of the same slot.

So you could take the Inquisitors helm for instance and make it into a skull cap if that is what suits you... NOTHING about the item would change save the graphics... It would still for all purposes be a Helm... but it would just LOOK like a skullcap... So you couldn't take something that isn't medable and magically make it medable... but you could look however you like no matter what jumble of items you have.

 

[Spock's Beard]

I'm still of the opinion that they should have taken my idea to allow crafters to "alter" any item to another item of the same slot.

So you could take the Inquisitors helm for instance and make it into a skull cap if that is what suits you... NOTHING about the item would change save the graphics... It would still for all purposes be a Helm... but it would just LOOK like a skullcap... So you couldn't take something that isn't medable and magically make it medable... but you could look however you like no matter what jumble of items you have.

The whole med verus nonmed thing was another artifact of the old pre-AoS days that needed to just go away. They could have just made everything medable, distinguished metal from leather via stam protection vs LMC if they really felt like they needed to, retired the mage armor property, and been on their way. Instead we got this convoluted system where mage armor is a property with almost no reason to exist that you pay a quarter-mil to get deleted off of items.

 

[MalagAste]

The whole med verus nonmed thing was another artifact of the old pre-AoS days that needed to just go away. They could have just made everything medable, distinguished metal from leather via stam protection vs LMC if they really felt like they needed to, retired the mage armor property, and been on their way. Instead we got this convoluted system where mage armor is a property with almost no reason to exist that you pay a quarter-mil to get deleted off of items.

One of my biggest pet peeves with the system is: Why give something the property of being a "Mage Weapon" and then NOT have it be Spell Channeling???

WTF good does the mage weapon property do when the instant a MAGE goes to use it and be a MAGE it's NOT in your hand???

Most insane completely stupid thing ever.

 

[Deraj]

For another example of strength requirement absurdity, take a look at shields. An Order Shield requires 95 strength to wield. A buckler, 20. Yes, that seems "realistic" I guess, but it doesn't translate into any kind of actual trade off. The order shield doesn't provide anything more than a buckler would. Unless the devs want to implement some kind of bonus / trade-off, the strength requirements should be removed entirely.

 

[Dot_Warner]

As someone who wears plate, I'm entirely in favor of reducing (or eliminating) the strength requirements.

With all the convoluted systems in UO, Mages still pretty much only wear leather, and the best armor for a melee character is studded leather. Metal armor has little reason to exist.

I also still want crafters to be able to alter any wearable item into any other item graphic for the same slot. Not some overwrought, overthought, or grindy system (I'm looking at you, Blackthorn's Dungeon). Just a simple click "Alter," choose the graphic style you want and be done with it.

 

[Zalan]

What this is a Medieval Fantasy? I thought I was playing a Semi-Steampunk MMORPG. All we are missing are Airships and Guns. We have Mechaniods, cannons, and explosives.

This should of been part of Reinforce/Refinement system. If you
Reinforce your armor to absorb more damage it should be heaver. If refine your armor it should be lighter and allow for greater defensive chance.

The current Reinforce/Refinement system is to encumbering for the average person. They should of gave Blacksmith the option to specialize in one or both styles. Instead of it being items in treasure chests or something for thieves to steal from shops.

All the system did was throw a bone to T-hunters and Thieves.

 

[Spock's Beard]

Refinement system

Of all the things I love to pancake about on this forum...

They spent, what, months working on that crap? Posting designs, going back to the drawing board over and over trying to come up with something that wouldn't get booed off the forum, then finally giving up and grimly patching in into the game amid a hail of thrown tomatoes. I think I've seen a total of like three people using refined armor, ever.

Imagine if they put that much effort into something anyone liked. Even the people who would want to refine their armor mostly don't have the stomach to wade through the billions of random non-stackable items involved.

 

[MalagAste]

Of all the things I love to ***** about on this forum...

They spent, what, months working on that crap? Posting designs, going back to the drawing board over and over trying to come up with something that wouldn't get booed off the forum, then finally giving up and grimly patching in into the game amid a hail of thrown tomatoes. I think I've seen a total of like three people using refined armor, ever.

Imagine if they put that much effort into something anyone liked. Even the people who would want to refine their armor mostly don't have the stomach to wade through the billions of random non-stackable items involved.

The only thing I every pick that junk up for is to toss it in the trash for points.

 

[chester rockwell]

I see some refined armor....kinda on the reggy, too.