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Summoning Pet Balls, Animal Form, and Pets

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Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

I very specificially pointed out the petball/ninja form issue when these things were first found on TC1.


[/ QUOTE ]

Congrats. Siege has been dealing with it for years. I know, I'm a culprit
 

GarthGrey

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
<blockquote><hr>

If petballs are going to be as neutered as some people are suggesting, might I suggest a pet context menu for AI choices? As it is, someone gluing their finger to their attacklast key can effectively nullify a tamer in a field battle, petballs only partially solve this.

A context menu could offer choices such as "guard within 3 tiles" or "guard within one screen," or perhaps simply "stay put until told"

Of course, we would have to fix the huge flagging issues with the "guard" command...

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone remember the old "patrol" command?
 
I

imported_SavageSP

Guest
well Im just saying I wouldnt consider Pet balling a pet while running next to a target the same as Moving shot on a bow.

Moving shot requires Mana as a special move, and is limited to a 1.25 max Swing Rate cap with Bows having High Base Swing Rate.

Petballing on the run in animal form requires no mana and is only limited to how fast the tamer can hit the "petball button" and how many charges he has on it.
 
F

fred252

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

I believe pet balls should be on a timer like a gate spell.
If ur criminal you should not be able to use a pet ball at all and u should not be able to log out ur pet till the criminal timer is up. summoning a pet should take as long as casting a gate spell or as long as getting on a ethy mount. This give the person that dont want to pvm a fair advantage to get away. cause we all know pvm shouldn't be allowed in pvp!:/

(SP)

[/ QUOTE ]

That is just silly.
 
I

imported_Sarphus

Guest
I think summoning balls will still be abuseable with dismount if they don't also have a cast timer on them that freezes you in place.
 
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imported_Krystal

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

You should make the log in log out to retrive your pet use the same conditions that soul stones have. I hate it when you almost have a pet dead only for it to log out.

[/ QUOTE ]


I love this idea ^^

Also like these, Pet balls should have a 2 min criminal timer when the tamer is the aggressor
and animal form should take 1 slot since its same as riding a mount
 
F

Fayled Dhreams

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

I play a PvM ninja/mage these days and animal form taking a follower slot nerfs me, so I vote no on that one.

I just really want to say no to animal form taking a follower slot. Thanx for listening.

OZ

[/ QUOTE ]
get a decent acceptable TIMER in there ... for PvP and PvM ...
might not even need to do ANYTHING re: animal form ...

IF the TIMER/s is not enough
THEN further adaptations can be brought to bear ..
one nifty little combo one just occured to me ...

(timer whatever in place)
Indication/indicator ...
make a requirement that it must be "equiped" to be used.
yeah ... unless you can convince everyone your form has "thumbs"

animal form gets hit the most ... *shrugs*

BUT

instead of words of summoning ... or glows or sounds ...
WOULD be a visual indicator ... for peeps that can see the character
wouldn't require "in place use" (more on that in a sec)
could still be stealthed into areas ... wait, use quietly
*boop*! pet and(maybe should be) summoner revealed ...

(more on that in a sec)
using on the move ..
WHERE the summons was initiated ... is WHERE the pet lands ... hmmm

WHEN the pet has been summoned ... (ie... didn't walk/recall/gate to the site)
An invisible "leash" TIES the summoner and summoned to a certain radius of effect
Drop the ball, pet "forgets why he's where he is"
AFTER being summoned, by the invisible leash ... Summoner "gets to far away/out of sight ... dead"
HARDER to hear the broken leash ... to "poof!" away to where the second summons came from ... maybe even walk there
(auto track)
maybe even "bring the combatants along" ... to the summoner's location ...


Like I said ... worry about the TIMER first ...
 
A

Al Thorin

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I very specificially pointed out the petball/ninja form issue when these things were first found on TC1.


[/ QUOTE ]

Congrats. Siege has been dealing with it for years. I know, I'm a culprit


[/ QUOTE ]
No, Siege has not been dealing with a 900hp, casting, fireballing 60hp hitting 5 slot dragon for years.

The base issue, which -everyone- has been dealing with for years is simply being compounded by a much stronger single pet, whos main limiting factor was that it left no room to have a mount. Ninja is the best logical template to use this animal with, even without petballs, it's the best logical choice.
 
A

Al Thorin

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

well Im just saying I wouldnt consider Pet balling a pet while running next to a target the same as Moving shot on a bow.

Moving shot requires Mana as a special move, and is limited to a 1.25 max Swing Rate cap with Bows having High Base Swing Rate.

Petballing on the run in animal form requires no mana and is only limited to how fast the tamer can hit the "petball button" and how many charges he has on it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, their both similar in function though, ones more balanced, the other has room for improvement.
 
G

Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

You should make the log in log out to retrive your pet use the same conditions that soul stones have. I hate it when you almost have a pet dead only for it to log out.

