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The Bans are happening in droves!

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Taylor

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1) LESS PEOPLE ON THE SHARD TO PLAY WITH/AGAINST 2)OVERALL NUMBER OF SUBSCRIPTIONS THAT UO HAS.THANKS FOR HITTING THE TURBO ON UO WAY TO GETTING THE PLUG PULLED FOR LOW SUBSCRIPTIONS.
Of course, there have been those scores of people who have cancelled their accounts over the years due to cheating...but we'll just keep them to ourselves and pretend like people will only play if cheating is allowed. ;)
 

popps

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They may well assume that coming down on the smaller problem will risk losing fewer players.

This is announcing to the bigger groups of cheaters that Marshal Cal has rode into town and that it's time to duck & be good, or else.

The jail, or gallows winds up less crowded this way.


Well, I'd rather see those who cheated with the worst consequences to the game (scripting for resources/BODs/Library Collectibles/PvP scripts and PvP Hacks) be hit first and more heavily than the other way around....

I mean, I would hate to see those who did cheats with minor consequences to the game overall (unattended skill macroing) pay dearly and instead those who flooded the game with resources, BODs, Library collectibles or deterred many players away from PvP for using scripts and hacks get away with it.....

It should have been the other way around, IMHO, go FIRST after those scripters and hackers and send a message to players with them and THEN, perhaps deal with the unattended skill macroers.

Instead, are we perhaps going to see skill macroers get banned and scripters and hackers only get a warning ?

Makes no sense whatsoever to me as it keeps in the game those who hurt it the most and rids the game of those who hurt it the least.

Go figure......
 

Wenchkin

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Popps, none of us can say with accuracy who is being banned for what, so why are you complaining about the priorities of the GMs when you can't say with accuracy what they are right now?

That doesn't make sense to me.

Wenchy
 

chester rockwell

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ALRIGHT HERE IT IS. MANY FRIENDS AND FOES OF MINE HAVE BEEN BANNED FOR USING CHEAT ENGINE IN FACT THE ONE GUY TOLD ME HE WAS PULLED INTO THE JAIL AND THE EA REPRESENTIVE SAID THAT THEY COULDNT BELIEVE HOW MANY PEOPLE HE BANNED FOR USING PROGRAMS. AND YES I KNOW THE PEOPLE THAT GOT BANNED MID FIGHT. THESE BANNINGS ARE PERMA.

I KILLED 3 BLUES MAGES VS MY ONE ARCHER SO YOU TRAMMIES CRYING HACKS STILL SUCK. AND ID LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR ALL THAT COMPLAINED ABOUT CHEATS CAUSE YOUR TO DUMB TO REALIZE THAT IT AFFECTS EVERYONE. 1) LESS PEOPLE ON THE SHARD TO PLAY WITH/AGAINST 2)OVERALL NUMBER OF SUBSCRIPTIONS THAT UO HAS.THANKS FOR HITTING THE TURBO ON UO WAY TO GETTING THE PLUG PULLED FOR LOW SUBSCRIPTIONS.
*tombstone quote*
...well...bye...
 
B

Babble

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ALRIGHT HERE IT IS. MANY FRIENDS AND FOES OF MINE HAVE BEEN BANNED FOR USING CHEAT ENGINE IN FACT THE ONE GUY TOLD ME HE WAS PULLED INTO THE JAIL AND THE EA REPRESENTIVE SAID THAT THEY COULDNT BELIEVE HOW MANY PEOPLE HE BANNED FOR USING PROGRAMS. AND YES I KNOW THE PEOPLE THAT GOT BANNED MID FIGHT. THESE BANNINGS ARE PERMA.
Sounds like some pvpers less. I mean if you ban 5 out of 10 pvpers then it sounds like a lot, but really are not many.
I doubt EA also pulls so many players into jail as I doubt there are a lot of GMs about.
:p
 

