[Imbuing] Relic Frags Made Easy

[Petra Fyde]

How do you figure they are only needed for top level imbuing?
Yesterday I was asked to make a weapon, scnp, hci, ssi. that's 4 properties, 3 of them needed relic fragments. I'd like to put lmc on my Siege char's suit. I need relic fragments, no matter what intensity I do it.

 

[The Scandinavian]

Hi there,

you are right Petra.Many properties need relics ,difference is only how many depending on intensity.

The only thing I can say is that instead of making properties that needs rare reagents like essences and so on first make properties that need relic first.Reason behind that is that you lose relics on fails but not rare reagent.

Ofcourse many properties needs both relics and rare reagents.


Regards
The Scandinavian

 

[hawkeye_pike]

How do you figure they are only needed for top level imbuing?
Yesterday I was asked to make a weapon, scnp, hci, ssi. that's 4 properties, 3 of them needed relic fragments. I'd like to put lmc on my Siege char's suit. I need relic fragments, no matter what intensity I do it.

HCI, DCI, SSI, LMC, MR are the most valuable properties you can have on weapons and armor (especially for PvP). Hence the requirement of Relic Fragments.

 

[Connor_Graham]

You imbued 200 hammers manually or used some sort of macro?

Manually. Took the better part of 6 hours.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Relic Fragments are a basic ingredient, meaning you need them for even the lowest intensities of 1%-90% and for several popular properties and you lose them on fail.

Seeds of renewal are a special ingredient necessary only for the 90% and above intensities. Even still you can make HPR1, MR1 and SR2 without the seeds. You don't lose any seeds on fail.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

Relic Fragments are a basic ingredient, meaning you need them for even the lowest intensities of 1%-90% and for several popular properties and you lose them on fail.

Seeds of renewal are a special ingredient necessary only for the 90% and above intensities. Even still you can make HPR1, MR1 and SR2 without the seeds. You don't lose any seeds on fail.

No, you need Relic Fragments only for those properties that are VERY valuable on an item, as I explained above. For those properties you will need them even for low intensities. Even 10% SSI is more useful than a 40% Hit Dispel or 40% Stamina Leech.

Most other properties require Relic Fragments only at highest intensities, which means you can completely avoid using the Relics if you keep the intensity below maximum.

This is equivalent to properties like SSI and HCI also being the rarest when using runic crafting tools.

 

[Shelleybean]

No, you need Relic Fragments only for those properties that are VERY valuable on an item, as I explained above. For those properties you will need them even for low intensities. Even 10% SSI is more useful than a 40% Hit Dispel or 40% Stamina Leech.

Most other properties require Relic Fragments only at highest intensities, which means you can completely avoid using the Relics if you keep the intensity below maximum.

This is equivalent to properties like SSI and HCI also being the rarest when using runic crafting tools.

I agree with Ezekiel that relic fragments are meant to be a core material. I think out of the core materials, relics are meant to be the rarest, but not the absolute rarest in the imbuing equation. This is why high end (maximum intensity) imbuing requires rare materials such as crystalline blackrock. You can settle for less, but if you want the best you need the rare materials.

And as far as I know, there isn't any type of imbue that switches from magical residue all the way up to relics if you increase the intensity. I can imbue 1% LRC up to 20% LRC using magical residue, it will just take more residue plus faery dust.

I feel that the developers are leaving us with few reasonable ways of acquiring relics. They've already eliminated nearly all minor artifacts from doing so and in time, nothing crafted or enhanced will be able to produce relics. Oh well, gotta get back to stockpiling relics.

 

[Connor_Graham]

No, you need Relic Fragments only for those properties that are VERY valuable on an item, as I explained above. For those properties you will need them even for low intensities. Even 10% SSI is more useful than a 40% Hit Dispel or 40% Stamina Leech.

Most other properties require Relic Fragments only at highest intensities, which means you can completely avoid using the Relics if you keep the intensity below maximum.

I haven't seen this yet. If a property calls for relic frags it uses them at any level of intensity as one of the base ingredients (residue, essence, and frags). Which properties are you talking about?

 

[hawkeye_pike]

You are right about that.

