Terror in a Can. AKA Why I just killed you in Despise

[Flutter]

On July 24 2002 Publish 16 was released in Ultima Online.
It contained many changes, one of the most notible was there "Terror in a Can" or "Champ Spawns"

Surprisingly today many of our players here on Catskills do not realize that this was purposefully put into UO to keep non-consensual pvp alive. (References to direct quote later)

It was not intended that people ever be able to freely go to Felucca without risk to kill monsters.
When someone asks me "Why did you kill me" after I raid their spawn I actually want to send them to this link:

ORIGIN - Ultima Online - Main

Now, quite a few of the semantics have changed over the years, since the game has been tweaked.
The original intent has not changed though, (bolded by myself):

Intent
As a brief preface, we’d like to explain the essential goals of the changes listed in this document.
The below changes should…

1. Establish an area where non-consensual pvp can thrive for a significant number of UO’s players.
2. Create a risk versus reward model that encourages non-consensual pvp based around resource control rather than profit from the deceased.
3. Provide meaningful and compelling rewards for players that successfully adventure in the specified areas.

Let's break down what this means.
1. An area was created specifically to keep pvp fun for most if not all of UO's Fel based pvpers
(This area was not created for people who do not wish to pvp... hence the second point.)
2. It was specifically made to encourage non-consensual pvp (That means PKs) around a specific resource (powerscrolls). (This was done so that PvPers have a reason to fight, hence the third point.)
3. They specifically made the rewards worth fighting for. (and have ever since)

So if someone raids your spawn it does not mean they are mean, bad people.
They are playing the game as it was intended and want to continue to do so.

You do not have to go to fel to get scrolls.(See reference quote below) Everything works as it is intended. No one is a bad guy for playing this game as it was intended.
At the bottom of the link above there is a Q/A

Why do I have to fight PKs to get the good stuff?
These items will be sold in Trammel, so people who do not wish to risk being killed can buy them from other players. Since players cannot use these scrolls cumulatively, and cannot use any scrolls lower than one they’ve already used, not all scrolls found will be usable by the person who found them, and will undoubtedly be sold.

If you do not wish to be PK'd and you do not wish to buy your scrolls what can you do?
Easy. Join a guild that actively PvPs. Learn the ropes. Ask questions. Don't get all mad and talk a bunch of **** to them. It's quite silly to get angry over an online game. Instead choose perhaps to learn from them.


Everything is working as intended. Anyone who tells you differently is just trying to cause drama. Don't fall into that trap.

 

[kelmo]

You look good on that soap box...

 

[Flutter]

You look good on that soap box...

:smooch

 

[Nastia Cross]

YAY! Best forum post EVER! *hands Flutter an Academy Award*

Seriously though, all of that is true. If you don't like it, stay in Trammel. The end.

 

[Zuckuss]

100% true and a legitimate, strong argument for the purpose of answering the question, "why did you kill me?".

Still, the grand thing about UO is that the players are given the choice to make their own rules, such as to opt to not attack or raid random individuals who operate a champ spawn or perform some other felucca activity unless such individuals have agressed upon him/her or his/her clan first, or even help, teach and defend those who are choosing to enjoy the felucca side of the game.

Some other answers might be:

You raided us the this morning.
I thought you were someone else.
My EV accidently attacked you.
You came too close to our withers.

I am very much in favor of the old feluccan system of risk vs. reward, the game was designed this way, just like it says in the OP, but we still have the choice as to whether or not we want to fill the roll of those who those who kill the less equiped.

There is another type of PK'er out there. That plays the game for pvp. They don't consider killing someone weaker than them a victory. They select those that they attack based on creating actual skilled pvp action. For them, it's only about pvp interaction, not powerscrolls or money.

Interesting topic to discuss...

 

[Flutter]

I'm pretty sure we can agree that if someone is weak or ill-equipped we shouldn't be encouraging them to play in Felucca at all.

 

[Giggles]

I just finished my last red bull

 

[kelmo]

I just finished my last red bull

eww... speaking of "terror in a can".

