Suit Philosophy in 2016

[maji111]

There are, amongst this forum, plenty of experienced players that play a variety of templates for a many number of reasons. I've recently been drafting myself an updated version of a sampire suit as the one I've currently got is a little outdated and looking at others for inspiration in how to max out my suit left me wondering whether the warrior 'meta' has changed somewhat since I last played.

So, I'd be very interested to see how people craft their suits for the current state of the game and what preferences we each have. For example:

If you're running VE, do you still imbue your resists to 70/110/70/85/70 to corpse proof it or do you stick to 70/85/70/85/70?
Do you overcap your stamina to 191 (or equivalent) to counter 8% feeble (or equivalent)?
Does anyone still run 10-20% DCI with high parry to effectively use CA or is it more common to run 45% DCI for maxmimum defense whilst dropping parry to 60 only for special move discount?
Are people favouring lower skill templates to enable better suits?
How many of us are actually resuiting around cameos?
How many of us are running 100% DI suits for an extra weapon mod?
Have people started to recraft a lot of weapons to run Onslaught or are you staying with AI?
Extra LMC or stam loss prevention?

This isn't a thread asking for advice per se, but, more of a general interest thread that hopefully can stir up a bit of innovation and creativity as it seems there are many aspiring warriors out there that only have access to information that has become somewhat stagnant.

Anyone willing to share their philosophy on how they create their suits and/or templates for that matter; I'm sure your input would be greatly received by the entire community.

 

[Tuan]

Most people want to run around in suits that are 75/75/70/70/75 for one after whatever spells they're planning to use are applied. That said, with as easy as it is to cancel spells these days, I didn't bother with corpse skin proofing myself. Some will argue in favor of all 75s, but the math simply doesn't support that as being worth while for cold and poison damage types.

Yes, most people (overcap isn't the word, since 180 isn't a cap) will give themselves a buffer above their target threshold. Again, since it is quite easy to cancel the effects of debuffs now, in most cases this is done to give some cushion for stamina loss due to getting hit.

There are people who do both... not sure which is more common these days.

Not sure anyone ever "favored" this. Maybe they were just too lazy or lacked the skill to build a proper suit?

Since the cameos are still quite rare, I suspect the number is pretty low. If I had some cameos, I'd rebuild my suit accordingly.

I think most people have started to rework their weapons in favor of onslaught. If your goal is to produce the best possible effect, this is a given.

I've tried both the 55 LMC and less LMC but more stam protection. For me, a hybrid of metal and studded is what I settled on.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

If you're running VE, do you still imbue your resists to 70/110/70/85/70 to corpse proof it or do you stick to 70/85/70/85/70?

Varies but generally speaking, no, I don't do this anymore, I would if the character was intended for Fel.

Do you overcap your stamina to 191 (or equivalent) to counter 8% feeble (or equivalent)?

Sometimes, but it isn't the big deal most people think it is, I can honestly say no fight I've ever been in has been won/lost on the basis of dropping 0.25s of a swing. I think people that say they have are exaggerating.

Does anyone still run 10-20% DCI with high parry to effectively use CA or is it more common to run 45% DCI for maxmimum defense whilst dropping parry to 60 only for special move discount?

Have done, yes. But currently no as there is other more pressing stuff to be doing than toggling CA repeatedly.

Are people favouring lower skill templates to enable better suits?

I don't see the correlation.

How many of us are actually resuiting around cameos?

Hell no.

How many of us are running 100% DI suits for an extra weapon mod?

Nope.

Have people started to recraft a lot of weapons to run Onslaught or are you staying with AI?

I have rebuilt a character for Onslaught, but, there are still plenty of fights where AI is superior.

Extra LMC or stam loss prevention?

LMC every time.

Anyone willing to share their philosophy on how they create their suits and/or templates for that matter; I'm sure your input would be greatly received by the entire community.

