Smelting Talisman

[Uvtha]

I think this would be a much more enticing reward if it were 100% on all ore types, no time limit, no output limit.

Essentially all this would be doing is bringing mining up to par with Lumberjacking. If you have the skill and the talisman, it smelts 100%.

Honestly I'd prefer that miners had this ability inately, but whatever.

As it is with not just a time limit, but an output limit and a talisman for each different color rather than a universal one... It just seems silly. I honestly can't say I would ever spend any points on these, as I'd rather deal with the ingot loss.

I would however make an effort to get a permanent universal one, even if it were costly. Heck even a permanant by color if it MUST be a grind. At least make it feel like it's worth doing.

 

[Lord Frodo]

 

[Uvtha]

Yeah... Heck, why not drop the smelting rates to 10% on iron ore so you need talismans to smelt ore at all, then increase the cost to1000 points. Sounds like a good plan.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Yeah... Heck, why not drop the smelting rates to 10% on iron ore so you need talismans to smelt ore at all, then increase the cost to1000 points. Sounds like a good plan.

 

[Uvtha]

I don't understand. You either think everything is perfect as designed, or that everything should be harder. Since surely no one would assume the former, I assumed it was the latter.

 

[Theo_GL]

I think this would be a much more enticing reward if it were 100% on all ore types, no time limit, no output limit.

Essentially all this would be doing is bringing mining up to par with Lumberjacking. If you have the skill and the talisman, it smelts 100%.

Honestly I'd prefer that miners had this ability inately, but whatever.

As it is with not just a time limit, but an output limit and a talisman for each different color rather than a universal one... It just seems silly. I honestly can't say I would ever spend any points on these, as I'd rather deal with the ingot loss.

I would however make an effort to get a permanent universal one, even if it were costly. Heck even a permanant by color if it MUST be a grind. At least make it feel like it's worth doing.

Agree. Honestly the smelting failure rates made sense when the ore was static and you could amass a big pile of whatever ore you liked by hitting runebooks. Now that its very hard to find the high end ores, its a kick in the nuts when you also lose ore when smelting. At 100 skill with 5% gloves - all ore should smelt 100%.

To Frodo and those whining about being too easy - I challenge you to go out and mine up 270 valorite ingots. Enough to complete a single 15 EX heater shield bod. I guarantee it will take you hours even with gargoyle pick axes. Esp when you lose 50% on smelting.

 

[Uvtha]

To Frodo and those whining about being too easy - I challenge you to go out and mine up 270 valorite ingots. Enough to complete a single 15 EX heater shield bod. I guarantee it will take you hours even with gargoyle pick axes. Esp when you lose 50% on smelting.

He just likes to use his easy button meme, that's all.

 

[Merus]

To Frodo and those whining about being too easy - I challenge you to go out and mine up 270 valorite ingots. Enough to complete a single 15 EX heater shield bod. I guarantee it will take you hours even with gargoyle pick axes. Esp when you lose 50% on smelting.

That is exactly why he likes it that way. He enjoys mining and crafting and has hours upon hours every day to do it. He doesn't want the average player who probably spends less time in a week playing than he does in a day to have the same access... cause it would "kill the play-style".

 

[Dizzy]

I think this would be a much more enticing reward if it were 100% on all ore types, no time limit, no output limit.

Essentially all this would be doing is bringing mining up to par with Lumberjacking. If you have the skill and the talisman, it smelts 100%.

Honestly I'd prefer that miners had this ability inately, but whatever.

As it is with not just a time limit, but an output limit and a talisman for each different color rather than a universal one... It just seems silly. I honestly can't say I would ever spend any points on these, as I'd rather deal with the ingot loss.

I would however make an effort to get a permanent universal one, even if it were costly. Heck even a permanant by color if it MUST be a grind. At least make it feel like it's worth doing.

I like it. In fact, I'd be happy with just removing the timer.

 

[Fridgster]

@Theo_GL I'll take that valorite challenge. With some planning you can get a decent amount of ore. With that said I agree with @Uvtha the talismans are pretty useless. I don't think it should be a permanent talisman but the charges definitely need to be increased or cost lowered dramatically.

 

[Lord Frodo]

LMAO I will tell you all how to use the system.
Get the BOD that gives you the smelt tally and fill it.
Go mining as usual and take all you high end ore home, *HINT* DO NOT SMELT IT *HINT*
with till you have more ore of the type of Smelters Tally you want.
Now go turn in the BOD and get the Tally.
Go home and smelt the ore.
WOW Now that was hard.
By the way ore carts give more Val Ingots then you will find find the wild.
OMG That hurt my brain so much, UO made me think.

 

[Uvtha]

LMAO I will tell you all how to use the system.
Get the BOD that gives you the smelt tally and fill it.
Go mining as usual and take all you high end ore home, *HINT* DO NOT SMELT IT *HINT*
with till you have more ore of the type of Smelters Tally you want.
Now go turn in the BOD and get the Tally.
Go home and smelt the ore.
WOW Now that was hard.
By the way ore carts give more Val Ingots then you will find find the wild.
OMG That hurt my brain so much, UO made me think.