 

[outcry]

On July 24 2002 Publish 16 was released in Ultima Online.
It contained many changes, one of the most notible was there "Terror in a Can" or "Champ Spawns"

Surprisingly today many of our players here on Catskills do not realize that this was purposefully put into UO to keep non-consensual pvp alive. (References to direct quote later)

It was not intended that people ever be able to freely go to Felucca without risk to kill monsters.
When someone asks me "Why did you kill me" after I raid their spawn I actually want to send them to this link:

ORIGIN - Ultima Online - Main

Now, quite a few of the semantics have changed over the years, since the game has been tweaked.
The original intent has not changed though, (bolded by myself):

Intent
As a brief preface, we’d like to explain the essential goals of the changes listed in this document.
The below changes should…

1. Establish an area where non-consensual pvp can thrive for a significant number of UO’s players.
2. Create a risk versus reward model that encourages non-consensual pvp based around resource control rather than profit from the deceased.
3. Provide meaningful and compelling rewards for players that successfully adventure in the specified areas.

Let's break down what this means.
1. An area was created specifically to keep pvp fun for most if not all of UO's Fel based pvpers
(This area was not created for people who do not wish to pvp... hence the second point.)
2. It was specifically made to encourage non-consensual pvp (That means PKs) around a specific resource (powerscrolls). (This was done so that PvPers have a reason to fight, hence the third point.)
3. They specifically made the rewards worth fighting for. (and have ever since)

So if someone raids your spawn it does not mean they are mean, bad people.
They are playing the game as it was intended and want to continue to do so.

You do not have to go to fel to get scrolls.(See reference quote below) Everything works as it is intended. No one is a bad guy for playing this game as it was intended.
At the bottom of the link above there is a Q/A

Why do I have to fight PKs to get the good stuff?
These items will be sold in Trammel, so people who do not wish to risk being killed can buy them from other players. Since players cannot use these scrolls cumulatively, and cannot use any scrolls lower than one they’ve already used, not all scrolls found will be usable by the person who found them, and will undoubtedly be sold.

If you do not wish to be PK'd and you do not wish to buy your scrolls what can you do?
Easy. Join a guild that actively PvPs. Learn the ropes. Ask questions. Don't get all mad and talk a bunch of **** to them. It's quite silly to get angry over an online game. Instead choose perhaps to learn from them.


Everything is working as intended. Anyone who tells you differently is just trying to cause drama. Don't fall into that trap.

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

 

[Giggles]

eww... speaking of "terror in a can".

 

[Vlaude]

Some of the most fun I've had in UO was at spawn raids and harrowers. If you've decided to venture into fel to do a champ spawn, be ready to fight, that's how it's always been. I'll never forget some of the battles I've had with Fuddrucker and Goose at t2a champ spawns back in the day. Plus if you are able to kill and stop the spawn crashers it makes the scrolls you earn that much sweeter.

 

[Victoria Navarre]

I'm pretty sure we can agree that if someone is weak or ill-equipped we shouldn't be encouraging them to play in Felucca at all.

As long as there is 2x the resources in Fel I'll be coming there with my mule(non fighter) to mine and lumberjack all sneaky like.

 

[Flutter]

As long as there is 2x the resources in Fel I'll be coming there with my mule(non fighter) to mine and lumberjack all sneaky like.

*shakes angry fist*
I'll get you Victoria!!! And you're little dog too!!!

 

[Victoria Navarre]

*shakes angry fist*
I'll get you Victoria!!! And you're little dog too!!!

 

[Flutter]

LoLz

 

[Zosimus]

No way anybody could PK that dog. Its to cute lol

 

[Norrar]

On July 24 2002 Publish 16 was released in Ultima Online.
It contained many changes, one of the most notible was there "Terror in a Can" or "Champ Spawns"

Surprisingly today many of our players here on Catskills do not realize that this was purposefully put into UO to keep non-consensual pvp alive. (References to direct quote later)

It was not intended that people ever be able to freely go to Felucca without risk to kill monsters.
When someone asks me "Why did you kill me" after I raid their spawn I actually want to send them to this link:

ORIGIN - Ultima Online - Main

Now, quite a few of the semantics have changed over the years, since the game has been tweaked.
The original intent has not changed though, (bolded by myself):



Let's break down what this means.
1. An area was created specifically to keep pvp fun for most if not all of UO's Fel based pvpers
(This area was not created for people who do not wish to pvp... hence the second point.)
2. It was specifically made to encourage non-consensual pvp (That means PKs) around a specific resource (powerscrolls). (This was done so that PvPers have a reason to fight, hence the third point.)
3. They specifically made the rewards worth fighting for. (and have ever since)

So if someone raids your spawn it does not mean they are mean, bad people.
They are playing the game as it was intended and want to continue to do so.