[/ QUOTE ]


I love this idea ^^

Also like these, Pet balls should have a 2 min criminal timer when the tamer is the aggressor
and animal form should take 1 slot since its same as riding a mount

[/ QUOTE ]
Right... because PvM tamers who actually play in Ilshenar over-use that log in log out "trick" now that their bags of sending have been nerfed all to hell. Let's make 'em tote those pets everywhere!
GREAT idea that one is...

/sarcasm

Let's not forget people that what we do here effects everyone. Not just those who PvP. Want to remove the ability to use pet balls in Fel? Fine. They've done it for other areas why not there too... but give us a break when all we're doing is playing against monsters eh?
AND... If someone gets discon'd or crashes let's not make them unable to play for the rest of the day... or even 10 minutes. It's just not fair.
 
S

smile

Guest
if you read my first post in this thread, you will know that I am aware of Leurocian's request for this thread to be purely on the discussion of petballs.

To Leurocian:
I do not wish to derail the entire thread. Instead, i wish to highlight, with good intentions, that usage of petballs and pvp tamers have to be looked at together. Short-term piecemeal fixes, such as the fix to petballs, are not good because:

1) it would not solve the main underlying problems, thereby wasting precious resources. you also have to revisit the same problem again some time in the future, thereby wasting even more resources.

2) it could possibly have unintended effects on other areas like pvm. such unintended effects often increases with the number of fixes.

3) it may result in other skills or templates being nerfed. for example, the suggestion to use control slots for animal forms would mean less slots for mirror images (this may not be the best example since pure ninjas may not use that many images, but well, you get the picture right?)

4) it may result in over-nerfing, especially if pets were nerfed subsequently. remember, the main problem is pets and tamers, not the petballs.

5) it may create more resistance to future nerfs (no one likes multiple nerfs), some of which are necessary. the typical response is "we had been recently nerfed already. that is enough!" or something to that effect.

Focusing on the main problem is therefore more beneficial to the entire UO community. Like many other pvpers, I am also suffering from the wrath of the gimp tamer-ninjitsu template. However, I would rather suffer a little bit longer and see a more direct fix to pvp tamers.

Lastly, I apologise for derailing this thread. This will be my last post on this matter. I do hope you would consider what I have said and fix what is necessary for pvp.
 
G

Guest

Guest
What I tend to read here is the PvP portion is the most upset because they are getting their butts toasted (literally). Why should the PvM part of our community be punished for PvP abuse..????? Shouldn't be. I can see a re-use time on pet balls used BUT not more then 10-12 sec's to the max. If I'm doing a spawn with my pet &amp; I need him out of where he is at for I can't get to him to vet then why should I suffer by having to wait if I need to use it a lot because we all know, Drags/WW's teleport like crazy. Now if I am being raided by an opposing Guild/Guilds why shouldn't I be able to defend myself with my pet every few sec's because one raider tries to lead him away??? It's my defense just like your sword/bow or whither mister is yours. I can see a slight delay as I have said but not as long as some want. As far as casting timer like a 7th or 8th Circle &amp; paralized, no way. Is there a delay in the most commonly used Necro/Chiv/Bush spells... Nope. So why here, if you need your pet you need him then, not 5 sec's later as I'm OooOooO'ng around.

As far as being able to go into animal form for the speed, as it has been said in UO Hall &amp; in All Shards by many PvP people to PvM people on changes that help PvP'rs kick our butts and that is .. ADAPT &amp; quit your whining. I have seen more PvP whining since the drags &amp; their damage causing attacks have appeared then anything. Necro wither spells by 4 or 5 at a choke point causing Dbl digit damage by every necro there &amp; wiping out many in just a few withers... Do we see this complained on as bad as this.... nope. I don't like it, but unfortunately it is a game play. Personally I'd like to see the new drags ONLY controlled by a 110 + Tamer/Lore character (ideally one w/ some vet of at least 80)
Power words are not needed to be shown, does a stealthing Archer give you a warning as he sneaks up on you before he attacks you... lol hardly

So to sum it all up, Pet Ball Use timer not over 10-12 sec's between uses, Animal form, shouldn't be but is a game play skill so If ya have the points then it should be allowed... But NOT being able to Summon on the run in animal form, take that one ability away from that form. Power words while summoning, No.

Another way to fix this is ONLY put Pet ball timer usage on the Greater Dragons summonings &amp; Leave the Rest of the pets as they are, Alone.
 
G

Guest

Guest
OK, I must first say, I have read every post in this flippin thread.

Problem = PvP tamers chaining petball use in Nija form to efectivly make pets faster and get uncounterable kills. ( without spending hundreds of points on Peacing or something like that)

Proposed solutions:

1. Casting timer on petballs
2. delay in use for petballs
3. Control slots for animal form
4. Use extra charges, depending on pet control slots
5. Agro timer for pets and no use of petball

As this is a discussion about pet balls, I am all for KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid, meaning the delay of petball use seems to be the single simplest fix for now.