I don't think anyone is confused about how it works...

 

[Lord Frodo]

I'd be happy with just removing the timer.

This, but no way to removing the amount.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I don't think anyone is confused about how it works...

Really, sure sounded like it was just to hard for you to figure out so you ask for the EASY BUTTON.

 

[PaulCH]

I would love if they would add a 120 PS with a natural progression of smelting success as you move from GM to Legendary mining. Other than the devs needing to find time to code it, I think that one of the difficulties would be raising the skill. I'm not sure how much you can advance mining beyond GM by simply mining. You would need to get legendary by smelting (or GGS). That is assuming that they didn't add other ores as well. You would also be able to get mining to 105 and then use Mining Gloves and Jacob's pickaxe to get to 120 for smelting...

Any other complications I'm not thinking of?

edit *doh! no new ores then we just have the smelting problem with them instead of the existing ones

 

[Uvtha]

Really, sure sounded like it was just to hard for you to figure out so you ask for the EASY BUTTON.

No, I understand it fine, it's not at all hard to understand how to maximize them, in fact it's the only way to use them because of the timer.

I just think making them so restricted is silly for reasons stated in my first post.

Really though I don't get it... Shouldn't you be against these items being added to game, as they would be a representation of the dreadred EASY BUTTON wouldn't they?

 

[Uvtha]

I would love if they would add a 120 PS with a natural progression of smelting success as you move from GM to Legendary mining. Other than the devs needing to find time to code it, I think that one of the difficulties would be raising the skill. I'm not sure how much you can advance mining beyond GM by simply mining. You would need to get legendary by smelting (or GGS). That is assuming that they didn't add other ores as well. You would also be able to get mining to 105 and then use Mining Gloves and Jacob's pickaxe to get to 120 for smelting...

Any other complications I'm not thinking of?

edit *doh! no new ores then we just have the smelting problem with them instead of the existing ones

Do you have to smelt to gm? I honestly don't know, as the last time I raised mining off of siege was like... 98 lol

 

[PaulCH]

Do you have to smelt to gm? I honestly don't know, as the last time I raised mining off of siege was like... 98 lol

You can mine to GM but, at GM, the success rate of mining is so high that I'm not sure sure how much higher that you'd be able to raise it beyond GM by simply mining. For me, it stands to reason that you'd be able to raise towards legendary by smelting...not sure with the math on the natural progression of smelting success if you could get all the way to legendary or if it would have to be tweaked.

 

[Lord Frodo]

No, I understand it fine, it's not at all hard to understand how to maximize them, in fact it's the only way to use them because of the timer.

I just think making them so restricted is silly for reasons stated in my first post.

Really though I don't get it... Shouldn't you be against these items being added to game, as they would be a representation of the dreadred EASY BUTTON wouldn't they?

The Tallies as they have them designed are very useful and are the same as the other Tallies. They were given to us by UO because of the failure rate in smelting. They were designed with a timer and a max usage which is fine, just takes a little brain use to know when to get them. What you suggest is removing the Timer, which would be OK, but then you want the usage removed give me a break and then you go as far as wanting one tally to do it all, *shakes head and walks away* There is a huge difference between something useful and your requested EASY BUTTON.

 

[Lord Frodo]

You can mine to GM but, at GM, the success rate of mining is so high that I'm not sure sure how much higher that you'd be able to raise it beyond GM by simply mining. For me, it stands to reason that you'd be able to raise towards legendary by smelting...not sure with the math on the natural progression of smelting success if you could get all the way to legendary or if it would have to be tweaked.

Mining gains are from mining. I do not remember ever getting mining gains from smelting ore. Any high end ores would give you gains well past 100 if the made a 120 PS for mining.

 

[PaulCH]

Mining gains are from mining. I do not remember ever getting mining gains from smelting ore. Any high end ores would give you gains well past 100 if the made a 120 PS for mining.

Might be too long since you trained mining ...from UO guide:

"Gains from the actual digging process can be from mining any ore type (even Iron-only veins), as the chance of a gain is based on the chance of digging up ore (which only reaches 100% at 100.0 skill). However, gains from smelting of ore into ingots is difficulty based, and is based on the chance to successfully smelt that ore. As a result, while you can gain slowly, simply by mining, you can enhance gains further by splitting up colored ore piles that you are not 100% chance to succeed on, and smelt 1 ore at a time. This is especially useful at very high levels of mining when ores are rarer."

Think that means that it would be hard to raise mining beyond GM by mining because success rate of mining is 100% at 100 skill but smelting would likely work because smelting ore is difficulty based

 

[Fridgster]

Ive always trained mining by smelting ore over and over. One at a time. little monotonous but you can train your pets on shadow elementals while doing it.

 

[Fridgster]

To Frodo and those whining about being too easy - I challenge you to go out and mine up 270 valorite ingots. Enough to complete a single 15 EX heater shield bod. I guarantee it will take you hours even with gargoyle pick axes. Esp when you lose 50% on smelting.

