Sharing my results

[Lynk]

A while back I mentioned in another thread I made the following build:

120 Sword
120 Tact
120 Anat
120 Bushido
100 Lumberjack
99 Necro (84 with +15 on a ring)
56 Chiv

I made the woodland armor so I could get all of my HCI/DI to 45/100 without needing either on the wep. I have 5 SSI on the ring and use the 5 SSI cape with over 180 stam so I swing an ornate at max swing speed.

The idea is to chain crushing blow. I have 40 lmc and a mana pool of 50. My axe had 63 mana leech on it. I was able to do crushing blow on every swing.

I finished my suit yesterday and went to kill balrons. It worked very well. I never got below 3/4 life as every hit pretty much leeched me back to full.

First crushing started at 136 dmg, and then got consecutively higher as my level of perfection increased. Unfortunately it never took 10 swings to kill one of them so I don't know what the max damage output was.

I didn't think to try doing some with lightning strike to compare the crit dmg vs crushing. I'll make a note to track those results.

I won't have time tonight or even any time this weekend but Monday night I'll do a dreadhorn to see if I have similar results.

 

[Taylor]

Nice. Very cool temp/suit. Eager to hear the results post-perfection.

 

[Stupid Miner]

Crushing Blow falls under the 300% damage cap, doesn't it?
Test it with a single slayer axe, that'll give a quick answer.

 

[Lynk]

Crushing Blow falls under the 300% damage cap, doesn't it?
Test it with a single slayer axe, that'll give a quick answer.

You're saying a regular hit would do as much damage as a crushing once I hit the 300% damage increase cap?

 

[Stupid Miner]

You're saying a regular hit would do as much damage as a crushing once I hit the 300% damage increase cap?

Yes.

Of course for creatures that don't have slayers, you can't reach the cap without crushing blow.

And it also has obvious benefit when fighting creatures that you aren't able to honor in time.

So... if you're fighting the Dark Father and aren't able to honor him, you can still reach the Triple damage cap:
Super Slayer (+100%), EoO (+50%), Crushing Blow (+50%) = 300%
But without crushing blow, the best would be 250% damage

Or for things with no slayer category like the Flesh Renderer:
Perfection, EoO and Crushing Blow = 300% damage instead of 250%

and much more substantially when you fail to honor it:
EoO and Crushing Blow = 200% damage instead of 150% damage

So there are uses for this when you're fighting single enemies that you fail to honor. Or single enemies without slayers.
I say single enemies, because if you're fighting two or more you can use momentum strike off the weaker one onto the harder one and get +100% damage instead of +50%.


*for anyone wondering why +50%, +50%, +100% = 300%
It's because percentages start at 100% which is the same thing as plain damage. 0% damage would be a miss, or like not using a weapon.

** Worth mentioning, Ki Strike if done correctly gives +100% damage to a single opponent, but I'm not sure it'll actually be more effective

 

[Picus at the office]

I was tanking a Semidar the other night and decided that I wanted to try the crushing blow. I didn't notice any difference to the overall damage. I was thinking about making a katana for AI and seeing what that would be like but have yet to do so.

That said the Ornate does hit for some massive damage when I get a crit to hit, can be in the 200-240 range which ='s a yum.

I'd like to see what a demon slayer katana does when your in wraith form. I wonder if you could just spam AI with the odd curse to keep your life going.

 

[Stupid Miner]

I'd like to see what a demon slayer katana does when your in wraith form. I wonder if you could just spam AI with the odd curse to keep your life going.

She'd run out of mana. You'll want to alternate AI with Lightning Strike.
Slasher, however, you can chain endlessly.

 

[Lynk]

Ok so I found time to do a dreadhorn last night.

Good news, I do have the mana and dmg output to constantly do crushing blow. Never ran out of mana unless I was drained or vamped.

The keys have never been easier. Gnaw has never been a challenge. I was killing Lissith/Silk in 2 or 3 hits. Irk even went down after 6 crushing blows.