Although it's not hard to change template/suit with all the means we have now it's still a lot of work (to do it properly anyway) and usually money, whenever I rebuild I usually have a pretty clear idea of the purpose for the rebuild before hand, sometimes it's to replace an overpriced suit relying on loads of artys with a basic one that still ticks all the same boxes, it could be to take advantage of something new I've found to be particularly useful or overpowered, it could be for a specific encounter or set of encounters, it could be around a special move. I don't think I've ever built anything around a weapon or piece of armour. I also change characters if I feel that any two of them are too similar in playstyle; for example I wouldn't have a sampire and a dragoon unless one or the other was a hybrid with something else like a Discord sampire for example, but even then probably not. I have 7 characters and like them to all be different, I've got a mule, Tamer, Bard, melee dexxer, ranged dexxer, caster, and currently one that I was in the middle of changing around when I lost interest for a while but it was going to be a PvP character.

Whatever I'm building I usually start from thinking about how I'm going to be attacking and how I'm going to be healing. Sometimes one determines the other. What/where I'm going to be using the character for usually determines the rest. I often make use of the free enhanced artifacts from VvV.

Dexxers I usually know what specials I'm going to be using, which makes it easy to look up what weapons have those specials, and out of those weapons which have the highest dps that I can achieve in a fairly easy way. This tends to be well known anyway which is why you see everyone running the same gear and weapons.

Casters depending on the variation, but for the sake of argument a character that's doing their damage with spells, I pack on SDI and things that boost the damage, like Corpse Skin, Omen, Spellweaving, Discord if/where possible. When I was regearing a caster for PvP it was around the idea of 30 SDI, Parry, Scribe or Poison. I like Mage duelling as it's really the only aspect that's still down to player skill rather than RNG (without Casting Focus involved anyway).

In general I like doing things with my characters that most other people aren't, some of the best being Mystic dexxers, Ninja dexxers, Discord sampires, sampire Tamers, Spellweaving Necro/Parry/Mages, Scribe/Necro/Mages. I sometimes build templates specifically for certain encounters that are considered difficult (or were at the time), like Slasher, Exodus, Cora, Corgul, Scalis.

I try to build my characters solidly even if they're just for PvM as I like to have more than one option for healing/curing/damaging.

Melee defense is probably the most overlooked aspect of templates/suits, combined with reliance on Protection and never learning how to play different templates (like casters/spell timing) are the #1 reason there's still a lot of veteranoobies.

Also, whatever I'm building I tend to aim for it being able to do 100% in that style of play, so my Bard is always 3x or 4x for Despair/Tribulation damage, I've had many Tamer variations - my favourite being Chiv/dexxer hyrbid with or without Vamp Form, I use ideas like tanking to utilise pack instinct of Frenzies or Rune Beetle corruption, my melee dexxer is currently built for Onslaught and all 75's resists, my ranged dexxer is a max damage/swing Throwing/Sampire/Wammy (150 Str/120 Tact/120 Anat/100 DI/Slayers/Chiv/Bush), my caster is currently a 4/6 Necro/Parry/Weaver/Mage with Defensive Wrestle and 100+ SDI plus slayers who can combo close to 1000 damage. My 7th character I'm still considering what to do with but it will probably involve Ninjitsu/Poisoning.

 

[CorwinXX]

If you're running VE, do you still imbue your resists to 70/110/70/85/70 to corpse proof it or do you stick to 70/85/70/85/70?

I prefer to have additional fire resist in case of corpse skin... if I have imbuying slot for it... but I don't sacrifice 8 mana or stamina for it. Also as was said above getting 75/75/70/70/75 has more priority.
Now days resists are usually not a problem - just add one 120+ res legendary artifact to the suit.

Do you overcap your stamina to 191 (or equivalent) to counter 8% feeble (or equivalent)?

If you haven't Resisting Spells you need about 30 stamina to counter feeble. As to me the best way to counter it is to drink a greater dex potion.
You also need to counter stamina loss when you take a heavy hit. 191 (+11) isn't enough. My last char had 205 stamina (usually I prefer to get more SSI but this one had only 20 SSI).

Does anyone still run 10-20% DCI with high parry to effectively use CA or is it more common to run 45% DCI for maxmimum defense whilst dropping parry to 60 only for special move discount?

As to me CA is completely useless in PvM. In my tests I killed monsters slower (with the same char 120 bushido/parry, 0 DCI) when used CA. May be my connection is too slow to reactivate special move fast enough.