Take an hour one night and go prospect for verite/valorite veins. Mark a rune where the vein is. Do this for 8-10 spots. IGNORE ALL OTHER VEINS. Once done start cycling through your marked runes with a gargoyle pick in hand. By the time you reach the last marked rune the first will have reset and you can cycle right back through. Depending on how many miners you have on your shard you can actually get a lot of cycles done before having to start replacing ore veins. With eight runes I can get about ten full cycles then the spots start changing here and there. I usually pull 450-700 ingots per cycle depending on smelting RNG and number of elementals that spawn

**And always use an elf and mine in fel.

 

[Uvtha]

The Tallies as they have them designed are very useful and are the same as the other Tallies. They were given to us by UO because of the failure rate in smelting. They were designed with a timer and a max usage which is fine, just takes a little brain use to know when to get them. What you suggest is removing the Timer, which would be OK, but then you want the usage removed give me a break and then you go as far as wanting one tally to do it all, *shakes head and walks away* There is a huge difference between something useful and your requested EASY BUTTON.

Next time you might consider starting with this actual discussion of the matter rather than dismissively employing your favorite meme. You might get a better response.

To address the content:

You agree that there was an imbalance in the way ore lost ingots to smelting failure compared to converting logs to boards or hides to cut leather actions that cannot "fail". I think everyone agrees with that, clearly the devs do as well.

Now the way they chose to solve that imbalance was in my opinion extremely and needlessly inelegant. I want to be clear again what it is we are talking about here, turning ore into ingots, an activity that only serves to move from mining to crafting, and (at the risk of being pedantic) is a process automatically successful with all other resources.

So when you speak of "the talisman doing it all for you" you realize that it would only make smelting exactly like turning logs to boards, the very outcome you yourself admit was the source of the imbalance. Why would this be bad? Why is it better to force people to hoard their ore (and their bods that can net a smelting talisman) than to just let them smelt it as they naturally work? My answer: It's not. The only thing that's lost is the continual grind of getting new talismans and the new hassle of altering your regular mining process, an activity I might add that is already pretty unpopular, to stockpile raw ore. It's simple enough to do, that's true, but if you don't have to do it, nothing would be lost.

To be clear, mining would still be imbalanced/harder as you would still need to spend time effort and probably money to get an item to enable you to do what all other resources skills already can, which is again, to be clear... simply convert raw into usable resources.

The real crux of my feeling here is: Yes this works... but could there be a better way to accomplish the goal? I think there could be.

 

[Uvtha]

I don't think it should be a permanent talisman

May I inquire as to why you feel that way? The only reason I can think of is that rare ore is easier to find than rare wood, of course rare ore doesn't have any practical uses like rare woods do, so it's just for bods or color.

Like I said, I think that smelting should just be an automatic part of the skill, just like logs to boards, I wish we didn't have to earn the ability to do something you should just be able to do by having the skill.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Next time you might consider starting with this actual discussion of the matter rather than dismissively employing your favorite meme. You might get a better response.

And again your OP is nothing but asking for an easy button.

The real crux of my feeling here is: Yes this works... but could there be an easier way to accomplish the goal? I think there could be.

Fixed it for you.

 

[PaulCH]

May I inquire as to why you feel that way? The only reason I can think of is that rare ore is easier to find than rare wood, of course rare ore doesn't have any practical uses like rare woods do, so it's just for bods or color.

Like I said, I think that smelting should just be an automatic part of the skill, just like logs to boards, I wish we didn't have to earn the ability to do something you should just be able to do by having the skill.

I'm ok with mining being different from lumberjacking being different that hide collecting.

How far do the prospecting tools and Gargoyles pickaxes (both in upgrading the ore vein and in getting extra ingots through the eles) go towards balancing it? I know that, for me, I get *FAR* more rare ore, even after smelting failure, than rare woods.

 

[Pawain]

The real issue is this:

If the talismans were use based with no time limit. I bet we would have no complaints.

Some fanboys just accept the developers always do the right thing so they always say whatever they did is the best way...

 

[PaulCH]

The real issue is this:

If the talismans were use based with no time limit. I bet we would have no complaints.

Some fanboys just accept the developers always do the right thing so they always say whatever they did is the best way...

I don't understand the need for the timer unless the devs deliberately want players to get less out of the talisman than they can (not factoring in the work around of hoarding the ore and smelting all together). For me, the timer would makes sense if there were no charges ie limit the talisman one way or the other but both doesn't seem to make sense.

 

[MoxZinnia]

The timer should just be removed, so all miners can use them, not just teleport the ore home and put it in a box for later miners. I walk with my fire beetle in caves and smelt as I go, smiting elementals. I don't want to change my character to have magery. I already tried that kind of mining, didn't like it, and dropped magery. As it is I would never get one of those tallies.

 

[Dizzy]

Really, sure sounded like it was just to hard for you to figure out so you ask for the EASY BUTTON.