Miner was right. Unfortunately the extra DI from crushing is under the same cap as the 300%. At perfection I was hitting for about 136 on normal swings, and when I did crushing blow the damage didn't go up at all.

I was doing critical hits for 244 with my ornate axe though.

I'm going to imbue myself a hatchet tonight, and go back and try it with Armor ignores instead of crushing to see if that is more effective than lightning strikes when I have LJ on, and if I can chain the AIs like I could crushing.

The uses are still there for the LJ/Crushing build. One is for silver farming. I was able to kill demons in 2 hits. Also as SM mentioned before if you miss the honor it can be helpful.

Based on the results from my hatchet experiment I may be dropping the LJ off for parry unless I'm farming silver.

 

[Lynk]

So I imbued the hatchet and went back last night. For the hatchet I just put all three leeches at max, hla at max, and then all remaining intensity into HLD.

I have the 10 SSI from items so I was able to easily swing max speed after the wave of hopelessness and curse with the hatchet.

My AIs were doing 170, which seemed to be about what my crits were doing. They each varied slightly from swing to swing.

I needed 13 mana for the first AI, and 26 for the second. After the wave of hopelessness my mana pool was 38. I wasn't able to constantly AI, but most of the time it was because I would have 20-25 mana and had to wait for a normal swing to get that little bump. I think that if I could get my mana pool up to about 70 I could chain AI without stopping.

I'm going to go back again tonight and do it again but this time I'm going to soulstone LJ and put on parry to compare the damage difference.

But so far I think LJ is worth it with the Ornate when farming mobs that take less than 10 swings to kill. The crushing blow damage is just sick.

The Hatchet with LJ is great for mobs that don't really have any low resists, the AIs keep the damage up and better damage over time than crits from lightning strike.

 

[JJMcClure]

I'm going to go back again tonight and do it again but this time I'm going to soulstone LJ and put on parry to compare the damage difference.

How did this work out for you?

 

[Lynk]

How did this work out for you?

I actually didn't get a chance to soulstone it, I went and did a Rikktor spawn and kept LJ on.

170 AI's on any mob is pretty nice... though I'll post AI damage without LJ once I test it.

 

[Lynk]

When using a hatchet ..

AIs for 140ish when I dropped LJ and picked up parry.

AIs for 170ish with LJ.

Think I'm gonna stick with LJ for the most part. The ornate sure is nice if I can't get honor, crushing still puts me at max dmg per swing.

 

[JJMcClure]

When using a hatchet ..

AIs for 140ish when I dropped LJ and picked up parry.

AIs for 170ish with LJ.

Think I'm gonna stick with LJ for the most part. The ornate sure is nice if I can't get honor, crushing still puts me at max dmg per swing.

Where you still fighting dreadhorn? Does the extra damage you dish out, out weigh the extra damage you take in? I've tried multiple warrior temps over the years and they just don't seem to be as strong with out parry.

 

[Lynk]

Where you still fighting dreadhorn? Does the extra damage you dish out, out weigh the extra damage you take in? I've tried multiple warrior temps over the years and they just don't seem to be as strong with out parry.

The test with parry was done on a Baracoon champ, but AI damage is the same to anything since it bypasses resists.

I did dreadhorn without parry and it was fine. I did Rikktor without parry and it was fine.

As long as you can keep swinging at max speed parry isn't needed. When you fall below 1.75 / sec swings is when you have problems.

 

[JJMcClure]

That would explain my problem. I'm broke and my suit isn't real great so I have a hard time keeping my swing speed up.

 

[Stupid Miner]

That would explain my problem. I'm broke and my suit isn't real great so I have a hard time keeping my swing speed up.

70 chiv and a weapon with good stamina leech is all you need.

 

[Stupid Miner]

The uses are still there for the LJ/Crushing build. One is for silver farming. I was able to kill demons in 2 hits.

You can also do this with 2 double shots from a Yumi.

 

[JJMcClure]

70 chiv and a weapon with good stamina leech is all you need.