Taylor

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ALRIGHT HERE IT IS. MANY FRIENDS AND FOES OF MINE HAVE BEEN BANNED FOR USING CHEAT ENGINE IN FACT THE ONE GUY TOLD ME HE WAS PULLED INTO THE JAIL AND THE EA REPRESENTIVE SAID THAT THEY COULDNT BELIEVE HOW MANY PEOPLE HE BANNED FOR USING PROGRAMS. AND YES I KNOW THE PEOPLE THAT GOT BANNED MID FIGHT. THESE BANNINGS ARE PERMA.
Sounds like some pvpers less. I mean if you ban 5 out of 10 pvpers then it sounds like a lot, but really are not many.
I doubt EA also pulls so many players into jail as I doubt there are a lot of GMs about.
:p
I also doubt that EA is likely to sink their own game. I can't say for certain, but I suspect that EA has a better grasp on their subscriber numbers than Tyr.
 
S

Sweety

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My brother got banned 2 weeks ago for unattended macroing while using 3rd party program. Was only a 48 hr ban but was enough to make him stop doing it.
Though i think the gm said something like you can use the program but you have to be at your keyboard the entire time.
 

Omnius

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Honestly, as much as I would appreciate action against cheaters, this sounds like it is a very strong exaggeration.
First, I very much doubt that EA would ban half a guild at exactly the same time. Second, EA cannot ban ICQ, because ICQ is run by a different company and has nothing to do with UO whatsoever. Third, I believe the statement "The Bans are happening in droves!" just as much as the statement "The doom of UO is near, EA is shutting down the game". Fourth, EA doesn't ban people without a warning. If I remember correctly, Cal even stated that those who are caught using illegal apps will receive a warning and further action will be taken if they are caught again.
Sorry I had meant to say that their icq messages were all "perma banned" or some variation of that.
 

Taylor

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YOU ALL JUST GOT SERVED
Are you for real? Still can't tell if you're earnest or trolling. Cause it's hilarious when read as a troll. lol

If it's earnest, I respect your opinion--I just disagree with your analysis.
 

chester rockwell

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your analysis is so off. uo was here before you, it will be here after you. if they ban 100 accounts on atl, i dont think it will even register as a blip.
ur a small fish in a big pond....and if you are fishin for compliments on your feelings/thoughts/beliefs, well, ur in the wrong pond.
 

Taylor

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He's not Paps--he's just an emmy. Paps uses punctuation. ;)
 
B

Budwieser

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And I would expect better from a mod.... man.

Truth is I was only half assed at best against speed hacks etc. So I stopped. Could care less about PvP until EA/Mythic put a stop to it. When of IF they ever finally stop the junk then I will PvP right along with the rest of the legal folks. I don't play cards with a cheat, because you only win IF you get very lucky. Same applies to PvP.
The truth is this mod does pvp and without cheats. I know personally from being in his guild and vent on a certain shard.

And you all should care about pvp. It's a bigger % of UO clients than you think. Ban all their accounts and UO will be very empty and lose alot of revenue. You think customer service is bad now?? lol. How about EA figure a way to stop the programs from working with the client instead of losing revenue that I'm sure EA can't afford to lose by perma banning alot of these accounts.

People on stratics are getting excited about all THE BANS, think befor you speak. TONS OF BANS = lost revenue = worse service for those that are left.

If these bans happened during mid battle during pvp it was probably the targeting script being used. It's easy to detect simply by monitoring their party chat.

I'm glad EA is taking steps to stop cheating, I just hope it's done not to harm them in the future.

The Bud
 
C

CatLord

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Imagine a shard...

PVP Population: 50 (max)
Non-PVP Population: 460 (at least, those are the ones in my icq list)

Banning 20% of the pvp cheaters... 10 (max)

Total population remaining widely unaffected
Game improves because pvp gets to be more balanced

I say keep up with it...
 
G

Going Going Gone

Guest
This can't be!

I feel like a kid that is waking up the morning of christmas and finding under the tree the little puppy he has always dreamed of!

Well I will wait confirmation of all this, but, for players saying that this is the end of UO, I say no. I personally am reopening two 7+ year accounts as soon as there is an announcement.

