Next expansion (after SA): PIRATE EXPANSION

[hawkeye_pike]

It has been asked for since many years, and even been approved by the devs as something they'd like to see in UO: An expansion with the following features:

- Enhancement of the water world in UO (places of interest, interesting things you can do on a boat).
- Boats with more functionality, and boats that actually work better.
- Underwater dungeons.
- Sea battles, working cannons and other PvP/PvM stuff.
- New sea monsters.

Would you like to see that as the expansion after SA?

P.S.: The reason why the Devs didn't really follow up on this suggestion seems to be, that the ship code is extremely messed up and it would be very time-consuming to reprogram ships.

 

[Leto]

P.S.: The reason why the Devs didn't really follow up on this suggestion seems to be, that the ship code is extremely messed up and it would be very time-consuming to reprogram ships.

I was going to say just that and honestly, I wouldn't want the current dev-team to mess around with legacy-code too much before they learn the difference between a fix and a hack.

 

[phantus]

At this point it could be a rainbow bright expansion and I'd be happy to get something aside from crap. Starving people will eat anything...

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

You are making a huge assumption, that SA will ever be released...la

 

[UltimaSword]

I'd love a pirate expansion. Hell a big pirate ship could be a dungeon with the captain as the boss. They could add more pirate gear and stuff. Better loot in sunken chests including new sea based arties (more). Customizable ships LOL

 

[Chad Sexington]

I've brought up the pirate expansion a couple times. Aside from the things you already listed:

1. Swashbuckling skill. Don't know exactly what it'll do, but I do know that its modifier (eval, tactics, karma, arcane focus) should be how drunk you are. Without changing too much, this already makes it more difficult for mages to use this skill because of the *hics* and fizzles. (Much like chivalry versus neg karma actions like necro, poisoning, stealing and murdering, this limitation will be hard to work around, but would still be possible... Instead of a hard coded rule that prevents skills to be used (ever) on the same template.)

2. Gambling. Never fail gold sink. (Yes, I know there are problems with this one.)

3. Fishing updated.

 

[a slave girl]

It has been asked for since many years, and even been approved by the devs as something they'd like to see in UO: An expansion with the following features:

- Enhancement of the water world in UO (places of interest, interesting things you can do on a boat).
- Boats with more functionality, and boats that actually work better.
- Underwater dungeons.
- Sea battles, working cannons and other PvP/PvM stuff.
- New sea monsters.

Would you like to see that as the expansion after SA?

P.S.: The reason why the Devs didn't really follow up on this suggestion seems to be, that the ship code is extremely messed up and it would be very time-consuming to reprogram ships.

Don't forget pirate outfits and at least one pirate with Johnny Depp's face.




There was an artist's drawings of new ships, pirate clothing etc., posted somewhere here at Stratics at one time.

I don't recall the artist's name or the name of the thread it was in but the artwork was well thought out and looked great, especially the ships and clothing.

Why not forget SA for now?

Give Us a Nice Box on Store Shelves that SCREAMS uo:!PIRATES! using that artist's artwork (if they haven't been hired by the competition already) as soon as possible, like in time for Christmas this year.

Seems that most people will at least look at any game labeled "!PIRATES!", and at Christmas time people are willing to buy things that they normally wouldn't just to fill out their shopping lists.

At Christmas time kids get two weeks out of school. Lots of free time to actually play UO and fall in love with it.

While current UO players are distracted with the new PIRATES expansion (and hopefully new players are just learning about UO), the dev team could continue to work on KR and SA.

 

[galefan2004]

Go play Pirates of the Caribean.

Chances are we won't even see SA before we see that nice little notice saying we have 30 days until the servers go down, so I'm not going to speculate what should come after that until it at least comes. It doesn't take 3 years to put out an expansion, so if an expansion seems to be taking three years it means its probably never coming.

 

[Smokey of LS]

at this point i think damn near everyone playing would be happy with ANY exspansion and to be thinking of another one ahead of that is just ridiculously funny, seeing theyve BS'd us about SA for 2-3 YEARS now and still dont have it or here anything about it. def. good thoughts, but will it ever happen.... maybe 10 more years from now.

 

[Violence]

What race can you tie to the seas? UO needs more variety in that area.
After Gargoyles we need Orks. Shaman, Ritual magic. Brutal melee stuff.
Junk-made armour and weapons!

Or maybe we need Juka and Meer becoming fully playable. Cyber fantasy stuff. Funky magic full of weird sounds and lights. Power swords! Tech!

