-
Hail Guest! We're looking for Community Content Contribuitors to Stratics. If you would like to write articles, fan fiction, do guild or shard event recaps, it's simple. Find out how in this thread: Community Contributions
-
Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
-
Hail Guest!, Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
-
Hail Guest! Please read the new announcement concerning the upcoming addition to Stratics. You can find the announcement Here!
- Status
From my point of view,pre-planned RP is too controlled and one-sided. Many times I have attended planned RP situations as a character that didn't have anything to do with the plot. I might as well not been there,because I was ignored and basically pushed to the side in a roleplay sense. The other reason I dislike over-planned RP is that typically the author of the session has already decided who will 'win' and 'lose'. If there's any interruption or detour to that ultimate goal,people tend to get upset and guilds get peaced and the community gets smaller.
I agree with this. The only thing I pre-plan is the demeanor/temperament of my characters and a very generalized back story.
Now.. you can have Pre planned events that are spontaneous as well. Just means you set a time up for something to happen and then rolled with it. Personally.. If the whole thing is planned, INCLUDING the outcome and you ignore other people (warred or not).. that isn't really rp.. That's just some numnuts writing a story.. in which case.. pack up your crap and go play by yourself.
Pre-planned and rehearsed are different things. I can set up a meeting and have no idea what will happen as a result, but I planned the RP interaction. I prefer spontaneous but sometimes you have to plan if you don't want to end up RPing with yourself. It's a fact that we don't have a large RP community and without at least a little planning in the form of taverns or generalized schedules between people it is very difficult to involve people in plots or storylines. On the other hand rehearsed RP is little more then tossing a set of lines at people and putting on your blinders to everyone and everything happening around you. It doesn't even really deserve to be called RP.
I like both. I love pre-planned events with undetermined outcomes. I love spontaneous on the spot rp. I love flexibility. Even in plots where certain goals have to be met, there are different paths of RP you can take to take to get there.
I recently ran a plot to get Jacuyl's body back. No one wanted to help ( and for good reason ! ) until I eventually found a couple people willing to fish it up. It was at its most basic a fishing SOS outing with RP tied in. Payment made with treasure.
If I hadn't found anyone to do the actual fishing, I would have found some other way to fetch me corpse. So don't go thinking there was hope for any of you virtuemongers!
Too scripted and you run the risk of exclusion when you ignore actions you don't like. This creates divides and negativity. It's also godmoding to just ignore RP happening at you.
I want to add that some of my best character progression and growth has happened due to spontaneous RP. Once of my characters on Atlantic was once held prisoner by a different group of evils. They ran her shoulders through. I Rped having the scars for years afterward, they never healed and they were ugly., But she had them before she was "turned" so she was stuck with them. Little things like that give characters more "life".
I recently ran a plot to get Jacuyl's body back. No one wanted to help ( and for good reason ! ) until I eventually found a couple people willing to fish it up. It was at its most basic a fishing SOS outing with RP tied in. Payment made with treasure.
If I hadn't found anyone to do the actual fishing, I would have found some other way to fetch me corpse. So don't go thinking there was hope for any of you virtuemongers!
Too scripted and you run the risk of exclusion when you ignore actions you don't like. This creates divides and negativity. It's also godmoding to just ignore RP happening at you.
I want to add that some of my best character progression and growth has happened due to spontaneous RP. Once of my characters on Atlantic was once held prisoner by a different group of evils. They ran her shoulders through. I Rped having the scars for years afterward, they never healed and they were ugly., But she had them before she was "turned" so she was stuck with them. Little things like that give characters more "life".
RP like life should happen naturally.
But as Thom stated, some set up of things do happen within the game, and out. There is nothing wrong with this at all so long as the events in game progress as they will, with no ending planned out.
And like Jacuyl, Aedon still carries the scars of past events on his body , events of the past stay a part of who he is.
But as Thom stated, some set up of things do happen within the game, and out. There is nothing wrong with this at all so long as the events in game progress as they will, with no ending planned out.
And like Jacuyl, Aedon still carries the scars of past events on his body , events of the past stay a part of who he is.
Spontaneous RP, aka "chasing the dragon" = sitting around in a tavern waiting for something to happen.
"Pre-planned" RP, more accurately called "setting the initial conditions and letting the chips fall where they may" = making something happen.
It's that simple, really.
"Pre-planned" RP, more accurately called "setting the initial conditions and letting the chips fall where they may" = making something happen.
It's that simple, really.
Except that pre-planned RP is sometimes too scripted and the "story tellers" don't like letting the chips fall where they may. One may as well be watching a story or reading a book if they are on the outside of that situation, as RPers involved will tend to get annoyed and ignore people trying to participate in their pre-planned storyline. You have to make sure you leave a certain amount up to fate to avoid this. There are many paths to the goal you are trying to seek.
I do agree though, about setting up and planning initial events and then seeing what happens.
What I don't understand is why you consider just tavern sitting as spontaneous RP. The very definition of spontaneous means any moment, any place, something could happen on the spot. To me, spontaneous is spontaneous and not limited to just that sitting around making small talk in a tavern. Very little would happen, other than casual dining and boozing and barfights.