 

[Edward of LS]

This may be slightly off topic, but does have to do with how hard RF's are to get. I recently started on another shard, so my crafting options were limited. The only "craft" skill I have is imbueing so I needed another way to get frag's besides straight crafting. The guild I joined (the reason for moving there really) is quite large and peerless events are run weekly if not several time a week. We ended up doing the dread horn and when I unravelled the items from the 3 strong boxes I got 2 frags. I checked and the only (I think) repeatable quest for strong boxes is the minotaur one. After hammering it out a couple times I found that the average is one RF per 3 quests. (Sometimes I stike out, but sometimes I get more so the average is there) The longest part of the quest is doing the gaman horns. The other items needed are either kill a red healer (no sweat there) and getting the minotaur artifacts (either stealth or invis works (use prot to make sure you get it off)). So it takes time to get the RF, but not really that hard. I do not think that the crafting methods are that easy when you add in the time it took to get the GM/Legendary smiths/tinkers/bowcrafters in the first place, I know right now that's not time I'm willing to put in so more power to the ones who can do it. I'll keep killing gamon.

 

[Yen Sid]

Well I did the Tinkering a val hammer and imbuing it method tonight and it no longer works This is on Origin btw. Is there ever going to be a way that doesn't get nerfed?

 

[hawkeye_pike]

Unraveling valorite hammers by using the method described above does not yield relic fragments anymore. I just tested after the server came back up after the patch.

People will complain, but I think this change was necessary.

 

[The Scandinavian]

Hi there,

typical.I got the 10k loyalty poiunts just a week ago.
I wanted to get some easy relics like the rest of you.

*sighs*

Back to my old method then...


Regards
The Scandinavian

 

[Shelleybean]

Hi there,

typical.I got the 10k loyalty poiunts just a week ago.
I wanted to get some easy relics like the rest of you.

*sighs*

Back to my old method then...


Regards
The Scandinavian

The method using the knight's war cleaver still works, but the items needed are harder to get.

 

[Theo_GL]

Manually. Took the better part of 6 hours.

well, this method no longer works - but it shouldn't take 6 hrs.

What you do is get a bag of 50 hammers or so nicely arranged. Then imbue the property on the first hammer - then do 'reimbue last property' and click next hammer. So you don't have to go setting the %'ages more than once.

Hit all 50 hammers - then come back with property #2.

I would do bags of 35 hammers and it wouldn't take more than 20 min or so even with fails.

 

[Yen Sid]

The method using the knight's war cleaver still works, but the items needed are harder to get.

Great if you have a Blacksmith... I GMed Tinkering just to try this lol. I got 200 but sold them because I had no use for them atm and figured other people might. I wanted to get a stock built up but that won't happen now *sigh*

 

[Kallie Pigeon]

If you don't have enough skill to unravel a relic will you just get a message or will it unravel as essence?

 

[Storm]

you get a message or you used to who knows what they have done now!
personally I just wish they would tell us how they want us to make them!

 

[Obsidian]

Well this is a bummer. I didn't stock up on relic frags as I didn't think they would change this. It is hard enough to get them and I was actually glad the price was starting to come down on vendors in town. I tried the method I mentioned above using valorite maces (crafted by a smith instead of a tinker) in hopes it was a change to the hammer tool. No go... same imbue that gave me 1 relic gave me 2 enchanted essence.

So how did the computation change? They must have adjusted either the value of valorite or something in the weighting equation Chrome explained above.

-OBSIDIAN-

 

[hawkeye_pike]

There are ways to circumvene Relic Fragments. For example: The following repeating crossbow is quite a good monster hunting weapon:

Repond Slayer (*)
20% Swing Speed Increase (*)
45% Damage Increase
30% Hit Life Leech
30% Hit Stamina Leech

You know what it cost me to create this weapon? About 15k worth of simple gems and a couple of Magical Residue and Enchanted Essence. That's all.

This bow comes from a level 4 (!!!) treasure chest, and the attributes with (*) were already on it.

If you are creative and have a little patience, you won't need many Relic Fragments or rare ingredients for imbuing.

 

[Lorax_Pacific]

<snip>

If you are creative and have a little patience, you won't need many Relic Fragments or rare ingredients for imbuing.

I don't agree with you. Everything that takes a relic are important magic properties to add to weapons and armor and I need a ton of relics to play this game. Plus, the relics are lost by chance in the imbuing process upon fail. All of the resources obtained through natural means are very time consuming to obtain, even the way people were crafting and imbuing to get relics that required valorite and various resources.

I hope people stop posting how to get relics because in my opinion telling the developers how the game works is a loss for crafters.