Anything is better *AT THE MOMENT* than wet stuff. No pun intended.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

Go play Pirates of the Caribean.

Chances are we won't even see SA before we see that nice little notice saying we have 30 days until the servers go down, so I'm not going to speculate what should come after that until it at least comes. It doesn't take 3 years to put out an expansion, so if an expansion seems to be taking three years it means its probably never coming.

Heh, with that attitude I wonder why you are bothering to post here anyways. If I'd think the way you do, I would have cancelled my subscription long ago and done something useful.

P.S: I really believe that Stygian Abyss will be released this autumn.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

Hawky, god willing we will get this. and i think its overly obvious that stygian abyss will be released.

The boat code is hard, they stated that at townhall jacksonville. and i belive it. imo 2d programming is harder than 3d be default, and i couldnt imagine codeing a boat simply moving, transporting all the tiles to the right spots and players and not making a crash. but i think the best possibility would be customizable boats.

id like to see lots more overwater spawn. i can sail for miles and not even see a dolphin. and youll never see a krakken....boreing. the ocean needs to simulate tossing special nets every now and then.

also a maelstrom type scenario that takes you to malas or underocean caves could be cool.


and yeah, pirates for the win.

 

[RenaLynne]

It has been asked for since many years, and even been approved by the devs as something they'd like to see in UO: An expansion with the following features:

- Enhancement of the water world in UO (places of interest, interesting things you can do on a boat).
- Boats with more functionality, and boats that actually work better.
- Underwater dungeons.
- Sea battles, working cannons and other PvP/PvM stuff.
- New sea monsters.

Would you like to see that as the expansion after SA?

P.S.: The reason why the Devs didn't really follow up on this suggestion seems to be, that the ship code is extremely messed up and it would be very time-consuming to reprogram ships.

Yes to all.

 

[Shoshanna]

Expansion?

This game feels empty, kind of like a ghost town.

If anything, there should probably be a contraction.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

Expansion?

This game feels empty, kind of like a ghost town.

If anything, there should probably be a contraction.

A contraction won't change the fact that no new players are joining. To my opinion, that should be the first thing to work at: Making the game attractive to new players. An expansion like the one I mentioned would help, but it wouldn't be enough.

 

[Norrar]

need...cannons...ships need sinking... (especially all the ones in LB's castle moat!)

 

[AesSedai]

Step 1: Gamebryo has to take over first.
Step 2: Ocean expansion becomes possible in UO.
Step 3: No yo-ho pirate's life in UO possible, until step 1 has been achieved...

 

[Sunrise]

Nice. Custom Ships. Cannons on Ships. New Oceans... Bigger fish...better rum.

Im all for It!!

 

[Jaimes]

I feel like the difficulty the Devs currently have in modifying old code and graphics (or, reproducing them) stems from the fact that people have forgotten to code and design the way things were coded and designed during UO's creation. Look at the 2D graphics for instance -- current renditions (like elf armor and weapons) are ugly compared to the beautifully detailed old-style weapons and armor. I definitely don't think it's a problem of difficulty, but rather that the techniques have been lost with time...

That being said, and despite the inherent difficulty involved, I would love to see a ship/sea expansion. UO boats could be so much more. The sea is an underdeveloped part of the world!

 

[Violence]

The technique's lost in time?... Ehh.. Sure. Like the most secret Ninja techniques in movies?

What's lost in time is TALENT for the art department. The last few remaining people in the art dept. are busy with KR. This alone speaks volumes if you consider the quality in KR. Which is totally lacking but better than 2D... And THAT speaks volumes as well.

Now assuming SA hasn't been cancelled, divide those artists in two(if you can slice a single individual in two and still have them design game stuff).. And that's your art dept. staff for Ultima.

 

[Eslake]

Step 1: Gamebryo has to take over first.
Step 2: Ocean expansion becomes possible in UO.
Step 3: No yo-ho pirate's life in UO possible, until step 1 has been achieved...

I would love to see them bring the Gamebryo engine into UO. I've worked with it in the past (not the new one though) and it is easy to use/learn, and very adaptable. I think they're using the new GB engine in Warhammer, but I'm not certain.
(Gamebryo doesn't "take over" tho, it isn't an entity but a middleware package licenced from Emergent Games)

Their continued adherance to the existing server code is choking the game. They can add a new monster here or there, and with a lot of work add entire new systems. But large changes to interraction or game mechanics are passed off as unfeasable because they see it as too much work.

