proposal for change in pvp fel/trammel

[yanaki2]

evey week i look at these boards and i see more and more devision between those who are into pvp aka "felucians" and those not interested, maining labeled "trammies"

i think we can all agree that the felucians would like to keep there playstyle and probably want more people to interact with. the days of gank squads are mostly over, there are still a few immature people but not many anymore.

tell me if i am wrong but i believe most of the "trammies" live in trammel and do most of there hunting ect. in trammel rulset arias mainly due to the fact that they do not want to pvp. again just as with the felucians they should be allowed to keep there playstyle.

so what i am proposing is a consentual pvp system. this could be a very good way of improving and bringing new life into the current faction system.

so how should this be done? i think the following changes should be inacted:

1. all lands should first recieve the trammel ruleset.(dont explode just yet)

2. allow anyone who wished to hit a toggle at say a shrine or one of the faction strongholds that will flag them "grey" as such they may partisipate in pvp. only greys and reds may pvp. reds will automatically be flagged for pvp.
make the flagging process last for a certain amount of hours in game before you can switch off of pvp, say 24 actual game hours. this is to prevent people to switch back and forth and "cheat" the system.

3. certain arias should not allow pvp such as towns (guard whack)
4. certain arias should be automatic pvp arias such as :

all felucian dungeons.
all champion spawns.
added specific locations say some of the new stigian abyss locals.

5. remove double resources from the game.they would no longer be needed.

as for the reds and greys, they should be allowed all of the content currently not available to them in the current rules set. they would be free to travel anywhere and except in certain instances can pvp anywhere, with another grey or red. leaving the people who do not wish to pvp to do there own buisness in peace.

as for the automatic pvp arias they should be ariass that if entered should automatically flag the person grey temporarily, say for up to one hour after leaving or if they die they automatically lose the grey status. this would again insure that there would be a limited abuse of the system by those less honorable players.

other changes that should go into effect that would in my humble opinion would be additions to this :

grey and reds should either not be allowed to ensure items or they should cost a large amount say tenfold of the current amount for insurance.
and secondly weapons and armor should automatically break at 0 durability like they used to.


lets have a discussion, if you like my idea let me know, if you dislike it let me know, but give me a reason why. its the only way we may ever come to a happy medium.

 

[Righteous]

evey week i look at these boards and i see more and more devision between those who are into pvp aka "felucians" and those not interested, maining labeled "trammies"

i think we can all agree that the felucians would like to keep there playstyle and probably want more people to interact with. the days of gank squads are mostly over, there are still a few immature people but not many anymore.

tell me if i am wrong but i believe most of the "trammies" live in trammel and do most of there hunting ect. in trammel rulset arias mainly due to the fact that they do not want to pvp. again just as with the felucians they should be allowed to keep there playstyle.

so what i am proposing is a consentual pvp system. this could be a very good way of improving and bringing new life into the current faction system.

so how should this be done? i think the following changes should be inacted:

1. all lands should first recieve the trammel ruleset.(dont explode just yet)

2. allow anyone who wished to hit a toggle at say a shrine or one of the faction strongholds that will flag them "grey" as such they may partisipate in pvp. only greys and reds may pvp. reds will automatically be flagged for pvp.
make the flagging process last for a certain amount of hours in game before you can switch off of pvp, say 24 actual game hours. this is to prevent people to switch back and forth and "cheat" the system.

3. certain arias should not allow pvp such as towns (guard whack)
4. certain arias should be automatic pvp arias such as :

all felucian dungeons.
all champion spawns.
added specific locations say some of the new stigian abyss locals.

5. remove double resources from the game.they would no longer be needed.

as for the reds and greys, they should be allowed all of the content currently not available to them in the current rules set. they would be free to travel anywhere and except in certain instances can pvp anywhere, with another grey or red. leaving the people who do not wish to pvp to do there own buisness in peace.

as for the automatic pvp arias they should be ariass that if entered should automatically flag the person grey temporarily, say for up to one hour after leaving or if they die they automatically lose the grey status. this would again insure that there would be a limited abuse of the system by those less honorable players.

other changes that should go into effect that would in my humble opinion would be additions to this :

grey and reds should either not be allowed to ensure items or they should cost a large amount say tenfold of the current amount for insurance.
and secondly weapons and armor should automatically break at 0 durability like they used to.


lets have a discussion, if you like my idea let me know, if you dislike it let me know, but give me a reason why. its the only way we may ever come to a happy medium.