As for the players trying to measure the "degree" of cheating, I say LOL! Everyone knows that 3rd party programs (other than uomap and uoassit) are prohibited. You used it for training item identification? TUFF LUCK! IT WAS NOT ALLOWED AND YOU CHEATED WHEN YOU DECIDED NOT TO DO IT MANUALLY! I am ok with whatever consequence EA choses to apply, especially that what is the most important is to make the cheating stop.

And I really want to lol at a few thing that I heard for YEARS:

-"x speedhack program" does nothing that I wouldn't have overclocking my cpu

Why didn't you overclock your cpu then? LOL!

-I would be dominant even without using "x speedhack program". Or "x speedhack program" doesn't really give an advantage.

Why use that illegal speedhack program then? LOL!

-It's ok if I use X macroing program to train my skills, anyway the enhanced program has a built in macroing system.

Why not use the EC when training then?

-there are so many other players using theses illegal program, if they ban them EA is bound to shut down.

Well lets see it this way: in 2003 (the year I started to play!) there were 250000 suscribers. Since thoses days, it is pretty clear that the population is not higher than 150000 (including 70000 in Japan). In my opinion, the possibilities of the game and the multiple quality updates with new content should have brought an an increase of the subscribers and not a 100000+ decrease.

Imo, far from killing the game, the banning of the punks, the cheaters, s who bullied and greifed the community , is the remedy to THE CANCER affecting UO. It might just be what stops the graph line from reaching 0!
 
R

ReaperNI

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Caps lock and bad no punctuation. Cruise control for cool.....Let me fix that for you.


As I stated earlier, person of questionable intelligence, try working on a Despise spawn and I will quickly show up and prove to you that my account is not banned. Wow, not only do the younger generation have a lack of skills but their reading comprehension is rather poor as well.
LMAO thats actully preety funny. it just seems that these people dont get it. these bans are not a good thing. tons of people play other games and come back to uo for the pvp. page a gm and see how many gms you actully have come and help you out like when i played 12 years ago (uo was here before me :)


I love the fact the they have not address my points on vendors searchs , low subscriptions, ea massive lay offs.
and to syrus IM NOT A TROLL IM A NIGHT ELF MOEHAWK FOOL LMAO

and nonsense aside i think these banning will greatly hurt not that i am pro banning or anti banning but i am pro uo. and if acepting a certain evil that really doesnt affect us all that much is the way to keep things going then so be it.

How can we appreciate light without darkness?????????
 

ohmyGED

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".....I see banned people..."

I know of some people that have been banned for undisclosed reasons.....and in light of this post....I think the ban hammer is finally coming down. At least it is not at me.


For those who got banned or know people that got banned because they were using third party applications that were not approved by EA/UO: Good. Get the hell out of here. We don't need or want you around here.

For those who are claiming they were "wrongfully" banned: I don't beleive you. Don't try to plead your case when you know the truth already. And believe me --- you do not get banned without proper justification. Take it from someone who knows how to manipulate the game (not exploit) and run with it.

For those talking about the PvP discussion: You'll see me play this aspect again. Now players can't use cheaters as a scapegoat based on one's ability to PvP. If I plain suck PvP, I just plain suck at PvP.....which is probably inevitable since i've been out of it for so long.

For those who try to continue to use third party applications to gain a competitive advantage against other who play legitimently: Hope you get caught

For those who think that this is going to hurt UO: You need to re-think this. This brings back legitmacy to the game; this should have been done YEARS ago, and i'm glad that it is finally happening. All this means, if you can put two and two together, between the booster packs, and the bannings, that UO is continuing to prosper...

For those who thought I should have been banned and surprised that I'm not: You suck. :D As a matter of fact, I play this game without illegal applications.
 

Taylor

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BLAH BLAH BLAH I GOT BANNED?????
Don't even try to pull a "others do it". If there is 5 cars speeding on the highway and only one police patrol is there, do you think that the owner of the car intercepted will not have his ticket because others did it?

But meh! Burnt! Good ****ing riddance!:thumbup1:
To clarify, Tyr said that he doesn't use the programs and hasn't been banned. His argument is that these actions are thinning the PvP scene. I disagree, because I think that this will encourage greater participation in PvP--e.g., Oblivion's statement above. However, he never claimed to be banned or argued that cheating was to be encouraged.
 