I RP with anyone, anywhere, anytime. Banksitters, spammers, NPCs. It doesn't matter. You're all in danger. It's all fun. Besides, you never know who you can recruit to darkness if you do this.
I do agree though, about setting up and planning initial events and then seeing what happens.
What I don't understand is why you consider just tavern sitting as spontaneous RP. The very definition of spontaneous means any moment, any place, something could happen on the spot. To me, spontaneous is spontaneous and not limited to just that sitting around making small talk in a tavern. Very little would happen, other than casual dining and boozing and barfights.
I RP with anyone, anywhere, anytime. Banksitters, spammers, NPCs. It doesn't matter. You're all in danger. It's all fun. Besides, you never know who you can recruit to darkness if you do this.
I look at it like a trip....I can plan who I am taking and plan where I am going...
But I dont know who else will be there and what adventures or situations may arise !
But I dont know who else will be there and what adventures or situations may arise !
'Scripted' is a loaded word that implies a harsher meaning than the reality. There is no script in the sense that I say this, then you say that, then we come to a pre-determined conclusion to which everyone agreed to beforehand. All there are, are the initial conditions. A few characters want 'x'. Other characters want 'y'. Put x and y together and see what happens. Granted, maybe there are players out there who do stick to a strict script (now say that quickly 3 times), but the term 'scripted' or even 'pre-planned' all too often implies a greater amount of control than what usually exists.
What gives an onlooker the right to participate? Where is the line between appropriate response and inappropriate response? You had this to say before:
I've spent enough time in the past waiting for spontaneous RP to fall into my lap. So-called 'scripted' roleplay allows for a depth and complexity which is simply not possible in spontaneous RP (or at the very least, is extremely unlikely to develop naturally). Of course the quality of planned events depends on the organizer. Nevertheless, so much more variety and freedom is available in planned events. Consider the event in Buc's that you were present at a few days ago. What are the chances of such conditions happening spontaneously, on the spot, in the course of normal gameplay? Highly unlikely. Spontaneous RP is more likely to take place in the habitual hotspots (like taverns) and follow certain patterns. Planned events have the advantage of setting the rules and the conditions as well as offering a greater variety of settings than spontaneous RP ever will. It's all too obvious why planned events are the superior form.
That being said, spontaneous RP can also be loads of fun when something really interesting happens.
What gives an onlooker the right to participate? Where is the line between appropriate response and inappropriate response? You had this to say before:
What is the actual difference between a non-RPer *using his 125 str to punch your head clean off* and a roleplayer with a different perspective or style doing something that doesn't actually make sense, other than the perceived intent of the action? Why am I the godmodder if I ignore someone running through a meeting while spamming earthquake for no apparent reason and then later wondering why nobody is appropriately responding with *falls on the trembling ground* (and subsequently suggesting the meeting was therefore too 'scripted'). An RPer cannot be expected to respond to absolutely-everything-no-matter-what. The fact is, there is a line somewhere in a foggy gray area between what makes sense and what does not make sense. The only way to find the line is through cooperation and understanding.
First, a clarification. I do not consider tavern sitting as the sole source of spontaneous RP. Tavern nights are not an inherently bad thing, but from past observation I have come to understand that excessive tavern sitting is a sign and symptom of low activity and lack of inspiration. There is a time and a place for tavern sitting. At some point the tavern sitting must be supplemented with ongoing news and events. In other words, I can only make Tserim eat so much cake in a tavern. At some point he needs to drag his fat butt into an adventures to get his exercise.
I've spent enough time in the past waiting for spontaneous RP to fall into my lap. So-called 'scripted' roleplay allows for a depth and complexity which is simply not possible in spontaneous RP (or at the very least, is extremely unlikely to develop naturally). Of course the quality of planned events depends on the organizer. Nevertheless, so much more variety and freedom is available in planned events. Consider the event in Buc's that you were present at a few days ago. What are the chances of such conditions happening spontaneously, on the spot, in the course of normal gameplay? Highly unlikely. Spontaneous RP is more likely to take place in the habitual hotspots (like taverns) and follow certain patterns. Planned events have the advantage of setting the rules and the conditions as well as offering a greater variety of settings than spontaneous RP ever will. It's all too obvious why planned events are the superior form.
That being said, spontaneous RP can also be loads of fun when something really interesting happens.
I could not agree more!
Now I run (and I've taken a back seat recently) "shard-wide" RP storylines, mostly with the RBG guilds/squads/players of our shard. I sometimes do get elaborate and take a small group of 2-3 players that I basically enlist to help me carry out certain goals or play certain characters (we have several accounts that we give guild access to that folks make "throw-away" characters on for RP plotlines). I only tell them what characters I need players to step in to and what the general scope is, nothing much else. Then other players come and ask them questions or interrogate them or bring them in for questioning or downright arrest them. What happens then is up to them 100%!!! So I basically set up the stage, let them at it. I see this as no different than an EM planned RP storyline.
I also have my own GUILD ONLY storylines. These are things that unless you are integrally part of my guild you would have NO godly idea of what the hell is going on. Why should I share those? Even if it happens outside of my own lands... the lands are open to EVERYONE to do with as they wish. Thus, if we do not engage in depth with an outsider because we're doing an in guild storyline, folks shouldn't take offense to that and respect it. And let's face it some characters are just annoying to deal with... I know some folks say that about some of mine because of the Earthly references. But NOT all characters are fun to interact with because that's subjective to each of us.