Are people favouring lower skill templates to enable better suits?

Yes, I prefer skills over stats. My templates usually have 750+ skills.

How many of us are actually resuiting around cameos?

For me it is too expensive at the moment... may be few years later...

How many of us are running 100% DI suits for an extra weapon mod?

I like the idea. One of my last chars had 100 DI without weapon. I included one woodland armor piece with 10 DI to the suit.
It is especially good for a 1H + shield template.

Have people started to recraft a lot of weapons to run Onslaught or are you staying with AI?

I preffered DS over AI in most situations even before Onslaught came.

Extra LMC or stam loss prevention?

I usually prefer to have 50 LMC (3 studded items). Very often there is no difference between 55 and 50 LMC.
For "pure" suits I'd selected metal for melee and studded for ranged.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

In general most fights are not as complicated as might be thought from reading these forums, all the detailed template and suit configurations aside, monsters are dumb, and fights are predictable. At it's most basic level, as long as you're able to consistently reduce their hp while maintaining yours you will win, it doesn't really matter how long a fight takes in that regard. So although I like looking at the top damage output per class it really isn't necessary.

Playing 'weird' templates is usually a lot more fun. There's a lot of skills that are effective in the 70-90 range, you could build an 8x90 skill character, maybe gearing up for the primary skill/melee attack/defence. I like ideas like 'turtling', what's the most defensive setup I can have, and what offense can I get away with while doing it... Combining options like Defensive Wrestle, Parry, Ninja, Reactive Parra, Alchemy/E.P., Refinements, RPD, Blood Oath, HPR, Peace masteries etc. Standing on top of the monster spamming attack last/Mirror Images with 4/6 casting, while 5 Frenzies/Hell Hounds attack. Unless they've got Aura, Necro or Counter Attacks.

 

[kaio]

There are, amongst this forum, plenty of experienced players that play a variety of templates for a many number of reasons. I've recently been drafting myself an updated version of a sampire suit as the one I've currently got is a little outdated and looking at others for inspiration in how to max out my suit left me wondering whether the warrior 'meta' has changed somewhat since I last played.

So, I'd be very interested to see how people craft their suits for the current state of the game and what preferences we each have. For example:

If you're running VE, do you still imbue your resists to 70/110/70/85/70 to corpse proof it or do you stick to 70/85/70/85/70?
Do you overcap your stamina to 191 (or equivalent) to counter 8% feeble (or equivalent)?
Does anyone still run 10-20% DCI with high parry to effectively use CA or is it more common to run 45% DCI for maxmimum defense whilst dropping parry to 60 only for special move discount?
Are people favouring lower skill templates to enable better suits?
How many of us are actually resuiting around cameos?
How many of us are running 100% DI suits for an extra weapon mod?
Have people started to recraft a lot of weapons to run Onslaught or are you staying with AI?
Extra LMC or stam loss prevention?

This isn't a thread asking for advice per se, but, more of a general interest thread that hopefully can stir up a bit of innovation and creativity as it seems there are many aspiring warriors out there that only have access to information that has become somewhat stagnant.

Anyone willing to share their philosophy on how they create their suits and/or templates for that matter; I'm sure your input would be greatly received by the entire community.

I dont think its needed to overstack resist when u use VE, mostly because you can eat an apple, and all the badness goes away.
In most cases i find it ok to overstack stamnia around 5 points seems to work for me. Its not the end of the world if i get to swing 1.5 instead of 1.25.
I only use CA when i pvp, for pvm i find it kinda useless.
I favor all my suits gold wise / purpose.
Those who used the VvV talisman + city bonus, dosent really need to resuit much around the new cameros. Unless you are a hardcore die-hard warrior who wants the top of the pop, then i dont think
cameros are worth their price.
I always wanted to have a 100% DI suit, just never got to build one.
I dont find Onslaught to be that "uber", atm i just stick to DS and AI depending on the monster i fight.

I find 3 Studd pieces + 2 metal pieces to work quite well for 50 LMC. But tbh u can get along just fine with 40% LMC in most cases.