Frodo, what is with you and calling every suggestion an "easy" button? You're being dismissive and condescending to those with honest suggestions.

I know how it works. My ore storage more than doubled since I now have to save instead of smelting right away. (it's not quite doubled sine I'm only saving gold and above, but I have 4 sizes of ore.). And I'm saving completed bods instead of cashing them in because I'm not ready to claim a talisman, so more storage.

Removing the timer offer more flexibility. The time provides no benefit, it's just annoying and serves no purpose.

And if the timer is removed, we could put the extra talismans on a vendor.

So I think my suggestion is thoughtful and reasoned and makes the game more enjoyable. Saying "easy button" after every post in not thoughtful, not reasoned, and makes reading Stratics less enjoyable.

There. That was easy.

 

[Theo_GL]

Take an hour one night and go prospect for verite/valorite veins. Mark a rune where the vein is. Do this for 8-10 spots. IGNORE ALL OTHER VEINS. Once done start cycling through your marked runes with a gargoyle pick in hand. By the time you reach the last marked rune the first will have reset and you can cycle right back through. Depending on how many miners you have on your shard you can actually get a lot of cycles done before having to start replacing ore veins. With eight runes I can get about ten full cycles then the spots start changing here and there. I usually pull 450-700 ingots per cycle depending on smelting RNG and number of elementals that spawn

**And always use an elf and mine in fel.

Yup, I know how to do it - but the time required to find those veins and then milk them is a very long time. Potentially losing 50% or more on a smelt is not a required penalty given how long it takes to find and mine them. Keep in mind it is what 7 minutes between recycle? Point is - many hours to accomplish this setup and execution and needs to be redone each time you want more Val ore.

I chop Frostwood logs. I cut them to boards. zero lost resources.
I kill Barbed leather dragons. I cut them to cloth pieces. Zero lost resources.
I mine ore. With MAX skills and 5% gloves - I can lose 50% on each attempt to convert.

The main point is : it is not consistent with other resource gathering and its a needless penalty since they already made it harder to find the ore spots with recycling the locations.

 

[Theo_GL]

The real issue is this:

If the talismans were use based with no time limit. I bet we would have no complaints.

Some fanboys just accept the developers always do the right thing so they always say whatever they did is the best way...

Ha ha exactly. I would guess the reason they put a timer on it is thinking that if you did use it as you mined -there is no way you could find and dig up 3,000 raw val ore in a 24 hour period so they are keeping the amount of val ore low. Instead people want to get max use out of the item so they are going to stockpile the raw ore.

You know what would be a better reward than the tally? Just being able to select 250 val ingots for a reward. Thats all people want anyways is more resources to complete more bods. You can get cloth from tailor rewards - why not smith resources from smith rewards?

 

[Lord Frodo]

Frodo, what is with you and calling every suggestion an "easy" button? You're being dismissive and condescending to those with honest suggestions.

I know how it works. My ore storage more than doubled since I now have to save instead of smelting right away. (it's not quite doubled sine I'm only saving gold and above, but I have 4 sizes of ore.). And I'm saving completed bods instead of cashing them in because I'm not ready to claim a talisman, so more storage.

Removing the timer offer more flexibility. The time provides no benefit, it's just annoying and serves no purpose.

And if the timer is removed, we could put the extra talismans on a vendor.

So I think my suggestion is thoughtful and reasoned and makes the game more enjoyable. Saying "easy button" after every post in not thoughtful, not reasoned, and makes reading Stratics less enjoyable.

There. That was easy.

This is from post #19 " What you suggest is removing the Timer, which would be OK " bit I guess I didn't say that and if you care to read the OP he is asking the timer and the uses to be removed and wants 1 Tally to do all the ores with NO TIMER and NO USES so yes that is asking for an easy button.

 

[Uvtha]

This is from post #19 " What you suggest is removing the Timer, which would be OK " bit I guess I didn't say that and if you care to read the OP he is asking the timer and the uses to be removed and wants 1 Tally to do all the ores with NO TIMER and NO USES so yes that is asking for an easy button.

So if you are ok with making it easier it's fine. If not then it's EASY BUTTON™ No reason why, no defense of your position, obviously zero desire to actually talk about it, or critique any points presented. Fun.

 

[Uvtha]

I'm ok with mining being different from lumberjacking being different that hide collecting.

How far do the prospecting tools and Gargoyles pickaxes (both in upgrading the ore vein and in getting extra ingots through the eles) go towards balancing it? I know that, for me, I get *FAR* more rare ore, even after smelting failure, than rare woods.

It's certainly true that it's much easier to find rare ore than rare wood. On the other hand I wish rare wood were much easier to find. I really hate the randomization of resources. I remember back in the day you had an actual reason to travel around and search out weird spots where good ore/logs would be. I remember how hyped I was when I found my first frostwood tree out in the middle of nowhere. Later on there were a few frost wood spots that became pk check in areas, so you had to actually be on your toes when you went in for a pack load.