And maybe I was of a different mindset back in the day when my guild had a ton of players, most of who were exceptional RPvP'ers, but that's no longer the case for my small guild of very casual players. So I have chosen to drop all highlights, unless their is a storyline that I am working with and issue a REAL declaration of war with an agreed to ROE. From now on that will be temporary and used as it was intended to be used for CoD.
Bottom line is people RP in very different ways and there is no RIGHT or WRONG way to RP and I am tired of hearing that you have to RP this way or that way for it to be "real RP" or that someone or a group doesn't deserve to call themselves RP'ers.... like really? Just respect others' way of RP, even if its not like your own.
Honestly, when it comes to role-playing, I enjoy both random interaction as well as arranged events with an outcome that's not determined prior. Unfortunately, the former seems to happen less and less due to a lower, aging UO population, and the latter has become a necessity to make sure that people log on.
For preplanned stuff, I am open to anyone interacting as long as it makes sense in-character, and feel that people need to be aware on both sides of the encounter. Someone shouldn't be ignored just because they randomly became involved, but other other hand, character logic shouldn't be completely suspended to accommodate everyone. If the Rangers are engaged in a secret stealth mission and suddenly encounter a cannibal clown who communicates via loud drum beats, the player of said cannibal clown shouldn't be offended if his character isn't invited along. On the other hand, the cannibal clown with the loud drum beat shouldn't be outright ignored either, and there could be some fun, unplanned interaction involving chasing him away or killing him or whatever. Nor is it right for the scheduled attendees of the arranged event to complain about a random presence, and I really hate when people use guild/party/global chat to whine about things like that. People should just be happy someone's interested enough to get involved. Real life is also never fair or preplanned, and I believe as role-players, our characters should emulate real life as much as possible within the restrictions of an online game system and mechanics, which is why I'm a big proponent of all role-players maintaining guild war status. Because in that scenario, the Rangers should have the option of forcefully kill or drive away the cannibal clown, just as the cannibal clown should have the option of trying to eat Rangers.
And really, from a character POV, there's no difference between the random and the arranged, so the OOC classification behind the interaction should never impact character reactions anyway.
For preplanned stuff, I am open to anyone interacting as long as it makes sense in-character, and feel that people need to be aware on both sides of the encounter. Someone shouldn't be ignored just because they randomly became involved, but other other hand, character logic shouldn't be completely suspended to accommodate everyone. If the Rangers are engaged in a secret stealth mission and suddenly encounter a cannibal clown who communicates via loud drum beats, the player of said cannibal clown shouldn't be offended if his character isn't invited along. On the other hand, the cannibal clown with the loud drum beat shouldn't be outright ignored either, and there could be some fun, unplanned interaction involving chasing him away or killing him or whatever. Nor is it right for the scheduled attendees of the arranged event to complain about a random presence, and I really hate when people use guild/party/global chat to whine about things like that. People should just be happy someone's interested enough to get involved. Real life is also never fair or preplanned, and I believe as role-players, our characters should emulate real life as much as possible within the restrictions of an online game system and mechanics, which is why I'm a big proponent of all role-players maintaining guild war status. Because in that scenario, the Rangers should have the option of forcefully kill or drive away the cannibal clown, just as the cannibal clown should have the option of trying to eat Rangers.
And really, from a character POV, there's no difference between the random and the arranged, so the OOC classification behind the interaction should never impact character reactions anyway.
Last edited:
Lets go with killing the cannibal clown.
On topic: Life is short, why waste it worrying or bickering when we could just be having fun playing a game we all enjoy? We all have ideas that can evolve into something bigger than we had planned. Something that starts spontaneously can suddenly become this tale involving many, many people.
The only bad RP is the RP that forces people out and away.
On topic: Life is short, why waste it worrying or bickering when we could just be having fun playing a game we all enjoy? We all have ideas that can evolve into something bigger than we had planned. Something that starts spontaneously can suddenly become this tale involving many, many people.
The only bad RP is the RP that forces people out and away.
I think its time for another RBG storyline Zuckuss with the fine fine sailors of the RBG's major Naval unit, K^S. You down?
Well said Judas.
Like you, I believe that highlights are an important part of RP. First off, it brings into any RP scenario the aspect of consequences for your words and actions. And secondly, it is a matter of trust extended to others within the game showing you believe the members of the community you are a part of will not misuse the highlight to carry out some silly ooc vendetta. I am pleased to say that in all my time playing UO that none of my highlights has ever breached this trust.
*Shudders at the thought of cannibal clowns*
Like you, I believe that highlights are an important part of RP. First off, it brings into any RP scenario the aspect of consequences for your words and actions. And secondly, it is a matter of trust extended to others within the game showing you believe the members of the community you are a part of will not misuse the highlight to carry out some silly ooc vendetta. I am pleased to say that in all my time playing UO that none of my highlights has ever breached this trust.
*Shudders at the thought of cannibal clowns*
- Awards
- 1
I guess that's why I am always RPing with myself...
Me too.