Aside: Why did the developers nerf imbuing and not publish the nerf in a change log or their news?

-Lorax

 

[spoonyd]

I don't agree with you. Everything that takes a relic are important magic properties to add to weapons and armor and I need a ton of relics to play this game. Plus, the relics are lost by chance in the imbuing process upon fail. All of the resources obtained through natural means are very time consuming to obtain, even the way people were crafting and imbuing to get relics that required valorite and various resources.

I hope people stop posting how to get relics because in my opinion telling the developers how the game works is a loss for crafters.

Aside: Why did the developers nerf imbuing and not publish the nerf in a change log or their news?

-Lorax

And it's a shame crafters can't share information like that on here only to get hit with the nerf stick. Hopefully people will figure out some new half decent ways of creating frags even if they aren't in MASS quantity like before.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

I don't agree with you. Everything that takes a relic are important magic properties to add to weapons and armor and I need a ton of relics to play this game. Plus, the relics are lost by chance in the imbuing process upon fail. All of the resources obtained through natural means are very time consuming to obtain, even the way people were crafting and imbuing to get relics that required valorite and various resources.

I hope people stop posting how to get relics because in my opinion telling the developers how the game works is a loss for crafters.

Aside: Why did the developers nerf imbuing and not publish the nerf in a change log or their news?

-Lorax

Did you read my posting at all? This weapon was made WITHOUT relic fragments or rare ingredients. It came from a Level 4 treasure map and was imbued afterwards.

Besides, I don't think it is desirable that only a handful of people know about an exploit, abuse it excessively, and rip off all other players by charging for an item 10 times more than it is worth.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Actually, shutting off the method to make relic fragments only goes to further promote the gouging. Frags will once again rise in price and the ones who made thousands of them will sell them off at a huge markup.

 

[Silverbird]

Not only that .... It also means a bone for the scriptors. I usually refuse to buy anything from them but now? After I would ahve used up my own stockpile of perfect emeralds I might need to buy from them if i am in a hurry and need relics.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

Actually, shutting off the method to make relic fragments only goes to further promote the gouging. Frags will once again rise in price and the ones who made thousands of them will sell them off at a huge markup.

I don't believe many people have exploited this in such an extreme way. That's the advantage of fixing such issues without announcing it. It catches the exploiters by surprise.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

Not only that .... It also means a bone for the scriptors. I usually refuse to buy anything from them but now? After I would ahve used up my own stockpile of perfect emeralds I might need to buy from them if i am in a hurry and need relics.

Scripting is a separate issue, which will always harm the game. You cannot solve it by just turning rare items into mass items that lose its value. By doing that, you'd kill the game even more.

Scripting has to be countered by improving client technology (you can thank the Legacy Client lovers for preventing such a development) and by active support personell, i.e. Game Masters. And, most of all, by making the game content dynamic, not static as it currently is. (Static meaning that resources can be found always in the same spot, monsters behaving predictably, mindless repetitive tasks like BODs.)

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Well, yeah that's true too but everyone has been testing what can unravel into relic frags every time a pub comes out. Most methods found their way to Stratics for all to see, learn and utilize. Since they've been nerfing a method with every new pub, it was well understood they'd probably nerf the latest one too. Next they'll likely nerf the recipes method too.

I only tested the tinkered hammer method. I guess I should get crackin on the war cleaver one and use up all my perfect emeralds.

 

[Lorax_Pacific]

Did you read my posting at all? This weapon was made WITHOUT relic fragments or rare ingredients. It came from a Level 4 treasure map and was imbued afterwards.

Besides, I don't think it is desirable that only a handful of people know about an exploit, abuse it excessively, and rip off all other players by charging for an item 10 times more than it is worth.

I understood your post completely. I looked at the weapon and it is worth 500gp-5kgp on a vendor...unravel it.

I love your posts for pirates though.

-Lorax

 

[hawkeye_pike]

I understood your post completely. I looked at the weapon and it is worth 500gp-5kgp on a vendor...unravel it.

It is worth a lot to the repond hunting pirate who uses it.

 

[Shelleybean]

Well this is a bummer. I didn't stock up on relic frags as I didn't think they would change this. It is hard enough to get them and I was actually glad the price was starting to come down on vendors in town. I tried the method I mentioned above using valorite maces (crafted by a smith instead of a tinker) in hopes it was a change to the hammer tool. No go... same imbue that gave me 1 relic gave me 2 enchanted essence.