For suit creating i find it easier to use 2-3 Major/greater/legendaries and M&S glasses or spirit of totem, and reforge/imbue the rest.

 

[Tabin]

How many of us are actually resuiting around cameos?
How many of us are running 100% DI suits for an extra weapon mod?
Have people started to recraft a lot of weapons to run Onslaught or are you staying with AI?
Extra LMC or stam loss prevention?

This isn't a thread asking for advice per se, but, more of a general interest thread that hopefully can stir up a bit of innovation and creativity as it seems there are many aspiring warriors out there that only have access to information that has become somewhat stagnant.

Anyone willing to share their philosophy on how they create their suits and/or templates for that matter; I'm sure your input would be greatly received by the entire community.

How many of us are actually resuiting around cameos?
I prefer using cameos over anything else. The extra slayer damage really increases survivability (from leeching more life) and I kill stuff faster.

How many of us are running 100% DI suits for an extra weapon mod?
I run 100% DI suit. It isn't necessary, but I do prefer it because I like to run: HLD HML HSL balance slayer weapons against hard to hit bosses like Belfry. Most people don't run balance. To each his own.

Have people started to recraft a lot of weapons to run Onslaught or are you staying with AI?
I craft specific weapons for every encounter. If the boss has high resist all around, I'll make an AI weapon specifically for it.

Extra LMC or stam loss prevention?
Extra LMC.

Here's my sampire suit. I find that making an spread sheet is the easiest way to make it and guarantee you're hitting all your goals (note: I didn't fill in the resistances in my suit...got lazy)

 

[maji111]

Thanks for all the comprehensive replies so far. It is quite interesting to see the differences in playstyle and templates/suitting amongst us.

Personally, I've always built my samp around being as efficient as possible and aiming at removing as much RNG from situations as I can, so where others would potentially run 100 resist, I've always been running 110, for the mana vamps on certain bosses with higher eval. I've always been able to optimise kill speed on certain champs by using AI/CA, it just requires a certain rotation; the difference is minimal I accept. It's just around that time where I change up my suit a little and it's always good to see what everyone else is doing to try and add a new element to it.

The main thing I've been struggling with personally is whether to embark upon a mission to craft lots of new weapons and fully optimise Onslaught. As someone who enjoys removing the RNG from encounters, I am extremely satisfied with running 100% HML bladed staves and maintaining peace of mind. With regards to cameos; I don't ever think there will be a point where I value running 5 mod weapons without DI or slayer, unless my intent is to solo most encounters within the game. Having said that, I do believe adding a few legendaries into my suit, using a pair of tinker legs and cranking the SSI up to 35% is probably the next place to take my suit. The difference, although probably minimal to myself, would be smoother gameplay.

One question I admit I haven't tested thoroughly and have never had the answer to is with regards to antique jewellery. I've always assumed that it is more of an inconvenience than it is helpful due to the wear and tear. Is there anyone with experience of running such a setup and what would your opinions be on it?

 

[Tabin]

I usually have one antique ring with 7 useful mods and a crafted bracelet that I wear when I'm trying to solo high end bosses. For trash mobs, I remove the antique ring for a junk ring. It saves durability this way since it is sometimes really hard to replace a good 7 mod antique ring with HCI, DI, SSI, EP.

 

[maji111]

I usually have one antique ring with 7 useful mods and a crafted bracelet that I wear when I'm trying to solo high end bosses. For trash mobs, I remove the antique ring for a junk ring. It saves durability this way since it is sometimes really hard to replace a good 7 mod antique ring with HCI, DI, SSI, EP.

How do you find the durability loss on the antique? Is it quite severe or managable?

 

[Tabin]

How do you find the durability loss on the antique? Is it quite severe or managable?

I find it to be quite severe. Not only does it lose durability faster than any other piece of your armor....it also fails to repair about 50% of the time. Each attempt at repairing will lower the durability.

 

[maji111]

I had expected as much to be honest, I've only ever really dealt with Prized and such. I'm more about the convenience I guess than the power.

 

[DJAd]

Most people don't run balance. To each his own.

Balance as in the balanced mod to make it like a one handed weapon? That's because you are unable to parry or evade with "balanced" on a weapon.