If you are entertained, that's all that matters.
No one can forcefully kill anyone else's character without their OOC consent. So it has to be taken OOC, period. And what I disagree with is the notion that a character can just kill someone they are warred with but then have to ROLE PLAY just hurting them or taking them prisoner or whatever AFTER they've been killed. So, you are role playing AFTER the fact anyways. So since you are limited in that sense, you can still ROLE PLAY the situation out except that now you are role playing from the BEGINING of an incident rather than having to go back to re-work what you just did. Its the same thing and the only thing you are taking out is the ability to kill someone with far less PvP-experienced than you. That's all. So I am taking that part out on behalf of my guild because they are NOT PvP'ers, are not trained to PvP, do not have suits made, and simply do not wish to engage in that. It is unnecessary.
If I was role playing a WAR... I would declare WAR with a specific set of parameters ---- which UO accounts for in diplomacy --- to determine a winner. It is why UO put the system into the game in the first place. How it was used, is used today, or whatever makes little difference to the fact they INTENDED to have active guild wars. I just chose to use it in the way it was intended... WAR between rival factions. It was what I intended when I created OvC and there was a lot more people around (on all sides) to engage in such activity... but alas we do not have those players actively playing anymore, thus there is no need to declare war.
When I said "kill," I meant mechanics-wise, in the sense of attempting an act of violence on another, rather than perma-killing a character in the role-playing sense (which I completely agree requires their consent). I had assumed that was obvious from the context, but if it wasn't, I've now clarified it. As for the other issues you've raised, let's just agree to disagree rather than rehash since I don't think anyone's opinion will change regarding guild wars. And if you at all felt compelled to respond because you felt my comments were directed at you or your guild, they 100% weren't.
The Caravan “Raid”
During OvC, the people who planned the plots arranged for a “supply caravan” Where the two factions of the “O” side would bring materials to each other (What was traded, I’ll never know. We’ll get to that).
Since it was OvC and not O playing nicely with each other, the “C” side needed intel about the caravan so we could interfere with the caravan’s progress. I believe this was arranged by a planned slip of the tongue during one or another tavern night. (Planned)
So the C-side decided we would interfere and created a plan of attack (Planned).
The day came, and nobody on the C side showed up! (Unplanned) (Someone had an unexpected RL issue, someone was sick, someone decided that being outnumbered wouldn't be fun and didn't show, others were just MIA that day)
Since I didn’t want the O side’s life to be boring, I went ahead and interfered with the caravan anyway. Since I was alone, I didn’t raid them, but just “happened” to run into them on the path. (Planned)
Uncharacteristically, Aneirin did not attack, harass, intimidate his enemies (VERY unplanned). But since PGoH knew the pirate very well, they wouldn’t let him anywhere near them, and still somehow resorted to force (Planned, but in character. There’s no way Aneirin and Eban would be in the same area at the same time without someone getting hurt).
Outnumbered, outgunned and with no chance, Aneirin did the only thing he would do in that situation. He fought back. (Unplanned, but predictable. And I wouldn’t want it to be too easy for them) Somehow he held his own for a while. He didn’t kill anyone (Darn good cross-healing, if I do say so myself), but they couldn’t stop Aneirin either (Tailored template for fighting PGoH and being outnumbered, I used a lot of soul stones that day! (very planned and quite possibly unfair, but better than making it an easy kill for the O-side)).
When the other side of the caravan approached, Aneirin dropped quickly (kind of planned. I knew there was no way out. No shame in losing that day).
It’s what happened next which surprised nearly everyone. Since Aneirin just got stomped on by more than 10 other people, I decided on the spot that their actions would have permanent consequences. I did some roleplay “bleeding out” thing (Honestly, I can’t remember the details) in order to prompt them to either leave him to die (seriously, he would have died. No more Aneirin!) or get him help. After some rather tense discussion on the O-side (I just moaned and emoted bloody things), they actually threw him in the healer’s in Umbra, saving his life.
Anyhow, that was my favorite kind of roleplay near the end of my UO-days. When planned actions led to unpredictable results. The scene that day wouldn’t have been possible without both scripting and improvisation.
During OvC, the people who planned the plots arranged for a “supply caravan” Where the two factions of the “O” side would bring materials to each other (What was traded, I’ll never know. We’ll get to that).
Since it was OvC and not O playing nicely with each other, the “C” side needed intel about the caravan so we could interfere with the caravan’s progress. I believe this was arranged by a planned slip of the tongue during one or another tavern night. (Planned)
So the C-side decided we would interfere and created a plan of attack (Planned).
The day came, and nobody on the C side showed up! (Unplanned) (Someone had an unexpected RL issue, someone was sick, someone decided that being outnumbered wouldn't be fun and didn't show, others were just MIA that day)
Since I didn’t want the O side’s life to be boring, I went ahead and interfered with the caravan anyway. Since I was alone, I didn’t raid them, but just “happened” to run into them on the path. (Planned)
Uncharacteristically, Aneirin did not attack, harass, intimidate his enemies (VERY unplanned). But since PGoH knew the pirate very well, they wouldn’t let him anywhere near them, and still somehow resorted to force (Planned, but in character. There’s no way Aneirin and Eban would be in the same area at the same time without someone getting hurt).