Picus at the office

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I don't care about the scriptors but I do care greatly about the speeders. I shall wait and see what and who falls but I'd love to see all the blippy people go bye-bye on my main shard.
 

NB-Cats

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Good lord, Look at yourself, your foaming at the mouth, Press the cap lock button, have a real conversation instead of the typical mentally ill PVP child that this game has become to hate So much (YO IMA GONNA ROCK YOUR L33T WoLRD YO!)

I mean as a "guild leader" you would of thought that you would have brought more to the table than a unstable 4th grade rant. If I was with "NI" i would be jumping ship before it sinks....

His post might not be the most coherent one (and it's on caps lock) but he brings up some VERY valid points...
 

popps

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Popps, none of us can say with accuracy who is being banned for what, so why are you complaining about the priorities of the GMs when you can't say with accuracy what they are right now?

That doesn't make sense to me.

Wenchy


True, still if those banned so far are only people who were training skills unattended that surprises me to say the least since scripting and hacking to my point of view have hurt the game way more than unattended skill macroing.
 
G

Going Going Gone

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His post might not be the most coherent one (and it's on caps lock) but he brings up some VERY valid points...
Goose, I do understand your concerns. N obody likes to be the GM of a 2 player guild!

LOL
 
J

[JD]

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Until I see a post from "Cal", or some other UO representative giving #s of bannings/jailings/warnings I'm not believing this is going on. Players have been known to post BS before just to stir up controversy. Without the names of the players/guilds involved, we can't verify. And to supply them would be against the terms.

So, Cal, or anyone at UO - give us some #s of your actions. Just the data. No names.

How many scripters were banned on server x?
How many jailed?
How many suspended?

You claim you're taking action? Prove it, let's see the #'s from your spreadsheet
 

NB-Cats

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NB-Cats

Just to make sure, your in game name is Goose and you have been the GM of the PVP guild named SX wich changed later for VIP, right?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAA! You must feel very alone today.

Yah, UO is doomed if they ban all the cheater.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!

P.S.: Good ****ing riddance!
Correct on name. Correct on SX. VIP was a different guild when most of the players in SX quit UO.

I don't know who you are but I will gladly reactivate my account tonight, transfer to whatever shard you are on, take off all my armor except my clothing (and jewelry), let you page a GM before the fight starts and beat you repeatedly until you get a canned response that nothing will happen to me.

Are you up for the challenge?

Pray that this is not happening... because I may just come back to set the east coast back in their place.
 

NB-Cats

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For those who got banned or know people that got banned because they were using third party applications that were not approved by EA/UO: Good. Get the hell out of here. We don't need or want you around here.
Agreed. What about the players that use search engine websites that detail vendor holdings? Are they cheaters as well?

For those who are claiming they were "wrongfully" banned: I don't beleive you. Don't try to plead your case when you know the truth already. And believe me --- you do not get banned without proper justification. Take it from someone who knows how to manipulate the game (not exploit) and run with it.

For those talking about the PvP discussion: You'll see me play this aspect again. Now players can't use cheaters as a scapegoat based on one's ability to PvP. If I plain suck PvP, I just plain suck at PvP.....which is probably inevitable since i've been out of it for so long.

For those who try to continue to use third party applications to gain a competitive advantage against other who play legitimently: Hope you get caught
Agreed.

For those who think that this is going to hurt UO: You need to re-think this. This brings back legitmacy to the game; this should have been done YEARS ago, and i'm glad that it is finally happening. All this means, if you can put two and two together, between the booster packs, and the bannings, that UO is continuing to prosper...
Booster packs are just another way for them to increase their revenues. Instead of 1 expansion every 18 months, they're going to split it into 3 phases (2 booster packs and 1 expansion) and charge us 2-3x the price they would normally have.