We where thinking alike here. I just posted something similar.

Righteous

 

[drinkbeerallday]

evey week i look at these boards and i see more and more devision between those who are into pvp aka "felucians" and those not interested, maining labeled "trammies"

i think we can all agree that the felucians would like to keep there playstyle and probably want more people to interact with. the days of gank squads are mostly over, there are still a few immature people but not many anymore.

tell me if i am wrong but i believe most of the "trammies" live in trammel and do most of there hunting ect. in trammel rulset arias mainly due to the fact that they do not want to pvp. again just as with the felucians they should be allowed to keep there playstyle.

so what i am proposing is a consentual pvp system. this could be a very good way of improving and bringing new life into the current faction system.

so how should this be done? i think the following changes should be inacted:

1. all lands should first recieve the trammel ruleset

no.

since everyone is posting ideas i think removing the traditional dungeons from the Trammel areas would be a good start. there's no reason there's should be a copy of any dungeon.

(http://www.uoguide.com/Dungeons)

this would mean removing the following dungeons from Trammel:

Covetous, Deceit, Despise, Destard, Hythloth, Orc, Shame, Wind, Wrong, Tera Keep, the entire Lost Lands (t2a)

and removing the following dungeons from Felucca:

Blighted Grove, Painted Caves, Prism, Sanctuary

This would leave Trammel areas with a total of ~18 Dungeons and Felucca with ~14. total of 32

Contrast that with Trammel currently having ~31 and Felucca having ~18. total of 49

Also there would not be any copies of any dungeon anywhere in the game.

32 dungeons is probably still too many but at least it'd be 32 unique areas and we wouldn't be removing any content.

 

[Righteous]

no.

Man of few words.

Righteous

 

[Viper09]

Sure, but only in the trammel rule set facets. Fel is fine how it is.
Might wanna add the option for that.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Arias = Areas

 

[drinkbeerallday]

as for the automatic pvp arias

i think automatic pvp arias would be cool. maybe i'll replace my dungeon music with some mozart.

 

[Beefybone]

Trammies will never want to PVP. They will quit the game if the developers try to make them. There are not enough Feluccans to keep the game in business. Everytime I hear "Sure that's a great PVP system for TRAMMEL, haha! But remove all the dungeons so they gotta come to Fel!" all I hear is "Please shut the game down!"

 

[XavierArcanus]

What I love about this ill-conceived plan is that part about how reds would automatically be flagged for PvP. How on earth could someone even go red with this idea?

To people who keep advocating a PvP switch - what do you gain by essentially removing the Felucca ruleset?

 

[XavierArcanus]

Trammies will never want to PVP. They will quit the game if the developers try to make them. There are not enough Feluccans to keep the game in business. Everytime I hear "Sure that's a great PVP system for TRAMMEL, haha! But remove all the dungeons so they gotta come to Fel!" all I hear is "Please shut the game down!"

Sadly enough, I don't think there's even enough "trammies" to keep this game afloat either. I'm pretty sure we all need each other, and we need to quit bickering about each other's respective playgrounds.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

What I love about this ill-conceived plan is that part about how reds would automatically be flagged for PvP. How on earth could someone even go red with this idea?

ya that is funny. he probably figures if someone turns on their flag and dies that they should still be able to give a murder count. lol. it would be so dumb. every pvp'er would just give themselves 5 counts and they'd all fight each other right in the middle of popular spawn areas just to annoy the blues the blues would just never turn their flag on and page GM's constantly about people fighting near them and annoying them. this idea isn't very well thought out.

i think my idea about getting rid of copies of dungeons is at least plausible.

 

[yanaki2]

first off, im sorry i know i cant spell

What I love about this ill-conceived plan is that part about how reds would automatically be flagged for PvP. How on earth could someone even go red with this idea?