Good times.

 

[Dizzy]

This is from post #19 " What you suggest is removing the Timer, which would be OK " bit I guess I didn't say that and if you care to read the OP he is asking the timer and the uses to be removed and wants 1 Tally to do all the ores with NO TIMER and NO USES so yes that is asking for an easy button.

I would encourage you to find a way to positively disagree with someone and explain why you think their idea goes too far in simplifying the game then.

For instance, I think having separate talismans is fine. It gives more available rewards and makes the Valorite talisman more expensive than the gold, which I think reflect its worth.

When all you do is post an "easy button" response, it shows insufficient thought into a response and it's dismissive to the original poster who obviously is impassioned enough to make a post requesting change. I think he deserves more respect than that, and a thoughtful reply would bolster the community instead of tearing it down.

Please consider it, Frodo. Thanks.

(P.s. I'm not a moderator, but I once played one on tv.)

 

[PaulCH]

It's certainly true that it's much easier to find rare ore than rare wood. On the other hand I wish rare wood were much easier to find. I really hate the randomization of resources. I remember back in the day you had an actual reason to travel around and search out weird spots where good ore/logs would be. I remember how hyped I was when I found my first frostwood tree out in the middle of nowhere. Later on there were a few frost wood spots that became pk check in areas, so you had to actually be on your toes when you went in for a pack load.

Good times.

I wish rare wood was easier to find also. I already posted some lumberjacking results in the craftsman forum a couple a days and will post an update tonight. If memory serves me well (and it sometimes does and, well, other times... ) then I have gotten about 450 frostwood boards out of 125,000 total boards which is 0.36% (less than 1%).

I'm not sure that removing the randomization is the right answer, although I wouldn't object to it, but here are some other possible solutions:
1) Increase spawn of colored woods
2) Increase logs you get when you do find a tree
3) Increase the amount of time before a tree changes (ie don't eliminate randomization but a compromise by keeping each tree as is longer)
4) Add the equivalent of a prospector's tool
5) Add the equivalent of a Gargoyle's pickaxe
6) Add a 120 PS where you're more likely to get rare wood as you get higher skill. I proposed a similar thing for mining. For lumberjacking, there is the added complication that it adds damage for axe-type weapons. Don't think it's a problem for PvM but may be a problem for PvP (no idea as I haven't PvPed in many years but, reading Stratics, I don't think that many PvPers use lumberjacking in their template so maybe it would make it a little more viable).

Any or all of these would be nice changes which would make it more rewarding for players who like to lumberjack and might encourage some people to get back out there and lumberjack.

 

[Uvtha]

I wish rare wood was easier to find also. I already posted some lumberjacking results in the craftsman forum a couple a days and will post an update tonight. If memory serves me well (and it sometimes does and, well, other times... ) then I have gotten about 450 frostwood boards out of 125,000 total boards which is 0.36% (less than 1%).

I'm not sure that removing the randomization is the right answer, although I wouldn't object to it, but here are some other possible solutions:
1) Increase spawn of colored woods
2) Increase logs you get when you do find a tree
3) Increase the amount of time before a tree changes (ie don't eliminate randomization but a compromise by keeping each tree as is longer)
4) Add the equivalent of a prospector's tool
5) Add the equivalent of a Gargoyle's pickaxe
6) Add a 120 PS where you're more likely to get rare wood as you get higher skill. I proposed a similar thing for mining. For lumberjacking, there is the added complication that it adds damage for axe-type weapons. Don't think it's a problem for PvM but may be a problem for PvP (no idea as I haven't PvPed in many years but, reading Stratics, I don't think that many PvPers use lumberjacking in their template so maybe it would make it a little more viable.

Any or all of these would be nice changes would make it more rewarding for players who like to lumberjack and might encourage some people to get back out there and lumberjack.

I would do 1, 4 and 5.

I would also put resource maps as rare drops in treasure chests.

 

[PaulCH]

I would do 1, 4 and 5.

I would also put resource maps as rare drops in treasure chests.

I was going to suggest allowing a char with lumberjacking and cartography to create maps to rare wood spots but couldn't figure out how to suggest implementation. Your idea to have them as a rare drop in treasure chests would be perfect. I don't treasure hunt but could possibly buy the maps or maybe make a treasure hunter...

 

[Lord Frodo]

I would encourage you to find a way to positively disagree with someone and explain why you think their idea goes too far in simplifying the game then.

For instance, I think having separate talismans is fine. It gives more available rewards and makes the Valorite talisman more expensive than the gold, which I think reflect its worth.

When all you do is post an "easy button" response, it shows insufficient thought into a response and it's dismissive to the original poster who obviously is impassioned enough to make a post requesting change. I think he deserves more respect than that, and a thoughtful reply would bolster the community instead of tearing it down.

Please consider it, Frodo. Thanks.

(P.s. I'm not a moderator, but I once played one on tv.)