They are struggling.
Tons of EA employees get laid off.
They are not bad developpers but they are understaffed.
The game is dying, I've seen so many account up for sale lately it's actually quite alarming. UO stands today most likely due to it's LOW FIXED COST and thanks to a select group of die hard players (most likely on welfare, jk).
 

popps

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I also doubt that EA is likely to sink their own game. I can't say for certain, but I suspect that EA has a better grasp on their subscriber numbers than Tyr.

Well, who knows....

I mean, let's look at the issue from a different perspective that goes beyond Ultima Online, shall we ?

Personally, when I look at games I want to play, particularly if they are online multiplayer, besides the game itself and its contents, I also look at who is making it and who is publishing it.

Now, say that for example I do not like playing games where other players can cheat, when I look around for games to play I will also try to inform myself before spending my money of how previous games from that publisher have been handled in regards to the issues that I am concerned about.

I can well see a game that looks great and has great and appealing content but if that game I fear will have room for players cheating or exploiting in it I might well stay away from it no matter how much I'd want to play it. Especially, if it is a game with PvP content. There is nothing more that I hate than playing player versus player in a multiplayer game against others who use cheats as an advantage.

What I am trying to say, is that perhaps stopping cheating in UO may be important not just for UO itself but also for future sales of other games.

Personally, for example, I am looking at UO as a test bed for my future purchases since I really do not enjoy playing games with other players cheating in the game I play and should UO not see cheating addressed, I would probably look elsewhere for my future game purchases.

Maybe I am wrong in my thinking, but I think that perhaps having a good reputation can help in sales, sometimes, and therefore make it worth it a hard fight against cheating regardless and beyond the game that is interested by that fight.

Just a thought.....
 

NB-Cats

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Very good point popps.

UO will no longer get new players, only returning ones.

The game is not appealing to new players.
 

popps

Always Present
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your analysis is so off. uo was here before you, it will be here after you. if they ban 100 accounts on atl, i dont think it will even register as a blip.
ur a small fish in a big pond....and if you are fishin for compliments on your feelings/thoughts/beliefs, well, ur in the wrong pond.

Account bans can be done over time.

Accounts found cheating do not need to be banned all at once but they can be dealt with slowly, when new accounts from new or returning players start showing up again.

Ban a few now, wait a week or two, get some returning players start up their account, ban a few more, wait for more returning players to open up accounts and ban a few more again and so on....

A little at a time as players start returning to the game because the news that UO can be played cheat free, now, has spread....

Perhaps doing it this way could be feasible and sustainable by UO to stay up and running ?
 
A

A Bad Player

Guest
I would still love to know if like someone said "detection of our certain favorite script program is working fine so they ban on those," why do all these 24/7 script miners go unnoticed? Why did jtw get pulled in jail, while I was apparently allowed to keep macroing without warning so they could "collect data" on how much I do it over a month? Honestly I probably looped something about 4 times for about 5 hours a time over the last month or two. Why do some people get pulled and jailed, while others are being ALLOWED to do it PURELY so they can get the Perma hammer when its said and done? Seems like selective enforcement to me.
 

popps

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Though i think the gm said something like you can use the program but you have to be at your keyboard the entire time.

Am I the only one who has a problem with this ?

I mean, the use of scripts in PvP can be a problem as many have reported.

Now, PvP is attended so does the above mean that for Game Masters scripting in PvP is fine ?

And scripts can provide unfair advantages also outside of PvP like with selective looting scripts or BODs scripts and in some cases also for resource gathering.

I think that if a third party program is not legal to use because not approved (UOAssist had to be reviewed to receive approval and there have been functionalities left out to receive approval), then whether one is at the keyboard or not the use of that unapproved third party application should be a no-no.

Can anyone else please confirm that they received official word in either an e-mail or from a Game Master that using unapproved third party utilities is fine as long as the player is at the keyboard ?

If this is the case, this is something I do not like.
 
G

Going Going Gone

Guest
What is even more funny is that if they ban exclusively the accounts that use illegal programs often, this should result in 0 decrease of the UO community. In fact, from what I have seen, the big big scripters and cheaters:

1. Are often in their guilds since years with persons that are like them.
2. Are often addicted to this game and especially to the need to be the best at it.

