Status Check on the Third Party Cheat Detection

[Llewen]

It has been several months now since it was announced that third party cheat detection is live on the production shards, and the devs are "weeding out false positives". I think I've been patient, but I'm starting to lose patience over this.

The situation with regard to cheating has been better lately. At least some of those who were clearly using scripts in pvp (which is where I see cheating most clearly), appear to have stopped using them because of the threat of third party cheat detection, but there are at least a few who haven't, and the longer this stage of "weeding out the false positives" goes on, the more likely it is that many of those who stopped using third party cheats will start using them again, as they begin to assume that all this talk of third party cheat detection was just that, talk.

I was forcefully reminded of this again last night. There is a guy on my shard, let's call him "the best pvp'r on the shard", or "tbpots" for short, that I can never beat. He is the only one on my shard that I can never beat one on one. I'm not saying I am the second best pvp'r on my shard, because there are plenty that beat me more often than I beat them, but this is the only guy that beats me consistently all the time.

Well all the time, except for twice. Once was last night. Strangely enough the two times I beat him was shortly after a client patch. UO Assist had been updated and was working properly both times, so it wasn't that, but oddly enough, "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" had not been updated.

Now before someone starts offering all of the excuses that could be offered for this guy. I have a friend I trust completely, one of the few in UO that I do trust, that has been in Vent with him, and has received specific instructions from him on what cheats to use, and including which specific scripts to use with "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named", and how to set them up "properly".

Oddly enough, both times I beat him when "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" was not working, it wasn't even close. I obliterated him in under ten seconds both times. Maybe it's a sign of weakness on my part, but I'm tired of being beaten by cheaters who get most of their "skill" from third party cheats, and illegal scripts. I find it incredibly annoying that "tbpots" wins because he cheats, and not because he is smarter, or more skilled than anyone else. He wins because he has no principles, and no shame.

So my question is, what is the status of the third party cheat detection, and when are we going to start seeing action taken against cheaters? I'm tired of waiting.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Either you're using a scarecrow tactics or you're simply oblivious to the truth.

The program that shall not be named is slow reacting and will never be better in PvP against a good PvPer, especially one that has Naga Razor mouse, G19s, N52s or god knows what else hardware help.

The very fact that you can't beat him either shows you're a horrible PvP'er or he's not using that program at all.

Now of course, he could be using the EC cheat program, which uses a faster packet pushing technique that makes it much faster than the other old CC program. You can even get an accelerator program for it.

I find it really odd that you consistently wants to gloss over EC cheats and go only for CC cheats, and the sad thing is that the devs might be doing the same mistake, creating a Lineage 2 situation where taking out the lesser cheats make the high end cheats flurish. Its very suspicious...are you using the EC cheats yourself and trying to push the attention away from you to the CC? hmmmm?

Honestly if you don't like it, then quit...the people who have quit over this announcement already were great people and good players, so I'd much rather you few whiners here on stratics just quit and let the rest of us have fun and enjoy the game.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Honestly if you don't like it, then quit...the people who have quit over this announcement already were great people and good players, so I'd much rather you few whiners here on stratics just quit and let the rest of us have fun and enjoy the game.

Fortunately, that's not your call.

 

[GarthGrey]

The simple fact that you monitor the websight makes be doubt a single word you're saying. I know I know, you go there to "make sure no one else is currently cheating"...whatever dude.

 

[MalagAste]

I don't like the cheating but I'm not going to quit over it.

I'll say this ..... I recall when they did a "mass" banning before... after the certain mess up with something anyway... I recall it took them a very long time from when something occurred to when they banned dozens of folk.

Now we are talking about 3rd party program use. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this is FAR bigger issue than the other one that lead to a huge banning, so my guess is it's going to take them a very long time to collect the data, analyze it as to who is using it, who's abusing it, what is the impact, and then decide exactly how to handle it.

Personally I wish they would see who's using it for what, take all those using it to "script skill and reset all their characters to "newb" level, see who's using it to script getting gold and resources and delete all their stuff, see who's using it to cheat in PvP and give their characters a permanent jail time, banning their accounts and putting an npc named for them in a jail somewhere in Fel.

Then send each of them an email telling them why the action was taken against their account.

And then after they do all that, if a person "re-offends" a second time ban the accounts. If they are "caught" creating a new account and continue to "re-offend" ban their IP and Credit Cards.

Though my "concern" about UO lies more in what I regard as the highest offenders which honestly seem to get away with everything and those are the dupers. And as far as I know they don't yet have a thing to detect them. And they are followed closely by the scammers and hackers who get away with far more and have caused more people to quit than anyone else except EA themselves.

 

[HD2300]

...Strangely enough the two times I beat him was shortly after a client patch. UO Assist had been updated and was working properly both times, so it wasn't that, but oddly enough, "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" had not been updated.

Everyone knows whenever there is a patch "that program" does not work for a couple of days. Why dont they release a patch every 2 days????

 

[popps]

I too would like to know what is the status of the anti-script, anti-hack, anti-cheat detection.

Can we please at least have it by Ultima Online's 13th birthday ?

 

[Llewen]

Either you're using a scarecrow tactics or you're simply oblivious to the truth.

Yep that common internet debating technique of finding a forum with a large field of corn and standing in the middle of it, flapping your arms - absolutely devastating...