Outnumbered, outgunned and with no chance, Aneirin did the only thing he would do in that situation. He fought back. (Unplanned, but predictable. And I wouldn’t want it to be too easy for them) Somehow he held his own for a while. He didn’t kill anyone (Darn good cross-healing, if I do say so myself), but they couldn’t stop Aneirin either (Tailored template for fighting PGoH and being outnumbered, I used a lot of soul stones that day! (very planned and quite possibly unfair, but better than making it an easy kill for the O-side)).
When the other side of the caravan approached, Aneirin dropped quickly (kind of planned. I knew there was no way out. No shame in losing that day).
It’s what happened next which surprised nearly everyone. Since Aneirin just got stomped on by more than 10 other people, I decided on the spot that their actions would have permanent consequences. I did some roleplay “bleeding out” thing (Honestly, I can’t remember the details) in order to prompt them to either leave him to die (seriously, he would have died. No more Aneirin!) or get him help. After some rather tense discussion on the O-side (I just moaned and emoted bloody things), they actually threw him in the healer’s in Umbra, saving his life.
Anyhow, that was my favorite kind of roleplay near the end of my UO-days. When planned actions led to unpredictable results. The scene that day wouldn’t have been possible without both scripting and improvisation.
WOTS BEEES RP???
And that was how I have always intended OvC to be... some slight pre-planning just to get folks to be on at the same time, throw some rules around it, and then watching it unfold organically. But Aneirin, UP and I (as you know) were the only ones that really stayed true to that concept. I remember Hawkeye wanting it more than anything. But again, some folks just didn't like the idea of dropping old, worn out highlights to engage in something new and exciting. That was a shame! We had SOOOOO much fun doing things like that! I miss you Aneirin!
Farsight.. you bring up a wonderful point! Thank you! And it's one my own guild was discussing amongst ourselves the other day... No you can't kill anyone without their consent.. on a perma basis.. But.. If you rp a situation where the person attacked goes down, and goes down easily.. there should be wounds. Perma death should at least be discussed. Let's face it.. if you play a "You can't kill me.. I'm immortal and and and Demon.. and a time lord and and the most powerful sorcerer of all time." Then well.. what you really are is an idiot.
Situations need to be met with some kind of realistic consequences. If you leave a door unlocked and open.. A Stealther CAN get in. They MAY choose to murder someone. If you waltz into enemy territory unarmed and you have already insulted or otherwise threatened them, ya may get your tushy handed to you. That's where the spontaneous comes in. I love setting up situations loosely, but I love it even more when things take on their own life.. their own story and I don't know what is coming next.
Now truth be told, you can rp all of that being blue but the emotes just aren't the same as really smacking the character with your weapon. Because as long as you stay blue, you can't compete using the skills we've all worked so hard on. For example: Being blue and saying you are 120 fencing when you aren't.. and trying to pull that off in rp will get you laughed at. Pulling out the kryss with poison and doing damage, get's the point across.
The Rangers do a lot where we have half of us the villains, and half of us the good guys. With Axis now.. it looks like that may not be needed quite so much. However we do all love playing both sides!
Situations need to be met with some kind of realistic consequences. If you leave a door unlocked and open.. A Stealther CAN get in. They MAY choose to murder someone. If you waltz into enemy territory unarmed and you have already insulted or otherwise threatened them, ya may get your tushy handed to you. That's where the spontaneous comes in. I love setting up situations loosely, but I love it even more when things take on their own life.. their own story and I don't know what is coming next.
Now truth be told, you can rp all of that being blue but the emotes just aren't the same as really smacking the character with your weapon. Because as long as you stay blue, you can't compete using the skills we've all worked so hard on. For example: Being blue and saying you are 120 fencing when you aren't.. and trying to pull that off in rp will get you laughed at. Pulling out the kryss with poison and doing damage, get's the point across.
The Rangers do a lot where we have half of us the villains, and half of us the good guys. With Axis now.. it looks like that may not be needed quite so much. However we do all love playing both sides!
I think Farsight gave a very nice example from the past of a good mix. The only thing I disagreed with in his post was where he called it scripting at the end. It was a bare minimum of planning to ensure that people were around and something would happen. To me scripting that particular conflict would have been sitting down and deciding the entire sequence of events before hand and not deviating from them even if more people had showed up on the Chaos side. On the subject of highlights I will say that everyone is entitled to their opinion of how they should work, but the rp guilds on catskills have traditionally maintained highlights between each other to allow for more organic rp between the groups. That means if I want to have a bar brawl with Aedon tomorrow night in Galehaven then it's possible, however unlikely that is to happen. It means that should a situation warrant it I can threaten someone and they can't hide behind invulnerable status (blue) and act in a manner that is unrealistic, and should I be on the receiving end it is so much more satisfying to say I got away when they can actually hit me. PGoH has always and will always maintain highlights with rp guilds that follow an acceptable RoE, and for the record not all of our members are even interested in pvp.
That's why he needs to get that cape back from his cleaner.Blues make Va'lis sad.