He knew flat out what he was asking for, an unlimited Tally that gives %100 smelting rate with no restrictions on it, if that is not the definition of an easy button then what is. I understand your situation so the timer is no problem but please, unlimited uses no ty. And for the people that want to sell them it is so easy, just sell the BOD that gives them, problem fixed.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I wish rare wood was easier to find also. I already posted some lumberjacking results in the craftsman forum a couple a days and will post an update tonight. If memory serves me well (and it sometimes does and, well, other times... ) then I have gotten about 450 frostwood boards out of 125,000 total boards which is 0.36% (less than 1%).

I'm not sure that removing the randomization is the right answer, although I wouldn't object to it, but here are some other possible solutions:
1) Increase spawn of colored woods
2) Increase logs you get when you do find a tree
3) Increase the amount of time before a tree changes (ie don't eliminate randomization but a compromise by keeping each tree as is longer)
4) Add the equivalent of a prospector's tool
5) Add the equivalent of a Gargoyle's pickaxe
6) Add a 120 PS where you're more likely to get rare wood as you get higher skill. I proposed a similar thing for mining. For lumberjacking, there is the added complication that it adds damage for axe-type weapons. Don't think it's a problem for PvM but may be a problem for PvP (no idea as I haven't PvPed in many years but, reading Stratics, I don't think that many PvPers use lumberjacking in their template so maybe it would make it a little more viable).

Any or all of these would be nice changes which would make it more rewarding for players who like to lumberjack and might encourage some people to get back out there and lumberjack.

1 yes
2 just make it where a tree only gives one wood type, none of this %70 wood %30 colored wood BS. If it is a colored wood then make all logs that color.
3,4 and 5 yes
6 LJ, Mining, Fletching, Tink, Carp, Alchemy, Cook and Scribe. All BOD skills should be 120 and add LJ to Carp, Mining to Smith. Put these in the BOD Reward system.

 

[Basara]

Frodo:

The talismans for wood chopping are nice, in that regard.

You have to find the trees with the right wood type to start with, unless you use a wood map*, BUT

1. Every chop is that wood type (using one charge), so no regular wood.
2. You get 50% colored logs than normal per chop (15 logs/chop for Elves, 17 logs/chop for Humans; I assume Gargoyles would use the elf numbers)

But, it's definitely something that UOAssist's log stacking on the ground is useful for, as you can accidentally waste chops if you go over backpack capacity. And, you need to take pack animals with you (as you don't want the logs to decay on you from sitting on the ground after an hour passes for the first log).
I've used 2 talismans so far (1 Yew, 1 Heartwood). The Yew talisman resulted in 5100 Yew in less than an hour. The Heartwood talisman took a little longer, as two of the trees crapped out on me after 175 chops, and the last tree averaged 16 chops per reset and took 6 chopping sessions (with about 10 minutes between running out and refill) to get the last 100 chops in.

* (and I don't use a wood map, but go out and write down coordinates of the proper tree types - I currently have the locations of over 6 Yew, 1 Heartwood (was 3 but 2 changed), 2 bloodwood and 2 Frostwood trees in Eodon written down, and several of them produce 1000+ logs per reset)

 

[Theo_GL]

I was going to suggest allowing a char with lumberjacking and cartography to create maps to rare wood spots but couldn't figure out how to suggest implementation. Your idea to have them as a rare drop in treasure chests would be perfect. I don't treasure hunt but could possibly buy the maps or maybe make a treasure hunter...

See - I don't like this kind of stuff for the game. It is already complex enough. We don't need more systems and special processes to fix a problem that has a simple fix.

The randomization of wood was great to keep the rare wood from being camped by scripters 24x7. Great job devs.

HOWEVER, the rarity levels for the wood (less than 1% for frostwood) was implemented BEFORE randomization of wood. Make it really hard to find initially but once you have a few trees marked you can go back and get some wood now and then in between scipter runs. So the real problem is the rarity level as it wasn't designed with random trees in mind.

Just change the spawn rates for all the woods to occur more often. If frostwood is less than 1% now - make it 1%. 1 out of every 100 trees. Sounds reasonable. Thats still alot of prospecting and it goes away after 5-7 runs anyways.

No more complex systems. No more complex maps. Just fix the problem - rarity is too rare so fix the randomization table. Up the percentages of the high end woods by 2x to 3x. If frostwood is .3% now make it 1%. If bloodwood is 2% make it 4% etc.
That fixes everything about lumberjacking. Still work - but not mountains of work.

As a side note - this doesn't actually benefit me as I used to play years ago on a dead shard before the randomization. I had a runebook full of spots and I'd cycle through for 700-800 logs per run. I amassed about 200k in frostwood. Enough to keep me busy doing bods for a long time. This actually hurts the value of my stash - but I think the change is fair for the average lumberjack in terms of time vs reward. Up the spawn rates a bit on wood.