Not saying that this particular player cheats, but i think it's a good example for point #2:

I don't know who you are but I will gladly reactivate my account tonight, transfer to whatever shard you are on, take off all my armor except my clothing (and jewelry), let you page a GM before the fight starts and beat you repeatedly until you get a canned response that nothing will happen to me.

Are you up for the challenge?
 
R

ReaperNI

Guest
heres a bit a food for thought.

Most hard core pvpers make it look like they have god mode turned on because they are that good.Trammie guilds will never be as good as pvpers out there fighting each and ever day.therefore claims of cheats when your guild gets run over 30 v 5. unskilled pvpers using desprate cheats (medic/box macros/ script readers (bolas)) are easily defeated (double up mortals/para spams/fake text to say your swinging a bola).

Just a couple questions

How many of you cried during the ranger abyss quest when you couldnt complete the quest because you didnt buy the expansion of the game you are a die hard fan of?

How many of you typed in cheat codes for megaman?


And nice try there going going gone for editing my text in a quote and then trying to say i said " blah blah blah i got banned" resorting to false claims is a sign you are out of ammo.

Thank you for all those that can look past the short term of horay the hackers are gone and see past to how this is going to affect game play and game surviabilty.

As for JD i have personal knowlege of a friends main account being hit perma banned not sure for what. called in to get the account back and didnt work. and another friend was caught brought to jail and warned in game for using cheat engine.
 
A

A Rev

Guest
Happy days!

Now i know for FACT that at least 7 people banned in the last 24hours use more than just the unnamed programme.

I also know that the majority of those havent used said programme for a good couple of months (all maxed out chars)

My theory is that the ban message is a generic response. My theory is they havent yet made different responses to the different programmes.

However, maybe this is just the first wave...maybe this is to rid the unnamed then they rid the rest.

*Crosses Fingers*
 
G

Gellor

Guest
I've played almost non-stop since 98, so I've seen all their bans and know that they had a high rate of innocent bans. I wouldn't doubt they have a lot of innocents banned this time around.

The problem I see with the bans is this:
They will ban 500 accounts and not get even close to that number in return... no new players and few returning players.

They have no method of attracting new players... poor graphics in EC and clean but outdated graphics in classic aren't going to attract players. Without a reasonable graphics setup, they can't make a shelved product to attract the casual gamer. The content is great. The lack of fixing their bugs in a timely manner sucks.

I know people are claiming that will all the cheaters getting removed, people will return in droves. I don't buy that. I doubt that EA will see a return of 1 account for every 10 they ban. Old players remember the pain of working skills, farming items, etc. If they have been out of the game for a significant time, they are basically starting at square one because their template will be basically unplayable.

Personally, I closed my last two account about 4 months ago because of the direction UO was going along with the lack of ability to debug their product in a timely manner. I hadn't seriously played for 4 months before that. I PvP'd and while I didn't like the cheaters, it was still fun. Even with the cheaters banned, I have no desire to return.
 

NB-Cats

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What is even more funny is that if they ban exclusively the accounts that use illegal programs often, this should result in 0 decrease of the UO community. In fact, from what I have seen, the big big scripters and cheaters:

1. Are often in their guilds since years with persons that are like them.
2. Are often addicted to this game and especially to the need to be the best at it.

Not saying that this particular player cheats, but i think it's a good example for point #2:
Fingers,

I have not played this game much at all for the last year. My accounts have been deactivated for most of the year as well . I have an interest in the game which is the only reason why I keep reading these boards. I hardly qualify that as an addiction.

This said, I've had my fair share of UO addiction when I was younger.

As for my competitiveness, you're absolutely right. I like to do well in everything I do. I hardly consider this a problem.
 

Cetric

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Seems strange that some people go months/years without being pulled to jail, or getting short bans, 24hours, 72, etc. and suddenly get a permaban, and other people are pulled to jail and getting 24 hour slaps on the wrist for doing the same thing...
 

NB-Cats

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I hope they stop scripting...

that's where the majority of the players (pvpers and trammies) will get hurt the most (mostly trammies working skills in my opinion).