Captn Norrington
Stratics Forum Moderator
Moderator
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
Spontaneous is much better in my opinion. I miss the old days where you could go wandering through the forest and find at least 1 or 2 events going on no matter what time it was. Pre-planned RP is what I call, griefer bait. If they know when it is, where it is, and what it is, they have days to plan how to disrupt and destroy the event.
In my experience I really like spontaneous RP. That being said...I believe there's a way to balance the two. I've roleplayed in various way for over a decade (Including UO and traditional D&D). Do I like "preplanned events"? No. Do I like dynamic "roleplaying scanarios" that have an undetermined outcome at the onset where the RP determines the next stage of the plot or the next "Scenario"? Yes. I have countless stories of this type of roleplay from my other shard that I had the pleasure of RPing on for years and years.
When I'm the one with a plot idea, I generally say "Hey that's an awesome plot idea, I'd like to see how that would play out and how certain characters would react or not to this initial plot". The direction of the plot must ALWAYS be influenced by those who are directly involved, never preplanned or godmoded in anyway. It takes a certain type of player to accept that and be able to adapt to the different sections of a plot. Also, just because you initialize and begin a plot, it doesn't mean you're going to get the outcome that most benefits your character or the outcome you as a player would like to see. I've run into this time and time again as a DM in my table top D&D games.
When I'm the one with a plot idea, I generally say "Hey that's an awesome plot idea, I'd like to see how that would play out and how certain characters would react or not to this initial plot". The direction of the plot must ALWAYS be influenced by those who are directly involved, never preplanned or godmoded in anyway. It takes a certain type of player to accept that and be able to adapt to the different sections of a plot. Also, just because you initialize and begin a plot, it doesn't mean you're going to get the outcome that most benefits your character or the outcome you as a player would like to see. I've run into this time and time again as a DM in my table top D&D games.
To address the original question of the thread, I take issue with the phrase 'pre-planned / rehearsed'. Just as Thom demonstrated here:
Spontaneous RP is great. It's sudden, unexpected, thrilling and novel. It also bears the risk of becoming habitual, predictable, and uninspired. Perhaps if this game had more people and what I would consider a more robust sandbox environment, then it could be considered a superior form. But given our current circumstances, it simply is not.
And just as Alaundril has demonstrated here:
To call it pre-planned or rehearsed lends a meaning which is simply inaccurate. Personally I prefer the term 'Organized RP'. The quality of organized RP depends, of course, on the organizers. It establishes rules and sets expectations. It puts everyone on the same page. It is a tool kit that gives groups of players greater flexibility to build more interesting experiences. It allows for situations, conditions, complexity and depth not possible otherwise. It pays a respect to an overall narrative, which is not limited to simply the stories of characters, but also the quality of the players' experiences.
Spontaneous RP is great. It's sudden, unexpected, thrilling and novel. It also bears the risk of becoming habitual, predictable, and uninspired. Perhaps if this game had more people and what I would consider a more robust sandbox environment, then it could be considered a superior form. But given our current circumstances, it simply is not.
I respect your position, but will offer a disagreement. Sticking to supposed 'intended' uses is not what UO is all about. In fact time and time again, the history of UO is marked with new and innovating ways to play the game. Was bagball ever intended? Backpack art? I can tell you spiral staircases were definitely not intended, yet there they are. And war declarations do not have to be limited to a strict situation of "I (RP-)hate you and you (RP-)hate me so let's duke it out until 1000 deaths". It can be used as a tool in the right hands to provide situations otherwise not possible in the world of consensual PVP.
And some people will still not drop "Old worn out highlights" and the reason as I stated at the time was simply. Many of the guilds on my HL list were long gone, and as a person with a deep love of the shard history, I choose to maintain them on the list.And that was how I have always intended OvC to be... some slight pre-planning just to get folks to be on at the same time, throw some rules around it, and then watching it unfold organically. But Aneirin, UP and I (as you know) were the only ones that really stayed true to that concept. I remember Hawkeye wanting it more than anything. But again, some folks just didn't like the idea of dropping old, worn out highlights to engage in something new and exciting. That was a shame! We had SOOOOO much fun doing things like that! I miss you Aneirin!
I do see the benefit of both spontaneous and pre-planned get-togethers. I, however, do not like the preplanned RP event where everything is decided beforehand. Such as who 'wins', which seems to always be the one that authored the RP event in the first place. Another gripe of mine that I might as well share here. It is the use of icq or guild chat to influence the outcome of an RPvP situation. Way back when I first started, I was playing a bad guy and I had this 'helpless' woman at the tip of my sword just to have a rogue, which was in the same guild, pop up out of nowhere to come to the rescue. If I were anywhere near the guild hall, I could accept it as a chance rescue, but me and the woman was out in the middle of nowhere. Just saying that IC, what my character knows, and what I am being told through guild chat or icq shouldn't mix even a little bit.
Aedon, I agree with you completely on this. Sometimes it's nice to just look back and see what once was. I regret not having a lot of my old guilds, though I still have one from around 2004 that isn't even in use anymore but I like being able to look back at the roster and the guild wars and remembering.
I maintain what I said at that time, today. Shard history does not need to rely on an in game mechanic for it to be remembered. I respect the decision that folks make in this regard, but I simply do not agree with it. Shard history is alive and well in folks' memory and even detailed in some respects here on Stratics or in various other places, too. Hanging on to those sentiments can limit you to stay stagnant and not ... "move with the times", especially since mechanics in this game (even those you have relied upon for years, such as Factions) can and do change.