Ninja form already has it's dissadvantages.

A casting timer would get PvM pets killed in nasty senarios, as in it would take too long to get your pets out.

Extra charges has merit, but has the problem of a tamer just having 10 petballs for the same pet.

Agro timer also has merit, but would need to NOT apply to PvM situations, ya never know about the coding.

I would like to see a use timer implimented, if nothing else, say 30 seconds, seems reasonable. The attacke, on foot has a chance, the pet may die, the PvMers can get pets out. The one thing that would HAVE to be implimented is tying the timer to the Tamer, no use of 10 pet balls.

This thread has gotten long and a lot has been discussed, I still believe in small functional changes and let the player base decide/test it.

I do play tamers and I do fight tamers.
 
A

Al Thorin

Guest
A casting timer would get PvM pets killed in nasty senarios, as in it would take too long to get your pets out.
I tend to agree. I like to be able to pull a pet out of a situation, when I want, since I -cannot- rely on that animal doing as I want.

Extra charges has merit, but has the problem of a tamer just having 10 petballs for the same pet.
There's a little more to it than that.
10 Pet balls worth of insurance (siege would be a waste to carry 10)
10 balls worth of powder?!
I could burn through 20 charges in a good fight (like 2 hours). 20.
So, at best, I'm going to see being able to summon my beetle and mare -4- times instead of 10. That's a pretty major issue to me. Plus the fall out from the Trans quest has -not- sunk in yet. I suspect once powder becomes less common, you'd see a huge decrease in petball abuse, especially if they were follower slot based.


Agro timer also has merit, but would need to NOT apply to PvM situations, ya never know about the coding.
No. We already have agro timers, dexers can arm their weapon when they attack someone, pets are -part- of the template. Petballs make up for bad AI, plus actually give us the ability to manouver our pets in bad situations.

I know, next time a dexer is boxed in by people, and agro'd he can't use TR's or Divine Fury!
Everyone should play with a limited temp if they are agro'd!
Mages can't wield a spell book!
Dexers can't use a shield!
Bards can only target peace!
Thieves can only steal uninsured.. opps. Yah, we saw the result there.
 
G

Guest

Guest
IMO pet balls aren't tactical weapons for PvP, nor are they a panic button because a tamer got themselves into trouble. Yet apparently, pet balls have become the stabilisers of tamers. Try taking them off and you can still function as a tamer. Adapt? *ducks*

I'm tempted to throw my hands up and say "ok, let's do the fix for fel only and save the PvM tamer from getting upset". But on the other hand I'm thinking I use a pet ball at most once a month, and if I can do that, the pet balls aren't the issue. It's the way tamers handle their pets. Who knows if they'd be better tamers if they learnt good pet handling skills. Would there be a stronger call to fix pet AI if we could no longer correct it with pet balls? Of course.... Maybe a benefit in nerfing those balls in Tram, if it got a long needed fix.

If we're so protective about those balls for stealth PvP attacks, we'll get nerfed in other ways. Like our pet's damage... If you want that surprise pet drop from being hidden, it should IMO come at a cost. We should also think what it's like on the receiving end of such attacks, rather than insist we have a right to make them


Wenchy
 
F

Fayled Dhreams

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

IMO pet balls aren't tactical weapons for PvP, nor are they a panic button because a tamer got themselves into trouble. Yet apparently, pet balls have become the stabilisers of tamers. Try taking them off and you can still function as a tamer. Adapt? *ducks*

I'm tempted to throw my hands up and say "ok, let's do the fix for fel only and save the PvM tamer from getting upset". But on the other hand I'm thinking I use a pet ball at most once a month, and if I can do that, the pet balls aren't the issue. It's the way tamers handle their pets. Who knows if they'd be better tamers if they learnt good pet handling skills. Would there be a stronger call to fix pet AI if we could no longer correct it with pet balls? Of course.... Maybe a benefit in nerfing those balls in Tram, if it got a long needed fix.

If we're so protective about those balls for stealth PvP attacks, we'll get nerfed in other ways. Like our pet's damage... If you want that surprise pet drop from being hidden, it should IMO come at a cost. We should also think what it's like on the receiving end of such attacks, rather than insist we have a right to make them


Wenchy

[/ QUOTE ]
woooooo...w

cut n pasted
archived

one of the best tactical analysis summations that I've seen outside of Military theory classes (usually the more ancient tactical theory discussions ... Sun Tsu ... Patton ...)

whether you knew it or not ... whether it has an impact here or not ... it WILL have an impact on the world at large ... just thought ya oughta know that ...
probably the only credit you'll ever get for it ...but ...
well ...
there ya are
noted.