 

[Tuan]

I've not figured out the exact (or even approximate) equation, but the amount of stamina damage from a hit of a given amount depends either on how close to your max HP you are, or to the number of HP you currently have. For a character with 150 HP, the difference is probably academic.

As far as how far over 180 stamina to go as a buffer, I think part of that comes down to your template and the weapon. If you run 6x metal armor, and VE, then you probably don't need much more than 185 stam OR HSL. Between the SR from VE and casting DF every 20 seconds, you'll stay pretty well topped up.

As I've said, I run the mixed suit of some metal some studded, so I'm not getting the full stamina protection. I run 50% HSL on my weapons though, so as long as I keep hitting, I only run about 190 stam.

I also run 80 resist, and carry greater agility and greater str and a 50% EP jewelry set, so I am curse proof even without needing apples or remove curse.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I've not figured out the exact (or even approximate) equation.

For Double Strike and AI including when the cost doubles, do you know if and where LMC stops being effective, in the 40-55 range I mean?

For example is there no point going over 53 because of the way it's rounded or anything like that?

I've been going 55 LMC on most of my rebuilds but wasn't sure if every point made a difference or if there's a cut off.

 

[maji111]

As far as I am aware from what testing I've done and read up on, LMC works in increments of 5%, so you aim for either 50 or 55%

I recall Corwin as having tested it if I am not mistaken.

 

[NuSair]

How many of us are running 100% DI suits for an extra weapon mod?
I run 100% DI suit. It isn't necessary, but I do prefer it because I like to run: HLD HML HSL balance slayer weapons against hard to hit bosses like Belfry. Most people don't run balance. To each his own.

Why use Mace and Shield if you are putting HLD on your weapon?

 

[NuSair]

For Double Strike and AI including when the cost doubles, do you know if and where LMC stops being effective, in the 40-55 range I mean?

For example is there no point going over 53 because of the way it's rounded or anything like that?

I've been going 55 LMC on most of my rebuilds but wasn't sure if every point made a difference or if there's a cut off.

It's been YEARS since I've done any testing on that, but from that I remember, UO drops all decimals / remainders (I forget what that is called in programming). So, if something cost you 12 mana to cast, it is going to cost
LMC % / Mana Savings / Final Cost
0 / 0 / 12
1 / 0 / 12
2 / 0 / 12
3 / 0 / 12
4 / 0 / 12
5 / 0 / 12
6 / 0 / 12
7 / 0 / 12
8 / 0 / 12
9 / 1 / 11
10 / 1 / 11
11 / 1 / 11
12 / 1 / 11
13 / 1 / 11
14 / 1 / 11
15 / 1 / 11
16 / 1 / 11
17 / 2 / 10
ect....

 

[Zalan]

Mace and Shield give you some nice stat boost to +10 Str and +5 dex

 

[NuSair]

you can get similar with dropped armor... and get more overall stats.

 

[James [W^H]]

Actual LMC is capped at 40 like it has always been. By this I mean, if you put 50 or 60 LMC on your character, it is still only 40 and will display 40 in your Health Bar. Additional inherited LMC from armor stacks on top of the 40. By this I mean, a plate armor piece will give you an additional 1 LMC per piece and studded armor will give you an additional 3 LMC per piece for a combined total of 5 pieces. This is how you can get 45 (plate) or 55 (studded) LMC suits now. This additional inherited LMC will display in your health bar.

Actual benefit from LMC only works in 5 LMC increments. By this I mean, any LMC between 40-44 will be the same reduction in mana cost. Likewise, 45-49 or 50-54 is the same.

Where this becomes critical, is if you have a real tight suit and knowing that the additional imbuing weight of a couple LMC points might not be of any benefit where as the additional weight could be put into another area. By this I mean, there is no benefit to imbue LMC where you end up with anything other than, 40, 45, 50 etc.

Thanks, Katrena

 

[Zalan]

Call me crazy, but I have 3 suits for my Sampire. I've got a max stat plate mail suit (that can be done with imbuing), 18 HPR and 15% Damage Eater (Reforging & Imbuing), and Stat LMC Studded Leather suit.