I do understand there are other circumstances where highlights can't be easily managed. For example, PGoH at that time considered doing it but they had an alliance of guilds for various purposes (one being jousting competitions) in where they had no way to access guild management functions for those sub-guilds. Borg was still the stonemaster for all their guilds at that time. That's a different story and completely understandable to me, yet they still participated in OvC and we had a GREAT time doing so. I really enjoyed the interactions between us (on the Order side) and UP (on the Chaos side) especially. But the lack of others participating made it difficult to sustain. It has to be a collective effort and holding on to old highlights for nostalgic purposes was very limiting for what was being designed. I had had high hopes coming back and getting back into the RP with my folks; I had a lot more folks back then than I do now by far. We really did want the rivalry of old times... the good vs. evil experience within the realm of role play.
Today, its a different story for CoD. I don't have as many online as I did and lack the folks that enjoyed RPvP battles, thus it is simply not safe for my people to be highlighted to anyone as they cannot aptly defend themselves. I simply do not trust anyone here not to kill them for the sake of killing them and going "god mode" on them, doing the bare minimums to sustain pre-determined RoE's. That has been made very clear to me and not just from my own experiences but experiences told to me by members of other guilds. Thus CoD will not highlight to anyone.
I do understand there are other circumstances where highlights can't be easily managed. For example, PGoH at that time considered doing it but they had an alliance of guilds for various purposes (one being jousting competitions) in where they had no way to access guild management functions for those sub-guilds. Borg was still the stonemaster for all their guilds at that time. That's a different story and completely understandable to me, yet they still participated in OvC and we had a GREAT time doing so. I really enjoyed the interactions between us (on the Order side) and UP (on the Chaos side) especially. But the lack of others participating made it difficult to sustain. It has to be a collective effort and holding on to old highlights for nostalgic purposes was very limiting for what was being designed. I had had high hopes coming back and getting back into the RP with my folks; I had a lot more folks back then than I do now by far. We really did want the rivalry of old times... the good vs. evil experience within the realm of role play.
Today, its a different story for CoD. I don't have as many online as I did and lack the folks that enjoyed RPvP battles, thus it is simply not safe for my people to be highlighted to anyone as they cannot aptly defend themselves. I simply do not trust anyone here not to kill them for the sake of killing them and going "god mode" on them, doing the bare minimums to sustain pre-determined RoE's. That has been made very clear to me and not just from my own experiences but experiences told to me by members of other guilds. Thus CoD will not highlight to anyone.
You must have a much better memory than I do because I only wish I could remember half the characters and guilds I've probably forgotten. Unfortunately, a lot of it isn't detailed or remembered here on Stratics or anywhere else. For example, Ken Masters' UOTC boards, which is where guilds like the Shadow Clan and Picts and Dark Rychen and Glamervelt Elves and the Undead and dozens of other guilds initially gathered is long gone, and I'm sure there's not many left who even remember the UOTC boards, which were the primary spot from like 1998-2001/2002 (I forget when it went down exactly). Sure, you can find references here and there, and there's always human memory, but it really isn't the same, and I regret not preserving more of the past.
I do agree with you completely about stagnancy and adapting to the times, but I don't understand how that would require a guild to get rid of their old highlights. Was it that exceptions were made for some reasons (such as PGOH's highlight issues) but not others (such as those who wanted to keep their old wars for more nostalgic reasons)?
As for the last part of your post, all I can say is that I think it's unfortunate that you feel that way. I am glad that you are at least conceding that it's your position has changed, rather than trying to argue that the system shouldn't be used for the purpose that it's traditionally been used for. But in all seriousness, you and I have had our disagreements here and there, but do you really think that if the Rangers of Spiritwood and the Children of Darkness had war highlighting, we'd suddenly be looking for excuses to attack you guys at every possible opportunity? You know as well as I do that one of my characters has legitimately known that Pandora and the rest of the Children of Darkness are vampires for at least six months now, yet that character has never revealed that to anyone because that character promised not to and its in that character's nature to uphold a promise. If I really valued screwing with you over my own RP integrity, that character would've told the world months ago. People are not out to get you as much as you think.
A name on a stone does not help one remember, memorable moments are not forgotten easily and again ---- FACTIONS being case in point ---- mechanics can and DO change. At some point UO could change the way alliances work and have to wipe everyone clean. Then what? Can't rely on mechanics that can change over time like that. That's been my opinion since day 1 of that argument: in game mechanics cannot be relied upon as historical records.
My position for anyone that has known me since my return has NEVER changed. I believed then, believe now, and will continue to believe ... war declares should be used for declaring WAR. They should have a set of parameters that determines the winner. Ask anyone about that! The position of my guild and the majority of those players that still play in CoD has changed, they do not wish to engage in any PvP that is "god mode'd" on them where they are killed and then have to RP injuries after being basically one-shotted. No...