Probably wont be recognizable ... after the trimming and tuning necessary for re application ...

still


genius
 
G

Guest

Guest
hahaha


No plan ever survives contact with the enemy though *grin*

I mean, this is UHall...

Wenchy
 
G

Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

If petballs are going to be as neutered as some people are suggesting, might I suggest a pet context menu for AI choices? As it is, someone gluing their finger to their attacklast key can effectively nullify a tamer in a field battle, petballs only partially solve this.

A context menu could offer choices such as "guard within 3 tiles" or "guard within one screen," or perhaps simply "stay put until told"

Of course, we would have to fix the huge flagging issues with the "guard" command...

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone remember the old "patrol" command?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes...also, "fetch"

 

Spree

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

You should make the log in log out to retrieve your pet use the same conditions that soul stones have. I hate it when you almost have a pet dead only for it to log out.

[/ QUOTE ]


I love this idea ^^

Also like these, Pet balls should have a 2 min criminal timer when the tamer is the aggressor
and animal form should take 1 slot since its same as riding a mount

[/ QUOTE ]
Right... because PvM tamers who actually play in Ilshenar over-use that log in log out "trick" now that their bags of sending have been nerfed all to hell. Let's make 'em tote those pets everywhere!
GREAT idea that one is...

/sarcasm

Let's not forget people that what we do here effects everyone. Not just those who PvP. Want to remove the ability to use pet balls in Fel? Fine. They've done it for other areas why not there too... but give us a break when all we're doing is playing against monsters eh?
AND... If someone gets discon'd or crashes let's not make them unable to play for the rest of the day... or even 10 minutes. It's just not fair.

[/ QUOTE ]


Why would it affect you in Ish? The log in log out feature was added to take some load off the GMs from looking for lost pets. If you can only do this in your house or inn, it still serves the interned purpose. As for ish you can park your pet at the moongate run to your hunting spot and use your pet ball and you have your pet. When you leave if I remember right on Trammel shards you can recall out of Ish so there is no problem there.
 
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imported_Anakena

Guest
<blockquote><hr>


Also like these, Pet balls should have a 2 min criminal timer when the tamer is the aggressor ...

[/ QUOTE ]

No. There are too many issues with the agressor flag. It is rather common to be attacked and still be flagged as agressor, especially if you have followers

<blockquote><hr>


... animal form should take 1 slot since its same as riding a mount

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds logical.
 
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imported_Anakena

Guest
<blockquote><hr>


5. Logging out to save a pet after it has been "All Killed" on a player should be looked at also, if they are gonna attack you with a pet, and you manage live, you should be able to Kill the Pet and make it take a Skill Loss at the very least before they pull it to safty without being on screen to command it.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Right now if a player spams an "attack last" macro on the pet, the pet is totally uncontrollable as every second it will try to go back to the spammer. The only way to counter that is to take distance, and either use a petball (prolly nerfed soon) either to hide and logout/login. There are even lot of circumstances in PvM where the only way to control a pet is to logout/login.
 
L

LAH Architect

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

We are 95 percentage pvp pks on all shards and kill everyone wiht 120 damge combo corpse skin Vas Ort Falmm Kal Vas flamm.now tamer owns us obvously we are the king necro-mages.We are 2 classes!! Mage and necro and we own the shards.Please change tamer yes!Becasue we want to be king again just us necro mages wich are 95 percentage of each shard.
If you wangt to change tamer change fist necromages.This are 2 clases mage and necro and not one!And to control greater dragon its highend Tamer not a regular one!
Necromages.corpseskin, REVENANT(pet),striangel.Painstrike(staminaleech),Bodoogh.Vas ort flam kalvasvlam,paralyse,Egergyfields over cross.
PLEASE FIX THis template first that it itsnt posible to have one char wtih both classes necro and mage!!
A LIFe for necromages the god pvp class!they cant take out this Dragon solo and we necromages want to take this Dragon solo in pvp then dear necromages get misic peacemaking and iscrodance to do this.Maybe Ea csan help you teh new template.Necro plus mage plus bard (music,discord,peace).Then you are again god in pvp!

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone please ignore this post, as it has bad grammer,spelling and is completely off topic and ignorant.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's valuable feedback from a non-english speaking UO player that bothers to post. Note that the number of US based UO players could be less than half of UO's current population.

I have posted in my previous replies on how to handle PvP Tamers. Just click my nick and see last posts. Many Asians do not have a problem with PvP Tamers as we are more flexible in learning &amp; adapting to this game instead of just calling for nerfs.

The major PvP guilds in UO (USA) have people on Asian shards to learn the newest templates and tactics, which is usually 3-6 months slower in USA.

Good Luck Leurocian, remember : pHeAr tHe bArDs !
 