For less resources and time than they put into either UOTD or KR they could have completely rebuilt the game using GB or a similar engine and finally eliminated all of the limitations of the 2D environment as well as their 'claimed' difficulty in fixing or changing certain aspects of the 'old code.'
And we could still have the game look and play exactly as it does now (if they chose to allow it).

Besides which, if they ARE using GB for Warhammer, they will get a hefty discount on a 2nd license for UO. Not to mention any other games they might be planning to us it in.

 

[Hemisphere]

I'm a little out of the loop, so could somebody please fill me in on exactly why Stygian Abyss has become something that people "doubt will be released".

Is their any evidence to support this notion? (all I notice is that the Stygian Abyss forum on Stratics has disappeared - I can't find any dev comments or any mention of SA at all on Stratics actually)

 

[deadite]

Hemi, I think people are just smelling vaporware. Because Darkscribe hyped up SA well before they knew what a bomb KR was going to turn out to be. I think that really threw a wrench into SA.

But there is no proof either way. The only folks that know anything about SA is Mythic Entertainment, and they aren't talking anymore.

After dropping hints about this weekend's town hall, I certainly hope they actually have *something* to say about UO other than what the next phase of the event is...

 

[Shelleybean]

Where's Admiral Ruffie these days? He's been lobbying for a sea themed expansion for years now. I would love to see a pirate expansion. I really like your idea of underwater dungeons too.

 

[Harb]

I doubt anyone (well, legitimately anyone) would argue with your intent. There's a lot of room for expansion, creativity, and involvement on/ above/ "below" our high seas. It would be something everyone could enjoy. Personally I'd prefer to see a more gradual build than a "here it all is" expansion. Dev could actually get a few years worth of solid publish additions making our seas more enjoyable, and would not have to redirect so many resources toward it. Good thoughts in the thread already!

 

[Hemisphere]

Where's Admiral Ruffie these days? He's been lobbying for a sea themed expansion for years now. I would love to see a pirate expansion. I really like your idea of underwater dungeons too.

He gave up.

 

[AesSedai]

Eslake, ya' know that KR uses the Gamebryo engine?

About Pirate Expansions:
I think it was the Town Hall in Altanta last year where they were asked about the Pirate theme (or maybe it was discussed in Japan? last year).
Iirc correctly, the answer was that they actually spent some time trying to develop an expansion around that theme but it turned out to be too difficult to implement into the legacy client. Ships in UO were a great addition back in the day but the way they were implemented makes it quite difficult to upgrade them without an entire oceanic overhaul aka a nightmare (& that's just talking about the ships).
That's why I suggested we would have to wait awhile (like when/if Gamebryo becomes the primary engine, and Wombat is retired, and the server code can be significantly altered/updated) for it to happen in UO.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

To my opinion, if EA wants UO to survive mid-term (and concerning its content I think it has the potential to be the best MMORPG on the market), they'd have to develop a whole new graphics engine (and probably game engine) and reengineer the old code. Of course, that would cost a lot of money and development time. However, imagining what this game COULD BE with modern code and graphics like Diablo 3 (I know that a lot of old-times love the old graphics, but with legacy art NO new player will come to UO and UO will slowly die): It is THE ONLY WAY to go, if EA wants UO to survive. Expansions are nice, but they alone won't bring new players to this game.

Conclusion:
I bet any amount of money that either EA reengineers this game and gives it better graphics (and I don't mean crap like KR), or this game will be dead within the next 3 years.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Gotta agree with AesSedai.

A Pirate/sea adventure expansion would require the elimination of the legacy client to allow the Gamebryo/KR client to utilize better mechanics with the server for sea-base content.

 

[Dermott of LS]

I would love to see them bring the Gamebryo engine into UO. I've worked with it in the past (not the new one though) and it is easy to use/learn, and very adaptable. I think they're using the new GB engine in Warhammer, but I'm not certain.
(Gamebryo doesn't "take over" tho, it isn't an entity but a middleware package licenced from Emergent Games)

Their continued adherance to the existing server code is choking the game. They can add a new monster here or there, and with a lot of work add entire new systems. But large changes to interraction or game mechanics are passed off as unfeasable because they see it as too much work.

For less resources and time than they put into either UOTD or KR they could have completely rebuilt the game using GB or a similar engine and finally eliminated all of the limitations of the 2D environment as well as their 'claimed' difficulty in fixing or changing certain aspects of the 'old code.'
And we could still have the game look and play exactly as it does now (if they chose to allow it).