Yeah thats very true. I just imbued a new double axe with stam leech and it makes things much better. I also upped my DCI so Divine Fury's lower DCI isn't as notice able.

 

[Lynk]

So I lowered my dex a bit and picked up some more intelligence.

Final stam is 161 and final mana is 74 (78 once I get +4 int boots).

I kept it at 161 so I can still chug an agility to get to 180 if for whatever reason I want to swing an ornate at max.

I also made a reptile slayer hatchet to see what kind of damage I could get on Riki.

So with 150 str, 100 di from items, enemy of one, perfection, 100 lj, and reptile slayer on the hatchet i was able to get my AI up to 193. I thought I saw one for 200 but was only once and it might have been a crit.

78 mana is enough for 3 AIs at the double mana cost, and *usually* one out of every 3 AI's leeches me back to full. Very rarely did I have to stop doing AI and when I did stop I think its because of that 4 mana I don't have yet. I think my longest streak was 30 AIs. I'll count better next time.

 

[Obsidian]

Lynk, what arties are you using?

I started working this suit and weapon in Excel. I'm thinking of tweaking the build (99 necro --> 40 necro 60 ss) to run Wraith form as an endless-AI hatchet weilding Slasher killer. I'll have to keep up Curse Weapon 100% of the time and therefore was going to run with protection on. I'm having trouble keeping 70/70/70/70/70 while in form and still fitting 45 HCI, 45 DCI, 40 LMC, 100 LRC, and 100 DI. The DI seems to be the toughest without the normal 40 or so from the weapon. I don't want to use Stormgrip because the resists are meh and it doesn't have LMC.

My concept used Spirit of the Totem, ring, and brace for the 45 HCI. 45 DCI came from Fey Legs, ring and brace. 40 LMC came from imbued arms, hands, chest, gorget, Cloak of Augmentation, and Totem of the Void. LRC is from gorget, chest, arms, hands, ring, and brace. DI is only on the ring and brace, 4 heartwood pieces (and weapon if I change your setup).

I know an easy solution is to drop LRC, but I really wanted to fit this for never ending Curse Weapons.

Since you had HLD on the weapon I was trying to run without M&S Glasses thus the Spirit of the Totem. I could use a Conjurer's Trinket, but then I need to squeeze LMC on either the ring or brace. I also don't have an extra Trinket so tried to fit in the Void.

Thoughts?

-OBSIDIAN-

 

[Stupid Miner]

Thoughts?

-OBSIDIAN-

Problem with Slasher is the area paralyze and keeping alive through them. Otherwise he's not tougher than some other peerless.

 

[Lynk]

Lynk, what arties are you using?

I started working this suit and weapon in Excel. I'm thinking of tweaking the build (99 necro --> 40 necro 60 ss) to run Wraith form as an endless-AI hatchet weilding Slasher killer. I'll have to keep up Curse Weapon 100% of the time and therefore was going to run with protection on. I'm having trouble keeping 70/70/70/70/70 while in form and still fitting 45 HCI, 45 DCI, 40 LMC, 100 LRC, and 100 DI. The DI seems to be the toughest without the normal 40 or so from the weapon. I don't want to use Stormgrip because the resists are meh and it doesn't have LMC.

My concept used Spirit of the Totem, ring, and brace for the 45 HCI. 45 DCI came from Fey Legs, ring and brace. 40 LMC came from imbued arms, hands, chest, gorget, Cloak of Augmentation, and Totem of the Void. LRC is from gorget, chest, arms, hands, ring, and brace. DI is only on the ring and brace, 4 heartwood pieces (and weapon if I change your setup).

I know an easy solution is to drop LRC, but I really wanted to fit this for never ending Curse Weapons.

Since you had HLD on the weapon I was trying to run without M&S Glasses thus the Spirit of the Totem. I could use a Conjurer's Trinket, but then I need to squeeze LMC on either the ring or brace. I also don't have an extra Trinket so tried to fit in the Void.

Thoughts?