G

Guest

Guest
I think this thread has highlighted the significant problems with pet AI which are resulting in frequent pet ball use. If those problems didn't exist, the pet ball wouldn't be so essential for some tamers and would be used more for the original "rescue a pet" purpose.

Hopefully Leurocian is taking notes of the AI bugs too


Oddly, herding a pet to follow you seems to work more reliably than the actually follow command. I seriously think pet AI needs a thorough overhaul as a nice wee present alongside our extra stable slots *hint hint*

I'd love new commands like:

"put it down!" as pet insists on chomping the wrong monster...
"guys!?!" for when pets run off in opposite directions leaving you with the meanie.
"flee!" for those moments when all your pet wants to do is suicide on something.

And a set of blinkers, so we can stop pets going frantic to reach a monster they can't even see through a wall.

Nearly forgot that other bug... where a pet is res'd if you vet while it dies, then immediately re-targetted and splatted
Another use for the flee command...

Wenchy
 
C

Crystilastmous

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Hello Everyone,

Just letting you know we have been reading your feedback on summoning pet balls, animal form, and pets.

Some of the suggestions I've seen target reducing effectiveness of one or more of these three things.

At the moment, I'm more inclined to look at the summoning pet balls first and see if we want to make any changes to it. One of the main suggestions I have seen that has possibilities is to require a reuse timer for the summoning pet balls, and perhaps don't allow them to be used while in animal form.

Let's try and only discuss pet summoning ball specific changes in this thread. I'd like to gather specific feedback on them.

Thanks all!

[/ QUOTE ]



I'd suggest NOT putting overpowered pets in game; pet balls are not the problem. The strength of the super dragon,is what needs to be reviewed.

Pets should be powerful, but not THIS powerful.
 
G

Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

A casting timer would get PvM pets killed in nasty senarios, as in it would take too long to get your pets out.
I tend to agree. I like to be able to pull a pet out of a situation, when I want, since I -cannot- rely on that animal doing as I want.

[/ QUOTE ] But that's not how taming was designed to be and not what petballs were put in for; they were to reduce the number calls to GMs about stuck pets, not reduce the risk to the pet and the owner.

If you have an exceedingly powerful weapon in the form of a pet there should be some downside in terms of a risk of it not being a total slave to your every whim. Petballs are used to overcome this so that tamers have become used to their pets virtually never dying because if there is ever a risk of that they just whip them out of trouble with a petball.

I think a decent cool-down period of 10 mins on petballs is essential for PvP and would remove an undesigned prop from PvM.
 
I

imported_Goron

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

IMO pet balls aren't tactical weapons for PvP, nor are they a panic button because a tamer got themselves into trouble. Yet apparently, pet balls have become the stabilisers of tamers. Try taking them off and you can still function as a tamer. Adapt? *ducks*

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe it was you that said you were doing fine as a pvp tamer before petballs were even around so you found no need to ADAPT and start using them once they became available. Now, you are telling us that we should ADAPT and stop using petballs...
I am confused... why the heck don't YOU adapt and START using petballs

lol

We adapted when they came out, Im sure we will adapt no matter what happens to them post nerf. You are the only one who has not adapted yet.
 
L

LAH Architect

Guest
I have received quite a few template requests from PvP contacts on a number of shards since this thread started.

I would like to say even after you remove pet balls entirely from the game, nerf animal form ninjas, the next 'over-powered' tamer-based template is already being worked on by the elite players soulstoning skills.

A character without Hiding and Stealth and Ninja has 300 more skill points. These are being invested currently into Necro, SS and Resist. The offensive skill bar has risen a lot.

In the end, the nerfs will accompish nothing except limit templates and we move on to the next round. Bye Bye 900 HP New Dragons, Bye Bye PvM Tamers.
 
G

Guest

Guest
This fix can be balanced WITHOUT effecting the trammel/pvm mindset or activities. I hope you all can make that happen, only because every pvp change, it seems like it leaves the trammel/pvm players angry ;/


But this will be a great fix, everyone training up thier tamers to use them, and ALOT are. No sarcasm either!


I'm just happy my pvp tamer will not be effected by this (IE I dont abuse an overpowered combination of things...)
 

Shelleybean

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
<blockquote><hr>

If you have an exceedingly powerful weapon in the form of a pet there should be some downside in terms of a risk of it not being a total slave to your every whim. Petballs are used to overcome this so that tamers have become used to their pets virtually never dying because if there is ever a risk of that they just whip them out of trouble with a petball.

I think a decent cool-down period of 10 mins on petballs is essential for PvP and would remove an undesigned prop from PvM.

[/ QUOTE ]

If pet AI worked better, then this wouldn't even be an issue. I'd also like to point out that PVM has suffered quite a few nerfs over the years due to "pvp" adjustments. A timer on the pet summoning ball should only apply to pvp situations. After all, this thread is about a pvp complaint, is it not?
 