Here is what I would do for crafting resource changes overall :

1 - UP rare wood spawn rates by 2 to 3x now that wood is randomized.
2 - Remove smelting penalty at 105 smith. That should allow you to smelt everythign 100%.
3 - Get rid of ore tally's and instead let people pick rewards of rare ingots. 250 Aggy, 250 verite, 250 valorite at appropriate point levels.
4 - Triple the rate of amber and rare gems when mining (amber, blue diamonds, blue sapphires, ecru citrine etc). Those are so rare only scritpers can reliably get a stash to craft those rings requiring special gems. You only get the special mod on a ecru cit ring like 1 out of 5 times and each one takes 10 ecru citerine or whatever. Seriously that is like 50 of the rare item (not taking into account crafting fails as its 74% at GM) to craft one that might be decent. It would take you a good week of mining 2-3 hours a day to get 50 ecru citerine. That is just crazy. Those things should spawn way more often than they do.
5 - Create a few more monsters that give barbed hides. With lizardmen and drakes you can get sick amounts of spined and horned but barb has many less farming spots. Ok if the monsters are still tough but maybe add a few more options for barb gathering.

Everything else seems fine. It should still be work to do this but a few tweaks would level the field a bit in these cases. I really think #4 is so overdue its crazy. No crafter can reliably gather enough of these without buying them from scripters to craft anything meaningful. With today's crazy loot drops for jewelry anyways - whats the harm???

 

[Uvtha]

See - I don't like this kind of stuff for the game. It is already complex enough. We don't need more systems and special processes to fix a problem that has a simple fix.

The randomization of wood was great to keep the rare wood from being camped by scripters 24x7. Great job devs.

HOWEVER, the rarity levels for the wood (less than 1% for frostwood) was implemented BEFORE randomization of wood. Make it really hard to find initially but once you have a few trees marked you can go back and get some wood now and then in between scipter runs. So the real problem is the rarity level as it wasn't designed with random trees in mind.

Just change the spawn rates for all the woods to occur more often. If frostwood is less than 1% now - make it 1%. 1 out of every 100 trees. Sounds reasonable. Thats still alot of prospecting and it goes away after 5-7 runs anyways.

No more complex systems. No more complex maps. Just fix the problem - rarity is too rare so fix the randomization table. Up the percentages of the high end woods by 2x to 3x. If frostwood is .3% now make it 1%. If bloodwood is 2% make it 4% etc.
That fixes everything about lumberjacking. Still work - but not mountains of work.

As a side note - this doesn't actually benefit me as I used to play years ago on a dead shard before the randomization. I had a runebook full of spots and I'd cycle through for 700-800 logs per run. I amassed about 200k in frostwood. Enough to keep me busy doing bods for a long time. This actually hurts the value of my stash - but I think the change is fair for the average lumberjack in terms of time vs reward. Up the spawn rates a bit on wood.

Here is what I would do for crafting resource changes overall :

1 - UP rare wood spawn rates by 2 to 3x now that wood is randomized.
2 - Remove smelting penalty at 105 smith. That should allow you to smelt everythign 100%.
3 - Get rid of ore tally's and instead let people pick rewards of rare ingots. 250 Aggy, 250 verite, 250 valorite at appropriate point levels.
4 - Triple the rate of amber and rare gems when mining (amber, blue diamonds, blue sapphires, ecru citrine etc). Those are so rare only scritpers can reliably get a stash to craft those rings requiring special gems. You only get the special mod on a ecru cit ring like 1 out of 5 times and each one takes 10 ecru citerine or whatever. Seriously that is like 50 of the rare item (not taking into account crafting fails as its 74% at GM) to craft one that might be decent. It would take you a good week of mining 2-3 hours a day to get 50 ecru citerine. That is just crazy. Those things should spawn way more often than they do.
5 - Create a few more monsters that give barbed hides. With lizardmen and drakes you can get sick amounts of spined and horned but barb has many less farming spots. Ok if the monsters are still tough but maybe add a few more options for barb gathering.

Everything else seems fine. It should still be work to do this but a few tweaks would level the field a bit in these cases. I really think #4 is so overdue its crazy. No crafter can reliably gather enough of these without buying them from scripters to craft anything meaningful. With today's crazy loot drops for jewelry anyways - whats the harm???

I'd personally recommend more regular gems from mining as well. It should be at least 1/4th as competitive as chain killing gargoyles.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Frodo:

The talismans for wood chopping are nice, in that regard.

You have to find the trees with the right wood type to start with, unless you use a wood map*, BUT

1. Every chop is that wood type (using one charge), so no regular wood.
2. You get 50% colored logs than normal per chop (15 logs/chop for Elves, 17 logs/chop for Humans; I assume Gargoyles would use the elf numbers)

But, it's definitely something that UOAssist's log stacking on the ground is useful for, as you can accidentally waste chops if you go over backpack capacity. And, you need to take pack animals with you (as you don't want the logs to decay on you from sitting on the ground after an hour passes for the first log).
I've used 2 talismans so far (1 Yew, 1 Heartwood). The Yew talisman resulted in 5100 Yew in less than an hour. The Heartwood talisman took a little longer, as two of the trees crapped out on me after 175 chops, and the last tree averaged 16 chops per reset and took 6 chopping sessions (with about 10 minutes between running out and refill) to get the last 100 chops in.