So how did the computation change? They must have adjusted either the value of valorite or something in the weighting equation Chrome explained above.

-OBSIDIAN-

I had no doubt that the tinkered hammer method would be nerfed. I have been surprised that the knight's cleaver method has not been removed. It's survived two, maybe three publishes.

 

[Obsidian]

I had no doubt that the tinkered hammer method would be nerfed. I have been surprised that the knight's cleaver method has not been removed. It's survived two, maybe three publishes.

I think that is because it requires runic hammers and ML special gems. It appears the devs are content with that method. They keep changing it to prevent methods that only uses normally crafted exceptional items with a special material and imbued further.

I want to know if they changed the equations to compute intensity, or did they add code to prevent imbued items from producing a relic at all.

-OBSIDIAN-

 

[Val-Tur]

I think that is because it requires runic hammers and ML special gems. It appears the devs are content with that method. They keep changing it to prevent methods that only uses normally crafted exceptional items with a special material and imbued further.

I want to know if they changed the equations to compute intensity, or did they add code to prevent imbued items from producing a relic at all.

-OBSIDIAN-

One of the problems with the continual nerfing of ways to obtain relic fragments until only high end hammers + ingrediants are left once again puts control of relics back into the hands of opportunistic price gougers whose only goal is simply greed. IMO at least half of the people crying about the price of relic fragments are doing so to protect the price of their own stockpile they were planning on making a mint on. I mean come on, some people are still trying to charge 75k for DC runic hammers that cannot be used to create relics. Once the current amount of relics leave the market, the price will most likely double if not triple. This will be the same old cycle that the UO development team has yet to grasp despite many years of watching it happen. Look at marties, ML crafting quests - both almost ruined by total over reaction of the development team.

The crafters on this board have been willing to share information with each other publically instead of hiding it all for themselves. That is what these boards have traditionally been used for - to help the community. But the developers see fit to use it as a way to fix thier own incompetence. People whose main goal is to take advantage of exploits do so privately or to a limited amount of people not share it on a public board. IMO the crafters board has done its job correctly by excitedly digging into something new to see what can and cannot be accomplished.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

I want to know if they changed the equations to compute intensity, or did they add code to prevent imbued items from producing a relic at all.

That's what I'm wondering, too. Today, I took a ring I looted from a level 6 treasure chest and imbued attributes to it until the intensity was 475. Unraveling it yielded 2 Enchanted Essence, but no Relic Fragment. You may be right about imbued items not yielding Relics anymore. Can anyone confirm?

 

[[JD]]

Be careful what you ask for because sometimes you get it.

The continual nerfing of relics is ridicilous given the amount of artifacts out there with the same or better properties.

When you weigh in the fact that the Gargoyle race can't wear the majority of said artifacts and must rely on imbuing to be "whole" and usable, the practice of nerfing relic creation is plain ********.

 

[Shelleybean]

That's what I'm wondering, too. Today, I took a ring I looted from a level 6 treasure chest and imbued attributes to it until the intensity was 475. Unraveling it yielded 2 Enchanted Essence, but no Relic Fragment. You may be right about imbued items not yielding Relics anymore. Can anyone confirm?

I think that imbued items won't yield relics anymore, but I don't know how to test it out. Imbued jewelry wouldn't yield a relic prior to the publish, according to the information in this thread:
http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=173345

 

[Lorax_Pacific]

I think that imbued items won't yield relics anymore...<snip>

That is not the change they coded, but it was a puzzle to figure out. This is the best part about Ultima series it has always been a puzzle to figure out the game with a long history of some cool puzzles. Thanks devs,

-Lorax

 

[Kallie Pigeon]

That is not the change they coded, but it was a puzzle to figure out. This is the best part about Ultima series it has always been a puzzle to figure out the game with a long history of some cool puzzles. Thanks devs,

-Lorax

Yes. It's all a lesson in economics. How to do this or that. Problems arise when we find ways to do things that weren't intended or if we find ways to do things that alter the way the game is supposed to work. I think for most of us the making of relic fragments is entirely about learning the rules to make them.

 

[Beastmaster]

This was a nerf brought on by a very vocal minority here on Stratics as usual.

There are 2 posters here that I now have an active vendetta against. Regardless of what they wish for in this game I vow to oppose it. This is total BS. Before this last publish I was wrongly convinced it was Draconi behind the nerf stick. Now I know we have another anti-crafting Dev on the team. And since they no longer talk to us we may never know whom it is, not that it would matter I guess.