The program that shall not be named is slow reacting and will never be better in PvP against a good PvPer, especially one that has Naga Razor mouse, G19s, N52s or god knows what else hardware help.

What I know is what I see. This guy clearly uses scripts when he pvp's, and when "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" is working, he's "the best pvp'r on the shard" with the character he uses the scripts on. He uses them both offensively and defensively, and even goes so far as to insert chat messages into them (local chat - and no they aren't macros because he doesn't use them when "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" is down).

He has three characters that he uses regularly in pvp, an archer, a dexxer, and a mage, and as far as I know only uses scripts on the dexxer, which is, oddly enough the one I can't beat, unless of course "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" happens to be down. I'm certain he uses cheats on the other characters as well, but the dexxer is the only one that I am certain he uses scripts on.

The very fact that you can't beat him either shows you're a horrible PvP'er or he's not using that program at all.

As for whether I am a "horrible PvP'er", that isn't for me to judge. I do know I'm fairly successful with my favourite template, and as for him using "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named", I could probably get a sworn legally valid affidavit to that effect from my friend, if I felt inclined to go that far. Which is far more than you can do to substantiate your vague accusations directed at me.

Now of course, he could be using the EC cheat program, which uses a faster packet pushing technique that makes it much faster than the other old CC program. You can even get an accelerator program for it.

I find it really odd that you consistently wants to gloss over EC cheats and go only for CC cheats, and the sad thing is that the devs might be doing the same mistake, creating a Lineage 2 situation where taking out the lesser cheats make the high end cheats flurish. Its very suspicious...are you using the EC cheats yourself and trying to push the attention away from you to the CC? hmmmm?

I know of one cheat for the EC. I already reported it to the devs several weeks ago. It is a pretty basic cheat with very limited functionality that offers no advantage in pvp. I use the EC, I had no problem beating him last night when "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" was down. You can draw your own conclusions. I did have some issues yesterday with the perfectly legal UI mod that I use, due to the patch. But once I figured out how to get around that, it didn't affect my game play at all.

 

[Flutter]

I think it's a whole "smoke meets butt" situation.

 

[Llewen]

The simple fact that you monitor the websight makes be doubt a single word you're saying. I know I know, you go there to "make sure no one else is currently cheating"...whatever dude.

Again, vague, baseless accusations. I go there to make sure that when I draw conclusions, that they are the right ones. I'm sure the devs have gone there many times, and have actually downloaded and tested "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named", which is far more than I have done, for the same basic reasons. I suppose that means they cheat as well does it?

What I do is go there after a patch and see if the program is down, and see if any of the pvp'rs I fight show any evidence that they aren't playing up to their usual standards as a result. I also read threads, and I have looked at the code for scripts. Again, to have some idea of what I am talking about when I talk about scripting. I've never actually used "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named", or even downloaded it for that matter.

Most of the pvp'rs that use scripts simply don't play when "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" is down. This guy apparently believes that because he is such a successful cheater, he actually has some real skill to go along with it. Based on the two fights I've had with him when "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" is down, he is extremely mediocre.

And for the record, it actually makes me happy when I see skilled pvp'rs remain skilled when "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" is down - even the ones that regularly clean my clock.

 

[Llewen]

I'll say this ..... I recall when they did a "mass" banning before... after the certain mess up with something anyway... I recall it took them a very long time from when something occurred to when they banned dozens of folk.

Now we are talking about 3rd party program use. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this is FAR bigger issue than the other one that lead to a huge banning, so my guess is it's going to take them a very long time to collect the data, analyze it as to who is using it, who's abusing it, what is the impact, and then decide exactly how to handle it.

I expect you are right about this. The problem is that in the past this approach hasn't really been all that successful. There were some long lasting benefits to the in game economy from at least one of those actions, but 99.9% of the cheaters went back to business as usual shortly after all of those actions.

If they are going to change the situation in game radically and permanently, they need to take that major action, and follow it up with a consistent enforcement of the TOS. I'm not optimistic that this is going to happen, but that is what needs to happen if the culture of cheating that exists in UO is going to be permanently altered.

 

[Splup]

No matter who is good PvP:r and Who's not, which script is fast and which is not, the point is, People want to know the status on Third Party Detection. When will it kick in?

Does it effect Speed hackers?

Now, cut the crap about who cheats and who doesn't and are scripts problem in PvP. Atleast speed hack freaking is a problem, or does someone disagree with that too?

 

[Llewen]

Atleast speed hack freaking is a problem, or does someone disagree with that too?

I agree with what you are saying in general, but I actually do disagree with this. I've said this many times, but in the almost a year now since I've been back, which includes hundreds of hours of pvp, I have yet to see anyone move faster than I do, and I don't speed hack.

I can outrun just about everyone on my shard, but not because I move any faster. When we are running in a straight line with no obstacles, everyone that I've seen that isn't lagging, moves at the same speed. But because of the EC's auto evade code I rarely get stuck on objects, and because I have an excellent ISP, combined with many other factors I won't get into right now (none of them having anything to do with cheating), it seems that just about the only times I ever lag is when there is server issue and everyone else is lagging as well.