You do not have to go to fel to get scrolls.(See reference quote below) Everything works as it is intended. No one is a bad guy for playing this game as it was intended.
At the bottom of the link above there is a Q/A


If you do not wish to be PK'd and you do not wish to buy your scrolls what can you do?
Easy. Join a guild that actively PvPs. Learn the ropes. Ask questions. Don't get all mad and talk a bunch of **** to them. It's quite silly to get angry over an online game. Instead choose perhaps to learn from them.


Everything is working as intended. Anyone who tells you differently is just trying to cause drama. Don't fall into that trap.

I wantz to learn this pk business of which you speak. Teach me or I will rage on the forums that you won't be my friend.

 

[Aedon Durreah]

So Cute!!

 

[NBG]

I dare you to kill this in fel !!!!!

 

[Flutter]

I dare you to kill this in fel !!!!!

When there is bunny crap in your coffee cup don't come crying to me!

 

[DPudding]

This thread is lacking in fanfic. I am disappoint!!!!!!!!!

 

[Scarst]

This thread is lacking in fanfic. I am disappoint!!!!!!!!!

We could write a really trashy short one for you if you'd like.

 

[They Call Me Al]

Zuck and la belle...

First. I'm assuming that this thread was not created for you guys to further attempt to make pvping and random pking look like the work of the devil.

It simply states that feluca was created for the sole purpose of having a place for Non-consensual pvp. That means that if you are in fel, you have already signed the waiver saying you are ready to bungee jump. If the cord snaps and you faceplant in the dirt, you were warned.

With that being said, I answer the attempt at an argument from La Belle and Zuck... Not one person said people can't go to fel.. They know what they could be involved in as soon as they hit the red rune, red gate, or feluca facet on a moongate. Does anyone want people to stay out of fel? No.. Just stop playing the victim and actung confused when you die. Feluca was created for player vs player interaction. If you dont want to interact with other players in a possibly hostile environment, then stay out of feluca. There are 3 other facets in the game that you can freely roam without worry

One thing tho... If you notice upon reading the op in it's entirety you will notice that it is just an answer to the question "why did you kill me" not a statement of "tell me why you cry".

I understand that you two thrive off trying to start something where nothing is, but in this case just shut up.

 

[NBG]

Are you saying that Felucca should be available only to those who already have fighting skills and the funds/knowledge/skills to make good equipment? Instead of offering training and helping with equipment, should we discourage those not competitive in PvP by actively PKing them or otherwise running them off? What benefit would we expect to gain? Is this fun? You intend to be the gatekeepers to Felucca and decide who should be there and who should not? Essentially this would close Felucca to everyone but the guilds that represent the status quo. If I am misunderstanding your comment, please clarify.

If you can not defend yourself, then based on the purpose of the original reason for Fel/Tram split, stay in Tram or learn to fight!

Just admit that the only reason that you keep beating a dead horse with the same arguments is because of Champ spawns. People can train and prepare for Fel just fine in Tram. No one claims to be the gatekeepers to Fel so please stop trying to label people as such.

If you want to farm Champ spawns in Tram then go beat that dead horse some more to the Devs.

 

[Chrille]

Well in the early days with powerscrolls. Reds hardly ever turned up down in despise since it was packed with random blues doing the spawn with the old rules.
If you got killed you got teleported out with your corpse and everything in it and couldnt come back for 20 mins.
A few times there where some reds trying to interfear but usually they couldnt do much except killing of a few of the up to 50 blues down there. I remember how everyone tried to get the bar on Baracoon to be able to do some damage and maybe get a scroll if lucky.

Usually back then even if you got ratted and that way grey not many would try to sneak in an attack on you. But since most people never got the bar of the champ and if you just casted 2 eartquakes, about what you had time to before champ was killed, which usually gave you looting rights you could end up being attacked that way.
So back in this days, a not so good equiped char could easily be down in despise doing spawns without any greater danger of getting killed by a random red.

 

[Vlaude]

Zuck and la belle...

First. I'm assuming that this thread was not created for you guys to further attempt to make pvping and random pking look like the work of the devil.

It simply states that feluca was created for the sole purpose of having a place for Non-consensual pvp. That means that if you are in fel, you have already signed the waiver saying you are ready to bungee jump. If the cord snaps and you faceplant in the dirt, you were warned.