Let's be clear here... what was revealed to you was that one particular character (not any of mine) was in fact a vampire, and she told me as it was happening. She never spoke for the family, only for herself. Your assumption from that that all CoD were also vampires would be completely untrue. Fact is, NOT ALL CoD are vampires --- we have witches, and werewolves, and fairies, and half-breeds, and gargoyle watchers, and yes... humans... absolutely. And many of us have other worldly talents and know-how to hide it very very well. You and I have never had that conversation, ever. Not once.
Thank you for telling me how my memory works and how my mind associates words and images. Up until now, I'd been lost.
As for not changing your stance, I guess I misread and thought you had come around and thought it was reasonable for people to have war status for interacting. My apologies.
So you know more about a conversation you weren't present for than I do? In fact, Pandora, Marius, Merida, Armand, Bianca, and a few others that my character knew of were outed as vampires to my character, and you are welcome to confirm it with the Children of Darkness character who told my character about it. No one needs your out of character permission to share in-character knowledge, to require otherwise would contravene the point of role-playing. It's weird how you took my point about how I'm not out out to screw you over and twisted it into some control freak statement about how my character can't know what he knows.
@Merida Douglas was on the phone with me when it happened, she did not speak about anyone but herself because of her direct relation to Va'lis. You are welcomed to ask her directly. So either a) she's lying to me, or b) you are. Because she assured me she did not tell anyone anything about the family, only her own circumstance. Doubt its her!
Last edited:
Okay I'm going to say this now, lets stop arguing about this before we start cause it'll only end badly and with a locked thread, And we all know it's not going to be resolved. And to be honest I'm personally tired of reading the same discussions over and over lol.
You are more than welcome to your way of looking at things, and I have a right to my way of viewing Shard history. I have had a deep connection with all the guilds on my list, and keeping something so small as their names alive on my highlight list is a small way to honor their real contribution to Cats. It is when people start to see that remembering what has past is worthless that we lose some of the richness that has always been the Catskills RP community. If it will help you, look at my highlight list as a photo album containing the images of friends and family long past.
As to the make up of your guild , so far all Aedon knows for sure is that Pandy is a vampire. (yes, you told him so in a public place long ago. You never used and ((ooc)) quotes, and even had you done so, I do not recognize those brackets as a pass for talking out of character. In public, in the open, Aedon is always in character and what he learns from other characters, he knows. That does not mean that he will announce it to the world, nor come hunting Pandy down with a collection of designer stakes.
Love ya Blueberries
Clearly my desire to keep character names anonymous has failed. Yes, it was Merida. No, the discussion was not solely limited to Va'lis. Yes, Merida stated that all of the characters I just mentioned were also vampires. Yes, Merida and my character had subsequent conversations about it in-game. Yes, Merida even told me that she told you that she mentioned all of those characters. I am not lying. I am not calling Merida a liar. I am not calling you a liar. I have no idea as to the substance of the conversation between you and her and I'm not going to speculate, but I know what I experienced and I'm 100% certain my version and hers are consistent.
I'm also 100% certain she will be annoyed by this discussion and be even more hesitant to play on Catskills if/when she returns.
Anyway, if you want to call me a liar, that's your prerogative, I guess. But I'm not going to respond on this issue further, unless you make fun of my hair.
And to return this to on-topic, this incident was a perfect example of an unplanned RP scenario. My character and Merida's character had unplanned, spontaneous interactions that led to the above disclosure. There was also a lot of interesting character conflict that resulted from this. It was one of my favorite interactions since returning to Catskills, and would never have worked if it had been preplanned or scripted.
I do wish that you would have listed all the reasons we (PGoH) gave for not agreeing to drop highlights to join an alliance instead of the ones that serve the purpose of your argument. The alliance issue was a part of it but other issues included the history as Aedon has stated, being able to interact with non participating guild in the community as we had been, and probably most importantly not wanting to allow another guild to have control of our highlight status. Even if for some reason the highlight and alliance lists were cleared we still would not join an alliance where we were not the leader. Borg was, is and probably will forever hold the stone for PGoH. If needed we can get ahold of him and he keeps active accounts though he doesn't play all the time, and we have several emissary and warlard characters to handle the day to day running of the guild. Let's face it, the only thing we really need Borg for at this point is setting titles for characters that are above member status. We had no problems interacting with the OvC theme with our highlight list intact nor would anyone else have had. In the event that some unseen Highlights are not all about RPvP battles. Probably 90% of PGoH at this time aren't interested in battling anyone but we maintain highlights with most RP guilds on the shard at the time. It's a shame that you feel so poorly about the community that you think dropping highlights is the answer, but it is your choice and doesn't really bother me all that much as we have very little interaction outside of governor meetings.
Scarst is right.
Just stay away from us. PERIOD. The world is big enough that we don't have to interact with each other AT ALL. So... stop trying.
Just stay away from us. PERIOD. The world is big enough that we don't have to interact with each other AT ALL. So... stop trying.
Annnnyway.
I think it's time this thread got back on track.
Each kind of RP has a time and place that is perfect for it. And Preplanned can lead into some of the best Spontaneous RP.
That is after all what we are here to discuss, the kind of RP.
I think it's time this thread got back on track.
Each kind of RP has a time and place that is perfect for it. And Preplanned can lead into some of the best Spontaneous RP.
That is after all what we are here to discuss, the kind of RP.
- Status