 

[dukarlo]

We just got done fighting the usual array of speedy trash. The reality is that absolutely nothing has been done in reguards to cheating and Im still skeptical that anything will be done. I get the feeling this latest publish is just a smokescreen of new shinies to drown out the anti speedhack crowd. The saddest part about it is that much of many peoples pvp nowadays revovles around how they use thier speedhacks. Pvp isnt simply all about gear and player skills, a big part of it is how fast one can run on and off screen with spells and specials precast and how many times can one run off screen quicker than they should be able to in order to avoid death time and time again.

 

[Llewen]

The simple fact that you monitor the websight makes be doubt a single word you're saying. I know I know, you go there to "make sure no one else is currently cheating"...whatever dude.

And while we're on the topic. This is something that typically happens to "whistle blowers". Those who don't like what they have to say will attempt to ruin their reputations. You, LC and many others have consistently attempted to do this to me.

My main character's name is Llewen Faerlyght on Catskills. I'm pretty easy to find, I'm often at Yew gate in the early evenings. If you think I'm a cheater, please, hunt me down and page on me. Nothing would make me happier. (ok, that's a lie, but it would make me happy... )

 

[dukarlo]

I agree with what you are saying in general, but I actually do disagree with this. I've said this many times, but in the almost a year now since I've been back, which includes hundreds of hours of pvp, I have yet to see anyone move faster than I do, and I don't speed hack.

I can outrun just about everyone on my shard, but not because I move any faster. When we are running in a straight line with no obstacles, everyone that I've seen that isn't lagging, moves at the same speed. But because of the EC's auto evade code I rarely get stuck on objects, and because I have an excellent ISP, combined with many other factors I won't get into right now (none of them having anything to do with cheating), it seems that just about the only times I ever lag is when there is server issue and everyone else is lagging as well.

Its not strait lines that are the problem. Whatever movement caps are in place only cap speed over distance. Within certain ranges players skip around like mad. Its why it appears dexxers hit u from 5 tiles away and why their first steps when running away makes them appear to dissapear. How about the deathstiker that appears to be 5 tiles away and all off a sudden the DS sound goes off. My computer is fine and my conn are fine. You tube has had demonstrations of people speedhacking and its spot on.

 

[Llewen]

Its not strait lines that are the problem. Whatever movement caps are in place only cap speed over distance. Within certain ranges players skip around like mad. Its why it appears dexxers hit u from 5 tiles away and why their first steps when running away makes them appear to dissapear. How about the deathstiker that appears to be 5 tiles away and all off a sudden the DS sound goes off. My computer is fine and my conn are fine. You tube has had demonstrations of people speedhacking and its spot on.

Ok, you could be right about this. I have no way of measuring that objectively, so there is no way I would know. I do know however that people say I "skip around" as well, and I don't use a speed hack.

 

[chuckoatl]

speed hacks are the easiest fix in the world. Set everyones ping at 150ms......... fixxed

 

[Luke Carjacker]

Its not strait lines that are the problem. Whatever movement caps are in place only cap speed over distance. Within certain ranges players skip around like mad. Its why it appears dexxers hit u from 5 tiles away and why their first steps when running away makes them appear to dissapear. How about the deathstiker that appears to be 5 tiles away and all off a sudden the DS sound goes off. My computer is fine and my conn are fine. You tube has had demonstrations of people speedhacking and its spot on.

Yes, I was going to type this exactly - glad I read to the end of the post before typing. Speedhacking doesn't affect how fast you run in a straight line. Speedhackers appear to just bounce around the screen, and their movements can sometimes lag non-speedhackers in the area. My computer and connection are good these days as well, in fact I pretty darn happy with my setup right now after a UO lifetime of terrible connections.

To me, it's not any specific activity or action that identifies a speedhacker (bouncing around the screen, disappearing, striking from far away, etc.). It's more of a comparison with everything else you observe in the game on a regular basis.

Like in RL, if a car drives by you and you have to guess it's speed, you might not know if it's going 40mph or 60mph. However if you're familiar with the road, know that the speed limit is 45, observe a hundred cars drive by at 45mph, and all of a sudden one speeds through at 80, it will be totally obvious. In game, when you fight a bunch of different people and establish a feel for how everything is supposed to move, you'll definitely notice when someone moves totally differently.

 

[Lady Storm]

Ok ok ok ok you all have good points to a point.

Speedhacking has been on game forever and I for one have seen it and had it effect my game play.
Good people have left the game due to its use, and no it was not due to its use in pvp. But I did see one thing you all are not looking at that was said. Many are using the top of the line fastest equipment for this kind of play. Scripts written to hit, run, drink pots, and every other method to beat the crap out of another player in pking /pvp. Speedhacking isnt the only force to recon with in this catagory, I know so many use alot of others to get the job done PDQ.

This is not skill.

This is knowing the right program faults and defalts to use in a way that in my book I consider cheating.
Not everyone knows of this stuff, hell year one 99% of the uo population had no clue of this and was why they quit the game after a devastating run by a user who also might** have used the afore mentioned program too.
**might - haha did and many know it!

Look I liked uoloop, still do, and find no harm in its use when its used right for mondain chores. People who are mainly crafters use it from pot/keg filling to scribing multi scrolls, its not dangerous to the game. But it took 1 IDIOT to ruin it for others using it to boost his or her duping/hacking/cheating.
I agree the time UO is taking to show some sort of progress for you is slow as molassis but I also see their point as well. Get it right the first time! you will all scream if it finds you in violation when you clearly haven done nothing to warrent it. So keep your cool and wait.