To people who keep advocating a PvP switch - what do you gain by essentially removing the Felucca ruleset?

good question. to answer this :

being flagged for pvp would just mean that you can participate in pvp, if you attack another player you are the agressor as you would be in the current rules should you attack a non red, i dont mean we should give up on murder counts and reds, reds should wear there status like a badge of honor.

as far as removeing the felucia ruleset. it would not be needed. everyone would be able to walk freeling wherever, and in contrast everyone who wants to pvp will get to do that wherever as well.

there was a mention of problems with dungeons. Right now there is a major difference in trammel and fel dungeons. first off you can no longer recall in fel dungeons, you can be attacked in fel dungeons which should stay. i do not agree that they should be deleted as one poster wrote but i would suggest having them changed up a bit. make them more individualised. and make them worth entering. right now unless your in a large party or doing champ spawns, or a lone theif stealthing for the dailies. you just dont go in them... its waisted space. this would be a chance to make them more enticing. this could again be a possible inclusion of the faction system that would make it more enticing.

the deal here is to make pvp enticing to those brave enough to try it without forcing it upon them. the challenge isnt dangling a carrot and seeing who bits, its dangling the carrot and getting the same person to bite on a regular basis.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

i do not agree that they should be deleted as one poster wrote but i would suggest having them changed up a bit

i didn't say anything about deleting fel dungeons. i suggested leaving the legacy/t2a dungeons in Felucca where they originated and allowing Trammel to be the area with all of the new Third Dawn/AOS/UOSE/UOML dungeons. that way there would be only one copy of each dungeon in the game.

then we could really look at each dungeon's theme more closely, maybe add some cool elements to each one. obviously hardest dungeons would be the Felucca ones. maybe stick some super boss down in Hythloth or Shame that is impossible to kill.

 

[Coppelia]

For Pete's sake, it's "I couldn't care less", not "I could care less".

Otherwise nice idea, but I voted "no" and I didn't read it.

 

[yanaki2]

ya that is funny. he probably figures if someone turns on their flag and dies that they should still be able to give a murder count. lol. it would be so dumb. every pvp'er would just give themselves 5 counts and they'd all fight each other right in the middle of popular spawn areas just to annoy the blues the blues would just never turn their flag on and page GM's constantly about people fighting near them and annoying them. this idea isn't very well thought out.

well if you instigate it you should get a murder count, thats how it works now i believe? and yes in that situation it could turn out that way.. but i think it would also grow old very quickly...most people who like to annoy other people tend to have a short attention span, thats just my opinion though.

if this idea isnt well thoughtout i can accept that, can you give me a idea how to make it better?

 

[drinkbeerallday]

For Pete's sake, it's "I couldn't care less", not "I could care less".

Otherwise nice idea, but I voted "no" and I didn't read it.

and commas and periods go inside quotes.

also http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/could_care_less

 

[drinkbeerallday]

Yanaki if you want a PvP flag system in Trammel that is fine by me. I would love to come to Trammel on my red and fool around.

Basically you are talking about eliminating IDOC PvP which is pretty much the only overland PvP going on besides Yew Gate House Hiding PvP, which would also be eliminated.

 

[yanaki2]

if they got rid of the trammel versions of the dungeons i wouldnt care that much, but lets face it , they wont do that, not with the poor excuse of trammel and felucia being paralell but nearly identical brittania's

 

[DHMagicMan_1]

Yanaki if you want a PvP flag system in Trammel that is fine by me. I would love to come to Trammel on my red and fool around.

Basically you are talking about eliminating IDOC PvP which is pretty much the only overland PvP going on besides Yew Gate House Hiding PvP, which would also be eliminated.

Why do you think Reds should be able to come to Tram with a PvP flag system but blues shouldn't have the same option in Fel? Explain the logical difference to me, other than "I want more kill targets".

 

[deadite]

and commas and periods go inside quotes.

also http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/could_care_less

Commas and periods going inside or outside quotes is a regional thing. Americans do it, British don't.

And you really shouldn't try to prove something by linking to a Wiki page.

 

[yanaki2]

lets face it, if we think that anything will change the way felucia is now, your wrong, the people who dont want to pvp will not come by, it doesnt matter how good the resources are, the chance some l33t dude (even if extreamly slim nowadays) puts too many people off. this is just as much of a tool to get more interest in pvp and player interaction as anything else.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

Why do you think Reds should be able to come to Tram with a PvP flag system but blues shouldn't have the same option in Fel? Explain the logical difference to me, other than "I want more kill targets".

I think the idea of a PvP switch in Trammel is a good idea in general. I don't care if reds can goto Tram or not. It's probably better that they can't anyway. It's not like if you are red you aren't allowed to have other characters that are blue.

Also blues can and do go to Fel anytime they want. Not sure what you're point is.