-OBSIDIAN-

LRC would be tough to fit into my suit. I use mace and shield, fey legs, and then imbued heartwood armor for all other pieces. Jewels are all HCI/DCI/DI, ring has 15 skill points and 5 ssi, brace has LMC and dex. Ranger cape, the robe with +5 int and 3 hp, and crimson. Talisman I use faction primer.

I've never been a fan on the wraith form build just because I don't want the hassle of using lrc.

My build drops rikktor really quickly but without parry on i feel like when he hits me and EQs i'm redlined.

 

[Gorbs]

...I know an easy solution is to drop LRC, but I really wanted to fit this for never ending Curse Weapons.

Thoughts?

-OBSIDIAN-

Curse Weapon only requires pig iron. If all you are planning to do is kill slasher, why not reduce the LRC from 100% to whatever amount you can fit (say 60%?) and carry a stack of ~1000 pig iron. When you start getting low, recall to house/bank and grab more.

 

[Obsidian]

Thanks guys. I'll rework the numbers without LRC tonight and see how it works. My initial use will be to battle Slasher. I will eventually branch him out for Demon spawns and Semidar.

-OBSIDIAN-

 

[[JD]]

lynk, it sounds like you're giving up on wanting to use the ornate more often?

i had planned to be able to use an ornate on my suit, planning 50 ssi (30 weap, 5 ring, 5 cloak, 10 tink legs), 182 fulltime sta (not much of a buffer)

but im running into all sorts of problems on my build. if i scrap the tink legs it solves so many things, but then i wont swing ornate at cap and would be better off optomizing for double axe usage.

do you think its worth me trying to use that ornate, or am i better off with a less-drive-me-insane build and going for the double axe.

so far with the right elemental resists and superslayer, eoo, consecrate i have been able to chop through a lot like butter. but i havent started getting into the really tough named stuff yet

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

You would need 55 SSI for an Ornate to still swing at the cap at 150 Stamina. At 180 Stamina you only need 35 SSI.

You can build a very easy 190 Stamina suit just with Mace & Shields and rest Imbued.

 

[[JD]]

yah thats what im leanin towards now. no more ranger aug cloak and tink legs. 35 ssi, and 40 sta inc on suit. solves issues with resists also

my main thing right now is im tryin to decide between m&s or spirit of totem for the head (rest imbued). spirit would save several mods on the jewels (stats, hci) but m&s adds hld. not sure which is more valuable

 

[Farsight]

HLD > HCI (-25% DCI for your opponent vs. up to 15% HCI for a single item)

But you could also get DCI on your weapon.

Big picture:
M&S is about 550 points of imbuing intensity (made an estimate on the resists)
Spirit of Totem is about 700 points of imbuing intensity (the 20 points of strength make a huge difference), but 100 of the points (RPD) aren't at all useful.

So you come out slightly ahead in points with the SotT, but it's close enough in my mind to make it six of one vs. half dozen of the other.

 

[Lynk]

lynk, it sounds like you're giving up on wanting to use the ornate more often?

I'm finding hatchet AIs are doing more damage than ornate crushing blows, unless I fight a mob with low physical. Ornate has a higher crit.. but damage over time with hatchet AI's seems to be better.

Not totally giving up on ornates, I will still use it for harrowers. I'm just using hatchets more regularly. So my 'champ weapons' are all hatchets. Still working on my slayer set. Double axe elemental damage slayers are proving more costly.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Are Hatchets with LJ higher than Hammer Picks for AI?

 

[Lynk]

Are Hatchets with LJ higher than Hammer Picks for AI?

Looks like hammer picks are a bit higher. But even with 180 stam and 40 ssi you're not swinging at cap.