Soon enough the punishments will be figured out for those in deep violations but be fore warned it might not be the punishment you want. We have a very low population can we take 50% of the factions/pvp'rs gone perma ban??

What of the poor person who just makes scrolls or pots on lesser prgms ?? you want to see them gone too?
Look in my opinion this is coming way too late, 10 years too late infact.

 

[Llewen]

Soon enough the punishments will be figured out for those in deep violations but be fore warned it might not be the punishment you want. We have a very low population can we take 50% of the factions/pvp'rs gone perma ban??

What of the poor person who just makes scrolls or pots on lesser prgms ?? you want to see them gone too?
Look in my opinion this is coming way too late, 10 years too late infact.

Well I think part of this is what is going on. From what I gather they aren't targeting the programs themselves, they are targeting specific scripts. I have no idea how they would be doing this, and obviously they aren't going to tell us. But I expect you have hit on at least part of the reason why this is taking so long.

 

[Old Man of UO]

speed hacks are the easiest fix in the world. Set everyones ping at 150ms......... fixxed

Ooo... that would cut the pings on my DSL by almost a third! Where do I sign up?

 

[Storm]

Ooo... that would cutr the pings on my DSL by almost a third! Where do I sign up?

no kidding lately I am pinging at 200ms and its either ea or the hop before so 150 would be a improvement

 

[popps]

Well I think part of this is what is going on. From what I gather they aren't targeting the programs themselves, they are targeting specific scripts. I have no idea how they would be doing this, and obviously they aren't going to tell us. But I expect you have hit on at least part of the reason why this is taking so long.

What do you mean "targeting specific scripts" ??

Some scripts will be OK to use and some not ?

Will they announce which scripts players will be allowed to use and which scripts they will not be allowed to use ??

Where did they say this ? Any post or official announcement anywhere ?

My understanding was that ALL scripting was going to go, not only specific scripts.......

 

[Lord Chaos]

Scripts written to hit, run, drink pots, and every other method to beat the crap out of another player in pking /pvp. Speedhacking isnt the only force to recon with in this catagory

Two errors here again.

1. Speedhacking isn't done through scripting, its through other programs/hardware.

2. Regular non-EC scripts just cannot beat an experienced PvP'er, especially one that has the hardware to assist (Gaming mice, keyboards, etc.)

I know, because I know a cheater in our guild that PvPs and uses the program that shall not be named" and is very good at it, he just cannot beat another guildie who doesn't use cheats, but has advanced gaming hardware instead. Also scripts are not that hard to deadlock at times.

Several PvP'ers have also stated here on this board that they have no problem beating scripters...what they have a problem with are speedhackers and in the past the programs that could break game mechanics.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Yep that common internet debating technique of finding a forum with a large field of corn and standing in the middle of it, flapping your arms - absolutely devastating...

No, its a common tactics, to build a scarecrow to scare people away from the field. Aka. you scaring people with CC scripts.

What I know is what I see. This guy clearly uses scripts when he pvp's, and when "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" is working, he's "the best pvp'r on the shard" with the character he uses the scripts on. He uses them both offensively and defensively, and even goes so far as to insert chat messages into them (local chat - and no they aren't macros because he doesn't use them when "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" is down).

Thats just not possible...he would not be able to beat an experienced PvP'er with proper gaming hardware, its simply not possible at all. The only one that can even come remotely close to it is the EC cheat, which is much faster than the slower CC cheats.

He has three characters that he uses regularly in pvp, an archer, a dexxer, and a mage, and as far as I know only uses scripts on the dexxer, which is, oddly enough the one I can't beat, unless of course "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" happens to be down. I'm certain he uses cheats on the other characters as well, but the dexxer is the only one that I am certain he uses scripts on.

That program doesn't go down, its merely missing an update to current patch, but since last patch was not mandatory, then he could still use the program, unless he was some n00b. So honestly he's either using something else or you're still a poor PvP'er

As for whether I am a "horrible PvP'er", that isn't for me to judge. I do know I'm fairly successful with my favourite template, and as for him using "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named", I could probably get a sworn legally valid affidavit to that effect from my friend, if I felt inclined to go that far. Which is far more than you can do to substantiate your vague accusations directed at me.

So your friend is the one cheating?

I can substantiate it quite a fair bit, as I know PvPers and play with PvP'ers who knows all the various programs and scripts out there.

I know of one cheat for the EC. I already reported it to the devs several weeks ago. It is a pretty basic cheat with very limited functionality that offers no advantage in pvp. I use the EC, I had no problem beating him last night when "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" was down. You can draw your own conclusions. I did have some issues yesterday with the perfectly legal UI mod that I use, due to the patch. But once I figured out how to get around that, it didn't affect my game play at all.

Except most PvP'ers and scripters don't have autopatch on their client, so they would be unaffected, as the patch wasn't a mandatory one.

 

[Llewen]

2. Regular non-EC scripts just cannot beat an experienced PvP'er, especially one that has the hardware to assist (Gaming mice, keyboards, etc.)

You are so full of it, your eyes are brown... As someone posted further up the thread, it's a very good thing you aren't running the show, and it's also a good thing that so much of what you say is so completely and clearly ridiculous that there is very little chance anyone who reads this forum, who actually does understand these things, will ever pay attention to a word you write.

I think I'll just go back to my official Enhanced Client cheat, you know the vanilla one with no actual cheats installed, and have some more fun...