G

Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Inablilty to use pet ball in entire T2A area = Great idea

[/ QUOTE ]

NO NO NO NO NO.

We are trying to balance the use of pet balls, NOT totally 'ban' them from use in t2a and champion regions!

This is NOT needed.

Especially when it gets rough to control a a pet with hundreds of spawn around!
 
I

imported_Lord GOD(GOD)

Guest
Pet balls to not work in animal form.

No PVM implications.
PVP abuse solved.

Anyone got a reason this would affect PVM? As this would leave them still functioning as they currently do on everyone not in animal form this would still enable people who need to pet ball their pets round ilsh or whichever region the ability to do so, without any timers.
People in peerless &amp; people who lose conn in those type of places would still have their pet bought back to them. People would still be able to pet ball their pet out of danger when swamped in doom etc.
 
I

imported_Goron

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Pet balls to not work in animal form.

No PVM implications.
PVP abuse solved.


[/ QUOTE ]No sir.
Then I just use a rune beetle.
Stealth to target, mount ethy, wait for dismount, summon pet, "all kill" chase target spamming petball.
No different than now. I use a rune beetle now too (but animal form not ethy) and it works very well.
There needs to be a ~5 second cooldown timer on petballs.
 
G

Guest

Guest
I have been totally astonished at some of the uses other people put these items to.

I think the first thing that needs to be clarified is, what is their intended use?

How many of the purposes they're being used for are actually abuse, whether in pvp, or in pvm.
 
G

Guest

Guest
I simply said they weren't a weapon. Not that they had no place in PvP.

I asked players to think of their victims, rather than demand that they should be able to pull attacks out of the blue, dropping powerful pets on somebody's head.

They may not appreciate your attacks as much as you enjoy dropping them.

It's like the tamers who used to lead 10 WWs around with them. I wasn't one of those either. I like a good fight, not taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Wenchy
 
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Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

If pet AI worked better, then this wouldn't even be an issue.

[/ QUOTE ]Maybe they are working just as intended and no more AI is needed. A dragon would be something like the size of a dinosaur? They would then have a brain the size of a nut. They would also be fairly savage beasts even when tamed. So if they don't always obey every whim of the tamer then that's to be expected.

Or to put it another way: They are a powerful weapon and some uncontrollability should be expected as balance.
 
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Guest

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<blockquote><hr>

I have been totally astonished at some of the uses other people put these items to.

I think the first thing that needs to be clarified is, what is their intended use?

How many of the purposes they're being used for are actually abuse, whether in pvp, or in pvm.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto
Mine just sit gathering dust in the bank lol.

Wenchy
 

Samaira

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
RTLFC

As many have said, THANK YOU for showing an interest in addressing this issue. I for one am sick to death of being lumped in with the group of gimpy twinky stealth tamers. I put stealth on my tamer before I even knew people pvped with pets. We aren't all petball-obsessed OCD sufferers.

I've said it in other threads, this problem is simple to fix without going overboard.

Short delay/cooldown on use of petballs - 10 seconds, no more than 20 imo. Seriously, try JUST this on TC and see what the results are. PLEASE don't go overboard, as there are a number of issues that mean petballs are a necessary "evil" for tamers.

I don't like 'em - petballs that is. But I run a fairly basic machine, and it often takes at least three minutes for me to log in/log out. With a big group at a peerless/doom/champs, this can be lead to a serious deficit in my damage total, and a gross waste of time. Petballs are quick, simple and effective, with a cost that (as Al Thorin, I think, sorry if I got it wrong, has already said) is going to increase as old stockpiles of trans powder start to run low. I don't use them often, but its like a pet insurance policy for me because, as others have stated, pet AI is pretty average.

Give us a command that temporarily overrides autodefend for (let's say) 5-10 seconds. Pet cannont be commanded to kill during this time, can only follow, come, or stay. Something akin to the aforementioned "flee" command
. Think outside the box with this one, too, guys - your miner's heavily-laden packy ever decided he can box with a gargoyle? A "retreat!" wouldn't just be handy for tamers in strife. This in conjunction with a 10 second cool-down on petballs would be perfect imo. No one is getting an unfair advantage, the nerf-stick isn't hitting too hard and it's giving those pvpers a bit of much-needed breathing space. Chaining petballs is bad. Let's keep the focus where is should be.


One issue I have with the suggestions so far is the combination of a longer timer (even only 30 seconds) tied to the character. Example: hunting with a pack. Pack gets a bit swamped, you want to vamoose or simply retreat a little. If the timer is tied to the char, its going to take you a fair whack of time to pull five pets out of danger.

I frequently use my stealth tamer in champs. She's a resser, healer and general support char for the lower levels, where I have no show of outdamaging a necromage withering or a dexxer using whirlwind (for example). I use evs for the lower levels then dispel and summon my pets for the champ. An overlong delay tied to the tamer is going to leave anyone who decides to use a two pet combo at a champ as a sitting duck while you wait out the timer to summon your companion pet. Once again - another gross waste of time.