I like the HPR and Damage Eater the best, but it has its limits

 

[Tabin]

Why use Mace and Shield if you are putting HLD on your weapon?

I only put HLD on my weapon against certain encounters where you tend to miss 50% of the time. Notably: Belfry, Ozy, and Anon.

The HLD on weapon and Mace&Shield don't simply add up though. It is multiplied, so it doesn't sound quite as good but every little bit counts when you're up against a hard to hit boss.

65% HLD vs 30% HLD is a noticeable difference against them. Or you can run 50% HLD on your weapon and just use whatever helm you want. Just gotta make up the dex and str in other slots or drink pots.

 

[NuSair]

If you replace it with like a Legendary artifact, then chances are you are actually gaining stamina overall. Plus other mods. Right now, as I see it, the only reason to run M&S is to get an extra mod on your weapon. The stats are nice, but not THAT important (imo). As again, the dex/stam is probably higher overall if you switch. Even an imbued item with 8 SI is better than M&S in that regard. So, you may feel inclined to make up the 10 strength.

I just feel that if you are able to put HLD on your weapon, then really you can re-balance your suit to take advantage of that.

 

[Tuan]

For Double Strike and AI including when the cost doubles, do you know if and where LMC stops being effective, in the 40-55 range I mean?

For example is there no point going over 53 because of the way it's rounded or anything like that?

I've been going 55 LMC on most of my rebuilds but wasn't sure if every point made a difference or if there's a cut off.

Part of that answer involves whether or not you're getting the 300 skill point reduction, or just the 200, how much HML you have on the weapon, how much damage you're doing, how much mana you have in normal form, how much resist you're running, and how much you're going to be using mana for things other than specials.

The simplest answer is that 53 is plenty, because you get the same reduction as 55 because of rounding.

We know that the amount leeched is: damage done * HML% * RandomLeechValue, which is between 0 and .4, randomly. So, the average per swing is DamageDone*HML*.2. If you're running a 100% HML longsword, doing max damage, and chaining AIs, your average leech will be about 36 (assume avg damage of 180) (this is my basic setup). So, you need a little buffer to cover casting the occasional DF, and the occasional remove curse or evasion or whatnot, and maybe to fill you up if you get mana drained. In this case, 55 LMC is definitely overkill. I run 48, and probably have more than I need, given that I'm elf and have 80 mana, even though I don't get the 300 skill reduction because I have 0 bushido. With 48 LMC my AIs cost me 25 mana when doubled, so most of the time I'm back at my max mana after every hit - there's about a 70 chance that my leeched value totally restores the mana spent on the hit (remember, you gain a mana from regen in there too).

If you're running DS, you can get by with less LMC because you're doing more, smaller, hits, meaning you have some buffer against getting 2 low RandomLeechValues in a row. If you're running DS with something like a 2 handed axe, you're probably averaging 200+ damage per hit. You can probably get by with LMC that's down at maybe even 38 if you're getting the 300 reduction in special cost and if you have 70+ mana.

 

[Tabin]

If you replace it with like a Legendary artifact, then chances are you are actually gaining stamina overall. Plus other mods. Right now, as I see it, the only reason to run M&S is to get an extra mod on your weapon. The stats are nice, but not THAT important (imo). As again, the dex/stam is probably higher overall if you switch. Even an imbued item with 8 SI is better than M&S in that regard. So, you may feel inclined to make up the 10 strength.

I just feel that if you are able to put HLD on your weapon, then really you can re-balance your suit to take advantage of that.

How would you make up the +10 STR? Also, why do you need higher stamina? 177 (without pots) is plenty sufficient with 35% SSI.

It is definitely possible to rebalance the suit and end up with same stats but higher stamina. It would probably cost a lot more... Mine is a budget PvM suit which allows for easy replacement of items that wear after 3 months of heavy use.

 

[NuSair]

That 10 points of strength is 3% in damage increase and 5 hit points. Generally, I'd rather have the stamina and other mods (like MR, damage eater, ect)

 

[Sqrlking]

... UO drops all decimals / remainders (I forget what that is called in programming) .

That would be floor()