* (and I don't use a wood map, but go out and write down coordinates of the proper tree types - I currently have the locations of over 6 Yew, 1 Heartwood (was 3 but 2 changed), 2 bloodwood and 2 Frostwood trees in Eodon written down, and several of them produce 1000+ logs per reset)

I am talking about when you walk up to a tree without the Tally, a tree should only give 1 type of wood.

 

[Basara]

Technically the LJ resource squares are supposed to represent multiple trees (which is hilarious when you find a Yew tree in Yew that overlaps 2 squares, and neither side of the tree actually gives Yew, but something else).

I can see some of the wood coming back as non-special, because that's a rather odd way of reflecting that all the wood from a tree stand will be useful for high-end products in addition to there being multiple trees there.

But, I'm definitely in agreement the base chance for colored wood needs to be increased without a talisman, and the chance for each special wood Yew & higher increased.

 

[PaulCH]

Would normally post this in the craftsman forum but seems appropriate, given the context of this thread, to post my recent lumerjacking results here:

137,496 boards - Approximately 6,300 chops (boards divided by 22 since my lumberjack is human, rounded up from 6250 to 6300 to account for some chops with a full backpack)

Regular - 105,090 - 76.43% (of total boards)
Oak - 16,478 - 11.98%
Ash - 7,216 - 5.25%
Yew - 4,400 - 3.20%
Bloodwood - 3146 - 2.29%
Heartwood - 748 - 0.54%
Frostwood - 418 - 0.30%

This includes marking spots with everything ash and up and always starting my lumberjacking by checking those spots, hoping that they are still high end wood.

Luminescent Fungi - 173 - 2.75% (of total chops)
Switch - 132 - 2.10%
Parasitic Plants - 59 - 0.94%
Bark Fragments - 617 - 9.79%
Brilliant Amber - 11 - 0.17%

For comparison, you can find mining results here but the difference is huge.

 

[Theo_GL]

Would normally post this in the craftsman forum but seems appropriate, given the context of this thread, to post my recent lumerjacking results here:

137,496 boards - Approximately 6,300 chops (boards divided by 22 since my lumberjack is human, rounded up from 6250 to 6300 to account for some chops with a full backpack)

Regular - 105,090 - 76.43% (of total boards)
Oak - 16,478 - 11.98%
Ash - 7,216 - 5.25%
Yew - 4,400 - 3.20%
Bloodwood - 3146 - 2.29%
Heartwood - 748 - 0.54%
Frostwood - 418 - 0.30%

This includes marking spots with everything ash and up and always starting my lumberjacking by checking those spots, hoping that they are still high end wood.

Luminescent Fungi - 173 - 2.75% (of total chops)
Switch - 132 - 2.10%
Parasitic Plants - 59 - 0.94%
Bark Fragments - 617 - 9.79%
Brilliant Amber - 11 - 0.17%

For comparison, you can find mining results here but the difference is huge.

Great work here and enough data to reasonably infer the actual spawn percentages.

Looks like something around : Regular 75%, Oak 12%, Ash 6%, Yew 3%, Bloodwood 1.5%, Heartwood .75%, Frostwood .33%

That would be effectively dropping each one to be half as rare as the previous wood. Given the randomization of wood now I'd suggest :

Regular 66%, Oak 12%, Ash 8%, Yew 6%, Blood 4%, Heartwood 2%, Frostwood 1%

That would be so much more reasonable and still keeps the high end woods hard to find but not nearly as much of a needle in a haystack as it does now. The fact that you chopped 137k boards to find 418 frostwood that would barely finish a small frostwood bow bod is just crazy. That's way way too rare for the effort. At 1% you would see approx. 1,300 frost for 137k. Still rare but not nearly as much of a disaster as it is now.

 

[Uvtha]

Would normally post this in the craftsman forum but seems appropriate, given the context of this thread, to post my recent lumerjacking results here:

137,496 boards - Approximately 6,300 chops (boards divided by 22 since my lumberjack is human, rounded up from 6250 to 6300 to account for some chops with a full backpack)

Regular - 105,090 - 76.43% (of total boards)
Oak - 16,478 - 11.98%
Ash - 7,216 - 5.25%
Yew - 4,400 - 3.20%
Bloodwood - 3146 - 2.29%
Heartwood - 748 - 0.54%
Frostwood - 418 - 0.30%

This includes marking spots with everything ash and up and always starting my lumberjacking by checking those spots, hoping that they are still high end wood.

Luminescent Fungi - 173 - 2.75% (of total chops)
Switch - 132 - 2.10%
Parasitic Plants - 59 - 0.94%
Bark Fragments - 617 - 9.79%
Brilliant Amber - 11 - 0.17%

For comparison, you can find mining results here but the difference is huge.

I would also love it if bark fragments yielded more wood pulp so crafters could be a reasonable source of blank scrolls.