 

[roninaxx]

well this has turned into a back and forth rant about pvp scripts and wandered of the topic.
But when are we going to hear /see cheat detection action or just the fact stated "uo would close to many accounts so everyone lookout for your self. we are going to ignore it or include it with you next upgrade for 19.99.

 

[HD2300]

well this has turned into a back and forth rant about pvp scripts and wandered of the topic.
But when are we going to hear /see cheat detection action or just the fact stated "uo would close to many accounts so everyone lookout for your self. we are going to ignore it or include it with you next upgrade for 19.99.

Unfortunately the posters on these forums are the hardcore, and that includes cheaters and sell out profiteers, who astroturf and scaremonger in order to continue cheating and making a living off UO. You see that in 3rd party cheat detection, classic shard, and RMT threads.

 

[LadyKeroOfAtl]

What I do is go there after a patch and see if the program is down, and see if any of the pvp'rs I fight show any evidence that they aren't playing up to their usual standards as a result.

I wish I had that much free time

Oh and btw.. some times people just lag this isn't proof of cheating.

Do I hate scripts? very much, but I prefer to enjoy my time in game rather then stalk a website then stalk players.

 

[thenow]

Unfortunately the posters on these forums are the hardcore, and that includes cheaters and sell out profiteers, who astroturf and scaremonger in order to continue cheating and making a living off UO. You see that in 3rd party cheat detection, classic shard, and RMT threads.

QFT.
In tens years of playing this game this is probably the best expressed post I've ever read about UO.

Devs any update on the detection programs????

 

[Lord Chaos]

You are so full of it, your eyes are brown...

Ah yes, this is a true indicator that you're either delusional for the sake of being argumentative with me or you have a more nefarious motive.

You don't have any practical experience in seeing how a CC script works in PvP, I have, as I've been in the same room with people using it. (most at a LAN party here)

It works well, if you're not a person who can button twitch, it allows a semi evening of the play level. But its just entirely too predictable and slower reacting that it could really never beat an experienced PvPer who knows what they're doing, because all it does is push buttons for you automatically in a sense and it just can't do that with human reaction speed, nor with the human thought needed to judge the situation and what to use where in intelligent combinations.

I have no idea why you keep downplaying EC cheats...but its highly suspicious.

 

[Llewen]

I wish I had that much free time

Oh and btw.. some times people just lag this isn't proof of cheating.

It takes all of ten seconds for me to check the site for "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" and see if it's down.

And I have never said anywhere that lagging is proof of cheating. I understand what you are saying, but that isn't how I judge whether another player is playing "up to their normal standards".

It works well, if you're not a person who can button twitch, it allows a semi evening of the play level. But its just entirely too predictable and slower reacting that it could really never beat an experienced PvPer who knows what they're doing, because all it does is push buttons for you automatically in a sense and it just can't do that with human reaction speed, nor with the human thought needed to judge the situation and what to use where in intelligent combinations.

There are scripts, and there are scripts. There are simple scripts, and there are complex scripts. There are badly written, buggy scripts, and there are well written, finely tuned scripts. If you had as much experience with scripts as you claim to, and I'm sure you do, and more besides, you would know this. As usual, you mix a good dose of the truth in with the obfuscation and misdirection.

A well written script will react faster than a human player can, and a well written script won't be easy to break down. And the really big advantage that a well written script has is that it is consistent. It doesn't get distracted trying to kill another player, it will always chug that pot for you, or use that bandage when your health reaches a certain level, no matter what else is going on.

Of course a script can't fight your entire battle for you. But it can handle a lot of the little details, like healing with pots and bandages, and using consumables, that require less tactical thinking. That's the reason why "tbpots" clearly uses scripts on his dexxer, but not on his mage. I don't think he uses them on his archer either, but I'm not 100% sure about that.

That program doesn't go down, its merely missing an update to current patch, but since last patch was not mandatory, then he could still use the program, unless he was some n00b. So honestly he's either using something else or you're still a poor PvP'er

Except most PvP'ers and scripters don't have autopatch on their client, so they would be unaffected, as the patch wasn't a mandatory one.

And as usual, again, the truth mixed in with the obfuscation and misdirection. You are right, most cheaters start the client directly, and only use the patcher when there is a required update, or when all their cheats have been updated. "tbpots" however clearly didn't do this. My guess is he actually believes he is as good as his cheats make him appear to be, so he didn't bother waiting until "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" was updated.

I'm guessing he regretted that decision a few short seconds after he attacked me. Not only that, but he attacked me while I was talking to an EM, so I'm guessing he figured I'd be an easy kill. Oddly enough I haven't seen him since, and the last I checked "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" hadn't been updated either. I'm sure he'll make an appearance again once "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" has been updated.

Ah yes, this is a true indicator that you're either delusional for the sake of being argumentative with me or you have a more nefarious motive.

I have no idea why you keep downplaying EC cheats...but its highly suspicious.

Yes, and I understand that you are trying to destroy my reputation. You, along with a number of other people. Guess what? It isn't working. And it's not going to. As I already posted:

Primary Character Name: Llewen Faerlyght
Shard: Catskills

I'm well known, and easy to find. If you think I cheat, please come and page on me. In fact, if you contact me (ICQ: 11893766) I'll arrange to meet you somewhere so you can target my character easily when you page. And if you don't think paging a GM will do any good feel free to send a pm to Mesanna to warn the devs about me, so that they can look for me when they collate the data from the third party cheat detection and make an example of me.