 

[[JD]]

im just doing my double axes slowly...

bought a cubic arseload of dc hammers for 1k each and 60k ingots for 1 mil. just hammering them out and saving anything which looks interesting.

have made a nice demon and arachnid slayer so far. jury's out on the reptile slayer.

the 10 relics for ssi and super slayer is hard to stomach tho. luckily i got most my relics from unraveling.

ill have to investigate hatchet vs daisho for boss killin

 

[Lynk]

im just doing my double axes slowly...

bought a cubic arseload of dc hammers for 1k each and 60k ingots for 1 mil. just hammering them out and saving anything which looks interesting.

have made a nice demon and arachnid slayer so far. jury's out on the reptile slayer.

the 10 relics for ssi and super slayer is hard to stomach tho. luckily i got most my relics from unraveling.

ill have to investigate hatchet vs daisho for boss killin

When I do champ spawns I have my blue mystic PvP mage there to protect, since he's there I heal my sampire with cleansing winds. So I use hatchet for quicker killing.

If I was by myself with no one to heal or anything I would just use daishos and feint.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Looks like hammer picks are a bit higher. But even with 180 stam and 40 ssi you're not swinging at cap.

It needs 55.

 

[Lynk]

Just wanted to update this thread with the new LJ buff from pub 69.

For PVP - LJ bump is pretty insignificant. I don't think I'll be rebuilding my LJ Axer for PvP.

For PvM - I really like it. I didn't have a whole lot of time to play last night so I just did a dreadhorn. Same exact set up that is mentioned in the first post in this thread. I was using a hatchet.

Before my AIs capped at 190, I was hitting 220-230 now when the new dmg inc went off and it seemed to happen pretty regularly. I did crit for 245 with the hatchet once.

If all you are doing is LS then the impact might not be as big, because it isn't very often that you get a CRIT and the LJ dmg bump to go off in the same hit, whereas with AI you never really miss out on the extra damage.

I was really close to switching to macing and rebuilding my suit to fit insane tinker legs and use a hammer pick, but with the LJ bump I feel my damage exceeds the hammer pick damage now.

I also tested with the ornate and spamming crushing blow. To DH I was doing normal crushing blows for 140, when the damage inc went off I saw one go for 175. Crushing is much less mana intensive. When I chain AIs there is usually a point where I'll get a bad string of luck with leeching and AI once or twice. Never had to stop crushing. But crushing relies on low physical resist and crushing doesn't exceed the 300 cap so it is really only feasible on DH, and tbh I'd rather AI because its higher damage. I never was able to get a successful crit and LJ bonus on the same swing, but I'm pretty sure you can hit 300 dmg on a crit with it.

 

[Taylor]

Interesting. I like my leafblades, but I might have to give this a try.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I never was able to get a successful crit and LJ bonus on the same swing, but I'm pretty sure you can hit 300 dmg on a crit with it.

Idk about that, when it was on test and it was set at 5%, the highest Ornate critical was 255, that was with 150 Str, 100 DI, hitting the 300 cap, 120 Tact, 120 Anat, 100 LJ. I don't know if that 255 included the (apparent) bonus.

I was trying to find the top hit for everything in a single hit. The Ornate was 255, Soul Glaive 273, Heavy X Bow 291. (Not factoring DPS at all.)

 

[Zalan]

Sounds like your better off without Bushido if your just going to chain AI.

 

[Taylor]

I'd think that you would still want bushido for perfection.

 

[Quilnn]

One thing I learned about nonmedable items in affliction to ssi, is that medable items are lighter, therefore they can regenerate mana and stamina twice as fast than nonmedable items. I also learned that nonmedable items lower your chance to hit.

I tested this during a jousting tournament event on Catskill. My opponent went without armor. I decided to wear a full set of valorite platemail. Who do you think managed to get the most dismounts off? My Opponent. It's come to the conclusion that nonmedable armor lessens the chance of setting off a primary or secondary ability. Another reason why to skip on the Tinker legs with 10 ssi. Nonmed items are not worth it. Go for fey

 

[Klapauc]

One thing I learned about nonmedable items in affliction to ssi, is that medable items are lighter, therefore they can regenerate mana and stamina twice as fast than nonmedable items. I also learned that nonmedable items lower your chance to hit.