Besides which, if they ARE using GB for Warhammer, they will get a hefty discount on a 2nd license for UO. Not to mention any other games they might be planning to us it in.

...

Kingdom Reborn IS done in Gamebryo, just FYI.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

...

Kingdom Reborn IS done in Gamebryo, just FYI.

Maybe, but it looks not very professional and it has too many bugs and glitches. (I still find it better than the legacy client, from an optical point of view. But I don't use it as its handling is worse, which results an a disadvantage in PvP and PvM.)

P.S.: Did you notice that KR is missing in the list of references on the Gamebryo website?

 

[Katlene]

Pirates would be awesome, after that we can have an aussie one!! dangly cork hats, stubbie shorts, singlets & thongs, eskies as a new container and bbqs to replace ovens. boomerangs, croc dundee knives, and boondi sticks as weapons *squee* OMG and drop bears as a new formidable monster!! and have emus as new mounts and roo's as a tameable.

 

[Eslake]

Eslake, ya' know that KR uses the Gamebryo engine?

Please tell me you're joking.
If it's true... it is like buying a porsche just to put it in a demolition derby.
Look at Oblivion - that is a good example of what they Could do with GB (tho the trees are SpeedTree work)

they'd have to develop a whole new graphics engine (and probably game engine) and reengineer the old code. Of course, that would cost a lot of money and development time.

They wouldn't make new engines either way, they would just use a middleware package.

The "old" server code is not nearly as bad as they let on. And using the original as a template a single programmer could write a complete replacement in a couple of months.

Reconstructing UO would not be a multi-million dollar investment. Even if they didn't already have licenses which will result in discounted further licenses.. That with the programming time put into the new server, and a completely new client, assuming they pay the staff the average (which they don't) for their fields, and contract modelers (while they have in-house employees already)..
I would put it at something around $310-330k to completely remake UO using modern technology and full 3D artwork on a par with WoW.
(not that it would have to look anything like WoW, just that it would have the capacity to look as good)

To an individual that may sound like a lot of money, but to EA it is a drop of water in a barrel. (bucket analogy would be too small )
Presently they are probably making $3-5m / year on UO. Updating it to actually compete with current games (and have a shelf-presence) would easily tripple that in the first year.

I like the 2D client myself, and hesistate to see it change. But the attricion is indisputable, and will soon put EA in a position to decide whether they terminate the game, begin closing shards, or make the game competative enough to become viable again. And that means 3D.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

You seem to know pretty much about the UO code base. I only know that it was scripted with Lua, and that developers say that the code is an extreme mess so changing even simplest things becomes a multi-day project. I also know that middleware is used in most games nowadays (just look at the reference list of Gamebryo).

Do you know why EA isn't really taking matters into their hands and making something cool out of UO? I really tried a lot of MMORPGs out there, and apart from the bugs and the childish graphics, UO really is the best game, to my opinion. It just lacks new players, and thus the communities are slowly dying.

 

[Tek]

Well considering it will be 3 years this Saturday that Mondain’s Legacy was released and no sign of Stygian Abyss in sight I guess that means the Pirate Expansion should be out around 2015?

 

[Eslake]

Do you know why EA isn't really taking matters into their hands and making something cool out of UO? I really tried a lot of MMORPGs out there, and apart from the bugs and the childish graphics, UO really is the best game, to my opinion. It just lacks new players, and thus the communities are slowly dying.

I had typed out a very long reply, but since it is off topic, I'll sumarize.

When online games were born, the money men wanted projections for future earnings, but because there had never been such games, they were basically given information that applied to Single Player games. Unfortunately that led to an estimate of 3 year life cycles for such games.

If you have ever worked in a field where the money behind a project is supplied by people who have no knowledge of the work itself, you know how hesitant they are to accepting any sort of risk. EA was no different.

So the big wigs at EA don't put more funding into improving UO, since they expect it to just die at any given moment, having already outlived its expected time.

But the fact that someone was able to squeeze enough out of them to licence GB for KR is grounds for hope. If they are willing to accept that the game is still viable, they may be willing to invest what it takes to make the game competative again.


I know a lot don't like the idea of changing the client, but that will have to happen eventually. The sooner it happens the sooner we can start giving them feedback on what we like and dislike about it.
Not to mention the sooner they move to a real client the sooner they can start Marketting the game again.


After all, which would you buy if they were both on the shelf next to each other?

or

(the first one is a Gamebryo pic, and a Very Poor one at that)