 

[DHMagicMan_1]

The point of this thread is adding a "PvP Switch" and you said above... good for Tram... not for Fel... meaning there should be a switch so people should be able to PvP in Tram if they want to but they should not be able to opt out in Fel...

I can go to Fel... but I can't opt out of PvP. I don't like that.

I agree with the OP that the switch would be good.

What part of the thread confused you?

 

[XavierArcanus]

lets face it, if we think that anything will change the way felucia is now, your wrong, the people who dont want to pvp will not come by, it doesnt matter how good the resources are, the chance some l33t dude (even if extreamly slim nowadays) puts too many people off. this is just as much of a tool to get more interest in pvp and player interaction as anything else.

If that's true, then why the multitude of posts asking for Trammel rules in Felucca, or the double resources and powerscrolls to be put in to Trammel facets?

 

[T_Amon_from_work]

A "PvP switch" idea like this was a hotly debated proposal for what is now Tram ... way before Tram became a facet. I was soundly declared as not workable then and I think it's still not necessary now. You want PvP abilities, Felucca facet on prodo shards, or Siege/Mugen.

 

[yanaki2]

sure it was debated. but the reasoning about tramel and fullucia at the time was based upon the assumption that enough people wanted to remain in a environment where you could pvp still. and history has shown us that is clearly not the case. as it sits every year less and less people are doing it, and now you have and entire facet where no one but a small fraction of the population would go. lets face it, the dev team back there was very wrong and anyone there today who is misguided enough to think that its viable now are just deluding themselves. i do not believe that trammel should get powerscrolls if that happens in a matter of months the value of them will be reduced to nothing, that and the few people who visit felucia currently would be reduced even further. right now felucia is a podunk housing tract for trammel.

its easy to say how wrong it is or if it wouldnt work but except for a few i dont see anyone coming up with reasons why, or how it can change or what we can be done to change it. come on guys its not that difficult is it?

A "PvP switch" idea like this was a hotly debated proposal for what is now Tram ... way before Tram became a facet. I was soundly declared as not workable then and I think it's still not necessary now. You want PvP abilities, Felucca facet on prodo shards, or Siege/Mugen.

the idea is not to just allow pvp in trammel but to allow there to be a true blending for both facets. or is it fine the way it is?

 

[weins201]

Let me explain how this works

Go to a moongate - hum pounder weather or not i want to fightsomeone or have a chance at getting killed by another player.

I decide Yes click the Fel button - Choose destination

Go thru


Walk out of the guard zone


WALA you have turned on your PvP switch

Now lets say i dont want to fight or have the chance at getting killed by another player well

Stay in Tram, Go to Ish or Malas

Ah i can even go to Fel and sit in guard zones. While in guard zones i can attack a Red or Grey and take the chance at Dieng.



Basically want to PvP go to fel and wander around, that was what it was designed for.

:loser:

 

[Beldon]

To people who keep advocating a PvP switch - what do you gain by essentially removing the Felucca ruleset?

Power Scrolls. I thought that would be obvious.

 

[Ailish]

i think automatic pvp arias would be cool. maybe i'll replace my dungeon music with some mozart.

*wipes tears off face* OMG you made me LOL so hard! I want the song "Light Cavalry" to play when I attack someone! and maybe "Peter and the Wolf" if someone attacks me!

 

[Ailish]

Now, what I don't understand is this. A person who plays primarily in Tram comes here and says "Lets do this to Fel, so that I will like it better, and it conforms to MY playstyle"; then they get bent out of shape when someone who plays primarily in Fel says "Lets do this to Tram, so that it will like it better, and it conforms to MY playstyle" and they do not see the hypocrisy there ....

People who live and play in Fel LIKE it how it is. They are not asking to be able to play that way in Tram (tho that would be sooooo cool ... I wanna fight in Luna and Doom, I am still not gonna ask for it).

Yet people who live and play in Tram are CONSTANTLY asking to change Fel ...