I tested this during a jousting tournament event on Catskill. My opponent went without armor. I decided to wear a full set of valorite platemail. Who do you think managed to get the most dismounts off? My Opponent. It's come to the conclusion that nonmedable armor lessens the chance of setting off a primary or secondary ability. Another reason why to skip on the Tinker legs with 10 ssi. Nonmed items are not worth it. Go for fey

Thats why my sampire that is human wears imbued valorite metal armor now and most others that are elf use wood armor.

 

[Ender]

I find it hard to believe nonmedable items affect anything other than ability to meditate and passive mana regen from meditation.

 

[Klapauc]

I find it hard to believe nonmedable items affect anything other than ability to meditate and passive mana regen from meditation.

Nonmedable items do not affect anything else besides weight.

 

[Hi_im_from_atl]

Just trained up LJ for pvp to test the new changes.

I am disappointed... ornate axe vs 70 phy it was hitting 20-23 then every once and a while it would hit a 26. Only thing I could think of was if it procted on a lighting strike crit it might be deadly but otherwise its only good for pretending to be a script lj at yew.

 

[Logrus]

If you go for max damage from conventional means.
150 Str
120 tactics
120 anatomy
100 LJ
100% DI


Base Dam: 18-20
(Using Max damage for calculations for convenience)
20 (Base) + 60 ( Anatomy Tactics and Strength and DI from items) (300% Dmg Cap)
LJ 20 or 30% of Base(cant remember right now) allowing exceeding of damage cap by (20 * .3 = 6)
= 86 base damage or +300% base = 400% base dam + 30% LJ = damage rating of 430% of Base Wep Damage
(Factoring in Slayers = 2x Super or 3x Reg slayer damage depending) = 172 or 258(300% of base swing damage)
Enemy of One = 150% -> 129
OR Enemy of one and Slayer = 258 (300% of Base Swing Damage)

You'll have an upper base damage of about 85 (as tested on TC) (If my % lj bonus is wrong and max is 85 then 300% of that damage would be 255 The Crit Cap LordGOD was hitting with slayers etc)
This means that a crit without modifiers (slayer Eoo) would hit for an upper of about 105 Max
Or 31.8 VS all 70's

 

[Lefty]

Nonmedable items do not affect anything else besides weight.

Wrong. You can have a mage with Legendary med. When non med armor is equipped you do not get a med bonus. It is zeroed. You cannot get passive med bonus or active med with non med armor.

The old saying plate,chain, and studded kill med has always been true.

You can even see the difference in Joat med.

 

[Klapauc]

Nonmedable items do not affect anything else besides weight.

Wrong. You can have a mage with Legendary med. When non med armor is equipped you do not get a med bonus. It is zeroed. You cannot get passive med bonus or active med with non med armor.

The old saying plate,chain, and studded kill med has always been true.

You can even see the difference in Joat med.

Thats why i did write nonmedable. Should have been more clear.

 

[Lynk]

Did a Rikki last night and was using my hatchet that had a focus gem used on it.

I saw an AI go for 333. Only one I've ever seen that high. Usually I max out at 319 when I get the LJ bump on the swing and I'm in the high damage window from focus gem. All the stars must have aligned for that one.

 

[Klapauc]

Did a Rikki last night and was using my hatchet that had a focus gem used on it.

I saw an AI go for 333. Only one I've ever seen that high. Usually I max out at 319 when I get the LJ bump on the swing and I'm in the high damage window from focus gem. All the stars must have aligned for that one.

Did never really think about this. If you are numerically above damage cap because of slayer weapon and enough di or perfection or eoo, you only receive the positive damage bonus from the focus gem and can negate the malus?
Is this true? I got a ton of these gems but did never try this.

 

[Lynk]

Did never really think about this. If you are numerically above damage cap because of slayer weapon and enough di or perfection or eoo, you only receive the positive damage bonus from the focus gem and can negate the malus?
Is this true? I got a ton of these gems but did never try this.

It doesn't negate the negative penalty from the focus gem, but it helps minimize the effect.