And if you want to make sure you have a good idea of the cheats I use before you page on me or send Mesanna a pm, I'm often at Yew gate in the evenings, I don't change the way I play to match the situation. I move at the same speed, and in the same way, no matter where I am, whether it's Luna, Yew gate, or at a spawn. You should be able to get some good FRAPs footage of me to post on YouTube and provide the link for when you pm Mesanna, if that's what you wish to do.

 

[Garm The Green]

i dont care either way as 3rd PP din't affect me. Duping does however

Llewen, I believe your acting with integrity and no cheater, and everyone else "doth protest too much"....

Also, i don't think devs will comment and reveal the surprise that is coming... if it comes. It'd be like warning somebody they were to have a drugs test, and giving them time to detox first.

 

[popps]

well this has turned into a back and forth rant about pvp scripts and wandered of the topic.
But when are we going to hear /see cheat detection action or just the fact stated "uo would close to many accounts so everyone lookout for your self. we are going to ignore it or include it with you next upgrade for 19.99.

I don't know......

What I would certainly like to know is whether the anti-cheat code will detect ALL scripts and cheats or only some of them.

I cannot possibly understand why the anti-cheat would want to make a distinction but in such a case, I would like to know why of the distinction.......

 

[popps]

Also, i don't think devs will comment and reveal the surprise that is coming... if it comes. It'd be like warning somebody they were to have a drugs test, and giving them time to detox first.

That is my hope......... that they are currently monitoring players and gathering data on the use of scripts and hacks and about those who really use them too much and too often to then deal with them and those accounts.

I guess we need to wait and see.......

 

[Lord Chaos]

I cannot possibly understand why the anti-cheat would want to make a distinction but in such a case, I would like to know why of the distinction.......

Perhaps because they would like to keep their playerbase to a sustainable level.

 

[Llewen]

What I would certainly like to know is whether the anti-cheat code will detect ALL scripts and cheats or only some of them.

I cannot possibly understand why the anti-cheat would want to make a distinction but in such a case, I would like to know why of the distinction.......

From the May 2010 Producer's Letter:

Also, please know UO Assist and Mapper are not in jeopardy. We are going after very specific scripts.

Based on that I'd say that even "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" is also not in jeopardy. I would even hazard a guess that the vendor search sites are not in jeopardy. I don't know exactly what they are looking for, but I'm guessing they are trying not to act against any truly useful and harmless functionality, even if it is technically illegal.

And unfortunately it wouldn't surprise me as well that they have discovered the problem is so huge that if they were to move against all the accounts making use of "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named", they would end up taking action against more than half of their subscription base. That's just a guess on my part, but I fear it is a well founded guess.

So when it comes to that, I'm afraid that LC may well be right.

Having said that if you are using "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" you should probably have stopped by now. I clearly don't speak for the devs and have no idea what their actual plans are. So I could easily be completely wrong. So if you are using "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named" please don't continue to use it based on what I have posted, I'm just guessing.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Well, my foremost goal is really for the devs to have as clear and as full a picture of the situation as possible. And with that, realize that the situation isn't just black and white "hey, we can be WoW 12 years too late".

That is the purpose of many of my statements. Like that there are more cheats than they might immediately be aware of, some of them more hidden than other. Like the EC cheat I mentioned is a hidden invite only site and heck, I only know about it because a clan member is a high up member of the illegal program communities or I'd be oblivious of its existence too.

Also, I want the devs to be aware of that most people have stopped using most of the cheats after the announcement and have gone mostly inactive in playing and that just because a person cheats, doesn't mean they cheat on all chars all the time. Heck another clannie only used cheats to train characters and never again afterwards, so he'd register as a non-cheater.

Also they can't detect the invisible cheats like the search sites or other general function cheats. Keep in mind too, that as per the rules and dev statements, using the search sites is cheating, its just not detectable.

 

[popps]

Like the EC cheat I mentioned is a hidden invite only site and heck, I only know about it because a clan member is a high up member of the illegal program communities or I'd be oblivious of its existence too.

I am totally lost here. I have no clue what you are talking about.........

 

[Lord Chaos]

*rollseyes*

 

[Old Man of UO]

... Also they can't detect the invisible cheats like the search sites or other general function cheats. Keep in mind too, that as per the rules and dev statements, using the search sites is cheating, its just not detectable.

Really? You have a link to a posting where a Developer said it was cheating using search sites? Only gathering of the information using a bot is cheating, not using the site unless you are doing a RMT.

My old guild had a website where we could post items for Take/Trade or Sale. We could quickly search to see who had what for sale, and then contact them for the transaction. Are you telling me you consider that cheating?

 

[Splup]

Well most of the program users would quit Using the program if they had one 24h ban or warning.

Very few of em would prolly quit.

The searchsite thing is another thing. Many people, like myself, have gotten used to them now. Searchsites going down permanently would make me bit frustrated atleast, and prolly many others.

But claiming that most of the prog users would quit playing UO cause of cheat detection is pretty far from the truth imho.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Well most of the program users would quit Using the program if they had one 24h ban or warning.

Thats fairly unlikely. That has never worked in other games, don't see why it would work like that in UO, especially since people are used to it.