To me, this fix is simple. Code it so that each pet can only be linked to one petball at a time. If a tamer attempts to link that pet to any subsequent petballs, they get an error message, or that attempt simply overrides the first and unlinks the pet from any other balls. One pet - one petball. Timer is applied to the petball. The cooldown timer should be no less than 6-8 seconds. This gives enough time for that poor sod getting chased by the petball-spamming stealth dismount tamer to get a successful bandy/gheal/close wounds off, or wait out his dismount timer, and run a good wee distance away from the lumbering pet before he can anticipate getting whoomped again. On the flipside, no less than 6-8 seconds is an acceptable amount of time to have to wait between forcibly dragging your pet out of a messy autodefend situation.

Anyway, that's my 2 gp. I'm pretty confident you guys are going to be sensible about this - your actions over the past weeks have shown a comforting amount of planning and forethought
 
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Guest

Guest
Also, logging out and in should send your pet to the stables, not act as an alternative to petballs.

Petballs should use charges equal to the stable slots for each use. So a 5 slot dragon should use 5 charges.
 
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imported_Goron

Guest
<blockquote><hr>


I asked players to think of their victims, rather than demand that they should be able to pull attacks out of the blue, dropping powerful pets on somebody's head.

[/ QUOTE ]Why would I do that? if I felt badly for the people I kill I'd go play WoW.

When I play my dexxeer and poison someone, and they cure it I don't go "oh jolly good chap, you have countered my move! great one! lets have a cup o tea!" - oh no, I poison the little punk right away again. I want that advantage and I will continue to use it. My goal is to kill them, not get killed. The same applies to my tamer, my goal is to kill the victim. And without the ambush, I find it very difficult to kill someone as a tamer.

But I do support nerfing petballs because they are TOO effective as is. The ability to chase while spamming petball makes them overly powerful.
 
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imported_Lord GOD(GOD)

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

No sir.
Then I just use a rune beetle.
Stealth to target, mount ethy, wait for dismount, summon pet, "all kill" chase target spamming petball.
No different than now. I use a rune beetle now too (but animal form not ethy) and it works very well.
There needs to be a ~5 second cooldown timer on petballs.

[/ QUOTE ]

That doesn't matter, the other player can summon a live mount to escape with in the time it takes you to get on your ethy.

Unless they wern't bola'd in the first place which causes no issue as they can still run away.
 
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imported_Goron

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

No sir.
Then I just use a rune beetle.
Stealth to target, mount ethy, wait for dismount, summon pet, "all kill" chase target spamming petball.
No different than now. I use a rune beetle now too (but animal form not ethy) and it works very well.
There needs to be a ~5 second cooldown timer on petballs.

[/ QUOTE ]

That doesn't matter, the other player can summon a live mount to escape with in the time it takes you to get on your ethy.

Unless they wern't bola'd in the first place which causes no issue as they can still run away.

[/ QUOTE ]

I mount ethy while hidden, that is possible on trammie shards too, or am i wrong?
I don't bola, I wait for a dismount, meaning someone else dismounts them. I did not make that completely clear, but in all of my previous posts this thread, I mention buddy with heavyXbow dismounts.
 
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imported_Lord GOD(GOD)

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

I mount ethy while hidden, that is possible on trammie shards too, or am i wrong?
I don't bola, I wait for a dismount, meaning someone else dismounts them. I did not make that completely clear, but in all of my previous posts this thread, I mention buddy with heavyXbow dismounts.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's possible on production shards.

Ah no that wasn't clear to me, but in that event it's a gank anyway. People are likely to die to ganks. (&amp; imo if they have good manners expected to!)
 
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Guest

Guest
I don't play to lose either, I just don't jump into the gimp suit of the day and abuse tools and mechanics of UO to score a kill at any cost.

It's the worst gimp tamers who brought us here needing a nerf. Which is why I didn't add to the problem when the opportunity arose.

Wenchy
 
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imported_Goron

Guest
<blockquote><hr>


Ah no that wasn't clear to me,

[/ QUOTE ]my bad, but please be sure to read entire thread before posting to prevent miscommunications and reposts

<blockquote><hr>

but in that event it's a gank anyway. People are likelyto die to ganks.

[/ QUOTE ]Ok, Put me vs 6 of any template you choose except tamer, multiple times, and I bet I can escape the same ratio as I do against ONE stealth tamer and ONE heavy dismounter (two people)(NOTE: I said escape, not kill all of them and hump their bodies... meanign I;d be running for my life using everything at my desposal to survive NOT fight).

I agree, ganks are ganks and shouldnt be easy to get away from... but a 2 man squad holding the same amount of power as a 6 man gank? thats silly.
 