Whats everyone stance on the players who use search engine websites to find their items?

Are they indirectly cheating? I sure hope we find a way to get rid of those to!
 
L

Lord Velner

Guest
Unfortunately, in this situation, I have to disagree with automatic permanent bans. Two main considerations come to mind in drawing this conclusions.

The main concern is that people are going to get banned without actual, proper notice. As a result of EA/Mythic's policies over the past several years, macroing has become more and more acceptable just based on enforcement, or more properly, a lack of enforcement. A player who comes to Ultima Online can fairly quickly come to the realization that there are certain third party programs that are easily available and widely used with impunity. If EA/Mythic is actually going to become serious about enforcing the Terms of Service, which I think is a proper move, it should be done by first giving actual warning to those who have been macroing for years without incident. Whether right or wrong, a lot of players have a reasonable expectation that marcroing is acceptable based on common practice.

Another major concern is that actually banning all macroing players will result in some level of player loss. Some people have narrowly construed this as only applying to PVP. Although PvP is unusually susceptible to cheating, probably because it's almost required to be competative, it is certainly not the only forum in which cheating is used. Even a small dropoff of players would be a bad thing for a game that is already in decline and long passed its prime. This argument is not to say cheating should be allowed, I merely present this point to highlight that the EA/Mythic should not simply begin banning without actual warning. Actual knowledge would probably be sufficient to put a stop to a major portion of the scripting out there without losing as much of the population.

Macroing, scripting, and cheating is definitely a problem that needs to be addressed. However, EA/Mythic's enforcement policies over the years have made cheating essentially de facto acceptable. If enforcement is going to actually be stepped up, it needs to be done by first giving actual warning to individuals for cheating so as to balance the reasonable expectation that macroing is allowed.
 

NB-Cats

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I'm going to give a slightly different perspective on why I don't think eliminating cheating in PvP will kill membership in UO. The reason I believe this is because I agree with what some of the PvPers have said, that the elite PvPers do not need hacks or scripts to kill 98% of the other folks in UO. I've fought with and against some of the best, and I while I'm decent and can hold my own in most situations, I do know real skill when I see it. The simple fact is that these really elite people do not need cheats of any kind to kill someone like me (and I want to point out again, I'm pretty good).

But the fact remains that there are people that do cheat, whether through using speedhacks or one of the scripting programs (I guess I'm not supposed to mention any by name), or some sort of client modifier (like the UO Assist substitute). I think that they cheat in order to compete with the other elite PvPers, but I totally agree that they don't need their cheats to kill the vast majority of people in the game.

Now, if UO were to successfully eliminate such cheats, I think a lot of those people would remain in the game, and still be among the top PvPers without cheats. Maybe I'm just optimistic, but that's the virtual world I'd like to see. Where, after a fight people didn't rant on-and-on about you cheat, you speed, you script, etc. I don't believe that these people will necessarily quit UO because they can't cheat. If the word gets out that cheaters will be banned, I think they'll stick around and find a way to be elite with cheating.

Now script resource gathering...I do wish they'd do something about that but it looks like they haven't yet.
DING DING DING,

we got a smart player here.
 

NB-Cats

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Unfortunately, in this situation, I have to disagree with automatic permanent bans. Two main considerations come to mind in drawing this conclusions.

The main concern is that people are going to get banned without actual, proper notice. As a result of EA/Mythic's policies over the past several years, macroing has become more and more acceptable just based on enforcement, or more properly, a lack of enforcement. A player who comes to Ultima Online can fairly quickly come to the realization that there are certain third party programs that are easily available and widely used with impunity. If EA/Mythic is actually going to become serious about enforcing the Terms of Service, which I think is a proper move, it should be done by first giving actual warning to those who have been macroing for years without incident. Whether right or wrong, a lot of players have a reasonable expectation that marcroing is acceptable based on common practice.