But claiming that most of the prog users would quit playing UO cause of cheat detection is pretty far from the truth imho.

Most I know of have either already quit or will quit, and seeing the experiences from the other games, its likely that this will be a trend.

You'd see people who are less dependent on the scripts or cheats stay around, as they have avenues to play normally, how many that will be, is anyones guess.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Really? You have a link to a posting where a Developer said it was cheating using search sites? Only gathering of the information using a bot is cheating, not using the site unless you are doing a RMT.

They quite clearly stated that using services that uses 3rd party cheats is against the rules. That was stated during the whole champ spawn monitoring site debacle a good while back.

Oh and RMT is not against the UO Rules.

My old guild had a website where we could post items for Take/Trade or Sale. We could quickly search to see who had what for sale, and then contact them for the transaction. Are you telling me you consider that cheating?

Not if the information was gained normally and not through 3rd party cheating.

 

[Old Man of UO]

They quite clearly stated that using services that uses 3rd party cheats is against the rules. That was stated during the whole champ spawn monitoring site debacle a good while back.

I didn't think you could come up with a link to back your made up assertion.

Using search sites is not against the ROC/TOS, using a bot to collect that information is. There are other ways to collect information than just with bots, but that wouldn't fit your made up "facts" would it.

 

[Llewen]

Well, my foremost goal is really for the devs to have as clear and as full a picture of the situation as possible.

Well if that really is your goal, then you might want to send Mesanna the link to that site, and even better, engage in some espionage, get a copy of the app, and arrange to send the devs a copy. My guess is you won't do that, but if you really are interested in providing the devs with "as clear and as full a picture of the situation as possible", then I would think that would be somethig you would be willing to do.

 

[UOKaiser]

Unfortunately the posters on these forums are the hardcore, and that includes cheaters and sell out profiteers, who astroturf and scaremonger in order to continue cheating and making a living off UO. You see that in 3rd party cheat detection, classic shard, and RMT threads.

Make a living of UO lol. Sorry thats funny when I even think about it in a business prospective. Now WOW there you can make a living with millions of customers and economy that still is functioning but UO hah. If I was going to make a fail company to watch it collapse and live in my mothers basement Uo would be on that list.

 

[UOKaiser]

Everyone knows whenever there is a patch "that program" does not work for a couple of days. Why dont they release a patch every 2 days????

Because the method of changing the program will be released and everyone would be able to patch there program to the latest version in minutes. Free for the people but time and money and customers complaining of I can't patch, my uoassit is not working,something went wrong,why is my Uo like this,EA will need to pay forthe extra bandwith occuring for downloads,Customer service lines will be needed to be added,etc...

 

[ingsmsico]

I haven't been around in a few months but I'm not surprised you guys are still creating these threads and having the same meaningless conversation that's been going on for years.

Below is the post by the creator of the program that shall not be named "penned" after EA announced Punkbuster way back in 2006. It is still relevant today. Give it a good thoughtful read.

Wed Aug 02, 2006 15:17 Post subject: Cheffe's official statement concerning ****** and PunkBuster Reply with quote
This is my official statement concerning EA's recent announcements about including PunkBuster to fight scripting.

To summarize it, I think they're using PB as a scare tactic, to annouce that they'll not tolerate *** any further without needing a ban wave in which they'd lose customers.

Obviously, they've been able to detect *** before and it's not hard to smuggle something into the client that detects ***. I can't check every single patch for such things and even if I could I would miss something sooner or later.

So it's quite certain that they know exactly how many *** users are out there, not just from the number of registered users on our boards but because they used some sort of detection in the past and logged everything. When they saw how many people were using scripts they knew they couldn't just ban everyone because of the financial repercussions. But they couldn't admit to being able to find *** users either, because the other part of the community would demand that all "cheaters" get banned. And because they were understaffed anyway they probably ignored the problem for a while and let the GMs deal with it as best as they could.

Nowadays, with heaps of items and gold being sold on Ebay and the economy going downwards, they see that they have to do something. Not against the casual scripters, but against the few who abuse the system to farm billions of gold and items. We've seen all this happen before on scripting-friendly freeshards that had to ban *** for that reason.

So EA had to find a way of telling people that they will be able to detect "cheaters" without admitting that they were able to do just that all along. And they're using the name of a renown company, a 3rd party, to achieve this.

It's quite a smart move, actually. First, you announce that you'll use PunkBuster to get the rumors started. Then you'll make a beta phase where you show the scripters that they can be detected without having to ban them (it's only testing after all). When the system goes active, even if the *** developers manage to keep ****** hidden from PunkBuster for a while, most users will be too scared to use it anymore. And some of the few that still do could be banned as a deterrent.

Using PB also eliminates the problem of telling people they'll be spied upon. Some users already know PunkBuster and probably have it already on their system. So EA won't have to deal with privacy concerns either because they can refer to Even Balance.

Actually, PunkBuster can only find cheating tools that are known. It's designed to fight those tools used by "kiddies" to cheat in FPS games. So it does not actually attack the creation of cheating tools but their distribution process. If I were to make my own, completely different version of ***, there would be no way how they could detect that because the PB system just doesn't work that way. But if a tool is distributed on the internet, they can grab it and create detection fingerprints.