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Guest

Guest
Looks like I'm a little late to the party here,
I think the ideal solution to this problem is not a simple re-use timer, using the ball in quick succession is a valuable tactic for non-PvP use.
I'd be of the opinion it should be tied into aggression, so that the re-use timer kicks in when the pet it's linked to is told to kill something, Or if that's not possible, any kill command.
I'd also like to see a limit on the number of carried pet balls (One per linked pet) and a reduction on their maximum charges, from 20 to say 5 or 10.
 
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imported_Lord GOD(GOD)

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

my bad, but please be sure to read entire thread before posting to prevent miscommunications and reposts

[/ QUOTE ]
As this thread is dragging out a bit now I'll take your word for it!

Besides I didn't read your posts because I know you play siege, I always expect Siege to get an exception from normal rules as it's a whole other game there.

On production shards I still think not being able to use a pet ball in animal form is the problem sufficiently dealt with, no one really gets 'nerfed' there are no timers or penalties imposed on people who it doesn't really affect.

As tamers are a option in fel (wether people like it or not) any other time that it's dismount/all kill I see as fair and it is then up to the player to set themselfs up to avoid it. (live mount/petball or ninjitsu) If it's something that happens to them enough for it to be worth it that is.
 

BajaElladan

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I totally disagree with the claim that Pet Summoning Ball(s) are solely for PvP!!!

I NEVER PvP and use Pet Summon Ball(s) constantly for PvM. Especially when "All Follow Me" if repeated almost always is met by a "spam speech detected" message.

Some may NOT realize this, but some folks are PvM "griefers" who delight in luring oodles of spawn onto Tamers pet or pets. Often, our only hope to save our companions from death is a Pet Summon Ball.

Don't destroy this...and while you are at it, add some flexibility to your speech spam detector...please.

Dar/TOT
 
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imported_Goron

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

I totally disagree with the claim that Pet Summoning Ball(s) are solely for PvP!!!

I NEVER PvP and use Pet Summon Ball(s) constantly for PvM. Especially when "All Follow Me" if repeated almost always is met by a "spam speech detected" message.

Some may NOT realize this, but some folks are PvM "griefers" who delight in luring oodles of spawn onto Tamers pet or pets. Often, our only hope to save our companions from death is a Pet Summon Ball.

Don't destroy this...and while you are at it, add some flexibility to your speech spam detector...please.

Dar/TOT

[/ QUOTE ]Would a 5 second cooldown timer on the petball hurt you badly? Thats what I propose. Although I never use petballs for pvm, I have no desire to nerf their pvm abilities. I am arguing against long timers and cast times and all that. Don't attack me when I am on your side... I hihgly suggest you read the thread and realize its everyone else proposing 30second to 2 minute timers... i just want 5 seconds.
 
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imported_Ozymandies

Guest
What is coming out here is that the timer needs to be on the PET, not the tamer or the ball.

OZ
 
N

Nerf-Herder

Guest
Wont work. As pointed out before Noxin, many pet ball based PvP tamers carry extra powders and have a macro to recharge the ball on the move.

I'm starting to think that ninja could be left alone completely and that the only change that needs to be made is making a pet ball "cast" the exact same way as an ethereal mount summon attempt.

Sorry Goron, but I strongly disagree with your assertion that a petball should be able to be used as a surprise attack tactic. We aren't talking about a stealther that pops out of hiding and sticks a dagger in your rear, we are talking about a stealther that pops out and hurls a monster at the victim. A monster that has between three and five times (now up to ten times) the HP of an average player character. A monster that ignores the spell casting physics of UO to which its target is still bound. A monster that can bleed, deadly poison, corrupt armor, etc... and most importantly, the stealther in this case gets to sit back and watch the show if he so chooses, or (currently anyway) run to his fleeing victim and repeatedly nail that one special item...

You have said that you have difficulty killing people with pets when you are not using a pet ball. Well, everyone does man. Most of the kills you will get this way will be by attacking complete noobs, naked people, or people that have already taken substantial damage.

Your pets are only a tool my friend. A tool that needs to be complimented by something else to be truly effective. What if you were to drop hiding stealth and ninja and replace the with mage, med, eval? Or archery, tactics, anatomy? The great thing about pets is the burst damage. If you adjusted your template so YOU could add to that burst damage, you wold start dropping people. Look at Sprago, he often runs a straight mage tamer and does very well.

Look man, stealth is largely a defensive skill. It's only offensive benefit is to provide the stealther with the element of surprise/first attack. When that surprise comes in the form of a 950 HP Wyrm with 120+ Wrestle, Tactics, Magery, and an absolutely devastating fire breath... it is just a wee bit ridiculous. It is just as bad when done with a rune beetle, or a bake.

Pet balls need to be made to have a casting time like the ethereal mount statues.
 
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