Another major concern is that actually banning all macroing players will result in some level of player loss. Some people have narrowly construed this as only applying to PVP. Although PvP is unusually susceptible to cheating, probably because it's almost required to be competative, it is certainly not the only forum in which cheating is used. Even a small dropoff of players would be a bad thing for a game that is already in decline and long passed its prime. This argument is not to say cheating should be allowed, I merely present this point to highlight that the EA/Mythic should not simply begin banning without actual warning. Actual knowledge would probably be sufficient to put a stop to a major portion of the scripting out there without losing as much of the population.

Macroing, scripting, and cheating is definitely a problem that needs to be addressed. However, EA/Mythic's enforcement policies over the years have made cheating essentially de facto acceptable. If enforcement is going to actually be stepped up, it needs to be done by first giving actual warning to individuals for cheating so as to balance the reasonable expectation that macroing is allowed.
I'm honestly baffled by how many players actually think like me. Years ago I would have had players like Going going gone all over me for saying things like this.

Looks like the UO population matured.
 
N

Nastia Cross

Guest
Permanently banning players, for whatever the reason, is not going to change the fact that people will continue to cheat, just like people will continue to drive over the speed limit.

The answer EA should be giving us is eliminating the programs altogether. By that I mean making it so that they will no longer work and also learning how the players are using them and possibly encorporating increased functionality in both clients.

Increased policing presence does not entirely solve a problem. Prevention is always called for in situation such as these.
 

Cetric

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Unfortunately, in this situation, I have to disagree with automatic permanent bans. Two main considerations come to mind in drawing this conclusions.

The main concern is that people are going to get banned without actual, proper notice. As a result of EA/Mythic's policies over the past several years, macroing has become more and more acceptable just based on enforcement, or more properly, a lack of enforcement. A player who comes to Ultima Online can fairly quickly come to the realization that there are certain third party programs that are easily available and widely used with impunity. If EA/Mythic is actually going to become serious about enforcing the Terms of Service, which I think is a proper move, it should be done by first giving actual warning to those who have been macroing for years without incident. Whether right or wrong, a lot of players have a reasonable expectation that marcroing is acceptable based on common practice.

Another major concern is that actually banning all macroing players will result in some level of player loss. Some people have narrowly construed this as only applying to PVP. Although PvP is unusually susceptible to cheating, probably because it's almost required to be competative, it is certainly not the only forum in which cheating is used. Even a small dropoff of players would be a bad thing for a game that is already in decline and long passed its prime. This argument is not to say cheating should be allowed, I merely present this point to highlight that the EA/Mythic should not simply begin banning without actual warning. Actual knowledge would probably be sufficient to put a stop to a major portion of the scripting out there without losing as much of the population.

Macroing, scripting, and cheating is definitely a problem that needs to be addressed. However, EA/Mythic's enforcement policies over the years have made cheating essentially de facto acceptable. If enforcement is going to actually be stepped up, it needs to be done by first giving actual warning to individuals for cheating so as to balance the reasonable expectation that macroing is allowed.
Well said sir, well said.
 
G

Going Going Gone

Guest
Whether right or wrong, a lot of players have a reasonable expectation that marcroing is acceptable based on common practice.
LOL! Looks like they were wrong!

And, if they thought that the use of a third party program for, lets say macro a skill afk, was acceptable based on common practice, why would they do it, almost always, hidden in their house rather than in a public area?
 

Cetric

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Its like steroids in baseball:


It went years unnoticed, so more and more people began to use them to be more competitive. and then it was cracked down on, people were taken action against, and the overall useage dropped off the charts. Those people did have some sort of warning though, not everyone that plays uo has. sure you and i, the board readers, have had warning. But i know people that don't read this forum, people that only visit the uo herald if they need to check something. They really do need a better system to keep the population updated, heck, even a newsletter that actually was emailed to subscribers, instead of these phantom emails we supposedly receive.
 

NB-Cats

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
If bannings really are happening in the masses, they should be banning for the use of unapproved 3rd party programs.

While unattended macroing is illegal (even without a 3rd party app) it is not detectable unless a GM verifies it.
 

Orgional Farimir

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I would like to see the email that I am sure EA sent out when they banned someone.

Until I see an e-mail from EA I am calling BS.
 
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