Even if I were to devise some countermeasures, they could simply grab *** again and try to find a way around that. Because PB is a client/server system, they can update their software anytime. We've seen all that happen with World of Warcraft and ******** (www.********.net), a macroing system similar to ***. The difference between UO and WoW is that Blizzard was a lot better prepared for all that because they came 8 years later than UO and had time to learn from the mistakes of others. They had a zero-tolerance ban policy from the start and were willing to fight in court for their right to scan users harddrives for 3rd party tools (and won).

******** went down not because they couldn't devise cloaking measurements, but because each time the detection system got around that, Blizzard silently logged all users and banned them a week later. Which is exactly what EA couldn't do because there were already too many people using ******.

The whole PB thing is only a scare tactic and it's also about shooting with cannons at sparrows. They don't need PunkBuster for detecting ****** which they can do themselves easily enough. In fact, I could come up with really simple code to detect *** in say... 5 seconds. I mean it's ridiculous to assume EA wouldn't be able to detect something like *** client-side.

PB is designed to react to small cheater tools. Those tools get released and used by a few hundred people and after about a week, when the PB guys get their hands on it, everyone who still uses it after that gets banned from those FPS games. The cheat tool creators release a new tool and the whole thing starts again.

With ******, we have a whole scripting platform and over 1500 scripts which are used by over 50,000 people. Besides a few other tools, there isn't even anything else out there because there's just no point to create something that already exists and obviously performs so well because it's free, because there's a public script library (PSL) and forums for help. Even without anything like PB, if EA *REALLY* wanted to do something against a project on such a large scale as *** then they easily could.

The main reason for ***'s success is because it was able to satisfy the need to automate some really boring tasks in UO while the developers did little to help you there. Even the zero-tolerance WoW has a built-in addon system which allows 3rd party code to run within WoW to simplify things for the users (and the whole thing is a great success. People love addons!). EA now finally recognizes the need for some changes to make some tasks in the game less boring but doesn't want to give you the whole thing because it would change the game and would probably be too expensive. They certainly don't want to invest too much money in a game that has seen its best days anyway.

So, where does that leave us after I've said all those things? Do we just give up? Hell no!

You've got a right to play the game in a way where you don't have to fear you'll get the carpal tunnel syndrome. If the developers can't come up with a satisfying solution then they'll have to accept that you'll use a 3rd party tool if that does the job.

Does the introduction of PunkBuster change anything? No, your account ID is probably already stored in some log or another for using *** in the past. Guess what, so are 49,999 other account IDs and they didn't do anything about it... it's a third of the user base after all. This PB thing is only a marketing trick. It changes nothing. The question is how everyone is going to react. Will you say "Oh my, they can detect me now so I'll better stop". Or will you say "They have already detected me and many others. Why not just keep on using what I've used for the last 5 years?"

We could make the whole thing even more blatant. Why not use a special *** version that is _designed_ to be detectable? Of cource, you wouldn't feel comfortable using something like that but in fact, it probably wouldn't make any difference. But it would force EA to admit that they didn't satisfy their customers' need to change the game towards less boring tasks and that they kept looking away for the past couple of years. Something like that would kill off the whole PB marketing trick right at the beginning.

Maybe you're asking yourself, if Cheffe knew *** was detectable client-side in one way or another, why didn't he say anything? Because that would have created an unnecessary panic. We didn't see any ban waves for using *** in the past so it was unlikely they'd do anything like that in the future. The only time you're at risk is if you do something stupid and a GM pays you a visit, in which case you're hosed anyway. After all, you knew the risks and lived with them. And you knew that many others were using *** too and didn't get banned either.

In all those years, we've been trying to protect our users by not allowing any cheats/exploits to appear or be discussed on our website. We've kept *** itself cheat-free and didn't include stuff that would be too dangerous. This was all done because we didn't want to "anger the dragon".

****** itself isn't good or bad. It can be used for either. And that's the problem with it. EA is trying to get rid of it because the bad people are hiding in the mass of legitimate *** users.

So, no matter how we react on EAs apparent new stance towards ******, if they're really willing to go through with this against a third of their customers, then you'll probably see a few changes here.

Of course, I'd much more like the idea to work with EA in order to fight the problem of farm bots or even to integrate *** into UO or make it UO Pro or something. But I haven't been approached in the past. And since they kept looking away, I just did the same. So EA, if you're up to it, get back to me and we'll see if we can find a better solution.

Otherwise, if worst comes to worst, I might decide to make ****** open source to give EA users a chance to cook up their own *** versions. Of course, I would continue to manage and support *** and maybe play a little hide and seek with this oh so powerful PunkBuster. In the end, it really only matters if EA is willing to ban thousands of people and lose a lot of money in the process.

As in the past, we encourage all EA users to take a look at our freeshard server ********** or at any of the other high quality servers out there. In case you want to completely turn your back on Ultima Online, I can really recommend World of Warcraft, which is already played by about 50 times as many users as UO has. It looks really nice graphics-wise and comes with an integrated addon system (not really full macro support like *** has but hey, you can't have everything). Most tasks in WoW aren't nearly as boring as some in UO are, the economy is healthy and casual gaming is possible up to some point. They're even offering free 10-day trial accounts here: http://teaser.wow-europe.com. So if you haven't already checked out WoW you may want to do so now.

Other than that there isn't much to say *Wink* This is my opinion and how I see things. You're free to post your comments below. Also don't hesitate to let the Stratics guys know about this, too.