With that being said, I answer the attempt at an argument from La Belle and Zuck... Not one person said people can't go to fel.. They know what they could be involved in as soon as they hit the red rune, red gate, or feluca facet on a moongate. Does anyone want people to stay out of fel? No.. Just stop playing the victim and actung confused when you die. Feluca was created for player vs player interaction. If you dont want to interact with other players in a possibly hostile environment, then stay out of feluca. There are 3 other facets in the game that you can freely roam without worry

One thing tho... If you notice upon reading the op in it's entirety you will notice that it is just an answer to the question "why did you kill me" not a statement of "tell me why you cry".

I understand that you two thrive off trying to start something where nothing is, but in this case just shut up.

A little history.. Felucca wasn't "created," it was originally the one and only facet in the game. Trammel was created around the time Everquest was released as a marketing technique to get people to stay with UO. In other words PvP, consensual and non-consensual, were part of the original game. Trammel took that aspect of the game away and Felucca became known as the "pvp facet." Champ spawn rewards in felucca and increased resources and monster loot are basically the only reason left any non-pvp characters go to fel. In my mind, they are the only remnant that remains of the original idea behind UO.

 

[Vlaude]

I will not insult the OP by calling it a dead horse, on the other hand, it's not going to be running the Kentucky Derby again.

Felucca was not originally designed to allow non-consentual PvP to flourish. Non-consentual PvP existed in UO since its beginning. Felucca was introduced at the same time as Trammel in the third expansion pack, Ultima Online: Renaissance (April 3, 2000) and was basically a renaming of the original rule-set to distinguish it from the new facet of Trammel. This expansion was designed not to encourage PvP but on the contrary to give players the ability to opt out of non-consentual PvP, and opt out they did in such numbers that Felucca was largely stripped of players. At first, Felucca was merely the facet where non-consentual PvP was still permitted. It was not "purposefully put into UO to keep non-consensual pvp alive."

In order to give players - and that is ALL players, not just PvPers - an incentive to return to the lands of the original rule-set from which most had fled after the introduction of Trammel, the devs eventually introduced double resources and champ spawns to Felucca. These incentives were introduced as an afterthought, well past the original Trammel/Felucca split. Without these incentives, most players would not have ventured back to the old rule-set.

Felucca is not the dev's gift to any particular player base. It does not "belong" specifically to PvPers.

Beyond the rule that non-consentual PvP is allowed in Felucca, which is a fundamental law of physics, no rules exist in Felucca. Any other behavioral patterns that exist are not laws; they are player-made and can be changed by players to suit their own needs and desires. There is no rule that says players cannot cooperate at spawns which, as one poster has said, used to be the case when champ spawns were first introduced.

To imply that the way matters are right now in Felucca is the way they were designed by the Devs and must always be is wrong. The fact is the current set-up has been deliberately created by a relatively small number of players who have enjoyed a monopoly of certain benefits, scrolls for instance, for some years. Felucca is bound to evolve, with their consent or without, if enough people wish it to be so and are willing to put in the effort.

What's your point? You just admitted to the following:

a) Felucca ruleset was the original ruleset for UO.
b) As long as Felucca has been around, non-consensual PvP has been within the parameters of the game (within Felucca).
c) In the post-renaissance era, champ spawns and double resources were introduced to promote interest in a return to the facet with the game's original ruleset (which allows for non-consensual PvP)
d) Non-consensual PvP happens in Felucca.

So where is the argument that players shouldn't kill other players in Felucca? Not only is it something they enjoy doing, but it is also profitable if done correctly (say, after the spawn has been worked completely). To say that wasn't in the design is just wrong. And if you think any one guild or alliance "dominates" all of Felucca, they don't and never have. I do several Fel champ spawns a week and I never see anyone at them except occasionally Jobriath Cairn of ALLY who has never once killed or attacked me. I've attended several Fel IDOCs alone or with less than a handful of people and have placed Keeps and other houses. This has all been within the last 3 months of my return to the game. So again, you're just wrong.

Coming from someone who is not strictly a PvPer but spends most of my UO time in Felucca let me offer you a few tips:

1. Don't go to Despise if you want to collect power scrolls from champ spawns. This spawn is the one that is most often checked by PK guilds. There are several other locations around Felucca where champ spawns can be done, try some of those. You may still be found at some of them, but it won't be as often.
2. Don't go wandering around Felucca at primetime hours if you don't want to be killed. No further words are needed as to why, it's self explanatory.
3. If you don't want to be killed by other players, ever, don't enter Felucca at any time.
4. If you do enter Felucca, be ready to either fight or die, if either happens, don't complain because it's your own fault for going there.

I encourage you to ask any of the Devs if my advice to you is sound, I am 100% positive they would tell you the same thing.