I'm just sick to death of the damn people that come here begging for nerfs.

 

[Faux Pas]

I tried today to unravel for a relic fragment and it worked at my home in Trammel, with 119.2 imbuing skill. I unraveled 2 items, both level 11 artifacts. A green quarterstaff, and someone's crook 220 luck I believe. I got 1 lousy relic for each item.

 

[Shelleybean]

This was a nerf brought on by a very vocal minority here on Stratics as usual.

There are 2 posters here that I now have an active vendetta against. Regardless of what they wish for in this game I vow to oppose it. This is total BS. Before this last publish I was wrongly convinced it was Draconi behind the nerf stick. Now I know we have another anti-crafting Dev on the team. And since they no longer talk to us we may never know whom it is, not that it would matter I guess.

I'm just sick to death of the damn people that come here begging for nerfs.

The part that frustrates me the most is the lack of communication from the developers. Have you seen the commercial on tv where a guy gives the little girl a bicycle and tells her she can ride it, but she can't go outside a 2x2 foot square? That's how I feel about imbuing.

 

[Lorax_Pacific]

The part that frustrates me the most is the lack of communication from the developers. Have you seen the commercial on tv where a guy gives the little girl a bicycle and tells her she can ride it, but she can't go outside a 2x2 foot square? That's how I feel about imbuing.

With unraveling its a 2x2 square, but not marked. We have to find the markings.

-Lorax

 

[Kallie Pigeon]

They set up testing and what probably happens is everyone who wishes to exploit the system goes to testing so the can have a head start on exploiting and finding useful bugs (which they don't report). Others figure it out and complain and then changes are made. In the old days the game designers would tell us this is an exploit so don't do it well before fixing it so you can't do that. I am guessing that the imbuing thing is all about adjusting it to a level that is "reasonable". Because testing can't accomplish what they need to learn about imbuing they have to make adjustments. I just hope I am happy with the end product and sorry I missed out on the easy relic fragments.

 

[[JD]]

Yeah FYI it wasn't just imbued items they messed with.

Previously, using a gargoyle at my home forge if I accidentally forgot a 401 intensity item in a bag I was unraveling, the gump would inform me I didn't have the skill to unravel that item, and leave it alone. I'd throw it in my bag of "Relics to be", for me to unravel some day when I'm high enough and have access to the Queens forge.

Well that's changed.

Yesterday I was going through my loot and came across a 414 intensity item the RNG had given me from hunting. Cool. I unraveled the bag as usual and it ATE THE ITEM!! And gave me ESSENCE.

lmao.

I'll sort better now and take 401+ intensity out before I unravel...

That brings up a few questions though, like what else did they mess with. I believe you require 95.1 imbuing and queens forge access to unravel 401+ intensity to a Relic so that ends any testing I can do in this dept.

Also it isn't the 'Classic Client lovers' that is holding the EC back, it's the EC. It requres a much beefier computer, and not everyone has the money to upgrade. I have a nice computer myself, but a crappy video card, so the EC is actually quite laggy at times. Not only that there's missing functionality between what CC+UOAssist can do and what the EC can do.

The EC is coming, but they need to address performance and hardware requirements plus functionality before they can hope to make it mainstream. And I agree, that would be a good thing moving forward.

However, even then, it's software man - there will ALWAYS be bugs.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

Also it isn't the 'Classic Client lovers' that is holding the EC back, it's the EC. It requres a much beefier computer, and not everyone has the money to upgrade. I have a nice computer myself, but a crappy video card, so the EC is actually quite laggy at times. Not only that there's missing functionality between what CC+UOAssist can do and what the EC can do.

The EC is coming, but they need to address performance and hardware requirements plus functionality before they can hope to make it mainstream. And I agree, that would be a good thing moving forward.

This isn't exactly about imbuing, but:
You need a $40 graphics adapter to run the EC smoothly. I think everybody could afford that. No doubt, the EC still has a lot of bugs. Buy yes, you are right: The EC can do more than CC+UOAssist, without needing additional software.

 

[eekamouse]

This should be stickied!!

Thank you.

 

[aceheart1976]

the devs or who ever nerfed the hammer method are some real dumb dorks. it was a small gold sink to buy the gems needed to imbue to get the relics. and the economy in uo like it is, it needs all the gold sinks they can make lol