 

[Harb]

The real problem Yanaki is that dev must consider and enable people to play as each enjoys playing. And there are a lot of different opinions regarding what people enjoy. The two different rulesets attempt to allow for this, and for the most part succeed in doing so. Notable exceptions are that powerscrolls are not attainable without PvP, and are integral to successful play at higher levels. Then there are some who personally enjoy the displeasure of others, limiting Felucca from what it can be and spreading ire within and out of the game. But it all comes back to PvP, and an individuals view of what it should be and whether or not it should be forced on themselves or others. Zoning areas of play, such as champion spawns, do restrict play. Limiting PSs to Fel, does restrict play. And who knows what our current team is envisioning for SA. A PvP "toggle" might work, but most would have it enabled everywhere, usless you went back to zoning, which again, denies choice and enjoyment to many. So it becomes a circular argument. I like the idea of additional benefits in Fel, but loathe the idea that scrolls can't drop at a reduced rate in Ilsh, a Tram ruleset. The "flavor" of maintaining a "red" character does't really work for me in Tram, or for that matter SA lands if access is allowed into key aspects of the expansion. But again, it's all just opinion, and the main thing dev has to retain a keen eye upon is empowering players to enjoy and succeed, in every aspect of play each finds entertaining. And for those who embrace displeasure for others, well.....

 

[Clog|Mordain]

Care to turn the game into WoW anymore? Doing so would kill the game IMHO. We already run off a item based, adding this to the game doom it hell..

EDIT: And this isnt from a trammy point of view, I spend 99.9% of my time in fel, only travelling to luna sell my powerscrolls and repair etc.

 

[Shanna]

the days of gank squads are mostly over, there are still a few immature people but not many anymore.

Omg! What shard do you play in? Hahahaha

this would mean removing the following dungeons from Trammel:

Covetous, Deceit, Despise, Destard, Hythloth, Orc, Shame, Wind, Wrong, Tera Keep, the entire Lost Lands (t2a)

Wow, you probably never helped a newbie person in this game. Those dungeons help newbies learn how to use their characters and raise skills. Removing them would give people nothing give them very little to hunt.

Also there would not be any copies of any dungeon anywhere in the game.

Do you even know Sosaria's storyline?

 

[Zoran]

Let me explain how this works

Go to a moongate - hum pounder weather or not i want to fightsomeone or have a chance at getting killed by another player.

I decide Yes click the Fel button - Choose destination

Go thru


Walk out of the guard zone


WALA you have turned on your PvP switch

Now lets say i dont want to fight or have the chance at getting killed by another player well

Stay in Tram, Go to Ish or Malas

Ah i can even go to Fel and sit in guard zones. While in guard zones i can attack a Red or Grey and take the chance at Dieng.



Basically want to PvP go to fel and wander around, that was what it was designed for.

:loser:

YES!!! YES!!!!!!
Thank you!!!!
I was just about to post something DAMN simular due to what I read above-
Then I came to your post.
Felucians? What the hell? Does EVERYONE not know that Fel players all have Blues with which to conduct business? No joke- its not a myth.

Fel players like Fel the way it is. People say there should be draws to both the PvP side and the non-PvP side. Again- THERE IS!
There are many Items such as Grizzled Bones or Eye of Travesty or DREADHORN MANE (without which the scrappers compendium does not exist!)that ONLY skilled PVM'ers can go get.
For PvP'ers- can we say powerscrolls?
Both sides het their respective items- and hence the trade commences..

-The interaction is there..
-As Weins said; the choice is there (since you can only PvP if you CHOOSE to go to Fel)..
-The diversity is there (you MUST go to Fel to PvP or gain Powerscrolls- You MUST go to trammel to get certain peerless items)
-The rules are there; You attack a blue: you go grey. Kill enough Blues: you go Red.

What is the big issue that needs to be changed??
~Zoran

 

[Zoran]

Care to turn the game into WoW anymore? Doing so would kill the game IMHO. We already run off a item based, adding this to the game doom it hell..

EDIT: And this isnt from a trammy point of view, I spend 99.9% of my time in fel, only travelling to luna sell my powerscrolls and repair etc.

Again- WONDERFUL POINTS!
Do we play Ultima for the STATE OF THE ART graphics and interface?
Or because we like the CURRENT ruleset?

And again- from a FEL point of view, as you can see Clog doesnt WANT to go do trammy things or change the rules. And does ANYBODY think a red travels to Luna to sell powerscrolls? No. This person too has a blue to conduct business. Things need not change for the sake of Fel players.

If you wanna go back to Trammel? Make a blue.
~Zoran

 

[drinkbeerallday]

Commas and periods going inside or outside quotes is a regional thing. Americans do it, British don't.

And you really shouldn't try to prove something by linking to a Wiki page.

why not?