 

[Slickjack]

I do several Fel champ spawns a week and I never see anyone at them except occasionally Jobriath Cairn of ALLY who has never once killed or attacked me. I've attended several Fel IDOCs alone or with less than a handful of people and have placed Keeps and other houses. This has all been within the last 3 months of my return to the game. So again, you're just wrong.

Sounds like Pitr and Co. were right!

My guild REALLY has the spawns and the IDOCS on "lockdown".... what a f'n joke.

I guess if we WANTED to, then we could check spawns 24/7 with our red faction characters, we could get Giggles to mark "master" runes to all the upcoming IDOCS and check those as well....

BUT WE HAVEN'T. This was not our intention or goal.

Hopefully, it won't be a huge shock to anyone here that there could be potential for our group to be opposed to a FEW guilds in particular...

GASP! The other FACTIONS!!!!

 

[Nevyn]

That's kind of funny. I never saw threads like this back when the PVP guilds had ghosts camped at every champ spawn they checked every 10-15 mins for people running them...at least not on the Catskills shard forum (so if they're mostly just crashing despise now, lol). This feels more UHALLy...

 

[Scarst]

100% true and a legitimate, strong argument for the purpose of answering the question, "why did you kill me?".

Still, the grand thing about UO is that the players are given the choice to make their own rules, such as to opt to not attack or raid random individuals who operate a champ spawn or perform some other felucca activity unless such individuals have agressed upon him/her or his/her clan first, or even help, teach and defend those who are choosing to enjoy the felucca side of the game.

Some other answers might be:

You raided us the this morning.
I thought you were someone else.
My EV accidently attacked you.
You came too close to our withers.

I am very much in favor of the old feluccan system of risk vs. reward, the game was designed this way, just like it says in the OP, but we still have the choice as to whether or not we want to fill the roll of those who those who kill the less equiped.

There is another type of PK'er out there. That plays the game for pvp. They don't consider killing someone weaker than them a victory. They select those that they attack based on creating actual skilled pvp action. For them, it's only about pvp interaction, not powerscrolls or money.

Interesting topic to discuss...

/signed

I'm pretty sure we can agree that if someone is weak or ill-equipped we shouldn't be encouraging them to play in Felucca at all.

Are you saying that Felucca should be available only to those who already have fighting skills and the funds/knowledge/skills to make good equipment? Instead of offering training and helping with equipment, should we discourage those not competitive in PvP by actively PKing them or otherwise running them off? What benefit would we expect to gain? Is this fun? You intend to be the gatekeepers to Felucca and decide who should be there and who should not? Essentially this would close Felucca to everyone but the guilds that represent the status quo. If I am misunderstanding your comment, please clarify.

Yes, players have the choice of how they're going to act, but what you seem to be saying is if they don't act nice to you they're bad, which is complete BS. The people in fel are there for a reason, they want to fight, and doing what they are there to do doesn't make them bad it makes them players of that particular play style. I don't see people telling you people not to sit around haven all day talking to random new characters or asking you to stop doing IDOC's.

Their play style isn't hurting anyone and to say it is is a lie, everything you can get from a Champ spawn you can buy on player vendors. You can also suck it up and defend yourself if by the off chance on this small shard you do get raided. Saying they shouldn't do non-consensual PVP in fel and when they do getting pissy about it because they wont do what you're asking is possible the most juvenile thing I think you could do in that situation, hell in her post the OP has even told you how to learn how to PvP.

And really the only reason you're being raided at your champ spawn is your favorite guild member announces it to the whole shard and on another forum site, if you want to play the victim stop covering yourself in honey, you have no one to blame but yourselves getting raided because you announce it. I can't believe people expect special treatment just because they don't want to PvP.

I'm done with this post and I've always been told to have a conclusion so here it is, If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.

 

[Flutter]

Wow this thread has gone down the toilet.
The purpose of the OP is to answer the question "why did you kill me in XXX dungeon" and to reinforce the fact that just because people participate in non-con PvP it does not make them bad people, or terrorists. It doesn't even necissarily mean that they dislike you. It's an intended part of the game put it to satiate the PvP crowds need for "action".
If one is ill-equpipped, unprepared, or just plain doesn't like to get killed by another player, it is HIGHLY reccommended that that person not go there.

If you want to learn to play on that side of the fence there are many outlets to do so.

 

[DPudding]

I was waiting for some wonderful story written from the perpective of a poor Shara corn farmer of the assault on liberty and freedom and anti-zerging. And how it all culminated in butterflies and marshmallows erupting from the head of Lord British and then Flutter farted and created Trammel.

 

[Thom]

Umm... i've just got to say. If they didn't endorse the non consensual pvp there wouldn't be any. Fel would have become trammel and we wouldn't have two facets, one of which is dedicated to non consensual pvp.

 

[Slickjack]

I RP a murderer.

Since you guys are into that stuff, maybe this will make it easier to understand....

 

[Flutter]

I was waiting for some wonderful story written from the perpective of a poor Shara corn farmer of the assault on liberty and freedom and anti-zerging. And how it all culminated in butterflies and marshmallows erupting from the head of Lord British and then Flutter farted and created Trammel.

Isn't that what I said?

 

[Zosimus]

This thread's down the toilet? That's your opinion I suppose because some here aren't agreeing with your original post. What's happened to this thread is called discourse in my dictionary.

I doubt anyone is making a fundamental moral judgement about who you and your friends are based on your behavior at spawns.

You send people to the official UO website when they ask why you kill them at spawns, as though Mythic specifically endorses your particular viewpoint. My point is that there are no rules at all handed down to any of us from Mythic management that make your game-play style at spawns more legitimate, as your original post implies.

You have to be kidding me. She posted in her original post the exact statement from the devs that worked when this was implimented, I'll repost Flutter's quote.....

Now, quite a few of the semantics have changed over the years, since the game has been tweaked.
The original intent has not changed though, (bolded by myself):


Quote:
Intent
As a brief preface, we’d like to explain the essential goals of the changes listed in this document.
The below changes should…

1. Establish an area where non-consensual pvp can thrive for a significant number of UO’s players.
2. Create a risk versus reward model that encourages non-consensual pvp based around resource control rather than profit from the deceased.
3. Provide meaningful and compelling rewards for players that successfully adventure in the specified areas.

This is what the devs at this time implimented into the game. Mythic Bioware inherited UO and THEY did not change this factor. So "THE CURRENT DEVS" must agree with these rules OR they would of changed them. The beauty of this implimentation it was a risk factor. 1v1, 10 vs 10, or 10 vs 6. It was about being equal or consensual. Its about chaos and mayhem. The devs let us decide how we want to act or play in fel.

Those rules are in place even though you say there are no rules that endorse any PK guild playstyle. It's plainly in the quote directly from UO. Flutter sure didnt make it up to justify how she or any PK in UO acts and plays the game.

If you are not happy with it go to UHALL and make your argument and beg and I mean BEG like no other for spawns to be changed to your liking. I bet my accounts they wont listen and change it no matter what you say.

You better go check Mythic Bioware other 2 games then. They have designated RvR ( PvP to you) areas. Once you step in that area you are free meat to any enemy in that zone. Not the QQ's excuse I'm trying to get my quest done in the RvR area and Order (warhammer online) or the Hiberians (Dark age of Camelot) wont let me get it done. They come and gank me everytime knowing that is a quest area. It's a vital step in my quest process and cant get it done so please Mythic Bioware do something. Either get some freinds go with you and protect you or try to sneak in and not get caught is the solution. Same for UO.

You are not "FORCED" to go to fel and/or RvR zones in any of Mythic Bioware games. Its us as players who choose to go into those areas and it us as players how we play by the game mechanics and rules implimented.

 

[Flutter]

This thread's down the toilet? That's your opinion I suppose because some here aren't agreeing with your original post. What's happened to this thread is called discourse in my dictionary.

I doubt anyone is making a fundamental moral judgement about who you and your friends are based on your behavior at spawns.

You send people to the official UO website when they ask why you kill them at spawns, as though Mythic specifically endorses your particular viewpoint. My point is that there are no rules at all handed down to any of us from Mythic management that make your game-play style at spawns more legitimate, as your original post implies.

You have to be kidding me.

Reading comprehension FTW.
The OP wasn't a "viewpoint" it was factual information as to why the spawns were put into the game in the first place. No amount of "discourse" is going to change that.

Good post Zosimus.

 

[Slickjack]

......your behavior at spawns.......

........make your game-play style at spawns more legitimate.......

These are my favorite lines EVER.....

If killing other players weren't in the design or intention, then we WOULDN'T be able to it!

And as far as legitimate playstyles go, since Felucca was first, I'd say that you're Trammie-style is the one that isn't the AUTHENTIC ONE for Ultima Online....

 

[Black Sun]

This is going nowhere fast.
*click*